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Subject: "Why do people in 2014 think $15 for minimum wage is required?" This topic is locked.
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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Mon May-05-14 12:20 PM

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"Why do people in 2014 think $15 for minimum wage is required?"


          

Does the value of a job and the work you do not matter anymore?

You're not SUPPOSED to live on minimum wage.

People don't understand this.

Its a FLOOR the government uses to make sure you don't get absolutely screwed...but you're not supposed to use that as a standard to live your life.

It seems hard to get people to understand that THEIR WORK just ain't that valuable sometimes.

But the hardest thing is to get people to discuss this WITHOUT bringing up some talking point about CEO pay without discussing alternatives like:

- industry specific minimum wages

- linked executive pay to employee pay

- universal incomes


But if you tell people, "yo, I think your entry level unskilled effort ain't worth much," then you have to be THE WORST person on earth.

Are we afraid of the truth about the work some of us do???

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
The problem is a large segment of the American population does
May 05th 2014
1
retail and fast food should not be $15.00 an hr
May 05th 2014
2
      Why not?
May 05th 2014
4
      Do people really expect to MAKE A LIVING off McD's though???
May 05th 2014
18
      Why. the majority of the population eats that bullshit.
May 05th 2014
5
      YUP.
May 05th 2014
8
      true, true
May 05th 2014
123
      why?
May 05th 2014
7
           Minimum wage IS NOT nor was it ever A LIVING WAGE
May 05th 2014
10
                Its the EMPLOYERS, not the employees that have done this though
May 05th 2014
11
                lol right.
May 05th 2014
12
                     You're being real passive though...
May 05th 2014
15
                          LOL
May 05th 2014
16
                               We're talking MINIMUM WAGE...not mid-level, internal company BS
May 05th 2014
19
                                    My point is minimum wage jobs are important and not disposable
May 05th 2014
34
                why do you, as a taxpayer, want to subsdize corporations?
May 05th 2014
17
                     I support a mini-wage increase but $15 is absurd on all 2014 levels
May 05th 2014
22
                          so you're saying that raising minimum wage increases dependency
May 05th 2014
24
                          That's the thing though; those jobs NEED to be filled
May 05th 2014
25
                               we don't need college professors, we don't need fast food workers
May 07th 2014
275
damn yo good pull nobody's ever thought of that.
May 05th 2014
3
because the world done changed.
May 05th 2014
6
uh oh. somoene making $17 worried mcds workers gainin on em.
May 05th 2014
9
If anything people should be out protesting and demanding
May 05th 2014
13
niggas who already got good jobs are good.
May 05th 2014
14
But they could be doing better.
May 05th 2014
      lmao
May 05th 2014
31
      what brand?
May 05th 2014
43
           Wouldn't you like to know....
May 05th 2014
56
                Long as they don't let you around breyers
May 05th 2014
124
exactly. you have more sense than most of the educated folks here..
May 05th 2014
23
uhhh......thanx
May 05th 2014
30
      lol
May 05th 2014
79
      Nigga peeped that slick shot she sent. lmfao
May 06th 2014
188
this is where we should be
May 05th 2014
51
for real tho.
May 05th 2014
20
in a way, i sympathize, because i have that impulse
May 05th 2014
28
      middle class wages are too low as well...
May 05th 2014
41
           we're a country with the most rapidly evaporating middle class tho
May 05th 2014
107
i'm sure you got more hoes than them.
May 05th 2014
21
because $15/h only equals $31,200 / year.
May 05th 2014
26
You come off so irate about everything
May 05th 2014
27
you're like Larry Elders, Glenn Beck & Rush Limbaugh with a Roots cd
May 05th 2014
29
apparently it doesn't matter to you
May 05th 2014
32
Because no person who works a full time job should live in poverty
May 05th 2014
33
^^^^^
May 05th 2014
35
Plus it frees up money in the economy. That woman making $5
May 05th 2014
36
One more - I BET it decreases out of wedlock births as well
May 05th 2014
37
      shame of not being able to provide for one's family
May 05th 2014
39
           You know whats shameful? Never making more than MIN wage
May 06th 2014
231
Poverty is defined based on the environment, not your wage
May 05th 2014
38
who gives a fuck about that tho, it's CAUSED by your wage.
May 05th 2014
58
that's a rather utopian way of looking at things.
May 05th 2014
68
      LOL...it's a JOB
May 05th 2014
71
           still looking at it wrong
May 05th 2014
111
                no one's making it equal though
May 06th 2014
147
                     Whats this got to do with MIN WAGE? The govt cant always save you
May 06th 2014
151
                          this...
May 06th 2014
180
                               circular arguments
May 06th 2014
181
                                    RE: circular arguments
May 06th 2014
212
                                    Dawg. The minimum wage applies to EVERY SINGLE BUSINESS.
May 06th 2014
230
                                         LOL...it's over
May 07th 2014
276
There is no way in hell a 16yr old should $120 for scoopin ice cream
May 05th 2014
40
Australia has a tiered minimum wage based on age
May 05th 2014
42
Yall need to be more pacific then
May 05th 2014
45
      i'm not hiring a teenager when i can get adults with experience
May 05th 2014
49
           you might be surprised. . .
May 05th 2014
53
           Experience scooping ice cream cones?
May 05th 2014
55
                experience being professional
May 05th 2014
57
                     Yall being extra
May 05th 2014
59
                     there are plenty of adults that aren't professional
May 05th 2014
84
                          the PERCEPTION is he doesnt need that money...
May 05th 2014
96
in 2014 adults are doing those jobs..
May 05th 2014
44
Aint my fault...
May 05th 2014
46
      LOL. America ladies and gentleman. Ain't My Fault indeed
May 05th 2014
47
           they have tricked us into arguing against our self-interest.
May 05th 2014
48
           not all of us...
May 05th 2014
50
           right?
May 05th 2014
61
           yep.
May 05th 2014
69
           been saying it for years.
May 07th 2014
292
           It is all about planning.
May 05th 2014
54
                This is already happening though
May 05th 2014
62
                     RE: This is exactly why I've diversified my revenue streams
May 05th 2014
67
right this isn't 1960, he should have to go into debt 100k for college
May 05th 2014
82
Johns Hopkins workers were striking a couple weeks ago tryin to get
May 05th 2014
52
My God (c)CL Smooth
May 05th 2014
63
If the minium wage gets raised to $15...
May 05th 2014
60
We pay SAP gurus with 10yrs experience 15 times min wage
May 05th 2014
65
But they would still make a profit.
May 05th 2014
70
Why make such broad stroked conjectures?
May 05th 2014
73
This is why you need to focus this morality to BUSINESS, not Govt
May 05th 2014
83
ur focused on CEO pay as if this has ANYTHING to do with min wage
May 05th 2014
98
they ain't trying to listen
May 05th 2014
125
^^^^^
May 05th 2014
66
$15 in NYC and LA maybe...
May 05th 2014
64
it's some strange arguments in here
May 05th 2014
72
you been killing it all day, fam
May 05th 2014
75
it's cognitive dissonance everywhere
May 05th 2014
76
Why should a wage FLOOR equate a living standard?
May 05th 2014
77
this is stupid...it should because IT CAN
May 05th 2014
90
      Whats your argument against paying fastfood workers $100/hour?
May 05th 2014
94
           im done treating you as a reasonable person
May 05th 2014
105
           You compared NBA players to jobs 16 year olds can do, tho
May 05th 2014
113
                Um, YOU brought the NBA into the discussion. The fuck...
May 06th 2014
208
           "next we'll be marrying our dogs"
May 05th 2014
110
this
May 05th 2014
80
so we can add "poor people" to the list of things (some) okps hate.
May 05th 2014
74
people wont admit they just want/need someone to look down on
May 05th 2014
78
i made this point earlier. some people are clearly dumb too...
May 05th 2014
81
Why change mini wage instead of telling companies how to spend $$$?
May 05th 2014
89
      which ways are those?
May 05th 2014
92
           Listed in the OP. Yall are exploiting something beyond its intention
May 05th 2014
102
                only thing being exploited are the people
May 05th 2014
104
                     The ARE being paid. You just dont like that they not making career money
May 05th 2014
114
                          not properly
May 06th 2014
192
                               WalMart door greeter shouldnt be disrespected
May 06th 2014
225
                               I'm not "acting"
May 07th 2014
256
                                    you equated door greeters to ibankers and doctors
May 07th 2014
268
                                         $15 an hour isn't a cushy life
May 08th 2014
305
                               You're talking class warfare, but wont address MINIMUM wage
May 06th 2014
229
                                    I've been addressing it
May 07th 2014
254
                                         you keep using class in this ivory tower wannabe academic level
May 07th 2014
263
                                              the people who are arguing against
May 07th 2014
267
                                                   If you want a decent wage, dont work for the bare minimum
May 07th 2014
270
                                                        You find them better jobs
May 07th 2014
289
                                                             I'll throw you a few
May 07th 2014
297
                                                                  I specifically said
May 07th 2014
301
                                                                       the mere fact that there are jobs available is enough
May 08th 2014
303
                                                                            No it's not
May 08th 2014
304
                                                                                 what about those that dont WANT to work?
May 08th 2014
307
You sound more insecure though. Why does low effort work need $15?
May 05th 2014
85
if the minimum wage kept pace with inflation it would be at $21/hr
May 05th 2014
86
This only assumes that theres a meaningful place to pin it.
May 05th 2014
95
"low effort work" see what i mean?
May 05th 2014
108
      So its "fox and friends" to ignore that NOT ALL JOBS ARE EQUAL?
May 05th 2014
116
           please show me where i said all jobs are equal
May 05th 2014
120
yup
May 05th 2014
136
working people are going to eat and have roofs over their heads.
May 05th 2014
87
OR people should understand the govt isn't responsible for that
May 05th 2014
91
      it's clear you don't understand a lot and that's ok
May 05th 2014
93
      As a leftie, its frustrating to see the wall you face if you dissent
May 05th 2014
97
      Current minimum wage can't even cover rent, LOL
May 05th 2014
99
           It was NEVER intended to. Adults gotta figure that out.
May 05th 2014
100
                So whats the solution. A large amount of jobs will strictly be minimum ...
May 05th 2014
101
                     You don't address those problems by increasing the floor by 2x the rate.
May 05th 2014
103
                          not if all wages go up...
May 05th 2014
106
                               Wages go up, employees get more expensive, and PRICES go up
May 05th 2014
117
                               It does though
May 05th 2014
121
                                    CEO remarks don't address MINIMUM wage, not skilled labor
May 05th 2014
122
                                         They not understanding math
May 06th 2014
145
                                              Thanks for proving my point! LOL
May 06th 2014
172
                                                   I hate to defend corporations, but if youre public your margins are THIN
May 06th 2014
228
                               you sell vintage clothing...
May 06th 2014
168
i've never made $15 and hr
May 05th 2014
88
qualify it though
May 05th 2014
133
i've lived in several cities and it still wouldn't be enough
May 05th 2014
135
      RE: i've lived in several cities and it still wouldn't be enough
May 06th 2014
140
      true.. I made $14 an hour in Philly and did alright...
May 06th 2014
170
      nope not true
May 06th 2014
174
      still not feelin it
May 06th 2014
184
      yea I've definitely lived off of that here
May 06th 2014
195
           I know, but this is OKP... the voice of reason is meaningless here.
May 06th 2014
235
      Well stop being qualified for minimum wage work like 95% of people?
May 06th 2014
153
           lol, i'm more than qualified for minimum wage work
May 06th 2014
173
                if the field you've chosen doesn't pay worth a damn...
May 06th 2014
186
                     so we should have no artists art teachers or museums?
May 06th 2014
190
                     until this country places a higher value on education...
May 06th 2014
201
                     This sort of attitude is why STEM people are seen as assholes
May 06th 2014
227
                          Exactly
May 06th 2014
243
                     Since when is adjunct limited to the arts?
May 07th 2014
250
i lived off that my first job in baltimore and
May 06th 2014
158
      The difference between you and me on 30K is...
May 06th 2014
206
      the opportunity to own my car free and clear
May 07th 2014
281
      Our rent at that last spot was $1200/month
May 07th 2014
251
Because they need enough resources to live decently
May 05th 2014
109
Again, youre repeating the fatal FLAW of minimum wage = living wage
May 05th 2014
118
      nah, you're the one not getting it
May 06th 2014
165
           So why are you working for minimum wage? Thats the problem.
May 06th 2014
226
                Thise are the jobs most available and in demand
May 07th 2014
258
                     Sure. They're not slaves. Now define "decent"
May 07th 2014
274
                          $15 an hour to start
May 07th 2014
302
Why are you a meat peeper?
May 05th 2014
112
WTF? Australia is a WAY more expensive country to live in w/ weaker mone...
May 05th 2014
119
      1 Australian Dollar equals 0.93 US Dollar
May 06th 2014
143
           The US dollar goes farther. Australia is expensive as hell
May 06th 2014
152
           US is expensive. 1/2 my $ goes to student loans/retirement/healthcare
May 06th 2014
166
           Do my research?
May 06th 2014
191
                LOL
May 06th 2014
234
           Exchange rate isn't what you should be looking at. Look at PPP
May 06th 2014
198
                I'm not disputing this, by the way.
May 06th 2014
202
make my burgers, faggot
May 05th 2014
115
$15 Minimum Wage helps small businesses
May 05th 2014
126
Amazon prices would go up as well...
May 06th 2014
203
Like I said else where. Australia's population is like metro NYC
May 06th 2014
224
Wages don't go up in a bubble, smart guy.
May 06th 2014
223
because the apparently want more unemployment..
May 05th 2014
127
The people that do, do not understand business. Period.
May 05th 2014
128
Nah, we just don't think that profiting at the expense of
May 05th 2014
129
you mean other nations with WAY more taxes?
May 05th 2014
130
      I'm okay with more taxes
May 05th 2014
132
           LoL
May 06th 2014
144
           But honestly, that's because of alot of the attitudes in the post
May 06th 2014
175
                You can't keep taxes low AND complain about a lack of social net
May 06th 2014
222
                     You will never hear me complain about keeping taxes LOW
May 06th 2014
238
           Or less taxes & YOU can spend your money how you like
May 07th 2014
271
                Nah, I like modern society
May 07th 2014
282
                     Dudes wanna go back to that Deadwood Western way of life
May 07th 2014
286
you can understand something & still think its wrong
May 06th 2014
155
if you had to pay your employees $15/hr. your customers
May 06th 2014
159
With all due respect, I think you and others like you
May 06th 2014
169
      do we really want people making $15/hr spending more?
May 06th 2014
197
           YES!
May 06th 2014
199
           its not good for them
May 06th 2014
204
                when people made more adjusted for inflation they borrowed less
May 06th 2014
207
                     im not talking about borrowing
May 06th 2014
244
                          but that's what debt is
May 07th 2014
299
           "all this disposable income?"
May 06th 2014
239
                what are you talking about?
May 06th 2014
241
                     LOL shit
May 06th 2014
242
the # of people that articulated why this post is stupid is encouraging....
May 05th 2014
131
The most valuable thing in a persons life is time and work
May 05th 2014
134
If anyone works full time, they should make a basic living wage
May 05th 2014
137
      Its not the governments job to ensure that. Thats not what min wage is f...
May 06th 2014
149
           who should pay for their food, clothing and shelter?
May 06th 2014
156
           MINIMUM WAGE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A LIVING WAGE
May 06th 2014
220
                says who? you making up rules for society now?
May 07th 2014
249
                So you're conceding you have no argument
May 08th 2014
311
           well who is going to regulate it if they don't?
May 06th 2014
161
           Wage increase? Cool. $15 MINIMUM? GTFOH.
May 06th 2014
219
                We already accomodate everyone's well being
May 07th 2014
247
           I think that speaks to a deeper issue of why people
May 06th 2014
164
In a moral, equitable society, the government needs to regulate capital
May 06th 2014
138
Corporations reporting record profits every year
May 06th 2014
139
Apple has over 140 billion dollars in banks overseas
May 06th 2014
141
the average Apple worker in the store spends 4 hours saying
May 06th 2014
148
Your reference is the biggest company where retail employees dont do muc...
May 06th 2014
150
underpaid labor is a *source* of said profit
May 06th 2014
157
      yes, but buying stocks is hard work so i want that profit...
May 06th 2014
160
RE: Why do people in 2014 think $15 for minimum wage is required?
May 06th 2014
142
I doubt they even pay that much in taxes.
May 06th 2014
146
      they prolly do from cigarettes alone ha
May 06th 2014
154
      what major U.S. corporation does anymore?
May 06th 2014
162
LOL @ the misplaced anger in this Bitties-in-the-BK-Lounge-ass post n/m
May 06th 2014
163
It doesn't matter what you or I might think is "right" or "wrong,"
May 06th 2014
167
Why are you equating LIVING wage with MINIMUM wage????
May 06th 2014
218
      You keep asking that as if you've discovered something profound.
May 06th 2014
236
my only thoughts on the issue are:
May 06th 2014
171
Define "enough to live where they are"
May 06th 2014
217
      RE: Define "enough to live where they are"
May 07th 2014
262
I think part of the push back which nobody wants to say is
May 06th 2014
176
YYYYYUUUUUUP.
May 06th 2014
177
Yes sir!
May 06th 2014
179
Crazy because I used to hold my nose up high and say I wouldn't
May 06th 2014
183
^^^^^^^^like a 27 inch Zenith^^^^^^^^
May 06th 2014
185
yep... colleges wouldn't be happy as well.
May 06th 2014
187
exactly
May 06th 2014
193
There it is ^^^^
May 06th 2014
196
No sweetheart, you're trying to trivalize what you don't understand
May 06th 2014
216
      Well bless your heart bitch!
May 07th 2014
252
           this is some ole Dr Seuss shit here
May 07th 2014
253
           Still trying to psychoanalyze isntead of addressing policy
May 07th 2014
261
This is classic DEFLECTION bullshit.Stop trying to intellectualize this
May 06th 2014
215
We are saying your argument is fundementally flawed
May 06th 2014
240
      Still more irrevalent nonsense
May 07th 2014
260
           So what should you do?
May 07th 2014
264
this has been what ive been hollering.
May 07th 2014
259
No one will ever address this... EVER.
May 07th 2014
277
everything get's reset at a higher cost
May 07th 2014
278
Truthy
May 07th 2014
298
the problem isnt w/how people view it, it's how employers view it IMO
May 06th 2014
178
*shrug* why not just print more money?
May 06th 2014
182
basically...
May 06th 2014
189
I hope you're not serious...
May 06th 2014
214
      He's probably joking, but he's absolutely right.
May 06th 2014
237
Robert Reich: The 4 biggest right-wing lies about income inequality
May 06th 2014
194
The crazy thing is you don't even need a PhD in Econ to understand this.
May 06th 2014
200
      It's not that cut and dry
May 06th 2014
205
      you think you know better than robert reich... ?
May 06th 2014
209
           lol.There are Harvard/Stanford Phds who disagree w/ Harvard/Stanford PhD...
May 06th 2014
211
           folks dont know the beef b/w the east coast and chicago economics
May 06th 2014
232
           He isnt an authority on ALL topics. Hes all over the place
May 06th 2014
213
      Consistently and ridiculously
May 07th 2014
257
I'm not arguing that multi-million dollar corporations shouldn't pay
May 06th 2014
210
RE: I'm not arguing that multi-million dollar corporations shouldn't pay
May 06th 2014
233
yup
May 06th 2014
246
most small businesses support an increase. youre in the minority
May 07th 2014
272
exactly.. mom and pops can barely stay open as it is...
May 07th 2014
279
      You've ID'd the problem, but its not min wage
May 07th 2014
294
Small biz employs the most folks in the USA
May 06th 2014
221
We can't act like small business don't exploit workers for greater profi...
May 06th 2014
245
^^^^^
May 07th 2014
248
My mom worked for a ridiculous amount of small businesses
May 07th 2014
255
i hope to never ever work for a small time employer again
May 07th 2014
283
BINGO BANGO ITS IN THE NET
May 07th 2014
295
that's only w/definitions of 20mil revenue yr or 500 employees
May 07th 2014
265
Please say this shit so they can hear you.
May 07th 2014
273
this is how warped the debate is. "Punishment"
May 07th 2014
266
to a mom and pop it is punishment
May 07th 2014
280
      then mom and pop need to find something else to do w/their time.
May 07th 2014
285
           nope
May 07th 2014
287
But Walmart employs the largest percentage of people
May 07th 2014
269
if they can't afford to pay their employees they should maybe
May 07th 2014
284
      stone cold
May 07th 2014
288
there is a story about a chimp; this is a TRUE story.
May 07th 2014
290
RE:that have to chose between rent, or food, or medicine.
May 07th 2014
291
Your Paycheck Results Net Pay $386.50
May 07th 2014
293
some real fucking chowderheads in here
May 07th 2014
296
i'm willing to concede more than i was originally
May 07th 2014
300
i conceited too. but you're trying to have govt regulate/run biz
May 08th 2014
306
      conceded, nigga. how abt we dont use words we cant spell. nm
May 08th 2014
308
           LoL you dont think i know that? chill essay. n/m
May 08th 2014
310
the fed govt dont even pay a min of $15. why dont obama start there!
May 08th 2014
309
Raising gov wages without raising minimum wage would be a nightmare
May 08th 2014
312
      why? name a few.
May 08th 2014
313
it is 11pm, i have been up since 5am wont sleep til 1am back up at 4am
May 21st 2014
314
lol
May 22nd 2014
315
Because people have too many fucking kids
May 22nd 2014
316

