Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby General Discussion General Discussion Archives topic #185260

Subject: "Trans woman upset after her penis was detected at the airport" This topic is locked.
Previous topic | Next topic
SimplyHannah
Member since Aug 09th 2009
7225 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 11:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
"Trans woman upset after her penis was detected at the airport"


  

          

http://m.nydailynews.com/news/national/trans-woman-upset-tsa-scanners-flagging-body-anomaly-article-1.2369457

Do you think this situation could have been handled differently or were they legitimately just doing their jobs?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
i think it could've been handled differently.
Sep 23rd 2015
1
I've never interacted with a less professional organization than the TSA...
Sep 23rd 2015
45
      You know?
Sep 23rd 2015
48
What I don't understand is...
Sep 23rd 2015
2
have they never seen a penis on the scanner before?
Sep 23rd 2015
3
I don't think that was the issue
Sep 23rd 2015
4
you can tell how brainwashed we are when they've made us think
Sep 23rd 2015
7
"you never slid some dynamite/c4 up your urethra dog?!?!?!"
Sep 23rd 2015
8
      Cuhzzzzz that hurt
Sep 23rd 2015
40
but then her breasts are a problem.
Sep 23rd 2015
9
m'saying, like...they gotta be ready either way
Sep 23rd 2015
17
      that's how i see it.
Sep 23rd 2015
20
I was unaware that there was sex-based scanning
Sep 23rd 2015
12
have you ever flown? there's only one scanner.
Sep 23rd 2015
14
      Denver ... April ... 2015
Sep 23rd 2015
47
           That's grimey as hell. What the fuck was the female TSA in it for?
Sep 23rd 2015
51
they scan based on your sex...
Sep 23rd 2015
5
      She was being stubborn or trying to make a scene
Sep 23rd 2015
11
      who has to "skate"? if they don't know that there are people
Sep 23rd 2015
19
           They do know. And apparantly they tried to resolve it simply...
Sep 23rd 2015
21
                actually, they don't. there aren't two machines
Sep 23rd 2015
22
                     Look, I'm not going to pretend to understand this calibration business
Sep 23rd 2015
23
                          tweeting about something is unreasonable behavior?
Sep 23rd 2015
24
                               ok
Sep 23rd 2015
25
      what do you think they see?
Sep 23rd 2015
15
           how do tthey know that's not a woman smuggling drugs claiming
Sep 23rd 2015
29
                how do they know that's not a "man" smuggling drugs
Sep 23rd 2015
30
                     i don't know...was legit asking
Sep 23rd 2015
33
                          and that's my legit answer
Sep 23rd 2015
35
                               system can't handle shit. but we already know that.
Sep 24th 2015
79
with TSA agents missing weapons & stealing/trafficking....
Sep 23rd 2015
6
& the technology doesn't care if you're "male" or "female"
Sep 23rd 2015
10
nah man she was in the female scanner
Sep 23rd 2015
16
seems like if she read the transgender website or tsa rules
Sep 23rd 2015
13
Sure but it can only be handled but so many ways.
Sep 23rd 2015
18
wouldn't that scanner pick up that as still being flesh?
Sep 23rd 2015
26
No comment, except, my apathy is invalidated for a petty reason.
Sep 23rd 2015
27
Lol
Sep 23rd 2015
28
LoL
Sep 23rd 2015
31
*stands in this line*
Sep 23rd 2015
32
LOL
Sep 23rd 2015
34
bruhh
Sep 23rd 2015
36
word.
Sep 23rd 2015
37
LOL
Sep 23rd 2015
38
Add on the fact it's a grown ass man bruh smh.
Sep 23rd 2015
39
Misgendering is so funny!! Lulzephees!!!
Sep 23rd 2015
41
Lol sorry but I can't even pretend to fake-care about this shit enough..
Sep 23rd 2015
42
right. So why call her a man?
Sep 23rd 2015
43
      Just posting on a message board bruh.
Sep 23rd 2015
44
           i can't post too?
Sep 23rd 2015
46
                aight.
Sep 23rd 2015
49
                Right.
Sep 23rd 2015
50
                women don't have penises last I checked.
Sep 23rd 2015
56
Misgendering seems to be at the root of this whole issue...
Sep 23rd 2015
53
      i agree.
Sep 23rd 2015
54
      There are times when you have to get around the self-identify business
Sep 23rd 2015
60
           not really.
Sep 23rd 2015
61
                What do you mean change the settings?
Sep 23rd 2015
63
                     i mean add settings for trans men and trans women.
Sep 23rd 2015
65
                          Sounds like creating a solution for a problem that doesn't really exist
Sep 23rd 2015
66
                               k.
Sep 23rd 2015
68
                                    Are you for voter ID too? And drug testing for welfare recipients?
Sep 23rd 2015
71
                                         yup. sure.
Sep 23rd 2015
72
My G, the proper pronoun is, 'they'...are a grown ass man
Sep 23rd 2015
52
lmao
Sep 23rd 2015
55
someone tell boehner he isn't allowed to cry
Sep 25th 2015
82
Where did I say he wasn't allowed to cry?
Sep 25th 2015
125
just don't know when to stop, huh?
Sep 25th 2015
89
LOL
Sep 24th 2015
75
^
Sep 25th 2015
93
What about the poor guy that "detected" it, lol
Sep 23rd 2015
57
the same guy who probably pats down hundreds of dudes balls
Sep 23rd 2015
58
      it was a joke, most likely it was a female agent that did the pat down.
Sep 23rd 2015
59
      Tsa grabs sacs?
Sep 23rd 2015
62
I'm wondering if she was tucked.
Sep 23rd 2015
64
i assume they didn't clock her.
Sep 23rd 2015
67
      I agree. I don't think she was clocked before the scan but...
Sep 23rd 2015
69
           TSA's scanners don't produce those images.
Sep 23rd 2015
70
                Ah. I'm relieved but that info clouds my opinion of this incident a bit.
Sep 23rd 2015
73
This is so gross & humiliating...I hope she sues & gets guap.
Sep 24th 2015
74
wait now theres ANOTHER word to learn? misgender?
Sep 24th 2015
76
that's life for you.
Sep 24th 2015
77
      Maybe they should learn to stop making dumb mess up.
Sep 24th 2015
78
           if you want to pout and close your eyes and ears to nature
Sep 25th 2015
83
           what's dumb about it?
Sep 25th 2015
92
           transgender people arent imaginary
Sep 25th 2015
108
This is why I'm terrified when friends travel, nationally or internation...
Sep 24th 2015
80
Question...
Sep 24th 2015
81
agreed
Sep 25th 2015
84
this is somewhat reasonable suggestion
Sep 25th 2015
95
      i think it IS a big deal to the ppl who are humiliated.
Sep 25th 2015
96
           RE: i think it IS a big deal to the ppl who are humiliated.
Sep 25th 2015
99
                it CAN be 'humiliation free' if, you know, WE WOULD STOP
Sep 25th 2015
101
                     ^^^^ Lot of things were socially acceptable that are now considered
Sep 25th 2015
121
                          But this doesn't seem like a case of discrimination at all...
Sep 25th 2015
128
                          That didn't refer to the OP.
Sep 25th 2015
129
                          *demanding
Sep 25th 2015
135
Can someone explain how 'her penis' is a logical statement?
Sep 25th 2015
85
She's a woman, that was born anatomically male.
Sep 25th 2015
86
the 'boys have a penis/girls have a vagina' stuff they taught us in pre-...
Sep 25th 2015
87
      Does she have XY chromosome or XX ?
Sep 25th 2015
88
           still over simplifying
Sep 25th 2015
90
           :)
Sep 25th 2015
91
           Here's the thing and I'm not saying there aren't transgendered people
Sep 25th 2015
113
                there is no room for debate.
Sep 25th 2015
120
                     I know that's your stance but Rachel Dolzeal isn't black
Sep 25th 2015
130
                          This ain't about transracialism.
Sep 25th 2015
131
           why?
Sep 25th 2015
94
                I'm not a woman so I can't say what exactly womanhood is
Sep 25th 2015
106
                     so what?
Sep 25th 2015
107
                          I hear you, I'm not really coming from a 'what does it hurt?' angle
Sep 25th 2015
112
                               a'ight.
Sep 25th 2015
116
                                    You're right we should follow their lead
Sep 25th 2015
117
                                         ok i understand what you meant.
Sep 25th 2015
119
we get really dumb about stuff like this
Sep 25th 2015
97
i don't think the ppl who experience the humiliation are not
Sep 25th 2015
98
you mentioned the death by a 1000 cuts
Sep 25th 2015
100
      no we don't agree.
Sep 25th 2015
102
           k
Sep 25th 2015
103
                and i also have no problem w/us 'adding complexity' to
Sep 25th 2015
105
                     not every layer of complexity is beneficial
Sep 25th 2015
109
                     i dunno what that means.
Sep 25th 2015
118
                     that first paragraph fits me perfectly
Sep 25th 2015
111
I agree with this
Sep 25th 2015
104
      well my thing is, do we revamp the system for each person who
Sep 25th 2015
114
           Next we'll have to change all the buildings for people who want
Sep 25th 2015
122
           comparing self-identity to a handicap is problematic
Sep 25th 2015
123
           Would we agree if ppl had made the 'slippery slope' argument re: black
Sep 25th 2015
126
           for the record im not for mistreating anyone either...i simply posed
Sep 25th 2015
137
                We deal with those as they come.
Sep 25th 2015
140
                     fair enough.
Sep 25th 2015
141
           We don't know enough about trans people
Sep 25th 2015
127
                but that seems to be the big thing that comes up in these discussions...
Sep 25th 2015
133
                     Reread again... It does hurt them
Sep 25th 2015
143
                          i was saying its been asked 'who will it hurt if u just go along with
Sep 25th 2015
146
                               Oh, gotcha.
Sep 25th 2015
147
           really really bad comparison.
Sep 25th 2015
132
                The comparison was about accomodation it didn't compare trans to the dis...
Sep 25th 2015
134
                If a possible accomodation is just to do things setup up for their sex
Sep 25th 2015
138
                     fine.
Sep 25th 2015
139
                          You can engage me man. I don't know if I've been put on one of your list...
Sep 25th 2015
142
                               lol
Sep 25th 2015
144
                                    I'm with you on the sensitivity training...
Sep 25th 2015
148
                People literally made the same arguments that are in this post 100%
Sep 25th 2015
145
           There is no slippery slope.
Sep 25th 2015
124
the ignorance on here is amazing
Sep 25th 2015
110
Hannah Banana, good job posting and vamoosing
Sep 25th 2015
115
This whole thing boils down to a mechanical issue...
Sep 25th 2015
136

SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 12:07 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
1. "i think it could've been handled differently."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i think TSA needs to improve awareness among its employees and offer sensitivity training.

well, fuck 'training' and 'awareness'...the employees need to be held accountable and disciplined when they behave as they did here. b/c fuck that. also those machines that scan bodies a certain way depending on gender need to be recalibrated so trans ppl don't have to deal w/such unnecessary drama.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
21077 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 03:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
45. "I've never interacted with a less professional organization than the TSA..."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

Worse than the DMV

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 03:59 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
48. "You know?"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Starbaby Jones
Member since Mar 08th 2003
5034 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 12:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
2. "What I don't understand is..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

after seeing what was obviously her penis, why did they need to make it a big deal? They could've just said, there was an issue we just need to run you through the scanner once more. They didn't have to get into drawn out explanations or go out their way to keep reasserting her biological sex. Like, on the whole, this whole scenario just strikes me as rude and unnecessary. It didn't have to escalate to that point.

http://soundcloud.com/forestbrooks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Rjcc
Charter member
93576 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 12:22 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
3. "have they never seen a penis on the scanner before?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

it shouldn't be that tough to figure out

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
JellyBean
Charter member
16874 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 12:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
4. "I don't think that was the issue"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

From what I gathered, she went through a scanner that was calibrated for folks born with XX chromosomes. They were not expecting a penis to show up on the scan.

Despite how she chooses to live her life, she was still born with XY chromosomes and she should have gone through the scanner for folks with XY chromosomes.


Could they have been more delicate? Yes.
Should she have said something prior to going through the scanner? IMO, Absolutely.


"Holier than thou never sits well with me."(c)janey

"OKP spends way too much time looking for ways to be offended." ~legsdiamond


http://twitter.com/jeleighbean

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
J_Stew
Member since Jul 06th 2002
22363 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 12:35 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
7. "you can tell how brainwashed we are when they've made us think"
In response to Reply # 4


          

that going through a full body scanner should be standard operating procedure. Why is it important to know what the gender of a person traveling by airplane is?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
eclipsedInI
Member since Jul 29th 2002
92830 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 12:39 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
8. ""you never slid some dynamite/c4 up your urethra dog?!?!?!""
In response to Reply # 7


          

SHITS STELLAR!!!

_____________________
puttin' the roota in the toota since 98'

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51978 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 03:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
40. "Cuhzzzzz that hurt"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 12:39 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
9. "but then her breasts are a problem."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Rjcc
Charter member
93576 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 01:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
17. "m'saying, like...they gotta be ready either way"
In response to Reply # 9


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 01:17 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
20. "that's how i see it."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
131229 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 01:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
12. "I was unaware that there was sex-based scanning"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

in any case, fuck full body scans and the fuckin TSA

*Mega Man Menu Sound* as sTSA, holla at nutsack fam

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Rjcc
Charter member
93576 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 01:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
14. "have you ever flown? there's only one scanner."
In response to Reply # 4
Wed Sep-23-15 01:27 PM by Rjcc

          

also, you seem to not be well versed on chromosomes if you think that a. male and female correspond 100% to XX/XY

that there no other variations of that pair beyond XX/XY

and that XX/XY always present with the external features the scanner detects.

this is why the TSA agents were poorly trained.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
21077 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 03:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
47. "Denver ... April ... 2015"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

Two Transportation Security Administration screeners have been fired after conspiring to grope attractive men at Denver International Airport, Denver police said.

