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Subject: "has Tribe apologized for 'Georgie Porgie'?" This topic is locked.
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SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 07:28 AM

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"has Tribe apologized for 'Georgie Porgie'?"


  

          

Over in the Lesson they don't know. Do you?

When I google I only see this: https://m.reddit.com/r/hiphopheads/comments/396haf/did_tribe_called_quest_or_brand_nubian_ever/

So I'm not the only person curious.

In case you don't know about GP. It's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyKcZb5LufE

http://cypheravenue.com/a-tribe-called-homophobic-the-most-anti-gay-rap-song-ever-ever/

Did they issue an actual apology?

fuck you.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I bet it was slated to come on before Vibes and Stuff
Aug 24th 2016
1
it became 'Show Business'.
Aug 24th 2016
2
      Damn, you are spot on! I'll back that theory indeed....
Aug 24th 2016
3
           k.
Aug 24th 2016
8
           Welcome back SoWhat!! :)
Aug 24th 2016
16
           smh...
Aug 24th 2016
13
Apologize for a 25 yr old song that was never released? Why?
Aug 24th 2016
4
exactly, there is no need to
Aug 24th 2016
5
k.
Aug 24th 2016
7
^^^
Aug 24th 2016
9
proof that it was solely the record label's choice to block the song?
Aug 24th 2016
19
      Do you have a link that's not Wikipedia tho? lol
Aug 24th 2016
24
      Anyone could have edited that, did someone from Jive say it?
Aug 24th 2016
25
           Lol y'all wild
Aug 24th 2016
27
                NO seriously, I'm not going to take the words of some guy who
Aug 24th 2016
30
have you apologized for bullshit you did 15 or 20 years ago?
Aug 24th 2016
6
...
Aug 24th 2016
17
      who cares, it was 25 years ago and its rap
Aug 24th 2016
20
You want an apology hit up Ali or Jarobi on Twitter
Aug 24th 2016
10
good idea.
Aug 24th 2016
12
      RE: good idea.
Aug 24th 2016
14
           That's what's up
Aug 24th 2016
15
LOL you insufferable loser.
Aug 24th 2016
11
this my first time ever hearing it. i wonder who came up with the idea
Aug 24th 2016
18
prolly all of them
Aug 24th 2016
22
RE: this my first time ever hearing it. i wonder who came up with the id...
Aug 24th 2016
26
      i can DEFINITELY see Lord Jamar hating gays enough to dedicate
Aug 24th 2016
28
           RE: i can DEFINITELY see Lord Jamar hating gays enough to dedicate
Aug 24th 2016
29
           RE: i can DEFINITELY see Lord Jamar hating gays enough to dedicate
Aug 24th 2016
31
THIS GENERATION. TROLLS DI NATION
Aug 24th 2016
21
muhfukkas gonna boycott Tribe and stomp on Phifes grave
Aug 24th 2016
23
It'd be a good interview question to ask him about. I feel like alot of...
Aug 24th 2016
32
I honestly don't see how this shit is remotely surprising
Aug 24th 2016
33
      the atmosphere back then explanation is has always been bs..come on now
Aug 24th 2016
34
      BS in what sense?
Aug 24th 2016
52
      RE: BS in what sense?
Aug 24th 2016
74
           Good god that's thick.
Aug 24th 2016
78
           just like my dick
Aug 24th 2016
83
                apologize.. OMG, that was hoooorrible
Aug 24th 2016
86
                Cool joke bro.
Aug 24th 2016
87
                     RE: Cool joke bro.
Aug 24th 2016
94
                          Another flawless human !
Aug 24th 2016
97
                               Im not flawless but I would never do something heinous like that
Aug 24th 2016
101
                                    lmao, they recorded a song, they didnt razorblade gays in the village
Aug 24th 2016
115
                                    http://www.iccs.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/high-horse-pic.jpg
Aug 24th 2016
118
                                         at least he admitted he wasnt flawless
Aug 24th 2016
121
                                         Right.
Aug 24th 2016
124
                                         that really necessary? come on..not excusing homophobia isnt hi horsing
Aug 24th 2016
133
                                              But pretending like the mistakes your made are somehow ...
Aug 24th 2016
136
                                                   ah, I see I could be accused of that with how I explained.
Aug 24th 2016
143
           you sound utterly ridiculous
Aug 24th 2016
103
                I know it seems that way but how else can I explain it?
Aug 24th 2016
105
      lmao... I keep forgetting OKP's never whined as kids.
Aug 24th 2016
62
      not to mention his login celebrates Miles Davis
Aug 24th 2016
35
      It's surprising
Aug 25th 2016
208
People grow up
Aug 24th 2016
36
Man some folks are on a mission. Not trying to hear about change/growth
Aug 24th 2016
42
No they're not. Why should they?
Aug 24th 2016
37
I think ya'll are too quick to brush this off. If a white singer
Aug 24th 2016
38
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Chd8VzL2soY
Aug 24th 2016
39
HahA..at first I was kinda nodding my head to it....then he went left..
Aug 24th 2016
144
They should apologize when every rapper apologizes for say Nigga
Aug 24th 2016
40
They should apologize when every rapper apologizes for say Nigga
Aug 24th 2016
44
What? Did you miss out on the point?
Aug 24th 2016
46
      RE: What? Did you miss out on the point?
Aug 24th 2016
50
           FYI, I can't see any of those Pics or Gifs at work.
Aug 24th 2016
53
           RE: FYI, I can't see any of those Pics or Gifs at work.
Aug 24th 2016
57
                You're not listening. They got i LOCKED here like a mug.
Aug 24th 2016
75
                     he posted an orangutan mock smiling a woman reporter
Aug 24th 2016
85
                          You funny
Aug 24th 2016
91
                               check it when u get home..thats what the actual gif is
Aug 24th 2016
96
           ROTFL
Aug 25th 2016
216
stop
Aug 24th 2016
149
Not an apples to apples comparison.
Aug 24th 2016
41
Okay, what is different about the two examples?
Aug 24th 2016
196
      I really have to spell it out for you ?
Aug 25th 2016
209
           So we agree...
Aug 25th 2016
214
                No, we kinda don't.
Aug 25th 2016
217
                     I never said anything about the timing of a hypothetical racist
Aug 25th 2016
218
                          Wait, but you actually did...
Aug 25th 2016
220
                               We good - I agree with all of this.
Aug 25th 2016
221
see also: Eminem.
Aug 24th 2016
      ^ btw, Eminem APOLOGIZED for the slurs even though the song
Aug 24th 2016
69
           He felt the need to assimilate and be accepted in the cultur of rap
Aug 24th 2016
84
smh at all the "people grow up / they was just kids" excuses
Aug 24th 2016
43
It's not an excuse. Kids do kid stuff and grow up
Aug 24th 2016
45
      In what world are 21 year-olds "kids" ?
Aug 24th 2016
48
           You didn't do any stupid shit when you were 20/21 ?
Aug 24th 2016
49
           No, He was born of a virgin
Aug 24th 2016
55
           I didn't leave a permanent record of stupid shit I did
Aug 24th 2016
56
           Well what an incredible person you are.
Aug 24th 2016
58
                Yup, we're all proud.
Aug 24th 2016
61
                     k.
Aug 24th 2016
64
           The fuck do *I* have to do with this?
Aug 24th 2016
63
                Wait, did you just dual-reply to my post ...
Aug 24th 2016
66
                     Wasn't a joke, it's a real question, but I already know. nvrmnd.
Aug 24th 2016
68
                          It was a bad joke man.
Aug 24th 2016
70
           You're kidding? No wait how old are you?
Aug 24th 2016
54
           Legally and physically, 21-year-olds are ADULTS, not kids
Aug 24th 2016
59
                Yeah, you don't know nada
Aug 24th 2016
77
           21 year olds rapping? cmon son
Aug 24th 2016
60
                You can't rationalize with him about this
Aug 24th 2016
79
                     lol, all you dudes have done is make snarky comments
Aug 24th 2016
82
                          What logic.
Aug 24th 2016
88
                          hindsite is 20/20
Aug 24th 2016
90
                          You will be your own king one day
Aug 24th 2016
93
It's people in hear that give R Kelly a pass and he's still dating kids
Aug 24th 2016
47
Maax dont count
Aug 24th 2016
51
This is some telling shit going on in here
Aug 24th 2016
65
not 25 years later
Aug 24th 2016
67
Limp-wristed handshakes and eye contact avoiding all up in here
Aug 24th 2016
72
      You keep throwing out some real passive aggressive thoughts bro.
Aug 24th 2016
81
Post over in OkayTechnology too
Aug 24th 2016
71
and OkayArtist.
Aug 24th 2016
73
if the Beastie Boys could apologize for their foolishness, Tribe can
Aug 24th 2016
76
and they were dumb kids when they made 'Girls'
Aug 24th 2016
80
      Holy Shit! Really?
Aug 24th 2016
89
           yup.
Aug 24th 2016
92
           I just said HOLY SHIT after reading that
Aug 24th 2016
99
           Context for that though....
Aug 24th 2016
108
                Context is a bullshit factor. © rdhull, post #74
Aug 24th 2016
113
                maybe I should be clearer:context of the time/era/zeitgeist
Aug 24th 2016
116
                     http://naturalgasnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Moving-the-goalposts...
Aug 24th 2016
120
                          not moving anything--Im explaining myself clearer..a shame I have to
Aug 24th 2016
131
                               Likewise.
Aug 24th 2016
138
                yup and Girls was an obvious Archie Bunker type parody very diff..
Aug 24th 2016
126
                     They still needed to apologize though.
Aug 24th 2016
152
           Just like Tribe, the label refused it
Aug 24th 2016
107
           yes. there's even promotional t-shirts for the album (CRAZY RARE)...
Aug 24th 2016
112
I'm pretty sure Tip would if it were ever brought up in an interview.
Aug 24th 2016
95
i agree.
Aug 24th 2016
98
I'm sure of it and that would be more than cool
Aug 24th 2016
109
I thought I was late in finding out about this yesterday.
Aug 24th 2016
100
the mocking and shock of appropriate behavior is interesting as hell
Aug 24th 2016
102
Does art have to moral?
Aug 24th 2016
104
it should aspire to be
Aug 24th 2016
106
Who's moral standards should they aspire to?
Aug 24th 2016
166
      aye, there's the rub
Aug 24th 2016
171
No. But if Tribe stands by this record
Aug 24th 2016
111
I'm sure they will miss you
Aug 24th 2016
119
      Actually.....
Aug 24th 2016
137
The irony is that the song likely came from a place of ('91) morality
Aug 24th 2016
205
what if it was Phifes idea?
Aug 24th 2016
110
That doesn't matter...
Aug 24th 2016
114
      whats pathetic is this tired ass argument about where OKP is in 2016
Aug 24th 2016
117
      Think deeper, my man...
Aug 24th 2016
123
      but what about the old days?
Aug 24th 2016
128
           well let's talk about the good old days...
Aug 24th 2016
130
      Oh shut up.
Aug 24th 2016
122
      "He started it!"
Aug 24th 2016
127
           Says the clown whose most significant contribution thus far was ...
Aug 24th 2016
132
                "Oh yeah? Well let's see you do better!"
Aug 24th 2016
134
                     Gosh what HAPPENED to this place ?!
Aug 24th 2016
142
      the joint is run by the class clowns now.
Aug 24th 2016
125
           you cheered for a man's death over comments from 1991
Aug 24th 2016
135
                LOL
Aug 24th 2016
139
                GP is akin to death wishing for gay folks but thats ok?..please siddown
Aug 24th 2016
140
                     Jesus. Reading comprehension is not your strong suit.
Aug 24th 2016
141
                     RE: Jesus. Reading comprehension is not your strong suit.
Aug 24th 2016
147
                     I don't know tho; everyone's straw manning the hell out of the main poin...
Aug 24th 2016
151
                          Co-sign...
Aug 24th 2016
154
                          Yea I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Aug 24th 2016
155
                          especially since the pearl-clutching over that old post has been done
Aug 24th 2016
164
                     the song doesnt exist for purchase.
Aug 24th 2016
146
                          Not that easy. It seems it was removed against their wishes
Aug 24th 2016
157
                               20/21 yrs old is young regardless of their experiences to that point.
Aug 24th 2016
158
                                    Yeah and no. Its as much youth as experience
Aug 24th 2016
161
                                         Fair, I guess but ...
Aug 24th 2016
162
                                         Beasties were intentional snot nosed assholes. Poster boy fratbros
Aug 24th 2016
165
                                              OK I see your point but context is important to both cases ...
Aug 24th 2016
168
                                                   Agreed, except with one exception
Aug 24th 2016
169
                                                        Yea that I can agree with fully.
Aug 24th 2016
172
                                         wait... cause Freddie Mercury died and Magic had HIV and NYC had gays
Aug 24th 2016
175
does the apology have to be heartfelt? will a PR apology do?
Aug 24th 2016
129
...so none of you know about an apology.
Aug 24th 2016
145
do you apologize for your views on perverts exposing themselves to kids?
Aug 24th 2016
148
stop making it seem like he is a proponent for that as a talking point
Aug 24th 2016
150
      SoWhat: They said this crazy shit in 1991
Aug 24th 2016
160
           RE: SoWhat: They said this crazy shit in 1991
Aug 24th 2016
163
                more like you cant believe buddy said something so ridiculous
Aug 24th 2016
178
                Except that isn't what happened.
Aug 24th 2016
184
                     okay, fine. let's split hairs
Aug 24th 2016
186
                          RE: okay, fine. let's split hairs
Aug 24th 2016
189
                               And then I went on to say I wouldn't freak out
Aug 24th 2016
190
                               Yeah.
Aug 24th 2016
192
                               let's have kids watch porn too, it's just sex
Aug 24th 2016
199
                                    let's lower the smoking age to 10, it's just tobacco
Aug 24th 2016
200
                                         why shouldnt kids play with guns? as long as no one dies it's fine
Aug 24th 2016
201
                               yeah you're stretching my words and moving goalposts
Aug 24th 2016
198
                its only a penis, whats the big deal
Aug 24th 2016
182
                     I hate to get sidetracked....
Aug 24th 2016
202
                          no disrespect but I'm not surprised one bit you would think this way
Aug 25th 2016
212
Tribe doesn't owe you shit bro
Aug 24th 2016
167
      they might not owe you shit
Aug 24th 2016
174
           this is Trump's America.
Aug 24th 2016
176
           I dont know if you're a troll or a liar, they run hand in hand
Aug 24th 2016
179
           How do you know he hasn't admitted his faults?
Aug 24th 2016
183
has Ice Cube ever apologized to the jews?
Aug 24th 2016
153
if Kosher Sam was mad I'd understand
Aug 24th 2016
156
money trumps apologies
Aug 24th 2016
159
Well, he only really popped shit at Jerry Heller
Aug 24th 2016
185
Has Eddie Murphy apologized for Raw or Delirious?
Aug 24th 2016
170
yes.
Aug 24th 2016
173
      rdhull ! flipnile ! Get the fuck over here !!
Aug 24th 2016
177
           he still gets side-eyed..his ish wasnt just about aids ignorance
Aug 24th 2016
194
                Maybe you missed my point.
Aug 24th 2016
195
                     no..but maybe you missed mine
Aug 24th 2016
197
                          Yea, ya did. It's cool.
Aug 24th 2016
206
I actually never heard it, or heard of it until now
Aug 24th 2016
180
LOL
Aug 24th 2016
181
Have none of you ever apolgized for old shit??
Aug 24th 2016
187
this is a weird fucking post man. especially since a lot of us are POC
Aug 24th 2016
188
plenty of these ppl were ready to hang Eminem bc of his racial slurs. Lo...
Aug 24th 2016
191
the lack of empathy and short sidedness is appalling.
Aug 24th 2016
193
it's disingenuous trolling
Aug 24th 2016
203
      why do you assume all this? outside of not liking So What?
Aug 25th 2016
210
           Alotta that comes from him making this same post in The Lesson.
Aug 25th 2016
219
           I dont know him to dislike him
Aug 25th 2016
224
Wait a minute. Didn't some of y'all make excuses....
Aug 24th 2016
204
lol
Aug 24th 2016
207
now this would be a pertinent point,
Aug 25th 2016
213
      Yeah, you might wanna stop trying to justify that view...
Aug 25th 2016
215
           Nope. THATS LETTING THE TERRORRISTS WIN (c)
Aug 26th 2016
230
props to Toto and Cheryl Lynn on theirs though
Aug 25th 2016
211
these are ya'll heroes
Aug 25th 2016
222
"It was the 70's!" (c) H.Burress
Aug 25th 2016
223
Funkadelic - Jimmy's Got A Little Bit Of Bitch In Him
Aug 25th 2016
225
Here's the lyrics:
Aug 25th 2016
226
RE: Here's the lyrics:
Aug 25th 2016
227
thank you denny
Aug 26th 2016
231
Your alignment of these two songs says a lot about your view of
Aug 26th 2016
228
Youre trying too hard.
Aug 26th 2016
229
mods: can we anchor this so he can have his pity party here?
Nov 01st 2016
232
i was clear but i'll reiterate:
Nov 01st 2016
233
it's just a song.
Nov 01st 2016
235
someone please give him an answer
Nov 01st 2016
234

FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
43601 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 08:06 AM

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1. "I bet it was slated to come on before Vibes and Stuff"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Aug-24-16 08:06 AM by FLUIDJ

  

          

fcked up though...

I doubt they did, doubt they would.

Were there any songs/groups in the 90's that you just didn't rock with because they were vocal about their homophobia?



"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 08:09 AM

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2. "it became 'Show Business'."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

well, obviously b/c the 2 songs have the same beat.

'SB' might be their response to 'GP' being rejected by Jive.

the saddest part of this story is that JIVE had to refuse to release the song - the group didn't withdraw it after having thought better of it.

>fcked up though...
>
>I doubt they did, doubt they would.

i hope that's not true. Tribe is one of my favorites of all time.

>Were there any songs/groups in the 90's that you just didn't
>rock with because they were vocal about their homophobia?

dozens.

for example - i didn't buy Cuban Linx back then b/c of the abundance of 'faggot' on the album. i had forgot about that and i recently downloaded it. and then had to delete it. that's just one example.

fuck you.

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
43601 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 08:21 AM

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3. "Damn, you are spot on! I'll back that theory indeed...."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

>well, obviously b/c the 2 songs have the same beat.

HA, duh FLUIDJ!...lol.

>'SB' might be their response to 'GP' being rejected by Jive.

SB is a much better song too. And the message and everything had much more importance and weight and staying power. So damn, maybe we all owe Jive a big Thank You!

>the saddest part of this story is that JIVE had to refuse to
>release the song - the group didn't withdraw it after having
>thought better of it.
>
>>fcked up though...
>>
>>I doubt they did, doubt they would.
>
>i hope that's not true. Tribe is one of my favorites of all
>time.

I feel like they'd just brush it off on some "We've grown, and matured."

>>Were there any songs/groups in the 90's that you just didn't
>>rock with because they were vocal about their homophobia?
>
>dozens.
>
>for example - i didn't buy Cuban Linx back then b/c of the
>abundance of 'faggot' on the album. i had forgot about that
>and i recently downloaded it. and then had to delete it.
> that's just one example.

Something about Cuban Linx never clicked with me. I can't even put my finger on it. I know it's a classic, I KNOW it's considered one of the best hip hop albums of all times....but damn, I don't think i've ever even listened to it from start to finish...



"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 08:49 AM

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8. "k."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

fuck you.

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
43601 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 09:28 AM

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16. "Welcome back SoWhat!! :) "
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

damn, i've kinda missed getting SoWhat'd...


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
69843 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 09:13 AM

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13. "smh... "
In response to Reply # 3


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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micMajestic
Charter member
22912 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 08:36 AM

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4. "Apologize for a 25 yr old song that was never released? Why? "
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Aug-24-16 08:38 AM by micMajestic

          

This version of the song doesn't even sound mixed. It was never released for public consumption.

The song is discriminatory, but it isn't "Boom Bye Bye"....

The lyrics of the song are presented like they are talking about someone that they know. What happens if they are still grossed out by the thought of homosexual acts? What if they still don't have any homosexual friends? How do you word the apology then? Again, the song never came out.... where's the proof that it was solely the record label's choice to block the song?

Very few fans had ever heard this song prior to it being leaked on the internet. It wasn't circulating like that back in 1991.

  

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Ill Jux
Member since Jan 19th 2007
14694 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 08:40 AM

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5. "exactly, there is no need to "
In response to Reply # 4


          

the songs is trash and, as stated above, is a rough cut. also, everyone isn't with the gay shit. the song is a bit harsh and uncomfortable to listen to but no needs to apologize.

______

in the memory of NYC upt JUX�

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 08:49 AM

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7. "k."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


fuck you.

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
81412 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 08:50 AM

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9. "^^^"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Big Kuntry
Member since May 09th 2010
14866 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 09:37 AM

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19. " proof that it was solely the record label's choice to block the song? "
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

A track by the name "Georgie Porgie" was originally on the album, but was rejected by Jive Records for being "too homophobic". The track was rewritten as "Show Business", which was added to the album.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Low_End_Theory#Reception_and_influence

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
13360 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 09:46 AM

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24. "Do you have a link that's not Wikipedia tho? lol"
In response to Reply # 19


          

~
~
~
~
~
"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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micMajestic
Charter member
22912 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 09:47 AM

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25. "Anyone could have edited that, did someone from Jive say it?"
In response to Reply # 19


          

>A track by the name "Georgie Porgie" was originally on the
>album, but was rejected by Jive Records for being "too
>homophobic". The track was rewritten as "Show Business", which
>was added to the album.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Low_End_Theory#Reception_and_influence

Did someone in ATCQ confirm that? This info was taken from something a Complex writer wrote.

  

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Big Kuntry
Member since May 09th 2010
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27. "Lol y'all wild "
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

  

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micMajestic
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30. "NO seriously, I'm not going to take the words of some guy who"
In response to Reply # 27


          

wrote for Complex in 2013 as gospel. Where'd he get the information from? Did he get it from someone who worked at Jive? Did he get it from Tribe?

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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6. "have you apologized for bullshit you did 15 or 20 years ago? "
In response to Reply # 0


          

FOH...

the song was never released and even if it was so the fuck what.

unless they are trying to headline gay pride they dont need to apologize for views that may have changed over the last 2 decades.


****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Big Kuntry
Member since May 09th 2010
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17. "..."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

it doesnt matter if it was released or not, they did it!

especially seeing that it was originally ON THE ALBUM but was rejected by the suits.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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20. "who cares, it was 25 years ago and its rap"
In response to Reply # 17


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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10. "You want an apology hit up Ali or Jarobi on Twitter "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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SoWhat
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12. "good idea."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

I don't do Twitter but i can try to reach them another way.

fuck you.

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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14. "RE: good idea."
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

They're on IG too. Tip is on both as well but I know Ali and especially Jarobi will respond.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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SoWhat
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15. "That's what's up"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Brew
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11. "LOL you insufferable loser."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Aug-24-16 09:08 AM by Brew

          

n/m

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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SooperEgo
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18. "this my first time ever hearing it. i wonder who came up with the idea"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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22. "prolly all of them"
In response to Reply # 18


          

and i bet if twitter gets going they will kill this new album unless they apologize cause America

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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26. "RE: this my first time ever hearing it. i wonder who came up with the id..."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

Smells like Brand Nubian to me

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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SooperEgo
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28. "i can DEFINITELY see Lord Jamar hating gays enough to dedicate"
In response to Reply # 26


          

an entire song to them. which is weird to me. it's like he's obsessed with what he hates.

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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29. "RE: i can DEFINITELY see Lord Jamar hating gays enough to dedicate"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

Not sure where Sadat stands today but on In God We Trust he had a few homophobic lines. Puba spit some recently. He didn't even come back to do Show Business which is how Diamond D ended up on it.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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rdhull
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31. "RE: i can DEFINITELY see Lord Jamar hating gays enough to dedicate"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

>an entire song to them. which is weird to me. it's like he's
>obsessed with what he hates.


and you know what that means

  

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atruhead
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21. "THIS GENERATION. TROLLS DI NATION"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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23. "muhfukkas gonna boycott Tribe and stomp on Phifes grave"
In response to Reply # 21


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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32. "It'd be a good interview question to ask him about. I feel like alot of..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

have grown from our casual homophobia from back in the day.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Anonymous
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Wed Aug-24-16 10:32 AM

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33. "I honestly don't see how this shit is remotely surprising"
In response to Reply # 32
Wed Aug-24-16 10:33 AM by Anonymous

  

          

90s hip-hop was super-masculine and pretty much everyone was raised to either think "I'm not with that gay shit" or "just don't bring it around me". That was the accepted mentality back then specifically within hip-hop.

I'm not saying that's right or wrong, I'm just saying that was the atmosphere back then so I'm not sure why this is surprising to anyone or why we can't assume 20 year old men grew up past that stage if they didn't continue that message afterwards.

And the fact this dude thinks he's owed a personal apology so *he* can continue to listen to Tribe is laughable.

  

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rdhull
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34. "the atmosphere back then explanation is has always been bs..come on now"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

>90s hip-hop was super-masculine and pretty much everyone was
>raised to either think "I'm not with that gay shit" or "just
>don't bring it around me". That was the accepted mentality
>back then specifically within hip-hop.
>
>I'm not saying that's right or wrong, I'm just saying that was
>the atmosphere back then so I'm not sure why this is
>surprising to anyone or why we can't assume 20 year old men
>grew up past that stage if they didn't continue that message
>afterwards.
>
>And the fact this dude thinks he's owed a personal apology so
>*he* can continue to listen to Tribe is laughable.

  

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Anonymous
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52. "BS in what sense?"
In response to Reply # 34
Wed Aug-24-16 11:35 AM by Anonymous

  

          

I'm not excusing it by any means.

I'm simply putting it in context of why no one should be surprised by this mentality from ANY hip-hop artist back then.

  

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rdhull
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74. "RE: BS in what sense?"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

Because this was what was in their hearts. Late 80's early 90's or whenever. Its straight out hate. It doesn't matter what era one lives in, even a 100 hears ago. Its still hatred and ignorant. Those who derided certain folks were wrong back then as those who do it now. And from the beginning of time there were people around who refused to partake in such behavior(s). Basically, people BEEN knowing right from wrong. Context is a bullshit factor.