BigReg
Charter member
62390 posts
Mon May-05-14 12:28 PM

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1. "The problem is a large segment of the American population does"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon May-05-14 12:29 PM by BigReg

  

          

>You're not SUPPOSED to live on minimum wage.
>
>People don't understand this.

>It seems hard to get people to understand that THEIR WORK just
>ain't that valuable sometimes.

It is. On the flipside people have the idea that because it's not 'specialized' and assume that 'anyone can do it' that it's a job of little to no worth thus shouldn't be paid. Not everyone can be bankers, and neither is that job that much more important when you get down to someone working retail, restaurant industry, etc.

On top of the fact those non-livable wages we ultimately pay for in taxes anyway since somehow, some way, the govt subsidizes (indirectly and inefficiently) them.

  

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rdhull
Charter member
33137 posts
Mon May-05-14 12:32 PM

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2. "retail and fast food should not be $15.00 an hr"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

  

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BigReg
Charter member
62390 posts
Mon May-05-14 12:39 PM

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4. "Why not?"
In response to Reply # 2
Mon May-05-14 12:40 PM by BigReg

  

          

Mind you, I admit I am in NYC so my perception of a living wage is skewered.

But 15 dollars brings you right under 30 k, which is around the median salary if my memory serves me right? Also retail is infamous for keeping their workers unemployed so its not like they have a chance of hitting those 40, really more like 25-30 hours a week on average.

I don't see how this pay bump is seen as an apocalyptic thing when it's all relative; at least the extra 6-7 dollars you are bumping them up by will go right back into the economy as opposed to just getting hoarded in a 401k/IRA (which is a BAD thing on a personal level, but still)

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Mon May-05-14 12:53 PM

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18. "Do people really expect to MAKE A LIVING off McD's though???"
In response to Reply # 4


          

Like...was this a career move or what?

  

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Below The Mason Dixon
Member since Oct 11th 2011
18159 posts
Mon May-05-14 12:39 PM

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5. "Why. the majority of the population eats that bullshit."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

They do more work than the average desk jockey.

"Give a woman the moon, bitch will want another moon to go with it"

(C) My Nigga Randall

  

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BigReg
Charter member
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Mon May-05-14 12:41 PM

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8. "YUP. "
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

  

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rdhull
Charter member
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Mon May-05-14 06:26 PM

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123. "true, true"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

  

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mwasi kitoko
Member since Jul 15th 2007
60768 posts
Mon May-05-14 12:41 PM

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7. "why?"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

i've worked retail and made that much
depending on where you live you will still be struggling at $15
it will just be more comfortable and just low enough so ppl like you don't complain about how much other ppl should be making for a job you not even TRYING to do anyway.
somebody gotta do that shit.
anyway minimum wage should reflect inflation and it hasn't in over 20 some odd years
when my dad worked for a bank back in the 70s he was making like $3 an hour
and he talks about it like it was a great paying job (for a single guy in NY)
its not about the number its about being able to live and work.
not just work to make enough money to make it right the fuck back to work.
ppl get caught up in the number and act like rents aren't rising every year
and things aren't getting more expensive. meanwhile ppl are supposed to be able to
keep up on $7/hr? jobs is short so please don't say shit about they need to
get a better job either. people are coming out of college with degrees and
have no choice but to work some of these jobs.

anyway its not about the number. ppl should be able to live off of what they work for.
if they're good enough to serve you WHEREVER or clean your toilets or scrub whatever
shit you and most ppl aren't willing to scrub they should paid enough so they can live
a decent life and not be starving at the end of each week even after getting paid.

www.royallegacy.org
http://therapfest.com/up-next-artists/

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 12:42 PM

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10. "Minimum wage IS NOT nor was it ever A LIVING WAGE"
In response to Reply # 7


          

Stop expecting that scraping by entitles you to XYZ sort of life.

I never understood that.

Minimum wage is a barrier, not a standard.

  

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BigReg
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11. "Its the EMPLOYERS, not the employees that have done this though"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

>Minimum wage is a barrier, not a standard.

  

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mwasi kitoko
Member since Jul 15th 2007
60768 posts
Mon May-05-14 12:45 PM

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12. "lol right. "
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

smh "there should be a slave class bc there has always been a slave class in this country" that's how i read stupid shit like that.

www.royallegacy.org
http://therapfest.com/up-next-artists/

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 12:48 PM

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15. "You're being real passive though..."
In response to Reply # 12


          

So why aren't you taking it up with the companies, and not the government?

The government sets the stage, the companies just play to what is going on.

if you're worth more, you get paid more.

  

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BigReg
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16. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

>if you're worth more, you get paid more.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/sunday-review/americas-productivity-climbs-but-wages-stagnate.html?_r=0

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 12:53 PM

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19. "We're talking MINIMUM WAGE...not mid-level, internal company BS"
In response to Reply # 16


          

Stay focused.

This is how the convo gets side-tracked.

  

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BigReg
Charter member
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34. "My point is minimum wage jobs are important and not disposable"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

you NEED that workforce there(because those jobs need to be filled), and the idea that its a job that anyone could do is laughable.

In 2014 factoring in inflation, 15 bucks isn't sadly, MUCH. We've hit a rough patch as Americans if the middle class is angry at the poor for asking to get paid more money for the jobs they do...my article is to point out that generally we have all been underpaid.

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
37201 posts
Mon May-05-14 12:51 PM

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17. "why do you, as a taxpayer, want to subsdize corporations?"
In response to Reply # 10


          

If minimum wage isn't a living wage (and this is a desirable standard) those people making minimum wage have to make ends meet somehow.

I personally don't love the idea of someone working 35 hours a week at Wal-Mart and being eligible for food stamps that they turn around and spend at Wal-Mart.

I don't know why anyone who isn't a major shareholder in Wal-Mart would.

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 12:55 PM

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22. "I support a mini-wage increase but $15 is absurd on all 2014 levels"
In response to Reply # 17


          

Cause at some point you must acknowledge that the government IS NOT always responsible for the jobs you take or the work you do.

The best they can do is help you earn SOMETHING but you can't be out here making minimum wage FOR LIFE then wondering why somethings just aint working out.

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
37201 posts
Mon May-05-14 01:00 PM

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24. "so you're saying that raising minimum wage increases dependency"
In response to Reply # 22


          

on the government?

moreso than keeping minimum wage low enough that someone can work full-time (or close) at minimum wage and be eligible for a variety of benefits (food stamps, section 8, etc.) based on their poverty?

i find your argument unpersuasive.

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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BigReg
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25. "That's the thing though; those jobs NEED to be filled"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

>The best they can do is help you earn SOMETHING but you can't
>be out here making minimum wage FOR LIFE then wondering why
>somethings just aint working out.

So your Jeromes in Camden and Jethros in Bumblefuck Wisconsin rise up, who's going to do the job they currently have, and how will the white collars deal with more competition (which they are dealing with now with college becoming the new high school?)


  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Wed May-07-14 10:37 AM

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275. "we don't need college professors, we don't need fast food workers"
In response to Reply # 25


          

we don't need daycare providers....

none of these people really matter.

  

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illegal
Charter member
78381 posts
Mon May-05-14 12:35 PM

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3. "damn yo good pull nobody's ever thought of that."
In response to Reply # 0


          

***
when I come around, they frown
then wanna dap me down
but when I leave?

  

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Neez
Member since May 02nd 2013
1083 posts
Mon May-05-14 12:40 PM

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6. "because the world done changed."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Mon May-05-14 12:42 PM

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9. "uh oh. somoene making $17 worried mcds workers gainin on em."
In response to Reply # 0


          

lol...

  

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Below The Mason Dixon
Member since Oct 11th 2011
18159 posts
Mon May-05-14 12:47 PM

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13. "If anything people should be out protesting and demanding "
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

wages go up across the board, instead of shitting on Fast food workers for making 15 an hr.

"Give a woman the moon, bitch will want another moon to go with it"

(C) My Nigga Randall

  

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Neez
Member since May 02nd 2013
1083 posts
Mon May-05-14 12:48 PM

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14. "niggas who already got good jobs are good."
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

_

  

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Below The Mason Dixon
Member since Oct 11th 2011
18159 posts
Mon May-05-14 12:55 PM

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"But they could be doing better."


  

          

I aint gonna lie. I don't make 15 an hour. And I work hard as fuck in freezing ass ice cream plant, moving heavy ass shit non stop. if they make 15 I want 17. Or I'm pissing in yall niggas ice cream.

"Give a woman the moon, bitch will want another moon to go with it"

(C) My Nigga Randall

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
37201 posts
Mon May-05-14 01:03 PM

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31. "lmao"
In response to Reply # 0


          

>I aint gonna lie. I don't make 15 an hour. And I work hard
>as fuck in freezing ass ice cream plant, moving heavy ass shit
>non stop. if they make 15 I want 17. Or I'm pissing in yall
>niggas ice cream.

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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Neez
Member since May 02nd 2013
1083 posts
Mon May-05-14 01:26 PM

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43. "what brand?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i wanna make sure i'm not eating it.

_

  

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Below The Mason Dixon
Member since Oct 11th 2011
18159 posts
Mon May-05-14 01:50 PM

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56. "Wouldn't you like to know...."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

*Rubs hands together and laughs maniacally*

"Give a woman the moon, bitch will want another moon to go with it"

(C) My Nigga Randall

  

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Neez
Member since May 02nd 2013
1083 posts
Mon May-05-14 06:28 PM

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124. "Long as they don't let you around breyers"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

I'm good

_

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Mon May-05-14 12:55 PM

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23. "exactly. you have more sense than most of the educated folks here.."
In response to Reply # 13


          

with all their degrees and insecurities.

  

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Below The Mason Dixon
Member since Oct 11th 2011
18159 posts
Mon May-05-14 01:03 PM

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30. "uhhh......thanx "
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

i guess.

"Give a woman the moon, bitch will want another moon to go with it"

(C) My Nigga Randall

  

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Grand_Royal
Charter member
33210 posts
Mon May-05-14 03:18 PM

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79. "lol"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

  

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Radio Rahim
Member since Jul 21st 2008
20320 posts
Tue May-06-14 04:47 PM

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188. "Nigga peeped that slick shot she sent. lmfao"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

__________________________
Duke, Knicks, Yankess, Giants, UGA, Rangers

Binlahab droppin science on the youth

"youre frustrated now? in undergrad? reading books all day?,
surrounded by more nubile unattached pussy than you will be in your life?"

  

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LES
Member since Oct 17th 2006
4533 posts
Mon May-05-14 01:40 PM

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51. "this is where we should be"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

>wages go up across the board, instead of shitting on Fast
>food workers for making 15 an hr.

__________
http://leswrite.com/

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Mon May-05-14 12:53 PM

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20. "for real tho."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

fuck you.

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
37201 posts
Mon May-05-14 01:02 PM

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28. "in a way, i sympathize, because i have that impulse"
In response to Reply # 9
Mon May-05-14 01:06 PM by veritas

          

$15 an hour to flip burgers? SHIIIIIT I ONLY MAKE $________ AND I'M (FANCY SOUNDING EDUCATION/TITLE!!!)

but then i put my virtriolic kneejerk reaction aside and remember that just because i'm underpaid doesn't mean i should desire others to be really underpaid.

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Mon May-05-14 01:21 PM

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41. "middle class wages are too low as well..."
In response to Reply # 28
Mon May-05-14 01:21 PM by ndibs

          

we're not the richest middle class country anymore...

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Mon May-05-14 04:19 PM

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107. "we're a country with the most rapidly evaporating middle class tho"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

>we're not the richest middle class country anymore...
>

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Mon May-05-14 12:54 PM

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21. "i'm sure you got more hoes than them. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

focus on that and don't worry about the rest.

fuck you.

  

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bruce bammer
Member since Apr 01st 2014
469 posts
Mon May-05-14 01:01 PM

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26. "because $15/h only equals $31,200 / year."
In response to Reply # 0


          

and the present min. wage of $7.25 equals $15,080 per year.

-shrugs-

i'm sure 100% of the people arguing to keep it the same make more.

---
IN THE FLESH

  

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SimplyHannah
Member since Aug 09th 2009
7226 posts
Mon May-05-14 01:01 PM

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27. "You come off so irate about everything "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Lol Jesus. Relax.

  

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Fructose Soda
Member since Feb 19th 2012
2150 posts
Mon May-05-14 01:02 PM

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29. "you're like Larry Elders, Glenn Beck & Rush Limbaugh with a Roots cd"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Sheesh.

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92696 posts
Mon May-05-14 01:05 PM

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32. "apparently it doesn't matter to you"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>Does the value of a job and the work you do not matter
>anymore?



~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
44258 posts
Mon May-05-14 01:06 PM

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33. "Because no person who works a full time job should live in poverty"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it's just that simple. I'll take it a step further too - larger min wages will lead to smaller welfare roles, lower taxes AND lower crime. Much of crime is 'needs' based, but if you can make it on a min wage job you might not be so incentivized to work outside the system.

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

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Below The Mason Dixon
Member since Oct 11th 2011
18159 posts
Mon May-05-14 01:09 PM

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35. "^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

"Give a woman the moon, bitch will want another moon to go with it"

(C) My Nigga Randall

  

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BigReg
Charter member
62390 posts
Mon May-05-14 01:10 PM

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36. "Plus it frees up money in the economy. That woman making $5"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

can afford books for her kids, MAYBE afford basic cable, fuck it, saves for a couple of years and goes on vacation which guess fucking what, leads to more jobs being created to support those things.

  

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spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
44258 posts
Mon May-05-14 01:15 PM

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37. "One more - I BET it decreases out of wedlock births as well"
In response to Reply # 36
Mon May-05-14 01:15 PM by spades

  

          

Ppl were fucking in the 50s & 60s too - but if you knocked a gir up back then you could get a job pushing a broom or an entry level factory job - you might not be rich, but you could provide for your family.

You can't really do that now as an unskilled laborer and while I don't condone the decision to shirk your responsibilities it definitely looks like the more attractive option to a kid w/no diploma and no skills.