Here's how police say the scheme worked: When the male TSA officer noticed a man he found attractive, he would alert a female TSA officer.

The female officer would then tell the screening machine that a female passenger -- not a male -- was walking through. And that information would trigger a machine to register an anomaly in the groin area, prompting the male TSA officer to pat down the passenger, police said, citing a TSA investigation.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/15/travel/tsa-patdown-firings/

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Moonlit_Force
Member since Oct 10th 2005
8643 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 04:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
51. "That's grimey as hell. What the fuck was the female TSA in it for?"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
StephBMore
Member since Sep 11th 2014
1373 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 12:30 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
5. "they scan based on your sex..."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

her ID still says woman so when it scanned her, it detected something in her pants that shouldn't be. She explained the issue and they asked her to go back through for male detection and she said no, then refused to answer questions about her gender (fine), but I don't see the issue here.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15439 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 12:43 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
11. "She was being stubborn or trying to make a scene"
In response to Reply # 5


          

It's not like TSA was discriminating or trying to embarrass her by going through other scanner.
That is just what was required in order to do their job.

What did she want? For her to just skate through without being checked because she fits into a grey area?

_______________________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Rjcc
Charter member
93576 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 01:11 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
19. "who has to "skate"? if they don't know that there are people"
In response to Reply # 11


          

who don't fit the description of simply man/woman then they're not only dumb, but poorly and inadequately trained.


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15439 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 01:18 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
21. "They do know. And apparantly they tried to resolve it simply..."
In response to Reply # 19


          

by having her go through the machine with a male calibration (I don't quite understand the logistics of all this. I too assumed there was only one machine. But maybe there are two?)

She refused. Why would she refuse such a simple and reasonable request?

_______________________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Rjcc
Charter member
93576 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 01:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
22. "actually, they don't. there aren't two machines"
In response to Reply # 21


          

if simply going through the "male" calibration fixes it, why have a female calibration at all?

there's what you want her to undergo, and there's the facts of the situation.

they're different.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15439 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 01:27 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
23. "Look, I'm not going to pretend to understand this calibration business"
In response to Reply # 22


          

I don't know if it really exists, how it works, or why it exist?

I'm just going off what the article said. From the article it seems like she went through the female calibration and they spotted an "anomaly" (aka a penis) that had to be investigated.

She then told them she was born a man. They say okay, run through the thing under the male calibration. She refuses and cries and tweets.

Does that seem like a reasonable response from her?

_______________________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
Rjcc
Charter member
93576 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 01:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
24. "tweeting about something is unreasonable behavior?"
In response to Reply # 23


          

o...k....

I've seen people post stories here about being in tears or almost in tears about things far less traumatic than being held up 40 minutes by security.

if a penis on someone who they don't expect to have a penis gums up the works, then the system is broken and the employees are morons.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15439 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 01:40 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
25. "ok"
In response to Reply # 24


          

_______________________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Rjcc
Charter member
93576 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 01:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
15. "what do you think they see?"
In response to Reply # 5
Wed Sep-23-15 01:22 PM by Rjcc

          

I'm not sure how she refused to answer questions about her gender

>“That’s my penis,” she bluntly told a male TSA agent, explaining that she was transgender.

that's the answer.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57345 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 02:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
29. "how do tthey know that's not a woman smuggling drugs claiming"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

she's trans?

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Rjcc
Charter member
93576 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 02:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
30. "how do they know that's not a "man" smuggling drugs"
In response to Reply # 29


          

in a false penis?

if they cannot tell a penis from a bag of drugs then they're fucked.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57345 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 02:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
33. "i don't know...was legit asking"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
Rjcc
Charter member
93576 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 02:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
35. "and that's my legit answer"
In response to Reply # 33


          

if the system can't handle this, what the fuck can it handle?

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
ACRG
Member since Aug 21st 2007
3496 posts
Thu Sep-24-15 11:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
79. "system can't handle shit. but we already know that."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

o00o

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

eclipsedInI
Member since Jul 29th 2002
92830 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 12:32 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
6. "with TSA agents missing weapons & stealing/trafficking...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

we are in a post 9/11 world

& misgendering someone is REALLY important now

_____________________
puttin' the roota in the toota since 98'

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

eclipsedInI
Member since Jul 29th 2002
92830 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 12:42 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
10. "& the technology doesn't care if you're "male" or "female""
In response to Reply # 0


          

the TSA does

_____________________
puttin' the roota in the toota since 98'

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Rjcc
Charter member
93576 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 01:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
16. "nah man she was in the female scanner"
In response to Reply # 10


          

you know, the one you've seen every time you go to the airport.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57345 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 01:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
13. "seems like if she read the transgender website or tsa rules"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

things coulda went down differently.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 01:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
18. "Sure but it can only be handled but so many ways."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

esb225
Member since Nov 12th 2003
41415 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 01:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
26. "wouldn't that scanner pick up that as still being flesh? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

maybe I am not aware on how they work but it could not have been more than what 5 or 6 inches (more than likely smaller)and would/should appear as pretty much a tumor no?
thee is no metal in it or anything like that i'm missing something here

I got a good life man

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Cam
Charter member
13266 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 01:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
27. "No comment, except, my apathy is invalidated for a petty reason."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If you have the wherewithal, during distress, to take a selfie of your own crying face, I have a hard time trusting your portrayed emotional state.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57345 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 01:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
28. "Lol"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

>If you have the wherewithal, during distress, to take a
>selfie of your own crying face, I have a hard time trusting
>your portrayed emotional state.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
eclipsedInI
Member since Jul 29th 2002
92830 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 02:14 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
31. "LoL"
In response to Reply # 27


          

but the TSA ain't got no bodycams bruh!

_____________________
puttin' the roota in the toota since 98'

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Mynoriti
Charter member
36448 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 02:22 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
32. "*stands in this line*"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

>If you have the wherewithal, during distress, to take a
>selfie of your own crying face, I have a hard time trusting
>your portrayed emotional state.

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
BigReg
Charter member
62390 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 02:27 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
34. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Rjcc
Charter member
93576 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 02:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
36. "bruhh"
In response to Reply # 27


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
13030 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 02:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
37. "word."
In response to Reply # 27


          

>If you have the wherewithal, during distress, to take a
>selfie of your own crying face, I have a hard time trusting
>your portrayed emotional state.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 02:57 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
38. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
DJPoke
Member since May 14th 2008
1285 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 03:21 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
39. "Add on the fact it's a grown ass man bruh smh."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 03:31 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
41. "Misgendering is so funny!! Lulzephees!!!"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

Other than chuckles from the class clown brigade, what do you gain by misgendering here? And what would you lose if you recognize the woman's gender as she wishes?