>I'm not excusing it by any means.
>
>I'm simply putting it in context of why no one should be
>surprised by this mentality from ANY hip-hop artist back
>then.
>
>

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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78. "Good god that's thick."
In response to Reply # 74


          

>Context is a bullshit factor.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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rdhull
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83. "just like my dick"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

>>Context is a bullshit factor.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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86. "apologize.. OMG, that was hoooorrible"
In response to Reply # 83


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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87. "Cool joke bro."
In response to Reply # 83


          

Sound like the type of guy who would make a gay joke at age 20.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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rdhull
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94. "RE: Cool joke bro."
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

>Sound like the type of guy who would make a gay joke at age
>20.


but not thinking and writing don several verses of homophobia to record on wax, deciding to do that instead of something else with the world as my oyster at the time

  

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Brew
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97. "Another flawless human !"
In response to Reply # 94


          

I didn't realize we had so many pristine individuals around here.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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rdhull
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101. "Im not flawless but I would never do something heinous like that"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

>I didn't realize we had so many pristine individuals around
>here.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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115. "lmao, they recorded a song, they didnt razorblade gays in the village"
In response to Reply # 101


          

have to remind myself okp's shit dont stink.

whats funny tho is dude was outed for talking that bitch, hoe shit 10 years ago and the same people demanding an apology now were quicl to defend him on some "that was 10 years ago, people change"

and its true....

but those negros are hypocritical as fuck.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Brew
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118. "http://www.iccs.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/high-horse-pic.jpg"
In response to Reply # 101


          

http://www.iccs.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/high-horse-pic.jpg

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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121. "at least he admitted he wasnt flawless"
In response to Reply # 118


          

i think thats where most of us stand on this...

but IMO what will an apology really do.

"sorry I was young and dumb"

thanks Tribe, now I can go back to playing your records.

FOH.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Brew
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124. "Right."
In response to Reply # 121


          

>"sorry I was young and dumb"
>
>thanks Tribe, now I can go back to playing your records.
>
>FOH.

And like I previously said, apparently an apology isn't enough because SW himself said that he doesn't fuck with Common anymore even though the motherfucker apologized on record 14 years ago.

Moving goal posts depending on who he's trolling, of course.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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rdhull
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133. "that really necessary? come on..not excusing homophobia isnt hi horsing"
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

>http://www.iccs.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/high-horse-pic.jpg

  

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Brew
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136. "But pretending like the mistakes your made are somehow ..."
In response to Reply # 133
Wed Aug-24-16 01:01 PM by Brew

          

... better or more excusable than the ones others made IS high-horsing. So.

Context is important and it is not mutually exclusive with excusing the deplorable song they made. Both can be true. You can provide the context to help explain the thought process behind why Tribe may have felt they were OK to release a (disgusting) song like this at 21 years of age in 1991 and still find it inexcusable and abhorrent to make such a song.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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rdhull
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143. "ah, I see I could be accused of that with how I explained."
In response to Reply # 136
Wed Aug-24-16 01:29 PM by rdhull

  

          

and I'll be that then..because at 21 Id never think of doing such or writing shit like that..even at 16. In a cipher etc

>... better or more excusable than the ones others made IS
>high-horsing. So.
>
>Context is important and it is not mutually exclusive with
>excusing the deplorable song they made. Both can be true. You
>can provide the context to help explain the thought process
>behind why Tribe may have felt they were OK to release a
>(disgusting) song like this at 21 years of age in 1991 and
>still find it inexcusable and abhorrent to make such a song.

  

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Anonymous
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103. "you sound utterly ridiculous "
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

People in their teens and early 20s very much so follow the crowd and are still searching for acceptance.

And as Brew already pointed out, your responses are very telling of what kind of youth you were.

But we already know it's always the 'holier than though' crowd that always has the most dirt in their past and usually present life.

  

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rdhull
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105. "I know it seems that way but how else can I explain it?"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

>People in their teens and early 20s very much so follow the
>crowd and are still searching for acceptance.
>
>And as Brew already pointed out, your responses are very
>telling of what kind of youth you were.
>
>But we already know it's always the 'holier than though' crowd
>that always has the most dirt in their past and usually
>present life.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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62. "lmao... I keep forgetting OKP's never whined as kids. "
In response to Reply # 34


          

yall so perfect.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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atruhead
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35. "not to mention his login celebrates Miles Davis"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

  

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okayplayery
Member since Aug 25th 2012
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Thu Aug-25-16 03:59 AM

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208. "It's surprising"
In response to Reply # 33
Thu Aug-25-16 04:02 AM by okayplayery

          

It's one thing to be "casually homophobic" on some "don't talk about it around me, keep it to yourself" shit.
It's whole other thing to make a hateful song specifically targeting gays. Not just using homophobic slurs or anti-gay one-liners in lyrics like many 90s rappers did, but going all the way in on some "we hate gays" shit. You'd have to be actively homophobic to make song like this one. Like, "let's go and beat this faggot's teeth in after we finish this beer" level homophobic.

  

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Paps_Smear
Member since Feb 02nd 2009
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:02 AM

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36. "People grow up"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Maybe they don't feel that way at all anymore because they were really young when this was made. As disgusting as some things are, should we really be judged by things we may have ignorantly said while young?

This whole apologize thing is crazy too. Should I apologize for saying "yo mama" jokes on the school bus as a kid? No, we did dumb kid shit and got over it.

Meanwhile some people said some fucked up shit a few days to a year ago and ain't held to the same standards.

=================
Official Okay-Super Villain™

I only play the games that I win at -
Gamertag: Innovator
PSN: DurtyGambino
Steam: Durty Gambino
Twitch.tv/durtygambino

  

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Case_One
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:22 AM

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42. "Man some folks are on a mission. Not trying to hear about change/growth"
In response to Reply # 36


          

>Maybe they don't feel that way at all anymore because they
>were really young when this was made. As disgusting as some
>things are, should we really be judged by things we may have
>ignorantly said while young?
>
>This whole apologize thing is crazy too. Should I apologize
>for saying "yo mama" jokes on the school bus as a kid? No, we
>did dumb kid shit and got over it.
>
>Meanwhile some people said some fucked up shit a few days to a
>year ago and ain't held to the same standards.



You're trying to be rational and most folks want an EMO war.


.
.
.

  

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Case_One
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37. "No they're not. Why should they? "
In response to Reply # 0


          


.
.
.

  

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soulfunk
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:16 AM

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38. "I think ya'll are too quick to brush this off. If a white singer"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

had an unreleased song from 25 years ago and on it they were saying all kinds of racist stuff and using the N word, and that song came out now, even if they DID apologize we would be looking at them with a side eye. And we definitely wouldn't be accepting excuses for no apology because "they were young" or "it was a different time" or "they've grown now".

  

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Innocent Criminal
Member since May 03rd 2003
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:19 AM

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39. "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Chd8VzL2soY"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Chd8VzL2soY

________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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Wed Aug-24-16 01:12 PM

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144. "HahA..at first I was kinda nodding my head to it....then he went left.."
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

WAAAAAY Left...lol..
But freestyling be like that sometimes...just gotta roll with the awkward until you get back in the groove...
unfortunately he didn't get back in the groove until 10 years later lol...


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

  

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Case_One
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40. "They should apologize when every rapper apologizes for say Nigga"
In response to Reply # 38


          


.
.
.

  

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Big Kuntry
Member since May 09th 2010
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:22 AM

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44. "They should apologize when every rapper apologizes for say Nigga"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/10/Chris-Rock-HUH-WTF.gif

  

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Case_One
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46. "What? Did you miss out on the point?"
In response to Reply # 44


          


.
.
.

  

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Big Kuntry
Member since May 09th 2010
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:32 AM

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50. "RE: What? Did you miss out on the point?"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/sDFTx5y.jpg

  

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Case_One
Charter member
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:35 AM

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53. "FYI, I can't see any of those Pics or Gifs at work."
In response to Reply # 50


          


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.
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Big Kuntry
Member since May 09th 2010
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:39 AM

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57. "RE: FYI, I can't see any of those Pics or Gifs at work."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

http://goo.gl/tb7PBl

  

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Case_One
Charter member
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75. "You're not listening. They got i LOCKED here like a mug."
In response to Reply # 57


          

I'm glad that hey haven't discovered OKP yet
.
.
.

  

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rdhull
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85. "he posted an orangutan mock smiling a woman reporter"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

>I'm glad that hey haven't discovered OKP yet
>.
>.
>.

  

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Case_One
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91. "You funny"
In response to Reply # 85


          


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rdhull
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96. "check it when u get home..thats what the actual gif is"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

>
>.
>.
>.

  

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Case_One
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216. "ROTFL"
In response to Reply # 50


          

  

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Government Name
Member since Dec 16th 2005
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149. "stop"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

________
http://twitter.com/aehorton
http://instagram.com/aehorton

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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41. "Not an apples to apples comparison."
In response to Reply # 38


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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soulfunk
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196. "Okay, what is different about the two examples?"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

  

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Brew
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209. "I really have to spell it out for you ?"
In response to Reply # 196


          

The plight of the black man in America is a ***LOT*** different than the plight of the gay man in America. Both examples of discrimination are terrible and wrong. But one group has been oppressed at a FARRRRRRRRR deeper level than the other.

Again, both are wrong. But whether you're willing to admit it or not, there are degrees, and one is way more extreme than the other.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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soulfunk
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214. "So we agree..."
In response to Reply # 209


  

          

>Both
>examples of discrimination are terrible and wrong.

I didn't say anything about levels of how bad the different groups have had it. Yes this is not a one to one comparison on who has it worse - I don't think you can really compare that because it's a different thing. Also as a straight black man I am not as informed to even know everything the LGBT community has to deal with.

But this is about the fact that bigotry and discrimination are WRONG in both cases, and it isn't unreasonable at all to expect at least an apology. The fact that something was done in the past when someone was young shouldn't be an excuse in either case.

  

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Brew
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217. "No, we kinda don't."
In response to Reply # 214
Thu Aug-25-16 09:49 AM by Brew

          

>I didn't say anything about levels of how bad the different
>groups have had it. Yes this is not a one to one comparison on
>who has it worse - I don't think you can really compare that
>because it's a different thing. Also as a straight black man I
>am not as informed to even know everything the LGBT community
>has to deal with.

Right but you don't need to be intimately familiar with their struggles to know how different the two groups' situations were.


>But this is about the fact that bigotry and discrimination are
>WRONG in both cases, and it isn't unreasonable at all to
>expect at least an apology. The fact that something was done
>in the past when someone was young shouldn't be an excuse in
>either case.

This is where reading comprehension comes into play. I've said about 3 million times in here that Tribe's age nor the time period are an "excuse" nor do they afford them a pass for their disgusting bigotry. BUT, the context of their age and time period (being that homosexuality was MASSIVELY misunderstood by pretty much the entire planet at the time, as well as just the general attitude towards homosexuality within the hip-hop community as an extension of that) DOES provide some important detail as to why a group like Tribe, otherwise viewed as socially conscious and positive, might have thought it OK and acceptable to create a song like that AT THAT TIME. THIS DOES NOT EXCUSE THE BIGOTRY. It just provides some background. This isn't all that difficult to understand.

So, as it relates to your analogy, my point is that by 1991, while racism was (and is, in 2016) still very much alive in many pockets of the country, a white person, and specifically, a white rapper, would ABSOLUTELY have been well aware of how fucked up and wrong it would've been to create a song attacking the black community and using racial slurs. I don't really think the same can be said about a group/artist attacking the gay community because like I said, it was still largely a misunderstood human element at that time. And on top of that, the internet hadn't really taken hold yet so it's not like a misinformed/ignorant person could just go online and read about the fact that homosexuality is totally normal and natural, and not some biological disorder or whatever the fuck stupid people used to think it was.

Context is important, to this discussion in general and to your specific analogy. And the context makes your analogy a poor one. I see what you were getting at to an extent, all I'm saying is that it's way more nuanced than you presented it to be.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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soulfunk
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218. "I never said anything about the timing of a hypothetical racist "
In response to Reply # 217


  

          

song. If your problem with the analogy is that in 1991 people weren't fully aware of homophobic bigotry, then imagine the hypothetical racist song to be from a time when racist bigotry was more mainstream. Take a Frank Sinatra or Johnny Cash and let's say they did a blatantly racist song in the 50's that was uncovered 25 years later in the late 70's. Would it be appropriate for their black fans in the 70's to have wanted an apology?

Again, in my original post I wasn't getting into the specifics of every situation - I was just saying that Tribe was wrong for that song and that it's reasonable for an LGBT fan to want some kind of an apology. I also think that it's pretty tone deaf for people in this post who are straight to be dictating how a gay person should feel after hearing the song.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Thu Aug-25-16 10:54 AM

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220. "Wait, but you actually did..."
In response to Reply # 218
Thu Aug-25-16 11:03 AM by Brew

          

Your initial response read: "If a white singer had an unreleased song from 25 years ago and on it they were saying all kinds of racist stuff and using the N word..."

So you did reference the time period of said hypothetical song.