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
37201 posts
Mon May-05-14 01:17 PM

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39. "shame of not being able to provide for one's family"
In response to Reply # 37


          

is a major reason a lot of people skip out on familial duties, no?

i dunno if it'd change the wedlock part, but it seems like more people would be inclined to provide for their children if it was remotely realistic.

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Tue May-06-14 09:23 PM

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231. "You know whats shameful? Never making more than MIN wage"
In response to Reply # 39


          

Cause if you're depending on scraping by, then I don't know what else to tell you about how your life might end up.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Mon May-05-14 01:16 PM

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38. "Poverty is defined based on the environment, not your wage"
In response to Reply # 33


          

and like 95% of all workers don't make minimum wage

  

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spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
44258 posts
Mon May-05-14 01:51 PM

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58. "who gives a fuck about that tho, it's CAUSED by your wage."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

I mean, that IS what we talking abou, right?

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Mon May-05-14 02:17 PM

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68. "that's a rather utopian way of looking at things."
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

Fast food/low end jobs ain't supposed to be your lively hood. It's a job you get when you're in high school or while you're in college or maybe while you're between gigs or waiting for that first "real" gig in your chosen field.

It is not a job you take to hold down a family. Even at $15/hr, a family of 4 would still be in poverty.

It's not a job you stay at for a long time unless you've made it clear that you want to get on a management track for a career move.

Stop trying to make these jobs into something they're not.

I worked fast food in high school and in college. I took it for what it was worth: A gig to keep some loot in my pockets and to pay the handful of bills I had.

I also worked a retail job for almost immediately after high school that paid minimum wage (then $4.25/hr) for 50-60/hrs a week. Back then, it wasn't a thought of "wow... I'm working 50-60hrs a week and technically in poverty" because I was living at home with my moms at th time. No, my thought process was "I'm finna get this Kenwood joint for my ride, some subs, and hit the titty bar or the club this weekend".
---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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Calico
Charter member
24604 posts
Mon May-05-14 02:40 PM

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71. "LOL...it's a JOB"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

...i wish people would STOP thinking of these things as just jobs for HS/college kids.....there are MILLIONS of people taking these positions that do not fit into that mold...in fact, the majority of them don't fit into that notion...

...it's a real conservative, myopic, blind man swinging at nothing view of things...you saying it's one way when it's really the other....

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Mon May-05-14 04:34 PM

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111. "still looking at it wrong"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

all jobs are not equal.

The only reason older people are flocking to these low paying jobs and complaining about the shit wages is because of the recession. The same shit happened in the late 80's during the recession Daddy Bush created... IIRC, it's also the exact same reason minimum wage was pushed up to $4.25hr back then. When most of those people were finally able to find work in their fields, they left those for higher paying gigs.

I guarantee you if it wasn't for the influx of older, more skilled workers suddenly having to take a McDs job to try to make ends meet we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. Kids know what it is already: A means to cop some gear, gas for your ride, food, movies, and assorted other bullshit. Not to try to feed kids and shit.


---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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Calico
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147. "no one's making it equal though"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

>all jobs are not equal.
>
>The only reason older people are flocking to these low paying
>jobs and complaining about the shit wages is because of the
>recession. The same shit happened in the late 80's during the
>recession Daddy Bush created... IIRC, it's also the exact same
>reason minimum wage was pushed up to $4.25hr back then. When
>most of those people were finally able to find work in their
>fields, they left those for higher paying gigs.
>
no they didn't...SOME people left, because of availability, but MOST stayed in lower paying jobs, as some have been doing since forever....everybody doesn't go to college or pichk up a useful trade, everybody doesn't have those options...acting like there was just one or two periods where people were broke and took low paying jobs is short sighted...there are periods were there were more people had to accept that because of economic troubles, but overall, there have ALWAYS been grown people who worked low paying jobs to support their families...

>I guarantee you if it wasn't for the influx of older, more
>skilled workers suddenly having to take a McDs job to try to
>make ends meet we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.
>Kids know what it is already: A means to cop some gear, gas
>for your ride, food, movies, and assorted other bullshit. Not
>to try to feed kids and shit.
>
like i said before, you're talking about a fantasy world, and idealistic world...reality doesn't refelect that at all, but ok...

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Tue May-06-14 08:29 AM

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151. "Whats this got to do with MIN WAGE? The govt cant always save you"
In response to Reply # 147


          

Yall stay with these hard luck tales but don't understand that there are more factors at play out here.

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
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Tue May-06-14 01:46 PM

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180. "this..."
In response to Reply # 151


  

          

That's what people like ^^^ dude up there fail to realize even though it was touched on in that post:

Not everyone goes to college or picks up a useful trade. For those people, here's a minimum wage job.

If you refuse to pick up SOME sort of skill, you simply cannot complain at the wages you're presented with. At this point, you're asking the government to pick up the slack for your shitty decisions in life.

I'm a walking example. I went to to college and dropped out. I had picked up a lil skill as a car audio installer and was a pretty good salesman, so I made ends meet doing that shit for the first 6 years of my life out of high school. I eventually took a hobby/passion of mine (computers) and flipped it into an IT career that has gone from making $15.33/hr on a helpdesk to making six figures AND along the way I spent 6 years as a senior-level multi-discipline engineer (software, hardware, systems, and QA).

... and I STILL have no degree and no relevant certifications.

There's soooo many people out there that are completely self made like this that I cannot empathize with a person that didn't go to college or anything like that that still hasn't made something of themselves. The opportunity is out there to do whatever you want to do in life. That you failed to grasp that opportunity when it presents itself (usually repeatedly) is your own fault...

and for that... Minimum wage awaits.

---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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Calico
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181. "circular arguments"
In response to Reply # 180


  

          

...i can bring up people with degrees that work min wage to get things done...i can bring up people without degrees who haven't thought about earning min wage in forever...it goes both ways, but the end of the day it's SUPPOSED to be the min livable wage...agree or not, that's what it's supposed to be...i don't earn min wage, i'm good, but i know people who do because the reality is, some people all throughout history have had to make all their ends meet with JUST the minimum...i'm not saying it should be $15, but i'm not mad at people who wanna earn more...you're saying it's temporary but REALITY says for many it's NOT... but we're really talking about two different ideaologies (sp)..one where people at the bottom get paid more, and another where the bottom is a temporary thing for only younger people... neither are the reality of what's happening in the workforce today....

y'all sittin here saying "it's the bottom" while others are simply saying "the bottom should be better"...you telling me about how you learned another skill and shifted it another more profitable avenue...everybody can't do that, and saying you don't care cause it ain't you and you made it out is....sad...i'm not saying the gov needs to take care of people either, but it should definitely help....but i'll just agree to disagree

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
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Tue May-06-14 07:28 PM

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212. "RE: circular arguments"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

> but the end of the day it's SUPPOSED to be the min
>livable wage...agree or not, that's what it's supposed to
>be...

At no point in time was minimum wage EVER supposed to be the minimum livable wage.

EVER.

This much is indisputable. The Fair Labor Standard's Act was largely created to address the deplorable child labor conditions of the day. When children were working 40-60hrs a week and would have their pay constantly cut for no reason other than greed from business owners.



---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Tue May-06-14 09:20 PM

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230. "Dawg. The minimum wage applies to EVERY SINGLE BUSINESS."
In response to Reply # 181


          

Its not something you get to just wave in front of wal-mart.

Thats everything from barber shops to nail salons to that dude who fixes your car.

This ain't about Google, Apple, or some other big name you see on billboards on the way to work.

Thats what you're not getting.

i've listed alternatives, even industry specific minimum wage, and you're still acting like the MINIMUM is supposed to cover you.

Nah fam.

its not.

I'm as altrustic as I can be to the fellow man...but hell no.

Unless we're talking universal income, then a MINIMUM wage SHOULD NOT cover all your expenses if this also has to account for EVERY unskilled, uneducated, unexperienced worker in the country.

I support a wage increase...but if you're depending on minimum wage to get buy, NO AMOUNT WILL HELP YOU. $15 is just TOO much right now. Maybe later.

Thats the point.

cause dont think it'll just raise up the bottom and everyone else won't get paid more.

It'll feel alright for a short while, then you'll notice prices go up and you'll be BACK where you were.

The MINIMUM is not supposed to be a standard for your way of life.

  

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Calico
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276. "LOL...it's over"
In response to Reply # 230


  

          

let it be over...i get it, you get...move on...i know all about min wage and how it works, i also get how folks think it's supposed to work....i'm just saying that people ARE living or trying to live off what you deem a temporary unlivable wage...been doing it since forever...but you just wanna argue, and i get that too..

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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Mon May-05-14 01:21 PM

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40. "There is no way in hell a 16yr old should $120 for scoopin ice cream"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

For 8hrs a day.
Or over $10,000 after taxes/insurance for a summer.
Min wage will KILL mom and pop shops.
How many kids had lil jobs in a lil office or copy shop for a few hrs per day?
At $6.50 an hour I will throw a kid $20 a day for 3hrs of work.
Maybe do that two or three times a week for $60 and give them some experience.
But at $45 per shift, to do nothing more but sit around and learn on the job on my dime?
Naaaahhhhh, Imma need to be gettin some ROI on that $45 a day.

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
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Mon May-05-14 01:25 PM

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42. "Australia has a tiered minimum wage based on age"
In response to Reply # 40


          

Teenagers aren't paid the adult minimum wage.

There are ways to craft a minimum wage system that helps serve competing interests and recognizes the difference between teenagers and adults.

"Minimum wage shouldn't be a living wage" is a terrible starting point for the conversation, though.

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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Mon May-05-14 01:30 PM

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45. "Yall need to be more pacific then"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

Cause if parents have three kids 16-19 living in their house and make them go to work summer jobs, that is $7,000 per MONTH injected in that households budget.
Crazy!
Again, it needs to be thought out better cause there are too many loopholes/shortfalls.

I want to see the operating budget of a McDonalds or Movie Theater.

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 01:39 PM

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49. "i'm not hiring a teenager when i can get adults with experience"
In response to Reply # 45


          

b/c the labor participation rate is so low...

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/01/LFP%20Participation.jpg

teenagers don't even need those paychecks. grown adults with 3 kids do. don't have to worry about them showing up for work.

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
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53. "you might be surprised. . ."
In response to Reply # 49


          

don't have to worry about them showing up for work.
>

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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Mon May-05-14 01:49 PM

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55. "Experience scooping ice cream cones?"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

Please.
Making bags of popcorn at the cinema?
Oh ok.
Not all jobs are "worth" such a high wage.
Add benefits to that $15 per hour and it gets crazy.

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Mon May-05-14 01:51 PM

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57. "experience being professional"
In response to Reply # 55


          

  

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deejboram
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59. "Yall being extra"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

Mcdowells vs CFA

  

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Mahogany
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84. "there are plenty of adults that aren't professional"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

There's this teenage girl that works at my local Target that's super professional and polite. I know I was always professional when I was that age.

This is another post but kids not having options when it comes to pt/summer jobs is a problem. My nephew has been looking for a job for over a year now and contrary to what ndibs thinks he needs that money as do a lot of other teens.

And people wonder why these kids are off the hook. They don't have nothing to do with their spare time which is unfortunate.

BUY SOMETHING PLEASE ---> www.estherwoovintage.com

"people... please refrain from gnr'ing me. im an avid lol'er and am completely fine wit the service."

"I’m just a dreamer,
turned true to life leaner...
Born to do good so others can be believers"

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 04:06 PM

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96. "the PERCEPTION is he doesnt need that money..."
In response to Reply # 84


          

and he won't be professional.

so the result is he's getting passed over for ppl with experience.

so the idea that these min wage jobs are for teenagers only is incorrect.

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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44. "in 2014 adults are doing those jobs.."
In response to Reply # 40
Mon May-05-14 01:29 PM by ndibs

          

because that's what's available...

or they're sitting out of the workforce collecting disability on your dime or their social security early.

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/01/LFP%20Participation.jpg

or they're in the 30% of household collecting food stamps.

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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Mon May-05-14 01:33 PM

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46. "Aint my fault..."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

If you are 30+ and are trying to raise a family of four by scooping ice cream at the beach or handing out churros at the state fair, you got another thing coming.

No way in hell someone should get paid $15 per hour passing out $3 churros. There is no skill in that and I dont care if you are 45 yrs old, dont sell churros as a profession.

We need less govt in areas. This is one of them.

  

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BigReg
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Mon May-05-14 01:37 PM

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47. "LOL. America ladies and gentleman. Ain't My Fault indeed"
In response to Reply # 46
Mon May-05-14 01:39 PM by BigReg

  

          

>If you are 30+ and are trying to raise a family of four by
>scooping ice cream at the beach or handing out churros at the
>state fair, you got another thing coming.
>
>No way in hell someone should get paid $15 per hour passing
>out $3 churros. There is no skill in that and I dont care if
>you are 45 yrs old, dont sell churros as a profession.

And do what? SOMEONE has to hand out those Churros. You gonna be singing that same tune when future churros handlers get their act together and go into your field causing competition and bringing your wage down?

Also, I call shenanigans on the moms and pops, aka the human body shield for large corporations whenever someone asks them to exercise a little financial sensibility and morality.

  

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SoWhat
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Mon May-05-14 01:39 PM

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48. "they have tricked us into arguing against our self-interest."
In response to Reply # 47
Mon May-05-14 01:39 PM by SoWhat

  

          

ain't that America?

god bless it.

fuck you.

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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50. "not all of us..."
In response to Reply # 48


          

.

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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Mon May-05-14 01:57 PM

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61. "right?"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

these fool

i'm like you handling my food?

lemme pay you what you need so its handled right

im putting that in my mouth
lemme not begrudge you
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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bruce bammer
Member since Apr 01st 2014
469 posts
Mon May-05-14 02:17 PM

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69. "yep."
In response to Reply # 48


          

---
IN THE FLESH

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35264 posts
Wed May-07-14 09:26 PM

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292. "been saying it for years. "
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

Pro-business intersts give nary a fuck about anybody

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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54. "It is all about planning."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          


>And do what? SOMEONE has to hand out those Churros. You
>gonna be singing that same tune when future churros handlers
>get their act together and go into your field causing
>competition and bringing your wage down?
>
>Also, I call shenanigans on the moms and pops, aka the human
>body shield for large corporations whenever someone asks them
>to exercise a little financial sensibility and morality.


If the person was svelte enough to be my comp they wouldnt be selling churros.
If anything, they would be making the churros and handing them out to others to peddle.
When we as a country have a great number of peoe with advanced degrees who are highly specialised in any industry selling churros to support their fam, we lost.

Did yall have Hire-A-Youth where yall grew up?
That program got phased out in my area cause shrinking tax breaks and rising min wage.

  

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BigReg
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62. "This is already happening though"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          


>When we as a country have a great number of peoe with advanced
>degrees who are highly specialised in any industry selling
>churros to support their fam, we lost.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/27/magazine/changing-rules-for-success.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Fact of the matter is because of the 'new normal' economy there will be millions of people stuck at the minimum wage line. Considering I am not about to deliver gallons of milk at 4 in the morning, going to hop behind the counter and flip burgers at 1am, or manually measure myself for a suit, we need to recognize this.

As far as the youth program, I never heard of it. But considering what I typed up above, i can't be made that 15 year old Reggie isn't going to be able to get that McDonald's job if a single mother needs it too.

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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Mon May-05-14 02:08 PM

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67. "RE: This is exactly why I've diversified my revenue streams"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

But here is a HAY replacement

http://m.utsandiego.com/news/2014/Mar/05/workforce-partnership-jobs-employment-teenage/

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 03:37 PM

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82. "right this isn't 1960, he should have to go into debt 100k for college"
In response to Reply # 40


          

using tax payers money.

  

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BigJazz
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52. "Johns Hopkins workers were striking a couple weeks ago tryin to get"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

$15 for 15.

there are people that've been working there over 15 years that still don't make $15/hr.

this lady on the radio was one of them. i think she was around $11...

  

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Dstl1
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Mon May-05-14 02:00 PM

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63. "My God (c)CL Smooth"
In response to Reply # 52


          

.

  

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SammyJankis
Member since Jan 29th 2003
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Mon May-05-14 01:54 PM

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60. "If the minium wage gets raised to $15..."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon May-05-14 01:59 PM by SammyJankis

  

          

then shouldn't all wages get raised? For ex. Entry level white collar work like retail bankers make at most $10 - $12 an hour to start. Without experience its like $8-$9 especially if you're a teller or a sales rep. So if you're a college grad just getting out in the field and pick a entry level white collar job making $9 w/ benefits and someone that assembles your big mac is making $15, then what up with that?

I'm not saying that the minimum wage should not be increased but this whole $15 debate is ridiculous. I think a even $10 is good.

___

And who are you; the proud lord said, that I must bow so low?

www.twitter.com/JayTeeDee

www.juwandickerson.com

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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65. "We pay SAP gurus with 10yrs experience 15 times min wage"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

To make us a $400k product
They are one cog in the wheel
If all wages were increased proportionally to this $15 min wage,
Businesses would have hell to pay.

  

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Below The Mason Dixon
Member since Oct 11th 2011
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Mon May-05-14 02:17 PM

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70. "But they would still make a profit. "
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

These CEO's ain't starving.

"Give a woman the moon, bitch will want another moon to go with it"

(C) My Nigga Randall

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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73. "Why make such broad stroked conjectures?"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

Do you know the profit margin for each product we sale?

And CEOs are under TREMENDOUS stress at all times.
I doubt many are built for that, and if they are, they lack the contacts to pull off a $100million deal.

Much of a ceo's work is their Rolodex.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 03:42 PM

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83. "This is why you need to focus this morality to BUSINESS, not Govt"
In response to Reply # 70


          

You're asking INTERNALLY for businesses to pay its people more...people who ARENT making minimum wage by and large.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 04:08 PM

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98. "ur focused on CEO pay as if this has ANYTHING to do with min wage"
In response to Reply # 70


          

Stop playing games here though...

