http://www.salon.com/2015/09/21/im_a_pedophile_but_not_a_monster/

I’m a pedophile, but not a monster

I'm attracted to children but unwilling to act on it. Before judging me harshly, would you be willing to listen?

TODD NICKERSON

I was born without my right hand. As a child, this deformity quickly set me apart from my peers. In public I wore a prosthesis, an intimidating object to other youngsters because of its resemblance to a pirate’s hook. Even so, I wore it every day; I felt inadequate without it. I was shy, uncoordinated and terrible at sports, all of which put me on the outs with other boys my age. But I was good at drawing and making up stories for my own entertainment, and I spent more and more time in my own head, being a space adventurer or monster wrangler or whatever character I could think up. These would ultimately prove to be useful skills, but for now they only served to further alienate me from other kids. On top of it all, I still struggled with bladder control—likely due to my heaping pile of insecurities, to which this problem only added more—well into my elementary school years.

But none of this would compare to the final insult the universe would deal me. I’ve been stuck with the most unfortunate of sexual orientations, a preference for a group of people who are legally, morally and psychologically unable to reciprocate my feelings and desires. It’s a curse of the first order, a completely unworkable sexuality, and it’s mine. Who am I? Nice to meet you. My name is Todd Nickerson, and I’m a pedophile. Does that surprise you? Yeah, not many of us are willing to share our story, for good reason. To confess a sexual attraction to children is to lay claim to the most reviled status on the planet, one that effectively ends any chance you have of living a normal life. Yet, I’m not the monster you think me to be. I’ve never touched a child sexually in my life and never will, nor do I use child pornography.

But isn’t that the definition of a pedophile, you may ask, someone who molests kids? Not really. Although “pedophile” and “child molester” have often been used interchangeably in the media, and there is some overlap, at base, a pedophile is someone who’s sexually attracted to children. That’s it. There’s no inherent reason he must act on those desires with real children. Some pedophiles certainly do, but many of us don’t. Because the powerful taboo keeps us in hiding, it’s impossible to know how many non-offending pedophiles are out there, but signs indicate there are a lot of us, and too often we suffer in silence. That’s why I decided to speak up.

The Discovery of an Alternate Sexuality:

Many gays begin to recognize their sexual preferences sometime around puberty, if not before. For me it was the same. I was about 12 when the first inklings of a sexual preference bubbled up in me, though at the time I thought little of it. As I turned 13 it occurred to me that what I initially took as a phase had begun to solidify into something more troubling. Even so, at this point I could still convince myself that I was within the realm of normalcy. Then something happened that all but removed my ability to continue this self-denial: my Eureka Moment.

One day, as I was sketching in my grandparents’ living room, a neighbor of theirs came to visit with his seven-year-old daughter in tow. At first I hadn’t noticed her because she was quiet. I only heard my grandpa and his neighbor chatting in the kitchen while I sketched. Soon the little girl walked into the dining room and stood at the archway entrance to the living room, watching me draw. I can still see her today in my mind’s eye: dressed in blue jeans and a nearly matching denim jacket, with pristine blue eyes and a halo of wispy blond curls framing her face. She seemed somehow larger than life and almost ancient in the way she stood so perfectly still. Then, just like that, she was gone; she and her father left. That singular moment, though it could scarcely have lasted more than a few minutes, has become seared into my memory.

He Touched Me:

So how had this happened? Well, I have a pretty good idea. When I was seven years old, I was fondled in the front yard of my grandparents’ home by a man I barely knew. It was a one-time event in my life and not a particularly traumatic one. A man I’ll call Hans, a German who was acquainted with my uncle and aunt from when they lived in Nuremberg, had come to visit America. He spent a day and a night at their place, and they lived next door to my family along with my grandparents, who shared their two-story brick house. That day, the man lingered in the house with my grandma, who was stuck with him while everyone else had gone to work, and as neither could speak the other’s language, it quickly became uncomfortable for both.

Grammy’s solution was to send Hans outside with one of the grandkids. As I happened to be in the room at the time, I was assigned the task. “Take him out and show him Papa’s garden,” she told me. “Tell him the names of the vegetables. He’d probably enjoy that.” I agreed. Besides, even though I knew not a whit of German, I was very much at ease in Hans’s presence. He was painfully thin, with a messy mop of hair and large glasses. I should point out that the men in my life, including my father, were gruff blue-collar types who could intimidate me. Hans was different: gentle, soft-spoken and appealingly awkward—a lot like me!

I took the man’s right hand with my left (my good hand) and led him out into the garden, which took up most of the front lawn at my grandparents’ place. I escorted my new friend down the rows of veggies, calling out each one as we passed it, and Hans would gleefully parrot the names. This went on until we made our way through the entire garden. I was proud to find myself educating an adult rather than the other way around. When the English lesson was over, Hans plopped himself down on a patch of earth near the garden and patted the spot next to him, indicating he wanted me to sit there. I did. I couldn’t believe this peculiar man I barely knew was so eager to connect with me, the weird little kid nobody liked. It felt good.

For long minutes we simply enjoyed each other’s company. Then, out of the blue, Hans slipped a hand into my shorts, even though we were only about 30 feet from the poorly paved country road that meandered through this stretch of country. This went on for several minutes. I was confused but not frightened or troubled. The only thing I could think to say while this was happening was “Peepee,” continuing the English lesson with my pet name for my genitalia even in the midst of my own abuse. Hans chortled and repeated the word: “Peepee.” Eventually this came to an end, and Hans, having gotten what he wanted, shooed me away. I can’t imagine why it didn’t occur to him that I would immediately rat him out; maybe he knew and just didn’t care. Anyway, he could hardly ask me not to, could he? I raced back to Grammy and promptly informed her of what had happened. She deliberated over what to do, in the end asking me to keep it a secret from everyone, including my parents, and ordering me to stay away from Hans. No authorities were called, and life went on as usual. Hans stayed that evening with my uncle and aunt and left the next day. I never saw him again.

