My wife and I went to Wal-Mart yesterday during lunch and we saw two women in hijabs and I tensed the fuck up. The Wal-Mart is a short ride from the shooting. I wanted to leave there and then.

I've always been fairly reasonable on this subject but now that it's hitting me at home I can't help but feel anger toward "them" and not just the shooters. I recognize the myriad issues of logic but I can't shake it so far.

I didn't know any of the victims personally but they are and were my co-workers. I have friend who works with autistic kids from IRC. The shootout happened near my mother mother in laws home. The shooter lived near a friend. If it seems like I feel like that could have been me or friends or family, that's probably the truth. My wife and I are both civil servants. We don't have windows at our desk. Our guards are not armed. The victims are/were fellow SB county employees. This is close enough for my comfort, that's for damn sure.

We are San Bernardino County employees and we closed all but the most necessary services today and tomorrow. It was a relief to have the day off at first but now that I've had some time alone to reflect there's a lot more to sort through than I thought. I'm in Redlands at a cafe Rio and saw an Arab-looking man and actually wondered if he knew the shooter.

I have a friend who absolutely mistrust all Muslims and goes back to some fatwa from like 1918 as his proof. I've always been a counterpoint to his rants but today when he said this only confirmed his suspicions I said nothing. His daughter is the friend who lived near the shooter so I imagine that really added to his fears.

The truth is these fucks were terrorists, but no more than the fuck who shot up planned parenthood or Sandy hook or the Batman movie and yet I don't see a white face and fear him blowing me and my loved one's to bits. I fear him if he's a police officer, but that's another matter I suppose.

I don't think I'm in danger of falling into that anti-muslim hysteria but damn if I don't understand the sentiment a little better today.

A guy was open carrying at the liquor store when I went in Tuesday so I went and pretended to look at some shit in the back of the store (near an emergency exit) until he left even though I damn well knew what I wanted and it would take 15 seconds to pick up and walk to the register. I didn't really think he was about to shoot up the place but I didn't want to be near him and wanted to be near an exit.

I'm choosing to take this post as a confession thursday of sorts about our semi-irrational (or outright irrational) behaviors in the wake of local shooting sprees, so that's mine.

i still blame hip-hop.

I don't want to foster hysteria or invite overly liberal pc police and that's a strong possibility there. I just wanted to vent my currently irrational feelings and hopefully have some reasonable dialogue and you came through. Kudos.

I think the seeds to a solution may lie somewhere embedded in the acceptance of these irrational fears as irrational fears.

And we all have feelings that we're not proud of.

Better to confront them than internalize hem and give in to prejudice, so far as I can tell.

i still blame hip-hop.

You have a gun on your hip and trying to have a regular conversation with me? Not gonna happen.
Half of my mind is going to be focused on that gun.

_______________________________________

If those dudes are coming in or out the door, I'll wait a minute to go into an establishment. When I went to Arizona and saw everyone carrying openly, I was like WTF is this? Made me very uncomfortable.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

kemars/hijab.

It runs pretty deep here. A lot of Philly Black culture has Muslim influences.

I don't have a soft spot but I seen them all the time in Philly and see a few each day in Charlotte.

I'm from Pittsburgh and growing up it was white and black, Italians and Polish. Most of my idler family are real conservative and have old school views on muslims...

but I went to a college with a nice sized Muslim population and been around them damn near 20 years.

ionno.. I really don't view radical muslims like the people I know or knew who are muslim.


it would be like me seeing white people as the Klan since I live down south.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

by consistent neutral to positive contact with any type of group, you will have negative reactions to the actions of a few and buy into the public hysteria surrounding a particular 'threat group'

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

"I feel afraid of black people right now because ______" and actually confront the feeling than just internalize it?

I'm not saying it's a good conclusion to come to but CT seems to be approaching this with almost a contempt for that feeling while still acknowledging the feelings exist and he's noticing them in himself.

It just seems more productive to bring your reactionary emotions and fears into the light to address them than internalizing them.

Maybe that's naive.

i still blame hip-hop.