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
DJPoke
Member since May 14th 2008
1285 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 03:45 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
42. "Lol sorry but I can't even pretend to fake-care about this shit enough.."
In response to Reply # 41
Wed Sep-23-15 03:46 PM by DJPoke

  

          

To argue. Great passion tho!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 03:47 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
43. "right. So why call her a man?"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

Especially since you don't care? Just for the giggles, I guess. Okay.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
DJPoke
Member since May 14th 2008
1285 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 03:55 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
44. "Just posting on a message board bruh."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

Is that ok with you?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 03:59 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
46. "i can't post too?"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

This is me posting.

I'm asking you what you gain when you disrespect this woman by misgendering her. You seem to be in it just for the lulz. I ask bc I'm curious. Your avoidance of the question can mean several things - I'll just take it to mean what I want.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
DJPoke
Member since May 14th 2008
1285 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 04:02 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
49. "aight."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 04:06 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
50. "Right."
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
ThaTruth
Charter member
93785 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 04:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
56. "women don't have penises last I checked."
In response to Reply # 46


          

>This is me posting.
>
>I'm asking you what you gain when you disrespect this woman by
>misgendering her. You seem to be in it just for the lulz. I
>ask bc I'm curious. Your avoidance of the question can mean
>several things - I'll just take it to mean what I want.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
9467 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 04:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
53. "Misgendering seems to be at the root of this whole issue..."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

because s/he has a penis, they (the airport folks) seem to want to recognize s/he as a man and havent bought into the fact that because she wants to be called a she, they should treat her as such...one of the many challenges that this issue creates

>Other than chuckles from the class clown brigade, what do you
>gain by misgendering here? And what would you lose if you
>recognize the woman's gender as she wishes?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 04:42 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
54. "i agree."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15439 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 05:15 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
60. "There are times when you have to get around the self-identify business"
In response to Reply # 53


          

and get down to genetics/anatomy.

This is one of those potential situations. If different screening methods are required for men and women*, then self-identification is irrelevant.
You got a penis, you are a man for these purposes of the screening (the very limited intersex cases may be dealt with accordingly)

*Notice I said "If". I know nothing of TSA's protocol and technology and I doubt anyone here does either*

_______________________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 05:16 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
61. "not really."
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

all TSA has to do is change the settings on the machines and train the staff who work the machines and perform the screenings.

easy peasy.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15439 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 05:19 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
63. "What do you mean change the settings?"
In response to Reply # 61


          

You mean change them to the settings for screening men?

>all TSA has to do is change the settings on the machines and
>train the staff who work the machines and perform the
>screenings.
>
>easy peasy.
>
>

_______________________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 05:25 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
65. "i mean add settings for trans men and trans women."
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

and/or change the settings removing the gender classifications altogether. i guess the point is when women go through the machine will flag the result if there's extra stuff in the crotch area. and when men are scanned the result is flagged if there's extra stuff around the chest. that seems pretty silly. but whatever. the point is - if the machines have been programmed as they are now they can be programmed to correct the problem seen in this case.

all it takes is the willingness to recognize the problem and correct it.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15439 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 05:29 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
66. "Sounds like creating a solution for a problem that doesn't really exist"
In response to Reply # 65


          

How often is this an issue?

_______________________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 05:30 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
68. "k."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15439 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 05:40 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
71. "Are you for voter ID too? And drug testing for welfare recipients?"
In response to Reply # 68
Wed Sep-23-15 05:42 PM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

          

Folks came up with solutions to those issues as well even though they were manufactured problems.

You are proposing implementing a different screening program (which will come at some cost) for a group of people that make up an estimated 0.3% of the population (many of which probably do not have any qualms with the existing procedures).

And it's not like by not implementing this proposed new system, transgenders will be excluded from air travel or be inconvenienced in any way.
All they would have to do is stand in a machine calibrated for their birth sex (i.e. use the existing system)

_______________________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 05:46 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
72. "yup. sure."
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Cam
Charter member
13266 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 04:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
52. "My G, the proper pronoun is, 'they'...are a grown ass man"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

I get what you mean, it's rare to see an adult, man or woman, sob in public like that because of feelings are hurt.

They is a Thesbian

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ThaTruth
Charter member
93785 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 04:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
55. "lmao"
In response to Reply # 39


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92693 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 10:29 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
82. "someone tell boehner he isn't allowed to cry"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

something is seriously wrong with y'all btw
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
DJPoke
Member since May 14th 2008
1285 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 05:12 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
125. "Where did I say he wasn't allowed to cry?"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Ashy Achilles
Member since Sep 22nd 2005
4059 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 12:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
89. "just don't know when to stop, huh?"
In response to Reply # 39


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Case_One
Charter member
54687 posts
Thu Sep-24-15 10:35 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
75. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 27


          


.
.
.
Speaking inspiration to your situations on Instagram @jeromejcase.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Ashy Achilles
Member since Sep 22nd 2005
4059 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 12:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
93. "^"
In response to Reply # 27


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

ThaTruth
Charter member
93785 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 04:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
57. "What about the poor guy that "detected" it, lol"
In response to Reply # 0


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Rjcc
Charter member
93576 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 04:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
58. "the same guy who probably pats down hundreds of dudes balls"
In response to Reply # 57


          

every day?

I feel like he'd get over it.

but I don't fantasize about suddenly seeing dicks come up on my nudie scanner

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ThaTruth
Charter member
93785 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 05:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
59. "it was a joke, most likely it was a female agent that did the pat down."
In response to Reply # 58


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
57345 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 05:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
62. "Tsa grabs sacs?"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

Only pat down that touched my johnson was clubs and police obviously.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Moonlit_Force
Member since Oct 10th 2005
8643 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 05:23 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
64. "I'm wondering if she was tucked."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Sep-23-15 05:32 PM by Moonlit_Force

  

          

'Cause that's the only way I'd see them being suspicious/oblivious to
what is obviously a penis (they see them all the time on these scans
presumably).

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 05:30 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
67. "i assume they didn't clock her."
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

so when the machine detected extra stuff in the crotch region she was flagged. TSA expected that since she's a woman there wouldn't be anything extra in that region. but the machine detected...something. and then she had to explain what's going on in her crotch.

if i were a trans woman w/a penis i guess i'd opt out of the machine screening and ask for a pat-down. if i were untucked (bc maybe i don't tuck, i dunno) i might explain to the screening TSA staff member that i'm 'pre-op trans' (maybe i'm not actually 'pre' anything if i plan to keep my penis but to make the transaction easier i'd use that word).

but ugh...why should they have to go through all of this in the first place? geez.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Moonlit_Force
Member since Oct 10th 2005
8643 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 05:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
69. "I agree. I don't think she was clocked before the scan but..."
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

...if the images these TSA's saw are anything remotely similar to this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=airport+scan+of+men&biw=1366&bih=667&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMI147nnJuOyAIVyTo-Ch2rYQp5#imgrc=_

A.) an untucked penis is readily identifiable and B.) she confirmed what they were seeing bluntly.