Ultimate Causes:

It’s easy to assume that pedophilia is always the result of some early sexualization or abuse, and certainly there seems to be a connection in some cases. However, evidence suggests there’s no magic bullet that pedophilia can be traced back to. For every pedophile who was sexually abused as a child there’s another who wasn’t. Likewise, most abuse victims never manifest pedophilic desires. Some researchers surmise that pedophilia can be traced back to genetics. Others believe the cause is congenital, and still others that it’s environmental. Personally, I think the ultimate cause is likely some combination of those, and that it varies from person to person.

Another issue is the role feelings of inadequacy play in forming our sexuality. Pedophilia may not arise from such fears (otherwise there’d be a lot more pedophiles), but those fears can certainly reinforce it. I think it’s safe to say that many pedophiles have deep-seated feelings of inferiority in one way or another, or at least we did when our sexuality was forming, and this becomes a downward spiral during puberty and beyond. Anything can be the trigger of this: disabilities, weight issues, or just general feelings of unattractiveness to peers. These feelings can be influential on one’s developing sexuality, such that even the severe cultural taboo is not enough to override it. Indeed, the taboo itself can negatively influence these vulnerable children.

I recall an event from when I was 11, sitting in the family jeep with my dad and his friend Andy when a news piece on the radio reported the sexual abuse of a girl, to which my dad said to his friend something like, “They should take people like that and place weights on top of their genitals until they smash.” Pretty horrific imagery for an 11-year-old to process, and I couldn’t help but sympathize with the abuser. After all, I could recall my own molestation perfectly, and I hardly felt it warranted that kind of response.

The bile has only multiplied since then, and I believe all that hatred just serves to reinforce pedophilia in youngsters predisposed to it. It’s a form of cognitive bias called the Backfire Effect or polarization. Everyone does this to some extent. When challenged on deeply held beliefs, no matter how uncertain or incorrect they may be, we tend to dig in our heels. With sexuality, that effect is likely magnified because there’s a physiological component, a drive every bit as powerful as belief. In essence, your brain knows what it likes and isn’t going to take no for an answer. For that reason, the nature or nurture question with respect to sexual preference is ultimately irrelevant—it becomes all but hardwired soon enough, until it’s all you know. And it’s self-reinforcing, no matter how much you wish to dig it out. Eventually it all tangles together with the rest of who you are.

Getting Schooled:

Things went along OK until I was two years away from graduating college. I began to smoke pot, a drug I’d experimented with after high school but didn’t much care for then. I didn’t like it the second time around either; it made me anxious more often than not. But I did it anyway, largely because many people I respected smoked it, and I wanted to be more like them. I was trying desperately to reshape my identity before I was thrown out into the real world. I’d even begun working out, lifting weights and exercising to get in better shape. On the outside I might’ve seemed pretty normal, but on the inside I was screaming in terror at the prospect of having to “grow up” and be “normal”—which to me meant getting a real job, finding a girlfriend, eventually getting married and raising a family. Oh, I wanted to be normal, believe me, yet I knew myself well enough to know I wouldn’t be able to carry that charade off for long, and every fiber of my being resisted the forced transformation.

After graduation I fell into the deepest pit of despair imaginable, one that lasted several years, and I’ve only just begun to pull myself out of it. You can’t experience that much blind terror and pain for that long without being seriously impacted by it. I still worked out every other day, so I was hurting constantly, since depression saps your brain of the feel-good chemicals that helps to counteract pain; but I felt something, and that was better than the emotional numbness that had overtaken me. Thus, my project to remake myself into a regular person a complete failure, I retreated inward like a kicked dog, often spending days on end in my bedroom. At the nadir of my depression I was contemplating suicide daily; some days I could think of little else. I found some relief in opiates, which I had to obtain illegally because doctors won’t prescribe them for depression and anxiety. The occasional hydrocodone gave me a moment of respite from the agony I was going through. I’d tried antidepressants, but they were a joke.

In the midst of that dark era in my life, I discovered an unhealthy pedophile forum. Nothing illegal was happening there, but many of its most influential members were pro-contacters, meaning they believed that sex with children was theoretically OK and supported the elimination of age of consent laws. That forum still exists and I won’t name it here, but suffice it to say, I found myself taking up the same pro-contacter chants, if only to feel like I belonged somewhere. At the time it was all that was available in terms of an actual pedophile community, and I had nothing left to lose by joining the cause, misguided though it was, and even decided to out myself on that forum. Over the ensuing years, though, I was often at odds with the pro-contacters and flitted in and out of their clique; I wanted desperately to be friends with people who shared my sexual orientation, even if they held crazy beliefs, but I could never quite reconcile with their viewpoint.

Not long after I self-outed, a group of web vigilantes called Perverted Justice showed up. You’ve probably heard of them; they’re the people behind the now-defunct TV show “To Catch a Predator.” I was no predator, but that mattered not one iota to these guys; they lumped me together with the child rapists and internet creeps just the same. As I was already out of the closet as a pedo, I was an easy target, becoming one of the first people they profiled on their Wikisposure page, a site devoted to outing online pedos whether they’d broken any laws or not. It has since changed hands but still exists online, buried in a dark corner of the internet, and yep, I’m still on it. Not that I much care anymore. Perverted Justice had their day, but they eventually burned their own house down. Back when they were in full effect, however, they managed to make my already miserable existence that much more miserable. After their expose came out, I was fired from my job at Lowe’s.