I would have an open conversation with someone racist against blacks if they showed a similar contempt for the idea of their feelings. So i think its good that he said it. His post does have a different feeling than truths.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

Near Barclays and all the muslim shops on Atlantic avenue. Can hear the chants from the mosque during the day. And see people praying. I've never gotten this feeling and I moved there just a few years after 9/11.

This morning I was in a cab with a muslim driver and I decided not to discuss the shooting with my wife but that was more out of a concern of not making it awkward for everyone.


Anyway, you hit the nail on the head.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I definitely don't discuss anything political with him

We mostly just make fun of the Italian barbers

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

in full-on burqa (http://i.dawn.com/primary/2014/04/5358f5a683693.jpg?r=179869627). i take it in stride. i see them out and about doing regular stuff.

fuck you.

don't succumb to that fear and allow it to consume you.

you'll see others around you succumbing to theirs. stand strong. b/c allowing that fear to result in unreasonable suspicion of Arab Muslims won't keep you safe. it won't keep us safe. it will just feed mistreatment of Muslims. which could actually result in us being less safe as the mistreatment could rile up and radicalize folks all over the world and right here in the USA. and those radicalized folks might take action against us.

^ i posted this in that big SB shooting post.

fuck you.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>don't succumb to that fear and allow it to consume you.
>
>you'll see others around you succumbing to theirs. stand
>strong. b/c allowing that fear to result in unreasonable
>suspicion of Arab Muslims won't keep you safe. it won't keep
>us safe. it will just feed mistreatment of Muslims. which
>could actually result in us being less safe as the
>mistreatment could rile up and radicalize folks all over the
>world and right here in the USA. and those radicalized folks
>might take action against us.
>
>^ i posted this in that big SB shooting post.

Just IMO though.

>don't succumb to that fear and allow it to consume you.
>
>you'll see others around you succumbing to theirs. stand
>strong. b/c allowing that fear to result in unreasonable
>suspicion of Arab Muslims won't keep you safe. it won't keep
>us safe. it will just feed mistreatment of Muslims. which
>could actually result in us being less safe as the
>mistreatment could rile up and radicalize folks all over the
>world and right here in the USA. and those radicalized folks
>might take action against us.

____________________________

http://instagram.com/yogikenan
http://instagram.com/shotbykenan
http://stackoverflow.com/users/43089/triptych
http://github.com/djtriptych

to a reasonable place. Stopping the convo just makes it worst. There are plenty of people here to fight bigotry talk. This ain't Stormfront.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

But i hope it stays up

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

I suppose half of this was pouring out my thoughts on how close to home this was for me in many ways. I think that's what fueled this feeling of.... I dunno.

Mistrust? I mistrust cops as a whole and always have. Probably always will. But this just feels different. I think I want to see some greater denouncement of this by the muslim community yet I haven't even looked around to see if that's occurred.

Again, I think this is a temoorary emotional reaction that will subside within a few days. I don't think I'm on the path of anti-muslim hyster2. I hope that conflict came across correctly.

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

I suppose half of this was pouring out my thoughts on how close to home this was for me in many ways. I think that's what fueled this feeling of.... I dunno.

Mistrust? I mistrust cops as a whole and always have. Probably always will. But this just feels different. I think I want to see some greater denouncement of this by the muslim community yet I haven't even looked around to see if that's occurred.

Again, I think this is a temoorary emotional reaction that will subside within a few days. I don't think I'm on the path of anti-muslim hyster2. I hope that conflict came across correctly.

>to a reasonable place. Stopping the convo just makes it
>worst. There are plenty of people here to fight bigotry talk.
>This ain't Stormfront.

the other post was deleted because of bigoted rhetoric by its author in the OP. we don't fight bigoted rhetoric here, we simply toss it out.




*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

(This was my reply to ThaTruth in the earlier post that got deleted between typing it out and hitting POST, copied and pasted.)

I appreciate that I am able to experience a culture (in whatever ways i can as an outsider) that most people dont understand or even see in their day to day lives. Headwraps, prayer calls, arabic signage everywhere...thats normal life for me. Its weird to think there are so many people in the world who are so scared of it.

nothing any religious zealots do would ever change that

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

I have dealt with have been the kindest humblest cats I have ever met.

