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topic #43886

Subject: "So is Biggie really the best Mc from New York?"

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k_orr
Charter member
80197 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 10:17 PM

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"So is Biggie really the best Mc from New York?"

Like out of all the mc's that city has produced, Biggie is #1.

If not #1, in the top 3?

Is this true East Coasters, Tri Staters, and Rotten Apple Dwellers?

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Topic Outline

Subject	Author	Message Date	ID
I've heard the name Big L used in the same sentence	farbod	Apr 17th 2005	1
the top 10 list of all time is all new york mcs...	My_SP1200_Broken_Again	Apr 17th 2005	2
really?	ne_atl	Apr 18th 2005	49
who snuck in outta state?	My_SP1200_Broken_Again	Apr 18th 2005	51
Scarface for sure	CMcMurtry	Apr 18th 2005	52
RE: Scarface for sure	My_SP1200_Broken_Again	Apr 18th 2005	59
Masta Ace over Cube and Scarface?	CMcMurtry	Apr 18th 2005	60
masta ace aside then..	My_SP1200_Broken_Again	Apr 18th 2005	66
No way	CMcMurtry	Apr 18th 2005	69
i said ace aside..	My_SP1200_Broken_Again	Apr 18th 2005	71
lol at this lost cause	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	82
y'all ny cats are gonna stop claiming redman dammit	hateration	Apr 18th 2005	124
RE: y'all ny cats are gonna stop claiming redman dammit	My_SP1200_Broken_Again	Apr 18th 2005	212
I almost totally agree with this list	queenisisdivine	Apr 19th 2005	232
Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, KRS-One, Chuck D, Melle Mel	Jumpin On Hoes Like Mario From	Apr 17th 2005	3
Top 10 I would say, not 3 or number 1.	Innocent Criminal	Apr 17th 2005	4
cosign...	javi222	Apr 17th 2005	5
what's the point of this question?	stattic	Apr 17th 2005	6
to get an answer	k_orr	Apr 17th 2005	16
it's a mismatch b/c biggie was that much better?	stattic	Apr 17th 2005	18
which is why I don't want to discuss the Pac angle	k_orr	Apr 17th 2005
i dont know, i think he would have ended up being the best	stattic	Apr 17th 2005	24
RE: Is that the general EAST COAST consensus?	The Rapture7	Apr 18th 2005	55
ya know what I notice for mofos who say the mainstream loves Pac	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	84
its a mismatch for real.....but you know when it comes to BIG	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	39
basically	k_orr	Apr 18th 2005	70
and all his singles played it safe the reason we have	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	75
"Sky's The Limit" n/m	Jagunjagun	Apr 18th 2005	98
RE: basically	stattic	Apr 18th 2005	121
biggie mentioned his mothers breast cancer	fire	Apr 18th 2005	137
you take the comment 2 ways	k_orr	Apr 18th 2005	143
#1 doesn't apply to me and #2 would be true if topical range	stattic	Apr 18th 2005	200
by sheer virtue of having 9 albums vs 2.	k_orr	Apr 18th 2005	211
RE: by sheer virtue of having 9 albums vs 2.	stattic	Apr 19th 2005	243
top 3, sure.	Guinness	Apr 17th 2005	7
Why is this still being asked?	Jagunjagun	Apr 17th 2005	8
classic output?	Guinness	Apr 17th 2005	11
Nas's 1st two albums > B.I.G.'s 1st two albums	DJR	Apr 17th 2005	15
maybe.	Guinness	Apr 17th 2005	21
He's a better lyricist n/m	Jagunjagun	Apr 17th 2005	26
agreed.	Guinness	Apr 17th 2005	28
but that's part of my point	DJR	Apr 18th 2005	30
life after death tho.. was mad filler...	My_SP1200_Broken_Again	Apr 18th 2005	67
The people of New York City vote yes	Clash Sic	Apr 17th 2005	9
he's top 10 but not #1	sosa	Apr 17th 2005	10
Notorious B.I.G. Waz Never An Emcee Juz A Popular Rapper	Grand_Styles	Apr 17th 2005	12
GTFOHWTBS	prettytony79	Apr 17th 2005	14
How Come Ice Cube, Tupac, & Ice T. Can Claim Da West Coast?	Grand_Styles	Apr 17th 2005	19
RE: How Come Ice Cube, Tupac, & Ice T. Can Claim Da West Coast?	TomTillett2004	Apr 17th 2005	22
ice cube was born in cali	stattic	Apr 17th 2005	23
what about Ice T?	Jagunjagun	Apr 17th 2005	27
he was born in jerz	stattic	Apr 18th 2005	202
yall kill me with this BIG brought the east back	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	40
I'm not saying that they didn't exist but...	prettytony79	Apr 18th 2005	54
exactly... someone sees the light...	My_SP1200_Broken_Again	Apr 18th 2005	93
None of those had the national impact "Ready To Die" did	CMcMurtry	Apr 18th 2005	171
How can you compare this?	DJPrimetime	May 01st 2005	260
Flag on the play...	TomTillett2004	Apr 17th 2005	20
^^^UP^^^	TomTillett2004	Apr 18th 2005	34
RE: Flag on the play...	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	41
The best that was murdered. n/m	Slimkiddrob	Apr 17th 2005	13
Hate hate hate hate (c) Silkey Johnston	TomTillett2004	Apr 17th 2005	17
His story-telling Puts Him way up there	mistermaxxx	Apr 17th 2005	25
so Nas would def be ahead since he is the better storyteller?	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	42
is he? or did he just get a chance to tell more stories?	hateration	Apr 18th 2005	135
BIGGIE WAS FUNNY, NAS ISN'T, GAME OVER	fire	Apr 18th 2005	142
Since when is hip hop stand-up comedy?	CMcMurtry	Apr 18th 2005	164
thats not what i said	fire	Apr 19th 2005	229
LOL so what did ya say then?	CMcMurtry	Apr 19th 2005	235
nas was a storyteller, biggie was a funny storyteller	fire	Apr 20th 2005	256
and this somehow makes him better?	Menphyel7	Apr 20th 2005	258
ha ha come on now.....Suspect	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	184
No.	BISON CLASS of 97	Apr 18th 2005	29
I really like Biggie but	Hitokiri	Apr 18th 2005	31
No, top 10	Cashish	Apr 18th 2005	32
nope.	Aeon	Apr 18th 2005	33
he's the best of all time... period!	the unknockable hustle	Apr 18th 2005	35
Nas is King of Newyork... always has been	Blackonbothsides	Apr 18th 2005	36
your reign on the top was short like leprechauns	hateration	Apr 18th 2005	133
basically... nas was done after kick in the door	the unknockable hustle	Apr 18th 2005	199
No	Organ	Apr 18th 2005	37
12/22	k_orr	Apr 18th 2005	38
only on okayplayer would you get "big isn't even in the top 10&quot...	braille	Apr 18th 2005	43
the nigguh was/is overrated and is ...	NYC upt JUX	Apr 18th 2005	48
top5 before he died	Iltigo	Apr 18th 2005	44
of all time?	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	45
i meant of his time/era/generation	Iltigo	Apr 18th 2005	46
nas wasn't hitting?	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	47
i have had a long history of hating on nas	Iltigo	Apr 18th 2005	72
Rakim, KRS, Slick Rick, Kool G Rap, Big Daddy Kane.	bluetiger	Apr 18th 2005	50
To me, he's like 8th or 9th	TurkeylegJenkins	Apr 18th 2005	53
my 2 cents	BabySoulRebel	Apr 18th 2005	56
lol @ the backpack brigade	fire	Apr 18th 2005	57
ya'll niggas kill me on this site	prettytony79	Apr 18th 2005	58
IT'S ASTOUNDING!	fire	Apr 18th 2005	61
exactly	prettytony79	Apr 18th 2005	62
you really want to do that?	k_orr	Apr 18th 2005	63
it's bigger than multi-syllables	fire	Apr 18th 2005	65
well plenty of cats will say i've been influenced by big	k_orr	Apr 18th 2005	68
that's just the nice thing to say "I loved BIG"	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	77
RE: well plenty of cats will say i've been influenced by big	fire	Apr 18th 2005	80
nas' influence was flow, big's was subject matter	buildingblock	Apr 18th 2005	94
RE: nas' influence was flow, big's was subject matter	tomtomorrow	Apr 18th 2005	188
a lot of people say big cause it's the pc thing to do	Jumpin On Hoes Like Mario From	Apr 18th 2005	81
egg-zack-lee	Jagunjagun	Apr 18th 2005	100
so true.. preach!	Ascension	Apr 18th 2005	113
i'm a singer, what the fuck am i gaining from biggie up c.w?	fire	Apr 18th 2005	144
well it makes you look more hip-hop for one	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	163
Ya'll niggas done lost your fuckin' minds	prettytony79	Apr 19th 2005	231
well, if not doing something qualifies as "losing your fucking mind"....	Stringer Bell	May 01st 2005	259
RE: IT'S ASTOUNDING!	M.C. Escher	Apr 18th 2005	99
i am not "backpacker",...	NYC upt JUX	Apr 18th 2005	64
RE: So is Biggie really the best Mc from New York?	DJOrion	Apr 18th 2005	73
like I said before...	prettytony79	Apr 18th 2005	74
this post exposes okayplayer.	Guinness	Apr 18th 2005	76
exposes okayplayer as what?	Jumpin On Hoes Like Mario From	Apr 18th 2005	78
Life After Death	prettytony79	Apr 19th 2005	234
ain't nobody say he couldn't sell records shit Puffy is a great A&R	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	79
new yorkers that RAPPED* as well as BIG (in the historical context):	Torez	Apr 18th 2005	83
jay isn't as popular and charismatic?	Jumpin On Hoes Like Mario From	Apr 18th 2005	85
dang, yeah, throw jay in their, too...	Torez	Apr 18th 2005	89
so now the masses make someone great but these same masses	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	91
yes, ENDURING popularity matters....	Torez	Apr 18th 2005	104
this nigga speakin the truth	Mastermind12	Apr 18th 2005
this nigga speakin the truth	Mastermind12	Apr 18th 2005	116
RE: yes, ENDURING popularity matters....	tomtomorrow	Apr 18th 2005	193
THIS POST IS OFFICIALLY THEE FUCK OVER	fire	Apr 18th 2005	86
so this makes Pac the greatest?	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	88
yeah that would make pac the best ever	Jumpin On Hoes Like Mario From	Apr 18th 2005	90
dude, vanilla ice stopped being popular almost as soon	Torez	Apr 18th 2005	105
only chicks think like this	loopdigga	Apr 18th 2005	96
were u birthed by a man, womanhater?	fire	Apr 18th 2005	101
charisma is mostly vocal...BIG IS UGLY IN VIDEOS, DAWG....	Torez	Apr 18th 2005	107
lol@him thinking its cuz biggie is a sex symbol!	fire	Apr 18th 2005	112
that's why charisma is just a&r talk.	loopdigga	Apr 18th 2005	115
dude listen to PARISH SMITH RAP and listen to METH rap...	Torez	Apr 18th 2005	122
so explain how wack parrish smith??	loopdigga	Apr 18th 2005	138
epmd don't have four classic albums to me. the have two.	Torez	Apr 18th 2005	145
we just feel different shit , nothing wrong with that	loopdigga	Apr 18th 2005	156
parrish?....ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!??!	fire	Apr 18th 2005	125
right? he could'a at least said ERIC SERMON....	Torez	Apr 18th 2005	131
Parrish is better than Erick	Organ	Apr 19th 2005	228
dont suprise me one bit you dont like EPMD	loopdigga	Apr 18th 2005	140
I FUCKING LOVE EPMD IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1	fire	Apr 18th 2005	147
stupid bitch show me where I wrote pmd was better than big	loopdigga	Apr 18th 2005	149
MOTHER MADE YA, MOTHERFUCK YA	fire	Apr 18th 2005	153
cosign	The Damaja	Apr 18th 2005	130
so tells the truth the real reason he is best of all time and KONY is......	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	87
cats wacker than BIG puff tried to blow up:	Torez	Apr 18th 2005	106
I'm not saying he wasn't good he was above average but not GOAT at all	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	166
how you gonna say Kane wasnt as charismatic as Big?	Ascension	Apr 18th 2005	110
kane wasn't as funny and didn't tell stories as good.	Torez	Apr 18th 2005	123
i am so in love w/u today	fire	Apr 18th 2005	148
you have no clue what charismatic means..but ima tell you	Ascension	Apr 18th 2005	174
biggie's "charisma" = puffy	Basaglia	Apr 18th 2005	119
VOCAL charisma, dude...ON THE MIC charisma	Torez	Apr 18th 2005	129
please...lotta dudes got "vocal" charisma...he had puff's hype	Basaglia	Apr 19th 2005	252
lauryn hill is ALSO not from ny	hateration	Apr 18th 2005	146
yes	haji rana pinya	Apr 18th 2005	92
i call these white boy posts...aka whos the best?	RamXL	Apr 18th 2005	95
Chuuuuuch..Amen on that.	Ascension	Apr 18th 2005	114
pac was loved more cuz he was "pretty"?!? what the fuck?	sugababy	Apr 18th 2005	157
i'd argue with that	RamXL	Apr 18th 2005	162
have you ever actually talked to these human beings?	sugababy	Apr 18th 2005	181
uhm	RamXL	Apr 18th 2005	187
okay, so lets take these same folk and ask them about big	sugababy	Apr 18th 2005	191
was it cause of his music tho?	RamXL	Apr 18th 2005	194
u keep talkin, but aint sayin shit	sugababy	Apr 18th 2005	197
i refuse to make this into a big vs pac poast	RamXL	Apr 18th 2005	208
looks at post 95 blinks	sugababy	Apr 18th 2005	216
i thought post 16 was the origination of the topic	RamXL	Apr 18th 2005	218
you about to be dumb	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	168
please money	RamXL	Apr 18th 2005	172
respectable young ladies, like myself, love jay and he OOGLAY	sugababy	Apr 18th 2005	182
ha	RamXL	Apr 18th 2005	189
I GOT YO SUGAPLUM RIGHT CHEA	sugababy	Apr 18th 2005	195
you're misunderstanding me	RamXL	Apr 18th 2005	203
blinks	sugababy	Apr 18th 2005	217
at this real subjective crap you pull	Menphyel7	Apr 19th 2005	220
RE: please money	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	183
dude pac had 3x the number of albums big did	RamXL	Apr 18th 2005	192
"Hut 1, hut 2, hut 3, HUT! Old Dirty Bastard live and uncut..."	Frank Longo	Apr 18th 2005	97
"open YOUR eyes and realize aint no sugar in my tank	RamXL	Apr 18th 2005	102
im shocked and appauled by this thread	haji rana pinya	Apr 18th 2005	103
"Dude bought the East Back, You Better Believe That..."	GdChil1	Apr 18th 2005	108
dude did not singlehandedly bring the East back	Organ	Apr 19th 2005	241
Co-Sign	TomTillett2004	Apr 18th 2005	118
PREACH UP IN THIS MUFUCKA, PREACH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!	fire	Apr 18th 2005	132
there needs to be an age prerequisite for this post.	Ascension	Apr 18th 2005	109
son... u just made aquafina shoot out my nose..	My_SP1200_Broken_Again	Apr 18th 2005	111
i agree with a lot of this	haji rana pinya	Apr 18th 2005	117
RE: i agree with a lot of this	My_SP1200_Broken_Again	Apr 18th 2005	120
the fuck outta here with that crybaby shit	buildingblock	Apr 18th 2005	127
and your point is (about the underground falling off)?	Ascension	Apr 18th 2005	185
I'M OLDER THAN YOU	fire	Apr 18th 2005	126
no you aint. either.	Ascension	Apr 18th 2005	177
well if it aint the son of a prostitute talking	fire	Apr 19th 2005	222
now you sayin you my mama now?!?!	Ascension	Apr 19th 2005	224
guarantee im older than u	stattic	Apr 18th 2005	128
nope.	Ascension	Apr 18th 2005	178
do tell, how old are u?	stattic	Apr 18th 2005	201
he's posting from his high school computer lab, stattic	fire	Apr 19th 2005	233
im 28 years old fire ... your the one who never logs off this site so..	Ascension	Apr 19th 2005	254
i'm older than you, captain....	Torez	Apr 18th 2005	136
so respecting old school is being nostalgic....how lame.	Ascension	Apr 18th 2005	169
I've noticed something about heads	BabySoulRebel	Apr 18th 2005	134
nostalgia is key, but really, the only people	Torez	Apr 18th 2005	139
According to you I guess.....	BabySoulRebel	Apr 18th 2005	151
interesting point about how much good hip hop was out	k_orr	Apr 18th 2005	150
AIIYYOOOO!!!	BabySoulRebel	Apr 18th 2005	154
I say Crunk as we know it now started with Triple 6....	DJ Contact	Apr 18th 2005	213
Triple 6 was the begining of Crunk as we know it...nm	urbgriot	May 01st 2005	263
SHIT AINT NOSTALGIC	fire	Apr 18th 2005	152
Fire I appreciate your candor	BabySoulRebel	Apr 18th 2005	155
yeah, i'm the only one that loves biggie	fire	Apr 18th 2005	160
Don't put words in my mouth	BabySoulRebel	Apr 18th 2005	161
i knew that it was my opinion when i typed it, no need 2 remind me	fire	Apr 19th 2005	225
off one classic + one inconsistant album...please GTFOHWTB	Ascension	Apr 18th 2005	180
quality>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>quantity	fire	Apr 19th 2005	227
Maybe so	BabySoulRebel	Apr 19th 2005	230
it didn't need to play out though	fire	Apr 19th 2005	236
You have your opinion	BabySoulRebel	Apr 19th 2005	244
see, BIG had a vocal drum kit	The Damaja	Apr 18th 2005	141
Never really broke it down to the technical	BabySoulRebel	Apr 18th 2005	158
RE: see, BIG had a vocal drum kit	k_orr	Apr 18th 2005	159
RE: see, BIG had a vocal drum kit	The Damaja	Apr 18th 2005	167
ARGGGH	RamXL	Apr 18th 2005	165
Makevli 7 day theory.....took 2 unkown producers got them in the studio ...	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	173
first this is about the east coast and big	RamXL	Apr 18th 2005	176
Pac is from the east, same way Luda is from Illinois	k_orr	Apr 18th 2005	179
i hear a crazy midwest influence in luda's shit tho...	RamXL	Apr 18th 2005	206
Co-sign, all that fast spittin is straight Chi Town...	DJ Contact	Apr 18th 2005	214
yall realize a gang of fast spitters are in the south right	Menphyel7	Apr 19th 2005	246
That may be true, but listen to how he spits it....	DJ Contact	Apr 20th 2005	257
RE: first this is about the east coast and big	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	186
i guess we agree to disagree, cause you aint comin with science	RamXL	Apr 18th 2005	204
RE: first this is about the east coast and big	BarTek	Apr 18th 2005	207
but too much energy must convert back to potential	RamXL	Apr 18th 2005	209
RE: i hafta agree...	BarTek	Apr 18th 2005	210
we can bring out lyrics/poetry what you want and Pac would kill BIG	Menphyel7	Apr 19th 2005	221
navajoes creep me in they teepee	fire	Apr 19th 2005	238
ever seen a crackhead that's eternal Fire	Menphyel7	Apr 19th 2005	247
So when yall diss mcs for average/above average lyrics of sex, mudere an...	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	170
state your year of birth, youngin	RamXL	Apr 18th 2005	175
nigga please	Menphyel7	Apr 18th 2005	190
Truth.	Ascension	Apr 18th 2005	196
it's always fun when people play trumps with their birth certificates	The Damaja	Apr 18th 2005	198
pac's lyrics werent all that	Richard Ulysses Lust	Apr 18th 2005	205
exactly	fire	Apr 19th 2005	239
please to the both of yall	Menphyel7	Apr 19th 2005	242
Bushwick Bill said it best in XXL	BabySoulRebel	Apr 19th 2005	245
thank you	Menphyel7	Apr 19th 2005	248
You lost me when you said Pac	Melanism	Apr 19th 2005	226
IMO, the highest you can talk about Big is #4...	DJ Contact	Apr 18th 2005	215
Big Daddy Kane is definitely not in the top 3	prettytony79	Apr 19th 2005	240
cats kill me w/ arguing a point..but not having any basis to go on	Ascension	Apr 19th 2005	250
he has two good LP's...	prettytony79	Apr 20th 2005	255
"look what you made me do, brains blew....	RamXL	Apr 18th 2005	219
you right its like Jay and Nas mention one mention the other	Menphyel7	Apr 19th 2005	223
The bottom line is...	prettytony79	Apr 19th 2005	237
This means what exactly?	BabySoulRebel	Apr 19th 2005	249
uh maybe they wanted to make money?	Menphyel7	Apr 19th 2005	251
well put BIG on Wild Pitch and yall be like "that dude was underrated"	Menphyel7	Apr 19th 2005	253
RE: So is Biggie really the best Mc from New York?	TekniqTheFreak	May 01st 2005	261
lol @ the bandwagon	Dr Claw	May 01st 2005	262