>song. If your problem with the analogy is that in 1991 people
>weren't fully aware of homophobic bigotry, then imagine the
>hypothetical racist song to be from a time when racist bigotry
>was more mainstream. Take a Frank Sinatra or Johnny Cash and
>let's say they did a blatantly racist song in the 50's that
>was uncovered 25 years later in the late 70's. Would it be
>appropriate for their black fans in the 70's to have wanted an
>apology?
>
>Again, in my original post I wasn't getting into the specifics
>of every situation - I was just saying that Tribe was wrong
>for that song and that it's reasonable for an LGBT fan to want
>some kind of an apology. I also think that it's pretty tone
>deaf for people in this post who are straight to be dictating
>how a gay person should feel after hearing the song.

Word. I never said that they shouldn't apologize. But there's some nuance to that as well:

Unless prompted, why would Tribe open up that can of worms ? Seems kind of unnecessary. Were the group members to be ASKED about it by an interviewer or something, and ignore or inappropriately answer the question, that'd be one thing. But to expect the group to just randomly dig up a hardly-known 25 year old song and self-snitch and apologize seems like kind of a ridiculous request for anyone to make, gay community or not.

But with all that said --- I do think that this should be brought to their attention, that way they will be kind of forced to answer to it and hopefully that will put everyone's minds at ease.

In other words, I don't think it's ridiculous for members of the gay community who are aware of this song to want some sort of acknowledgement from the group about it. But I think, like someone mentioned earlier in the post, that it will need to be brought to their attention by some people for that to happen. Can't expect them to hang themselves.


Lastly, I agree that it's tone deaf for people to tell people how they should feel in response to hearing a song but I *don't* think it's overstepping any boundaries to expect that someone wouldn't say they will "piss on Phife's grave" in response to something like that. That type of comment deserves just as much vitriol as the song.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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soulfunk
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221. "We good - I agree with all of this."
In response to Reply # 220


  

          

>Your initial response read: "If a white singer had an
>unreleased song from 25 years ago and on it they were saying
>all kinds of racist stuff and using the N word..."
>
>So you did reference the time period of said hypothetical
>song.

I feel you. It wasn't my intent to have it be directly the same time period, I just meant that the song was uncovered 25 years later. But the way I typed it I see what you mean.

>Word. I never said that they shouldn't apologize. But there's
>some nuance to that as well:
>
>Unless prompted, why would Tribe open up that can of worms ?
>Seems kind of unnecessary. Were the group members to be ASKED
>about it by an interviewer or something, and ignore or
>inappropriately answer the question, that'd be one thing. But
>to expect the group to just randomly dig up a hardly-known 25
>year old song and self-snitch and apologize seems like kind of
>a ridiculous request for anyone to make, gay community or
>not.

Yep, I agree. I don't blame them for not bringing up an unreleased song. But yeah - this is something that should be asked to them directly to give them a chance to respond.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:36 AM

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"see also: Eminem."


  

          

http://www.mtv.com/news/1480512/the-source-digs-up-tape-of-eminem-using-racial-slurs/

fuck you.

  

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SoWhat
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69. "^ btw, Eminem APOLOGIZED for the slurs even though the song"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

was never released. even though he made the song when he was a dumb 15 year old kid. he APOLOGIZED.

*clears throat*

"Ray Benzino, Dave Mays and The Source have had a vendetta against me, Shady Records and our artists for a long time," Eminem said in a statement. "The tape they played today was something I made out of anger, stupidity and frustration when I was a teenager. I'd just broken up with my girlfriend, who was African-American, and I reacted like the angry, stupid kid I was. I hope people will take it for the foolishness that it was, not for what somebody is trying to make it into today."

http://www.mtv.com/news/1480512/the-source-digs-up-tape-of-eminem-using-racial-slurs/

fuck you.

  

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Case_One
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Wed Aug-24-16 12:04 PM

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84. "He felt the need to assimilate and be accepted in the cultur of rap"
In response to Reply # 69


          

But he ain't apologize for talking about murdering his moms and babymamma, did he?
.
.
.

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:22 AM

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43. "smh at all the "people grow up / they was just kids" excuses"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Probably the most often-used excuse in modern times for people to not take responsibility for something (or to absolve someone else from responsibility).

  

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Case_One
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:24 AM

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45. "It's not an excuse. Kids do kid stuff and grow up"
In response to Reply # 43


          

>Probably the most often-used excuse in modern times for
>people to not take responsibility for something (or to absolve
>someone else from responsibility).

So how may apology letters have you sent out for all the dumb kid stuff you did, said and got away with?


.
.
.

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:28 AM

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48. "In what world are 21 year-olds "kids" ?"
In response to Reply # 45


          

Both Tip and Phife were born in 1970, and that song was made in 1991.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:32 AM

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49. "You didn't do any stupid shit when you were 20/21 ?"
In response to Reply # 48


          

Better man than I.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Case_One
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55. "No, He was born of a virgin "
In response to Reply # 49


          


.
.
.

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:36 AM

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56. "I didn't leave a permanent record of stupid shit I did"
In response to Reply # 49
Wed Aug-24-16 11:38 AM by flipnile

          

We recorded songs when I was 21 (shit, when I was 16), but I wasn't dumb enough to record myself using a bunch of slurs, or making any hateful statements, etc. I also wasn't dumb enough to allow photos of myself while holding weed, liquor, drugs, guns, etc. I also avoided doing anything that would land me in jail or make the papers in a negative way because I knew that wouldn't help me in life, only hurt me.

The concept of a "reputation" and how one cultivates that has existed for thousands of years, but now folks want to act brand new on some "I was just a kid!"

foh. If folks do dumb shit then they reap what they sow.

Should we forgive the teen killers that prowl the city as "just kids" as well?

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:39 AM

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58. "Well what an incredible person you are."
In response to Reply # 56
Wed Aug-24-16 11:40 AM by Brew

          

>We recorded songs when I was 21 (shit, when I was 16), but I
>wasn't dumb enough to record myself using a bunch of slurs, or
>making any hateful statements, etc. I also wasn't dumb enough
>to allow photos of myself while holding weed, liquor, drugs,
>guns, etc. I also avoided doing anything that would land me in
>jail or make the papers in a negative way because I knew that
>wouldn't help me in life, only hurt me.

You should be awfully proud. Most people make mistakes. Sounds like you never did. Your parents must be proud, champ.

Also, I note that you said you never RECORDED yourself using a bunch of slurs or making hateful statements ... which would lead me to believe that you used them, just not on record. Cool.


>The concept of a "reputation" and how one cultivates that has
>existed for thousands of years, but now folks want to act
>brand new on some "I was just a kid!"
>
>foh. If folks do dumb shit then they reap what they sow.
>
>Should we forgive the teen killers that prowl the city as
>"just kids" as well?

Uhm, well, yes we kinda do. The legal process for people under 18 is a LOT different than it is for people over 18. For a reason.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:41 AM

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61. "Yup, we're all proud."
In response to Reply # 58


          

lol, this discussion is a race to the bottom.

  

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Brew
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:42 AM

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64. "k."
In response to Reply # 61
Wed Aug-24-16 11:43 AM by Brew

          

©

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:42 AM

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63. "The fuck do *I* have to do with this?"
In response to Reply # 49


          

You on that feminine shit, trying to make the discussion about me, huh?

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:44 AM

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66. "Wait, did you just dual-reply to my post ..."
In response to Reply # 63
Wed Aug-24-16 11:46 AM by Brew

          

... 20 minutes later just to recycle a (bad) joke you already made in response to someone else ?

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:46 AM

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68. "Wasn't a joke, it's a real question, but I already know. nvrmnd."
In response to Reply # 66


          

Shit is transparent, b.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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70. "It was a bad joke man."
In response to Reply # 68
Wed Aug-24-16 11:48 AM by Brew

          

Don't backtrack now.

Anyway, your reading comprehension is poor to quite poor.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Case_One
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:36 AM

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54. "You're kidding? No wait how old are you?"
In response to Reply # 48


          


.
.
.

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:39 AM

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59. "Legally and physically, 21-year-olds are ADULTS, not kids"
In response to Reply # 54


          

What does MY age matter? You want to try some feminine shit and make the discussion about me?

  

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Case_One
Charter member
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:56 AM

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77. "Yeah, you don't know nada"
In response to Reply # 59


          


.
.
.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:40 AM

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60. "21 year olds rapping? cmon son"
In response to Reply # 48


          

plenty of 21 year old rappers are in jail right now for dumb shit.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Case_One
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79. "You can't rationalize with him about this"
In response to Reply # 60


          


.
.
.

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
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Wed Aug-24-16 12:02 PM

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82. "lol, all you dudes have done is make snarky comments"
In response to Reply # 79


          

Cool "rationalizing" bro.

I'm out tho. Not gonna slow down this circlejerk with logic anymore.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
21123 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 12:08 PM

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88. "What logic."
In response to Reply # 82


          

>I'm out tho. Not gonna slow down this circlejerk with logic
>anymore.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Aug-24-16 12:08 PM

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90. "hindsite is 20/20"
In response to Reply # 82


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Case_One
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Wed Aug-24-16 12:10 PM

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93. "You will be your own king one day"
In response to Reply # 82


          


.
.
.

  

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Case_One
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47. "It's people in hear that give R Kelly a pass and he's still dating kids"
In response to Reply # 0


          


.
.
.

  

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rdhull
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51. "Maax dont count"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

lol

  

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13Rose
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65. "This is some telling shit going on in here"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I forget sometimes that most people don't see their word as their bond. SMH

This post was paid for by the following.

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PSN: ThirteenRose

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:44 AM

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67. "not 25 years later"
In response to Reply # 65


          

at least I hope not.

I would really hate for people to bring up my early 20's/late teens on some gotcha bullshit.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:49 AM

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72. "Limp-wristed handshakes and eye contact avoiding all up in here"
In response to Reply # 65


          

  

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Case_One
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81. "You keep throwing out some real passive aggressive thoughts bro. "
In response to Reply # 72


          

What's up with that?
.
.
.

  

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handle
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Wed Aug-24-16 11:48 AM

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71. "Post over in OkayTechnology too"
In response to Reply # 0


          

After all you got it as an MP3.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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SoWhat
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73. "and OkayArtist."
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

fuck you.

  

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justin_scott
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76. "if the Beastie Boys could apologize for their foolishness, Tribe can"
In response to Reply # 0


          

The Beasties didn't have to, but their refusal to play "Girls," and Ad Rock apologizing to homosexuals in Time Out magazine in 1999 speak incredibly highly of them as people. I don't think we should necessarily demonize Tribe for this song, but should people be disappointed? yes.

************************************************************

  

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SoWhat
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80. "and they were dumb kids when they made 'Girls'"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

and almost titled License to Ill 'Don't Be a Faggot'. still the group APOLOGIZED. publicly, even.

look at that!

fuck you.

  

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placee_22
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89. "Holy Shit! Really?"
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

>and almost titled License to Ill 'Don't Be a Faggot'.

I never knew this. I couldn't even see anyone rocking w/ a song with a title like that.

  

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SoWhat
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92. "yup."
In response to Reply # 89
Wed Aug-24-16 12:10 PM by SoWhat

  

          

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/222302/the-beastie-boys-almost-named-their-first-album-dont-be-a-faggot/

http://www.ew.com/article/1999/12/15/beastie-boys-apologize-past-homophobia

fuck you.

  

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13Rose
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99. "I just said HOLY SHIT after reading that"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

WOW.

This post was paid for by the following.

www.twitter.com/13Rose
www.debunkthemyth.org
http://dashaunworld.wordpress.com/
www.mothergreen.com

Remember MJ The Great!
PSN: ThirteenRose

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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Wed Aug-24-16 12:27 PM

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108. "Context for that though...."
In response to Reply # 99
Wed Aug-24-16 12:28 PM by denny

          

Not sure if you are aware....but the Beastie Boy's first album was intended to be a PARODY of frat-boy culture. They were coming from a punk-rock background that had progressive values....so songs like 'fight for your right to party' were satirical in nature....they were projecting an image and persona with tongue-in-cheek. So naming the album 'Don't be a faggot' was an extension of this satirical theme. The Beastie boys themselves have admitted that as time passed...what began as a parody became more and more 'real' sort of speak. And they had fallen into the trap of becoming what they had originally set out to making fun of or satirize. This point has been part of their multiple public apologies throughout the years.

  

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Brew
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113. "Context is a bullshit factor. © rdhull, post #74"
In response to Reply # 108


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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rdhull
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116. "maybe I should be clearer:context of the time/era/zeitgeist"
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

>

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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120. "http://naturalgasnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Moving-the-goalposts..."
In response to Reply # 116


          

http://naturalgasnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Moving-the-goalposts-300x2402.jpg

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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rdhull
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131. "not moving anything--Im explaining myself clearer..a shame I have to"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

>http://naturalgasnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Moving-the-goalposts-300x2402.jpg

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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138. "Likewise."
In response to Reply # 131


          

>a shame I have to

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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rdhull
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126. "yup and Girls was an obvious Archie Bunker type parody very diff.."
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

from writing a full on homophobic song...Ill was a full on "act"..GP was something different

>Not sure if you are aware....but the Beastie Boy's first
>album was intended to be a PARODY of frat-boy culture. They
>were coming from a punk-rock background that had progressive
>values....so songs like 'fight for your right to party' were
>satirical in nature....they were projecting an image and
>persona with tongue-in-cheek. So naming the album 'Don't be a
>faggot' was an extension of this satirical theme. The Beastie
>boys themselves have admitted that as time passed...what began
>as a parody became more and more 'real' sort of speak. And
>they had fallen into the trap of becoming what they had
>originally set out to making fun of or satirize. This point
>has been part of their multiple public apologies throughout
>the years.