They did a whole a bunch of extra.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 05:39 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
70. "TSA's scanners don't produce those images."
In response to Reply # 69
Wed Sep-23-15 05:45 PM by SoWhat

  

          

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_body_scanner#.22No_nudity.22_full-body_scanner

"In the United States, pursuant to the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, all full-body scanners operated in airports by the Transportation Security Administration must use "Automated Target Recognition" software, which replaces the picture of a nude body with the cartoon-like representation. As a result of this rule, all backscatter X-ray machines formerly in use by the Transportation Security Administration were removed from airports, since the agency said the vendor (Rapiscan) did not meet their contractual deadline to implement the software."

so i assume the machine supplied a cartoon-like image of a woman but there was something going on in the crotch. like some extra padding or meat or something otherwise unexpected. so this woman was flagged for additional screening.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Moonlit_Force
Member since Oct 10th 2005
8643 posts
Wed Sep-23-15 05:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
73. "Ah. I'm relieved but that info clouds my opinion of this incident a bit."
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

no_i_cant_dance
Member since Apr 10th 2006
5577 posts
Thu Sep-24-15 07:07 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
74. "This is so gross & humiliating...I hope she sues & gets guap."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Maybe the visibility of this story + her white privilege will cause protocol changes so that trans folks can fly w/out being harassed & degraded like this *crosses fingers*.

<<Mood...Poppy Okotcha in Look 1 at Ashish Fall 2016
________________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7KBq0q5bU

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Binlahab
Charter member
182798 posts
Thu Sep-24-15 10:42 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
76. "wait now theres ANOTHER word to learn? misgender?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

damn son, i cant keep up


does it really matter?

wonder what bin's doing?
http://i.imgur.com/phECCMp.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Thu Sep-24-15 10:49 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
77. "that's life for you."
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

there's always something new to learn.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Case_One
Charter member
54687 posts
Thu Sep-24-15 11:26 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
78. "Maybe they should learn to stop making dumb mess up."
In response to Reply # 77


          

Oh, What you gonnna say SoWhat? What? Huh? What?


ROTFL



.
.
.
Speaking inspiration to your situations on Instagram @jeromejcase.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92693 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 10:31 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
83. "if you want to pout and close your eyes and ears to nature"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

because wha it hurts your feelings
go ahead
but aint nobody making shit up


cept for you and the crap you make up you want to follow wilynily
because otherwise your limited world view gets endangered

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Ashy Achilles
Member since Sep 22nd 2005
4059 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 12:54 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
92. "what's dumb about it?"
In response to Reply # 78


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
atruhead
Charter member
85026 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 02:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
108. "transgender people arent imaginary"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

pointing out that you've gone out of your way to label someone incorrectly isnt "making dumb stuff up" if you're any sort of intelligent

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Sarah_Bellum
Charter member
7488 posts
Thu Sep-24-15 07:06 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
80. "This is why I'm terrified when friends travel, nationally or internation..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This kinda shit happens all the time. All you need is one fucked up TSA agent to be extra and detain you for hours as a "security" precaution.
How is it a TSA agent, who screens hundreds of people a day, hasn't come across someone tucking or packing before? With that volume of people it can't be that unusual.

___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Sarah_Bellum
Charter member
7488 posts
Thu Sep-24-15 07:22 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
81. "Question..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I had no idea that the body scans were calibrated differently based on if the subject has male or female genitals. My guess is most people didn't know that because no TSA agent ever tells you that before you're scanned. They just send you on through.
So after they determined that they needed to use the calibration for male for this person, why did the agent need to specially tell her to go through the male calibration or else? Why not just send her through the machine again and not tell her shit, like they do everyone else who needs to be scanned twice, which happens frequently. I think they did that specifically to humiliate her.


____________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92693 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 10:32 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
84. "agreed"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

>I had no idea that the body scans were calibrated differently
>based on if the subject has male or female genitals. My guess
>is most people didn't know that because no TSA agent ever
>tells you that before you're scanned. They just send you on
>through.
> So after they determined that they needed to use the
>calibration for male for this person, why did the agent need
>to specially tell her to go through the male calibration or
>else? Why not just send her through the machine again and not
>tell her shit, like they do everyone else who needs to be
>scanned twice, which happens frequently. I think they did that
>specifically to humiliate her.




~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
45200 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 01:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
95. "this is somewhat reasonable suggestion"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

but they were surprised by the admission of the penis

so it's not like they were silently going to say...


"hmmm, crotch anomaly...let's assume it's a penis and KIM"

once that discussion was had...it's kinda assumed that any request to go back through is going to be offensive

i think this is another lose-lose that really isn't that big a deal in the end

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 01:14 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
96. "i think it IS a big deal to the ppl who are humiliated."
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

>i think this is another lose-lose that really isn't that big a
>deal in the end

especially b/c these incidents don't occur in a vacuum. many trans ppl fight this same fight daily - to be recognized as the person they are. this may seem like it's not a big deal but the aggregate of all of the 'little' incidents like this that a trans person may experience can be really rough. like death by a thousand cuts.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
45200 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 01:18 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
99. "RE: i think it IS a big deal to the ppl who are humiliated."
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

i mean...

no shit

my point is it shouldn't be...

it sucks being different...no amount of social acceptance is going to make gender dysphoria humiliation free

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 01:21 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
101. "it CAN be 'humiliation free' if, you know, WE WOULD STOP"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

humiliating them. LOL.

we are the assholes here. not them. it's our fault that they deal w/this humiliation. we choose to humiliate them for our own reasons. and none of those reasons are valid.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Sarah_Bellum
Charter member
7488 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 04:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
121. "^^^^ Lot of things were socially acceptable that are now considered "
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

unacceptable, even unconscionable. When has the fact that things will never be perfect and 100% discrimination free stopped anyone from demand better treatment?
No one should be told to expect and accept discrimination.

___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15439 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 05:24 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
128. "But this doesn't seem like a case of discrimination at all..."
In response to Reply # 121


          

That is unless you consider different screening procedures for males and females to be discriminatory.

They weren't preventing her from traveling. They weren't even really making it more difficult.

They simply wanted her to go through the machine again calibrated to deal with mass in the pelvic region.
Is that such a big deal? It sounds like a very logical request to me.

Then again I could be adding my own twist to the story and there may have been more going on.
But from the article, it seems like the situation was almost as simple as that

_______________________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 05:26 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
129. "That didn't refer to the OP."
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

It was a response to MR, not the OP.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
Sarah_Bellum
Charter member
7488 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 05:35 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
135. "*demanding "
In response to Reply # 121


  

          


___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 10:32 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
85. "Can someone explain how 'her penis' is a logical statement?"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Sep-25-15 10:32 AM by Atillah Moor

  

          

did she keep it in a jar or something?