$15...per hour...for what?

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Mon May-05-14 07:21 PM

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125. "they ain't trying to listen"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

Shit, my first corporate IT gig on a helpdesk was $15/hr and I had to know what the fuck I was doing. Burger flipper want's $15/hr? cool, helpdesk niggas need to get $22/hr minimum and cats in my position (senior security engineer) needs to -start- at $180K.

---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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Below The Mason Dixon
Member since Oct 11th 2011
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66. "^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

"Give a woman the moon, bitch will want another moon to go with it"

(C) My Nigga Randall

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Mon May-05-14 02:01 PM

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64. "$15 in NYC and LA maybe..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

but in Ohio? Nah... that won't work.

I definitely think the minimum wage should increase but cmon.. that leap is a little drastic.

  

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MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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72. "it's some strange arguments in here"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

minimum wage (should) = livable wage

it's not easy to quantify worth based on amount of effort or skill

skilled workers are underpaid...

It's not going to kill mom and pops...mom and pops don't operate by the same rules and also shouldn't be expected to...what's killing mom and pops is that these businesses can undermine them with that cheap labor we are bitching to make less cheap...

someone mentioned that min wage can be scaled by age and probably also by type of business and should be

the reason fast food workers should be able to make more is bc they rely on cheap labor to pad certain pockets...there will always be cheap labor available but large businesses won't be able exploit this fact without paying livable wages if we don't let them

if the market truly deserves to exist as it does...those at the top will still enjoy huge profits and the extra costs won't be transferred to the customers (too much)

there is no entity that protects workers from being exploited besides the govt and they typically do a shitty job

whether or not that is a good number is

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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75. "you been killing it all day, fam"
In response to Reply # 72


          

  

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MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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76. "it's cognitive dissonance everywhere"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

and it fucks me up

like the same reason we justify paying nba players so much money is the same reason we should pay unskilled workers more

niggas is acting like we about to break systems when really...we are requesting fairer profit-sharing

if the profits can't be shared...then the industry needs to be fucking changed...simple as that

if fast food fails...i assure you there will be a replacement next week...

it's like we learned nothing from these recessions, depressions, and bubbles popping and don't even bother trying sometimes

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 03:13 PM

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77. "Why should a wage FLOOR equate a living standard? "
In response to Reply # 72


          

The GOAL is to allow the government to ensure that you get paid SOMETHING for your effort.

If you want to introduce industry specific rules that say "fast food must pay XYZ amount" then be my guest, but we're talking about a FLOOR. As in something you MUST make at all levels.

I don't see why $15 should be that level for ALL aspects of work at any level across any industry.

Value and worth DOES matter and ya'll got a lot of nerve trying to be super progressive and lying to yourself that some jobs aren't more valuable than others.

And the NBA pays people based on marketing dollars and VALUE. There is no NBA without players...and they're essentially skilled workers. Keep playing as if that has ANYTHING to do with MINIMUM wage though.

  

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MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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90. "this is stupid...it should because IT CAN"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

>The GOAL is to allow the government to ensure that you get
>paid SOMETHING for your effort.

that's a goal...but if more can be achieved and enforced why the fuck not?

>If you want to introduce industry specific rules that say
>"fast food must pay XYZ amount" then be my guest, but we're
>talking about a FLOOR. As in something you MUST make at all
>levels.

...blank stare...

>I don't see why $15 should be that level for ALL aspects of
>work at any level across any industry.
>
>Value and worth DOES matter and ya'll got a lot of nerve
>trying to be super progressive and lying to yourself that some
>jobs aren't more valuable than others.
>

valuable to who?

>And the NBA pays people based on marketing dollars and VALUE.
>There is no NBA without players...and they're essentially
>skilled workers. Keep playing as if that has ANYTHING to do
>with MINIMUM wage though.


aplly this reasoning to fast food...

there is no fast food without cheap labor

this is exactly what cognitive dissonance is

wtf yo

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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94. "Whats your argument against paying fastfood workers $100/hour? "
In response to Reply # 90


          

Cause I know you have one.

  

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MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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105. "im done treating you as a reasonable person"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

u call me out and say i'm not addressing your points even though my initial post does and yet you haven't actually countered anything i've said with anything that makes since besides empty rhetoric

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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113. "You compared NBA players to jobs 16 year olds can do, tho"
In response to Reply # 105


          

So who is making the exaggerated comparisons?

I'm SORRY you can't afford rent doing the BARE MINIMUM...but thats not the government's fault no matter how much you want to spin it.

I SUPPORT WAGE INCREASES...but starting that floor at $15 makes NO SENSE to me at this point in time.

  

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ansomble
Member since Nov 30th 2005
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208. "Um, YOU brought the NBA into the discussion. The fuck..."
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

He countered that banal talking point with a very valid allegorical comparison.

☺☻

"i'm doing good, can i put my face in your buttcrack?" (c) P.Inf

"frankly, I think it's foolish to have a cat or a baby, but whatever" (c) veritas

@kingofthings

  

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Mynoriti
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110. ""next we'll be marrying our dogs""
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

  

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Mynoriti
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80. "this"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

>It's not going to kill mom and pops...mom and pops don't
>operate by the same rules and also shouldn't be expected
>to...what's killing mom and pops is that these businesses can
>undermine them with that cheap labor we are bitching to make
>less cheap...

  

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rambunctious
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74. "so we can add "poor people" to the list of things (some) okps hate."
In response to Reply # 0


          


twitter:geeekaygeee

  

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Mynoriti
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78. "people wont admit they just want/need someone to look down on"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

that's what really drives most of the arguments against this. even what may be legit arguments against this are mostly just used to mask people's sense of feeling they are better than some retail worker.

"living wage" should be a no-brainer to anyone who isn't an entitled shit. but people get low-key mad if they see Victor from pollo loco driving a nice car, because you somehow feel there's no way he deserves that. it's human nature i guess.

it's why people get all irate when they see someone with food stamps and an iphone. knowing nothing about that person or their situation, you're like "i'm paying for that!" but when Mitt Romney gets a 100k tax credit for a dancing horse, it's like "hey good for him! fuck the IRS!"

people are shit.


  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 03:36 PM

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81. "i made this point earlier. some people are clearly dumb too..."
In response to Reply # 78
Mon May-05-14 03:42 PM by ndibs

          

they think its better for the government to tax us to death to give a kid $60,000 in loans he'll never repay (IBR with loan forgiveness in 25 years is here, defaulting is a reality for many right now) than pay that kid $15/hr to scoop ice cream. better to let the 55 year old who got the degree and did everything right look at the labor market and sign up and collect 40k in social security disability and other benefits because they can't make a living working these $7.50-$10 hour jobs.

As if we don't pay for that. People need to get over themselves. You can vote to pay for these people to eat on your dime (food stamps, welfare, section 8) or you can vote for their employers to pay for them to eat.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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89. "Why change mini wage instead of telling companies how to spend $$$?"
In response to Reply # 81


          

Cause thats what it sounds like you're doing.

Cause minimum wage should be used as a protection against ULTIMATE exploitation, not as a way of ensuring your well-being.

There are OTHER WAYS to protect employee compensation.

  

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MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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92. "which ways are those?"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

if the end result is the same...why is it more harmful for the govt to do it?

who else has the power to enforce these types of things?

u all over the place

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 04:12 PM

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102. "Listed in the OP. Yall are exploiting something beyond its intention"
In response to Reply # 92


          

- universal income
- industry specific minimum wage
- age specific minimum wage
- SMALLER minimum wage increases
- increased corporate taxes
- more rules for unionization



MINIMUM WAGE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE USED FOR A LIVING WAGE.


radical socialists:

- forcing companies to peg C-level pay to minimum wage payment

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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Mon May-05-14 04:17 PM

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104. "only thing being exploited are the people"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

working and not getting paid properly
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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114. "The ARE being paid. You just dont like that they not making career money"
In response to Reply # 104


          

Thats really what this amounts to.

Minimum wage ain't supposed to be there for you to raise a family on.

Lets stop playing that game.

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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192. "not properly "
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

>Thats really what this amounts to.
>
>Minimum wage ain't supposed to be there for you to raise a
>family on.
>
>Lets stop playing that game.

you stop playing that game
it is work
work TO BE RESPECTED
i dont play that class crap

you SHOW respect by paying a PROPER and DECENT wage
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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Tue May-06-14 09:09 PM

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225. "WalMart door greeter shouldnt be disrespected"
In response to Reply # 192


  

          

>it is work
>work TO BE RESPECTED
>i dont play that class crap

but let's not act as if you're passing out churros, making snow cones or mark receipts with a hi-liter at costco that your job is as "respectable" as a police office, low income primary care doc or a third grade teacher.

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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256. "I'm not "acting""
In response to Reply # 225


  

          

It IS as respectable

I you are confusing the current abuses of the workplaces where people especially bosses want you to value your job to extremes

Many white collar workers now have work blackberries
Now THAT us ridiculous unless you are a doctor or nurse this 24/7 contact isn't fucking value
PAY people THAT is value
And a decent wage only and very simply DECENT for WORK done
YES
I refuse to look down and be disrespectful of that
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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268. "you equated door greeters to ibankers and doctors"
In response to Reply # 256


          

I know you're desperate to preserve this notion that humanity matters and all that...but we're takling about minimum wage.

putting on a shirt every day and waving at people doesn't entitle you to a cushy life where you also have ENOUGH of a roof or food over your head.

minimum wage is there to help put some money in your pocket...not to ensure you never go without 3 meals a day.

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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305. "$15 an hour isn't a cushy life"
In response to Reply # 268


  

          

Get it straight
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Tue May-06-14 09:15 PM

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229. "You're talking class warfare, but wont address MINIMUM wage"
In response to Reply # 192


          

Cause AGAIN, most people DO NOT make minimum wage.

So whats your excuse there?

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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254. "I've been addressing it"
In response to Reply # 229


  

          

They deserve it.
They WORK for it.
I don't have this ethical or moral issue you have with class.
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Wed May-07-14 09:24 AM

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263. "you keep using class in this ivory tower wannabe academic level"
In response to Reply # 254


          

If you're depending on minimum wage, class is the LAST thing on your plate.

Cause if thats all you can make, then being worried about the next man is the least of your problems.

Again...lets put this in perspective. Minimum wage DOES account for the fact you're doing work that lacks a lot of value OR is inherently a crappy job.

We DO need to talk about value here...and ya'll dona wanna be mean about it, so you try and write off any dissension as some right wing hate.

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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267. "the people who are arguing against"
In response to Reply # 263


  

          

like YOU

are the ones extraordinarily concerned with status

those folks who WORK
ARE concerned with obtaining a decent wage

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Wed May-07-14 10:19 AM

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270. "If you want a decent wage, dont work for the bare minimum"
In response to Reply # 267


          

Its that simple.

We can talk all day about what you think is "moral" and what not, but unless you define "decent" and how that money should be spread, then you're not helping beyond sheer fantasy land conjecture.

How much is enough FEDERALLY?

From Mississippi to New York and California?

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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289. "You find them better jobs"
In response to Reply # 270


  

          

You seem to think it's that simple

And I don't mean showing anyone the unemployment section.

Come back to us with new jobs for all of those people with minimum wage jobs
Hired permanent positions at a better wage

We'll wait
Since you think it's so damn simple
You got this shit figured out

Fuckin moron
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
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Wed May-07-14 09:43 PM

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297. "I'll throw you a few"
In response to Reply # 289


  

          

http://www.thesmartcrowd.com/workers/job-opportunities/country/united-states-of-america/#jobs-list

https://www.leapforceathome.com/qrp/public/home

http://www.appen.com/company/opportunities/

I've worked for two of these while I was unemployed. The pay is typically $13.50/hr and you work from home, eliminating transportation costs for work.

Two of them cap your hours to 20 a week. Leapforce allows you to work 40hrs a week as long as the quality of your work is high.

There's others too. There's entire online communities devoted to work-at-home jobs that pay better than minimum.


---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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301. "I specifically said"
In response to Reply # 297


  

          

Not to post
But to GET them the job

Then you can get back to us
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
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Thu May-08-14 01:15 AM

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303. "the mere fact that there are jobs available is enough"
In response to Reply # 301


  

          

if you don't look, you don't find.
if you don't find, you don't apply.
if you don't apply, you don't get.
If you don't get, you welcome people to McDonalds and take their order.

---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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304. "No it's not"
In response to Reply # 303


  

          

If it was they would have those jobs
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
25755 posts
Thu May-08-14 08:32 AM

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307. "what about those that dont WANT to work?"
In response to Reply # 304


  

          

my sister is 40
barely finished high school
made $25 / hr on a six week assignment back in 1999
and hasnt worked since because she doesnt want to make less than $25 / hr now

all her jobs have always been around minimum working in retail at like
Target
Ross
TJ Maxx
shit like that
but once she got that $25 temp assignment
she aint wanna go back down

there is work
ppl just dont wanna do it
i would work minimum if i HAADDDD to
but i know my skillset makes some folks a LOT of money so im not gonna work for less than what i make now unless i REALLY had to
honestly, i make less in houston than i did in san diego but in houston they gave me bonus/profit sharing so in the end i actually make more than i did in cali because we hittin them EBIT every FY

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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85. "You sound more insecure though. Why does low effort work need $15?"
In response to Reply # 78


          

I'm gonna need you to explain that to me.

Cause MOST PEOPLE don't even make minimum wage.

So you're probably realistically approaching $20 an hour for starting jobs for your average person.

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 03:48 PM

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86. "if the minimum wage kept pace with inflation it would be at $21/hr"
In response to Reply # 85


          

...so that's not that far out there. they manage it in europe.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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95. "This only assumes that theres a meaningful place to pin it. "
In response to Reply # 86


          

If you started with what minimum wage WAS and tracked to where it should be, then yeah...but you know thats not how that works.

its all a guessing game cause just because inflation increases, it doesn't mean that what was used to pin it in one location will be where you pin it in the future.

It could be true that the initial peg was not where it should have been...especially since its so arbitrary.

  

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Mynoriti
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Mon May-05-14 04:23 PM

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108. ""low effort work" see what i mean?"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

and, cool deflection, bro

>I'm gonna need you to explain that to me.

and I'm gonna need you to not pretend that hasn't already been explained to you ad nauseam in this post

have fun with your lil fox & friends rants tho.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 05:05 PM

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116. "So its "fox and friends" to ignore that NOT ALL JOBS ARE EQUAL?"
In response to Reply # 108


          

Word?

So living on the BARE MINIMUM the government says you should get entitles you to just CRUISING in life?

Cause last I checked VERY FEW PEOPLE ACTUALLY LIVE ON MINIMUM WAGE

YOU KNOW THIS...right?

Ya'll stay throwing out this "its just koch brothers" shit without addressing the flaw in artificially raising the floor (something i don't disagree with) to something like 2-3x where it is now.

Low effort, low skill, low requirement work HAS value in that it needs to be done, but it is NOT worthy of these sorts of wages you're proposing.

Either you don't understand wage floors, or you think everyone is entitled to what you enjoy.

  

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Mynoriti
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120. "please show me where i said all jobs are equal"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

or anything about koch brothers...

or better yet, don't and keep replying to a bunch straw man shit you want to answer in all caps to like you're actually saying something

i'll wait...

  

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sixteenstone
Member since Sep 22nd 2002
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Mon May-05-14 11:50 PM

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136. "yup"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

Remember Novemthree's Courage...
visit on the web:www.16stonevintage.com
like on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/16stonevintage
follow on instagram: http://instagram.com/sixteenstone http://instagram.com/vintageblkmags/

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 03:50 PM

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87. "working people are going to eat and have roofs over their heads. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

ya'll would really rather it come out of your tax dollars than from the businesses that employ them? At this point we have 30% of households on food stamps. When is enough enough?

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 03:59 PM

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91. "OR people should understand the govt isn't responsible for that"
In response to Reply # 87


          

NOT EVERYONE WILL AFFORD EVERYTHING.

You realize that right?

Why do people keep expecting minimum wage to cover ALL aspects of your life?

I DO NOT understand this line of thinking.

Like...at all.

  

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MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Mon May-05-14 04:01 PM

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93. "it's clear you don't understand a lot and that's ok"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 04:07 PM

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97. "As a leftie, its frustrating to see the wall you face if you dissent"
In response to Reply # 93


          

And your detraction is proof of that.

You can't even address what I'm saying here.

You KNOW not everyone can get "saved"...right?

You can't just ALWAYS account for the fact people will not make enough to support themselves.

It SOUNDS nice to say "people who work 40 hrs a week should be able to XYZ..." but that shit is just unrealistic.

You can't just raise wages and expect those costs to go NOWHERE.

  

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BigReg
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99. "Current minimum wage can't even cover rent, LOL"
In response to Reply # 91
Mon May-05-14 04:09 PM by BigReg

  

          

>Why do people keep expecting minimum wage to cover ALL aspects
>of your life?

You think paying someone 15 bucks an hour is going to have em whipping in the benz, popping bottles at the club?

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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100. "It was NEVER intended to. Adults gotta figure that out. "
In response to Reply # 99


          

Minimum wage is NOT what people think it is.

A wage floor IS NOT a goddamn life raft.

  

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BigReg
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101. "So whats the solution. A large amount of jobs will strictly be minimum ..."
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

for the near future.

Those same employees will have no chance of going on a management track, etc because of the current recession.

Keeping in mind that minimum wage hasn't kept with inflation, so your wage floor has gotten L-O-W.


  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 04:15 PM

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103. "You don't address those problems by increasing the floor by 2x the rate."
In response to Reply # 101


          

Cause minimum wage is NOT what you think it is.

Its a FLOOR. Not a damn window, a set of stairs, or even an attic.