But things are getting better. Slowly. These days I struggle with bitterness and apathy; it’s a constant uphill battle, and there are days I just don’t feel like making that climb. I eke out a living (barely) on a freelance graphic design business, in a small town where too many people know who and what I am. Now I have a bachelor’s degree in journalism that I’ve never used and I’m living well below the poverty line, existing on food stamps and the couple hundred dollars I manage to scrape together every month, sometimes augmented with financial help from my parents if the bills get too high. I tried filing for disability over my arm and my emotional issues, but that was a no-go in my conservative Southern state. This is what a law-abiding pedophile has been reduced to in this society. At times I’ve wondered why I’ve even bothered to stay legal. Maybe prison would be better, even at the risk of getting shanked as a Short Eyes. At least then it would all be over with. But alas, I could never hurt a child. No matter what, some small part of me still holds out hope that things will go back to normal, or as close to normal as a celibate pedophile with little prospect of a future can get. Besides, like I said earlier, I just couldn’t allow myself to foist this abomination onto another human being. So I simply endured. Until …

VirPed!:

I was still caught up in the same nonsense at the pro-contacter forum last year when Ethan Edwards started posting at the forum. Actually he’d been there for a while. I didn’t take much notice of him at first, but when I realized he was the constant target of the pro-contacters’ attacks, I sympathized with him and began to pay closer attention to his posts, realizing that he was an anti-contacter like me. He was there to win over people who were either on the fence about the contact issue or didn’t agree with the pro-contacters’ position but had nowhere else to go to talk about their sexuality. Until now. Ethan and his friend Nick Devin founded Virtuous Pedophiles on the notion that pedos needed an alternative to those other forums, a place where they can feel comfortable and get the support they need without the pressure to support sketchy views about adult-child sex.

I really can’t praise this organization enough. It’s been a lifesaver for me. I still get depressed and anxious sometimes, but I’m improving. I feel better about myself and a little more hopeful about my future these days. I have other pedophiles in my life that I’m actually proud to call friends, people I would trust my children with if I had any, knowing they’d be safe there. Many, like Ethan, have raised families of their own, or are still doing so. A large number of them are quite young. Despite the prevailing stereotype of the dirty old man, the average age of posters at VP hovers around mid-twenties. I’m so glad that younger folks are flocking to Virtuous Pedophiles, where they can get the coaching and support that was not available to us older pedos at their age. It’ll make all the difference as they settle into themselves and learn to accept who they are.

VirPed itself has become the go-to place for support for non-offending pedophiles and has been mentioned and endorsed everywhere from NPR, Salon and the Atlantic to the New York Times and Toronto Star. As its popularity increases, so too does its effectiveness. There are still holdouts, people who believe that pedophilic feelings should be crammed down into the most subterranean recesses of ourselves, never to be discussed in the open, but these folks are going the way of the dodo bird. Anyway, we’ve tried that. Take it from someone who has firsthand experience: it not only doesn’t work, it tends to make things far worse. Please repeat this mantra to yourself: a repressed, unhappy pedophile is a pedophile at risk.

Those individuals who have the courage to come forward and lay claim to this affliction with the understanding that they only want to use their pedo powers for good should be commended, not hated and feared. You can’t imagine how difficult it is to tell people you’re a pedophile, even a non-offending one, and even if those people are other pedos. Truly, the very concept of a pedophile who neither molests nor wants to molest children is often anathema to people’s way of thinking. The long-held belief that pedophiles are destined to abuse kids is a tough one to overcome, yet many of us get just as upset as—if not more upset than—non-pedophiles when we read accounts of sexual abuse, not only because we hate when one of the little people we love most suffers, but also because, whenever yet another pedophile is arrested, it reinforces the reigning paradigm of the pedo as ticking time bomb.

For better or worse—mostly worse—we have this sexuality, and unlike with most sexualities, there is no ethical way we can fully actualize our sexual longings. Our desires and feelings, if we are to remain upright, are doomed from the outset. Indeed, whereas the majority of crimes can be bounced back from, society doesn’t extend a mulligan to molesters. I understand why, but that doesn’t make the burden any lighter to bear, particularly for those of us who have minimal or no attraction to adults. And for the pedos who are lucky enough to be able to form working relationships with adults, there are a new set of concerns: What if we have children? Will I be a threat to them? Can I ever share this fact with my spouse? Can I ever love and want her as much as I do a child?

So, please, be understanding and supportive. It’s really all we ask of you. Treat us like people with a massive handicap we must overcome, not as a monster. If we are going to make it in the world without offending, we need your help. Listening to me was a start.

They are good people. I also believe the majority of child molestors are NOT pedophiles.

>They are good people. I also believe the majority of child
>molestors are NOT pedophiles.

Imma need to mull over it since I never saw it from that angle but it makes sense since most rapes have nothing to do with sexuality

with a mother heartbreaking crying over her son (who similarly swore never to act on his impulsions) because ultimately he would never be truly happy or content.

I just finished reading a 'best of' collection of N+1 and they had an piece on pedophilia called "Afternoon of the Sex Children" where the author was hinting that being a youth obsessed society in not wanting to age, along with a sex focused one in commerce, may not lead to outright pedophilia but a fucked up view of sexuality in kids.

So dude's hitting 15 pages of nuance academic speak seeing it from all angles, but eventually even his 'gotta hear both sides(C) facade disappeared with this one liner "Sorry as I felt for these men, it was clear to me they should be destroyed", lol.