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
SimplyHannah
Member since Aug 09th 2009
7225 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 10:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
86. "She's a woman, that was born anatomically male."
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

She didn't have gender re-assignment surgery, so she still has her penis.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 11:15 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
87. "the 'boys have a penis/girls have a vagina' stuff they taught us in pre-..."
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

was simplified b/c our educators and caretakers either weren't equipped to teach us the more complex truth or weren't prepared to accept the complexities themselves.

the full truth is some women have a penis and some men have a vagina. and some ppl have both a penis and a vagina. and some ppl don't have either. and some women who were born w/a penis now have a vagina. and some men who were born w/a vagina now have a penis. and this is still a bit of a simplification of the truth.

so yes, this woman has a penis. there are relatively few women in the world who have a penis but they exist.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 12:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
88. "Does she have XY chromosome or XX ?"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

And I'm asking that as someone in agreement with 95% of what you're typing, but I still hold to the notion that one is ultimately what their chromosomes say they are. So if one is XY with a vagina ok I get it and likewise if one is XX with a penis, but outside of that... I'm not sure what's going on there.

So for me it's easier to understand this person plight if she's genetically a woman who was born with a penis and is being harassed or vice versa.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92693 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 12:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
90. "still over simplifying"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

https://quizlet.com/35491178/ib140-sexual-differentiation-sex-gender-flash-cards/

solely from the intersex card

intersex - the cause in most cases of true gonadal intersex is unknown
- 46:XX karyotype in 70%
- 46:XY karyotype in 10%
- 46: XX/46:XY karyotype mosaicism in 20%
- 46:XX: aberrant recombinations result in X chromosomes carrying SRY, resulting in XX "males"
- 46:XY: aberrant recombinations result in Y chromosomes that have lost SRY, resulting in XY "females"
- typically the ovarian tissue is normal and the testicular tissue is dysgenetic. less often the opposite is true
- pregnancies with viable offspring have been reported in some 46:XX true intersex individuals
- a few cases have been documented of true intersex males who fathered children
- no documented cases of self-fertilization, as both viable eggs and sperm are not typically present in interest individuals

please look at the rest
nothing is always 100%

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Ashy Achilles
Member since Sep 22nd 2005
4059 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 12:54 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
91. ":)"
In response to Reply # 90


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 02:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
113. "Here's the thing and I'm not saying there aren't transgendered people "
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

If you have a man's chromosome's, a man's skeleton, and a man's anatomy (without diversion) -- I mean where is there room for debate?

I don't think everyone that claims transgendered necesarilly is. not saying that's the case here.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 04:52 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
120. "there is no room for debate."
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

a person is transgender if they say so. period. no debate.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 05:27 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
130. "I know that's your stance but Rachel Dolzeal isn't black"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

Just because she says she is (which isn't the best example). Some of us are men and some of us are women and sone of us are somewhere in between. What's wrong with an object being that object? I mean male and female identification is pjust as important as any other type of identity, personally I don't believe it's an arbitrary thing.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 05:29 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
131. "This ain't about transracialism."
In response to Reply # 130
Fri Sep-25-15 05:32 PM by SoWhat

  

          

a person is transgender if they say so. Accepting it only helps trans and doesn't hurt anyone. Meanwhile rejecting the idea causes trans ppl enormous pain that need not exist.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 12:56 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
94. "why?"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

What do you gain by refusing to identify her as she asks? What would you lose if you accept her womanhood without regard for her chromosomes?

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 01:40 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
106. "I'm not a woman so I can't say what exactly womanhood is "
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

nor what it means to be a woman, but I believe that whatever it truly is at it's core is something far greater than saying "I feel like a woman" and then taking a bunch of hormones or putting on a dress, getting surgery, to try and mimic what you see actual women possessing physically, emotionally, etc.

There is a difference between us (men and women) and sure there is a gray area and maybe this person falls into that, but to me if that's the case I don't know if calling that person a woman or man just because "they feel like one" as the case may be is the right thing.

Maybe these folks need their own classification that is neither man nor woman and if that is "transgender" at it's root then ok I can understand that. Basically why can't it be men, women, and then the folks in between (or is that it)?

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 01:42 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
107. "so what?"
In response to Reply # 106
Fri Sep-25-15 01:44 PM by SoWhat

  

          

>I don't know if calling that
>person a woman or man just because "they feel like one" as the
>case may be is the right thing.

what difference does it make? what happens if calling her a woman is the 'wrong thing'? who or what is hurt? who suffers if she's 'improperly' called a woman by her own choice?

oh...and plenty trans ppl DO identify as 'trans woman' or 'trans man'. some identify other ways. and there are also intersexed ppl who identify as such.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 02:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
112. "I hear you, I'm not really coming from a 'what does it hurt?' angle"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

But I think it's important for folks to have an identity that lends itself to them feeling understood and I don't think the current approach really lends itself to that (it still appears to be a very binary approach which doesn't seem adequate) -- so I guess in light of that statement I think it hurts the transgendered by not giving them and those who are not transgendered a sort of common point of reference.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 04:23 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
116. "a'ight."
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

>But I think it's important for folks to have an identity that
>lends itself to them feeling understood

word. and they have those.

and I don't think the
>current approach really lends itself to that (it still
>appears to be a very binary approach which doesn't seem
>adequate)

i dunno what this means.

some trans ppl identify as 'man' or 'woman'. some as 'trans man' or 'trans woman'. and some use even others. generally it's best for us to follow THEIR lead. and to identify them using whatever term or terms THEY prefer. it doesn't help them for us to force them to use some identifier that makes US feel more comfortable.

-- so I guess in light of that statement I think it
>hurts the transgendered by not giving them and those who are
>not transgendered a sort of common point of reference.

i dunno that we need a common point of reference given what i said above - we should follow THEIR lead.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
13825 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 04:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
117. "You're right we should follow their lead"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

the point I was trying to make is that if one is transgender then to just say "I'm a man" or "I'm a woman" maybe isn't quite accurate enough given whatever the circumstances may be? We likely don't agree on that, but that hopefully better clarifies what I was getting at.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 04:35 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
119. "ok i understand what you meant."
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
45200 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 01:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
97. "we get really dumb about stuff like this"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the scanner doesn't really calibrate for men/women

it calibrates for male/female

at this point we really have little to no need for the men/women distinction when it comes these types of things...especially when the anatomical differences are what's important

smh...sensitivity training will be great but people still won't get it...and even when they do...people will still be easily offended and hypersensitive

it's like we keep adding complexities to shit we already have a clusterfuck of cogntive dissonance around

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 01:16 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
98. "i don't think the ppl who experience the humiliation are not"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

hypersensitive or easily offended. i think they're properly offended by these incidents. and the onus should be on TSA and others to be sensitive to these ppl's concerns.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
45200 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 01:20 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
100. "you mentioned the death by a 1000 cuts"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

this was a cut...