farbod
Member since Dec 12th 2002
4153 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 10:21 PM

1. "I've heard the name Big L used in the same sentence"
In response to Reply # 0

-------
www.geographic-north.com

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
Charter member
57012 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 10:37 PM

2. "the top 10 list of all time is all new york mcs..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Apr-17-05 10:37 PM by My_SP1200_Broken_Aga

..biggie is late in that list ..hell naw he aint top 5 ..u crazy??

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ne_atl
Charter member
18873 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 09:21 AM

49. "really?"
In response to Reply # 2

___________________________________
http://instagram.com/mrellsberry

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
Charter member
57012 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 09:31 AM

51. "who snuck in outta state?"
In response to Reply # 49

...com?? no ...cube?? no ...andre? no ...scarface? no

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 09:45 AM

52. "Scarface for sure"
In response to Reply # 51

And maybe 2Pac, Andre, and Cube.

Name 10 New York MC's who are better, not only in terms of skills on the mic but also material.

Because while someone like Big L is certainly a top 10 all-time if we're just talking about talent, he didn't have the discography of a Cube or Scarface or Andre.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
Charter member
57012 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 10:11 AM

59. "RE: Scarface for sure"
In response to Reply # 52

>And maybe 2Pac, Andre, and Cube.
>
>Name 10 New York MC's who are better, not only in terms of
>skills on the mic but also material

Rakim
KRS
Kane
G Rap
Posdnuos
Slick Rick
Nas
Biggie
Ghost
Redman
Masta Ace
Big L
Gza
Chuck D

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 10:14 AM

60. "Masta Ace over Cube and Scarface?"
In response to Reply # 59

Alright then.

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
Charter member
57012 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 10:32 AM

66. "masta ace aside then.."
In response to Reply # 60

...and ace is better than face & cube man, no diss to them, but ace is better

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 10:47 AM

69. "No way"
In response to Reply # 66

Cube has "Straight Outta Compton", "Death Certificate", and "Amerikkka's Most Wanted". Ace doesn't even have one album touching any of those, let alone three.

Plus, Cube has influenced a whole generation of West Coast artists. Ace can't touch him there either.

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
Charter member
57012 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 10:54 AM

71. "i said ace aside.."
In response to Reply # 69

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 11:32 AM

82. "lol at this lost cause"
In response to Reply # 69

give it up

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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hateration
Charter member
6901 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:19 PM

124. "y'all ny cats are gonna stop claiming redman dammit"
In response to Reply # 59

he's from NEWARK, NEW JERSEY

he only says it or makes reference to it on every verse he's ever dropped

greedy muthaf^ckas

www.highergroundonline.com

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
Charter member
57012 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 06:33 PM

212. "RE: y'all ny cats are gonna stop claiming redman dammit"
In response to Reply # 124

>he's from NEWARK, NEW JERSEY
>
>he only says it or makes reference to it on every verse he's
>ever dropped
>
>greedy muthaf^ckas

tri state = ny to these outta towners tho.. u and me know better..

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queenisisdivine
Charter member
7138 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 09:12 AM

232. "I almost totally agree with this list"
In response to Reply # 59

>Rakim
>KRS
>Kane
>G Rap
>Posdnuos
>Slick Rick
>Nas
>Biggie
>Ghost
>Redman
>Masta Ace
>Big L
>Gza
>Chuck D

current bylines -->
*sister2sister magazine march issue owav page 69
*baltimore city paper vol.26 No.6 soundtracks section wordsworth mirror music

i listen to
www.mountainhighradio.com

www.hiphopheadz.blogspot.com

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Jumpin On Hoes Like Mario From
Member since Mar 11th 2005
68 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 10:38 PM

3. "Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, KRS-One, Chuck D, Melle Mel"
In response to Reply # 0

Masta Ace, Nas. Nah, he's not the best MC NY has ever produced. By My accounts, not even top 3. Top 10 yeah.

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Innocent Criminal
Member since May 03rd 2003
14588 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 10:38 PM

4. "Top 10 I would say, not 3 or number 1."
In response to Reply # 0

________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

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javi222
Member since Jun 14th 2003
4375 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 10:39 PM

5. "cosign..."
In response to Reply # 4

... Biggie is nice, but lets not overrate...

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stattic
Charter member
29791 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 10:41 PM

6. "what's the point of this question?"
In response to Reply # 0

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k_orr
Charter member
80197 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 11:06 PM

16. "to get an answer"
In response to Reply # 6

I was in the car today, and my SO was talking about Pac, and it occurred to me that they put Biggie of all people, up against Pac for the GOAT.

To me it's a mismatch for a lot of reasons, but since I dont' want to turn this into a "I hate Tupac" post - I wondered if folks on the east coast really think that Biggie is the best rapper that came out of NYC.

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stattic
Charter member
29791 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 11:18 PM

18. "it's a mismatch b/c biggie was that much better?"
In response to Reply # 16
Sun Apr-17-05 11:37 PM by stattic

i dont really get the love for Tupac. I mean he seemed like a pretty shitty person who had a large hand in instigating one of the worst periods in hip-hop....but that's just my opinion.

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k_orr
Charter member
80197 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 11:33 PM

"which is why I don't want to discuss the Pac angle"

But is Biggie the best the NYC has to offer?

Is that the general EAST COAST consensus?

That's all the question asks for.

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stattic
Charter member
29791 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 11:39 PM

24. "i dont know, i think he would have ended up being the best"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Apr-17-05 11:40 PM by stattic

but it's hard to say.....everyone has different criteria and he only put out 2 albums, but when I think of his top performances, I think he put all the elements together better than any other emcee from NYC or period

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The Rapture7
Member since Mar 03rd 2005
5933 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 09:59 AM

55. "RE: Is that the general EAST COAST consensus?"
In response to Reply # 0

nope. The general consensus is that the debate still rages, but he is definitely a luminary. Sorry, if it's a lil' vague, but after the million debates I've been in on the topic, this seems to be most accurate.

http://twitter.com/TheCoOp420
http://twitter.com/TheRapture
http://twitter.com/MoneyStax

http://theco-opconscienceoperations.bandcamp.com

http://themuthafuckinrapture.bandcamp.com

http://itsaviciouscycle.bandcamp.com

http://i51.photobucket.com/album

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 11:36 AM

84. "ya know what I notice for mofos who say the mainstream loves Pac"
In response to Reply # 0

not for his music but for his image.

