I mean... she's got a surgically constructed hymen doesn't she?

WHO DOESN'T WANT TO BE FIRST IN LINE?

Poll result (20 votes) I'd smash. (1 votes) Vote SO MUCH VOMITING (7 votes) Vote Becky from Bruce is Better (1 votes) Vote Why. WHY. WHY ARE DOING THIS TO US?!? (11 votes) Vote

>I mean... she's got a surgically constructed hymen doesn't
>she?

no.

but cook on, bro.

*whispering*...plus, she likes women. she's a lesbian.

fuck you.

DO I?!?!

THIS POST IS NOT ABOUT PROPER MEDICINE OR SCIENCE

...actually i have no idea what this post is about.

I need to spend some time in meditation.

There's so much wrong.

is probably virgin-tight. unless Bruce was down w/pegging. which i doubt.

fuck you.

>*whispering*...plus, she likes women. she's a lesbian.

Even though I know intellectually that gender and sexuality are not linked ... I just feel so confused. If *I* decided to trans into a guy, *I* would want to date girls. But I guess that means I am heterosexual regardless of my gender.

♥ Inescapably Me ♥

"Love is never any better than the lover" Toni Morrison (The Bluest Eye)

fuck you.

♥ Inescapably Me ♥

"Love is never any better than the lover" Toni Morrison (The Bluest Eye)

i think that's the common story w/trans ppl.

i dunno why you think you'd suddenly like women if you transitioned. but i also don't know why you'd transition. unless there's something else you're not telling.

but at least as related to Caitlyn...the decision to transition didn't just come up suddenly on a lark. it's not a whim. she says it's an issue w/which she struggled for her entire adult life and for much of her childhood. the whole time she lived as a man she had this need to live as a woman but she lacked the courage to go for it. she's now found it. i've heard similar stories from other trans.

anyway, the transgender thing isn't necessarily related to sexual orientation. the transition from one gender to another doesn't necessarily include a change in the gender of romantic conquests.

fuck you.

would do in a situation when I have never been in that situation.

♥ Inescapably Me ♥

"Love is never any better than the lover" Toni Morrison (The Bluest Eye)

fuck you.

this might go poast.

she doesn't plan to have 'bottom surgery'....

http://www.eonline.com/news/662023/caitlyn-jenner-on-not-undergoing-genital-surgery-if-you-have-a-list-of-10-reasons-to-transition-sex-would-be-number-10

fuck you.

http://bossip.com/1196851/double-take-10-absolutely-stunning-trans-women/

which confuses and complicates this issue concerning gender

And Jenner says he doesn't want to date men or *lesbians*...but straight women?

And honestly speaking, I don't think Caitlyn looks good at all...he still looks like a man in drag


>I mean... she's got a surgically constructed hymen doesn't
>she?
>
>WHO DOESN'T WANT TO BE FIRST IN LINE?
>
>

grassrootsphilosopher

>which confuses and complicates this issue concerning gender

no, it doesn't.

she's a trans woman w/a penis. she's not the only one.

>And Jenner says he doesn't want to date men or
>*lesbians*...but straight women?

oh okay. she might be able to find str8 women who are into trans women. they're out there...few in number probably. but they're out there.

>And honestly speaking, I don't think Caitlyn looks good at
>all...he still looks like a man in drag

then don't bang her. *shrugs*

fuck you.

>>which confuses and complicates this issue concerning gender
>
>no, it doesn't.

Speak for yourself...
>
>she's a trans woman w/a penis. she's not the only one.

Oh, I know...I see them walking down peachtree late at night
>
>>And Jenner says he doesn't want to date men or
>>*lesbians*...but straight women?
>
>oh okay. she might be able to find str8 women who are into
>trans women. they're out there...few in number probably. but
>they're out there.

Yeah right
>
>>And honestly speaking, I don't think Caitlyn looks good at
>>all...he still looks like a man in drag
>
>then don't bang her. *shrugs*

Oh trust me, I won't
>

grassrootsphilosopher

>Speak for yourself...

i understand the confusion. it's incredibly easy to manage if one simply follows the trans person's lead.

Caitlyn has asked us to refer to her as 'she'. so do it. SIMPLE. not doing it makes you an asshole. which i'm sure is okay w/you.

fuck you.

but Rachel Dolezal is called crazy for self-identifying as blk?