It's a shitty lot to draw as far as fucked up brain wiring if even the most liberal logical people in our society want your existence erased.

I wish them all the best. It sounds like they all have a tough row to hoe.

fuck you.

when i first read that, my answer was NAH, not really.

but that would be very closed minded of me. but is pedophilia really a subject i want to be open minded about?

eh.

b/c the article asks us to view this admitted pedophile as a person and attempt to understand where he's coming from.

we don't like pedophilia. we wish it would go away. it won't. unfortunately pedophilia is carried by ppl. who also won't go away. we can't lock 'em all up and throw away the key and pretend they don't exist. they live among us as they're entitled unless/until they're convicted for engaging in criminal conduct. so since they're living among us it might be in our interest to attempt to understand them. and if we're interested in exercising empathy for others then we should definitely try to understand them. it's tough though b/c we're conditioned to ignore them or wish them away or dream up creative punishments for them. plus their professed desires make us feel icky. but still...they're ppl too.

fuck you.

***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

>b/c the article asks us to view this admitted pedophile as a
>person and attempt to understand where he's coming from.
>
>we don't like pedophilia. we wish it would go away. it
>won't. unfortunately pedophilia is carried by ppl. who also
>won't go away. we can't lock 'em all up and throw away the
>key and pretend they don't exist. they live among us as
>they're entitled unless/until they're convicted for engaging
>in criminal conduct. so since they're living among us it
>might be in our interest to attempt to understand them. and
>if we're interested in exercising empathy for others then we
>should definitely try to understand them. it's tough though
>b/c we're conditioned to ignore them or wish them away or
>dream up creative punishments for them. plus their professed
>desires make us feel icky. but still...they're ppl too.


... is that pretty much everything you said here has been said about homosexuals in the past. The SCOTUS didn't invalidate sodomy laws tht still criminalized homosexual acts (as well as the same sexual acts performed between heterosexuals) until 2003, a 180 from their 1986 ruling that upheld those very same laws.

Until relatively recently the general consensus regarding homosexuality was similar to what you said: we don't like homosexuality, we wish it would go away but it won't, we can't lock up all homosexuals and throw away the key and pretend they don't exist. They live among us as they're entitled unless they're engaged in criminal conduct. If we're interested in exercising empathy for others then we should definitely try to understand them. it's tough though b/c we're conditioned to ignore them or wish them away or dream up creative punishments for them (i.e. criminalizing their acts as rape when one person is under 22 years old). Plus their professed desires make us feel icky. But still... they're people too.


and with that, we arrive here. And you have to remember that the USA is barely 100 years past a time where it was 100% acceptable for a grown ass man to marry a 10-12 year old girl (In Massachusetts it's still legal for a 12 year old girl to marry with parental consent), so it's not like we've been above government sanctioned pedo shit for a long time.

The question is... will pedos/hebos be next on the "civil rights" liberation front? I've seen an awful lot of articles like this one lately and it's starting to look like there's going to be an organized push for it.

The problem is that one act is with two consenting adults the other is definitely not.

Pedophilia is a crime not because it makes some adults feel icky or some feel it's "morally" wrong according to their religion but because it's one of the most traumatic experiences a human being can face as a victim and there's no two consenting adults. Shit in most scenarios there isn't even a "consenting" child(and such a thing doesn't exist), just coercion/threats and outright forcing one on an innocent.

You've always had orgs like NAMBLA (sp?) argue that it can be a 'safe' space but it's an impossibility; just by the lack of maturity, age difference, yada yada yada at best it's an exploitative. Even though you can write shit off like this since it takes place in a third world country imho ultimately that line of thinking will end up here...
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-told-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html

Because at the end of the day children have no rights/no means of protecting themselves physically and without explicit societal rules, if not the state, protecting them, ultimately that's where that line of thinking goes; abuse, torture and ultimately a form of servitude/slavery.

To compare to to two adults fucking always is just a homophobic strawman.

which is why i say if the pedophiles can find advocates to make the case for them and if that fight results in pedophiles' civil rights being recognized and codified in law then that's great for them. i don't see it happening for the reasons you've identified.

fuck you.

>The problem is that one act is with two consenting adults the
>other is definitely not.

Marriages between a child and an adult have only stopped in this country (barring R Kelly) within the last century. This means sex between them, with girls having kids as soon as they hit puberty.

>
>Pedophilia is a crime not because it makes some adults feel
>icky or some feel it's morally wrong but because it's one of
>the most traumatic experiences a human being can face as a
>victim and there's no two concenting adults. Shit in most
>scenarios there isn't even a "consenting" child(and such a
>thing doesn't exist), just coercion/threats and outright
>forcing one on an innocent.

Until NAMBLA forced the issue, it WAS a crime between two consenting adults if it was a homosexual couple where one partner was, say, 23 and the other 20.

>
>You've always had orgs like NAMBLA (sp?) argue that it can be
>a 'safe' space but it's an impossibility; just by the lack of
>maturity, age difference, yada yada yada at best it's an
>exploitive relationship and abusive by its mere existence.

And I agree with this wholeheartedly.

>>Even though you can write shit off like this since it takes
>place in a third world country
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-told-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html
>
>At the end of the day children have no rights and without
>implcit societal rules, if not the state, protecting them,
>ultimately that's where that line of thinking goes; abuse,
>torture and ultimately a form of servitude/slavery.
>
>To compare to to two adults fucking always is just a
>homophobic strawman.