when you start treating death like the paper cut...

yes, it's an empathy-inducing hypersensitivity

but still hypersensitive

but feel free to continue to debate things we essentially agree on despite having different expectations for reasonable social interactions

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 01:22 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
102. "no we don't agree."
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

b/c you think these ppl are hypersensitive and i disagree w/you.

i think they're properly offended and that all of us who humiliate these ppl are in the wrong.

it's why i keep asking ppl who insist on misgendering what they're gaining when they misgender. what is the point of it? i don't see it.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
45200 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 01:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
103. "k"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 01:34 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
105. "and i also have no problem w/us 'adding complexity' to"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

already complex issues.

that's life. that's ppl. we're complex. it can be frustrating especially for ppl like us who like to think we're on the right side of everything and have it all mostly figured out and we've already rolled credits are all up in the happily-ever-after when it comes to taking stances on key social issues. we're progressive and of that. so i think when we have to learn new info that challenges some of our previously-held right and reasonable stances it's like...UGH. we want to reject that stuff. b/c we already figured it all out. and now we learn that maybe we didn't know as much as we thought. and we get frustrated and want the complexities to just END b/c we've already done the hard work and we're already more right than our parents and other elders so who are these new ppl to come along and tell us we're wrong or we don't know what we know we know? it's too much!

i'm speaking for me b/c i've experienced this pretty often - especially when it comes to queer issues. i was a queer political warrior in the 90s. i did the work and helped shape minds and get ppl right about queer theoretical shit but in recent years these young whipper-snappers are re-examining some of the theories we created in the 90s and they're forging their own paths and won't just walk the roads we paved for them. and it's like - HOW DARE THEY? b/c don't they know *i'm* one of the good ones?? i'm an ally! i'm on their side! they can't challenge ME!! LOL.

anyway, i have to tell myself that life is about learning (if i'm lucky) and this is part of the process. new complexities. new ideas that challenge the old ones. even old ones w/which *i'm* comfortable. i can resist all of this change if i want but then the world will pass me by. which might be okay too. when i'm ready i see myself sitting on a porch in a rocking chair and watching it all.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
45200 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 02:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
109. "not every layer of complexity is beneficial"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

i think sometimes some layers need to be stripped

i think some things come standard with misunderstandings

i think the distinction should be emphasized between gender and sex but i think sometimes we in our attempts to correct or take offense to reasonable mistakes doesn't help

male/female should be used in this case...that might still have caused humiliation...anyone who suffers gender dysmorphia and hasn't opted for the operations is likely due some misunderstandings...some of which will be humiliating no matter how socially sensitive one is

i feel like those who have suffered 1000 cuts have a challenge to not be offended by those moments and those that do make misguided assumptions to be more understanding of why these situations could be offensive

i understand these things don't happen in a vaccuum but that's just social interactions...anything that makes you different can present awkward scenarios

if she was a cis-woman and just happened to have a real flapjacky FUPA...she'd still likely be offended lol

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 04:34 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
118. "i dunno what that means."
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

>i think the distinction should be emphasized between gender
>and sex but i think sometimes we in our attempts to correct or
>take offense to reasonable mistakes doesn't help

i think it's fine to correct and offense may even be appropriate depending on the context. sometimes ppl offend even when they don't mean to do so - that's when correction is needed. i understand it's frustrating to be corrected when one is actually trying to be sensitive and not offensive. but that's where empathy comes in. i'm fine w/being corrected by trans ppl when i say the wrong thing. i prefer it when i'm corrected w/patience and some understanding - and that's usually what i get possibly b/c i don't present as someone who's bent on disrespect.

>male/female should be used in this case...that might still
>have caused humiliation...anyone who suffers gender dysmorphia

i think gender dysmorphia should be removed from the DSM as a disorder b/c it unnecessarily stigmatizes trans. i hope we see that day soon - like w/the DSM6.

>and hasn't opted for the operations is likely due some
>misunderstandings...some of which will be humiliating no
>matter how socially sensitive one is

again...none of that is necessary. we can fix that. that's on us, not them. but yes, trans generally understand and expect some level of hurt from ppl who misunderstand them and their issues.

>i feel like those who have suffered 1000 cuts have a challenge
>to not be offended by those moments and those that do make
>misguided assumptions to be more understanding of why these
>situations could be offensive

nah. i think those of us who do the cutting have the duty to not cut.

>i understand these things don't happen in a vaccuum but that's
>just social interactions...anything that makes you different
>can present awkward scenarios

yes. and when those scenarios arise that's when correction is needed. i'm quite sure trans decide when and where to correct and when to let go. i do that as a gay man - just the other day a lawyer made an offensive, homophobic, off-the-cuff statement to me probably b/c he doesn't know i'm gay. i didn't correct him in that moment b/c it wasn't worth it - he's not important enough to me that i felt the need to tell him i was offended and to address the offensiveness of his statement. i moved on. however, that lawyer i just mentioned made that offensive joke in the presence of yet another lawyer who'd previously told me an offensive gay joke. i handled that guy in THAT moment b/c i like him (and he's handsome and i wanted to feel him out to see if maybe i have a shot w/him) so i corrected him. he took it in stride and we're cool. and i suspect he may have told that first lawyer what's up after the 3 of us parted - b/c i heard him wince when that first lawyer made the offensive statement. LOL. anyway, i'm sure trans do the same - pick their battles.

>if she was a cis-woman and just happened to have a real
>flapjacky FUPA...she'd still likely be offended lol

she might be and rightfully so.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
Ashy Achilles
Member since Sep 22nd 2005
4059 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 02:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
111. "that first paragraph fits me perfectly"
In response to Reply # 105


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Paps_Smear
Member since Feb 02nd 2009
4232 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 01:27 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
104. "I agree with this"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

>it's like we keep adding complexities to shit we already have
>a clusterfuck of cogntive dissonance around


=================
Official Okay-Super Villain™

I only play the games that I win at -
Gamertag: Innovator
PSN: DurtyGambino
Steam: Durty Gambino
Twitch.tv/durtygambino

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
9467 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 02:49 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
114. "well my thing is, do we revamp the system for each person who"
In response to Reply # 104
Fri Sep-25-15 02:50 PM by mikediggz

  

          

comes up with a new way to 'self-identify'? every time someone comes up with a new word or concept should TSA (and the public at large) be expected to adjust accordingly to satisfy each individual and case? where do we draw the line? or do we draw the line?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Sarah_Bellum
Charter member
7488 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 05:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
122. "Next we'll have to change all the buildings for people who want "
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

accommodations for their wheel chairs. It's really too much to ask.

___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
45200 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 05:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
123. "comparing self-identity to a handicap is problematic"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

even though i mostly agree with the need for society to be more accommodating i do think it's reasonable for misunderstandings like the one above to be within the range of expected

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 05:18 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
126. "Would we agree if ppl had made the 'slippery slope' argument re: black"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

civil rights?