>>Speak for yourself...
>
>i understand the confusion. it's incredibly easy to manage if
>one simply follows the trans person's lead.

That doesn't make it easier, sorry...I"ve heard from and spoken w/many women since this became a newsstory and the question(s) coming from these women is how can he know what it feels like to be a woman when he wasn't born a woman? And what does that even mean that he feels like he was born a woman? He will never have a menstrual cycle or be able to have a baby...


refer to her as 'she'. so do it.
>SIMPLE. not doing it makes you an asshole. which i'm sure is
>okay w/you.

Oh I'm fine...because I'm not being PC abt this unlike so many ppl who are just as confused abt this as I am
>

grassrootsphilosopher

>but Rachel Dolezal is called crazy for self-identifying as
>blk?

race != gender

>That doesn't make it easier, sorry...

it does. again...it's only difficult if one wants to be a jerk.

fuck you.

>>but Rachel Dolezal is called crazy for self-identifying as
>>blk?
>
>race != gender
>
>>That doesn't make it easier, sorry...
>
>it does. again...it's only difficult if one wants to be a
>jerk.

It's difficult because it's out of most ppl's usual life experience...I'm sure it's still difficult for his daughters/other family members to accept that their dad is. now a transgender woman...

grassrootsphilosopher

fuck you.

What the hell kinda comparison was that, bruh??

*Nick Young face*

http://soundcloud.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://twitter.com/DJShinobiShaw
https://twitter.com/RareFormNYC
PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c)T510

Some of yall are just determined to be basic, huh?

>but Rachel Dolezal is called crazy for self-identifying as
>blk?

is a nutcase

I'm still waiting




thee of yall are jborndetermined to be basic, huh?
>
>>but Rachel Dolezal is called crazy for self-identifying as
>>blk?
>
>

grassrootsphilosopher

if Caitlyn and Rachel are the same but are received differently...so what?

are you actually advocating for Rachel? or do you have some other motive?

b/c it feels like you're trying to prove some point. what happens if you're successful? what's your end goal?

fuck you.

(c) Pimp C

>Oh, I know...I see them walking down peachtree late at night

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

>(c) Pimp C
>
>>Oh, I know...I see them walking down peachtree late at night
>
>---------------------------
>
>"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the
>peace when we were getting laid out?
>Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances?
>Where is the peace then?
>They don't want to call for peace then.

grassrootsphilosopher

>>And Jenner says he doesn't want to date men or
>>*lesbians*...but straight women?
>
>oh okay. she might be able to find str8 women who are into
>trans women. they're out there...few in number probably. but
>they're out there.
Wouldn't they be lesbians too? Because those women would be trying to date trans women, but they're still women?

That's the only thing that gets on my nerves with this. Caitlyn can do what she wants, but don't start saying dumb shit like call me a woman, treat me like a woman, I like ONLY women, but I'm not gay...c'mon son. OWN what you are...she's a trans-gendered lesbian...so be it. Stop trying to make stupid stipulations

ideally she shouldn't make public statements until she's a few more miles down the road and has figured herself out a bit more.

like back when i was 17 i thought i wasn't gay though i'd had several crushes on dudes. i thought they were isolated incidents. and then i after i accepted that i like dudes i still thought i wasn't 'gay' b/c i wasn't like the 'gay' dudes i saw on tv and in movies. and i wasn't as effeminate as the dudes ppl called 'gay' in my high school. and then i thought maybe i was bisexual b/c i had dated and messed around w/girls. it took a few yrs b4 i became comfortable w/the 'gay' thing. i settled on that label b/c it's easier than explaining the fluidity of sexuality in general and of mine in particular.

so maybe in a few yrs Caitlyn will identify as a lesbian. but maybe she won't. i dunno. but as of now i suspect she's not into calling herself a lesbian and doesn't want to date lesbians b/c she doesn't yet want to be part of the 'lesbian community' and maybe she doesn't see herself living the 'lesbian lifestyle' as she knows it today. it could be that she needs more exposure to lesbians to appreciate the wide-range of lesbian identity and to find her place in it. i dunno.

but whatever, i give her a pass on that b/c i think i've been where she is now. if she doesn't identify as a lesbian then she's not a lesbian. if/when she changes her stance that's fine. if she doesn't that's okay too. as long as she's not tormented about her sexual orientation i think it's all good.

fuck you.

fuck you.

nevermind

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

Breathe through your nose every once Ina while too

>Breathe through your nose every once Ina while too

grassrootsphilosopher

Feels great

In 2015

the issue is only confusing when one tries to be an ass about it.

fuck you.