It was the law of the land once upon a time. Call it a strawman argument if you need to to feel better about something, but even recently homosexuals were being arrested for "crimes against nature" for having sex with one another.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/08/05/gay_people_are_still_being_arrested_for_having_consensual_sex_in_some_red.html

http://nation.time.com/2013/07/31/louisiana-sodomy-sting-how-invalidated-sex-laws-still-lead-to-arrests/




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"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

if they can make the turn around the gays/lesbians have made and that the trans are currently making then that's wonderful. i'm all for more ppl having their basic human and civil rights recognized by relevant parties.

more power to them.

see also: bigamists. necrophiliacs. objectophiliacs. zoophiliacs. and any other group around whom you want to construct a strawman as part of this discussion. they can all get in where they fit in.

fuck you.

>Marriages between a child and an adult have only stopped in
>this country (barring R Kelly) within the last century. This
>means sex between them, with girls having kids as soon as they
>hit puberty.

While the age of consent was LOW, there WAS an age of consent even back then. Age ten from that literary journal article i just read and I don't want to do a search like that on my work computer to confirm because I need my job, lol.

>Until NAMBLA forced the issue, it WAS a crime between two
>consenting adults if it was a homosexual couple where one
>partner was, say, 23 and the other 20.

Moot point; there are plenty of things that society deemed as crimes that in hindsight are not. Notice my slavery crack above, interracial marriage, etc.


>It was the law of the land once upon a time. Call it a
>strawman argument if you need to to feel better about
>something, but even recently homosexuals were being arrested
>for "crimes against nature" for having sex with one another.

Like I said above, it was never the law of the land, just an unfortunately lower age of consent in the US. I am not sure what you are arguing about; are you arguing that homosexuality is akin to a sexual freedom and by extention so is fucking kids? That the repeal in certain laws mooted in old school morality will lead to unexpected consequences as we get more modern? Whatcha angle?

>While the age of consent was LOW, there WAS an age of consent
>even back then. Age ten from that literary journal article i
>just read and I don't want to do a search like that on my work
>computer to confirm because I need my job, lol.

Can we not agree that a 21 year old marrying a 10 year old reeks of pedophilia? Whether it was legally OK or not the shit is still nasty! I wish a nigga would come to me like he wanted my blessing to marry my 13 yer old. Y'all would be reading about me in the news that day.

>
>>Until NAMBLA forced the issue, it WAS a crime between two
>>consenting adults if it was a homosexual couple where one
>>partner was, say, 23 and the other 20.
>
>Moot point; there are plenty of things that society deemed as
>crimes that in hindsight are not. Notice my slavery crack
>above, interracial marriage, etc.
>
>>It was the law of the land once upon a time. Call it a
>>strawman argument if you need to to feel better about
>>something, but even recently homosexuals were being arrested
>>for "crimes against nature" for having sex with one another.
>
>Like I said above, it was never the law of the land, just an
>unfortunately lower age of consent in the US. I am not sure
>what you are arguing about; are you arguing that homosexuality
>is akin to a sexual freedom and by extention so is fucking
>kids? That the repeal in certain laws mooted in old school
>morality will lead to unexpected consequences as we get more
>modern? Whatcha angle?

It WAS the law of the land. The age of consent for heterosexual couples was different than that of homosexual couples in much of the country. In some cases anyone 22 and under would have been classified as statutory rape for having sex with someone 23 and up (i.e. two grown ass men having sex could still be considered rape). Plus there were the sodomy laws that were on the books in pretty much every state AND the whole "crimes against nature" shit so, yes, this shit was the law of the land.

My angle is this:

While we all admonish pedophiles today once upon a time in this country, as well as many others, pedophilia was sanctioned by the government. We are not too far removed from those times (which is better illustrated by Massachusetts own 12 year old age of consent for marriage). The argument I've been seeing with articles like these is that pedo/hebophelia is something these people are born with, akin to hetero/homosexuality, that this is not something they chose willingly. I don't think that's always the case; maybe in a few cases but the rest I believe are just predatory people. Personally I find it repulsive. I have children and the thought of some old nigga ogling one of my kids is enough to drive me to violence and no amount of normalization of it will change it.


But... As it pertains to SoWhat's reply that I quoted I stand by what I said: Everything he said is almost verbatim what was being said about homosexuals up to the early 2000's by heterosexuals. Whether it's between consenting adults or not, the sentiment is still there and you get that moment of clarity like "Damn... is that what we sounded like???" when you see people of a group you looked down on taking the position you once held.

It might be like an old white man listening to a Black man say the same shit towards a Mexican immigrant that he used to say towards Black folks and realizing "Damn, I used to say the same thing..."




---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

if the pedophiles are able to make progress as the gays/lesbians have then that's great for them. i wish them the best. i'm not ready to get out there on the front line and fight for their rights but maybe they have advocates who are prepared to make that fight for them.

*shrugs*

fuck you.

>if the pedophiles are able to make progress as the
>gays/lesbians have then that's great for them. i wish them
>the best. i'm not ready to get out there on the front line
>and fight for their rights but maybe they have advocates who
>are prepared to make that fight for them.
>
>*shrugs*

I was at my boy's barbershop back in '93 gettin' lined up and there was something on TV about a pride march in San Fran and one of the old heads in the spot said something eerily similar to what you just wrote, but regarding homosexuals and their progress.

Of course the majority of the shop clowned dude for saying that but after he left his barber told us that dudes older brother was gay and had been disowned by the family for it, so ole dude was kinda conflicted about the whole issue.


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

awesome.

fuck you.

"Get ready..for your blessing..."

lol

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Any more than I'd try to 'understand' or 'support' a rabid dog.