As i've said before, people need to focus on alternatives cause this just leads to MORE price increases and fewer people being unemployed.

Companies WILL pass those costs on and we're back at square one.

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 04:19 PM

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106. "not if all wages go up..."
In response to Reply # 103


          

business owners including myself will tell you, it would be a better economic environment if people made more so they could buy more stuff and spend more money.

Half my income comes from overseas. They have more money.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 05:07 PM

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117. "Wages go up, employees get more expensive, and PRICES go up"
In response to Reply # 106


          

Then what?

Back.

At.

Square.

One.

Just up and up and up.

That money doesn't just come from nothing.

  

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BigReg
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121. "It does though"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrogowsky/2013/04/26/apples-50-billion-buyback-wont-dent-its-warchest/

Etc.

Lets not like all the equity in the US economy isn't out there or hoarde d by a few.

You keep on dodging the CEO question, but ultimately there IS cash in the system to support increasing minimum wage...cash just isn't as liquid as it was even 20 years ago.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 06:24 PM

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122. "CEO remarks don't address MINIMUM wage, not skilled labor"
In response to Reply # 121


          

How much should popcorn servers at movie theaters make fam?

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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Tue May-06-14 04:19 AM

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145. "They not understanding math"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

If a popcorn scooper scopps 3 bags every 2 mins, they can scoop 90 bags per hour.
each bag retails $7 that is $630 per hour this employee is "generating".
but there are VASSST overheads in place that enables the employee to "generate" $630 per hour.
the rental of the movie from the film company
renting that HUGE theater space
paying for AC/HEAT in such a huge space
paying for ELECTRICITY in general in that space
all that DEAD TIME of not selling popcorn because there are lulls in theater concessions
marketing budgets
there is just a whole host of things that goes into that employee being able to "generate" those type of funds.

i'm a consultant that has to pay $10,000 per year for my software license to earn my rate.
if I get 1,800 billable hours per year, that is $6 of my rate is in software alone before i even buy a laptop, turn it on, pay for internet, pay for data that needs to be analysed, pay for a roof over my head so i can have a workspace. even if i made $100 per hour, 6% of my hourly rate is on a simple piece of software alone.

  

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BigReg
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172. "Thanks for proving my point! LOL"
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

>If a popcorn scooper scopps 3 bags every 2 mins, they can
>scoop 90 bags per hour.
>each bag retails $7 that is $630 per hour this employee is
>"generating".

So now he's generating $623 an hour, a mere .4% difference. If that's going to break your business, your business model sucked.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Tue May-06-14 09:13 PM

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228. "I hate to defend corporations, but if youre public your margins are THIN"
In response to Reply # 172
Tue May-06-14 09:13 PM by GameTheory

          

MOST corporations ain't ballin' like that.

Considering what it takes to maintain most of them, especially theaters in a realm where EVERYONE is losing money...they ain't as fat as you making it out to be.

A lot of these places are on the verge of sheer disaster.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Tue May-06-14 11:29 AM

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168. "you sell vintage clothing... "
In response to Reply # 106


          

I'm pretty sure it's stuff that isn't available overseas or still cheaper than buying locally.



  

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GirlChild
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88. "i've never made $15 and hr"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i've never lived off minimum wage and i still couldn't afford to live alone.

$15 ain't shit. that can barely pay the bills.

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
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Mon May-05-14 09:11 PM

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133. "qualify it though"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

Where do you live? 'Cause I know plenty of places where $15/hr is enough for a single person without kids to live decently.


---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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GirlChild
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Mon May-05-14 11:27 PM

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135. "i've lived in several cities and it still wouldn't be enough"
In response to Reply # 133
Mon May-05-14 11:28 PM by GirlChild

  

          

i've lived in bmore, nyc, la, sd, houston...$15 an hr ain't paying shit.
that's roughly what? 30K a year? that's barely living, unless you live in some small ass town in the middle of nowhere.

and that $15/hr doesn't include insurance, dental, life, 401k. still not enough, esp if you've got a family.

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
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Tue May-06-14 12:57 AM

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140. "RE: i've lived in several cities and it still wouldn't be enough"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

>i've lived in bmore, nyc, la, sd, houston...$15 an hr ain't
>paying shit.

$15/hr aint doin shit in NYC or LA; that's fuckin laughable.

Houston or bmore??? You prolly did something wrong.

I lived outside of Detroit on $15.33/hr by myself. Apartment, car, 3 computers in the crib plus two laptops, my recording rig (which at the time consisted of quite a bit of shit), kept clothes on my back and food in the fridge. Had entertainment money and alladat.

I mean... in all honesty, if you can't do it in this day and age on $15/hr anywhere EXCEPT Mia, NYC, LA, or the Bay Area (fuck it... all of California), something is seriously wrong with your budgeting skills or your expectations are entirely too high for your income.

---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79621 posts
Tue May-06-14 11:40 AM

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170. "true.. I made $14 an hour in Philly and did alright... "
In response to Reply # 140


          

I wasn't stacking paper but I was able to live off of it while putting a little money away every month.

  

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GirlChild
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174. "nope not true"
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

you also don't factor in things like student loans, etc.
esp if you don't have insurance. $15/hr ain't much.

living off 30k is not a lot of money

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
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184. "still not feelin it"
In response to Reply # 174


  

          

Guess I was "lucky" or something 'cause my employer offered insurance (which I gladly took).

In fact... I had a job making $7.50/hr two years prior to that helpdesk gig that offered insurance, the gig prior to that at $7.50/hr I had insurance... And now that I think about it, it's been a pretty rare moment that I DIDN'T have insurance. (my first car audio job, the stints I did at McDonalds, Arby's, Taco Bell, a video rental spot, and an arcade didn't offer it).

I had insurance when I worked for nearly every pre-corporate job I've ever had. All but one car audio job had insurance, my musical instrument sales jobs had insurance, big box electronics company had insurance... I kept insurance in low paying jobs.

I'll give you the loans thing, but even still you can have your payment lowered to fit your budget (I've had to do it myself so don't tell me it can't be done).

I'm still not convinced.
---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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Mahogany
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195. "yea I've definitely lived off of that here "
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

I think people just see 30k and get freaked out, but there are a good amount of people living off of that. It just depends on where you live. You could definitely do it here and in bmore tho

>>i've lived in bmore, nyc, la, sd, houston...$15 an hr ain't
>>paying shit.
>
>$15/hr aint doin shit in NYC or LA; that's fuckin laughable.
>
>Houston or bmore??? You prolly did something wrong.
>
>I lived outside of Detroit on $15.33/hr by myself. Apartment,
>car, 3 computers in the crib plus two laptops, my recording
>rig (which at the time consisted of quite a bit of shit), kept
>clothes on my back and food in the fridge. Had entertainment
>money and alladat.
>
>I mean... in all honesty, if you can't do it in this day and
>age on $15/hr anywhere EXCEPT Mia, NYC, LA, or the Bay Area
>(fuck it... all of California), something is seriously wrong
>with your budgeting skills or your expectations are entirely
>too high for your income.
>
>---------------------------
>
>I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.
>
>
>R.I.P. Disco D

BUY SOMETHING PLEASE ---> www.estherwoovintage.com

"people... please refrain from gnr'ing me. im an avid lol'er and am completely fine wit the service."

"I’m just a dreamer,
turned true to life leaner...
Born to do good so others can be believers"

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
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Tue May-06-14 10:10 PM

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235. "I know, but this is OKP... the voice of reason is meaningless here."
In response to Reply # 195


  

          

To be 100% honest, if people lowered their expectations of what they SHOULD be able to do and instead live within their means, more people would be able to see that a single person making $30K ain't really struggling.

---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Tue May-06-14 08:33 AM

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153. "Well stop being qualified for minimum wage work like 95% of people?"
In response to Reply # 135


          

Again.

This is a wage FLOOR.

Not a living standard we're talking about.

  

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GirlChild
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173. "lol, i'm more than qualified for minimum wage work"
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

however that doesn't mean there are jobs that are paying fair wages

adjunct teaching jobs pay $5000 per class/ per semester. who can live off that?

museums don't pay shit.

teachers are being laid off left and right.

ya'll make it sound like it's just so damn easy.

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
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186. "if the field you've chosen doesn't pay worth a damn..."
In response to Reply # 173


  

          

Then either move to an area where it pays or do something else.

A degree, even a teaching degree, can open doors for other fields. There are companies that don't even give a shit what you got your degree in, just so long as you have one. One of my sisters ended up as a personal banker though she has a bachelors in AfAm Studies. The bank she ended up at only cared that she had a bachelors, not what it was in (this was one of the major banks in this country)


---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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Tue May-06-14 04:48 PM

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190. "so we should have no artists art teachers or museums?"
In response to Reply # 186


          

because the work they do isn't paid well so nobody should do it?

if she moves on, what about the person that replaces her?

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
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Tue May-06-14 05:11 PM

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201. "until this country places a higher value on education..."
In response to Reply # 190


  

          

... teachers will always get shit pay for what they do. Personally, I'd like to see K-12 teachers making $75-80K to start because their role in society is so crucial.


---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Tue May-06-14 09:11 PM

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227. "This sort of attitude is why STEM people are seen as assholes"
In response to Reply # 190


          

See, when we tell you to get FUNCTIONAL degrees, you all stand there and moan about "what about the arts!" then when you wanna fill up space online in message boards and forums about "how messed up the country is" that you can't be employed with your lack of skills and esoteric academic field of study then its somehow OUR fault.

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
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Tue May-06-14 10:41 PM

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243. "Exactly"
In response to Reply # 227


  

          

That cat that has a degree in Ancient Babylonian Architecture that's flippin burgers really didn't think about his future.

It's cool to pursue something you have a passion for as long as you're realistic about the lifestyle that passion will afford you.

---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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GirlChild
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Wed May-07-14 12:53 AM

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250. "Since when is adjunct limited to the arts?"
In response to Reply # 186


  

          

You keep reaching but ain't really listening.

  

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lovelyone80
Member since Dec 15th 2004
50065 posts
Tue May-06-14 08:58 AM

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158. "i lived off that my first job in baltimore and "
In response to Reply # 88


          

i had a place, $600 and a car $500 (my car plus full coverage).

it was a struggle. eventually the car had to go but still trying to eat, go to school, and pay bills was taxing on a $30k salary. i could do it but i was severely limited in what i could do.

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
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Tue May-06-14 05:33 PM

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206. "The difference between you and me on 30K is..."
In response to Reply # 158


  

          

I owned my car free and clear (meaning I could settle for "yo fault" insurance)
I wasn't in school.
My apartment included electricity and water.

My only bills were phone, cable/internet (x2 cause I also paid for a secondary dial-up line as a backup), car insurance (cheap), and clothes. Rent was $525 (should have been more but I had already been in the complex for a few years).

Thing is... before I got that job I was making $9.50/hr in the same apartment with the same expenses. Shit was kinda tight then, but I made due. Rent was late only twice because I decided to put some recording equipment on hold.

Most definitely not ballin on any level, but I was aiight.
---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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lovelyone80
Member since Dec 15th 2004
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Wed May-07-14 02:42 PM

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281. "the opportunity to own my car free and clear "
In response to Reply # 206


          

was taken from me by some thieves, so I had to buy a new one...and then after that I ended up moving in my own spot(broke up with my ex), so i'm literally paying $1100 for those two bills. my twice a month checks were like $950 after taxes.

include phone, food, school expenses (including gas to drive to and from school and work), and credit cards (things i needed to have) and i might have $100 at the end of the month left over...

like I don't think it's impossible, but i could NOT do that in NYC at all where the lowest rent I have seen is $900 for a studio.

I can go back to Baltimore now and find a nicer bigger place for less than what I pay now in NYC.

I do think minimum/living wage should be determined by the states tho...and it should be raised because $8/hr in nyc isn't the same as in Baltimore. And trust i worked a $15/hr job in NYC (part time, and it required a masters degree), and i still qualified for benefits because it was not enough for me to live on. and i was renting a cheap ass room. no car.

  

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GirlChild
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Wed May-07-14 12:57 AM

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251. "Our rent at that last spot was $1200/month"
In response to Reply # 158


  

          

Prior to tthat it was $700 in park heights. Were mad murders where happening on our block. At least in Charles village I could walk to school. We had one car so it was real hard coordinating that.

  

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unfukwitable
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109. "Because they need enough resources to live decently"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

So their employers might as well pay it instead of the rest of us subsidizing big business.

======================================
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tade/

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Mon May-05-14 05:09 PM

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118. "Again, youre repeating the fatal FLAW of minimum wage = living wage"
In response to Reply # 109


          

This.

Is.

Not.

The.

Purpose.

Minimum wage IS NOT made for you to "live comfortably" on.

Its to ensure a FLOOR whereby NO ONE can violate your right to be compensated for hourly work you do.

  

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unfukwitable
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165. "nah, you're the one not getting it "
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

If you spend all your time working for Corporation X. I johnny taxpayer should not have to subsidize your life.


======================================
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tade/

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Tue May-06-14 09:10 PM

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226. "So why are you working for minimum wage? Thats the problem."
In response to Reply # 165


          

Thats not the government's fault, thats the company's fault.

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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Wed May-07-14 07:53 AM

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258. "Thise are the jobs most available and in demand"
In response to Reply # 226


  

          

Respect that and understand those people deserve a decent wage
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Wed May-07-14 10:23 AM

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274. "Sure. They're not slaves. Now define "decent""
In response to Reply # 258


          

Cause "Decent" seems to you to represent money to hit th mall with...not pay for the bare essentials so you don't die on the street.

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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302. "$15 an hour to start"
In response to Reply # 274


  

          

Get with the damn program


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28846 posts
Mon May-05-14 04:42 PM

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112. "Why are you a meat peeper?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Stop hating on the next man trying to eat. Wages should increase to $15 an hour. Australia's minimum is over $15 an hour. Let that sink in.

Imagine someone coming to your job saying you don't need to earn what you're earning. FOH hating on an increased minimum wage. That money goes back into the economy anyway. That's more jobs and less unemployment.

Like somone mentioned earlier, this is just people trying to look down on someone. This is the Dan Patrick crowd lamenting the uppity n words "making a mockery of education" by turning pro early because they want to keep them below their status. They want "these kids" to "earn" the "right" to play in the NBA and "stop making a mockery of the education system".

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 05:11 PM

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119. "WTF? Australia is a WAY more expensive country to live in w/ weaker mone..."
In response to Reply # 112


          

The aussies have WAY weaker currency and a more expensive economy to stay afloat in.

At least be freaking consistent.

AND they have higher taxes.

This just is getting said in here.

You can't just "increase wages" and expect that money to come from no where.

  

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shockzilla
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143. "1 Australian Dollar equals 0.93 US Dollar"
In response to Reply # 119
Tue May-06-14 02:51 AM by shockzilla

          

and the australian standard of living is reportedly better than that of the states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

so

<shrug>

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Tue May-06-14 08:30 AM

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152. "The US dollar goes farther. Australia is expensive as hell"
In response to Reply # 143


          

Do your research.

People ain't "eating" out there like that.

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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Tue May-06-14 09:56 AM

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166. "US is expensive. 1/2 my $ goes to student loans/retirement/healthcare"
In response to Reply # 152


          

Lol at money going further here...

  

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shockzilla
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191. "Do my research?"
In response to Reply # 152
Tue May-06-14 04:53 PM by shockzilla

          

I am Australian, genius.

now.

look at this list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where-to-be-born_Index#2013_rankings

Where are Australia and the U.S. ranked?

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue May-06-14 10:00 PM

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234. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 191


  

          

>I am Australian, genius.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Tue May-06-14 05:01 PM

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198. "Exchange rate isn't what you should be looking at. Look at PPP"
In response to Reply # 143


          

Purchasing Power Parity. Which basically tells you how much stuff can $1US buy in another country. By this measure Australia is way more expensive than the US.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/PA.NUS.PPPC.RF

To buy $1 US dollar worth of goods and services in Australia you will need $1.5 US dollars

_______________________________________

  

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shockzilla
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202. "I'm not disputing this, by the way."
In response to Reply # 198


          

Australia is more expensive - but having a higher minimum wage is one of the reasons why it's reportedly a better place to live.

Full disclosure: I haven't lived there for years, so..

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Mon May-05-14 05:04 PM

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115. "make my burgers, faggot "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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PIMPINCHICAGO
Member since Mar 11th 2003
7441 posts
Mon May-05-14 07:49 PM

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126. "$15 Minimum Wage helps small businesses"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

with fast food, if you have a small business burger shop and have a $8-$10 burger that is fresh made and even healthy options in addition...

and you are getting killed by McDonalds and Burger Kings...and they have to raise their wages to $15/hr...

...most people say, but but but that means we pay more for a burger at Mc D's and BK...

...well duh, but that means the small business burger spot can compete with prices and customer service now that the big boys have to charge the going rate to pay their employees correctly...

Mom and Pop grocers were phased out by Walmarts and etc because they can lowball employees on some $7 a hour + welfare BS....


but now Walmart Prices rise so fucking what...you have more money all around to buy shit when people are paid what they should be. Plus you still have Amazon if you want to be a cheap ass, but then the mom and pop grocers can now price compete and survive and retailers can cut better wholesale deals and spread the wealth.


i don't understand how someone can hate this happening

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79621 posts
Tue May-06-14 05:17 PM

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203. "Amazon prices would go up as well... "
In response to Reply # 126


          

Rent would go up, utilities qould go up... unemployment would go up as well.

People talk about Australia but they only have 23 million people.


  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Tue May-06-14 09:08 PM

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224. "Like I said else where. Australia's population is like metro NYC"
In response to Reply # 203


          

I hate when people ignore all these little details to try and make it seem like all nations are on this equal footing based on a cursory look at the numbers.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Tue May-06-14 09:07 PM

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223. "Wages don't go up in a bubble, smart guy. "
In response to Reply # 126


          

Cause that money is going to come out of somewhere...cause unless the government tells business how to spend money or they have moral business owners with a guilt streak, they're going pass those costs to consumers.