You can self identify as you see fit, that's your right.

However... everyone else can identify you as they see fit, that's their right as well.

You want to identify as "Pookie" and tell everyone to call you that, fine... But folks still have the right to call you Cornelius if they reject calling you by your "street name".

You want to identify as the opposite sex, well... good for you.
However, if someone doesn't accept that, guess what? They don't have to.

The reality you hold for yourself doesn't transfer to everyone else around you. You have a right to it, but the next person doesn't have to acknowledge it for any reason.

You personal reality is just that: Yours. The remaining 6-7 billion people on this planet are not obligated to entertain it.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

Caitlyn identifies as a woman and prefers to use feminine pronouns.
if one wants to be respectful of her then one will simply refer to her as she has asked.

period.

fuck you.

>Caitlyn identifies as a woman and prefers to use feminine
>pronouns.
>if one wants to be respectful of her then one will simply
>refer to her as she has asked.

You can say "you're being an ass if you don't", but guess what? We STILL don't have to.

Nothing you've said in any thread broaching the subject *requires* anyone to refer to Bruce Jenner as Caitlyn or "he" as "she". We're still free to identify as we see fit.

Any time I go to one of the Pro's Ranch Markets out here and order food, they ask got my name. I tell them "George". 10 minutes later I hear them calling for "Jorge" to pick up food. I sit there. They keep calling for "Jorge" and eventually the chick that took my order comes out from behind the counter to get me. "We call your name Jorge but you don't come". I tell them my name is "George", not "Jorge" and since they didn't call my name as I asked them to say it, I didn't come to get my shit.

The same shit happens pretty much every time I go to Cancun or Riveria Maya. I have an entire country of people that utterly refuse to call me "George" and guess what???

They don't have to.

As far as they're concerned, "Jorge" and "George" are interchangeable, and their version is the right way to say it.

These days I just deal with it: To most Mexicans here in the States and pretty much everyone in Mexico, I'm Jorge. Fuck it...


Same for Bruce/Caitlyn: There are going to be huge populations of this planet that will never accept "Caitlyn", and they are still under no obligation to do so.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

But that's what we're doing.

fuck you.

... to conform to your way of viewing things. That's really what this is coming down to.

"Bruce"
"Naw, she prefers Caitlyn and SHE'S a woman"
"FOH nigga, HE has a dick, das a mayne there"
"Naw, you're just being a jerk"
"yeah son, you're being an asshole towards her"
"SHE nigga, SHE, and breathe through your nose sometime"
"WTF??? Aiight, Caitlyn is a woman..."

But whether you want to call someone an asshole or a jerk still doesn't mandate that they conform to your expectations and address someone in the manner you want them to or that they wish.


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

fuck you.

repeatedly saying someone is a jerk/asshole/mouth breather because they don't conform to your viewpoint is pretty much a weak attempt at shaming them.

That you cannot offer a compelling argument to the contrary is telling.

And that your next keystrokes will likely be something along the lines of "I'm going to get into this argument with you" or something along those lines is even more telling.


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

fuck you.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

>... to conform to your way of viewing things. That's really
>what this is coming down to.
>
>"Bruce"
>"Naw, she prefers Caitlyn and SHE'S a woman"
>"FOH nigga, HE has a dick, das a mayne there"
>"Naw, you're just being a jerk"
>"yeah son, you're being an asshole towards her"
>"SHE nigga, SHE, and breathe through your nose sometime"
>"WTF??? Aiight, Caitlyn is a woman..."
>
>But whether you want to call someone an asshole or a jerk
>still doesn't mandate that they conform to your expectations
>and address someone in the manner you want them to or that
>they wish.

Cosign. This is so annoying and these same people don't realize what they are doing to the world. We're gonna be in a really confusing world 20 years from. It's already gotten really confusing and weird but later it will be worse.

I'm for truth no matter who tells it. I'm for justice no matter who it's for or against. - el Hajj Malik el Shabazz

today that you think will be worse in 20 yrs?

if you engage in misgendering, what's your goal?

fuck you.

and refer to a person by their sex.