The same mofos hate Pac not for his music but for his image.

oh shit he was so igrorant and stupid. his lyrics was subpar. He killed Biggie, started east coast vs. west coast. Biggie lyrics was super he brought something new.

Listen to 10 crack commemedents than "white manz world"

and am Baffled??????????

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 06:49 AM

39. "its a mismatch for real.....but you know when it comes to BIG"
In response to Reply # 16

Logic and sense goes out the fucken window.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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k_orr
Charter member
80197 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 10:50 AM

70. "basically"
In response to Reply # 39

And what kills me, is that some of these folks are allegedly conscious.

Big never did a Brenda's Having a Baby

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 11:17 AM

75. "and all his singles played it safe the reason we have"
In response to Reply # 70

"the club single" the girl single.

he nevered tried to release a So many tears, brenda had a baby, keep ya head up, trapped.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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Jagunjagun
Member since Jul 28th 2003
1568 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 12:32 PM

98. ""Sky's The Limit" n/m"
In response to Reply # 75

--------
"when i see his ass on tv lookin like a broke jadakiss i take it personal..."
- fwmj on Young Jeezy.

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stattic
Charter member
29791 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:15 PM

121. "RE: basically"
In response to Reply # 70

>And what kills me, is that some of these folks are allegedly
>conscious.
>
>Big never did a Brenda's Having a Baby

i didn't know consciousness was a necessary component of a great emcee

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:41 PM

137. "biggie mentioned his mothers breast cancer"
In response to Reply # 121

there, now he's concious.

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k_orr
Charter member
80197 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:47 PM

143. "you take the comment 2 ways"
In response to Reply # 121

1) it's hypocritical for conscious heads to put ol boy on top when did nothing conscious.

or

2) his content was limited to the standard hip hop party and bullshit topics. Unlike Kane, Jay, Chuck, Rakim, et cetera.

If topical range is not a category, but subject matter is....

Either way, the point still stands.

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stattic
Charter member
29791 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 06:07 PM

200. "#1 doesn't apply to me and #2 would be true if topical range"
In response to Reply # 143

was comprised only of hip-hop bullshit and consciousness. Fortunately you can have songs that fall into neither. Also, you could easily argue that "Brenda's Having a Baby" is typical hip-hop bullshit because plenty of other rappers have discussed the ills of growing up in the inner city and their songs (see "the message"), so that category is a little bit confusing to begin with. Also, how would Jay have wide topical range and Biggie wouldn't?

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k_orr
Charter member
80197 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 06:32 PM

211. "by sheer virtue of having 9 albums vs 2."
In response to Reply # 200

He's talked about a lot more stuff than Biggie, so that takes care of breadth.

Whatever Biggie mentioned, Jay has had the opportunity to take the idea and go in depth.

Tis not rocket science.

Does range beat skill(assuming that Biggie was nicer skill wise)?

It depends on how you weight them.

one
k. orr

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stattic
Charter member
29791 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 10:59 AM

243. "RE: by sheer virtue of having 9 albums vs 2."
In response to Reply # 211

>He's talked about a lot more stuff than Biggie, so that takes
>care of breadth.
>
>Whatever Biggie mentioned, Jay has had the opportunity to take
>the idea and go in depth.
>
>Tis not rocket science.

that's really fucking weak

>Does range beat skill(assuming that Biggie was nicer skill
>wise)?
>
>It depends on how you weight them.

u just answered ur question about the consensus, this question never had to be posed

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Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 10:42 PM

7. "top 3, sure."
In response to Reply # 0

him, ra and jay.

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Jagunjagun
Member since Jul 28th 2003
1568 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 10:46 PM

8. "Why is this still being asked?"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Apr-17-05 10:48 PM by Jagunjagun

The only reason he's called #1 was because he was the biggest MC at the time and died in his prime. From what I recall, niggas wasn't callin him the best before he passed, and even today only a minority of people that listen to a wide variety of hiphop--past and present--think he's KONY or GOAT in the lyrical sense.

The Verdict - if #1 status is measured by popularity, influence and martyrdom, he's most definitely KONY and #2 to Tupac as GOAT.

If #1 status is determined purely by skills and classic output, Poppa ain't even in the top 5.

--------
"when i see his ass on tv lookin like a broke jadakiss i take it personal..."
- fwmj on Young Jeezy.

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Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 10:58 PM

11. "classic output?"
In response to Reply # 8

other than mc hood, no rapper's ratio of classics:songs is comparable to frank whizza. shit, about 80% of "ready to die" is certified.

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18653 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 11:06 PM

15. "Nas's 1st two albums > B.I.G.'s 1st two albums"
In response to Reply # 11

Would Biggie have fallen off like Nas did(for awhile), or could he have kept it up? It's sad that we didn't get to find out. But, if you just limit it to the first two albums, I think Nas has Biggie beat and so do a few others(Kane, Rakim).

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Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 11:36 PM

21. "maybe."
In response to Reply # 15

but that doesn't mean nas was a better emcee. he clearly isn't.

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Jagunjagun
Member since Jul 28th 2003
1568 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 11:41 PM

26. "He's a better lyricist n/m"
In response to Reply # 21

>but that doesn't mean nas was a better emcee. he clearly
>isn't.

--------
"when i see his ass on tv lookin like a broke jadakiss i take it personal..."
- fwmj on Young Jeezy.

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Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 11:50 PM

28. "agreed."
In response to Reply # 26

although once on badboy, biggie never had moments of lyrical ineptitude rivaling "hot boys" or "you wanna be me".

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18653 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 12:09 AM

30. "but that's part of my point"
In response to Reply # 28

During the time that Biggie was alive, Nas never came wack either. If Biggie didn't die, who knows how the rest of his career would have went? How many rappers haven't put out some subpar shit at some point(usually after a few albums) in their careers?

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
Charter member
57012 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 10:36 AM

67. "life after death tho.. was mad filler..."
In response to Reply # 11

..that aint the sign of a champ

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Clash Sic
Member since Jan 05th 2003
27000 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 10:48 PM

9. "The people of New York City vote yes"
In response to Reply # 0

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sosa
Charter member
9375 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 10:49 PM

10. "he's top 10 but not #1"
In response to Reply # 0

i would say he's around #6 or 7.

History wise he'll be looked as #1 or top 5 out of nyc. brought the east coast back. had the girls/street songs. epic battle of biggie vs pac. torch/formula passed to jigga. yadda yadda ya

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Grand_Styles
Charter member
11706 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 10:59 PM

12. "Notorious B.I.G. Waz Never An Emcee Juz A Popular Rapper"
In response to Reply # 0

Don't give good titlez to people who don't or never deserved it, to me he never earned da right to be called an emcee cauze he wazn't diverze in rhymin'. So what he started clothing, spendin' money type trendz, & rap topicz of being classy in rap songz.....blah blah blah, he still wazn't worthy. Yes he had some classicz & got and getz play in clubz everywhere but so do da worzt party clazzikz, what'z so special about dat?

Anyway, him being da most popular "rapper" in NYC, he probably iz but NYC only callz him dat cauze malez & femalez both loved hiz songz juz az much az they loved "rapper" Tupac (yes I don't like him eitha & he'z not an emcee eitha).

Peace & Pizza Greaze!

Anotha Keyztylebonic Vizion Prezentation!

http://myspace.com/GrandStyleDecypher
http://soundclick.com/GrandStylezlistenstation
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/halftimewnyu The Halftime Show (Wednesdays 10:30pm-1:00am)

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prettytony79
Member since Oct 19th 2004
1754 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 11:04 PM

14. "GTFOHWTBS"
In response to Reply # 12

Biggie help put NYC back on the map after the west coast took over shit. Give credit where it's due. God bless.

"90 min maxell tapes/ instrumental breaks/ bangin' ear aches/ lay my verse down in two takes..." Ghostface

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Grand_Styles
Charter member
11706 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 11:32 PM

19. "How Come Ice Cube, Tupac, & Ice T. Can Claim Da West Coast?"
In response to Reply # 14

Aren't theze three rapperz all frum New Jersey, it'z amazin' dat people feel dat NYC lost respect durin' dat time when Dr.Orchestrate'z funkadelic sound waz gettin' play everywhere. I really never dug da soundz but didn't underground hip-hop best emceez & songz came out durin' dat same period & after dat Puffy & Biggie had da jiggy shyt out underground hip-hop still had da best sound ta date?

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TomTillett2004
Member since Feb 27th 2004
424 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 11:36 PM

22. "RE: How Come Ice Cube, Tupac, & Ice T. Can Claim Da West Coast?"
In response to Reply # 19

Who had the best sound to date?
_____________________________
You don�t think that America is the land of the Free? Well, where else could Michael Jackson be born a poor black boy in Iowa and Die a rich white man in Cali?

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stattic
Charter member
29791 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 11:37 PM

23. "ice cube was born in cali"
In response to Reply # 19

tupac decided he was from there after biggie locked up ny

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Jagunjagun
Member since Jul 28th 2003
1568 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 11:45 PM

27. "what about Ice T?"
In response to Reply # 23

n/m

--------
"when i see his ass on tv lookin like a broke jadakiss i take it personal..."
- fwmj on Young Jeezy.

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stattic
Charter member
29791 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 06:09 PM

202. "he was born in jerz"
In response to Reply # 27

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 06:52 AM

40. "yall kill me with this BIG brought the east back"
In response to Reply # 14

like Wu, onyx, naughty, BCC didn't fucken exist.

Puffy has done a job on yall NY mofos.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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prettytony79
Member since Oct 19th 2004
1754 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 09:55 AM

54. "I'm not saying that they didn't exist but..."
In response to Reply # 40

>like Wu, onyx, naughty, BCC didn't fucken exist.
>
>Puffy has done a job on yall NY mofos.

in the music biz, it's all about moving units. ONYX went platinum on a gimmick. The Wu didn't go platinum until a year after the album dropped. By then B.I.G. had shit on lock in the east coast. As far as BCC goes, although I love'em, they didn't generate a buzz across the country. Them niggas was local celebrities.

"90 min maxell tapes/ instrumental breaks/ bangin' ear aches/ lay my verse down in two takes..." Ghostface

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
Charter member
57012 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 12:07 PM

93. "exactly... someone sees the light..."
In response to Reply # 40
Mon Apr-18-05 12:08 PM by My_SP1200_Broken_Aga

...hip hop was great BEFORE biggie ...and he didnt make it better overall ...big is just another great ny MC, and yeah there are greats before him and mayeb a few after

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:50 PM

171. "None of those had the national impact "Ready To Die" did"
In response to Reply # 40
Mon Apr-18-05 04:51 PM by CMcMurtry

As far as hit singles and album sales. BCC? Black Moon's album is a classic to be sure, but it didn't even go gold. Even Wu-Tang wasn't as big a hit as we'd like to think as it took over 6 months to go gold.

Onyx was the closest.

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DJPrimetime
Member since Feb 06th 2003
8416 posts

Sun May-01-05 06:32 PM

260. "How can you compare this?"
In response to Reply # 171

Biggie had PUFFY behind him and major label support ... Black Moon didn't have any of this ... I love reading your posts, because you are the first to pull out SALES as the measure of most MC's. Black Moon NEVER had the chance Biggie did to blow up from day one .. and I'm a HUGE fan of BCC, but the support system wasn't there ... shit even their distro wasn't that good.
Biggie was making tracks for the streets and the ladies (big poppa / juicy) ... BCC was having NONE of that.

>As far as hit singles and album sales. BCC? Black Moon's
>album is a classic to be sure, but it didn't even go gold.
>Even Wu-Tang wasn't as big a hit as we'd like to think as it
>took over 6 months to go gold.
>
>Onyx was the closest.

*NEW* - DJ PRIMETIME PRESENTS:
THE FORMULA VOLUME 3 MIXTAPE -
HOSTED BY TREK LIFE!!!
http://primetime.statikk.net

SESION31 - The Forumla Hip Hop Radio Show Sunday 1-3PM EST LIVE
http://www.radiovolta.org/

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TomTillett2004
Member since Feb 27th 2004
424 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 11:33 PM

20. "Flag on the play..."
In response to Reply # 12

>Don't give good titlez to people who don't or never deserved
>it, to me he never earned da right to be called an emcee cauze
>he wazn't diverze in rhymin'.

Damn man, how can you even say that shit? I can understand that you might not like Big, or you think he is overated, but atleast come w/ somthing acurate. I'm only going to go threw a few but any fan of his can go threw and give you alot more: BIG'S STYLES

1. Gimmie the Loot - Classic example of Biggie showing somthing original, the way he does both parts is mint, it took me a while to even make this connection. THIS IS ORIGINAL SHIT

2. Big Poppa / Juicy - The last two songs recorded for Ready to Die. These were songs that Biggie didn't even want to record b/c he thought that it would not be played by cats in Brooklyn. Puff got him to do it and he mannaged to keep his style and make hits. This is a great example of Biggies diversity, he was able to be an buisness man and switch it up from hardcore rap to some shit for the radio / girls.

3. Sucidial Thoughts - This is an example of Biggie giving people a strait up record with no bull shit watered down shit. Biggie talks some honest shit on that track. It is a great example of an artist getting in the booth and just flowing. Respect this 1 right here.

4. I got a Story to Tell / Part and Bull Shit - Biggie taking the listener threw some Slick Rick story telling shit right here. Every detail Big paints it in you head.

Respect the man. He IS the best to ever do it.