Thats why I say if you REALLY want to change things, you need to address the laws in place that regulate how companies pay people on some complex mathematics algorithm or something...

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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Mon May-05-14 08:21 PM

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127. "because the apparently want more unemployment.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

Ditch the paper, save the trees, and go mobile! Text bizcard to 32462!

  

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Phenomenality
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128. "The people that do, do not understand business. Period. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


...

Vee is I and I am She

...

Seeking: . Serenity . Courage . Wisdom .


http://twitter.com/#!/Phenomenality
http://instagram.com/therealphenomenality
http://phenomenality.tumblr.com/archive

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Mon May-05-14 08:43 PM

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129. "Nah, we just don't think that profiting at the expense of "
In response to Reply # 128


          

the American worker and taxpayer is an inalienable right. Or we know how these things work in other developed nations.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Mon May-05-14 08:52 PM

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130. "you mean other nations with WAY more taxes?"
In response to Reply # 129


          

Cause we can get into that if you REALLY want to...

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Mon May-05-14 09:10 PM

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132. "I'm okay with more taxes"
In response to Reply # 130


          

for more services, and vacation time and maternity/paternity leave and a better social safety net.

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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Tue May-06-14 04:02 AM

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144. "LoL"
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

>for more services, and vacation time and maternity/paternity
>leave and a better social safety net.

thing is, you won't get more of any of that
you will just pay more taxes
look at ACA
i am paying more taxes
but i'm still stuck with a $30k bill to deliver a baby
(thats WITH insurance!!!)
while Lucinda next door to us aint pay a single peso.

  

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BigReg
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Tue May-06-14 11:54 AM

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175. "But honestly, that's because of alot of the attitudes in the post"
In response to Reply # 144


  

          

>>for more services, and vacation time and
>maternity/paternity
>>leave and a better social safety net.
>
>thing is, you won't get more of any of that
>you will just pay more taxes
>look at ACA
>i am paying more taxes
>but i'm still stuck with a $30k bill to deliver a baby
>(thats WITH insurance!!!)
>while Lucinda next door to us aint pay a single peso.

Gametheory's on some, ITS NOT THE GOVERNMENT JOB TO HELP YOU PAY MORE, applied across all social services. All first world nations have a social net, however we are the only one that seems embarrassed to admit it; thus there are inefficiencies all around.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
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Tue May-06-14 09:05 PM

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222. "You can't keep taxes low AND complain about a lack of social net"
In response to Reply # 175


          

Thats just sheer slight of hand trickery.

PLUS, most of these nations most people like to lionize ain't more than even 30% of the US population...their entire land size is like a moderate sized US state, and they damn sure don't have the economic responsibility around the world like the USA does.

  

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BigReg
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Tue May-06-14 10:24 PM

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238. "You will never hear me complain about keeping taxes LOW"
In response to Reply # 222


  

          

>PLUS, most of these nations most people like to lionize ain't
>more than even 30% of the US population...their entire land
>size is like a moderate sized US state, and they damn sure
>don't have the economic responsibility around the world like
>the USA does.

LOL@economic responsibility. You mean empire building.


Our 30% in taxes gets us some of the worst education in the first world.
Our 30% in taxes gets us a second world-esque mortality rate.

etc.

Saying its because it's too big is a cop-out, our economy (well did) scale up largely, we are the richest country in the world.

The idea that keeping taxes low, privatize everything, let the free market decide is the biggest lie in the American dream. Upper/Lower and middle middle will always pay more taxes then the poor(righfully so) and the rich. Privatizing everything leaves little accountability and bleeds into government assisted abuse very easily, and the free market, as envisioned by the forefathers, is crony capitalism.

But that's neither here no there.

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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Wed May-07-14 10:21 AM

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271. "Or less taxes & YOU can spend your money how you like"
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

& pay for all of that yourself. What is this nonsensical ideal of paternalistic government taking care of your every need? You don't need government do what you can do for yourself.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

Ditch the paper, save the trees, and go mobile! Text bizcard to 32462!

  

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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
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Wed May-07-14 02:46 PM

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282. "Nah, I like modern society"
In response to Reply # 271


          

  

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BigReg
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286. "Dudes wanna go back to that Deadwood Western way of life"
In response to Reply # 282


  

          

Fire department, paved roads, free education for children, PSSSHHH.

All I need is my six shooter and my land!

  

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pallor7
Member since May 02nd 2014
25 posts
Tue May-06-14 08:56 AM

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155. "you can understand something & still think its wrong"
In response to Reply # 128


          

***
take my word for it

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
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Tue May-06-14 09:00 AM

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159. "if you had to pay your employees $15/hr. your customers"
In response to Reply # 128


          

would also get $15/hr minimum or higher wages and be able to afford your services. possibly more mothers would work and leave their kids with you instead of donig the math and deciding it's better to stay at home rather than collect 7.50 an hour.

  

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spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
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Tue May-06-14 11:35 AM

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169. "With all due respect, I think you and others like you"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

who come from an informed position and yet still disagree are looking at the problem myopicaly. Yes it will cost you more money, you will pass that cost on to the consumer who BY AND LARGE can afford the cost due to having more money. It will be a revenue neutral policy on you, however on the agregate it will put MILLIONS into the economy, spur more consumption, more jobs, more money, rinse, wash, repeat.

It's pretty standard Economic theory.

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

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Mahogany
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197. "do we really want people making $15/hr spending more?"
In response to Reply # 169
Tue May-06-14 05:04 PM by Mahogany

  

          

That's my thing with that whole argument. Assuming the person was struggling before what makes folks think they're gonna all of a sudden have all of this disposable income to spend on shit that they don't really need? Even for those that will buy more stuff...is that really a good thing? Sure it may be for the business owners, but for the person that was already struggling idk...

>who come from an informed position and yet still disagree are
>looking at the problem myopicaly. Yes it will cost you more
>money, you will pass that cost on to the consumer who BY AND
>LARGE can afford the cost due to having more money. It will be
>a revenue neutral policy on you, however on the agregate it
>will put MILLIONS into the economy, spur more consumption,
>more jobs, more money, rinse, wash, repeat.
>
>It's pretty standard Economic theory.

BUY SOMETHING PLEASE ---> www.estherwoovintage.com

"people... please refrain from gnr'ing me. im an avid lol'er and am completely fine wit the service."

"I’m just a dreamer,
turned true to life leaner...
Born to do good so others can be believers"

  

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spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
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Tue May-06-14 05:07 PM

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199. "YES!"
In response to Reply # 197


  

          

but that's besides the point. Regardless of whether we want it or not they WILL spend more. Becuase they have to. That spending will benefit ALL of us.

It's good for them, it's good for us all.

Win win.

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

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Mahogany
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Tue May-06-14 05:18 PM

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204. "its not good for them"
In response to Reply # 199


  

          

Let's be real a good amount of people are broke because they're in debt. Being broke and owing people $$ is a hard hole to get out of. Its super irresponsible on both ends.

>but that's besides the point. Regardless of whether we want
>it or not they WILL spend more. Becuase they have to. That
>spending will benefit ALL of us.
>
>It's good for them, it's good for us all.
>
>Win win.

BUY SOMETHING PLEASE ---> www.estherwoovintage.com

"people... please refrain from gnr'ing me. im an avid lol'er and am completely fine wit the service."

"I’m just a dreamer,
turned true to life leaner...
Born to do good so others can be believers"

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Tue May-06-14 06:46 PM

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207. "when people made more adjusted for inflation they borrowed less"
In response to Reply # 204


          

borrowing is an effect of the lower minimum wage.

  

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Mahogany
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Tue May-06-14 10:49 PM

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244. "im not talking about borrowing"
In response to Reply # 207


  

          

>borrowing is an effect of the lower minimum wage.

BUY SOMETHING PLEASE ---> www.estherwoovintage.com

"people... please refrain from gnr'ing me. im an avid lol'er and am completely fine wit the service."

"I’m just a dreamer,
turned true to life leaner...
Born to do good so others can be believers"

  

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MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
45200 posts
Wed May-07-14 09:52 PM

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299. "but that's what debt is"
In response to Reply # 244


  

          

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue May-06-14 10:25 PM

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239. ""all this disposable income?""
In response to Reply # 197


  

          

it's $15 an hour

aside from the fact that the $15 figure is a pipe dream on a federal level(there's already a collective hissy fit over the $10.10 proposal), it's pretty much just enough to pay for necessities without relying on the government titty.

also, the whole "if we give them money they'll just fuck up" comes off pretty arrogant. is keeping people poor teaching them financial responsibility?

  

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Mahogany
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Tue May-06-14 10:35 PM

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241. "what are you talking about?"
In response to Reply # 239


  

          

Learn how to read then talk to me

>it's $15 an hour
>
>aside from the fact that the $15 figure is a pipe dream on a
>federal level(there's already a collective hissy fit over the
>$10.10 proposal), it's pretty much just enough to pay for
>necessities without relying on the government titty.
>
>also, the whole "if we give them money they'll just fuck up"
>comes off pretty arrogant. is keeping people poor teaching
>them financial responsibility?

BUY SOMETHING PLEASE ---> www.estherwoovintage.com

"people... please refrain from gnr'ing me. im an avid lol'er and am completely fine wit the service."

"I’m just a dreamer,
turned true to life leaner...
Born to do good so others can be believers"

  

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Mynoriti
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Tue May-06-14 10:39 PM

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242. "LOL shit"
In response to Reply # 241


  

          

i did read your reply wrong. apologies.

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Mon May-05-14 09:04 PM

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131. "the # of people that articulated why this post is stupid is encouraging...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

maybe this place isn't turning into stormfront after all.

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Mon May-05-14 11:21 PM

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134. "The most valuable thing in a persons life is time and work"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

everything else is arbitrary especially in this system where sneakers cost 250 dollars and depending on designer name clothes, food etc price changes, value is a very subjective thing, hell look at difference in mortgage rates in certain areaa.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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sixteenstone
Member since Sep 22nd 2002
27996 posts
Mon May-05-14 11:56 PM

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137. "If anyone works full time, they should make a basic living wage"
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

$15hr is just about that in almost every state. We should stop looking at people as minimum wage workers, but as the working class. I saw a sign on the train today saying then a new law in NY for paid sick time off. Finally, someone is saying treat the working class like human beings. These huge cooperations have more than enough money to pay their workers fairly. Most mom and pop businesses are just that, they use family or themselves to operate. We let Walmart replace mostly all of them anyway. Who was thinking about them then?

Remember Novemthree's Courage...
visit on the web:www.16stonevintage.com
like on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/16stonevintage
follow on instagram: http://instagram.com/sixteenstone http://instagram.com/vintageblkmags/

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Tue May-06-14 08:25 AM

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149. "Its not the governments job to ensure that. Thats not what min wage is f..."
In response to Reply # 137


          

Minimum wage is a floor that has to account for EVERY type of business thats out there.

You'd see A LOT of stuff go belly up out here if they had maintain gov't mandated min wages that were a lot higher.

Yall get caught up on corporate but not the reality of what it takes to actually make money up here.

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Tue May-06-14 08:56 AM

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156. "who should pay for their food, clothing and shelter?"
In response to Reply # 149
Tue May-06-14 09:06 AM by ndibs

          

or should they walk around naked and live in cardboard boxes and under bridges?

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Tue May-06-14 09:02 PM

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220. "MINIMUM WAGE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A LIVING WAGE"
In response to Reply # 156


          

Repeat that until you understand it.

if you're SCRAPING BY you ain't ever really gonna make it.

Its like paying the minimum on your credit card bill.

  

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sixteenstone
Member since Sep 22nd 2002
27996 posts
Wed May-07-14 12:14 AM

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249. "says who? you making up rules for society now?"
In response to Reply # 220


  

          

Remember Novemthree's Courage...
visit on the web:www.16stonevintage.com
like on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/16stonevintage
follow on instagram: http://instagram.com/sixteenstone http://instagram.com/vintageblkmags/

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
37201 posts
Thu May-08-14 08:42 AM

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311. "So you're conceding you have no argument"
In response to Reply # 220


          

>Repeat that until you understand it.

Seems like you're stuck in this phase yourself.

Because you're repeating it but you sure don't seem to understand it.

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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sixteenstone
Member since Sep 22nd 2002
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Tue May-06-14 09:08 AM

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161. "well who is going to regulate it if they don't?"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

or would you rather keep paying more taxes for their welfare and medical expenses?
it is the job of the government to make sure that standard wage is keeping up with inflated cost of living.
if it were up to the companies they would pay people $2 a hour if they could get away with it.
these industries already get away with not paying people correctly under the current minimum wage.
there's sooooo many lawsuits over wage discrepancies it ain't funny. Oh but we should just leave it to them to treat their workers fairly?
No, the government must and and always has had to step in and make laws and requirements for workers to have any decent conditions.

Remember Novemthree's Courage...
visit on the web:www.16stonevintage.com
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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Tue May-06-14 09:01 PM

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219. "Wage increase? Cool. $15 MINIMUM? GTFOH. "
In response to Reply # 161


          

You gotta stop pretending that life is just hunky dory out here and that the government is just out to always help you.

its not.

And in a nation of 300million, not 10million like your favorite european nation, we can't afford to just be accomodating everyone's wellbeing like that.

Even further...MINIMUM WAGE IS NOT DESIGNED TO SUPPORT YOU.

So stop thinking that way, cause MOST PEOPLE do not make minimum wage.

  

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sixteenstone
Member since Sep 22nd 2002
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Wed May-07-14 12:11 AM

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247. "We already accomodate everyone's well being"
In response to Reply # 219


  

          

through welfare and medicaid. Wtf, lol. Carry on though.

Remember Novemthree's Courage...
visit on the web:www.16stonevintage.com
like on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/16stonevintage
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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Tue May-06-14 09:25 AM

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164. "I think that speaks to a deeper issue of why people"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

Work the jobs they do and how it fits into the cog of this system. You can have educated, trained, highly skilled professionals, but since America loves exploitation and slavery, you get dumbed down workers who wont threaten the status quo with intelligence, innovation and creativity because they are too busy trying to pay rent getting 300 a week if lucky. This country is slick and sick. Why is Walmart the largest employer in the U.S.? What purpose do they possibly serve other than for profit?

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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J_Stew
Member since Jul 06th 2002
22363 posts
Tue May-06-14 12:11 AM

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138. "In a moral, equitable society, the government needs to regulate capital"
In response to Reply # 0


          

and protect labor.

Capital(the owner class, 1 percent(although really more like the one tenth of one percent), big corporations) have shown time and time again that they are exploitive in nature and will do whatever they can to generate as much profit as possible with little to no regard for human dignity or rights. Without government intervention the labor class will be abused, this has never not been the case in human history.

I don't know what the exact minimum wage should be, but any productive member of society needs to be paid a livable wage. Even these people most of you look down on that do low end jobs, are still necessary cogs in the machine, SOMEONE has to do these jobs, whoever does them deserves to be paid enough to not need government assistance or live in poverty. If you aren't for a livable wage you should be for the government assistance of these people, if you are against both, fuck you.

  

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munehamon
Member since Nov 16th 2012
2130 posts
Tue May-06-14 12:44 AM

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139. "Corporations reporting record profits every year"
In response to Reply # 0


          

minimum wage should reflect this!.

What gets me is these companies have products they want to sell, isnt it in their best interest to pay people a living fucking wage so they can buy more of these products? Shit makes no sense! Minimum wage should be $21.75 per hour.

Corporations are the biggest welfare queens yet folks either are clueless or dont care.





quote:

If the minimum wage had grown at the same rate as the earnings of the top one percent of Americans the federal wage floor would be more than triple the current hourly minimum of $7.25. Instead, the minimum wage has been lower than a poverty wage ever since 1982.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/12/01/3007011/minimum-wage-percent-leave-workers/


quote:


American fast food workers receive more than $7 billion dollars in public assistance. As it turns out, McDonald's has a “McResource” line that helps employees and their families enroll in various state and local assistance programs. It exploded into the public when a recording of the McResource line advocated that full-time employees sign up for food stamps and welfare.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-13/how-mcdonald-s-and-wal-mart-became-welfare-queens.html

  

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munehamon
Member since Nov 16th 2012
2130 posts
Tue May-06-14 12:59 AM

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141. "Apple has over 140 billion dollars in banks overseas"
In response to Reply # 139


          

Their yearly revenue is around 170 billion a year, yet the average pay at Apple stores is 11.91 per hour?

Now if you work at Apple corporate the average pay is around $125,000 but the folks in the store are treated like serfs in comparison.

And if the workers in the Apple stores are serfs then without question the folks who build the various Apple products in factories in China are slaves.

Nothing but greed, pure and simple. SMH

No wonder Apples valuation is in excess of $500 billion dollars


  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79621 posts
Tue May-06-14 08:12 AM

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148. "the average Apple worker in the store spends 4 hours saying "
In response to Reply # 141


          

"see that guy over there, he can help you"

That place has 30 employees on the floor and 15 of them ain't doing much of anything besides telling you to go online.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Tue May-06-14 08:27 AM

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150. "Your reference is the biggest company where retail employees dont do muc..."
In response to Reply # 141


          

Just stop the noise.

They don't even code.

Have you been to an apple store? What worth do they bring besides just taking up space and doing basic customer service stuff?

AND they get paid WAY more than that depending on where the store is.

I know a bunch of people there who rave about their benefits.

  

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pallor7
Member since May 02nd 2014
25 posts
Tue May-06-14 08:58 AM

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157. "underpaid labor is a *source* of said profit"
In response to Reply # 139


          

lots of fools and idiots have taken the word "profit" and turned into a holy sacrament lol

***
take my word for it

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Tue May-06-14 09:02 AM

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160. "yes, but buying stocks is hard work so i want that profit..."
In response to Reply # 157


          

....