I don't give a fuck about your inner turmoil or personal narrative if you are a threat to my child.

Get yourself castrated, I'll consider it a first step.

Because my first instinct is basically just 'THREAT' and 'KILL'.

Hell, having images in your computer gets you jail time...

Why? Cause them niggas are sick and cant be cured.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

and are fully in control of their urges because of attitudes like this.

I understand your argument.

But I'm not going to wait and find out.

If you're taking your shots and keeping to yourself, fine.

But I'm not going to be in your support group or expose myself or my family to you in any way, shape or form.

Pedophilia is by nature predatory and exploitive. Its proximity is a threat in and of itself.

>But I'm not going to be in your support group or expose myself
>or my family to you in any way, shape or form.

...and none of that is required in order for us to exercise empathy for human suffering.

fuck you.

as many ppl would - especially parents. b/c ppl feel it's fine to act on pure emotion when it comes to THE CHILDREN!!!!!!! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo)

even perfectly reasonable persons will act a fool when it comes to this issue.

so yeah...you'll stand on what you said.

fuck you.

You can be tolerant and patient with anything that doesn't directly effect you, and be blithely dismissive of anyone as behaving irrationally or from sheer emotion when they don't agree with you. But the author isn't appealing to Reason -- he's making an emotional appeal. So why wouldn't I have an emotional response?

I mean, whatever. Snark away. It's like screaming into a tin can with this.

so what that JF is in this very post expressing some limited willingness to understand pedophiles beyond simply demonizing them.

my ability to offer any understanding must be about my general feelings about kids as proved by my decision not to have them. i must be unlike you who've decided to have kids and that explains why we disagree here.

of course.

>You can be tolerant and patient with anything that doesn't
>directly effect you

right. i'm not directly impacted b/c i don't have kids. if i had kids i'd be EN GARDE! against ALL pedophiles and even articles about pedophiles b/c that would keep my kid safe and i'd be all about keeping my kid safe! yes. of course this is true.

, and be blithely dismissive of anyone as
>behaving irrationally or from sheer emotion when they don't
>agree with you.

sure. b/c you've acted on reason in this post so far. i'm totally off base. my bad, guy.

But the author isn't appealing to Reason --
>he's making an emotional appeal. So why wouldn't I have an
>emotional response?

that makes sense.

>I mean, whatever. Snark away. It's like screaming into a tin
>can with this.

yup. i'm the worst! so awful.

http://image1.masterfile.com/em_t/01/35/05/640-01350511er.jpg

fuck you.

>as many ppl would - especially parents. b/c ppl feel it's fine to act on pure emotion when it comes to THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!

You can make sweeping statements, but everyone else who does is being stupid, intellectually unsophisticated, and irrational. Sounds awesome. And no, you're not directly impacted by something like this until you have children, because you're not in position right now where you'd have to deal with the physical, emotional and financial repair that being molested brings with it. Sorry.

>You can make sweeping statements, but everyone else who does
>is being stupid, intellectually unsophisticated, and
>irrational. Sounds awesome.

it is. it's pretty great being me. you'll never know.

And no, you're not directly
>impacted by something like this until you have children,

of course not. i was never a child myself. and i have no children in my life for whom i care. i live in a child-free bubble. that explains why i'm willing to offer some limited empathy but more importantly it explains why i pushback against the idea that it's okay to act unreasonably in the interest of protecting kids.

the fact that i'm a criminal defense attorney who regularly advocates for accused criminals who most of us consider the lowest of the low can't help explain why i might offer some empathy to a pedophile! no. it's about me being a cold, uncaring person who has no feelings for kids. that's it! it's not about who i am generally - the type who tends to defend folk from the lynch mob generally. the type who goes down in the lion's den to stand w/those who've been thrown in. none of that can explain my action in this post. it's just about my general assholishness and tendency to snark.

my god. you're totally on it here. you've nailed me.

>because you're not in position right now where you'd have to
>deal with the physical, emotional and financial repair that
>being molested brings with it. Sorry.

of course! i can't have been molested myself. i can't have had family members and friends who've been molested. i can't have had to help a close relative heal from the scars of her own molestation after she came to me w/it b/c she trusts me. NO!

you're a soothsayer, pal.

anyway...i dunno even remember what this is about. lol. except that i was pushing back against your expressed refusal to read the article. which i think i understand as i'd expect most ppl to react that way. i tend to challenge that position even though i think i know its source. i don't think it makes you a bad person even though i disagree w/you. yes i think your position is unreasonable but i still get it. i generally don't think it's fine for parents to get all unreasonably overprotective just b/c they have kids. which is why i push back when parents in my life have expressed similar positions - like when my homie who has a teen daughter acts like one of those fathers who meets his daughter's dates at the door w/a shotgun. i'm like - for what? why dance that dance? we saw it when we were teens and it didn't exactly do much good when we dealt with it. so why go there? not that my statement changed his position (outwardly at least) but i still made it. and if i had a daughter i might be that ridiculous and i'd hope one of my homies would pull me aside on that. not that we're homies...but anyway, this is part of a general thing w/me that goes beyond any snarkiness or contrariness or whatever the hell the running narrative is around here as related to the positions i take. LOL

fuck you.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_mesg&forum=4&topic_id=12899812&mesg_id=12900108&page=

fuck you.

FOH...

He needs to keep that shit to himself cause once he says "I am a pedoph-"

He is on the "no fly zone"

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

at the same time, a man doesn't have to be a pedo to molest your kids. Like I said, I don't think most pedos are molesters, and I;m fairly certain most molesters aren't pedos.

shit is sick..

and you are right about the molester shit and they are monsters as well.

sorry but some people aren't born right.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

because I'm not seeing your point at all.

here for dis.