_____________________________
You don�t think that America is the land of the Free? Well, where else could Michael Jackson be born a poor black boy in Iowa and Die a rich white man in Cali?

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TomTillett2004
Member since Feb 27th 2004
424 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 02:23 AM

34. "^^^UP^^^"
In response to Reply # 20

How come no 1 commments on my ish? Big is getting no love up on here
_____________________________
You don�t think that America is the land of the Free? Well, where else could Michael Jackson be born a poor black boy in Iowa and Die a rich white man in Cali?

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 06:56 AM

41. "RE: Flag on the play..."
In response to Reply # 20

>>Don't give good titlez to people who don't or never
>deserved
>>it, to me he never earned da right to be called an emcee
>cauze
>>he wazn't diverze in rhymin'.
>
>Damn man, how can you even say that shit? I can understand
>that you might not like Big, or you think he is overated, but
>atleast come w/ somthing acurate. I'm only going to go threw a
>few but any fan of his can go threw and give you alot more:
>BIG'S STYLES
>
>1. Gimmie the Loot - Classic example of Biggie showing
>somthing original, the way he does both parts is mint, it took
>me a while to even make this connection. THIS IS ORIGINAL
>SHIT
Pac did this with Pappa story's and some people didn't recgonize it was Pac and the story was about something not just robbing
>
>2. Big Poppa / Juicy - The last two songs recorded for Ready
>to Die. These were songs that Biggie didn't even want to
>record b/c he thought that it would not be played by cats in
>Brooklyn. Puff got him to do it and he mannaged to keep his
>style and make hits. This is a great example of Biggies
>diversity, he was able to be an buisness man and switch it up
>from hardcore rap to some shit for the radio / girls.

Big POppa came from a thing OUtkast did in their concerts and you right this was PUffy, you get outkast hook, a nice sample and anyone cable of writing 16 bars and you got a hit. HE is a great mc but come on now when jigga does this yall say he sold out don't give Biggie a pass

>3. Sucidial Thoughts - This is an example of Biggie giving
>people a strait up record with no bull shit watered down shit.
>Biggie talks some honest shit on that track. It is a great
>example of an artist getting in the booth and just flowing.
>Respect this 1 right here.
my fav big Song but don't act like FAce ain't been doing songs like this.

>4. I got a Story to Tell / Part and Bull Shit - Biggie taking
>the listener threw some Slick Rick story telling shit right
>here. Every detail Big paints it in you head.
This is where BIG is best at but he still ain't nowhere near NAS storytelling level.

Big is not that diverse.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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Slimkiddrob
Member since Sep 03rd 2003
9147 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 11:01 PM

13. "The best that was murdered. n/m"
In response to Reply # 0

_______________________________________
"The recipe for a million dollars starts with 1 lb. of masa, so grab a Igloo and get on your grind. Rap isn't for everybody, so put the mic down and come be one of my tamale wrappers."
-Chingo Bling

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TomTillett2004
Member since Feb 27th 2004
424 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 11:16 PM

17. "Hate hate hate hate (c) Silkey Johnston"
In response to Reply # 0

I can't believe that some people on here are saying that Big is not even in the top 10 in New York?!?! To me Biggie Smalls is the best to ever do it, period. I can understand that not every one feels this way, but damn, not even in the top 10 NYC rappers? Biggie had an uncany abililty to blow people away w/ the freestyles he would kick on command, IMO he had more potential than Jay-Z did and he just never got to release an ammount of material for people to make that comparison. You can go back to the freestyles w/ DJ 50 Grand and hear why this cat came up so quick. All i'm trying to say is that I can understand that Biggie might not be alot of cats favorite rapper, but give respect where it is due.

We did it Brooklyn (c) Biggie Smalls
_____________________________
You don�t think that America is the land of the Free? Well, where else could Michael Jackson be born a poor black boy in Iowa and Die a rich white man in Cali?

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mistermaxxx
Member since Apr 14th 2003
25375 posts

Sun Apr-17-05 11:40 PM

25. "His story-telling Puts Him way up there"
In response to Reply # 0

you gotta rank him high just for the fact that not only was He presenting His own style but He also didn't let Puffy's Pop vibe wreck his flow.in fact it didn't cross contaminate like it appeared it might all the way through.Biggie was more flexible than most.He could rock styles¬ Miss a Beat.vibed off any Singer he worked with.but His story telling was His foundation that truly seperates Him from many IMO.

mistermaxxx

my favs
R.Kelly Michael Jackson Bee Gees Steely dan ,Lionel Richie, Stevie Wonder,Smokey Robinson Gladys Knight,Jackie wilson, Sam Cooke,
crusaders, Rick James, Shaq,EWF, Isley Brothers,Bobby Womack Tiger Woods Ba

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 06:57 AM

42. "so Nas would def be ahead since he is the better storyteller?"
In response to Reply # 25

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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hateration
Charter member
6901 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:38 PM

135. "is he? or did he just get a chance to tell more stories?"
In response to Reply # 42

www.highergroundonline.com

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:47 PM

142. "BIGGIE WAS FUNNY, NAS ISN'T, GAME OVER"
In response to Reply # 42

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:42 PM

164. "Since when is hip hop stand-up comedy?"
In response to Reply # 142

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 08:57 AM

229. "thats not what i said"
In response to Reply # 164

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 09:14 AM

235. "LOL so what did ya say then?"
In response to Reply # 229

That because Biggie was funnier, he's the better MC? I guess Luke from 2 Live Crew was better than Chuck D. huh.

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Wed Apr-20-05 02:42 PM

256. "nas was a storyteller, biggie was a funny storyteller"
In response to Reply # 235

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Wed Apr-20-05 03:28 PM

258. "and this somehow makes him better?"
In response to Reply # 256

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 05:06 PM

184. "ha ha come on now.....Suspect"
In response to Reply # 142

"I saw a bird say "yo he should have duck"

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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BISON CLASS of 97
Member since Oct 19th 2004
7295 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 12:03 AM

29. "No."
In response to Reply # 0

He ain't in the top 10 for all of NY. Not enough work or diversity of subject matter.

"I'm one of the world's great survivors. I'll always survive because I've got the right combination of wit, grit and bullshit."

© Don King

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Hitokiri
Charter member
22113 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 12:13 AM

31. "I really like Biggie but"
In response to Reply # 0

I just can't bring myself to saying he's one of the best ever, or even the best from New York... He just doesn't have enough material. Two great/good albums aren't enough to put you on that level...

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

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Cashish
Member since Feb 18th 2003
993 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 12:39 AM

32. "No, top 10"
In response to Reply # 0

but Rakim, KRS, and Jay are the top 3...

--------
"They treat me like LL for art
fucks" -SLUG

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Aeon
Charter member
43870 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 01:09 AM

33. "nope."
In response to Reply # 0

_

shakin your block with a 6 million dollar bop

_

www.davidevanmcdowell.com

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the unknockable hustle
Member since Mar 26th 2005
8070 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 02:59 AM

35. "he's the best of all time... period!"
In response to Reply # 0

____________________________________________________________________
GET MONEY!

f l y n e s s b e y o n d r e f u t a b l e d i s c o u r s e

http://beatsandbeers.wordpress.com

Drokayplayer�

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Blackonbothsides
Member since Oct 18th 2004
1583 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:34 AM

36. "Nas is King of Newyork... always has been"
In response to Reply # 35

"Take the crown from the so called king and lock it down"--Nas Biggie diss

...................................
http://walkwitme.deviantart.com/
"You homo niggas gettin Aids in the ass while the hommay here tryna get paid in advance"~Lil Wayne
http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/ Lesbians are cool tho

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hateration
Charter member
6901 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:32 PM

133. "your reign on the top was short like leprechauns"
In response to Reply # 36

www.highergroundonline.com

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the unknockable hustle
Member since Mar 26th 2005
8070 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 05:58 PM

199. "basically... nas was done after kick in the door"
In response to Reply # 133

____________________________________________________________________
GET MONEY!

f l y n e s s b e y o n d r e f u t a b l e d i s c o u r s e

http://beatsandbeers.wordpress.com

Drokayplayer�

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Organ
Charter member
8739 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:37 AM

37. "No"
In response to Reply # 0

Knicks yo
Cowboys yo

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k_orr
Charter member
80197 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 06:46 AM

38. "12/22"
In response to Reply # 0

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braille
Member since Mar 09th 2004
4684 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 07:12 AM

43. "only on okayplayer would you get "big isn't even in the top 10&quot..."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Apr-18-05 07:13 AM by braille

y'all are on that good peyote or some shit. i'on't understand your perspectives on hip hop sometimes.

and to answer your question k_orr, in terms of output, impact, and strictly the catalouge?

it goes:

jay.
kane.
big.
ra.
and if we talking east coast, nas (if west, cube).

now you can move those four or five around, maybe subtract or add like krs, kool g, slick rick, etc.

but those are the big five. the one's mc's coast to coast want to be.

kane was my number one (on the fact that he was prolly the best overall mc till he fell off) until....prolly the second s. carter mixtape.

that's when it was solidified to me.

when big was alive, on the joints they did together (bk's finest, love the dough), jay was his equal. and jay catalouge of classics has increased drastically since then.

i would say jay is the best ny had to offer. (or any other place on the map for that matter) and i hold "ready to die" as my favorite album of all time. we can go song for song if those that disagree want.

*edit*: i should note that i'm from the midwest, so if this is strictly a tri state thing, then my opinions negated but the way people are talking in this shit provoked me to respond.

*IDEAS.*

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NYC upt JUX
Member since Dec 19th 2004
10130 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 09:18 AM

48. "the nigguh was/is overrated and is ..."
In response to Reply # 43

the main influence of every ignorant nigguh rhymin today. fuck em, yall nigguhs act like him and pac was malcolm x or marcus garvey. the said shit is most biggie fans dont know about either.

www.hiphopmusic.com

"What I don't like is Negro elders finally taking a stand for cultural ethics by way of Caucasian vomit. What this now shows young people is that white guilt is still more powerful than black unity." - Star

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Iltigo
Charter member
8609 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 07:15 AM

44. "top5 before he died"
In response to Reply # 0

in the tristate:

redman
ghostface
nas
jay
___________(fill in the blank)

jay surpassed big in success with vol. 2, and never looked back.

nas did as well. they all surpassed big. mainly becasue hip-hop grew.

listen to "i love the doe". imho, jay gets the best of big. if the song had 1 more verse, maybe big would have edged jay out. but he got him that time.

nas has ALWAYS been nice and in a league of his own

same for redman, but that is another post...
return to your home citizens

madagascar titties- (c) phontiggalo the rap jiggalo

I would never, ever hit a woman....but i'll beat a bitch (c) wifey

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 07:42 AM

45. "of all time?"
In response to Reply # 44

so what aobut
Kool G rap
Krs-one
RA
Chuck D

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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Iltigo
Charter member
8609 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 07:50 AM

46. "i meant of his time/era/generation"
In response to Reply # 45

didnt know you wee counting ALL TIME

then rakim,
BDK
chuck
g rap
krs
shit, pun (1st album not second)

i was thinking more along the lines of who was out when he got shot.
baiscally you had the wu, redman, and bootcamp.

return to your home citizens

madagascar titties- (c) phontiggalo the rap jiggalo

I would never, ever hit a woman....but i'll beat a bitch (c) wifey

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 08:35 AM

47. "nas wasn't hitting?"
In response to Reply # 46

>baiscally you had the wu, redman, and bootcamp.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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Iltigo
Charter member
8609 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 11:00 AM

72. "i have had a long history of hating on nas"
In response to Reply # 47

i explained it in 90s hiphop post, but i was never a fan until recently (God's son actually)

it tok that long to convert me.

but those were who i listened to and thought we the best

return to your home citizens

madagascar titties- (c) phontiggalo the rap jiggalo

I would never, ever hit a woman....but i'll beat a bitch (c) wifey

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bluetiger
Charter member
36728 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 09:22 AM

50. "Rakim, KRS, Slick Rick, Kool G Rap, Big Daddy Kane."
In response to Reply # 0

Biggie is later on in the list after those guys.....

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TurkeylegJenkins
Charter member
18021 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 09:51 AM

53. "To me, he's like 8th or 9th"
In response to Reply # 0

_______________________________________________________________________________

"Every potential genius in our culture grows up with the knowledge that if he tries to fully pursue his gifts he will likely be ostracized." -- OKP bshelly

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BabySoulRebel
Charter member
19232 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 10:01 AM

56. "my 2 cents"
In response to Reply # 0

Biggie was one of the best to come out of the Rotten Apple, but to say he is one of the overall GOAT is reaching because of his limited catalogue. He never had the time to build on his promising foundation. Not to say it was his fault, but he just didn't have the body of work built up over the years to compare to. And I don't count the posthumous album cuz most of it was recycled anyway.

here for dis.