SoWhat... Are you willing to fuck around with a transman that still has a pussy if you find that transman attractive?

this question is pertinent to the subject at hand.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

>SoWhat... Are you willing to fuck around with a transman that
>still has a pussy if you find that transman attractive?

Yup. I've been attracted to a few guys with pies. A guy having a vagina is not necessarily a dealbreaker.

However, I would not get with a trans woman who has a penis. Bc she's a woman and I'm not into women. The trans man with a vagina is a man so he might have a shot all things considered.

>this question is pertinent to the subject at hand.

How?

And again - what do you gain by misgendering a trans person? What do you lose if you refer to them as they request?

fuck you.

yes, you are free to identify someone however you want to.

If someone has indicated that they want to be called Pookie, or Muhammad Ali, or Caitlyn, you are free to ignore that and call them Cornelius, or Cassius, or Bruce.

but own up to the fact that you are disrespecting their wishes. say to yourself or whoever "this person told me what they want to be referred to as, and I don't care."

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

fuck you.

said she needs to be psychologically evaluated...but Caitlyn is called a hero


>You can self identify as you see fit, that's your right.
>
>However... everyone else can identify you as they see fit,
>that's their right as well.
>
>You want to identify as "Pookie" and tell everyone to call you
>that, fine... But folks still have the right to call you
>Cornelius if they reject calling you by your "street name".
>
>You want to identify as the opposite sex, well... good for
>you.
>However, if someone doesn't accept that, guess what? They
>don't have to.
>
>The reality you hold for yourself doesn't transfer to everyone
>else around you. You have a right to it, but the next person
>doesn't have to acknowledge it for any reason.
>
>You personal reality is just that: Yours. The remaining 6-7
>billion people on this planet are not obligated to entertain
>it.
>
>---------------------------
>
>"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the
>peace when we were getting laid out?
>Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances?
>Where is the peace then?
>They don't want to call for peace then.

grassrootsphilosopher

The pronoun matters. Would it be okay to call Caitlyn "he" or "it" just because it's your choice? Certainly it's your choice to disrespect someone, but it is indeed disrespect. So anyone in this situation of trying to fill a certain cultural role (gender roles included) is asking for a basic respect, and the pronoun is as basic as it gets.

______________________________
http://i.imgur.com/Gj5Wy56.jpg

fuck you.

and if you can't broach this subject without resorting to shaming people into conformity, you're more of an asshole than you perceive people that address someone by their sex instead of their "gender".


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

b/c it's incredibly difficult to manage trans identity in a world filled w/hateful assholes...you know, like you.

so yeah...i choose not to compound their pain by disrespecting them and rejecting their chosen pronoun. especially since referring to them as they've requested costs me NOTHING. and it means much more to them than it does to me. so i can't see a reason not to refer to them w/the pronoun they choose. b/c i don't want to be one more asshole making their existence more difficult than it should be.

and yes i will continue to shame ppl like you who refuse to refer to a trans person by their chosen pronoun. b/c your refusal is reprehensible and indefensible.

fuck you.

>b/c it's incredibly difficult to manage trans identity in a
>world filled w/hateful assholes...you know, like you.

hate
hāt/
verb
verb: hate; 3rd person present: hates; past tense: hated; past participle: hated; gerund or present participle: hating

1. feel intense or passionate dislike for (someone).



Please... Point out this "hate" in ANY post of mine.

I'll wait.

Yeah, you can't do that factually, can you Mr Lawyer?


>so yeah...i choose not to compound their pain by disrespecting
>them and rejecting their chosen pronoun. especially since
>referring to them as they've requested costs me NOTHING. and
>it means much more to them than it does to me. so i can't see
>a reason not to refer to them w/the pronoun they choose. b/c
>i don't want to be one more asshole making their existence
>more difficult than it should be.

So why hang all of this on Transpeople??? Why can this not be extended to any other group of people that genuinely feel different than they present? You, personally, scoffed at the notion of transracial being real which makes YOU the asshole for marginalizing a group of people that DO exist but cannot self identify as they please for fear that someone like you will come forward and say that they're crazy, don't exist, and all the other rhetoric you, personally, have claimed in other threads will be used against transpeople.