I don't think most rapists are sexually attracted to their victims. They're just sick predators. Straight men rape other men in prison all the time. Men rape women regardless of attractiveness. I think most child molesters are just rapists going after easy targets as opposed to dudes who are "into kids".

Those were my first thoughts.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

because no one wants to feel sorry for these ppl, they are immediately demonized because how dare anyone think that way of a kid, but that is how their brain is wired and unfortunately there is no cure for thinking in that matter.

this is why so many ppl are so hesitant to admit they have these thoughts because they will be treated as outcasts about a condition that doesn't have a cure. While you can be chemically treated to repress that sexual desire, if we are discussing "love" of children, they will always long for that desire to be loved and feel affection because love and sex are two separate things.

Which then brings up the question, if someone falls for a child and however it is, they have a relationship and as the child grows up, will they still feel that love for that child and want to be with that person as an adult? <<<rarely is this the case we hear about, we hear "oh i got to old for them..." so is this truly a love and wanting to receive love or is it just, this is my sexual fetish?

she stayed w/the boy she met when he was in junior high school. she spent time in prison and all of that. they have been married for 10 years and have kids w/each other.

http://www.biography.com/news/mary-kay-letourneau-vili-fualaau-wedding-anniversary-scandal

fuck you.

http://www.biography.com/news/mary-kay-letourneau-vili-fualaau-wedding-anniversary-scandal

So is Mary no longer a pedophile, since he's an adult now and she's still attracted to him?

she was sexually and romantically attracted to a child.

if she's not a p

oh nevermind. this is that conditioning at work. i'm not interested in continuing here.

fuck you.

Why is she still attracted to him as an adult?

She's a child molester for sure. But is she a pedophile?

Is there a difference between people who are attracted to children and someone whose is attracted to a person, even though the person is a child?

These nuances fascinate me, not to normalize pedophilia, but to gain understanding as far as protecting kids and treating potential perps.

fuck you.

i dunno. i suspect it might be if the adults involved seek to have full-on romantic relationships w/kids. if it's about more than just banging out sexy kids. this article seems to indicate that at least for the writer there's more than just sexual desire happening. i am not comfortable enough w/the subject to explore this idea. it makes me feel kinda icky. but when i'm ready to get past my own shit maybe i can hear from pedophiles who can break it down for me.

fuck you.

if you are seeking a romantic relationship with them only to move on when they get to old, what is this really? its just fantasy fulfillment. I mean we all out grow ppl but this is something different and I think those cases are the ones we hear about most of the time. ppl will become involved with kids until they are too old...which is why i can't see this as love, because if you love someone, that will go pass the underlying desire for just their body. but i digress...maybe i'm a bit more open minded because i was never molested or raped. but ppl can't sympathize with ppl when the norm that is shown is not about love. the author can say what wants but he can't speak of what would happen if he were to pursue someone.

but ppl can't sympathize with ppl when the norm that is
>shown is not about love.

and this angle is interesting. b/c we're so conditioned to demonize pedophiles and treat them as monsters as opposed to whole ppl we may not be ready to receive a new narrative. we may not be ready to view their desires through the lens of love. it's easier for us to demonize them if we think they only want to fuck kids as opposed to love them. and if we think pedophiles only want to fuck kids and toss them aside for a new model when they 'age out' that also makes it easier for us. of course all of this makes life more difficult for pedophiles - and that's something else we've been conditioned to want. we want to give them no quarter, in part b/c they're not ppl to us. they're monsters. less than human. undeserving of empathy. easily dismissed. not our problem. not in our backyard. et al.

it's tough.

fuck you.

ppl want help for this and won't get it because of everything you just said. while i don't believe there is a cure...because desire is desire...chemical castration just eliminates that ability to act on that desire...but i think more ppl need help to avoid become predators.

reminds me of that kid who told his mom about his thoughts and she had him locked up.

note...in no way do i have any sympathy for ppl who actually molest children or rape children. it infuriates me...but when it comes to ppl who say i want help and can't find it, i can empathize because no one asks to be a certain way. they want help to NOT become monsters and i think that's important to recognize.

i feel for them.

fuck you.

and i agree with you both.

i am a parent and I applaud this guy for doing his best to be a responsible citizen...it's admirable...shit I WISH my father had only THOUGHT about sexually abusing me and didn't actually do it...i can't be mad at this guy at all and i truly hope he gets the help he needs...and that he remains strong enough to not cross the line into actions.

we can't help what we think about or desire...we can only "help" what we actually choose to do...

d

fuck you.

>if you are seeking a romantic relationship with them only to
>move on when they get to old, what is this really? its just
>fantasy fulfillment. I mean we all out grow ppl but this is
>something different and I think those cases are the ones we
>hear about most of the time. ppl will become involved with
>kids until they are too old...

I can't remember all the specifics, but there was a guy on trial for child molestation or something and one of the people that took the stand kinda in his defense was a woman who was romantically involved with him when she was very, very young. They had some kind of romantic relationship for years until she hit puberty. Once that happened he gently broke it off with her because he was no longer attracted to her like that anymore; she was no longer prepubescent.

Think of it this way: If you were in a romantic relationship with a woman, and one day she "comes out" to you as being a transman, and starts down the road towards sexual reassessment, are you going to continue that relationship?