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 10:03 AM

57. "lol @ the backpack brigade"
In response to Reply # 0

________________________________________
who gonna check me boo?!

www.twitter.com/firefire100
http://instagram.com/firefire100
www.philadelphiaeagles.com

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prettytony79
Member since Oct 19th 2004
1754 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 10:08 AM

58. "ya'll niggas kill me on this site"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Apr-18-05 10:11 AM by prettytony79

all these muthafuckas hatin' on B.I.G. like he ain't rip shit when he was here. That nigga laid the blueprint that half of these niggas is using now to go platinum. B.I.G. shifted the focus back to the east with the release of "Ready to Die" back in 94'. Not saying that Wu Tang Clan or Nas didn't make good albums around that time but lets be real. Muthafuckas weren't checking for the Wu when they first dropped and Nas with his five mic rating and all, still didn't make much of a dent outside the northeast. B.I.G. was worldwide. Ain't no king of New York because the king of New York died in 97'. I even fucked up because he ain't in my top 10 list. I got to apologize to B.I.G. for that era on my part.

my top ten list (with the appropriate correction)
01. Rakim
02. KRS-One
03. The Notorious B.I.G.
04. Nas
05. Jay-Z
06. Kool G Rap
07. 2 Pac
08. Big Daddy Kane
09. Common
10. Slick Rick/ Ghostface

"90 min maxell tapes/ instrumental breaks/ bangin' ear aches/ lay my verse down in two takes..." Ghostface

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 10:14 AM

61. "IT'S ASTOUNDING!"
In response to Reply # 58

i mean i really can't fucking believe this shit. people talking bout nas' lyrics .....please name the number of rappers that big influenced vs the # that nas influenced & that should DEAD the discussion....& don't even get me started on how big kept EVERY speaker bumping for the last decade

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prettytony79
Member since Oct 19th 2004
1754 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 10:17 AM

62. "exactly"
In response to Reply # 61

I love Nas shit. That's my nigga but he ain't fuckin' wit B.I.G. in no shape, form or fashion.

"90 min maxell tapes/ instrumental breaks/ bangin' ear aches/ lay my verse down in two takes..." Ghostface

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k_orr
Charter member
80197 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 10:19 AM

63. "you really want to do that?"
In response to Reply # 61

>i mean i really can't fucking believe this shit. people
>talking bout nas' lyrics .....please name the number of
>rappers that big influenced vs the # that nas influenced &
>that should DEAD the discussion

Cause it's not clear to me that Biggie's subject matter is that much more popular than Nas' multi-syllables. (cause Nas is the one that made it popular in recent years).

one
k. orr

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 10:28 AM

65. "it's bigger than multi-syllables"
In response to Reply # 63

it's about the number of rappers that u can find anywhere & u ask who their biggest influence AND whom the loved & listened to the most & almost every single one of those mc's have christopher wallace at the top of their list.

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k_orr
Charter member
80197 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 10:44 AM

68. "well plenty of cats will say i've been influenced by big"
In response to Reply # 65

But what counts is what they put on records.

So either you got names or you don't.

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 11:21 AM

77. "that's just the nice thing to say "I loved BIG""
In response to Reply # 68

but rap like Nas

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 11:26 AM

80. "RE: well plenty of cats will say i've been influenced by big"
In response to Reply # 68

>But what counts is what they put on records.
>
>So either you got names or you don't.

what people put on records is not necessarily what influenced them

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buildingblock
Charter member
100000 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 12:17 PM

94. "nas' influence was flow, big's was subject matter"
In response to Reply # 68

more people ran with nas' flow than big's flow, even though both were distinctive, i think bitin' big's was for some reason taboo, but takin' nas' was okay...maybe because it was a bit reminiscent of kool g rap's....

...a child is born with no state of mind, blind to the ways of mankind, god is smilin' on you and frownin' too, because only god knows what you gonna do...�melle mel

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tomtomorrow
Charter member
1215 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 05:11 PM

188. "RE: nas' influence was flow, big's was subject matter"
In response to Reply # 94
Mon Apr-18-05 05:13 PM by tomtomorrow

Very good point. Personally, I'd put him in the top ten. (as long as you ignore output)

Funnybook Babylon - We write the blog while Rome burns.

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Jumpin On Hoes Like Mario From
Member since Mar 11th 2005
68 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 11:28 AM

81. "a lot of people say big cause it's the pc thing to do"
In response to Reply # 65

it gets you that extra pr boost. let mc noname go on 106&park and say the rapper that influenced him the most was rakim. he'd get a bunch of blank stares and no votes. just say biggie, get your applause and be happy.

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Jagunjagun
Member since Jul 28th 2003
1568 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 12:39 PM

100. "egg-zack-lee"
In response to Reply # 81

n/m

--------
"when i see his ass on tv lookin like a broke jadakiss i take it personal..."
- fwmj on Young Jeezy.

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Ascension
Member since Aug 25th 2003
6616 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 01:49 PM

113. "so true.. preach!"
In response to Reply # 81

they dont hear ya tho.

Instagram: ascensionmusic

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:50 PM

144. "i'm a singer, what the fuck am i gaining from biggie up c.w?"
In response to Reply # 81

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:41 PM

163. "well it makes you look more hip-hop for one"
In response to Reply # 144

but I"m sure you geinuly love BIG and think he is the best you from NY.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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prettytony79
Member since Oct 19th 2004
1754 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 09:09 AM

231. "Ya'll niggas done lost your fuckin' minds"
In response to Reply # 81

the pc thing to do. Get lost with that bullshit.

"90 min maxell tapes/ instrumental breaks/ bangin' ear aches/ lay my verse down in two takes..." Ghostface

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Stringer Bell
Member since Mar 15th 2004
3175 posts

Sun May-01-05 03:08 PM

259. "well, if not doing something qualifies as "losing your fucking mind"...."
In response to Reply # 231
Sun May-01-05 03:09 PM by Stringer Bell

i'd say doing whatever that thing is is pc then, yes.

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M.C. Escher
Member since Apr 11th 2005
617 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 12:39 PM

99. "RE: IT'S ASTOUNDING!"
In response to Reply # 61
Mon Apr-18-05 12:40 PM by M.C. Escher

Why wouldn't everybody say BIG influenced them? He was one of the most popular rappers of the 90's...and rappers weren't JUST influenced by his lyrics, they were influenced by his image...of which Puff was responsible for. Same with Pac.

__________________________________

2006 Top 5:
1. J-Dilla - Donuts
2. Tanya Morgan - Moonlighting
3. Arts The Beatdoctor - Fragments EP
4. Madlib - Beat Conducta Vol. 1-2
5. Ghostface Killah - Fishscale

myspace.com/smallprofessor

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NYC upt JUX
Member since Dec 19th 2004
10130 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 10:22 AM

64. "i am not "backpacker",..."
In response to Reply # 0

i am a regular hood niguh. and he is not that great of an mc. but big is a good mc, just not great.

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DJOrion
Member since Apr 13th 2005
12 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 11:07 AM

73. "RE: So is Biggie really the best Mc from New York?"
In response to Reply # 0

I give that title to Nas, hands down.

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prettytony79
Member since Oct 19th 2004
1754 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 11:12 AM

74. "like I said before..."
In response to Reply # 73

the King of New York died in 97'.

"90 min maxell tapes/ instrumental breaks/ bangin' ear aches/ lay my verse down in two takes..." Ghostface

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Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 11:17 AM

76. "this post exposes okayplayer."
In response to Reply # 0

and that "who would make a good a&r" post should likewise be deleted before quest convinces jay to sign a bunch of spitkickers.

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Jumpin On Hoes Like Mario From
Member since Mar 11th 2005
68 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 11:22 AM

78. "exposes okayplayer as what?"
In response to Reply # 76

people who don't immediately cling to what xxl, the source, and mtv tell us who the greatest rappers are? or as people who wanna be so much against the grain that they'll ignore all common sense?

face it big is top ten in ny, not top 3 or number 1. Ready to Die was excellent, Life After Death was full of filler, Born Again...well.

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prettytony79
Member since Oct 19th 2004
1754 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 09:14 AM

234. "Life After Death"
In response to Reply # 78

was the first album I owned that balanced comercial shit with street shit perfectly. No other emcee was able to do that. Give you "Hypnotize" and also hit you with "The 10 Crack Commandments" on the same album. Shit, he even flipped the fast paced Bone flow alongside them cats on "Notorious Thugs". Niggas dislike B.I.G. because he actually sold albums. When you sell sale albums your credibility is thrown out the window.

"90 min maxell tapes/ instrumental breaks/ bangin' ear aches/ lay my verse down in two takes..." Ghostface

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 11:22 AM

79. "ain't nobody say he couldn't sell records shit Puffy is a great A&R"
In response to Reply # 76

Know we getting down to acutally skill and music shit ya know for us geeks who type on okp.

2pac > Big

2pac sold more records okay

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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Torez
Charter member
19262 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 11:35 AM

83. "new yorkers that RAPPED* as well as BIG (in the historical context):"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Apr-18-05 11:36 AM by Torez

~ ra
~ kane
~ nas
~ grand puba
~ lauryn
~ masta ace
~ meth

new yorkers that rapped as well as big and were as popular, well backed and charismatic as big:

~ none

(*and that's the difference. people should accept that mc means more than just putting words together in a clever, thoughtul way. it also means MOVE THE CROWD.)
<--- clearly insane

----------------------------------
THE TOREZ MANDATE:

Comments made about the physical attributes of women
are purely theoretical speculation based on the mindstate
of the former 'SINGLE!TOREZ'

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Jumpin On Hoes Like Mario From
Member since Mar 11th 2005
68 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 11:37 AM

85. "jay isn't as popular and charismatic?"
In response to Reply # 83

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Torez
Charter member
19262 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 11:40 AM

89. "dang, yeah, throw jay in their, too..."
In response to Reply # 85

IF there is a possible argument, jay could make it.

but the point i was making was that LYRICS alone
do not make an mc. BIG'S POPULARITY coupled
with his lyrical ability is what puts him
over the top.
<--- clearly insane

----------------------------------
THE TOREZ MANDATE:

Comments made about the physical attributes of women
are purely theoretical speculation based on the mindstate
of the former 'SINGLE!TOREZ'

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 11:42 AM

91. "so now the masses make someone great but these same masses"
In response to Reply # 89

are the casue for downfall of hip-hop and opinion shouldn't take in effect?

let me get this straight now or do you believe sales and popularity determine how great an mc or album is?

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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Torez
Charter member
19262 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 01:16 PM

104. "yes, ENDURING popularity matters...."
In response to Reply # 91

but ENDURING is key. ENDURING popularity is what
seperates VANILLA ICE from BIG, 'PAC, JAY, etc.
ENDURING popularity - especially in fickle ass
hip hop - requires skill and lyrical ability
and personality.

so while DEL THE FUNKY HOMOSAPIEN and RASS
KASS are dope rappers, they will never be
great mc's, because they don't TOUCH
enough people hard enough for them
to be remembered and rise above the
pack.

to be a great mc, you have to TOUCH
PEOPLE'S MIND AND HEARTS with your shit, man.

cause to me, mc mean's MOVE THE CROWD ( C )

as for this:

>>but these same masses are the casue for downfall of hip-hop and opinion shouldn't take in effect?<<

i don't believe the masses cause the downfall of hip hop. that's an elitist opinion that i haven't subsribed to for a long time.

folks need to understand that at the core, hip hop is URBAN FOLK MUSIC. its FROM THE MASSES. it was created to ENTERTAIN the masses. it was made to ROCK PARTIES.

the only reason its STILL AROUND is because it has continued to resonate and remain relevant with the masses. if it had become uppity and hoity toity like many people here wish, it would be gone just like avante garde jazz, to be replaced by something more accessible. (see: herbie hancock and grover washington junior style JAZZ SOUL)

i think a lot of yall would'a critiqued early hip hop out of existence, for real.

<--- clearly insane

----------------------------------
THE TOREZ MANDATE:

Comments made about the physical attributes of women
are purely theoretical speculation based on the mindstate
of the former 'SINGLE!TOREZ'

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Mastermind12
Member since Dec 06th 2003
1462 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 02:06 PM

"this nigga speakin the truth"

couldn't have said it better myself

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Mastermind12
Member since Dec 06th 2003
1462 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 02:06 PM

116. "this nigga speakin the truth"
In response to Reply # 104

couldn't have said it better myself

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tomtomorrow
Charter member
1215 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 05:15 PM

193. "RE: yes, ENDURING popularity matters...."
In response to Reply # 104

What about when a rapper can't get access to a broad audience? Isn't a lot of that a distribution issue?

Funnybook Babylon - We write the blog while Rome burns.

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 11:37 AM

86. "THIS POST IS OFFICIALLY THEE FUCK OVER"
In response to Reply # 83

thank u torez....rapping is bigger than rapping

________________________________________
who gonna check me boo?!

www.twitter.com/firefire100
http://instagram.com/firefire100
www.philadelphiaeagles.com

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 11:38 AM

88. "so this makes Pac the greatest?"
In response to Reply # 86
Mon Apr-18-05 11:39 AM by Menphyel7

right?

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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Jumpin On Hoes Like Mario From
Member since Mar 11th 2005
68 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 11:40 AM

90. "yeah that would make pac the best ever"
In response to Reply # 88

and then mc hammer and vanilla ice then biggie.

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Torez
Charter member
19262 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 01:20 PM

105. "dude, vanilla ice stopped being popular almost as soon"
In response to Reply # 90

as his first album was over. same with hammer.

READY TO DIE came out over TEN YEARS AGO, and
cats are STILL RUNNING IT.

from COAST TO COAST. people STILL MISS BIG.

nobody misses hammer or vanilla ice. shit,
as live as rass kass is, nobody MISSES him.

i keep telling yall

MC MEANS MOVE THE CROWD, also.
<--- clearly insane

----------------------------------
THE TOREZ MANDATE:

Comments made about the physical attributes of women
are purely theoretical speculation based on the mindstate
of the former 'SINGLE!TOREZ'

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loopdigga
Charter member
3930 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 12:24 PM

96. "only chicks think like this"
In response to Reply # 86

....rapping is bigger than rapping

and yall dudes need to stop with that "so and so has charisma" it really sound kinda bitchmade and aint really something a nigga can measure.