  

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munehamon
Member since Nov 16th 2012
2130 posts
Tue May-06-14 01:02 AM

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142. "RE: Why do people in 2014 think $15 for minimum wage is required?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

This is why.

quote:

American fast food workers receive more than $7 billion dollars in public assistance every year.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-10-15/mcdonalds-low-wages-come-with-a-7-billion-side-of-welfare

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44854 posts
Tue May-06-14 05:12 AM

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146. "I doubt they even pay that much in taxes."
In response to Reply # 142


  

          

-Sig-

“Why didn’t you do this in your own god damn country?"

-All Stah's view on undocumented immigrants wanting to be treated like human beings.

  

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pallor7
Member since May 02nd 2014
25 posts
Tue May-06-14 08:55 AM

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154. "they prolly do from cigarettes alone ha"
In response to Reply # 146


          

***
take my word for it

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Tue May-06-14 09:10 AM

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162. "what major U.S. corporation does anymore?"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Tue May-06-14 09:12 AM

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163. "LOL @ the misplaced anger in this Bitties-in-the-BK-Lounge-ass post n/m"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Tue May-06-14 11:03 AM

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167. "It doesn't matter what you or I might think is "right" or "wrong,""
In response to Reply # 0


          


or what you misunderstand the "intention" of the minimum wage to be.

The question we should be asking is what would make the overall economy work best. And it's pretty standard economics to say that an increase in the minimum wage would help the overall economy under current conditions.

The poor spend every dollar they get. The wealthy are more likely just to sit on a large fraction of it. They might invest in other businesses, but it's consumer spending that's the weakness in our economy right now, not investment. Funneling more money to the poor, and less to the wealthy, would make everybody better off.

All of this is of course putting aside the fact that we're fucking human beings, and we should design a society in which work should be available for everybody to survive.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Tue May-06-14 08:59 PM

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218. "Why are you equating LIVING wage with MINIMUM wage????"
In response to Reply # 167


          

They're NOT the same.

Minimum wage is: Here is something so that we can ensure you're getting something in return for your time.

Living wage is: Here is something that you can be an autonomous human being without worrying about some essentials.

NOT. THE. SAME.

So I'm sorry...if you live on minimum wage...YOU ain't doing it right.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Tue May-06-14 10:11 PM

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236. "You keep asking that as if you've discovered something profound."
In response to Reply # 218


          


You are the one who doesn't understand what's going on, not us.

The minimum wage is a human invention. It is whatever we make of it. If we want to decide that it has to represent a living wage, then we're perfectly able to do so. The only apparent side effect is that the economy as a whole would be more productive. I don't see why that's supposed to be a bad thing.

  

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Government Name
Member since Dec 16th 2005
23190 posts
Tue May-06-14 11:47 AM

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171. "my only thoughts on the issue are: "
In response to Reply # 0
Tue May-06-14 11:47 AM by Government Name

  

          

- anybody working 8 hours a day should receive a living wage. no full-time employee should make less than necessary to "live" wherever they are.

- it's not the government and taxpayers responsibility to make up that difference (between low wages and the living wage)

- minimum wage should at least keep up with inflation.

- wages need to increase across most industries, in general.

________
http://twitter.com/aehorton
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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Tue May-06-14 08:57 PM

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217. "Define "enough to live where they are" "
In response to Reply # 171


          

Do you not see the problem in your thinking?

Sorry.

If you work MINIMUM wage, a few things don't get afforded to you.

Housing, aint REALLY a right like that. You gotta pay for it. There are a few protections, but a lot of things ain't really in the consumer's favor with regards to that.

  

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Government Name
Member since Dec 16th 2005
23190 posts
Wed May-07-14 09:20 AM

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262. "RE: Define "enough to live where they are" "
In response to Reply # 217


  

          

"I" don't have to.

>Do you not see the problem in your thinking?

there isnt one.

>Sorry.
>
>If you work MINIMUM wage, a few things don't get afforded to
>you.

why?


>Housing, aint REALLY a right like that. You gotta pay for it.
>There are a few protections, but a lot of things ain't really
>in the consumer's favor with regards to that.

oh ok.

________
http://twitter.com/aehorton
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sixteenstone
Member since Sep 22nd 2002
27996 posts
Tue May-06-14 12:40 PM

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176. "I think part of the push back which nobody wants to say is"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

probably a lot of educated people are only making around $15hr. So they might find it insulting that $15hr could become the minimum wage. Instead of fighting for better wages in general, people accept what they can get.

Remember Novemthree's Courage...
visit on the web:www.16stonevintage.com
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BigReg
Charter member
62390 posts
Tue May-06-14 12:44 PM

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177. "YYYYYUUUUUUP."
In response to Reply # 176


  

          

  

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spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
44258 posts
Tue May-06-14 01:10 PM

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179. "Yes sir!"
In response to Reply # 176


  

          

If you making $17 and consider yourself above those min wage earners, and all of a sudden they making close to what you're making w/out experience or education, now your image of self/self-worth is threatened.

I wonder why so few people take the next step and say "Why not me?" "Why can't I ask for more money?"

Wages have been stagnant for the last 25 years! It ain't like we ain't ALL due a raise....

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

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sixteenstone
Member since Sep 22nd 2002
27996 posts
Tue May-06-14 02:43 PM

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183. "Crazy because I used to hold my nose up high and say I wouldn't"
In response to Reply # 179


  

          

work for any less than $20 per hr. In my freelance industry, that was on the low end of pay about 6 or 7 years ago. Then when the economy got bad, all of sudden companies started offering 18...then 16... then 15. Then once they saw they could get people for way cheaper than what they had been paying for years, the pay throughout the industry went DOWN. I could not believe it. I turn down so much because I figured out the less they pay you, the worse the job is. So I only seek out the higher paying jobs, because I feel I'm worth it. I am. So if you want someone good, pay up. Cause you work better when you can feel a sense of pride about earning a decent wage. It will amaze you just how much happier people's attitude when they can work full time and not be dirt poor. Our grandparents worked at factories, mills, and other domestic jobs and made a living for decades. Now that we successfully don't have industries that produce anything... what do we do for those with lower skills? Everyone can't be on top at the same time.

Remember Novemthree's Courage...
visit on the web:www.16stonevintage.com
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John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
15361 posts
Tue May-06-14 04:01 PM

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185. "^^^^^^^^like a 27 inch Zenith^^^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 176


          

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79621 posts
Tue May-06-14 04:33 PM

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187. "yep... colleges wouldn't be happy as well. "
In response to Reply # 176


          

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92696 posts
Tue May-06-14 04:51 PM

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193. "exactly"
In response to Reply # 176


  

          


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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Sarah_Bellum
Charter member
7489 posts
Tue May-06-14 04:57 PM

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196. "There it is ^^^^"
In response to Reply # 176


  

          

How can you be middle class if there is no one poor under you. If the poor are made equal to the people that "made the right choices, went to college, and got a cubical" then what was the point of doing that?
The concept that all people deserve adequate housing, food and clothing is in conflict with people's self-evaluation because it requires the poor be paid a living wage.
People will argue against their own best interest as long as it makes them feel better than someone else.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“The morality of work is fading because people can see that whether they’re working or not, they’re not being rewarded according to their efforts.”

My sites...
http://wakeupbeautiful.tumblr.com
http://www

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Tue May-06-14 08:55 PM

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216. "No sweetheart, you're trying to trivalize what you don't understand"
In response to Reply # 196


          

This isn't something that has to do with someone's insecurity.

This is a legit topic and you don't get to write it off as some sort of self-inflationary tactic used to hide someones lack of internal self worth.

  

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Sarah_Bellum
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Wed May-07-14 01:48 AM

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252. "Well bless your heart bitch!"
In response to Reply # 216
Wed May-07-14 02:05 AM by Sarah_Bellum

  

          

I didn't trivialize anything. I distilled part of why bammas that make $15-35 an hour/college grads don't want this. It has less to do with economics and more to do with social class. I come from a family that owned several small business for many years. This isn't new to me.

You've been given 50 different reason why you're wrong. Most of which are valid and this is reason 51. There is a lot of emotion tied into maintaing class stratification just as there is economics. Both reasons contribute to the reasons why people don't want the minimum wage.
When posters say "if they get 15 dollars what about me," not "what about my ability to keep a roof over my head" because they've already got that or "what my about ability to go to college" because most of the people bitching already have that. The underlying message is "What about the social class that I've worked hard to reach, maintain and benefits from being destroyed by an influx of poor unskilled people ."

If you want to argue that social class has no bearings on the way people view economic policy then not only is your logic flawed... you don't know shit about economics.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“The morality of work is fading because people can see that whether they’re working or not, they’re not being rewarded according to their efforts.”

My sites...
http://wakeupbeautiful.tumblr.com
http://www

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Wed May-07-14 03:32 AM

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253. "this is some ole Dr Seuss shit here"
In response to Reply # 252


  

          

>"what my about ability to go to
>college" because most of the people bitching already have
>that.

Guess I'm not one of those you're talking about because I don't have a degree.

>The underlying message is "What about the social class
>that I've worked hard to reach, maintain and benefits from
>being destroyed by an influx of poor unskilled people ."

Hahahahahahahaha! This here is some Mother Goose shit. I have no reason to worry about "poor unskilled people" 'cause ain't nobody hiring unskilled workers to do my job. There are people out there with PHD's that are considered "unskilled" next to me.

Your argument only works on people that are barely ranking above an "unskilled worker" themselves. When you get to my level (senior to management level) in STEM fields your entire argument falls apart... Even at the entry level in certain STEM fields you're not worried about "unskilled" workers coming up 'cause you can't just get in like that.

Who are these folks you're talking about that are worried about unskilled people???

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>“The morality of work is fading because people can see that
>whether they’re working or not, they’re not being rewarded
>according to their efforts.”
>
>My sites...
>http://wakeupbeautiful.tumblr.com
>http://www


---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Wed May-07-14 09:19 AM

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261. "Still trying to psychoanalyze isntead of addressing policy"
In response to Reply # 252


          

The minimum wage DOES NOT entitle you to a comfortable life.

Nor should it.

Its the governments protection against ultimate exploitation.

That doesn't mean you deserve to live in a two bedroom apartment.

Why?

Cause the FEDERAL wage applies to EVERYONE in the country. Across the board.

Thats from podunk, mississippi to NYC and Chicago.

Again, you're trying to make this abuot some protectionary shit and self defense against a social class.

Its not.

Its sheer policy.

Lets be real here. If I'm threatened by minimum wage, then I'm LOSING.

But thats another story.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Tue May-06-14 08:52 PM

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215. "This is classic DEFLECTION bullshit.Stop trying to intellectualize this"
In response to Reply # 176


          

Not everyone is just "hating" on the next man.

Ya'll AGAIN are not understanding what this is about.

Minimum wage IS NOT supposed to support you.

Its just not.

It was NEVER supposed to.

I'm not someone scratching $15 trying to bolster myself up.

Ya'll stay looking to expose and pseudo-psychoanalyze anyone you disagree with so you can write it off as pathology.

I'm sticking to my subject here.

On what grounds in 2014 does minimum wage need to be raised to $15 per hour?

  

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BigReg
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Tue May-06-14 10:29 PM

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240. "We are saying your argument is fundementally flawed"
In response to Reply # 215


  

          

You keep on saying 'ITS THE FLOOR, ITS THE FLOOR' but the facts are, in 2014, in a recession, in what presumably will be the new normal economic wise.

1)The 'minimum wage' will be the standard (and not really due to underemployment) for the poor for the near future.

2)Social mobility will be much harder since jobs are more scarce and education is more expensive.

I too can try to break down something as complex as the market reaction to the doubling of the minimum wage into A+B=C

But it's infinitely more complex then that, don't know why you keep on pushing that line o' thinking though yourself

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Wed May-07-14 09:16 AM

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260. "Still more irrevalent nonsense"
In response to Reply # 240


          

Don't tell me about "social mobility" when you're making the absolute least a mount of money you can possibly make in the eyes of the government.

You aint gonna do much with that. Nor should you.

AND why are you trying so hard to make a MINIMUM wage something its not?

This is something used by EVERYONE...not just your big corporations.

  

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BigReg
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Wed May-07-14 09:32 AM

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264. "So what should you do?"
In response to Reply # 260


  

          

>You aint gonna do much with that. Nor should you.
>
>AND why are you trying so hard to make a MINIMUM wage
>something its not?
>
>This is something used by EVERYONE...not just your big
>corporations.

Since you feel that everyone on minimum wage is by choice?

  

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Binlahab
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Wed May-07-14 08:05 AM

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259. "this has been what ive been hollering."
In response to Reply # 176


  

          

when the mininum wage is 15/hr...what happens to everyone ELSE on the wage scale?

the guy flipping burgers gets 15/hr...so now the shift manager who was getting 15/hr is expecting and SHOULD receive a raise. so should the store manager. so should the district manager. etc etc.

& who pays for this labor wage increase? the customers.

goodbye dollar menu


does it really matter?

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Wed May-07-14 11:41 AM

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277. "No one will ever address this... EVER."
In response to Reply # 259


  

          

>when the mininum wage is 15/hr...what happens to everyone
>ELSE on the wage scale?
>
>the guy flipping burgers gets 15/hr...so now the shift manager
>who was getting 15/hr is expecting and SHOULD receive a raise.
>so should the store manager. so should the district manager.
>etc etc.
>
>& who pays for this labor wage increase? the customers.
>
>goodbye dollar menu

We've already seen the result of the increase in the price of gas on products. Ever since the price of gas went over $3/gallon, the price of pretty much everything has gone up to the point where food manufacturers are now shipping packages with less in them to maintain price points. (i.e. that $3 1lb smoked sausage ring in now a $3.19 14oz ring)

Imagine what's going to happen when salaries are forced to be increased across the board for people in fast food?

---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79621 posts
Wed May-07-14 11:53 AM

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278. "everything get's reset at a higher cost"
In response to Reply # 259


          

The dollar menu will be a $4 menu...

A quarter pounder meal will be $12...



  

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MiQL
Member since Sep 03rd 2002
7208 posts
Wed May-07-14 09:50 PM

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298. "Truthy"
In response to Reply # 176


  

          

"a little air restriction ain't hurt nobody." - BSR

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Tue May-06-14 12:49 PM

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178. "the problem isnt w/how people view it, it's how employers view it IMO"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

people know their job sucks and their wages suck and in many cases they even know how easily they could be replaced.

IMO the perception problem here is with owners. the view of many businesses' view on wages is symptomatic of a larger issue, that the bottom penny is the bottom line. it's short-sighted corporatism (redundant?), really. There is no more value seen in the continuity and trustworthiness of the work force, only in quarterly if not daily profits. So if businesses keep paying what they *can* instead of what they should, we're going to continue to have depressed wages in the market we've had for several years now.

i think the question from a public standpoint is very simple, do we want a minimum or a living wage? that's a complex question. i have been places with a living wage like sweden and it was working but did lead to considerable price inflation. i've also been places with no minimum wage or a very low minimum wage, like colombia, where the standard of living is a little lower but the minimum wage is only about $1 an hour. it's a pretty dysfunctional labor situation.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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mathmagic
Charter member
6078 posts
Tue May-06-14 02:35 PM

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182. "*shrug* why not just print more money?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79621 posts
Tue May-06-14 04:48 PM

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189. "basically..."
In response to Reply # 182


          

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Tue May-06-14 08:49 PM

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214. "I hope you're not serious..."
In response to Reply # 182


          

Cause it sounds like most of people in here would advocate that and just look surprised when a pack of gum cost $10.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Tue May-06-14 10:24 PM

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237. "He's probably joking, but he's absolutely right."
In response to Reply # 214


          


We absolutely need to "print more money." The federal reserve has effectively been doing that ever since the financial crisis, and that's about the only thing that's kept us out of a full scale depression.

And despite all this "money printing," inflation is still BELOW the level where it would be in a healthy economy.

Have you been paying any attention at all?

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92696 posts
Tue May-06-14 04:53 PM

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194. "Robert Reich: The 4 biggest right-wing lies about income inequality"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.salon.com/2014/05/06/robert_reich_the_4_biggest_right_wing_lies_about_income_inequality_partner/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow


Former labor secretary explains why we're headed for a new Gilded Age -- and why conservatives offer no solutions

Even though French economist Thomas Piketty has made an airtight case that we’re heading toward levels of inequality not seen since the days of the nineteenth-century robber barons, right-wing conservatives haven’t stopped lying about what’s happening and what to do about it.

-Herewith, the four biggest right-wing lies about inequality, followed by the truth.

Lie number one: The rich and CEOs are America’s job creators. So we dare not tax them.

The truth is the middle class and poor are the job-creators through their purchases of goods and services. If they don’t have enough purchasing power because they’re not paid enough, companies won’t create more jobs and economy won’t grow.

We’ve endured the most anemic recovery on record because most Americans don’t have enough money to get the economy out of first gear. The economy is barely growing and real wages continue to drop.

We keep having false dawns. An average of 200,000 jobs were created in the United States over the last three months, but huge numbers of Americans continue to drop out of the labor force.

Lie number two: People are paid what they’re worth in the market. So we shouldn’t tamper with pay.

The facts contradict this. CEOs who got 30 times the pay of typical workers forty years ago now get 300 times their pay not because they’ve done such a great job but because they control their compensation committees and their stock options have ballooned.

Meanwhile, most American workers earn less today than they did forty years ago, adjusted for inflation, not because they’re working less hard now but because they don’t have strong unions bargaining for them.

More than a third of all workers in the private sector were unionized forty years ago; now, fewer than 7 percent belong to a union.

Lie number three: Anyone can make it in America with enough guts, gumption, and intelligence. So we don’t need to do anything for poor and lower-middle class kids.