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
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152. "They still needed to apologize though."
In response to Reply # 126


          

I think it was Rick Rubin's influence. The sexism and obnoxious frat boy thing might have been a joke in the beginning....but it wasn't a joke or parody for Rick. And I think they were kinda following his lead. I know their original drummer kate Schellenbach (later co-founded Luscious jackson) had a falling out with them because the line between satire and reality was becoming questionable. They apologized and reconciled with her later on and were generally ashamed for what they became for a few years.

As a sidenote....RIP to MCA. I usually hate when artists get political but he found a way of doing it that just appeared to be so genuine and heartfelt without being self-aggrandizing or opportunistic. This clip is so touching. I love watching him getting ready knowing what he was about to do before talking. Focused:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT1FT-zXtDw

  

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justin_scott
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107. "Just like Tribe, the label refused it"
In response to Reply # 89


          

And let me add that I have no problem apologizing for using phrases like "that's gay/ghey" and "no homo." I was never anti-gay, just immature and stupid. I've long removed them from my vocab, but an apology always goes a long way.

************************************************************

  

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PROMO
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112. "yes. there's even promotional t-shirts for the album (CRAZY RARE)..."
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

that say Don't Be A Faggot on them.

the STORY is not that they were homophobic but that they simply wanted an album title that would get attention and shock everyone.

their goal would have got accomplished, but i'm glad they changed it.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

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placee_22
Member since Sep 30th 2002
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Wed Aug-24-16 12:11 PM

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95. "I'm pretty sure Tip would if it were ever brought up in an interview. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

You're the only person I've ever heard bring it up. In fact I'd never heard of that lost song until you posted about it.

I'm sure we still got enough juice on OKP somewhere to make this happen.

FTR, I think it should happen. I want to believe that this is more a sin of omission rather than commission (re: the apology).

  

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SoWhat
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98. "i agree."
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

even though the song was never released it's out there floating around on the Internet. ppl have heard it. but if he hasn't been asked in an interview then he hasn't had a chance to speak on it. i bet if given the chance he'd make it right.

fuck you.

  

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Case_One
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109. "I'm sure of it and that would be more than cool"
In response to Reply # 95


          


.
.
.

  

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Teknontheou
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100. "I thought I was late in finding out about this yesterday."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It seems like the very few people, even among us playery types who constitute Tribe's core fanbase, knew about of had heard this song.

In that sense, they've been able to kind of skate on this.

They should fully and completely renounce this, though. It would be a really easy thing to do. This is from 25 years ago. They could talk about how they don't feel that way anymore and that they were wrong to have thought that way or made such a song in the first place.

  

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rdhull
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102. "the mocking and shock of appropriate behavior is interesting as hell"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Reuben
Member since Mar 13th 2006
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Wed Aug-24-16 12:22 PM

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104. "Does art have to moral?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_______________________________________
When discourse of Blackness is not connected to efforts to promote collective black self determinism
it becomes simply another recourse appropriated by the colonizer

http://hardboiledbabesanddarkchocolate.tumblr.co

  

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rdhull
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106. "it should aspire to be"
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

  

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Reuben
Member since Mar 13th 2006
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166. "Who's moral standards should they aspire to?"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

_______________________________________
When discourse of Blackness is not connected to efforts to promote collective black self determinism
it becomes simply another recourse appropriated by the colonizer

http://hardboiledbabesanddarkchocolate.tumblr.co

  

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rdhull
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171. "aye, there's the rub"
In response to Reply # 166


  

          

  

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SoWhat
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111. "No. But if Tribe stands by this record"
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

then I'm done with them.

fuck you.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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119. "I'm sure they will miss you"
In response to Reply # 111


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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137. "Actually....."
In response to Reply # 119
Wed Aug-24-16 01:09 PM by denny

          

Tribe could potentially lose ALOT of their base for this. Not just because they are a staple in gay hip hop scenes (which exist) but also because I'd contend the average Tribe fan tends to be more progressive and politically-minded than the average overall hip hop fan.

This is a threat to their brand in a way that it would not be to Easy E. fact is....they have made alot of money being the hip hop group that Phish fans like. And that part of their audience is not gonna like this.

  

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cbk
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205. "The irony is that the song likely came from a place of ('91) morality"
In response to Reply # 104


          

But in a way it makes me feel proud/hopeful that our 2016 reaction to a song like this comes from a far more inclusive/evolved place than our reaction would be in 1991.

D'ANGELO beat tape PART 2: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/album/dangelo-beat-tape-2020

IPHONE LP2 “A beatmaker who loved” https://music.apple.com/us/album/a-beatmaker-who-loved/1473644375

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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110. "what if it was Phifes idea? "
In response to Reply # 0


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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Wed Aug-24-16 12:38 PM

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114. "That doesn't matter..."
In response to Reply # 110
Wed Aug-24-16 12:40 PM by Marbles

  

          

Any of them who participated in the song, knowing what the message would be are responsible for it.

I don't give a damn if they were in their 20s. They were old enough to have record deals and put their voices down for people around the world to hear. They're responsible for what they say.

If they regret the song, they should renounce it.

EDIT - some of the arguments y'all are making regarding this issue (here & in the Lesson) are really embarrassing. Has OKP really become that bad? We used to have some real provocative thinkers. The level of discourse in this place has become pathetic.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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117. "whats pathetic is this tired ass argument about where OKP is in 2016"
In response to Reply # 114


          

why cant we just debate the topic?

why does OKP have to agree on everything or it means this place has fallen off?

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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123. "Think deeper, my man..."
In response to Reply # 117


  

          


It's not about whether folks agree with me or not. The topic is certainly worthy of being debated. I'll listen to any argument from either side that makes sense.

It's the way that people go back and forth these days. It's the corny ass personal vendettas. It's the lack of logic and reading comprehension.

Folks on here have got to be sharper than what they show. They just have to be.

  

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SooperEgo
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128. "but what about the old days?"
In response to Reply # 117


          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R94t8E71Ct0&feature=youtu.be&t=13s

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Aug-24-16 12:53 PM

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130. "well let's talk about the good old days..."
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYsHhf97hrE

fuck you.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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122. "Oh shut up."
In response to Reply # 114


          

> EDIT - some of the arguments y'all are making regarding this
>issue (here & in the Lesson) are really embarrassing. Has OKP
>really become that bad? We used to have some real provocative
>thinkers. The level of discourse in this place has become
>pathetic.

Talk to the OP if you want to dive into that rabbit hole. People responded with non-confrontational, thoughtful responses expressing their own opinions on the matter and all we got in return was "good for you" and "k.", aka the same condescending, trolling bullshit he's known for.

And the conversation(s) devolved from there. No one's fault but his own.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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127. ""He started it!""
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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132. "Says the clown whose most significant contribution thus far was ..."
In response to Reply # 127
Wed Aug-24-16 12:57 PM by Brew

          

... the equivalent of "TOKP"

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
21790 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 12:58 PM

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134. ""Oh yeah? Well let's see you do better!""
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
21123 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 01:10 PM

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142. "Gosh what HAPPENED to this place ?!"
In response to Reply # 134


          

© you

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
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125. "the joint is run by the class clowns now."
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

fuck you.

  

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atruhead
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135. "you cheered for a man's death over comments from 1991"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

you also made two posts, yet we're the clowns

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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139. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 135


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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rdhull
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140. "GP is akin to death wishing for gay folks but thats ok?..please siddown"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

>you also made two posts, yet we're the clowns

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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141. "Jesus. Reading comprehension is not your strong suit."
In response to Reply # 140


          

No one said that it was "OK". Not a single person.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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rdhull
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Wed Aug-24-16 01:15 PM

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147. "RE: Jesus. Reading comprehension is not your strong suit."
In response to Reply # 141


  

          

>No one said that it was "OK". Not a single person.

I know that but I can see where SW would make the statements he made about Phife as the lyrics that were GP say as much the same damn near

I didnt say the denizens here think that way as the song

  

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BigReg
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Wed Aug-24-16 01:28 PM

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151. "I don't know tho; everyone's straw manning the hell out of the main poin..."
In response to Reply # 141
Wed Aug-24-16 01:31 PM by BigReg

  

          

on some SOWHAT SAID XXX SO HE POSSIBLY CAN'T HAVE A POINT, HE'S TROLLING US

If SoWhat was exposed to be Lord Jamal's ghostwriter the main point of the post still stands that Porgy remains an extremely problematic song from an era when using the term 'fag' was still seen as fine, from a band that made positivity one of their big themes. I can't think of a more homophobic song from beginning to end in hip-hop, or in music in general, lol. Its quite a juxtaposition from the rest of their career.

I understand the allure to expose on the summerstage screen in OKP fashion, but imho its dodging a legit post and debate.

>No one said that it was "OK". Not a single person.

  

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Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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Wed Aug-24-16 01:35 PM

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154. "Co-sign..."
In response to Reply # 151


  

          

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Aug-24-16 01:36 PM

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155. "Yea I agree with you wholeheartedly."
In response to Reply # 151
Wed Aug-24-16 01:39 PM by Brew

          

But like I said to Marbles, people are just responding to the OP in kind. Dude made a thinly-veiled bait post (albeit regarding a subject I know he has strong feelings about and with good reason) and people responded with their opinions on the matter, to which he responded with "k." and the like. That's infuriating. So the post devolved because he allowed it to. I mean if "I piss on Phife's grave" isn't bait posting I'd love for you to tell me what in the entire fuck is. To expect the rest of the forum to respond to some bullshit like that with "I understand how you feel" is just disingenuous on your part.

But despite that - interspersed throughout the "TOKP" stuff *IS* the discourse everyone claims to be so desperate for, but those same people pining for thoughtful discussion are ignoring the posts that include that very thing.


>on some SOWHAT SAID XXX SO HE POSSIBLY CAN'T HAVE A POINT,
>HE'S TROLLING US
>
>If SoWhat was exposed to be Lord Jamal's ghostwriter the main
>point of the post still stands that Porgy remains an extremely
>problematic song from an era when using the term 'fag' was
>still seen as fine, from a band that made positivity one of
>their big themes. I can't think of a more homophobic song
>from beginning to end in hip-hop, or in music in general, lol.
> Its quite a juxtaposition from the rest of their career.
>
>I understand the allure to expose on the summerstage screen in
>OKP fashion, but imho its dodging a legit post and debate.
>
>>No one said that it was "OK". Not a single person.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Aug-24-16 02:09 PM

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164. "especially since the pearl-clutching over that old post has been done"
In response to Reply # 151


  

          

numerous times by the same OKP. it's an old tired routine he pulls out whenever i post som'n w/which he disagrees and i make fun of him. i dunno what his point is and i don't give a fuck.

fuck you.

  

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atruhead
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Wed Aug-24-16 01:14 PM

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146. "the song doesnt exist for purchase."
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

the internet has made it possible for anyone's stupidity from 25 years ago to be uploaded
that doesnt mean said stupidity is okay
it does mean that it was 1991

SoWhat is 40 pretending shit he said or did at age 15 should matter today, meanwhile he'll type repugnant beliefs today just for a reaction

  

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BigReg
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Wed Aug-24-16 01:44 PM

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157. "Not that easy. It seems it was removed against their wishes"
In response to Reply # 146
Wed Aug-24-16 01:47 PM by BigReg

  

          

and lord knows, particularly in today's era, 'unreleased' songs are par on course. And like I said before they weren't that young; this was their sophmore album after a world tour at the height of their career...I give the Beasties more of a pass because they were still refining their sound and evolved musically and theme was...this was at peak Tribe.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Aug-24-16 01:47 PM

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158. "20/21 yrs old is young regardless of their experiences to that point."
In response to Reply # 157
Wed Aug-24-16 01:52 PM by Brew

          

And you know that.


>I give the Beasties more of a pass because they were still refining >their sound and evolved musically and theme was

Dude ..... what ?! So "refining your sound" is a solid excuse for homophobia but age and time period isn't ? (To be clear: neither is an "excuse" for that type of behavior). What in the blue fuck ?

"Ahhh they were still fine tuning their sonic landscape so they can be excused for a atrociously homophobic album title"

Good god. You guys are tripping all over yourselves.

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BigReg
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Wed Aug-24-16 01:56 PM

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161. "Yeah and no. Its as much youth as experience"
In response to Reply # 158
Wed Aug-24-16 01:56 PM by BigReg

  

          

Like, id understand cause there was some five percenter shit going on and it's not hard to see Brand Nubian being an influence.

At the same time they lived in New York City (!!!). 1991 is when Magic announced he had Aids, when Freddy Mercury died. Gays still ran NYC nightlife..its not like these niggas grew up in Kentucky. On top of the fame they had would have just exposed em to just the niggas on the block, which is why I give them more sideeye then your avg corner boy at the time.