In fact I think the only reason that word comes up

charisma = videos

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 12:46 PM

101. "were u birthed by a man, womanhater?"
In response to Reply # 96

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Torez
Charter member
19262 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 01:29 PM

107. "charisma is mostly vocal...BIG IS UGLY IN VIDEOS, DAWG...."
In response to Reply # 96

the dude's voice was compelling and his flow was live and his subject matter was relatable and he was funny as hell.

grand puba was the same way, but his voice wasn't as dope,
and so he lacked vocal charisma.

dawg, anybody who knows rap knows the difference between a
lyrical master wtih low charisma (masta ace, del, big l, parish smith) and somebody with lyrical charisma (mef, red, cube, chuck d)

vocal charisma is the shit that makes you listen before
you even figure out the cat got skils.
<--- clearly insane

----------------------------------
THE TOREZ MANDATE:

Comments made about the physical attributes of women
are purely theoretical speculation based on the mindstate
of the former 'SINGLE!TOREZ'

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 01:49 PM

112. "lol@him thinking its cuz biggie is a sex symbol!"
In response to Reply # 107

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loopdigga
Charter member
3930 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 02:06 PM

115. "that's why charisma is just a&r talk."
In response to Reply # 107

>dawg, anybody who knows rap knows the difference between a
>lyrical master wtih low charisma (masta ace, del, big l,
>parish smith) and somebody with lyrical charisma (mef, red,
>cube, chuck d)

How in the hell do you say PARRISH SMITH or BIG L got less charisma than a METHOD MAN? Your talking about voice and flow and somehow tying that into a package of charisma which aint even what folks like FIRE(aka rapping is more than rapping) are even talking about.

I mean I understand where you coming from but that aint what keeps 50CENT and LL COOL J on stage with no shirt on.

When you talk charisma its too subjective, cause folks bring they own reasons for liking certain folks and alot of times it makes no sense.

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Torez
Charter member
19262 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:17 PM

122. "dude listen to PARISH SMITH RAP and listen to METH rap..."
In response to Reply # 115

parish will put you to SLEEP!!

meth engages your EAR. his inflection. his flow.
the stuff he says! the guy CARRIED all his solo
albums full of medicore beats on vocal charisma
alone.

and big l's clever punch lines cannot outweigh
his whiny, mike tyson pitched voice or the fact
that he rapped THE SAME WAY EVERY SONG. if you've
heard one big l song, you've heard them all.

i mean, the cat was dope man, but it takes
more than having dope lyrics to be a LIVE MC.
<--- clearly insane

----------------------------------
THE TOREZ MANDATE:

Comments made about the physical attributes of women
are purely theoretical speculation based on the mindstate
of the former 'SINGLE!TOREZ'

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loopdigga
Charter member
3930 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:42 PM

138. "so explain how wack parrish smith??"
In response to Reply # 122

>parish will put you to SLEEP!!

Somehow managed to spit on 4 classic albums? It damn sure wasnt ERIC SERMON holding down EPMD lyrically.

>meth engages your EAR. his inflection. his flow.
>the stuff he says! the guy CARRIED all his solo
>albums full of medicore beats on vocal charisma
>alone.

Like I said that's YOUR opinion. Now me and mine just heard

TICAL letdown
TICAL 2000 wack
TICAL -0 wack

So when it's all said and done you can keep your "charisma" and I will take good records.

>and big l's clever punch lines cannot outweigh
>his whiny, mike tyson pitched voice or the fact
>that he rapped THE SAME WAY EVERY SONG. if you've
>heard one big l song, you've heard them all.
>
>i mean, the cat was dope man, but it takes
>more than having dope lyrics to be a LIVE MC.

What does any of that have to do with charisma???

He would never sign with a NL team at this point in his career, after he's hit a million fucking batters. Obviously its a different story coming straight out of high school dumbass - 3xCrazy on Roger Clemens 6/2002

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Torez
Charter member
19262 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:51 PM

145. "epmd don't have four classic albums to me. the have two."
In response to Reply # 138

strictly and unfinished business. the rest are good, but not classic.

>>TICAL letdown
TICAL 2000 wack
TICAL -0 wack

So when it's all said and done you can keep your "charisma" and I will take good records.<<

shit, okay. tha'ts fine. but really, are you arguing that PARISH SMITH is a better mc than METH? you ever seen METH live? you wanna see PARISH live, now?

>>What does any of that have to do with charisma???<<

VOCAL charisma, which i defined somewhere in this thread, is something that PARISH lacked and big L, too. they are boring on the mic, dude. they say clever things, but utlimately are not engaging. at best, they are extremely skilled BATTLERAPPERS, but that's it.

BATTLE RAP hardly moves me anymore dunny. I haven't been in a cypher in damn near fifteen years.

<--- clearly insane

----------------------------------
THE TOREZ MANDATE:

Comments made about the physical attributes of women
are purely theoretical speculation based on the mindstate
of the former 'SINGLE!TOREZ'

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loopdigga
Charter member
3930 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:08 PM

156. "we just feel different shit , nothing wrong with that"
In response to Reply # 145

>strictly and unfinished business. the rest are good, but not
>classic.

They got 4. If anything the joint with "HEADBANGER" is better than the 1st.

>shit, okay. tha'ts fine. but really, are you arguing that
>PARISH SMITH is a better mc than METH? you ever seen METH
>live? you wanna see PARISH live, now?

METHOD MAN of course is better, the debate was on this so called "charisma". You stated PARRISH SMITH had none and I completly disagree with that.

He would never sign with a NL team at this point in his career, after he's hit a million fucking batters. Obviously its a different story coming straight out of high school dumbass - 3xCrazy on Roger Clemens 6/2002

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:21 PM

125. "parrish?....ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!??!"
In response to Reply # 115

u are smoking heavy duty oven cleaner doggie

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Torez
Charter member
19262 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:26 PM

131. "right? he could'a at least said ERIC SERMON...."
In response to Reply # 125

paris BEEN un-live...
<--- clearly insane

----------------------------------
THE TOREZ MANDATE:

Comments made about the physical attributes of women
are purely theoretical speculation based on the mindstate
of the former 'SINGLE!TOREZ'

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Organ
Charter member
8739 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 08:55 AM

228. "Parrish is better than Erick"
In response to Reply # 131

Knicks yo
Cowboys yo

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loopdigga
Charter member
3930 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:46 PM

140. "dont suprise me one bit you dont like EPMD"
In response to Reply # 125

He would never sign with a NL team at this point in his career, after he's hit a million fucking batters. Obviously its a different story coming straight out of high school dumbass - 3xCrazy on Roger Clemens 6/2002

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:53 PM

147. "I FUCKING LOVE EPMD IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1"
In response to Reply # 140

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND ME IS THAT AS MUCH AS I LOVE A MOTHERBUCKER I HAVE THE OBJECTIVITITY TO REALIZE WHEN SOMEONE IS BETTER. TO COMPARE BIGGIE TO PARRISH SMITH IS LIKE COMPARING MY AVATAR TO TERRENCE TRENT DARBY. U ARE CRAZY.

*caps lock off*

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loopdigga
Charter member
3930 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:58 PM

149. " stupid bitch show me where I wrote pmd was better than big"
In response to Reply # 147

>THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND ME IS THAT AS MUCH AS I LOVE A
>MOTHERBUCKER I HAVE THE OBJECTIVITITY TO REALIZE WHEN SOMEONE
>IS BETTER. TO COMPARE BIGGIE TO PARRISH SMITH IS LIKE
>COMPARING MY AVATAR TO TERRENCE TRENT DARBY. U ARE CRAZY.

see this what I mean, fuck outta these HIP HOP posts.

He would never sign with a NL team at this point in his career, after he's hit a million fucking batters. Obviously its a different story coming straight out of high school dumbass - 3xCrazy on Roger Clemens 6/2002

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:03 PM

153. "MOTHER MADE YA, MOTHERFUCK YA"
In response to Reply # 149

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The Damaja
Member since Aug 02nd 2003
18637 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:25 PM

130. "cosign"
In response to Reply # 96

>....rapping is bigger than rapping
>
>
>and yall dudes need to stop with that "so and so has charisma"
>it really sound kinda bitchmade and aint really something a
>nigga can measure.
>
>
>
>In fact I think the only reason that word comes up
>
>charisma = videos
>

I was saying this in another post
all this swooning over suchnsuches charisma
it's suspect

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 11:38 AM

87. "so tells the truth the real reason he is best of all time and KONY is......"
In response to Reply # 83

PUFFY The man yall all seem to hate and some blame for killing hip-hop.

..........baffled

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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Torez
Charter member
19262 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 01:24 PM

106. "cats wacker than BIG puff tried to blow up:"
In response to Reply # 87
Mon Apr-18-05 01:30 PM by Torez

LOON, G-DEP, BLACK ROB..are they in this conversation?

no.

its not puff, dude...big was like that.
<--- clearly insane

----------------------------------
THE TOREZ MANDATE:

Comments made about the physical attributes of women
are purely theoretical speculation based on the mindstate
of the former 'SINGLE!TOREZ'

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:43 PM

166. "I'm not saying he wasn't good he was above average but not GOAT at all"
In response to Reply # 106

Puffy got yall thinking he GOAT for real. He was above average I mean he was great but not no GOAT.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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Ascension
Member since Aug 25th 2003
6616 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 01:47 PM

110. "how you gonna say Kane wasnt as charismatic as Big?"
In response to Reply # 83

Instagram: ascensionmusic

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Torez
Charter member
19262 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:19 PM

123. "kane wasn't as funny and didn't tell stories as good."
In response to Reply # 110

plus, kane's FAT ELVIS STAGE always
hemms him up.

last, ten years after all hail the kane
i didn't miss him. cube made me damn
near forget about kane.

as dope as jay and 'pac are,
they only make me miss big more.

<--- clearly insane

----------------------------------
THE TOREZ MANDATE:

Comments made about the physical attributes of women
are purely theoretical speculation based on the mindstate
of the former 'SINGLE!TOREZ'

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:54 PM

148. "i am so in love w/u today"
In response to Reply # 123

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Ascension
Member since Aug 25th 2003
6616 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:52 PM

174. "you have no clue what charismatic means..but ima tell you"
In response to Reply # 123
Mon Apr-18-05 04:54 PM by Ascension

1.Of, relating to, or characterized by charisma: "the warmth of a naturally charismatic leader" (Joyce Carol Oates).

2.Of, relating to, or being a type of Christianity that emphasizes personal religious experience and divinely inspired powers, as of healing, prophecy, and the gift of tongues.

what the fuck does being funny have to do w/ that? Charismatic means the ability fo feel what a rapper is conveying..Kane always had a message in his shit about the upliftment and recognizing the struggle of his own of his own people..i hardly ever heard Big write some shit on the caliber..save a few songs here and there..thats not dissing his emceeing because he was great..but come on now when it comes to the message Kane brought and what Big did..there's a big distinction..hats not sayin Big didnt have touching lyrics either..but Kane IMO had more consistancy in that department.

Instagram: ascensionmusic

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:14 PM

119. "biggie's "charisma" = puffy"
In response to Reply # 83

the guy was a boring interview and he was never on camera without puff.

pac was a great interview. always had something interesting to say. biggie simply did not.

____________________________________________________

Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

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Torez
Charter member
19262 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:25 PM

129. "VOCAL charisma, dude...ON THE MIC charisma"
In response to Reply # 119

damon wayans gives a boring ass interview
to, but who gives a hell? put that dude in
front of a camera, and its SHOWTIME!!!

same thing with big. close your eyes
and play ready to die and the guy is
amazing.

and remember...it was TEN YEARS AGO.

i can't think of any album that's come out
that long ago, that i replay
and enjoy as much as READY TO DIE.
certainly nothing jay has done.
(and i like jay.)

all the old school cats i love:

kane, ll, biz mark...ten years
after the fact, i wasn't running
their albums every year.

big is that dude, man.

<--- clearly insane

----------------------------------
THE TOREZ MANDATE:

Comments made about the physical attributes of women
are purely theoretical speculation based on the mindstate
of the former 'SINGLE!TOREZ'

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 11:30 AM

252. "please...lotta dudes got "vocal" charisma...he had puff's hype"
In response to Reply # 129

it's the MTV-age...big was sold through video like everyone else...don't come that.

____________________________________________________

Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

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hateration
Charter member
6901 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:52 PM

146. "lauryn hill is ALSO not from ny"
In response to Reply # 83

www.highergroundonline.com

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haji rana pinya
Charter member
53604 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 11:54 AM

92. "yes"
In response to Reply # 0

*********************
www.dumhi.com

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RamXL
Charter member
13957 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 12:21 PM

95. "i call these white boy posts...aka whos the best?"
In response to Reply # 0

man of course there is no best.
it's evolution, those best suited for the enviornment, perhaps.
those with a selective advantage, will be better fit for the environment.

with no kane, rakim, g rap, slick rick, melle mel, there is NO big.
anyone who understands the music, can see that big did the amazing thing of encapsulating all these voices (and then some) into his own.

it was the ultimate survival advantage.
he could freak any shit.

you throw him on back dat azz up, shit blends perfect, over some dre shit, timbo shit, dilla shit, and on and on and on.

pac wasnt that.
pac was loved more cause he was "pretty", and our culture is obsessed with looks...big rode all that, and still sold more records.
that's why pac's most potent and penetrable shit is never even talked about.

i wanna get into more detail about the breaks that he rocked over, but yall some shark biters, soo ill leave that be...

but duke is easily the best freestyler ive ever heard (see: mr cee's big tribute this year on sirrius radio...shit he said HE'LL NEVER play again...naturally, i got it..ha)

peace,
-ram

"shit, been the same since '86 and kane"

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Ascension
Member since Aug 25th 2003
6616 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 01:51 PM

114. "Chuuuuuch..Amen on that."
In response to Reply # 95

Instagram: ascensionmusic

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sugababy
Member since Mar 19th 2003
17500 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:14 PM

157. "pac was loved more cuz he was "pretty"?!? what the fuck?"
In response to Reply # 95

how bout pac IS loved because he spoke a language that people understand, period.