The truth is we do less than nothing for poor and lower-middle class kids. Their schools don’t have enough teachers or staff, their textbooks are outdated, they lack science labs, their school buildings are falling apart.

We’re the only rich nation to spend less educating poor kids than we do educating kids from wealthy families.

ADVERTISEMENT

All told, 42 percent of children born to poor families will still be in poverty as adults – a higher percent than in any other advanced nation.

Lie number four: Increasing the minimum wage will result in fewer jobs. So we shouldn’t raise it.

In fact, studies show that increases in the minimum wage put more money in the pockets of people who will spend it – resulting in more jobs, and counteracting any negative employment effects of an increase in the minimum.

Three of my colleagues here at the University of California at Berkeley — Arindrajit Dube, T. William Lester, and Michael Reich – have compared adjacent counties and communities across the United States, some with higher minimum wages than others but similar in every other way.

They found no loss of jobs in those with the higher minimums.

The truth is, America’s lurch toward widening inequality can be reversed. But doing so will require bold political steps.

At the least, the rich must pay higher taxes in order to pay for better-quality education for kids from poor and middle-class families. Labor unions must be strengthened, especially in lower-wage occupations, in order to give workers the bargaining power they need to get better pay. And the minimum wage must be raised.

Don’t listen to the right-wing lies about inequality. Know the truth, and act on it.
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
44258 posts
Tue May-06-14 05:10 PM

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200. "The crazy thing is you don't even need a PhD in Econ to understand this."
In response to Reply # 194


  

          

The right wing economic policy is just a thinly disguised pander to the rich. It makes no sense economically nor even logically.

Yet ppl STAY falling for it.

smh

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Tue May-06-14 05:30 PM

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205. "It's not that cut and dry"
In response to Reply # 200
Tue May-06-14 05:30 PM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

          

CEO compensation and the impact of minimum wages are far from settled topics, especially minimum wage.

The evidence that shows that increasing the minimum wage decreases unemployment is contrary to theory and there are a whole host of studies that show the opposite. So this remains a hotly contested issue.

The job creators lie is the one that bothers me the most though. To overcome that, just ask someone how does a wealthy person actually create a job. They won't be able to tell you.

_______________________________________

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Tue May-06-14 07:05 PM

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209. "you think you know better than robert reich... ?"
In response to Reply # 205


          

and all these harvards stanford phds?

cool.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Tue May-06-14 07:13 PM

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211. "lol.There are Harvard/Stanford Phds who disagree w/ Harvard/Stanford PhD..."
In response to Reply # 209


          

Especially on the issue of the impacts of minimum wage

_______________________________________

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Tue May-06-14 09:26 PM

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232. "folks dont know the beef b/w the east coast and chicago economics"
In response to Reply # 211


          

Theres an entire frame of mind that segments of the country rely on to make economic decisions and policy.

It really shows who has taken the time to understand these nuances.

  

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GameTheory
Member since Jun 06th 2012
1642 posts
Tue May-06-14 08:49 PM

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213. "He isnt an authority on ALL topics. Hes all over the place"
In response to Reply # 209


          

he's clearly a lefty...and I kinda am...but Folks still are not understanding what minimum wage is supposed to do.

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92696 posts
Wed May-07-14 07:46 AM

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257. "Consistently and ridiculously"
In response to Reply # 200


  

          


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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Phenomenality
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Tue May-06-14 07:08 PM

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210. "I'm not arguing that multi-million dollar corporations shouldn't pay"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but making all small mom and pops businesses (a majority of whom are netting less than $250,000 per year) regardless of type of business they are, pay $15 even to teenagers and pt workers and aides and for entry level positions is going to wreak havoc on an already unstable economy.


...

Vee is I and I am She

...

Seeking: . Serenity . Courage . Wisdom .


http://twitter.com/#!/Phenomenality
http://instagram.com/therealphenomenality
http://phenomenality.tumblr.com/archive

  

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munehamon
Member since Nov 16th 2012
2130 posts
Tue May-06-14 09:28 PM

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233. "RE: I'm not arguing that multi-million dollar corporations shouldn't pay"
In response to Reply # 210


          

Thats a valid concern, perhaps some sort of criteria is in order. CEO to worker pay ratio, yearly revenue, number of employees, etc.


When Walmart CEO Michael Duke makes more than 1000 (23 million a year) times the average worker there is a serious problem. Walmart and the Walton family need a firm kick in the ass.




  

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Mahogany
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56697 posts
Tue May-06-14 11:43 PM

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246. "yup "
In response to Reply # 210


  

          

Nevermind that a lot of these small business owners barely get paid themselves.

That's really my main issue with all this. I get both sides, but I think a lot of people let their emotions get in the way of them understanding the big picture. Most of the examples being used are based around larger companies. I don't think anyone is really worried about them though.

BUY SOMETHING PLEASE ---> www.estherwoovintage.com

"people... please refrain from gnr'ing me. im an avid lol'er and am completely fine wit the service."

"I’m just a dreamer,
turned true to life leaner...
Born to do good so others can be believers"

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Wed May-07-14 10:22 AM

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272. "most small businesses support an increase. youre in the minority"
In response to Reply # 210


          

in not agreeing putting more money in the hands of consumers would result in people spending more and their revenue going up.

http://www.smallbusinessmajority.org/small-business-research/minimum-wage/

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79621 posts
Wed May-07-14 11:57 AM

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279. "exactly.. mom and pops can barely stay open as it is..."
In response to Reply # 210


          

and now you want them to pay $15 an hour?

While Walmart and other box stores are still importing from China?

It's not sustainable across the board and the UE would be high as hell. So now you have people on welfare getting MORE money because housing will go up due to prices increasing and we are right back where we started.

Slight increases will work and states can increases minimum wage as they see fit. Federally tho... no way we can go up to $15

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35264 posts
Wed May-07-14 09:28 PM

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294. "You've ID'd the problem, but its not min wage"
In response to Reply # 279


  

          

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
25755 posts
Tue May-06-14 09:05 PM

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221. "Small biz employs the most folks in the USA"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

so when you trying to punish big biz with min wage laws
you actually hurt more small biz in the process

  

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Sarah_Bellum
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7489 posts
Tue May-06-14 11:08 PM

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245. "We can't act like small business don't exploit workers for greater profi..."
In response to Reply # 221
Tue May-06-14 11:37 PM by Sarah_Bellum

  

          

Some of the most wrenched employers I've had have been small businesses with no HR, no employee policy, and didn't follow basic labor laws and protections.
Why? Because they're a small business and in their minds they should be able to do whatever it takes to stay afloat, even if that means lying, stealing, cheating and exploiting workers just as much a big corporate enterprises.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“The morality of work is fading because people can see that whether they’re working or not, they’re not being rewarded according to their efforts.”

My sites...
http://wakeupbeautiful.tumblr.com
http://www

  

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sixteenstone
Member since Sep 22nd 2002
27996 posts
Wed May-07-14 12:13 AM

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248. "^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 245


  

          

Remember Novemthree's Courage...
visit on the web:www.16stonevintage.com
like on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/16stonevintage
follow on instagram: http://instagram.com/sixteenstone http://instagram.com/vintageblkmags/

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92696 posts
Wed May-07-14 07:41 AM

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255. "My mom worked for a ridiculous amount of small businesses"
In response to Reply # 245


  

          

Before she became a citizen
The exploitation was ridiculous and shameful
On the one hand she was grateful for the employment but on the other?
In inequality was so damn shameful

She was only able to retire because she joined a union which gave a decent wage and a pension and continues to protect her even in retirement


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Wed May-07-14 02:48 PM

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283. "i hope to never ever work for a small time employer again"
In response to Reply # 245


  

          

after the way i was exploited by the small time employers i've worked for. it was terrible.

never again!

fuck you.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35264 posts
Wed May-07-14 09:29 PM

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295. "BINGO BANGO ITS IN THE NET"
In response to Reply # 245


  

          

  

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ndibs
Member since Aug 06th 2012
12715 posts
Wed May-07-14 09:48 AM

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265. "that's only w/definitions of 20mil revenue yr or 500 employees"
In response to Reply # 221


          

that's not mom & pop or what most people think of a small businesses.

  

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spades
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
44258 posts
Wed May-07-14 10:23 AM

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273. "Please say this shit so they can hear you."
In response to Reply # 265


  

          

If you actually LOOK at what is defined as a 'small business' you'd be shocked.

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
37201 posts
Wed May-07-14 09:52 AM

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266. "this is how warped the debate is. "Punishment""
In response to Reply # 221


          

You view paying a living wage to employees as "punishment" for the business.

That's really telling.

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79621 posts
Wed May-07-14 11:59 AM

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280. "to a mom and pop it is punishment"
In response to Reply # 266


          

  

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SoWhat
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Wed May-07-14 02:50 PM

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285. "then mom and pop need to find something else to do w/their time."
In response to Reply # 280


  

          

b/c being in a biz as an employer ain't for them if they can't pay their employees a living wage and keep the biz afloat.

fuck you.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79621 posts
Wed May-07-14 03:30 PM

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287. "nope"
In response to Reply # 285


          

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Wed May-07-14 10:14 AM

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269. "But Walmart employs the largest percentage of people"
In response to Reply # 221


  

          

So what you saying.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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SoWhat
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Wed May-07-14 02:49 PM

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284. "if they can't afford to pay their employees they should maybe"
In response to Reply # 221


  

          

not be in biz or should find a way to manage w/o employees.

fuck that.

fuck you.

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
25755 posts
Wed May-07-14 07:21 PM

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288. "stone cold"
In response to Reply # 284


  

          

http://gatlinsbbq.com/
you telling me SHE or any bbq shaq in st louis or memphis shouldnt be in biz because they can't afford to pay a FTE $120 per day to serve rib tip sandwiches?

yall is cruel man!

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Wed May-07-14 09:09 PM

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290. "there is a story about a chimp; this is a TRUE story. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

there was this man that had a chimp.
the chimp would climb up trees and grab coconuts.
then the chimp would bring the coconuts down to the man.

the man would sell the coconuts,
and then give the chimp some bananas.

this worked for a while, but one day the chimp... who was being abused by the man,
got fed up. the chimp didn't find the work satisfying, and lets face it,
the chimp was doing all the work.


so one day, the chimp climbed up the tree, grabbed a coconut,
and-- i shit you not-- threw a coconut at the man, killing him instantly.
then the chimp went down the tree and ate all the bananas he wanted.


a lot of folks were mad at the chimp.
i think they actually put that chimp to sleep.


but i swear, the chimp was thinking way clearer
than the people agreeing with the OP.
I mean goddamn.

anybody that is willing to work SHOULD make a living wage.
why?

because we are human fucking beings,
and we should not, as a society, be cool with people working two (or three) jobs
that have to chose between rent, or food, or medicine.

as a society, we should find that abhorant.
and lets be clear-- if enough ppl DID find it abhorant,
and refused to work until that was no longer the case,
the corporations AND the mom and pop stores that "can't afford" to pay a living wage
would somehow, magically, come up with the money.

i am not yet willing to sacrifice all of my material comforts
to make the world a better place.
but the fact that there are ppl in this post that are opposed the idea that WANT TO WORK should receive a living wage is callous if not appalling if not evil.

i typically don't use anecdotes because
i hate when republicans do it.
but whatever. since the OP wants to pretend that there is NO middle ground
between wage slavery and McDonald's workers making 100 dollars an hour,
and that we couldn't decide that minimum wage couldn't be a living wage if the govt said so, i'll be as unfair as i want to be.

the chimp in my anecdote had a better sense of his own self interest
than the ppl agreeing with the OP.

goddamn.
minimum wage should be a liveable wage because
Ppl that want to work shouldn't starve and shit.
and we need the govt to do it because left to their own devices,
employers would pay ppl NOTHING to work.

Jesus Christ.

that was long winded but I'm not editing.
time for bed.

shit

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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Wed May-07-14 09:16 PM

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291. "RE:that have to chose between rent, or food, or medicine. "
In response to Reply # 290


  

          

what are you all basing this number on?
for a single person to live off of?
because $15 per hour aint enough for two ppl to raise a kid in nyc
so then they will STILL be on public assistance or just not live in nyc

i dont have a problem with the min wage being raised really
i want folks to THINK THINGS THROUGH before the floor is raised
i think SSI/MEDICARE payments are tied to min wage
imagine alllll the retired folks on SSI who will get a HUGE bump in their checks.

and if you're not affording any type of life altering medicine on $15 an hour.
no matter what, that shit will be subsidised at that pay grade.

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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Wed May-07-14 09:27 PM

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293. "Your Paycheck Results Net Pay $386.50"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Your Paycheck Results

Weekly Gross Pay $480.00
Federal Withholding $56.78
Social Security $29.76
Medicare $6.96
Texas $0.00

Net Pay$386.50

A single person making $15 an hour working 32 hrs a week should net $386 per week or about $1,550 per month NET

This is in Texas. I will say Houston because I know it best.
Rent will be $750 for something where you won't fear having your girlfriend parking and walking to your front door alone at night.

You left with $800

House Food is $250 (bout $65 per week for staples)

You left with $550

Health insurance is about $100 for a single young person.

You left with $450

Oh I forgot savings of 10% so that is $150 per month now you have $300

Electricity $50 (but really should be around $100) now you left with $250

I'm not even down to transportation yet. Say somebody gave you a decent car and all you need is insurance and registration say $75 per month for both

You have $175

Now you need gasolina for the hoopty $150 per month

You have $25

It's all kinda stuff I'm leaving out but as we can see $15 an hour is pushing it in Houston. Needs to be $25 per hour if you want to be honest.

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35264 posts
Wed May-07-14 09:32 PM

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296. "some real fucking chowderheads in here"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

People are more worried about keeping the next man down than raising themselves up

  

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MiracleRic
Member since Oct 21st 2002
45200 posts
Wed May-07-14 10:01 PM

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300. "i'm willing to concede more than i was originally"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

im not fully in favor of that "floor" being raised across the board

but i do think livable wages should be something that big companies/corps should be required to consider

i think that the floor should slide based on profit margins, size, age and even location

i think this complicates it...but i think the major issue is that we aren't willing to reconfigure our current systems

for instance...down times...

a restaurant during a slow time is practically wasting money constantly...

the businesses need to become smarter and a premium often should be passed on to the consumer sometimes...

some of these things business owners have to figure out anyway but far too often they rely on SOP, industry standards...

i think it's finally time that people realize that we may in fact have to reinvent the wheel bc things aren't working as well as they should

livable wages for able-bodied non-skilled adults in this country should not be such an audacious goal

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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Thu May-08-14 08:24 AM

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306. "i conceited too. but you're trying to have govt regulate/run biz"
In response to Reply # 300


  

          

>but i do think livable wages should be something that big
>companies/corps should be required to consider
>
>i think that the floor should slide based on profit margins,
>size, age and even location

>the businesses need to become smarter and a premium often
>should be passed on to the consumer sometimes...



what you're suggesting is lightweight socialism and state-run businesses.
forcing a company to share profits with employees on a sliding scale?
if i put my family's lifeblood on the line to start a biz,
why should i be forced to share the profits with people that didn't think up my idea nor have any vested interest in the process?

and exactly that's what i was getting at with movie theater folks shovelling popcorn and passing our churros at $15 per hour.
movies run in 90mins to 150mins blocks
you can TRY to stagger you showtimes so you will always have a packed concession area but that's not always possible nor optimal

  

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Binlahab
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Thu May-08-14 08:34 AM

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308. "conceded, nigga. how abt we dont use words we cant spell. nm"
In response to Reply # 306


  

          


does it really matter?

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
25755 posts
Thu May-08-14 08:37 AM

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310. "LoL you dont think i know that? chill essay. n/m"
In response to Reply # 308


  

          

.

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
25755 posts
Thu May-08-14 08:37 AM

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309. "the fed govt dont even pay a min of $15. why dont obama start there!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/pdf/2014/GS_h.pdf

my first job out of ugrad was a statistician for the census bureau
i was a gs-7 making $29,996 per year
but that was WITH the DC locality pay adjustment/increase
this was in 2001
i was soooooo poor back then
it took me six months to get on track with a budget and such

if obama was BOUT IT
he would start the GS-1 Step 1 (which is now $8.62) off at $15.00 and all hourly rates would increase from there proporitionally

  

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veritas
Member since Sep 16th 2002
37201 posts
Thu May-08-14 08:46 AM

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312. "Raising gov wages without raising minimum wage would be a nightmare"
In response to Reply # 309


          

For about a thousand reasons

i still blame hip-hop.

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
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Thu May-08-14 08:48 AM

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313. "why? name a few."
In response to Reply # 312


  

          

dont lead where you wont go
dont teach what you dont know

  

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deejboram
Member since Sep 27th 2002
25755 posts
Wed May-21-14 10:55 PM

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314. "it is 11pm, i have been up since 5am wont sleep til 1am back up at 4am"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

there is NO WAY IN FUCKING HELL i should have to share my profits with a nigga that didnt finish high school and works for me
under any circumstances
not only MY life but i got my FAMILY'S life riding on this shit
luckily shit is panning out the way i planned (or else we'd be eating pork n beans every night and my wife would have a bus pass)

there is something to be said for someone to create their own existence and carve their own way
shit aint easy
and i've taken a few blows along the way
hell, i didnt even get to play with my daughter today as i left before she woke up and by the time i got home it was passed her bedtime
#baddad
but the nigga making $15 gets to spend all that quality time with his kid(s)
#sacrifices

  

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Government Name
Member since Dec 16th 2005
23190 posts
Thu May-22-14 09:35 AM

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315. "lol"
In response to Reply # 314


  

          

________
http://twitter.com/aehorton
http://instagram.com/aehorton

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
26762 posts
Thu May-22-14 12:11 PM

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316. "Because people have too many fucking kids"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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