Like I have no doubt that they grew out of it...but I don't think you can just put it to youth alone...you kinda had to be willfully ignorant.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Aug-24-16 01:58 PM

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162. "Fair, I guess but ..."
In response to Reply # 161


          

>Like, id understand cause there was some five percenter shit
>going on and it's not hard to see Brand Nubian being an
>influence.
>
>At the same time they lived in New York City (!!!). 1991 is
>when Magic announced he had Aids, when Freddy Mercury died.
>Gays still ran NYC nightlife..its not like these niggas grew
>up in Kentucky. On top of the fame they had would have just
>exposed em to just the niggas on the block, which is why I
>give them more sideeye then your avg corner boy at the time.
>
>Like I have no doubt that they grew out of it...but I don't
>think you can just put it to youth alone...you kinda had to be
>willfully ignorant.

Beasties were from NYC as well weren't they ? Soooooo ... why do they get a pass ?

Agree with your last point though. Any example of a song like this includes some sort of willful ignorance, no matter where you grew up.

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BigReg
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165. "Beasties were intentional snot nosed assholes. Poster boy fratbros"
In response to Reply # 162
Wed Aug-24-16 02:10 PM by BigReg

  

          

as sad as it is; homophobia and misogyny fits right in hand with what they were trying to project...it made misguided sense, lol. Kinda like Id give NWA a pass.

Besties were also refining their sound/image and were a totally different band from that point on.

Mixing D.A.I.S.Y age shenanigans and Native Tongues positivity while making a homophobic classic is a harder thing to balance, lol.

Like I said it was at the height of their powers and when the band was fully formed musically which is why such a left turn feels forced and intentional. If we were talking people's instinctive demos id feel a bit differently, but this was Tribe at their best when they dropped this ball...thats why I find it so odd...who it came from and how many signs show that they should have known better because they were further advanced then many of their peers when it came to portraying fake street imagery.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Aug-24-16 02:15 PM

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168. "OK I see your point but context is important to both cases ..."
In response to Reply # 165
Wed Aug-24-16 02:17 PM by Brew

          

>as sad as it is; homophobia and misogyny fits right in hand
>with what they were trying to project...it made misguided
>sense, lol. Kinda like Id give NWA a pass.
>
>Besties were also refining their sound/image and were a
>totally different band from that point on.

Fine. Still doesn't "excuse" the homophobia and misogyny but explains why they were willing to "go there". But if you're willing to establish and accept context when it comes to Beasties, then ....


>Mixing D.A.I.S.Y age shenanigans and Native Tongues positivity
>while making a homophobic classic is a harder thing to
>balance, lol.
>
>Like I said it was at the height of their powers and when the
>band was fully formed musically which is why such a left turn
>feels forced and intentional. If we were talking people's
>instinctive demos id feel a bit differently, but this was
>Tribe at their best when they dropped this ball.

.... why can't you/rdhull/etc. consider the FULL context in regards to Tribe ? Sure, setting aside the FULL context of the time period and looking at this situation with 2016 eyes only, I agree that homophobia coming from an otherwise "positive" or "socially conscious" group is a strange look. But in the FULL context of the time period, even the most socially aware and righteous hip-hop folks were STILL homophobic, basically all of them. I bet if you go back and listen to early lyrics from any golden-era MC, each and every one of them, regardless of their "shticks" or "brands," spit some form of homophobic lyrics at some point. Tribe was no different. Why can't we judge them with the same lens you are willing to judge BBs with ? Why is is OK to spit homophobia on your first album but not your second ? Why is it more OK / passable to support your "brand" than it is if it, in your opinion, goes against the brand a group is out there portraying ?

In other words, Tribe came up in a time when nearly everyone was homophobic. THIS DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT. It simply provides context and explains why an otherwise socially aware group like Tribe may have had those deplorable beliefs at the time of this song's conception.

Neither is more worthy of a "pass" than the other, IMO. The word "faggot" stings and is wrong no matter the context.

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BigReg
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Wed Aug-24-16 02:34 PM

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169. "Agreed, except with one exception"
In response to Reply # 168


  

          

>In other words, Tribe came up in a time when nearly everyone
>was homophobic. THIS DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT. It simply
>provides context and explains why an otherwise socially aware
>group like Tribe may have had those deplorable beliefs at the
>time of this song's conception.
>
>Neither is more worthy of a "pass" than the other, IMO. The
>word "faggot" stings and is wrong no matter the context.

They went above and beyond with that track, nahmean? It's above and beyond the hip-hop homophobia at the time. We can make the arguement that homophobia is homophobia and that throwing in a 'fag' in a rap bar to show how tough you are is as damaging as dedicating a song to avtively hating LGBTQ

But Phife dropped some homophobic lyrics in Oh My God and we gave em a pass. Imho its less about the fact that they were homophobic, its that they set the gold standard in hip-hop for abhorrent songs dedicated to gay bashing, lol.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Aug-24-16 02:44 PM

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172. "Yea that I can agree with fully."
In response to Reply # 169


          

This song is, all things considered, one of the more offensive songs I've ever heard. It's gotta be top 3, and right now I can't even think of a more offensive song. And I'm straight. So I can only imagine how disgusted the gay community would be hearing this. Which is just about the only thing I agree with the OP about. It's disappointing for sure, and like you said, goes above and beyond your standard pre-00s homophobia of tossing a slur in one bar in a song about something else.

Just a gross song. Gross concept. Gross that one of my favorite groups made it. Hadn't heard it before yesterday and kinda wish I never had.



>They went above and beyond with that track, nahmean? It's
>above and beyond the hip-hop homophobia at the time. We can
>make the arguement that homophobia is homophobia and that
>throwing in a 'fag' in a rap bar to show how tough you are is
>as damaging as dedicating a song to avtively hating LGBTQ
>
>But Phife dropped some homophobic lyrics in Oh My God and we
>gave em a pass. Imho its less about the fact that they were
>homophobic, its that they set the gold standard in hip-hop for
>abhorrent songs dedicated to gay bashing, lol.

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
69843 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 02:47 PM

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175. "wait... cause Freddie Mercury died and Magic had HIV and NYC had gays"
In response to Reply # 161


          

this is supposed to make it more acceptable to rappers who used to hang with 5%???

that makes no damn sense.

when Magic made that announcement damn near everyone was accusing him of being gay (kissing Isaiah on the lips and shit). We were mad ignorant to HIV and didnt have any compassion over Freddie Mercuries death.

once again you guys are viewing these rappers thru a 2016 lense.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
69843 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 12:53 PM

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129. "does the apology have to be heartfelt? will a PR apology do? "
In response to Reply # 0


          

didnt we get an apology for slavery a few years ago? Did that make us sleep better at night?

Why not just stop fucking with them instead of asking for a fake ass apology so you can continue to enjoy Tribe.

once again we see our "heroes" are normal people with flaws and instead of accepting it yall demand an apology so you wont feel guilty for rocking to Electric Relaxation.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Aug-24-16 01:13 PM

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145. "...so none of you know about an apology."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

right on.

i liked the suggestion about reaching out to Ali and/or Jarobi on Twitter/IG. we'll see what happens.

fuck you.

  

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atruhead
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Wed Aug-24-16 01:17 PM

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148. "do you apologize for your views on perverts exposing themselves to kids?"
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

.

  

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rdhull
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Wed Aug-24-16 01:21 PM

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150. "stop making it seem like he is a proponent for that as a talking point"
In response to Reply # 148
Wed Aug-24-16 01:22 PM by rdhull

  

          

>....

  

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atruhead
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Wed Aug-24-16 01:54 PM

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160. "SoWhat: They said this crazy shit in 1991"
In response to Reply # 150


  

          

Me: you said this crazy shit in 2015

SoWhat: *no response*

you: stop bringing that up

  

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rdhull
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Wed Aug-24-16 02:07 PM

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163. "RE: SoWhat: They said this crazy shit in 1991"
In response to Reply # 160


  

          

>Me: you said this crazy shit in 2015
>
>SoWhat: *no response*
>
>you: stop bringing that up

because youre taking shit out of its proper context (the statement)nand you know it..or maybe couldnt understand it. Or decline to so you can attempt to use ish for leverage, to troll, or whatever

come on now, be grown

  

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atruhead
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178. "more like you cant believe buddy said something so ridiculous"
In response to Reply # 163


  

          

there *has* to be extra nuance, there's no way he really brushed off masturbating in front of children only to be mad about an unreleased gay bashing song

except that's exactly what happened.

the post is still up, you can go read it yourself

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Aug-24-16 04:55 PM

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184. "Except that isn't what happened."
In response to Reply # 178


          

He in no way advocated for men to expose themselves to children. Jesus Christ.

  

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atruhead
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Wed Aug-24-16 05:06 PM

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186. "okay, fine. let's split hairs"
In response to Reply # 184


  

          

because "I think it's okay to corrupt kids" and "I dont see anything wrong behavior that could potentially corrupt kids" are REALLY that different

below are the exact 2015 words copied and pasted from someone mad about a 1991 gay bashing song. take up for this psychopath if you want to



but i'm not overly concerned about kids seeing someone masturbate. i can't tell from your narrative if the kids could even see him. though if they could i wouldn't be too troubled - masturbation is part of life and kids either already know what it is or will know soon enough.

i think we make too big a deal of public masturbation - even in front of kids. i think we work too hard to 'protect' kids from the idea of sex not for their own good but for ours. i dunno that kids would be scarred by seeing a guy masturbate. b/c what's the big deal about masturbation? kids do it too.

i genuinely don't think public masturbation is a big deal - even if kids see it. i genuinely think we expend way too much effort attempting to 'shield' kids from sex unnecessarily. i genuinely don't believe kids will be scarred if they see a guy manipulating his penis for his own pleasure. i genuinely believe we attempt to keep kids from sex b/c we think sex is dirty and we want kids to exist as some repository of 'innocence' for OUR benefit more than for theirs. i genuinely think kids have no reason to make a big deal of sex unless WE give them reasons by panicking about it.

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Aug-24-16 05:39 PM

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189. "RE: okay, fine. let's split hairs"
In response to Reply # 186
Wed Aug-24-16 05:44 PM by soulpsychodelicyde

          

Oy. I'm sorry but his verbatim language below only underscores my point, not yours. What are you even reading? To be clear, my point is he said nothing that in any way suggests he advocates for masturbating in front of children. Point me to where he says it's a good idea or that he's in favor of it. That said, I kind of get why you're pearl-clutching -- you think that kids seeing adults masturbate corrupts them. He clearly disagrees. Fair enough. But to suggest that he's advocating for it is completely debunked by what he says. Like, it just isn't a fair assessment. You don't have to agree with his POV -- his thinking on this is super liberal/leftie/progressive, and most would disagree and take Cyren's approach (I remember the post). But to suggest that he's in favor of it is completely misrepresenting what he's saying. Worse, you took it a step further by saying that he's OK with corrupting kids? Seriously? C'mon. He never said that. In fact, his point is just the opposite -- that he thinks the impact is pretty minimal.

Like, if you're gonna have a credible go at him (a psychopath? really?), then you can't be disingenuous and try to point to shit that didn't happen. Disagree where the real disagreement is: your conflicting POVs on the impact on kids.

But beyond all that, WTF does this have to do with his original question about the Tribe song? I'm super confused by that.



>
>but i'm not overly concerned about kids seeing someone
>masturbate. i can't tell from your narrative if the kids could
>even see him. though if they could i wouldn't be too troubled
>- masturbation is part of life and kids either already know
>what it is or will know soon enough.
>
>i think we make too big a deal of public masturbation - even
>in front of kids. i think we work too hard to 'protect' kids
>from the idea of sex not for their own good but for ours. i
>dunno that kids would be scarred by seeing a guy masturbate.
>b/c what's the big deal about masturbation? kids do it too.
>
>i genuinely don't think public masturbation is a big deal -
>even if kids see it. i genuinely think we expend way too much
>effort attempting to 'shield' kids from sex unnecessarily. i
>genuinely don't believe kids will be scarred if they see a guy
>manipulating his penis for his own pleasure. i genuinely
>believe we attempt to keep kids from sex b/c we think sex is
>dirty and we want kids to exist as some repository of
>'innocence' for OUR benefit more than for theirs. i genuinely
>think kids have no reason to make a big deal of sex unless WE
>give them reasons by panicking about it.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Aug-24-16 05:48 PM

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190. "And then I went on to say I wouldn't freak out "
In response to Reply # 189
Wed Aug-24-16 05:50 PM by SoWhat

  

          

to avoid freaking out the kid. And I'd use the moment to teach the kid a lesson about private vs public activity - that activity is best done privately. Etc. it's all there in the original post. The bottom line is a kid has no reason to freak out there unless the adults around him/her freak out. So as long as the masturbator isn't touching the kid (and that one was NOT) I would not make a big deal of it in that moment. Again - it's all there. Turdbrain can try twisting it but ppl can read. Lol

fuck you.

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Aug-24-16 05:57 PM

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192. "Yeah."
In response to Reply # 190


          

Like the seemingly deliberate misrepresentation is weird.