Your group (LGBT community) cannot have complete ownership of "trans" anything and you cannot control how it's defined when applied to other groups of people. It is not yours exclusively. Your people have already selfishly stripped a nation of it's identity despite their objections, so I can see this is just your modus operandi. But to continue to deny anyone the ability to self identify because you believe it will marginalize the attention to the plight of one of your own makes all of you the assholes in this.

>
>and yes i will continue to shame ppl like you who refuse to
>refer to a trans person by their chosen pronoun. b/c your
>refusal is reprehensible and indefensible.

in #52 you scoff at the idea that you're trying to shame me. Now you're saying you're definitely trying to do just that...

Typical lawyer. I expect nothing less from the likes of you.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

http://d1zlh37f1ep3tj.cloudfront.net/wp/wblob/54592E651337D2/64F/759A6/-jTGUMsn7VWeWKUcorpbVw/ccol-story-bro-tell-it-again.jpg

fuck you.

Why can this not be
>extended to any other group of people that genuinely feel
>different than they present?

How is someone like Caitlyn trying to identify differently than she presents? Is she not presenting as a woman? You're rationalizing your refusal to respect her with your predetermined knowledge of her. I'm not saying that's wrong or right, but that's what's happening.
______________________________
http://i.imgur.com/Gj5Wy56.jpg

who wants to date straight women?

Shit, I'm confused.

is Caitlyn a lesbian and Bruce is straight?

ain't she/he also a republican?

Shit is a mess

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

I'm pretty sure the answer is none of them.

>who wants to date straight women?
>
>Shit, I'm confused.
>
>is Caitlyn a lesbian and Bruce is straight?
>
>ain't she/he also a republican?
>
>Shit is a mess


______________________________
http://i.imgur.com/Gj5Wy56.jpg

if the LGBT won't let got of "lesbian" despite the protest of, you know, actual Lesbians, why should anyone honor calling "he" a "she" or vice versa?

I say lead by example.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/30/lesbos-residents-sue-gay_n_99405.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7376919.stm

but we all know this shit ain't going to EVER happen.
---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

good joke, pal.

very funny.

anyway, i say the same thing about Caitlyn and other trans and pronouns - WHY SHOULD ANYONE GIVE A SHIT WHICH PRONOUN THEY WANT US TO USE? what does it hurt us to use their pronoun? what do we gain when we reject their pronoun? they've told us that it hurts when we reject their pronoun so we know why they want us to use their chosen pronoun. so why can't we do it??

there is no good answer to that question that doesn't make one a disrespectful cretin. which is why i use whatever pronoun the person asks me to use. b/c it costs me nothing. maybe i don't understand it - i don't have to understand it. who the fuck am i? fuck me. it ain't about me and my confusion. i may not know why a person wants me to refer to them as 'it'. fine. if they like it i love it. i'll refer to them as 'it'. if she wants to be a 'she'...right on. she's a 'she'. even if she doesn't 'look like' a she. whatever. it costs me nothing and it means everything to her. so i'm w/her.

no reason to do anything else. unless i want to be a jerk.

particularly when the people of Lesbos have requested this?

You can't have it both ways bruh. You can't admonish one group for doing the same shit your peoples are doing.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

maybe something i'll consider - especially if the Lesbians make a real case for us using some other identifier as opposed to the disingenuous 'gotcha!' shit you pulled here. note: the Greek court tossed the case so maybe the Lesbians need to find a better advocate than you and the lawyer(s) they used in court - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/2445282/Lesbos-islanders-lose-lesbian-ban-court-case.html

in the meantime, back to the trans thing (which is an actual thing and not some made-up controversy or a weak 'gotcha!' attempt) there's no good answer to that question i posed.

so i choose to go w/the pronoun i'm asked to use.

fuck you.

>maybe something i'll consider - especially if the Lesbians
>make a real case for us using some other identifier as opposed
>to the disingenuous 'gotcha!' shit you pulled here. note: the
>Greek court tossed the case so maybe the Lesbians need to find
>a better advocate than you and the lawyer(s) they used in
>court -
>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/2445282/Lesbos-islanders-lose-lesbian-ban-court-case.html

Disingenuous??? The shit went to court, how is that shit disingenuous???

At any rate, that it failed in court doesn't mean anything; they still want you to stop using it. The question is will you???

>in the meantime, back to the trans thing (which is an actual
>thing and not some made-up controversy or a weak 'gotcha!'
>attempt) there's no good answer to that question i posed.
>
>so i choose to go w/the pronoun i'm asked to use.