I know I wouldnt.

And as for his concern - it's not valid. There is no such thing as a slippery slope. And if there is that's no reason to mistreat a group of ppl - bc others who are also mistreated might have to be accommodated in the future. It's an argument made by conservatives and other reactionary folks who are resistant to change.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
9467 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 05:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
137. "for the record im not for mistreating anyone either...i simply posed"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

a question...how far do we go with the accommodations? if a system is put into place that seems to cover all the bases, and then a new description comes up the next day, do we go back to the drawing board?

>civil rights?
>
>I know I wouldnt.
>
>And as for his concern - it's not valid. There is no such
>thing as a slippery slope. And if there is that's no reason to
>mistreat a group of ppl - bc others who are also mistreated
>might have to be accommodated in the future. It's an argument
>made by conservatives and other reactionary folks who are
>resistant to change.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 05:50 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
140. "We deal with those as they come. "
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

Worry about those has no bearing on the current discussion.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
9467 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 05:54 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
141. "fair enough."
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Sarah_Bellum
Charter member
7488 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 05:20 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
127. "We don't know enough about trans people "
In response to Reply # 123
Fri Sep-25-15 05:24 PM by Sarah_Bellum

  

          

to assume that it all simply boils down to... "self identification"
If people could simply stop being trans, like they could change their trans-ness by simply taking off a bra or timbs, they wouldn't be killing themselves and suffering like they do when they are forced to conform to an assigned gender.
We used to think that gay folks could just stop being gay if they wanted to. Most reasonable people don't believe that anymore.
Most trans-people I know don't feel like it is a choice. They are trans no matter if they dress outwardly with society requirements or against it.

I'd liken it to being black and putting on a dashiki. Without the dashiki you're still black. You express your blackness through your outward appearance. If someone said you couldn't wear a dahsiki in the airport becaus it was too black, obviously that's discriminatory and a problem.

___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
9467 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 05:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
133. "but that seems to be the big thing that comes up in these discussions..."
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

why not go along with s/he if they choose to identify themselves as X or Y? who will it hurt? thats why i brought up that issue

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
Sarah_Bellum
Charter member
7488 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 05:58 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
143. "Reread again... It does hurt them"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

Having to suppress who you are, your agency, the ability to own yourself for fear of violence and discrimination is damaging to the psyche, anyone's psyche. Example: A Jew who passes for a German during ww2 to survive doesn't come out exactly peaches on the other side, even though the only thing separated many Eastern European Jews from Germans was not blood, but an invisible religious belief. Most shared family trees shared.
No agency, no ability to self determine the most basic aspects of yourself is damaging. If anyone should understand this its black folks.

The violence against trans people is so high that most people can't fathom that such a small population could sustain so much death and still keep on fighting. That should tell you right there, it ain't as simple as sucking it up and putting on some timbs.

___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
9467 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 06:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
146. "i was saying its been asked 'who will it hurt if u just go along with"
In response to Reply # 143


  

          

however a trans person chooses to identify' and the answer is it wont hurt anyone, which i get...and im not for any mistreatment of anyone...im just learning and find the dialog and perspectives interesting

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
Sarah_Bellum
Charter member
7488 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 06:18 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
147. "Oh, gotcha."
In response to Reply # 146


  

          


___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
9467 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 05:31 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
132. "really really bad comparison."
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 05:35 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
134. "The comparison was about accomodation it didn't compare trans to the dis..."
In response to Reply # 132
Fri Sep-25-15 05:35 PM by SoWhat

  

          

Specifically the comparison was about the claimed impossibility of accommodating trans which sounds like arguments made against accommodating the disabled. We see how that went - the disabled are increasingly accommodated and the world is still turning. The same can happen with trans. We can survive their accomodation.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15439 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 05:46 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
138. "If a possible accomodation is just to do things setup up for their sex"
In response to Reply # 134


          

What sense does it make to create extra accommodations?

It would be nonsensical to engineer a new setting or have a separate screening tool when there is an easy, straightforward solution.

_______________________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 05:48 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
139. "fine."
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15439 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 05:55 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
142. "You can engage me man. I don't know if I've been put on one of your list..."
In response to Reply # 139
Fri Sep-25-15 05:56 PM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

          

But I'm open to changing my opinion on things. And actually have changed my thoughts based off okp.

I don't think what I said was out of line. But you dismiss it like it is crazy talk.


_______________________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 06:00 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
144. "lol"
In response to Reply # 142


  

          

I'll try, I guess.

But that issue was discussed above - they can calibrate the machines so they don't screen by gender or sex, they can train TSA screening staff to be more sensitive to the concerns of trans who will be screened by the machines or otherwise. None of it is difficult - TSA just needs the will to address the problem.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15439 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 06:44 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
148. "I'm with you on the sensitivity training..."
In response to Reply # 144
Fri Sep-25-15 06:46 PM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

          

I can't tell if TSA acted inappropriately here from the article. But if the trans distinction is an issue that they may run into, they need procedures to deal with it respectfully.

But I believe accommodations should be made if they are reasonable.
We're over here talking about calibration like we know what the hell we're talking about.

If it's as easy as you say it is, then sure, do it. Fix the machines to deal with these cases.

But if it is not so simple, why invest so much effort (and money) in something that be resolved with existing technology?

In this situation maybe they could be more discreet. Or hell, don't tell her anything. Just tell her go through the machine again (no explanation necessary).
Everyone here had no idea the screen differently for men and women. Why tell her?





_______________________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Sarah_Bellum
Charter member
7488 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 06:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
145. "People literally made the same arguments that are in this post 100%"
In response to Reply # 132
Fri Sep-25-15 06:20 PM by Sarah_Bellum

  

          

impossible to accommodate them because...

there are a million varieties of disability... there are just too many types for everyone to expect to be accommodated.

what if we have to accommodate something crazy and extra... like dogs where they don't belong, like in a restaurant!

It would cost too much... billions of dollars even!

It was silly to accommodate them because aren't enough of them to warrant such a change.

If we change shit for the disabled who's next...
___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 05:11 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
124. "There is no slippery slope."
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

atruhead
Charter member
85026 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 02:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
110. "the ignorance on here is amazing"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

mind you, I haven't read the story in question

but the replies are wild

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
21953 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 03:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
115. "Hannah Banana, good job posting and vamoosing"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15439 posts
Fri Sep-25-15 05:36 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
136. "This whole thing boils down to a mechanical issue..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I understand her taking offense. She is a woman why must she go through procedures setup for a man.

But as someone said above. This is a male/female issue, not man/woman.

A fat person can self identify as a slim person. But they are still going to have to buy two tickets on the airplane.
Not for discriminatory reasons or in order to humiliate them.
It is simply mechanical. That is how the machines/seats work.

_______________________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Lobby General Discussion General Discussion Archives topic #185260 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com