************************************
How many of y'all know where Texas is?
Stolen land, formerly Mexican � Bavu Blakes

I guess that's just how you was raised.

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RamXL
Charter member
13957 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:40 PM

162. "i'd argue with that"
In response to Reply # 157

>how bout pac IS loved because he spoke a language that people
>understand, period.

a lot of the shit he talked about, sure some folks understood.
but the more ethereal shit, the issues of life and death, struggle, pain...i honestly dont think most people could grasp what he was talking about.

that's why a lot of those tracks, or topics are never mentioned.

its always based on all eyez on me, which he recorded each track dumb drunk and high, cause he *knew* that's what the listeners were doing.

he put the jewels out there too, most people just didnt catch them.
and if you wanna say pac's popularity was due to folks understanding his language....eh

it was more the visercal aspects too me.

peace,
-ram

"shit, been the same since '86 and kane"

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sugababy
Member since Mar 19th 2003
17500 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 05:01 PM

181. "have you ever actually talked to these human beings?"
In response to Reply # 162

ask people on the street who love pac and they will tell you pac spoke to them. maybe he was more accessible for folks outside of the east coast, and thus, more peoplpe had an opportunity to peep game, but that shouldn't take away from the fact that he reached people with his music.

he didn't need fancy technique. he wasnt about flippin words and syllables to make some dope shit. not to say those things arent to be respected, its just that every rapper isnt the same. pac did his thing the way he wanted.

when i think of pac, i think of the diverse array of content in his songs, his lyrics and/or the bomb ass beats he had, comparable to nothing. there havent been beats like that since.

and you mentioned somethin about all eyez being the only thing ppl focus on and then go on to say how he did that drunk, high etc cuz he *knew* thats what ppl were doing... hmmm... so are you saying that people jumped on it cuz they can relate to it?

isnt that more of MY point?

************************************
How many of y'all know where Texas is?
Stolen land, formerly Mexican � Bavu Blakes

I guess that's just how you was raised.

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RamXL
Charter member
13957 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 05:10 PM

187. "uhm"
In response to Reply # 181

>you mentioned somethin about all eyez being the only thing
>ppl focus on and then go on to say how he did that drunk, high
>etc cuz he *knew* thats what ppl were doing... hmmm... so
>are you saying that people jumped on it cuz they can relate to
>it?

no im saying they often stopped there.
didnt bother to venture into the brother's other works, etc.
it's always cali love, i get around, i aint mad atcha, or hit em up, dear mama.
im saying if we judge pac (vast majority of his listeners will point to these tracks), we're missing out on the whole ship.

cause if folks did truly listen, he wouldve had a different legacy.

he put it out there, some folks just didnt hear it...

peace
-ram

"shit, been the same since '86 and kane"

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sugababy
Member since Mar 19th 2003
17500 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 05:13 PM

191. "okay, so lets take these same folk and ask them about big"
In response to Reply # 187

what they gonna say?

same shit.

but it really don't matter.

pac reached more people, period.

************************************
How many of y'all know where Texas is?
Stolen land, formerly Mexican � Bavu Blakes

I guess that's just how you was raised.

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RamXL
Charter member
13957 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 05:17 PM

194. "was it cause of his music tho?"
In response to Reply # 191

>pac reached more people, period.

naw

for big you can actually say the people he touched was DIRECTLY correlated to the music he made.
pac, not soo much....

peace,
-ram

"shit, been the same since '86 and kane"

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sugababy
Member since Mar 19th 2003
17500 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 05:19 PM

197. "u keep talkin, but aint sayin shit"
In response to Reply # 194
Mon Apr-18-05 05:19 PM by sugababy

u aint givin me shit to work with.

************************************
How many of y'all know where Texas is?
Stolen land, formerly Mexican � Bavu Blakes

I guess that's just how you was raised.

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RamXL
Charter member
13957 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 06:19 PM

208. "i refuse to make this into a big vs pac poast"
In response to Reply # 197

>u aint givin me shit to work with.

peace,
-ram

"shit, been the same since '86 and kane"

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sugababy
Member since Mar 19th 2003
17500 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 09:52 PM

216. "*looks at post 95* *blinks*"
In response to Reply # 208

************************************
How many of y'all know where Texas is?
Stolen land, formerly Mexican � Bavu Blakes

I guess that's just how you was raised.

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RamXL
Charter member
13957 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 09:55 PM

218. "i thought post 16 was the origination of the topic"
In response to Reply # 216

didnt mean to make a separate reply.
but i will below...

peace,
-ram

"shit, been the same since '86 and kane"

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:46 PM

168. "you about to be dumb"
In response to Reply # 95

>pac wasnt that.
>pac was loved more cause he was "pretty", and our culture is
>obsessed with looks...big rode all that, and still sold more
>records.
>that's why pac's most potent and penetrable shit is never even
>talked about.
this is just dumb and stupid for real. BIG Was loved more cause he was ugly. its more ugly people in the world than good looking people just dumb shit

>i wanna get into more detail about the breaks that he rocked
>over, but yall some shark biters, soo ill leave that be...
what the fuck? does this have to do with mcing

>but duke is easily the best freestyler ive ever heard (see:
>mr cee's big tribute this year on sirrius radio...shit he said
>HE'LL NEVER play again...naturally, i got it..ha)
YOu need to see more freestyler.

Pac lyrics > BIG lyircs anyday of the week.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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RamXL
Charter member
13957 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:51 PM

172. "please money"
In response to Reply # 168

>
>this is just dumb and stupid for real. BIG Was loved more
>cause he was ugly. its more ugly people in the world than good
>looking people just dumb shit

no numbnuts.
im saying we live in a culture that's engrossed with physical appearance.
hoes loved pac more than big for that sole reason.

pac will always be viewed as a sex symbol, no doubting that.

>what the fuck? does this have to do with mcing

the paints and oils a painter uses, the canvas that he paints on has a lot to do with teh product.
in hip-hop the canvas is usually the most important thing...

>
>>but duke is easily the best freestyler ive ever heard (see:
>>mr cee's big tribute this year on sirrius radio...shit he
>said
>>HE'LL NEVER play again...naturally, i got it..ha)
>YOu need to see more freestyler.

buddy i got way more years on you in this department.
trust me

>Pac lyrics > BIG lyircs anyday of the week.

lol
content wise, perhaps.
but lyrics?
have you ever written down a big verse?

do you understand poetry?
like have you studied other poetry from other countries, all over, have you ever compared them with big's written works?

dude, he's on some shakespeare shit when it came to the words.
pac was gifted no doubt, but the styles were different.
pac was more emotion with words...
big can spit a simple sentence draped with imagery and metaphor.
pac will spit a sentence that hits straight to your chest.

pac couldnt realyl do the opposite as well as big.
big on the other hand, could finish careers with one line...

peace,
-ram

"shit, been the same since '86 and kane"

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sugababy
Member since Mar 19th 2003
17500 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 05:04 PM

182. "respectable young ladies, like myself, love jay and he OOGLAY"
In response to Reply # 172

that shit holds NO weight.

most rappers are OOGLAY, period.

i can't even believe you would minimalize pac to a sex symbol and not much else.

i mean, yeah, id fuck him, but that aint got shit to do wit this, haha.

************************************
How many of y'all know where Texas is?
Stolen land, formerly Mexican � Bavu Blakes

I guess that's just how you was raised.

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RamXL
Charter member
13957 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 05:12 PM

189. "ha"
In response to Reply # 182

>i can't even believe you would minimalize pac to a sex symbol
>and not much else.

no sugarplum, im not minimalizing shit.
OUR SOCIETY however...

>i mean, yeah, id fuck him, but that aint got shit to do wit
>this, haha.

yea i knew that without you having to tell me...

peace,
-ram

"shit, been the same since '86 and kane"

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sugababy
Member since Mar 19th 2003
17500 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 05:18 PM

195. "I GOT YO SUGAPLUM RIGHT CHEA"
In response to Reply # 189

oh, and did society do THIS to you?

cuz you sounds like you might have some machismo issues, honey bun.

now excuse me while i create my list of top 10 sexiest rappers id fuck and them claim they are the GOATS.

thanks.

************************************
How many of y'all know where Texas is?
Stolen land, formerly Mexican � Bavu Blakes

I guess that's just how you was raised.

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RamXL
Charter member
13957 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 06:09 PM

203. "you're misunderstanding me"
In response to Reply # 195

>oh, and did society do THIS to you?

>cuz you sounds like you might have some machismo issues, honey
>bun.

i'm sure i do.
but yes, our society predicates talent on superficialities.
that's why pac's role for his looks, his james dean esque rebel without a cause type shit...all of that trumps his art.

too me, those are *frills*

big was no frills.

and this is mc shit we talking about right?
so all those things about touching more people...lol, this aint a popularity contest.

"beef is when you make your enemies start to cheat"
all of his enemies cheated, blantantly.

big NEVER cheated.
for that he'll always get respect.

>
>now excuse me while i create my list of top 10 sexiest rappers
>id fuck and them claim they are the GOATS.

there's nothing wrong in wanting to fuck pac, big, whatever whatever.
but when that shit outshines your art, we aint talking about mc shit no more.

id much rather have someone tell me why they'd fuck pac based on what he said, etc.
or get tatt'd cause of what he said, rather than the idea of thug life, or whatever.
but that shit dont happen...

and finally, if we are talking strict skill...let's just take humor for example.
a trait of all good orators, and even charismatic people.
pac was funny to himself and the outlawz...he tried hard to be funny, but the shit didnt work.

big was serious, funny, and all of the other range of emotions that you can feel from his work.
just like pac, but big did it that much better.

in my not soo humble opinion.

howd this turn into a pac vs big post?

peace,
-ram

"shit, been the same since '86 and kane"

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sugababy
Member since Mar 19th 2003
17500 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 09:54 PM

217. "*blinks*"
In response to Reply # 203

************************************
How many of y'all know where Texas is?
Stolen land, formerly Mexican � Bavu Blakes

I guess that's just how you was raised.

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 06:29 AM

220. "at this real subjective crap you pull"
In response to Reply # 203

>>oh, and did society do THIS to you?
>
>>cuz you sounds like you might have some machismo issues,
>honey
>>bun.
>
>i'm sure i do.
>but yes, our society predicates talent on superficialities.
>that's why pac's role for his looks, his james dean esque
>rebel without a cause type shit...all of that trumps his art.
>
>too me, those are *frills*
>
>big was no frills.
lol
>
>and this is mc shit we talking about right?
>so all those things about touching more people...lol, this
>aint a popularity contest.
>
>"beef is when you make your enemies start to cheat"
>all of his enemies cheated, blantantly.
>
>big NEVER cheated.
>for that he'll always get respect.
uh he dissed a damn dead man and said subliminals all the time without saying dudes name so he wouldn't lose sales and look like the nice guy this is cheating

>>id fuck and them claim they are the GOATS.
>
>there's nothing wrong in wanting to fuck pac, big, whatever
>whatever.
>but when that shit outshines your art, we aint talking about
>mc shit no more.
no one came up with the sexy shit.
>id much rather have someone tell me why they'd fuck pac based
>on what he said, etc.
>or get tatt'd cause of what he said, rather than the idea of
>thug life, or whatever.
>but that shit dont happen...
who are you talking to with this only people who want to fuck Pac like him?
>and finally, if we are talking strict skill...let's just take
>humor for example.
>a trait of all good orators, and even charismatic people.
>pac was funny to himself and the outlawz...he tried hard to be
>funny, but the shit didnt work.
>big was serious, funny, and all of the other range of emotions
>that you can feel from his work.
>just like pac, but big did it that much better.

this is just crazyness this is so subjective and whatever. Who finds what funny and for how long. What is funny to you ain't funny to someone else. Some find hit em up funny as hell. Pac was just as funny as BIG if not funny. listen to "what's yo phone number" and tell me he ain't "Funny" which is a stupid mc trait to begin with.

>in my not soo humble opinion.
>
>howd this turn into a pac vs big post?
>
>peace,
>-ram
>

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 05:05 PM

183. "RE: please money"
In response to Reply # 172

>>
>>this is just dumb and stupid for real. BIG Was loved more
>>cause he was ugly. its more ugly people in the world than
>good
>>looking people just dumb shit
>
>no numbnuts.
>im saying we live in a culture that's engrossed with physical
>appearance.
>hoes loved pac more than big for that sole reason.
BIg was the big loveable fat guy
>pac will always be viewed as a sex symbol, no doubting that.
>
>>what the fuck? does this have to do with mcing
>
>the paints and oils a painter uses, the canvas that he paints
>on has a lot to do with teh product.
>in hip-hop the canvas is usually the most important thing...
>
>
>>
>>>but duke is easily the best freestyler ive ever heard (see:
>
>>>mr cee's big tribute this year on sirrius radio...shit he
>>said
>>>HE'LL NEVER play again...naturally, i got it..ha)
>>YOu need to see more freestyler.
>
>buddy i got way more years on you in this department.
>trust me
>
>>Pac lyrics > BIG lyircs anyday of the week.
>
>lol
>content wise, perhaps.
>but lyrics?
>have you ever written down a big verse?
>
>do you understand poetry?
>like have you studied other poetry from other countries, all
>over, have you ever compared them with big's written works?