That's cool... Do you, just stop trying to force others to do the same.
---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

>Disingenuous??? The shit went to court, how is that shit
>disingenuous???

you bringing it up here is disingenuous. b/c you don't give a damn about the Lesbians...you're just trying to 'win' in this post.

>At any rate, that it failed in court doesn't mean anything;
>they still want you to stop using it. The question is will
>you???

as i said, i might consider it if Lesbians convince me. kinda like how trans and their advocates convinced me about this pronoun thing we're discussing and you're trying to deflect.

>That's cool... Do you, just stop trying to force others to do
>the same.

oh totally. ppl are free to be as rude and disrespectful and hurtful as they feel the need. as long as they own the shit.

so do you too, pal. own your awfulness.

fuck you.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

you never gave me a good reason to reject a trans person's requested pronoun.

you never told me what you lose when you use the pronoun they request. or what you gain when you reject their pronoun.

if you'd like i can find some stories from trans ppl who have explained the importance of the proper pronoun. i'm not sure if you're aware of the importance.

this article discusses the issue:

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/1/8700273/transgender-pronouns

When Caitlyn Jenner came out as a transgender woman to ABC News's Diane Sawyer, she asked to be referred to with male pronouns for the time being. But in a new Vanity Fair cover story by Buzz Bissinger, Jenner is referred to as "she." The reason is simple: Jenner is now publicly referring to herself that way.

This is standard advice for referring to people's gender identity: respect their wishes. If there's any reasonable uncertainty, GLAAD advises the best thing to do is directly ask what someone's gender identity is. Although it can be awkward for both parties, it's much better than the problems that can arise from not asking and making an assumption. And there's a good chance transgender people may be used to the question — and might even appreciate it, because it shows you don't want to misgender them.

Misgendering is seen as an insult within LGBTQ communities because it characterizes people in a way they don't relate to. What's worse, some opponents of LGBTQ rights purposely misgender people to show their disapproval of identifying or expressing gender in a way that doesn't heed traditional social standards. These subtle acts are viewed by many LGBTQ people as microaggressions, which, while not always overtly or purposely insulting, can act as a constant reminder to people that large segments of the population don't understand or approve of their personal identity.

"Imagine going through life every day and having so many of your interactions involve somebody trying to give you a hug and stepping on your foot while doing it," Emily Prince, a 31-year-old trans woman in Alexandria, Virginia, said in December. "And then when you ask them to step off your foot, no matter how polite you are about it, they respond with, 'Oh, excuse me, I was just trying to give you a hug.'"

Sometimes the problem is magnified by limitations in the English language, which relies heavily on gendered pronouns. LGBTQ communities have tried to propose various gender-neutral pronouns, but none have caught on. Some people and organizations, including Vox, might use "they" instead of "he" or "she" as a gender-neutral singular pronoun.

The lack of a widely accepted gender-neutral pronoun makes it difficult for even the most well-meaning person to correctly address someone without running the risk of misgendering them. That's one of the reasons it's typically better to directly ask about a person's gender identity if there's any reasonable uncertainty.

fuck you.

that was a pretty good read

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

and there is no more discussion here to be had.
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grassrootsphilosopher

Sex is a medical classification. Gender is a cultural classification.
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"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

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The term "Gender" had never been applied to humans until the paper published in 1955 by John Money. Even after that it took another 15-20 years before it was really given a mainstream push which came at the hands of the 2nd wave feminists of that time.

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"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

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http://i.imgur.com/Gj5Wy56.jpg

our most basic instincts.

We aren't much different from other primates in the way males and females operate. In that respect, we're also not much different from any other animal; it is instinctive for male to protect the females of their species and for females to raise and guide their offspring. This can be seen across many, many species of animals... Even when they're born in captivity without the influence of the herds those instincts still exist.

Human societies were built around those instinctive roles. Some placed the women at the head of those societies, most placed males at the head, but the underlying roles each sex played were still based on our simplest instincts.

"Gender" was never a part of it.

(edited for their/they're issue)
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"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

Mice can be manipulated neurologically to present their asses like female mice do, sure

But a gender role is something too complex for any other life on earth but humanity

What you observe is biological imperative according to development

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

So call them sex roles instead, if you want. You could call gender roles a misnomer.
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"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.