  

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atruhead
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Wed Aug-24-16 07:09 PM

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199. "let's have kids watch porn too, it's just sex"
In response to Reply # 190


  

          

  

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atruhead
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Wed Aug-24-16 07:11 PM

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200. "let's lower the smoking age to 10, it's just tobacco"
In response to Reply # 199


  

          

  

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atruhead
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Wed Aug-24-16 07:15 PM

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201. "why shouldnt kids play with guns? as long as no one dies it's fine"
In response to Reply # 200


  

          

  

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atruhead
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Wed Aug-24-16 07:06 PM

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198. "yeah you're stretching my words and moving goalposts"
In response to Reply # 189


  

          

In 2015 he said there's nothing wrong with what most agree is foul and perverted behavior

I threw the flag on the field, you're saying Im calling him an advocate. I make money communicating and expressing myself clearly, if I wanted to say "you advocate this" I could and would have.

my official stance on SoWhat: he plays devil's advocate for horrible things, covers it up in drawn out mumbo jumbo and occasional legalese, all while finger popping himself watching people get mad, either because he's bored or he hates it here that much

now follow closely here: I threw the public masturbation flag on the field because he's 40 and being offensive, mad at what someone 6 years older than him said when he was 15

if you need me to break this down logically: at 40 you should be less prone to offending people than a rapper was when they were 21

and finally yes psychopath if you're just like "eh, not such a big deal" about behavior that winds up having people register as sex offenders

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Aug-24-16 04:24 PM

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182. "its only a penis, whats the big deal"
In response to Reply # 163


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 07:17 PM

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202. "I hate to get sidetracked...."
In response to Reply # 182
Wed Aug-24-16 07:22 PM by denny

          

But do you honestly think that having your child be amongst many other people who witness a mentally ill person masterbating in public is akin to actual molestation?

I actually agreed with the basic idea that I THINK he was saying....which is that our reaction as parents to a scenario like that is more likely to cause trauma/have negative consequences than the circumstances themselves. If we, as parents, freak out in that situation than we are signalling to the child that this is a big deal....and really, it's not.

Honestly, if I was walking my boys down a street and we witnessed some random dude jerking off....I would very calmly remove them from the situation and i really wouldn't be that upset about it. I imagine my 9 year old would say 'what was that man doing'...to which, like Sowhat said, i would use an opportunity to broach the subject of masterbation. And the message would be masterbation is perfectly normal and something that everyone does. But it's something very special that you only do when you're alone. It's something you do to give yourself pleasure because it feels really good. So the mistake that the man had made was that he was doing something out in public that should be done in privacy. I would also point out that the man probably has a mental illness....and that the mental illness sometimes makes people forget to follow the rules that everybody else does. I would stress that what the man was doing was perfectly natural....that I do it too....that you will also do it eventually....and that there's nothing wrong with it but it should be done in privacy.

I really don't see any potential for trauma or anything like that because of that scenario as long as the parents don't respond in a needlessly melo-dramatic way.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Thu Aug-25-16 09:07 AM

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212. "no disrespect but I'm not surprised one bit you would think this way"
In response to Reply # 202


          

i dont agree with some of your parenting choices so I will just agree to disagree.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Anonymous
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Wed Aug-24-16 02:11 PM

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167. "Tribe doesn't owe you shit bro "
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

  

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justin_scott
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Wed Aug-24-16 02:46 PM

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174. "they might not owe you shit"
In response to Reply # 167


          

but gay men and women, who might be affected by this song, yes, they owe them a simple apology. why is that so hard? there is no reason that Tip couldn't tweet "I was a part of this song, and i'm sorry i was." Simple. Real men/women can admit their faults and apologize for them.

************************************************************

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Aug-24-16 02:51 PM

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176. "this is Trump's America."
In response to Reply # 174


  

          

the folks in here pushing back are really pushing back against all the GAINS us gays have made on 'em.

and also they're pushing back against ME b/c i've been merciless on plenty of them as i've ridiculed their foolishness over the years.

this ain't even about Tribe, really.

fuck you.

  

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atruhead
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Wed Aug-24-16 03:15 PM

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179. "I dont know if you're a troll or a liar, they run hand in hand"
In response to Reply # 176


  

          

>the folks in here pushing back are really pushing back
>against all the GAINS us gays have made on 'em.

my stances on gay equality are pretty well documented. I never stood for Case One trolling and called him out on it numerous times

>and also they're pushing back against ME b/c i've been
>merciless on plenty of them as i've ridiculed their
>foolishness over the years.

I have 0 fucks to give about whatever you think is ridiculing me

>this ain't even about Tribe, really.

except it is. If you didnt use a 1991 incident to completely shit on an act we hold near and dear, none of this would have happened. it's called accountability "Fuck Tribe", "Im glad Phife is dead" these are things typed by you, which is why you got personal backlash.

you did the same trolling bullshit when Dilla died only to finally see the light and understand when Michael Jackson was no longer amongst the living.

  

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Anonymous
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Wed Aug-24-16 04:39 PM

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183. "How do you know he hasn't admitted his faults?"
In response to Reply # 174
Wed Aug-24-16 04:42 PM by Anonymous

  

          

He may have spoken to people he's close to.

Who says he needs to apologize directly to SoWhat?

And honestly, Tip can feel any kind of way he wants. Maybe he stands by the song.

Then what?

SoWhat is up in here demanding that Tribe apologizes for recording a song which he feels until they do, represents their belief. What if Tribe wants him to apologize for his beliefs?

People offend me every day with their dumb ass beliefs...I don't need a fucking apology. I simply state how I feel or ignore it and then keep it moving.

You see how this shit works?

  

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SooperEgo
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Wed Aug-24-16 01:32 PM

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153. "has Ice Cube ever apologized to the jews?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

he popped alotta shit that you would think woulda got him banned from hollywood

  

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rdhull
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Wed Aug-24-16 01:39 PM

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156. "if Kosher Sam was mad I'd understand"
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

>he popped alotta shit that you would think woulda got him
>banned from hollywood
>
>

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
69843 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 01:53 PM

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159. "money trumps apologies"
In response to Reply # 153


          

he paid for his sins

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
43341 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 04:58 PM

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185. "Well, he only really popped shit at Jerry Heller"
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

And even Heller later said he didn't really think Cube was being anti-semetic, he was just young and dumb at the time. They still don't like each other much though. And Heller still sued Cube and Dre and Tomica over the movie.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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81 DUN
Member since Feb 10th 2009
1589 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 02:41 PM

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170. "Has Eddie Murphy apologized for Raw or Delirious?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
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Wed Aug-24-16 02:45 PM

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173. "yes."
In response to Reply # 170


  

          

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/PAGE-ONE-After-15-Years-Actor-Apologizes-For-2982557.php

fuck you.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
21123 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 03:02 PM

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177. "rdhull ! flipnile ! Get the fuck over here !!"
In response to Reply # 173


          

>Murphy said he was young and "misinformed" back then. Referring >specifically to his 1981 HBO special called "Delirious," Murphy >said, "Just like the rest of the world, I am more educated about >AIDS in 1996 than I was in 1981. I think it is unfair to take the >words of a misinformed 21-year-old and apply them to an informed 35->year- old man.

I realize the Tribe situation still deserves some sort of apology / recognition from the group but still.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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rdhull
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Wed Aug-24-16 06:11 PM

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194. "he still gets side-eyed..his ish wasnt just about aids ignorance"
In response to Reply # 177


  

          

It was about degrading gay people because they were gay



>>Murphy said he was young and "misinformed" back then.
>Referring >specifically to his 1981 HBO special called
>"Delirious," Murphy >said, "Just like the rest of the world, I
>am more educated about >AIDS in 1996 than I was in 1981. I
>think it is unfair to take the >words of a misinformed
>21-year-old and apply them to an informed 35->year- old man.
>
>I realize the Tribe situation still deserves some sort of
>apology / recognition from the group but still.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
21123 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 06:26 PM

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195. "Maybe you missed my point."
In response to Reply # 194


          

>I think it is unfair to take the words of a misinformed 21-year-old >and apply them to an informed 35-year-old man.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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rdhull
Charter member
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Wed Aug-24-16 06:49 PM

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197. "no..but maybe you missed mine"
In response to Reply # 195


  

          

>>I think it is unfair to take the words of a misinformed
>21-year-old >and apply them to an informed 35-year-old man.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
21123 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 09:32 PM

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206. "Yea, ya did. It's cool."
In response to Reply # 197


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mynoriti
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Wed Aug-24-16 03:28 PM

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180. "I actually never heard it, or heard of it until now "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I clicked on this wondering what Tribe had to do with that Mc Lyte track

So yeah, nothing to contribute

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 03:29 PM

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181. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 180


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
7280 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 05:25 PM

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187. "Have none of you ever apolgized for old shit??"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Aug-24-16 05:28 PM by Crash85

  

          

Seriously? I can't say I've apologized for some 25 year old shit... But that's because I'm 30... Give me another 15 years and I'm sure I will... I have definitely apologized for some 10 year old shit... Ran into this guy a couple years back at a bar and he told me I had said some fucked up shit to him in junior high, which I didn't even remember... He said he had never forgot that I said this to him and it really affected him after... He let me know he wasn't mad at me and was past it... Like I said, I had no idea... But I knew when I was younger, I talked crazy shit...to everyone... and fought a lot of people over it... This guy and I had seen each other numerous times at bars and restaurants after we were 21... As far as I knew, we were cool... Then one night at a bar he told me what I had said to him... Even though he said he was past it and acknowledged that we were kids, I still apologized, and meant it... Kids/young adults don't understand the power of their words, but as you mature, you can still take responsibility for your wrongs and try to make amends...


EDIT: Shouldn't have said "none"... I meant this for the people that think an apology is unnecessary...

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
21882 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 05:33 PM

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188. "this is a weird fucking post man. especially since a lot of us are POC"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

you cant connect the goddamned dognut dots?





***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
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Wed Aug-24-16 05:50 PM

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191. "plenty of these ppl were ready to hang Eminem bc of his racial slurs. Lo..."
In response to Reply # 188


  

          

This shit is about ME. And fatigue over the way us gays have come up on the come up. We GAININ and they mad about it.

fuck you.

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
21882 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 06:06 PM

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193. "the lack of empathy and short sidedness is appalling. "
In response to Reply # 191


  

          

like...just be ok with being wrong and keep it moving.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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atruhead
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85005 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 07:26 PM

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203. "it's disingenuous trolling"
In response to Reply # 188


  

          

it started yesterday in The Lesson and traveled here

it has all of the ingredients for the perfect storm of fuckery:
1) a bored person
2) a bored person who finds a reason to offend people on OKP
3) said reason having something to do with a thing site visitors worship
4) victim playing after people lash out

I promise it has nothing to do with a gay bashing song and everything to do with trying to rile people up (Fuck them, fuck yall, Im glad the guy you love is dead etc.)

maybe he needs to feel there's some personal vendetta, but nah he's being an asshole and people are telling him so

  

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Government Name
Member since Dec 16th 2005
23189 posts
Thu Aug-25-16 08:57 AM

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210. "why do you assume all this? outside of not liking So What? "
In response to Reply # 203


  

          

i didnt get this vibe at all.

________
http://twitter.com/aehorton
http://instagram.com/aehorton

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
13360 posts
Thu Aug-25-16 10:40 AM

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219. "Alotta that comes from him making this same post in The Lesson."
In response to Reply # 210


          

He cleaned it up a bit for GD

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2971418&mesg_id=2971418&page=

~
~
~
~
~
"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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atruhead
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Thu Aug-25-16 09:07 PM

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224. "I dont know him to dislike him "
In response to Reply # 210


  

          

I dont like when people trying to sell me bullshit though and dude is good for that

  

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The Wordsmith
Member since Aug 13th 2002
17060 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 07:30 PM

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204. "Wait a minute. Didn't some of y'all make excuses...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

....for '60s/'70s artists messing with young teenaged girls back in the day? On some 'it was normal in that era ' tip? If so, this post is hypocritical.



Since 1976

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
69843 posts
Wed Aug-24-16 09:38 PM

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207. "lol"
In response to Reply # 204


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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BigReg
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Thu Aug-25-16 09:14 AM

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213. "now this would be a pertinent point,"
In response to Reply # 204


  

          

as opposed to the hatchet strawman job above.

However, id say it still was different. Ive heard gay slurs hundreds of times in hip-hop songs, but only one time have I heard a song completely dedicated to hating on the gays and it was Tribe, the happy negros. This was above and beyond what was seen as acceptable as the time...hence why the label blocked it.

Its not like you expect Redman to come with a Supaman lover remix where he dedicates 3 verses to flying around beating up gay people with bats.

Its like someone in the 70's 80's not just fucking underage groupies, but making it a point ONLY to fuck underage groupies (although sadly enough typing that out, Its probably not hard to find dudes only doing that)

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
13360 posts
Thu Aug-25-16 09:17 AM

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215. "Yeah, you might wanna stop trying to justify that view..."
In response to Reply # 213


          

>as opposed to the hatchet strawman job above.
>
>However, id say it still was different. Ive heard gay slurs
>hundreds of times in hip-hop songs, but only one time have I
>heard a song completely dedicated to hating on the gays and it
>was Tribe, the happy negros. This was above and beyond what
>was seen as acceptable as the time...hence why the label
>blocked it.
>
>Its not like you expect Redman to come with a Supaman lover
>remix where he dedicates 3 verses to flying around beating up
>gay people with bats.
>
>Its like someone in the 70's 80's not just fucking underage
>groupies, but making it a point ONLY to fuck underage groupies
>(although sadly enough typing that out, Its probably not hard
>to find dudes only doing that)

~
~
~
~
~
"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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BigReg
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Fri Aug-26-16 08:30 AM

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230. "Nope. THATS LETTING THE TERRORRISTS WIN (c)"
In response to Reply # 215


  

          

it's all about debate, rational thinking and possibly nuance.