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

i don't date women, so that's not my issue but if i were dating a man, and he says one day he wants to be a woman, would I stay? IDK to be honest. Him changing into a woman doesn't change my feelings toward him but does change the dynamics of the relationship as far as if i want to have kids, and now I know I can't. My personal family dynamic is a man, woman, and children. That's what I want.

but to me, its' more like i fell in love with someone skinny and then they got big...I'd still love them even if they were big...going from one sex to another is completely different than aging or developing naturally.

>i don't date women, so that's not my issue but if i were
>dating a man, and he says one day he wants to be a woman,
>would I stay? IDK to be honest. Him changing into a woman
>doesn't change my feelings toward him but does change the
>dynamics of the relationship as far as if i want to have kids,
>and now I know I can't. My personal family dynamic is a man,
>woman, and children. That's what I want.
>
>but to me, its' more like i fell in love with someone skinny
>and then they got big...I'd still love them even if they were
>big...going from one sex to another is completely different
>than aging or developing naturally.

... hitting puberty for a pedophile would be more akin to a sex change, not gaining weight. You get fat you can lose weight and not be fat anymore. Once you hit puberty there's no going back and if you're attracted to someone who has not yet hit puberty, once they hit it you're no longer attracted like that.

This was the dynamic we got from that show. The guy on trial was no longer attracted to the girl once she hit puberty.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

which is why, to me, being a pedophile is not about love. its' about fantasy. because if the love is lost once they become an adult, the only thing there is the attraction to a child, not the person. most ppl are just with other ppl based on the physical anyway...i'm talking about the "love" part of the word...how ppl will talk about coveting these children and wanting relationships...no, they just want to fulfill a fantasy. Relationships don't end because someone doesn't look the way they did once when you met them...and this convo is bigger than this thread. which is why in your question to me I said "i don't know what i'd do..."

i still stand by my statement. growing into an adult, is the same as any other normal growth and development and if you can't continue a relationship with someone you love through normal life changes, than all you are doing is using them for your own fantasy and the love you feel for them is false.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

.....I find it better to hear people's viewpoints, whether I agree/like them or not....

...I can't help but feel bad for dude ESPECIALLY for outing himself and the turmoil THAT caused....I'd feel less sorry if he'd done something illegal, but he hasn't (according to him), and goping off that, there is sympathy....

...I agree with some others who have said that it can be a controllable thing, HOWEVER....well, I wouldn't my little people anywhere near homie...EVER, and I'd never really wanna hang with him cause I'd never be able to get his inclination outta my mind...wish him the best, but no....

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

Like, it felt like it was straight from a book. That was the wildest part to me.

And him calling the German dudes "Hans" has to be a joke.

I don't judge him, and I think it's an interesting story that deserves to be heard. I wouldn't want him around my kids, or any kids for that matter, though. Just seeing how he described that girl...even if he never touches them, I don't even want him to get the satisfaction of fiending for them like that.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

Especially parents… Im curious if your child was ever molested and then later in life had those same desires would you want them executed as well & have no empathy for them? As a victim of abuse myself, I hate them but I also understand they may not have chosen to have the feelings they have. I know for a fact one of my abusers was also abused when they were a kid. Fortunately I never got those desires (THANK GOD), but I def do have plenty of effed up sexual issues as a result of what happened to me. So in a way I can have empathy if they have desires that they never asked for. Now if they choose to act on those desires thats a whole different story. Also I cant honestly say Id be willing to have my kids around them. But I can still empathize with their plight in life.

_________________________________________
"Too weird to live.... too rare to die..."

IG: KnowOne215 | PS+ ID: KnowOne215

I think monsters are easier to process mentally than humans who do monstrous things.

Empathy is humanizing, which is why some are reluctant to extended it to pedophiles who haven't acted on their attractions.

>I think monsters are easier to process mentally than humans
>who do monstrous things.
>
>Empathy is humanizing,

_________________________________________
"Too weird to live.... too rare to die..."

IG: KnowOne215 | PS+ ID: KnowOne215

my own abuse makes it very hard for me to be impartial here.
You're a very brave man.

here for dis.

nm

_________________________________________
"Too weird to live.... too rare to die..."

IG: KnowOne215 | PS+ ID: KnowOne215

.
.
.
Speaking inspiration to your situations on Instagram @jeromejcase.

and only that God knows the hearts of those that act on their desires be they children or adults.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

just when i thought we'd all exhausted everything...here is a really tricky minefield of a discussion

it's fascinating to see folks talking all sides of it

d

giving the stipulation that I was referring only those who don't act on those urges. Some of the people in this post were on the other side of the debate back then. Not naming names because thoughtful people grow and opinions change.

they molesting everybody.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

nor am i inclined to understand his position.

i don't see the point of empathising something so blantantly injurious.

>i don't see the point of empathising something so blantantly
>injurious.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

and refers to a support org for pedophiles that exists outside OKP. so clearly this is not an 'only on OKP' thing. maybe in YOUR limited world it is and that's understandable. but in the world at-large there are ppl outside OKP who are willing to at least consider some limited empathy for pedophiles. and even within OKP there are scant few of us who are so willing. the majority of ppl who post here aren't ready to even consider it. so this is much of an 'only on OKP' thing at all.

fuck you.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

and if there is i don't care.

fuck you.

Nobody wants to address the deep spiritual or psychological impacts of early sexual contact, lack of parenting, lack of protection, lack of proper social development.


.
.
Speaking inspiration to your situations on Instagram @jeromejcase.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

The ones who say Oh youre not gay you can control your urges. That you just have to rebuke the devil.


This guy may not be Christian, but he's "proving" for you guys that it can be controlled even if you have those "sick" thoughts.

Checkmate. Wanna run it back?

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought