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Subject: "did God rape Mary?" This topic is locked.
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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 09:47 AM

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"did God rape Mary?"


  

          

so...God sent an angel to TELL Mary that she was going to give birth to God's son. Gabriel, the angel, didn't ASK Mary anything. she was told. considering she was a young woman or maybe even a girl...and God was a deity. w/all power in His hands and all that jazz. Alpha/Omega...you know the deal. what if she'd said 'no'? what would've happened to her? we know how God was at that point - He was still very Old Testament. he was into smiting ppl who disobeyed. and there was no salvation via Jesus - yet.

given the power differential did Mary give meaningful consent to this whole thing? isn't this at least as bad as what happens when a young girl has sex w/a teacher? i know God wasn't her teacher exactly - He considers Himself her 'father'. so...this is at least somewhat incestuous. we can ask Soon-Yi and Woody about it...we call that rape too. or molestation. either way we don't celebrate it.

i think maybe she was raped.

Luke 1:26-38

26 In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin's name was Mary. 28 And he came to her and said, "Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!" 29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be. 30 And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end." 34 And Mary said to the angel, "How will this be, since I am a virgin?" 35 And the angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God. 36 And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren. 37 For nothing will be impossible with God." 38 And Mary said, "Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.

fuck you.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
No, because God is inherently good and all of His actions are
Dec 23rd 2015
1
Stockholm much? The God of the bible is a genocidal maniac
Dec 23rd 2015
18
The Bible states again and again that God is inherently good.
Dec 23rd 2015
21
      outside of Xtian thought...is that rape?
Dec 23rd 2015
36
Road to rape is paved with good intention.
Dec 23rd 2015
19
But this wasn't no ordinary man. (c) Bushwick Bill
Dec 23rd 2015
22
      Right. So she couldn't give meaningful consent.
Dec 23rd 2015
24
           Rape is sinful and the God of thd Bible cannot sin, so no.
Dec 23rd 2015
26
                the rapist wrote the Bible though. Lol
Dec 23rd 2015
29
                     Oh, ok.
Dec 23rd 2015
30
                          what happens if she says 'no'?
Dec 23rd 2015
35
                               Within Christian thought, it wouldn't be rape.
Dec 23rd 2015
46
                                    i think so too.
Dec 23rd 2015
48
Nothing is inheritely good if it does bad things
Dec 23rd 2015
74
RE: did God rape Mary?
Dec 23rd 2015
2
i'm torn between this premise being lawyer-like or something an atheist ...
Dec 23rd 2015
3
don't think that has to be a one or the other deal
Dec 23rd 2015
7
verse 38 is consent
Dec 23rd 2015
4
is it meaningful consent though?
Dec 23rd 2015
37
      not to mention the bible was written
Dec 23rd 2015
72
      you know?
Dec 23rd 2015
75
           there are so many reason why the bible is problematic
Dec 23rd 2015
83
      woulda named him Rock & Roll??
Dec 23rd 2015
93
there was no sex or sexual contact.
Dec 23rd 2015
5
lmao... awesome analogy
Dec 23rd 2015
6
And yet she was impregnated. Without meaningful consent.
Dec 23rd 2015
25
Naw, she was a Nazareth bike that struck lucky.
Dec 23rd 2015
8
This is a perfect example of when folks don't read/understand the Bible...
Dec 23rd 2015
9
you coulda used this opportunity to inform, bruh...
Dec 23rd 2015
10
The title and premise is click-bait-ish... so I get some of the emotion
Dec 23rd 2015
15
Big Kuntry has a good point
Dec 23rd 2015
91
This was a clear Bait Post.
Dec 23rd 2015
33
Rather than pearl-clutch, it's more constructive to answer
Dec 23rd 2015
11
lmao... yall are funny
Dec 23rd 2015
13
It's clear that he got this Bait Post Q from the Christmas Song Post
Dec 23rd 2015
34
yes, this question flows from my response in that post.
Dec 23rd 2015
47
You and him have both been here forever and you've both debated
Dec 23rd 2015
50
I'm certainly glad "bait question" wasn't a stock Jesus response
Dec 23rd 2015
78
You're right. Faith is about not asking questions.
Dec 23rd 2015
14
Oh Jesus fuckin Christ .
Dec 23rd 2015
20
Oh sure.
Dec 23rd 2015
27
Keep it real with yourself. You weren't trying to learn anything
Dec 23rd 2015
39
      i asked a question - did God rape Mary?
Dec 23rd 2015
41
           Dude, your'e a very smart person. So, don't play dimwitted
Dec 23rd 2015
42
                yes, i just wrote out what i'm doing.
Dec 23rd 2015
44
why not offer an actual explanation rather than indignation?
Dec 23rd 2015
60
Your point about not reading is spot on
Dec 24th 2015
139
and you said you didnt get the appeal of Opie and Andy
Dec 23rd 2015
12
lol
Dec 23rd 2015
28
RE: did God rape Mary?
Dec 23rd 2015
16
What are you referring to?
Dec 23rd 2015
58
      RE: What are you referring to?
Dec 23rd 2015
62
           Ausar, Auset and Heru, actually
Dec 24th 2015
136
                RE: Ausar, Auset and Heru, actually
Dec 24th 2015
148
Joseph was definitely cuckolded
Dec 23rd 2015
17
for sure.
Dec 23rd 2015
38
'(Based) God you can fuck my bitch' - Joey
Dec 23rd 2015
23
i would've called Maury.
Dec 23rd 2015
43
The bible is filled from beginning to end ...
Dec 23rd 2015
31
thank u
Dec 23rd 2015
32
this is part of my point.
Dec 23rd 2015
40
remember how he asked Jonah if he wanted to get in that whale?
Dec 23rd 2015
49
I just had a conversation yesterday about the ethics of the Origin Story
Dec 23rd 2015
45
back in Sunday School when i was a teen i posed a question
Dec 23rd 2015
51
      My guess: it probably happened more than we realize and they
Dec 23rd 2015
52
      yeah but it couldn't have been easy.
Dec 23rd 2015
54
      maybe she wasn't showing, and J 'came early'
Dec 23rd 2015
53
      that's right! i forgot about the Catholics and the eternal virginity th...
Dec 23rd 2015
55
      try explaining it to kids sometime
Dec 23rd 2015
56
           LOL!
Dec 23rd 2015
57
                I remember sitting in the class
Dec 23rd 2015
70
      you know the annunciation is exactly 9 months before xmas, though
Dec 23rd 2015
64
      You make a good point here
Dec 24th 2015
140
Zeus was pretty rapey. The Christian God? Meh, needle dick maybe?
Dec 23rd 2015
59
zeus was such a weird dude
Dec 23rd 2015
61
lol i missed this one, but yeah
Dec 23rd 2015
65
Zeus was gettin' his
Dec 24th 2015
141
I'm more disturbed by Leda and the Swan
Dec 23rd 2015
63
right??
Dec 23rd 2015
68
That was his creation. He could mod her up if he wanted.
Dec 23rd 2015
66
I think he "covered" her, like animals are "covered" when inseminated th...
Dec 23rd 2015
67
her body her choice.
Dec 23rd 2015
69
      Immaculate Conceneption was actually Mary's conception, I think
Dec 23rd 2015
71
      maybe to some Catholics and div school students.
Dec 23rd 2015
73
      well uh it doesn't make sense on the calendar
Dec 23rd 2015
76
           was Mary conceived on December 8?
Dec 23rd 2015
77
                yes she was :-)
Dec 23rd 2015
82
                     right on.
Dec 23rd 2015
85
                     May as well be 1950 - funnest use of papal infallibility ever?
Dec 23rd 2015
114
      this is correct
Dec 23rd 2015
90
      Yeah it does read like a messed up story
Dec 23rd 2015
111
No. God knew her heart.
Dec 23rd 2015
79
that's a pretty bold justification but makes the most sense i guess
Dec 23rd 2015
81
given the power differential
Dec 23rd 2015
86
Free will.
Dec 23rd 2015
88
      Plenty young girls have sex with powerful adult of their own 'will'.
Dec 23rd 2015
98
      RE: Plenty young girls have sex with powerful adult of their own 'will'.
Dec 23rd 2015
108
           Sure.
Dec 23rd 2015
109
           k.
Dec 23rd 2015
118
           </post>
Dec 24th 2015
134
      Plenty young girls have sex with powerful men of their own 'will'.
Dec 23rd 2015
100
So God just gets to skate on that Robin Thicke?
Dec 24th 2015
135
R Kelly the God (c) that crazy guy
Dec 23rd 2015
80
God: 'Have a baby by me baby. Be a notre dame'
Dec 23rd 2015
84
lol
Dec 23rd 2015
87
there's no way you seriously thought this
Dec 23rd 2015
89
RE: there's no way you seriously thought this
Dec 23rd 2015
92
my point is I dont feel it was a genuine question of curiosity
Dec 23rd 2015
95
      RE: my point is I dont feel it was a genuine question of curiosity
Dec 23rd 2015
99
           good point. The Pharasees were trolling hard there
Dec 23rd 2015
116
It came up as I responded to the Bad Xmas Songs post.
Dec 23rd 2015
96
      and 3/4 of this post is honest legit discussion
Dec 24th 2015
143
           Don't be fooled
Dec 27th 2015
160
honestly there is no way of knowing this
Dec 23rd 2015
94
You WILL.
Dec 23rd 2015
102
      Yeah, but you WILL still means not yet.
Dec 23rd 2015
119
           maybe.
Dec 23rd 2015
124
typa question a nigga who hates christmas cards would ask
Dec 23rd 2015
97
Only on THIS site would this conversation occur
Dec 23rd 2015
101
I almost posted it on FB
Dec 23rd 2015
103
Luke 1:38 is consent and the Magnificat is downright enthusiasm
Dec 23rd 2015
104
She was impregnated and unable to consent.
Dec 23rd 2015
105
      Since God is outside of time, God wasn't hijacking - just informing
Dec 23rd 2015
106
           Not requesting - informing.
Dec 23rd 2015
107
                I was going to say that she had a choice by NOT being so holy
Dec 23rd 2015
110
                     Lol
Dec 23rd 2015
113
                          And maybe creepier by trying to make it less rapey
Dec 23rd 2015
117
                               lol
Dec 23rd 2015
121
RE: did God rape Mary?
Dec 23rd 2015
112
*daps*
Dec 23rd 2015
115
      RE: *daps*
Dec 23rd 2015
120
           word up.
Dec 23rd 2015
123
                Bruh, I'm African & brought this up as a kid. Shyt, almost got me stoned...
Dec 23rd 2015
131
Here's what I think, SoWhat...
Dec 23rd 2015
122
great.
Dec 23rd 2015
125
      RE: great.
Dec 23rd 2015
126
           ok.
Dec 23rd 2015
127
Reread it with Gabriel used as a symbolism
Dec 23rd 2015
128
well, she *was* under the age of consent
Dec 23rd 2015
129
No, he just molested her but only in sprit - Corinthians 2:16
Dec 23rd 2015
130
'Merry Christmas, Charlie Brown!'
Dec 23rd 2015
132
I initially had a Caseone reaction.
Dec 24th 2015
133
He got mind-control over these hoes.
Dec 24th 2015
137
I'm just gonna drop 1 John 3:8 and let it cook for the thinking person
Dec 24th 2015
138
It's not that deep, you went ad hominem. That's the easy route.
Dec 24th 2015
142
      If you got that then you missed the point, meaning, and insight.
Dec 24th 2015
144
           RE: If you got that then you missed the point, meaning, and insight.
Dec 24th 2015
145
                I hope that you receive the gift of happiness this year.
Dec 24th 2015
147
                     fuck you.
Dec 25th 2015
149
                          Maybe next year.
Dec 26th 2015
153
                               LOL
Dec 26th 2015
154
                               lmao
Dec 26th 2015
159
                               Maybe next year you'll explain #307.
Dec 27th 2015
161
                                    You must have gotten a lump of Coal.
Dec 27th 2015
163
                                         ...and yet...still no explanation of 307
Dec 27th 2015
164
one glaring thing being overlooked from the OP
Dec 24th 2015
146
No because it is quite obvious
Dec 25th 2015
150
If this was a deity from any other culture..
Dec 26th 2015
151
Mary didn't conceive Jesus until AFTER
Dec 26th 2015
152
      She was 14, hence rape
Dec 26th 2015
155
           the world was created in 7 days in
Dec 26th 2015
156
           Don't we have to know the age of consent there at the time?
Dec 27th 2015
162
Nope
Dec 26th 2015
157
annnnnnd here we go
Dec 26th 2015
158

Teknontheou
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32506 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 09:56 AM

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1. "No, because God is inherently good and all of His actions are"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

justified, by the definition of who He is.

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
15330 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 10:44 AM

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18. "Stockholm much? The God of the bible is a genocidal maniac "
In response to Reply # 1


          

And all-around asshole

  

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Teknontheou
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Wed Dec-23-15 10:58 AM

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21. "The Bible states again and again that God is inherently good."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

That means his actions are always right, regardless of how they seem or feel to us.

I'm not telling you you have to believe that - most human beings on the planet do not believe it. But that's the logic.

By contrast, the ancient Greeks did not believe that their gods were inherently just. In fact, tons of rapes are committed by gods in Greek mythology and an ancient Greek would have immediately told you "oh yeah, Zeus raped whoever, or Poseidon raped this maiden, etc."

The point I'm making is that within Christian thought, that was not rape.

  

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SoWhat
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154163 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 11:24 AM

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36. "outside of Xtian thought...is that rape?"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

fuck you.

  

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SoWhat
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154163 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 10:48 AM

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19. "Road to rape is paved with good intention."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

Lots of rapists are nice guys who 'mean well'.

fuck you.

  

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Teknontheou
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Wed Dec-23-15 10:59 AM

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22. "But this wasn't no ordinary man. (c) Bushwick Bill"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:03 AM

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24. "Right. So she couldn't give meaningful consent."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

Thus - rape.

fuck you.

  

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Teknontheou
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:10 AM

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26. "Rape is sinful and the God of thd Bible cannot sin, so no."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

If God Shammgod, a human being who played basketball in the 90s had done this, he'd be guilty of rape, sure.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:12 AM

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29. "the rapist wrote the Bible though. Lol"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

How convenient.

fuck you.

  

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Teknontheou
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:13 AM

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30. "Oh, ok."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:24 AM

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35. "what happens if she says 'no'?"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Teknontheou
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:39 AM

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46. "Within Christian thought, it wouldn't be rape."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

In the United States of America, in 2015, with a natural person as the accused, it would totally be rape.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:40 AM

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48. "i think so too."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

fuck you.

  

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justin_scott
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Wed Dec-23-15 01:39 PM

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74. "Nothing is inheritely good if it does bad things"
In response to Reply # 1


          

.

************************************************************

  

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Mgmt
Member since Feb 17th 2005
21404 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 09:56 AM

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2. "RE: did God rape Mary?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>so...God sent an angel to TELL Mary that she was going to
>give birth to God's son. Gabriel, the angel, didn't ASK Mary
>anything. she was told. considering she was a young woman or
>maybe even a girl...and God was a deity. w/all power in His
>hands and all that jazz. Alpha/Omega...you know the deal.
>what if she'd said 'no'? what would've happened to her? we
>know how God was at that point - He was still very Old
>Testament. he was into smiting ppl who disobeyed. and there
>was no salvation via Jesus - yet.
>
>given the power differential did Mary give meaningful consent
>to this whole thing? isn't this at least as bad as what
>happens when a young girl has sex w/a teacher? i know God
>wasn't her teacher exactly - He considers Himself her
>'father'. so...this is at least somewhat incestuous. we can
>ask Soon-Yi and Woody about it...we call that rape too. or
>molestation. either way we don't celebrate it.
>
>i think maybe she was raped.
>
>Luke 1:26-38
>
> 26 In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God
>to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed
>to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the
>virgin's name was Mary. 28 And he came to her and said,
>"Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!" 29 But she
>was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what
>sort of greeting this might be. 30 And the angel said to her,
>"Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31
>And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and
>you shall call his name Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be
>called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to
>him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over
>the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be
>no end." 34 And Mary said to the angel, "How will this be,
>since I am a virgin?" 35 And the angel answered her, "The Holy
>Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will
>overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called
>holy, the Son of God. 36 And behold, your relative Elizabeth
>in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth
>month with her who was called barren. 37 For nothing will be
>impossible with God." 38 And Mary said, "Behold, I am the
>servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word."
>And the angel departed from her.
>
>

  

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BigJazz
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3. "i'm torn between this premise being lawyer-like or something an atheist ..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

would say.

either way, i'm interested in watching this cook...


***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
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Wed Dec-23-15 10:08 AM

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7. "don't think that has to be a one or the other deal"
In response to Reply # 3


          

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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Wed Dec-23-15 09:56 AM

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4. "verse 38 is consent "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


"Get ready..for your blessing..."

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:25 AM

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37. "is it meaningful consent though?"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

what would've happened to her if she'd said 'no'?

fuck you.

  

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GirlChild
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Wed Dec-23-15 01:36 PM

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72. "not to mention the bible was written"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

and edited by men only

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 01:39 PM

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75. "you know?"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

fuck you.

  

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GirlChild
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83. "there are so many reason why the bible is problematic"
In response to Reply # 75
Wed Dec-23-15 02:11 PM by GirlChild

  

          

and why out of all the religions christianity pisses me off the most
i don't see how these evangelical xtian extremists don't see that they are exactly like the crazy nut bag islamic terrorists.

  

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FLUIDJ
Member since Sep 18th 2002
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93. "woulda named him Rock & Roll?? "
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

shit I dunno....

"Get ready..for your blessing..."

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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Wed Dec-23-15 09:57 AM

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5. "there was no sex or sexual contact."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

besides...she consented.

""Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word"

It was an honor to have jesus.

like if a lady went to the gyn and the doc told her, "hark, I'm putting this fertilized egg in ya. He's gonna grow to be 6'8, 265 and dominate the basketball world. He will have a bad hairline. Go in peace."

No woman is gonna be like nah, i'll pass.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Dec-23-15 10:07 AM

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6. "lmao... awesome analogy"
In response to Reply # 5


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:08 AM

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25. "And yet she was impregnated. Without meaningful consent."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

Considering the power dynamic her 'consent' is tainted. Maybe she just said yes bc she had no real choice. Like when a teacher or father or correctional officer ', et al, does the same thing. I think Mary gave 'consent' under duress or at least undue pressure. I'm not sure the conception was voluntary.

fuck you.

  

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TheAlbionist
Member since Jul 04th 2011
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Wed Dec-23-15 10:15 AM

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8. "Naw, she was a Nazareth bike that struck lucky."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Get stoned to death for adultery or use society's superstitions to your advantage to stay alive?

Mary was a hustler.

_______________________________

))<>((
forever.

  

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Case_One
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9. " This is a perfect example of when folks don't read/understand the Bible..."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Dec-23-15 10:18 AM by Case_One

          

Or they do not have a meaningful, submitted covenant relationship with God. No mature Christian would even think of such a evil thing as, "Did God rape Mary?" Such an idea is sick and or comes from a mind that is trying to create an atmosphere of confusion. I'm disgusted by the question. But I consider the source.
.
.

  

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Big Kuntry
Member since May 09th 2010
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Wed Dec-23-15 10:20 AM

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10. "you coulda used this opportunity to inform, bruh... "
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

dont talk down. put them up on game - it might be some folk reading this that genuinely wanna know.

  

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Cocobrotha2
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Wed Dec-23-15 10:32 AM

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15. "The title and premise is click-bait-ish... so I get some of the emotion"
In response to Reply # 10


          

in his reply... the title was partially intended to shock the reader.

But there's also some genuinely compelling ideas that I'm sure have been discussed by theologians over the years... but has that discussion happened in the context of recent legal precedent? Does it even make sense to recast ancient "events" in contemporary contexts? Can we tease something out about the nature of faith and obedience in the Bible and the religion by engaging in this discussion?

Case doesn't go there... I'll be charitable and say that trolling is more entertaining to him.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
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Wed Dec-23-15 02:55 PM

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91. "Big Kuntry has a good point"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

>in his reply... the title was partially intended to shock the
>reader.
>
>But there's also some genuinely compelling ideas that I'm sure
>have been discussed by theologians over the years... but has
>that discussion happened in the context of recent legal
>precedent? Does it even make sense to recast ancient "events"
>in contemporary contexts? Can we tease something out about the
>nature of faith and obedience in the Bible and the religion by
>engaging in this discussion?
>
>Case doesn't go there... I'll be charitable and say that
>trolling is more entertaining to him.

There are likely lay people who believe but have trouble with these points, or will now that they've read it. Even more important is thinking about how young people will approach the Bible given how attitudes are developing towards consent. The challenge as a Christian, I think, is down to how you approach those people. Do you give their questions and issues due consideration, or ignore them in favour of playing the man (in this instance SoWhat).

It's of no surprise that Christianity overall is diminishing in numbers, given that these people feel that the church doesn't care about them, and therefore can't feel God in their lives. The usual path of the church is to blame those people for leaving, which makes me wonder at what point does a Christian like that actually takes responsibility for turning people away from the faith, or whether for them that's somehow impossible so they can act the way they want and always place the responsibility elsewhere.

Just IMO though.

  

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Case_One
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33. "This was a clear Bait Post. "
In response to Reply # 10


          

SoWhat was / in not interested in learning about the Bible or its truth, or having a reasonable dialog. So it is what it is. But thank you for your opinion. Merry Christmas.
.
.
.

  

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Teknontheou
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11. "Rather than pearl-clutch, it's more constructive to answer "
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

the question. Almost everyone in here so far already has, and the answer has been "no, God did not rape Mary" from a couple different angles.

When you react the way you just did you make it seem like Christian doctrine and thought is too delicate to handle tough questions, which is not the case (no pun intended).

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Dec-23-15 10:26 AM

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13. "lmao... yall are funny"
In response to Reply # 11


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Case_One
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:22 AM

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34. "It's clear that he got this Bait Post Q from the Christmas Song Post"
In response to Reply # 11


          

.
.
.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:40 AM

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47. "yes, this question flows from my response in that post."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

you're right about that.

and you're right that i've titled this post provocatively.

fuck you.

  

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Teknontheou
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50. "You and him have both been here forever and you've both debated"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

Christianity with each other the whole time. Why are you still getting sucked into religion shock posts like you just got here last week?

  

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Ted Gee Seal
Member since Apr 18th 2007
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Wed Dec-23-15 01:56 PM

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78. "I'm certainly glad "bait question" wasn't a stock Jesus response"
In response to Reply # 11
Wed Dec-23-15 02:04 PM by Ted Gee Seal

  

          

Who knows how much of His wisdom would have been squandered had that been His stock response whenever someone was trying to trap Him.

Just IMO though.

  

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TheAlbionist
Member since Jul 04th 2011
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14. "You're right. Faith is about not asking questions."
In response to Reply # 9
Wed Dec-23-15 10:28 AM by TheAlbionist

  

          

Seeing as you've got all the answers already... I don't know why you'd even bother conversing with anyone.

_______________________________

))<>((
forever.

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Wed Dec-23-15 10:58 AM

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20. "Oh Jesus fuckin Christ ."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:10 AM

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27. "Oh sure."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

I would also attempt to discredit the source rather than deal with substance if I were you. But I'm not you and I would instead examine the issues raised and would be troubled. Bc a deity basically raped a child impregnating her and then demands that we celebrate the act. It's odd.

fuck you.

  

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Case_One
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39. "Keep it real with yourself. You weren't trying to learn anything"
In response to Reply # 27


          

You made a clear Bait Post, so don't try to hide your hand and act like your were at the front of the class asking questions with your Oooh Oooh hand raised,
.
.
.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:34 AM

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41. "i asked a question - did God rape Mary?"
In response to Reply # 39
Wed Dec-23-15 11:34 AM by SoWhat

  

          

yes, it's a provocative question - i intended that it be so.

i'm not interested in being educated on Xtian doctrine on the issue b/c i already know it, thanks.

i'm asking if we can see a rape in the conception story when we interpret the story in a modern context that doesn't give the sort of deference that the Biblical interpretation rooted in Xtian doctrine will give. b/c of course in a Biblical interpretation there's no rape since as Tek pointed out God cannot sin and all of that. i knew that when i made the post.

fuck you.

  

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Case_One
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:35 AM

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42. "Dude, your'e a very smart person. So, don't play dimwitted "
In response to Reply # 41


          

Kill all the side talk. You knew what your were trying to do.


.
.
.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:38 AM

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44. "yes, i just wrote out what i'm doing."
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

i'm engaging the board in a discussion about a modern interpretation of the Immaculate Conception that questions whether Mary gave meaningful consent to be impregnated by God.

answers rooted in Biblical interpretations that rely on Xtian doctrine aren't relevant to the discussion. however, i understand and accept the answer from that perspective - of course God didn't rape Mary when we read the story from that perspective. but i'm asking about another perspective that doesn't rely on Xtian doctrine.

fuck you.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Wed Dec-23-15 01:00 PM

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60. "why not offer an actual explanation rather than indignation?"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Lil Rabies
Member since Oct 12th 2005
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139. "Your point about not reading is spot on"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

So what is trying to use a lens that doesn't exist for a discussion. You have to have an understanding of God to ask why at this point if divine conception is rape. At this point in the story, it's like God's males have been ordered to Cut their dicks. You don't interpret any story without context. There is a double standard frequently used when people want to treat the bible as a story, but then don't want to interpret it the same way you would Catch 22.

Taking shots in the dark/that's a bad call
Going straight for your head/ gotta saw it off

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
70313 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 10:21 AM

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12. "and you said you didnt get the appeal of Opie and Andy"
In response to Reply # 0


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:11 AM

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28. "lol"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

fuck you.

  

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double 0
Member since Nov 17th 2004
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16. "RE: did God rape Mary?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Egypt origin story they stole it from was way better...

sexing dead people..

much more poppin

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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Numba_33
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58. "What are you referring to?"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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double 0
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62. "RE: What are you referring to?"
In response to Reply # 58
Wed Dec-23-15 01:05 PM by double 0

          

Horus....

Immaculate conception.. moms Isis sexes dead dad Osiris

If you care to nerd out

http://www.academia.edu/1954926/Divine_Mothers_The_Influence_of_Isis_on_the_Virgin_Mary_in_Egyptian_Lactans-Iconography

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
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Thu Dec-24-15 10:07 AM

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136. "Ausar, Auset and Heru, actually"
In response to Reply # 62
Thu Dec-24-15 10:08 AM by Garhart Poppwell

  

          

It's generally considered bad form to use the European names for them.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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double 0
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148. "RE: Ausar, Auset and Heru, actually"
In response to Reply # 136
Thu Dec-24-15 11:13 PM by double 0

          

no hotep

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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gumz
Member since Jan 09th 2005
20118 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 10:41 AM

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17. "Joseph was definitely cuckolded"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/user/gumzization
twitter: @BrosefMalone

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:25 AM

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38. "for sure."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:01 AM

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23. "'(Based) God you can fuck my bitch' - Joey"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Seriously tho I'd be super jealous if I was Joseph


God can create everything ...including the size of his dick


He probably gave Mary that work in the sheets man.

_______________________________________________
"Mindless populism embodied by Trump and Sanders are like a malignant wart on our body politic"

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:36 AM

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43. "i would've called Maury."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

like...this woman...my FIANCEE is pregnant. i know *I* didn't fuck her. b/c she won't give up the dugout. but now she's knocked up and claims the GOD HIMSELF is her baby daddy.

hell no. i'd want the baby tested.

fuck you.

  

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TR808
Member since Oct 24th 2012
1983 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 11:14 AM

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31. "The bible is filled from beginning to end ..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

With examples of how God spoke with humans and they had the choice to listen or go they own route...

first example is Adam and Eve... they were told what they could do and what the consequences would be if they didnt listen...

Cain and Abel... Cain was warned about his attitude... but he didnt listen and murdered his brother...

Abraham... was told that if he left his home and relied on God he would be blessed....

Lot...God said he would destroy Sodom and Gomorah.. Lot actually went back and forth with God... about destroying the city...

Moses...God told moses to lead Isreal but Moses initially said he could not do it... then he said he would do it but needed someone to talk for him which was Aaron..

Solomon... God asked him what he wanted and Solomon asked for wisdom...his choice...


Naomi and Ruth.. in the book of Ruth she had the choice of leaving and going back to worshiping other gods.. she chose to stay..

.... I could go on but perhaps reading the bible would be good for you instead of trying to apply a non spiritual mindset to something intended for spiritual people...


Kinda like saying ..did the United States Murder Osama Bin Laden..

You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.

  

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ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:17 AM

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32. "thank u"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

=======================================
Coolin...

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:31 AM

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40. "this is part of my point."
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

what would've happened to Mary if she'd said she didn't want to be God's baby mama?

we see how He threatened others as you've pointed out.

given that Mary was a poor girl and God was the omnipotent deity - was she able to give meaningful consent to the conception? or was her will overborne?

i'd be more comfortable w/the story if God had given her at least a chance to consider the offer. hell, i'd feel better about it if God had actually made an OFFER and not merely issued a demand. b/c her womb is hers and she should've been able to decide for real if she wanted to be Jesus' mother. i dunno that she did. i dunno that she could've given actual consent b/c of the difference in the power she held versus the power God held.

i've never been okay w/the conception story though. i find it incredibly creepy (he sent an angel to her in the middle of the night) and now i think it's at least somewhat rapey.

and FTR i've read 2/3 of the Bible, player. i was a somewhat serious Xtian in my youth. i grew up attending church 2 or 3x per week. i was Baptist and then Pentecostal.

fuck you.

  

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Rjcc
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:43 AM

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49. "remember how he asked Jonah if he wanted to get in that whale?"
In response to Reply # 31


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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lonesome_d
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:39 AM

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45. "I just had a conversation yesterday about the ethics of the Origin Story"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Even if it's not rape, it's out of wedlock pregnancy.

Mary is described as 'ever virgin' - so did she slack in her wifely duties to Joseph following their marriage of convenience?

All of which reminded me of stories I learned in studying history but don't remember well, but I believe a princess of some sort was seduced by a guy who dressed as an angel and came through her window telling her he was a messenger from God. If memory serves he got caught and defenestrated. Can't find anything online though so maybe I'm misremembering.

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:45 AM

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51. "back in Sunday School when i was a teen i posed a question"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

wondering if Joseph suffered any difficulty when the ppl in his community found out that his fiancee was pregnant. the Bible doesn't tell us when the 2 married but we know that Joseph didn't get to bang until after she gave birth. so yeah she slacked on her duties until after the birth (maybe she hooked him up in other ways though).

anyway, we see that Joseph wanted to bail at first b/c he understood the difficulty of the situation. but he was convinced to stay. i can't imagine the 2 of them explaining the pregnancy to their parents and the larger community.

fuck you.

  

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Teknontheou
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:54 AM

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52. "My guess: it probably happened more than we realize and they"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

just dealt with whatever people had to say.

In addition, if both of y'all have been visited by angels and you know your lady is carrying God's Son, you're going to care alot less about what others have to say. That's just me using logic based on what's given in the text.

  

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SoWhat
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54. "yeah but it couldn't have been easy."
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

back then women got stoned for stepping out of line. at least that was the law. maybe it wasn't enforced very much. b/c i don't see how she wasn't stoned - or even charged. of course, it was a miracle and all of that but even Jesus was punished for His violations of the various laws of the land. Mary at least looked like she was guilty of a pretty serious offense. it's odd that it wasn't ever addressed.

and anyway i asked when i was a teen b/c i imagined me or any of my peers going to our parents w/THAT story - she's knocked up but i didn't do it it was God. or her saying yeah i'm knocked up but i'm still a virgin. it's preposterous. i can't imagine the ppl around them accepted that easily. but the Bible doesn't say much of anything about that.

fuck you.

  

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lonesome_d
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:55 AM

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53. "maybe she wasn't showing, and J 'came early'"
In response to Reply # 51


          

It's not like (despite the star, the angels, and all) they advertised Jesus's true paternity anyway, so whatever explanation was offered would be interesting.

> we know that
>Joseph didn't get to bang until after she gave birth.

According to catholic and some other doctrines, HE NEVER BANGED. Mary remained a virgin her entire life - the doctrine of perpetual virginity. The idea of Mary's perpetual virginity took root fairly quickly - within the first few centuries after Christ - and has maintained a hold on the Christian imagination ever since.

There's some difficulty over this as the Bible refers to Jesus's brothers but official Catholic doctrine skirts that issue.

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 12:02 PM

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55. "that's right! i forgot about the Catholics and the eternal virginity th..."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

that's so weird.

LOL

fuck you.

  

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lonesome_d
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Wed Dec-23-15 12:15 PM

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56. "try explaining it to kids sometime"
In response to Reply # 55


          

I was raised Catholic so I insist (if we're to celebrate Christmas) we go to Church on Christmas eve. But for kids who are not exposed to Catholicism on a regular basis the whole thing is just weird.

I was brushing up my 5 year old on the reason for the season the other day - avoiding the difficult-to-grasp question of divine paternity without penetration - and the kid said 'wait! how was the baby God? Thhat doesn't make any sense! It's just, like, so... weird."

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

  

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SoWhat
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57. "LOL!"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

as confused as a i was by the whole thing when i was a kid i can understand.

the whole story kinda unravels when one asks too many questions. of course in Sunday School the typical answer was that i couldn't comprehend God's logic b/c i'm not God. of course that answer never set well w/me.

fuck you.

  

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Rjcc
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70. "I remember sitting in the class"
In response to Reply # 57


          

>>the whole story kinda unravels when one asks too many questions. of course in Sunday School the typical answer was that i couldn't comprehend God's logic b/c i'm not God. of course that answer never set well w/me.


looking around at the other kids like "so this is a joke right? They're going to give us the real explanation later?"

there was no real explanation.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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janey
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64. "you know the annunciation is exactly 9 months before xmas, though"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

the doctrine is that He was right on time

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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Lil Rabies
Member since Oct 12th 2005
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140. "You make a good point here"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

There maybe some controversy about how Joseph was "convinced". I believe they say he was visited by an Angel. Angels are very frightening to humans. Check out how people reacted to seeing them anywhere in the Old Testament: terror.

Taking shots in the dark/that's a bad call
Going straight for your head/ gotta saw it off

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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59. "Zeus was pretty rapey. The Christian God? Meh, needle dick maybe?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It seems like he was just sneaky, in and out without a fuss.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Rjcc
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61. "zeus was such a weird dude"
In response to Reply # 59


          


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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blackrussian
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65. "lol i missed this one, but yeah"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

  

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Selassie I God
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141. "Zeus was gettin' his"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

http://s1298.photobucket.com/user/undertakerwlf/media/bio%20cards/Zeus_zps9126ca22.jpg.html

____
Some will tell you that they love you but they've got an ulterior motive - Oh what a shame
They will tell you that they need you but they've got an ulterior motive - Personal gain

(c) Luciano


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg0-qndkemo

  

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blackrussian
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63. "I'm more disturbed by Leda and the Swan"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Because Leda turned down Zeus's advances, he turned himself into a swan and 'seduced' her. Imagine being raped by a SWAN!

  

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SoWhat
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68. "right??"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

i was so bothered by that story. LOL

fuck you.

  

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Errol Walton Barrow
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66. "That was his creation. He could mod her up if he wanted."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It's like changing parameters on Data, or when Jimmy Smits wiped R2D2 and C3PO's memory in Star Wars. I feel like you should have more leeway with things created than with your own peer group.

Also the Holy Spirit didn't penetrate her, more like 'saturated' her. There was nothing sexual, or forcible about it. You'd have to lower the charge to criminal mischief or something, cuz I feel like God walks on rape charges.

-------
http://adevotedappraisal.tumblr.com - Essays, reviews, short stories and free writes on music, film and life around us.

  

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janey
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67. "I think he "covered" her, like animals are "covered" when inseminated th..."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

and animal sex is uh animalistic, so I'm going with rape.



~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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SoWhat
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69. "her body her choice."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

but yes i agree that God just basically treated her as if He could do whatever He wanted w/her body as if it's His and not hers.

while i agree the prosecution might have trouble scoring a conviction in a criminal case related to the Immaculate Conception, i can still see that there was some impropriety in it when i look at the story through a modern lens w/o giving deference to God.

fuck you.

  

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lonesome_d
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71. "Immaculate Conceneption was actually Mary's conception, I think"
In response to Reply # 69


          

>while i agree the prosecution might have trouble scoring a
>conviction in a criminal case related to the Immaculate
>Conception,

and 'immaculate' refers specifically to Mary being conceived and born *free of original sin*.


-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

  

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SoWhat
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73. "maybe to some Catholics and div school students."
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

but in the gen pop when we say 'Immaculate Conception' we're referring to Jesus's conception. it was 'immaculate' in that there was no sex or other penetration and Mary was a virgin.

or at least that's what *i* meant when i used the phrase as i've heard it used the overwhelming majority of times i've heard it used.

fuck you.

  

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janey
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76. "well uh it doesn't make sense on the calendar"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

the feast of the immaculate conception is December 8. The feast of the assumption is March 25. Which one falls 9 months before Xmas?



~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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SoWhat
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77. "was Mary conceived on December 8?"
In response to Reply # 76
Wed Dec-23-15 01:53 PM by SoWhat

  

          

lol

fuck you.

  

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janey
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82. "yes she was :-)"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

and she was assumed into heaven on August 15. Not sure of the exact year
~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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SoWhat
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85. "right on."
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Walleye
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114. "May as well be 1950 - funnest use of papal infallibility ever?"
In response to Reply # 82


          

August 15th is annually known to me as "that holy day of obligation that I have literally never remembered in time to make it to church."

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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cgonz00cc
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90. "this is correct"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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Errol Walton Barrow
Member since Jul 02nd 2002
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111. "Yeah it does read like a messed up story"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

I'm just trying to look at it from the Big Homie's point of view. It'd be no different for him than when we rip up earth with a plow to plant seeds in it. Or when we watch nature documentaries and the lion just jumps on the lioness and starts stroking. Is there consent there? It's just natural.

In the whole scheme of the Bible the Immaculate Conception is not as hardcore as other things done. This is Almighty"I genocided the world with water"God we're talking about after all.

-------
http://adevotedappraisal.tumblr.com - Essays, reviews, short stories and free writes on music, film and life around us.

  

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Ted Gee Seal
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79. "No. God knew her heart."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Some of the phrasing is problematic but I think that's partly down to the time when those events were put into language. They had different attitudes to consent back then and so skipped over some of the nuance of what actually happened.

Just IMO though.

  

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MiracleRic
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81. "that's a pretty bold justification but makes the most sense i guess"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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SoWhat
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86. "given the power differential"
In response to Reply # 79
Wed Dec-23-15 02:19 PM by SoWhat

  

          

(God was omnipotent and Mary was...not) i don't see how she could've given meaningful/actual consent. like when an accused rapist claims his 12 year old victim 'wanted it'. the coercion/duress/et al is assumed.

fuck you.

  

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Ted Gee Seal
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88. "Free will."
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

I think given how fucked up this earth is despite God's commands it's pretty clear that a power differential doesn't get in the way of a disobedient heart. As someone else said there are other moments in the Bible where there was a back and forth between God and a person where their hearts weren't immediately in it.

I think it undermines any religious person's free obedience to God to say that His commands are given under some sort of duress because of a power differential. Yes, religion can be used that way between those in the church who prey on the vulnerable. But a relationship with God is different, especially when grace and forgiveness are part of the equation (yes Jesus hadn't died on the cross at this point, but still).

Mary was already ride or die for God, out of her own free will.

Just IMO though.

  

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SoWhat
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98. "Plenty young girls have sex with powerful adult of their own 'will'."
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

The men are still considered rapists or at least we don't celebrate the sex. We say those girls can't offer real consent bc of the power dynamic. I can't imagine a greater power differential than the one between Mary and God. If she said 'no' He likely would smite her. Or at least she might've thought so. But anyway whether she thought she 'wanted it' isnt the issue bc she was too young to know for sure. And God took advantage to serve HIS plan. He could've chosen a rich girl or a woman or a queen - a woman with more agency. But no - He chose a poor girl. A helpless, defenseless girl who was already engaged to be married. Outside of the Xtian interpretation (which is where this discussion is happening) that's rape, imo.

fuck you.

  

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Ted Gee Seal
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Wed Dec-23-15 03:46 PM

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108. "RE: Plenty young girls have sex with powerful adult of their own 'will'."
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

>The men are still considered rapists or at least we don't
>celebrate the sex. We say those girls can't offer real consent
>bc of the power dynamic. I can't imagine a greater power
>differential than the one between Mary and God.

I'll stipulate to the power differential counsellor.

>If she said
>'no' He likely would smite her. Or at least she might've
>thought so.
>But anyway whether she thought she 'wanted it'
>isnt the issue bc she was too young to know for sure.

So, if she had been married to Joseph at this point and decided to have a child at his request that wouldn't be consensual either? Are we basically all children conceived back in these times are products of rape because of the power differential between men and women at this point?

Lets not forget that life expectancy isn't great and people had to get on with life much faster than we do nowadays.

>And God
>took advantage to serve HIS plan. He could've chosen a rich
>girl or a woman or a queen - a woman with more agency. But no
>- He chose a poor girl. A helpless, defenseless girl who was
>already engaged to be married.

Just because she was poor doesn't mean she wasn't strong with a mind of her own. Agency in this instance is spiritual, not physical. Being rich or woman doesn't provide more agency in the face of God.


>Outside of the Xtian
>interpretation (which is where this discussion is happening)
>that's rape, imo.

Only because you're relating it to earthly instances where powerful men are intentionally leveraging their power to get what they want. I've covered how this can't be a reasonable assertion in this instance where the powerful side of the equation can actually see the other party's heart and demonstrably allows humans free will.

Since there apparently isn't reliable information as to how old Mary was at the point of conception the underage line is tenuous too IMO.

Just IMO though.

  

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SoWhat
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109. "Sure."
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

She was raped though.

fuck you.

  

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Ted Gee Seal
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118. "k."
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

Just IMO though.

  

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MiracleRic
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134. "</post>"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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SoWhat
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100. "Plenty young girls have sex with powerful men of their own 'will'."
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

The men are still considered rapists or at least we don't celebrate the sex. We say those girls can't offer real consent bc of the power dynamic. I can't imagine a greater power differential than the one between Mary and God. If she said 'no' He likely would smite her. Or at least she might've thought so. But anyway whether she thought she 'wanted it' isnt the issue bc she was too young to know for sure. And God took advantage to serve HIS plan. He could've chosen a rich girl or a woman or a queen - a woman with more agency. But no - He chose a poor girl. A helpless, defenseless girl who was already engaged to be married. Outside of the Xtian interpretation (which is where this discussion is happening) that's rape, imo.

fuck you.

  

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magilla vanilla
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135. "So God just gets to skate on that Robin Thicke?"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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MiracleRic
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80. "R Kelly the God (c) that crazy guy"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
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Wed Dec-23-15 02:14 PM

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84. "God: 'Have a baby by me baby. Be a notre dame'"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

________________________________________________

SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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SoWhat
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87. "lol"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

fuck you.

  

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atruhead
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89. "there's no way you seriously thought this"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it's 2 days before Christmas, you wanted to troll and upset people. congratulations if this is some sort of proud of achievement

  

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Ted Gee Seal
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92. "RE: there's no way you seriously thought this"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

>it's 2 days before Christmas, you wanted to troll and upset
>people. congratulations if this is some sort of proud of
>achievement

Whether SoWhat did or didn't is immaterial. Given the world kids are growing up in now, I'll bet this isn't the first and it won't be the last time this issue is raised.

I really don't get the point of getting upset because a question or assertion potentially creates confusion or is a provocation. As a Christian, I always have the opportunity to clear up the confusion, if not for the person asking the question, then for believers who might also struggle with the same question.

I mean, shouldn't Christians be begging for more posts like this? A couple of days out from Christmas and we're talking about the Bible. It's a great opportunity to show how open and accepting we can be, but also firm in our own beliefs, in the most considerate and empathetic way.

Just IMO though.

  

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atruhead
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95. "my point is I dont feel it was a genuine question of curiosity"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

intent is everything, and if your intent is pissing people off, how are you doing any better than intolerant Christians?

  

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Ted Gee Seal
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Wed Dec-23-15 03:21 PM

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99. "RE: my point is I dont feel it was a genuine question of curiosity"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

>intent is everything, and if your intent is pissing people
>off, how are you doing any better than intolerant Christians?

Yep, but even if that is so, the question is open to appropriate response.

I think Jesus' example is instructive here:

15 Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. 16 They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are. 17 Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial tax to Caesar or not?”

18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? 19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, 20 and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

21 “Caesar’s,” they replied.

Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”

22 When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.

Yes Jesus called out the intent, but still responded to the question.

Just IMO though.

  

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Errol Walton Barrow
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116. "good point. The Pharasees were trolling hard there"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

but it still made for a clear eyed discussion.

-------
http://adevotedappraisal.tumblr.com - Essays, reviews, short stories and free writes on music, film and life around us.

  

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SoWhat
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96. "It came up as I responded to the Bad Xmas Songs post."
In response to Reply # 89
Wed Dec-23-15 03:12 PM by SoWhat

  

          

As I analyzed Little Drummer Boy I referred to Jesus as an illegitimate child as he was conceived out of wedlock by someone other than his mother's fiancé, Joseph. It occurred to me that Mary was maybe raped when I considered the facts - she was a girl and God was an omnipotent deity. And then I made this post. I almost posted on FB but I thought the discussion might be too hot for FB.

fuck you.

  

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GriftyMcgrift
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Thu Dec-24-15 05:23 PM

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143. "and 3/4 of this post is honest legit discussion"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          



and then theres the few people wanting to make it go poast by claiming you only wanted to poast


too funny

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Sun Dec-27-15 01:16 AM

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160. "Don't be fooled"
In response to Reply # 143


          

>and then theres the few people wanting to make it go poast by
>claiming you only wanted to poast
>

No, there are the few who see through the guy.
He intentionally provokes people with his posts and responses often.
Much of what he posts is intentional provocation under the guise of self-expression.
I can start pointing it out to you if you really don't see it.

~
~
~
~
~
"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
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Wed Dec-23-15 03:10 PM

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94. "honestly there is no way of knowing this"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

without knowing what Mary was wearing.


to be serious though, in the scripture you pulled from Luke, the angel speaks on pregnancy in a future tense. You WILL become pregnant. It implies that she has not yet conceived until after she has consented anyway, so not rape.

________________________________________________

SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 03:24 PM

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102. "You WILL."
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

Not 'hey, do you mind if..?' Or 'Do you want to...?'

A directive not a request.

fuck you.

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
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Wed Dec-23-15 04:15 PM

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119. "Yeah, but you WILL still means not yet."
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

"I will pay you tomorrow" doesn't mean money is in you pocket today.

If she didn't consent, she could have said so, and it would have gone from you WILL to you WONT, haha

________________________________________________

SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 04:29 PM

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124. "maybe."
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

fuck you.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Dec-23-15 03:14 PM

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97. "typa question a nigga who hates christmas cards would ask"
In response to Reply # 0


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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DVS
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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Wed Dec-23-15 03:22 PM

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101. "Only on THIS site would this conversation occur"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

#Godwasarapist

D

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Waldorf and Statler Vol 4:CONAN IS OUT NOW!!!: http://waldorfandstatler.bandcamp.com

and don't forget to check "DVS 4 ALDERMAN"

http://windimoto.bandcamp.com/album/dvs-4-alderman-bandcamp-exclusive-expanded-editio

  

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SoWhat
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103. "I almost posted it on FB"
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

but I thought better of it. Plus I figured you ppl are more likely to actually engage the discussion without just clutching the pearls.

fuck you.

  

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Walleye
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104. "Luke 1:38 is consent and the Magnificat is downright enthusiasm"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I think the fact that she responds means she understood it as a request. The difference in power dynamic is well-taken, but it seems like having all this occur without actual intercourse is a pretty standup attempt to mitigate that.

/christmas'd

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 03:37 PM

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105. "She was impregnated and unable to consent."
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

Even without intercourse - her body was hijacked by the Alpha and Omega. Her body her choice but I dunno that she really had a choice.

fuck you.

  

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Walleye
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106. "Since God is outside of time, God wasn't hijacking - just informing"
In response to Reply # 105


          

The Alpha and the Omega is good word choice here. As far as God is concerned, Mary was always going to be pregnant. Foreknowledge may be predestination but it's not coercion.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 03:46 PM

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107. "Not requesting - informing."
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

She had no choice. It was gonna happen without regard for what SHE wanted. Her consent or lack thereof was not a factor.

That's my point. That's rape. Or at least rape-adjacent.

fuck you.

  

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Walleye
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110. "I was going to say that she had a choice by NOT being so holy"
In response to Reply # 107


          

But then I realized that I would have been the first person ever to characterize extreme holiness and faithfulness to the Lord as "asking for it"

I still think her response indicates that she took it as a question. Maybe they didn't have question marks in Koine?

Or I can just stick to the outside-of-time angle: that God informing her here isn't the same thing as, say, a rapist informing a victim "you're about to get raped". Since everything occurs in one timeless act, it's more like... professional courtesy. Which, you're right, means she can't consent. But furthermore maybe means none of us really consent to anything and then maybe destabilizes our judicial system in a fuller way than trying to prosecute God for a 2000 year old sex crime.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 03:58 PM

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113. "Lol"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

I doubt a prosecutor would charge the Holy Spirit with a crime (talk about prosecutorial bias!!) or that a jury would convict THS (who could be impartial? who are THS's peers?). But outside of that the conception story is creepy as all hell and pretty rapey. That's all I'm saying. Lol

fuck you.

  

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Walleye
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117. "And maybe creepier by trying to make it less rapey"
In response to Reply # 113


          

Like, there are plenty of mythological analogues for the gods coming down and banging their way through mortal civilization. If you want to treat the annunciation as something that owes a lot to those traditions, it's almost worse that they wrote and were like "yeah, but it's okay because there's no sex. that makes sense right? it's not like we've got Zeus fucking Io and turning her into a cow. we kept it classy."

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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SoWhat
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121. "lol"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

agreed.

fuck you.

  

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Novembersgift
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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Wed Dec-23-15 03:58 PM

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112. "RE: did God rape Mary?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think it's an interesting question and one I've discussed with people before in slightly different way.
Saw on the news earlier this week that there's a local play happening that retells the birth of Jesus with the story set in present-day Brooklyn. That led me to thinking about how a teen girl who showed up pregnant yet insisted she was a virgin, impregnated by God and destined to bring forth a savior would be received. Yall better hope your Lord doesn't try to come back the same way he got here because no one would believe that story.

I digress... It got me to thinking about the story of Jesus' conception. People of the Bible did all kinds of things because God said so and people today would do so too. I don't think "choice" would've even factored in. I don't think Abraham wanted to kill Isaac but he did choose to do so... he chose to obey God and if a consequence of that was to kill his son, then so be it. He trusted that God knew things he did not. Mary probably also believed as such and it never occurred to her seriously to choose otherwise, if choice was even a consideration.

I'm no Christian but I would think that faith should withstand questioning, curiosity and criticism. Indeed, it should be viewed as an opportunity. A lot of Christian folk get super defensive about it though, as though even calling the question is an affront. We live in a majority Christian country and people of other faiths/no faith are constantly bombarded with pro-Christian imagery, messaging, customs, etc. I think we can deal with a few hypothetical, imaginative questions that invite people to think. Even as we wrap presents and listen to Mariah Carey's Christmas album on endless, godforsaken loop.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 04:00 PM

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115. "*daps*"
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Novembersgift
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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Wed Dec-23-15 04:23 PM

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120. "RE: *daps*"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

My LS who is in seminary right now just posted about this recently on FB:
"I'm feeling so weird about Mary, this word "virgin," and the daggon Angel standing in her living room. This "virgin" word makes me itch. I don't care how it was intended. How we use it now to talk about Mary? Makes me itch.
How you gon say "no thanks" to an angel in your living room, fam? How?!?!"

The discussion emerging is interesting with several other women who went to seminary speaking about preaching the power of Mary in her own right and not necessarily deriving from her virginity.

" I'll have to share my sermon with you that I'm preaching this Sunday. The turn that I'm making is that Mary's virginity might be a device used by the writers to express how the Christ-power that is to grow within her is not put there by any other human--especially not a man. And then taking that to discuss the Christ-power in us all and how it's between us and God. This is not to say the whole thing doesn't make me itch, too. That's just where I'm taking it this week. We have whitewashed/"purified" Mary so much that her virginity has become about her "purity" rather than her power to house and deliver Christ in the midst of her social location. And yet she still got stuck in a barn."

Just thought that ongoing convo was interesting in that it's being led and engaged in by Christians, theologians, women, feminists, queer POC, etc. Not just people trying to "troll" on here.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 04:28 PM

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123. "word up."
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

i knew i couldn't be the only person who's at least a little troubled by the conception story.

fuck you.

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
20180 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 11:18 PM

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131. "Bruh, I'm African & brought this up as a kid. Shyt, almost got me stoned..."
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

>i knew i couldn't be the only person who's at least a little
>troubled by the conception story.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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MME
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Wed Dec-23-15 04:27 PM

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122. "Here's what I think, SoWhat..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think if Mary had said no...God would have simply found someone else. Simple. I don't think He would've smitten her or anything like that. He would have simply moved on and found another young woman.

But more to the point about the rape thing, I see what you're saying, but I don't see it that way because God was all knowing and omnipotent and he knew Mary loved Him and had a heart for God. So that's why I think he told her what He was going to do.

My 2 cents.

____________________________

FUCK DONALD TRUMP

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 04:30 PM

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125. "great."
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

i've always thought the story was creepy - even as a kid. and as an adult i think it's even more creepy than i did then.

and now i see that's also at least somewhat rapey.

fuck you.

  

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MME
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Wed Dec-23-15 04:48 PM

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126. "RE: great."
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

>i've always thought the story was creepy - even as a kid.
>and as an adult i think it's even more creepy than i did
>then.
>
>and now i see that's also at least somewhat rapey.

I'm sorry

____________________________

FUCK DONALD TRUMP

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-23-15 04:52 PM

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127. "ok."
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

fuck you.

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42189 posts
Wed Dec-23-15 09:55 PM

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128. "Reread it with Gabriel used as a symbolism"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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theprofessional
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Wed Dec-23-15 10:50 PM

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129. "well, she *was* under the age of consent"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

as a society, we've decided that it's not possible for an underage girl to consent to sex with an adult male. any sexual contact in that scenario is rape, no matter what the girl says, due to the difference in maturity/power/etc of the two individuals involved. that difference is magnified by infinity when talking about the all-powerful creator of the universe versus an underage girl. by our society's definition, it wouldn't be possible for mary to consent (or really any woman of any age, if we use discrepancy in maturity/power as a measure of consent). verse 38 is irrelevant to the discussion.

"rape" is a loaded word here though, because, as far as we know, there was no sexual contact involved in the conception. God just spoke it and it was. but still, there's the issue of impregnating an underage girl (keeping in mind that she's underage by our standards, not the standards of the time, for whatever that's worth).

i can see why people are mad about the question; it's easy to take the wrong way. but it's an interesting discussion about the things we as a society have chosen to normalize versus things that are immediately repulsive to us, and how thin that line actually is, especially when it comes to religion.

"i smack clowns with nouns, punch herbs with verbs..."

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Wed Dec-23-15 10:59 PM

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130. "No, he just molested her but only in sprit - Corinthians 2:16 "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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rdhull
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Wed Dec-23-15 11:23 PM

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132. "'Merry Christmas, Charlie Brown!' "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

lol

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu Dec-24-15 09:06 AM

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133. "I initially had a Caseone reaction. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and said I wouldn't touch this post...but of course curiosity got the best of me.

I am glad I did because the exercise of thinking it through allows me to get to a good answer and strengthen my conviction. I think the strongest opinions are the ones that survive intense scrutiny.

Anyway, I think there are three strong answers.

1. There was no rape because there was no sex. It's a technical answer and doesn't address whether there was a violation of her body against her will but you can't have rape without sex of physical contact.

2. I think the strongest answer is that there was consent per the verse cited above.

3. Good is omniscient, so he knew Mary was down. Same way if I unexpectedly threw my wife on the bed, and strip her clothes off and we did it and she loved it. I know my wife, I know what she likes. I knew she would enjoy it, so it's all good. Same with God and Mary. Like someone said above, if Mary wasn't down, he wouldn't have selected her in the first place.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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2.tears.in.a.bucket
Member since Sep 04th 2009
6185 posts
Thu Dec-24-15 10:24 AM

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137. "He got mind-control over these hoes. "
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Dec-24-15 10:27 AM by 2.tears.in.a.bucket

  

          

the original capt. save 'em.

they abandon poles & street-corners for tha god

♚♚♚♚

#BYLUG >>> https://goo.gl/1ooFp6

♚♚♚♚

screamin' mothafuck a 12 /
bitches ain't shit /
cops ain't neither /
they huntin' my people /

- i. rashad

♚♚♚♚

  

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Case_One
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Thu Dec-24-15 10:36 AM

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138. "I'm just gonna drop 1 John 3:8 and let it cook for the thinking person "
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Dec-24-15 10:37 AM by Case_One

          

I took a nap yesterday and when I woke up the Holy Spirit gave me this scripture and showed me how the scripture covers the OP intention, question, and the answer to the question. It can even take you deeper into the matter if you seek understanding.



1 John 3:8 – New International Version (NIV)

8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.



.
.
.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu Dec-24-15 03:48 PM

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142. "It's not that deep, you went ad hominem. That's the easy route. "
In response to Reply # 138


  

          


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Case_One
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Thu Dec-24-15 05:39 PM

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144. "If you got that then you missed the point, meaning, and insight. "
In response to Reply # 142


          

And I didn't go any route. That's another miss by you too.
.
.
.

  

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MME
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Thu Dec-24-15 07:55 PM

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145. "RE: If you got that then you missed the point, meaning, and insight. "
In response to Reply # 144
Thu Dec-24-15 07:55 PM by MME

  

          

>And I didn't go any route. That's another miss by you too.


Of course it was. Everyone else misses everything....except you. You don't miss anything.

Oh, .....#307....you did miss that. Intentionally.

Happy Holidays.

____________________________

FUCK DONALD TRUMP

  

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Case_One
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Thu Dec-24-15 09:17 PM

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147. "I hope that you receive the gift of happiness this year. "
In response to Reply # 145


          


.
.
.

  

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MME
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Fri Dec-25-15 10:11 AM

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149. "fuck you."
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

>
>.
>.
>.

____________________________

FUCK DONALD TRUMP

  

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Case_One
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Sat Dec-26-15 12:26 PM

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153. "Maybe next year. "
In response to Reply # 149


          


.
.
.

  

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Mynoriti
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Sat Dec-26-15 12:38 PM

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154. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

--------
http://ambitiondeficitdisorder.tumblr.com/

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
70313 posts
Sat Dec-26-15 08:08 PM

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159. "lmao"
In response to Reply # 153


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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MME
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Sun Dec-27-15 11:21 AM

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161. "Maybe next year you'll explain #307."
In response to Reply # 153
Sun Dec-27-15 11:29 AM by MME

  

          

>
>.
>.
>.

____________________________

FUCK DONALD TRUMP

  

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Case_One
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Sun Dec-27-15 02:08 PM

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163. "You must have gotten a lump of Coal."
In response to Reply # 161


          

Figures.
.
.
.

  

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MME
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Sun Dec-27-15 04:01 PM

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164. "...and yet...still no explanation of 307"
In response to Reply # 163


  

          

>Figures.

You bet it does.

____________________________

FUCK DONALD TRUMP

  

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Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
11810 posts
Thu Dec-24-15 09:13 PM

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146. "one glaring thing being overlooked from the OP"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

scripture I think adds a lot of context that is not being appreciated for context:

"And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren. 37 For nothing will be impossible with God." 38 And Mary said, "Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her."


Dont overlook 1. That Mary's cuzzo was Elizabeth, and her being with child was basically a miracle, one her and her husband desperately prayed for. Mary knew of this news for 6 months before Gabriel stepped to her with what I still see as a proposition.

It's not rape because as a devout Hebrew woman her and many generatioms before had been waiting for the Messiah, so for an angel to step up on some "I Choose You" with Willie Hutch in the background, her faith already gave consent. This was laid in the ground work since Genesis, and then God came down and blessed Elizabeth, and Mary heard. It's much less creepy when you think of it from the perspective of a people waiting on their savior, and not on some Maury who's the daddy steez.

$0.02

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#13irteen

  

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luminous
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Fri Dec-25-15 03:43 PM

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150. "No because it is quite obvious"
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That Mary had concentual sex with joesph... The dude she was shacking up with... Or maybe she jacked him off then fingered herself, thus preserving her virginity, but also still getting pregnant...

--
Sometimes you have to look reality in the face and say 'No!'
-Ben (Reaper)

  

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Tw3nty
Member since Jan 02nd 2007
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Sat Dec-26-15 11:18 AM

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151. "If this was a deity from any other culture.."
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Niggas would be screaming rape.
Cognitive dissonance won't allow Christians to be fair or reasonable.
It's rape B.
She did not ask or consent to pregnancy, even if there isn't sexual contact.

Also the word "virgin" did not always mean the same thing. In cultures in Northern Africa and the Middle East virgin usually meant someone who has never given birth.
If that's the case they date raped her.

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Mr. ManC
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Sat Dec-26-15 11:56 AM

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152. "Mary didn't conceive Jesus until AFTER"
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she gave consent to Gabriel. She said she was a servant of the Lord, then accepted, THEN was with child.

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Tw3nty
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Sat Dec-26-15 01:10 PM

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155. "She was 14, hence rape"
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

  

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Mr. ManC
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Sat Dec-26-15 02:31 PM

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156. "the world was created in 7 days in"
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this context. How old is 14 really?

Seriously though, her being 14 =/= an automatic qualifier for rape. She was with Joseph as well at the time, which I suppose makes him a rapist AND pedophile.

Context is key to anything and everything in the Bible.

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Sun Dec-27-15 02:02 PM

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162. "Don't we have to know the age of consent there at the time?"
In response to Reply # 155


          

In the R.Kelly post, SoWhat argued that
Prince wasn't guilty because the age of
consent where he was is 16, so according
to the very author of this post, the laws
of the land determine right and wrong.

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"Until you get outta my way, I don't wanna hear what you say aye aye"

  

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RS
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Sat Dec-26-15 03:53 PM

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157. "Nope"
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Mary, the mother of Jesus, who doesn't exist? nope, not at all.

  

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Garhart Poppwell
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Sat Dec-26-15 07:08 PM

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158. "annnnnnd here we go"
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>Mary, the mother of Jesus, who doesn't exist? nope, not at
>all.

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CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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