Because if that's the case; Prince, Marvin Gaye and David Bowie are AS big pieces of shit as R. Kelly (which we could def. make an argument for too, to be honest)

  

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rdhull
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Thu Aug-25-16 09:03 AM

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211. "props to Toto and Cheryl Lynn on theirs though"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Big Kuntry
Member since May 09th 2010
14866 posts
Thu Aug-25-16 12:32 PM

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222. "these are ya'll heroes"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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ShinobiShaw
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48533 posts
Thu Aug-25-16 01:21 PM

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223. ""It was the 70's!" (c) H.Burress"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://soundcloud.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://twitter.com/DJShinobiShaw
https://twitter.com/RareFormNYC
PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c)T510

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
16481 posts
Thu Aug-25-16 10:32 PM

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225. "Funkadelic - Jimmy's Got A Little Bit Of Bitch In Him"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Album: Standing on the Verge of Getting It On
Released: 1974 (RELEASED...not reworked)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WdSSy7hBYk

In the Lesson I once (within a few years) asked about the current-day reaction to his song, and it was thoroughly excused by some of the folks in this post arguing against tribe

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Thu Aug-25-16 11:28 PM

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226. "Here's the lyrics:"
In response to Reply # 225
Thu Aug-25-16 11:33 PM by denny

          

Jimmy's got a little bit of bitch in him
The bitch in him
Upsets the Jim
Jimmy's got a little bit of bitch in him
The bitch in him
Outweighs the Jim
Jimmy's got a little bit of she in he
But when he pee, he see

Reality can be a-stiff sometimes
But then again it can be flexible
Depending on the angle of the dangle
Increased by the heat of the meat
And with the proposition that all men are not created equal
So why frown?
Yeah, even the sun go down
We'll call it mixed emotions for now
Play on, Jimmy
Jimmy's got a little bit of bitch in him
The bitch in him
Upsets the Jim
Jimmy's got a little bit of bitch in him
The bitch in him
Outweighs the Jim
Jimmy's got a little bit of she in he
But when he pee, he see

Reality can be a-hard
But then again it can be a-swinging
Like I said, depending on the angle of the dangle
Increased by the heat of the meat
And with the proposition that all men are not created equal
So why frown?
Even the sun go down
We'll call it mixed emotions for now

Jimmy's got a little bit of bitch in him
The bitch in him
Upsets the Jim
Jimmy's got a little bit of bitch in him
The bitch in him
Outweighs the Jim


My first impression and the most relevant point.....is that this lyric doesn't even come CLOSE to the derogatory nature of Georgie Peorgie. In fact...I'm not even sure this Funkadelic song is derogatory or mean-spirited at all. There's an interesting discussion to be had there though. I haven't thoroughly analyzed it...but there might even be a contention that the song is not a critique of Jim but rather a critique of social norms. ie 'Reality can be a-stiff sometimes But then again it can be flexible'. I'm not completely convinced one way or the other yet....but I think there's an argument that the Funkadelic song might even be gay/trans-positive. You could read it as a 'let your freak flag fly' type of message. (Play on, Jimmy)

I'm interested to see what other people think....but the more I read the lyrics, the more I think that this song might even be way ahead of it's time in specific relation to queer theory.

One thing's for sure....there is a HUGE difference between this song and Georgie Peorgie.

  

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rdhull
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Thu Aug-25-16 11:35 PM

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227. "RE: Here's the lyrics:"
In response to Reply # 226


  

          

>Jimmy's got a little bit of bitch in him
>The bitch in him
>Upsets the Jim
>Jimmy's got a little bit of bitch in him
>The bitch in him
>Outweighs the Jim
>Jimmy's got a little bit of she in he
>But when he pee, he see
>
>Reality can be a-stiff sometimes
>But then again it can be flexible
>Depending on the angle of the dangle
>Increased by the heat of the meat
>And with the proposition that all men are not created equal
>So why frown?
>Yeah, even the sun go down
>We'll call it mixed emotions for now
>Play on, Jimmy
>Jimmy's got a little bit of bitch in him
>The bitch in him
>Upsets the Jim
>Jimmy's got a little bit of bitch in him
>The bitch in him
>Outweighs the Jim
>Jimmy's got a little bit of she in he
>But when he pee, he see
>
>Reality can be a-hard
>But then again it can be a-swinging
>Like I said, depending on the angle of the dangle
>Increased by the heat of the meat
>And with the proposition that all men are not created equal
>So why frown?
>Even the sun go down
>We'll call it mixed emotions for now
>
>Jimmy's got a little bit of bitch in him
>The bitch in him
>Upsets the Jim
>Jimmy's got a little bit of bitch in him
>The bitch in him
>Outweighs the Jim
>
>
>My first impression and the most relevant point.....is that
>this lyric doesn't even come CLOSE to the derogatory nature of
>Georgie Peorgie. In fact...I'm not even sure this Funkadelic
>song is derogatory or mean-spirited at all. There's an
>interesting discussion to be had there though. I haven't
>thoroughly analyzed it...but there might even be a contention
>that the song is not a critique of Jim but rather a critique
>of social norms. ie 'Reality can be a-stiff sometimes But
>then again it can be flexible'. I'm not completely convinced
>one way or the other yet....but I think there's an argument
>that the Funkadelic song might even be gay/trans-positive.
>You could read it as a 'let your freak flag fly' type of
>message. (Play on, Jimmy)
>
>I'm interested to see what other people think....but the more
>I read the lyrics, the more I think that this song might even
>be way ahead of it's time in specific relation to queer
>theory.
>
>One thing's for sure....there is a HUGE difference between
>this song and Georgie Peorgie.

I think it's in the vein of Lola and Honky Tonk Women

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
16481 posts
Fri Aug-26-16 12:20 PM

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231. "thank you denny"
In response to Reply # 226


          

general commentary(off topic for a sec):

thanks for not being part of the problem (with me at least).

every engagement I have had with you, you have been thoughtful, well reasoned and civil. you don't go lowest common denominator and rant and rave and throw e-tantrums. you make your points, and when you disagree you do it without forgetting there is an actual person - worthy of respect on a basic human level - without being condescending, or petty about it. you don't lower yourself, even when everyone else is doing it. you aren't so punch-drunk that you think every comment is an attempt at a gotcha moment and swing all wild to defend yourself (or your cause) when it's unnecessary. you actually do dialog, and not soundbites. that is rare here these days

i sincerely appreciate that. stay gold ponyboy.

now...onto the post

>My first impression and the most relevant point.....is that
>this lyric doesn't even come CLOSE to the derogatory nature of
>Georgie Peorgie. In fact...I'm not even sure this Funkadelic
>song is derogatory or mean-spirited at all.

Note: I made no assertion that this was akin to GP (which, by the way, isn't some pearl-clutching shock 20+ years later because I have actually have been a tribe fan since "Buddy" and actively listen to their songs, b-sides, bootlegs, and all).

I also didn't say Jimmy was derogatory (or anything else one way or the other), because I wanted to discuss it in the context *OF* the GP discussion.

i think this entire post is a shameful mess. In my opinion, it doesn't speak well of most of the frequent posters within. But, it isn't surprising either. Rather than jump into the crapfest and start slinging, I wanted to try and juxtapose it with another song that - when you listen casually *might* be mistaken as something it isn't. You took the time to post the lyrics so we can see, parse, and analyze. Thank you for helping the post - or at least the sub-thread - to move forward in a "lets build" way (back when we use to actually have that as a goal with these interactions)

The reference to the previous lesson post - where I mistakenly thought the "music analysts" would be willing to actually analyze the song - fell flat and into "it ain't bad" without any real discussion of why. My actual thought this time wasn't "gotcha" but that songs from/by straight people about their views on sexual preferences and gender definition have been around a long time. We could do an entire post on how within "black music" there have been songs all over the opinion spectrum (yes - some even worse than GP). Sadly but honestly - I am more and more convinced that OKP as a whole is really into *discussing* much of anything anymore. I referenced those who responded before (not by name, lest they feel attacked) HOPING this could be a chance to actually discourse this time with them on the differences, if they remembered. or maybe with others if they were just down to try. hope springs eternal that maybe this isn't 100%, but "know your audience" is very much a real thing. "Why you didn't say all that before?" Because it wiser to test and see if it's worth bothering with before typing and just getting cosigns or drama back - let others share their analysis then dialog.

>There's an
>interesting discussion to be had there though.

Again, I hoped someone else would think so, hence the post about it

>I haven't
>thoroughly analyzed it...but there might even be a contention
>that the song is not a critique of Jim but rather a critique
>of social norms. i.e. 'Reality can be a-stiff sometimes But
>then again it can be flexible'.

don't skip verse one though, cuz it helps set up verse 2

"Jimmy's got a little bit of bitch in him
The bitch in him
Upsets the Jim"

paraphrase - jimmy is bothered by the "bitch in him"

what does that mean?

does it mean he is effeminate (phrase used = historical perspective of the time) and doesn't like that about himself?

how come the equation of femininity (if that is what it is) is equated with a pretty traditionally derogatory term "bitch". why does that get a pass? should it? or have we just gotten to the point where that term has been neutered into a compliment and we can remove it from its original context?

"Jimmy's got a little bit of bitch in him
The bitch in him
Outweighs the Jim"

paraphrase - his femininity is more prevalent than ("outweighs") his masculinity, or alternately, just is the dominant aspect of his personality

this part seems to be a support for the first part mailny showing the degree of Jim's issue

"Jimmy's got a little bit of she in he
But when he pee, he see"

paraphrase - this part is interesting because it *could* be introducing an actual physical characteristic ("when he pee, he see") is jimmy a hermaphrodite, is jimmy actually someone with the genitalia of a woman, who is presenting themselves as a man?

not really clear

but, again, it shows that Jimmy's issue isn't just in Jimmmy's mind but also spreads to *his* view of his body

now. looking at verse two we have the perspective of the singer which is essentially "it ain't all black and white, do whatever you want" which is a sentiment whch pretty much fits within the general philosophy of the group

the interesting thing is that, the singer's view notwithstanding, their is still tension within Jimmy because the rest of the world doesn't necessarily play that game (reality can be a stiff/hard sometimes)

>I'm not completely convinced
>one way or the other yet....but I think there's an argument
>that the Funkadelic song might even be gay/trans-positive.
>You could read it as a 'let your freak flag fly' type of
>message. (Play on, Jimmy)

agreed, but there is still a weird undercurrent of uncomfortability (or maybe non-full-acceptance) in the reference to the issue as some seemingly invasive and unwelcomed "other"-ness that's "in him"

to a degree it kinda plays both sides

>I'm interested to see what other people think....but the more
>I read the lyrics, the more I think that this song might even
>be way ahead of it's time in specific relation to queer
>theory.

maybe. maybe not. i don't think so though. i think folks like to consider themselves as "progressive" and some kind of trailblazing vanguards of whatever-ness, but the deeper you dig the more likely you are to find that there really isn't anything new. that attitudes and prevailing philosophies just cycle in a pendulum swinging kind of way

>One thing's for sure....there is a HUGE difference between
>this song and Georgie Peorgie.

and it was never stated otherwise. as much as we talk about "critical thought" basic application of that would make that assertion moot relative to anything *I* said

thanks again for being decent

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
13360 posts
Fri Aug-26-16 02:02 AM

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228. "Your alignment of these two songs says a lot about your view of"
In response to Reply # 225


          

homosexuality,
because this isn't even an apt comparison.

~
~
~
~
~
"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Aug-26-16 08:26 AM

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229. "Youre trying too hard."
In response to Reply # 225


  

          

denny nailed it so I don't have to.

fuck you.

  

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atruhead
Charter member
85005 posts
Tue Nov-01-16 12:55 PM

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232. "mods: can we anchor this so he can have his pity party here?"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Nov-01-16 01:12 PM by atruhead

  

          

.

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Tue Nov-01-16 01:41 PM

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233. "i was clear but i'll reiterate:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i am (was?) a big fan of Tribe. i'm also gay as a motherfucker.

learning that the group has this song in their background really hurt. i remain thoroughly disappointed that the group would record this filth AND that the only reason it was withheld from release is b/c the label, Jive, insisted on it. Tribe was ready to go full steam ahead w/releasing this mess on The Low End Theory.

anyway, i want to know whether the group has addressed it in a statement or an interview or a song lyric...SOMETHING. so far i've found nothing. i posted it here b/c OKP has some in touch folks who might have this info. and/or OKP has some connected ppl who might be able to get to Tribe or their ppl and find out what's up. that's all that's going on here. nothing more nothing less.

so if you know som'n let me know.

the rest of the hubbub in here is bullshit i couldn't care less about. the point is i wanna know if Tribe has addressed that 'GP' mess.

fuck you.

  

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atruhead
Charter member
85005 posts
Tue Nov-01-16 03:13 PM

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235. "it's just a song."
In response to Reply # 233


  

          

by your logic: perverts exposing themselves to kids is "just a penis"

it's just rap lyrics

  

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atruhead
Charter member
85005 posts
Tue Nov-01-16 03:01 PM

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234. "someone please give him an answer"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

his life wont go on until he finds out if rappers we love addressed controversial unreleased lyrics from 1991

Despite being glad Phife died, SoWhat isnt trying to shit on our excitement and upset us. he just needs this addressed that badly

please address it, make this unearthed story go viral. please do something

  

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