That's one of the coolest thing I get from my understanding of islam, humility is a core tenant (from what I understand) and you see it in alot of muslims.

To be clear I didn't say muslim people are the most humble kindest people because that's another type of stereotyping generalization but my experience still stands.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

But then again, being around so much mainstream Islam, you see a ton of people who have the same casual approach to their religion as you do in Christianity.

People sinning their asses off lol

I knew a girl in college whose Palestinian dad used to have 1 night a month of gambling, drinking, and pork eating. Just because its fun.

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

>
>I knew a girl in college whose Palestinian dad used to have 1
>night a month of gambling, drinking, and pork eating. Just
>because its fun.

Like they are all equally bad. But just imaging someone chowing down on some pork chops once a month is so funny

_______________________________________

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

One time a woman fully covered on the train made me almost straight up panic. I was aware it was totally nonsensical, but couldn't control the temporary bout of fear.

But I was around the Muslim community in Brooklyn at length and that helped me get over that weird tendency

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

or really more like exposure is fatal to prejudice.

people use heuristics more than real logic in their day to day thinking. so limited exposure limits perspective.

not to downplay your contribution or insult you in any way, but your experience with Muslims as regular people makes that your normal perspective. In a different community with less exposure that's more difficult. Not to excuse Islamophobes or anything, but where you've come from and what you've seen matters.

i still blame hip-hop.

I wasnt trying to hold it over anyones head or shame them or something. If you arent around it, you just around it.

I actually dont think much of America even knows that such a place exists. John Q Redstate yelling about the Islamization of America on Facebook would have a proxysmal attack ending in brain asplosion if he walked around East Dearborn for 5 minutes. I feel pretty confidently that the average poster here would be a little weirded out for 5 minutes and then it would be whatever.

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

>I wasnt trying to hold it over anyones head or shame them or
>something. If you arent around it, you just around it.

No doubt, I didn't think you were.

I feel pretty confidently that the average poster
>here would be a little weirded out for 5 minutes and then it
>would be whatever.

I had an experience like this in Marseille, France, kind of. I was (dumbly, whitely?) trying to ride a bike from Florence, Italy to Pamplona Spain and got pretty sick North of Marseille and couldn't find a hotel or hostel. So I ride south through the city and after what seemed like hours of riding in less and less light through what seemed like probably projects I finally find a hotel and it's a super Muslim area, hotel has a crescent moon and star, al jazeera on the TV, all that shit. I'm so tired and sick I'm hopeful for any place I can lie down, so I get over my apprehensiveness. It wasn't a great hotel by any means and the people working there seemed surprised at my appearance (lone American in full bike gear, at night, they had every right to be surprised) but nobody made me feel anything less than welcome.

I was definitely in heightened awareness mode for a little while at the beginning (which I was on a lot anyway, alone in foreign countries on a bike) but there's no reason to keep that up when you start realizing the people who feel foreign to you intend you no ill or harm.

i still blame hip-hop.

And affraid of Muslims. You done drank the Kool Aid.

time is money, money is time
so i keep 7 o'clock in the bank and gain interest in the hour of God
I'm saving to buy my freedom, God, grant me wings, I'm too fly not to fly _ Saul Williams

***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

when I would see citizens dressed in traditional muslim garments

I felt sorry for them imagining all of the BS that they suddenly were probably dealing with

suspicion
gleering eyes
and probably outright harrassment

when it was all good just a week ago

from the little bit of info that's been provided to date

IDK how people are making the entire jump to blaming Islam

dude was born here.

there is some talk of a recent trip to Pakistan, but w/o more details, it just sounds like dude went postal, IMO.

anyway

I wish people in this country were as focused on fixing the mass shooting problem as they are on blaming Islam.

or at least be consistent and blame radical christianity when people shoot up churches and PP

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

>when I would see citizens dressed in traditional muslim
>garments
>
>I felt sorry for them imagining all of the BS that they
>suddenly were probably dealing with
>
>suspicion
>gleering eyes
>and probably outright harrassment
>
>from the little bit of info that's been provided to date
>
>IDK how people are making the entire jump to blaming Islam
>
>dude was born here.
>
>there is some talk of a recent trip to Pakistan, but w/o more
>details, it just sounds like dude went postal, IMO.
>
>anyway
>
>I wish people in this country were as focused on fixing the
>mass shooting problem as they are on blaming Islam.
>
>or at least be consistent and blame radical christianity when
>people shoot up churches and PP


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

fuck you.

but the wife riding shotgun smells like some radical shit.

this country will never go at radical Christianity tho..

we need a boogie man and it will never be a white male.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Eventually white men will be the boogie men if we continue down the road we're on and I'd bet the farm we will continue on it.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

We were renting a crib from a Lebanese family, nice folks, really down to earth.

9/11 happened. During the weeks afterwards, anti Middle Eastern/Muslim sentiment was running high, particularly in SE Michigan. Acts of violence had been reported.

My landlord fled the country... Like, dude bailed and flew back to Lebanon, but left the family here. His brother dyed his hair blond in an attempt to blend in with white folks. The wives and kids largely stayed home though I was told by his brother that they allowed the wives and older girls to abandon their hijabs when going out in public in an attempt to blend in.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

When shook idiots started attacking gurdwaras and Sikhs, some Punjabi dudes starting going out without their turbans


Apparently Americans are too stupid to know the difference

At least not from what my mom told me at the time

I was in ATL then

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

>At least not from what my mom told me at the time
>
>I was in ATL then

not many, but enough to make them believe that the threat of it everywhere.


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

It's in the air so it's hard not to absorb it by osmosis. You've already acknowledge it and and know that its wrong to feel that way. You're already doing better than half the country by admitting that. Just work on the shit best you can and try to resist.

___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

I wonder how someone will fuck it up

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

I think one is plainly obvious. I'll ignore that one if it happens.

that being said, I don't find myself in public spaces much these days and I'll be avoiding the mall like the plague again this holiday season. At work if I hear gunshots I plan to hit the floor and GTFO as fast as possible and I keep trying to save enough paper so that I can put this place behind me for good, but hate muslims? Nah -- they aren't the enemy, it's whoever is financing the destruction of their region.

______________________________________

Everything looks like Oprah kissing Harvey Weinstein these days

is what I hear from all my muslim homies. It's a trip but since a lot of these senseless idiotic things have been going on, I have been meeting more and more muslims. Coming up to me like "yo, I finally understand what you go through in america". Really trips me out

we keep it moving,

my bases covered.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>

.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

>

_______________________________________

the problem is muslim extremists number in the 10s of millions globally
and their recruitment is effective across borders,education levels, and wealth segments

~~~~~~

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

muslim extremist.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

that's waaaay too high

and how many personnel there are. Then consider how screwed the whole world would be if extremists actually numbered that many. North Korea had about 1 million and no-one was screwing with them even before they went nuclear.

Just IMO though.

if you believe any of the polls it's probably closer to 100s of millions
i'm not willing to go that far though
but yea anything less than moderate is an issue to me
and this applies to all religions

~~~~~~

how many Palestinians would see them as warriors for the right side? Empathize with or even lionize them?

I don't agree with Bill Maher on all this stuff but he had some crazy numbers one time. A survey of Muslim countries revealed that a shocking number (to us) of people believed apostasy should be punishable by death. That's extremism and it's silly to expect anything less from people who are uneducated about he west and live under theocracies.

EDIT: This might be it http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/?beta=true&utm_expid=53098246-2.Lly4CFSVQG2lphsg-KopIg.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

Hiroshima or Nagasaki would all the people who agreed with that be correctly identified as Extremist?

Would all the Americans who agreed with torturing by the CIA would all those people be extremist?




>how many Palestinians would see them as warriors for the
>right side? Empathize with or even lionize them?
>
>I don't agree with Bill Maher on all this stuff but he had
>some crazy numbers one time. A survey of Muslim countries
>revealed that a shocking number (to us) of people believed
>apostasy should be punishable by death. That's extremism and
>it's silly to expect anything less from people who are
>uneducated about he west and live under theocracies.
>
>EDIT: This might be it
>http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/?beta=true&utm_expid=53098246-2.Lly4CFSVQG2lphsg-KopIg.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*