>dude, he's on some shakespeare shit when it came to the
>words.
>pac was gifted no doubt, but the styles were different.
>pac was more emotion with words...
>big can spit a simple sentence draped with imagery and
>metaphor.
>pac will spit a sentence that hits straight to your chest.
>
>pac couldnt realyl do the opposite as well as big.
>big on the other hand, could finish careers with one line...
listen to blashmpey then come back with this bull and he could do while acutally talking about something
>peace,
>-ram

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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RamXL
Charter member
13957 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 05:15 PM

192. "dude pac had 3x the number of albums big did"
In response to Reply # 183

and countless more songs.

big was just starting...

and his body of work (word wise) is still more impressive than pac's.
pac's ability to express himself with his vocals, that's still a lasting part of his legacy.

but come on now...

peace,
-ram

"shit, been the same since '86 and kane"

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86673 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 12:30 PM

97. ""Hut 1, hut 2, hut 3, HUT! Old Dirty Bastard live and uncut...""
In response to Reply # 0

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

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RamXL
Charter member
13957 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 12:51 PM

102. ""open YOUR eyes and realize aint *no* sugar in my tank"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Apr-18-05 12:51 PM by RamXL

out of *all* my friends, there's only *one* i'd like to thank
my man big d taught me a lesson that was great
that good things come to those who wait
and we waited through the suffering and pain
and bitches ride the dick like the a-train..." rip my man

when someone is *freestyling* like that, what else is there too say?
a vast majority of yall are on the wrong side of the bell curve.

play hard, but dont work and shit...
time to restudy.

peace,
-ram

"shit, been the same since '86 and kane"

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haji rana pinya
Charter member
53604 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 01:08 PM

103. "im shocked and appauled by this thread"
In response to Reply # 0

best schmest...

like a couple ppl said...

the "best" is obviously never going to be decided

but these kids ripping on big?

man oh man

they must be kids cuz they SURE werent in their teens or early 20's when big hit the scene

or they the only remaining west coasters who still holding on to that beef

man...

biggie smalls is the illest

it is simple as that

yes...there is nas and rakim and jay but...

biggie is the illest

i cant even describe what it was like the 1st week hot 97 started playing who shot ya?

literally cars would pull to the side of the road when the 'as we proceed' dropped in

one of those cars was mine

and mind you...this was during an AMAZING period of hiphop for east coast and ny

black moon. wu tang. redman. nas.

and there was biggie.

mista cee's mixtape?

super cat remix. 411 remix. bust a nut.

biggie big rip the twat...down to the asshole.

ANYTHING WE COULD GET OUR HANDS ON.

ready to die?

man...c'mon

he didnt have subject matter or change his shit? thats just a stupid 'azz' thing to even say

the man told stories with the best of them, flipped his flow at will, had punchlines, poignency (sp?), bravado, emotion....just could capture the listener

man look...

big doesnt have to be the best

and he doesnt have to be your favorite

but the beating he is taking from some of yall...

thats just wow

it says more about you than it does about biggie smalls the emcee rapper word sayer whatever the fuck you want to call him

now go listen to unbelievable!

*********************
www.dumhi.com

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GdChil1
Member since Dec 05th 2003
14709 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 01:29 PM

108. ""Dude bought the East Back, You Better Believe That...""
In response to Reply # 103

ask your favorite rapper who there favorite rapper was/is and I guarentee BIG's name will be dropped a nice amount of times...OKP is full of the "Backpack Brigade".

A lot of people weren't around when BIG dropped ready 2 die and the impact it had on the rap industry as a whole...west coast was killing the east coast and Biggie basically said "gimme that crown back" and held it down...

Wow, my login still works 🤦🏾‍♂️

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Organ
Charter member
8739 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 09:39 AM

241. "dude did not singlehandedly bring the East back"
In response to Reply # 108

>ask your favorite rapper who there favorite rapper was/is and
>I guarentee BIG's name will be dropped a nice amount of
>times...OKP is full of the "Backpack Brigade".
>
>A lot of people weren't around when BIG dropped ready 2 die
>and the impact it had on the rap industry as a whole...west
>coast was killing the east coast and Biggie basically said
>"gimme that crown back" and held it down...

it was a collective effort between the likes Wu, Biggie, Nas, Jeru KRS, Mobb Deep, Redman, Keith Murray and a few others(bewtween 93-95)

first thing y'all will say is that Jeru's name probably doesn't belong there but remember this:
Rap City/Yo MTV Raps in the early 90s played songs that mainstream radio wouldn't play
Back then, shit like Rap City and MTV's top 10 countdown on Saturdays and shit like that was waaaaay more important that it is today
Every time Jeru put a video out--Come Clean, D'Original, Prophet that shit was #1 for weeks and weeks and weeks

Wu Tang had just as much to do with the reemergence of the East as Biggie did
Matter of fact, Method Man was getting more props than Big in 94
Peeps was riding his nuts hard
Big even got him to guest on his album!
Then he had a song just as big in the mainstream as Big Poppa and One More Chance remix(All That I Need remix)
Go back to 94 and Big was not getting the props for everything

Big just got out in the mainstream with Big Poppa and One More Chance and so he gets credit for ressurecting the East because of his popularity
The lyricism and grittiness of those I mentioned above(Biggie included) though is what really saved the East(if it even needed that)

With the exception of LL the East been getting killed in record sales since N.W.A. dropped
If dude didn't get killed he would be considered ONE of the best
ONE of
ONE of
ONE of...

Maybe he would have gotten that top 5 status after a few more albums
I don't have him that high though

**Side Note**
End of the year issue of the source in 1994 your boy Puffy had his #1 album that year as Craig Mack-Project Funk the World hahaha
The Flava got to his ear

Knicks yo
Cowboys yo

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TomTillett2004
Member since Feb 27th 2004
424 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:09 PM

118. "Co-Sign"
In response to Reply # 103

>
>now go listen to unbelievable!
>

_____________________________
You don�t think that America is the land of the Free? Well, where else could Michael Jackson be born a poor black boy in Iowa and Die a rich white man in Cali?

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:28 PM

132. "PREACH UP IN THIS MUFUCKA, PREACH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 103

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Ascension
Member since Aug 25th 2003
6616 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 01:38 PM

109. "there needs to be an age prerequisite for this post."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Apr-18-05 02:05 PM by Ascension

im seein to many teenie bopper mtv hiphop lovin GOOGLE searching HIPHOP heads in this post talking bout Big is the best when yall are straight up disrespecting Rakim,KRS,Kane,G Rap etc..those whove put out way more legendary work and had more of an impact for NY based hiphop.

Instagram: ascensionmusic

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
Charter member
57012 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 01:48 PM

111. "son... u just made aquafina shoot out my nose.."
In response to Reply # 109
Mon Apr-18-05 01:57 PM by My_SP1200_Broken_Aga

>>im seein to many teenie bopper mtv
>>hiphop lovin GOOGLE searching HIPHOP heads

lol

..and furthermore, Big (puffy got the snowball rollin with big) ushered in the wack era in hip hop ..the flossin on camera shiny suits bullshit era which led cornball 80s samples, then to swizz keyboard beats and made ny sound so wack and uncreative on the mainstrream front and ultimitly alowed the dirty south sound come thru with a "stronger" product than the wack shit ny was putting out.. all the while squeezing the underground scene financially out of the picture..

so yeah, big was a dope mc, but he sure as hell didnt make hip hop better like a de la soul, rakim or ultramagnetic.. or even a kanye.. ZING!!!

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haji rana pinya
Charter member
53604 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 02:31 PM

117. "i agree with a lot of this"
In response to Reply # 111

i mean what big did is still flooding the radio

well watered down copies of it

and the only beef i really ever had with big is popularizing the player hater concept (which as far as im concerned is simply a sell outs reply to someone calling them on being a sellout)

*********************
www.dumhi.com

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
Charter member
57012 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:15 PM

120. "RE: i agree with a lot of this"
In response to Reply # 117

>the player hater concept (which as far as im concerned is
>simply a sell outs reply to someone calling them on being a
>sellout)

pretty much

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buildingblock
Charter member
100000 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:22 PM

127. "the fuck outta here with that crybaby shit"
In response to Reply # 111

just admit it, the underground didn't step up
post soon to come

...a child is born with no state of mind, blind to the ways of mankind, god is smilin' on you and frownin' too, because only god knows what you gonna do...�melle mel

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Ascension
Member since Aug 25th 2003
6616 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 05:08 PM

185. "and your point is (about the underground falling off)?"
In response to Reply # 127
Mon Apr-18-05 05:08 PM by Ascension

I dont disagree w/ you..but im still wondering what the hell that has to do w/ Big's short career one classic debut, sophmore inconsistant double album making him the outright GOAT of NY. Big was never seeing KRS's catalog by no means,Rakim or Kane either.

Instagram: ascensionmusic

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:21 PM

126. "I'M OLDER THAN YOU"
In response to Reply # 109

dummies

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Ascension
Member since Aug 25th 2003
6616 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:56 PM

177. "no you aint. either."
In response to Reply # 126
Mon Apr-18-05 05:16 PM by Ascension

trick

Instagram: ascensionmusic

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 06:38 AM

222. "well if it aint the son of a prostitute talking"
In response to Reply # 177

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Ascension
Member since Aug 25th 2003
6616 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 06:41 AM

224. "now you sayin you my mama now?!?!"
In response to Reply # 222
Tue Apr-19-05 06:44 AM by Ascension

you talkin real big for somebody who was on Pimps Up Hoes Down.

Instagram: ascensionmusic

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stattic
Charter member
29791 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:25 PM

128. "guarantee im older than u"
In response to Reply # 109

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Ascension
Member since Aug 25th 2003
6616 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:56 PM

178. "nope."
In response to Reply # 128

Instagram: ascensionmusic

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stattic
Charter member
29791 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 06:08 PM

201. "do tell, how old are u?"
In response to Reply # 178

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 09:13 AM

233. "he's posting from his high school computer lab, stattic"
In response to Reply # 201

ignore him

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Ascension
Member since Aug 25th 2003
6616 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 11:37 AM

254. "im 28 years old fire ... your the one who never logs off this site so.."
In response to Reply # 233

who the fuck you think your talkin to..look at your post count..that says enough about your so called make believe life.

Instagram: ascensionmusic

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Torez
Charter member
19262 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:38 PM

136. "i'm older than you, captain...."
In response to Reply # 109

if anything, folks need stop being nostalgic
about old school rap and the dudes who laid
the groundwork and their popularity.

there are credible arguments to be made that KRS,
and RAKIM were just as good or better than BIG, (i mean
I STILL listen to BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY on occasion)
but a lot of the OTHER cats (even cats with better lyrical
ability) were not better MC'S.

from a pure lyrical standpoint, SLAUGHTAHOUSE is
killing READY TO DIE. But which one would I rather
listen to? Which one makes me laugh when I think
about it? Which one evokes EMOTIOn from me? Shit,
who would I rather see at the live show?

It ain't no contest, dawg.

<--- clearly insane

----------------------------------
THE TOREZ MANDATE:

Comments made about the physical attributes of women
are purely theoretical speculation based on the mindstate
of the former 'SINGLE!TOREZ'

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Ascension
Member since Aug 25th 2003
6616 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:47 PM

169. "so respecting old school is being nostalgic....how lame."
In response to Reply # 136

Instagram: ascensionmusic

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BabySoulRebel
Charter member
19232 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:36 PM

134. "I've noticed something about heads"
In response to Reply # 0

who continually scream that BIG was the GOAT: that whole era (94-98) was when they came of age....Big came out, the Wu was still coming up. Black Moon had come out with "Da Shinin". Was Biggie REALLY the greatest of all time with such a small but incredible body or work or is it nostalgia for that period in time? One develops a very strong attachment to the soundtrack of their lives. I know I do.

here for dis.

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Torez
Charter member
19262 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:45 PM

139. "nostalgia is key, but really, the only people"
In response to Reply # 134

you can put AGAINST big are old shcool new york rappers like rakim,
krs, etc, and there is even MORE nostalgia tied into their legacies.

these discussions never really solve anything but at the core
what they really reveal is what people expect from rappers and
what people give precendece/prominence.

my definition for MC is one who MOVES THE CROWD.

if that's your criteria, then yeah, i think big
gotta be in the discussion.
<--- clearly insane

----------------------------------
THE TOREZ MANDATE:

Comments made about the physical attributes of women
are purely theoretical speculation based on the mindstate
of the former 'SINGLE!TOREZ'

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BabySoulRebel
Charter member
19232 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:01 PM

151. "According to you I guess....."
In response to Reply # 139

I would've placed BIG against his contemporaries, as standards for "emcee-ship" generally change with the years and the audience.

Wu (group or individual)
Redman
Black Moon/Bootcamp Clik
Jay Z
Nas
Junior Mafia
Keep in mind that we are talking about 94-98 right now. We aren taking into account where these artists are now. I'm taking this from when Biggie first popped on the scene to when he died.

Now out of them, it's all on who you ask. I would say that Rae or Ghost are up there in lyrical dexterity with Big. On subject, they're really all the same with the exception of Redman and Wu cuz Red was never really on the hustling tip as far as rhyming go and Wu it depended on the individual. As far as flow, the only one I would put up there with Big is Nas. And even him, he didn't command the mic the way Biggie did. Storytelling skills: I would put Jay, Nas and Big on the same level. So to conclude this: the only thing I will give Biggie is that he was superior to all of the listed parties in terms of flow. And if you're gonna call an emcee the Greatest of All Time, it should be because he/she should excel in all areas, not just one.

here for dis.

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k_orr
Charter member
80197 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:59 PM

150. "interesting point about how much good hip hop was out"
In response to Reply # 134

at the time.

I don't forsee cats 10 years from now arguing about Cassidy and Fabolous...

BUT

It's pretty clear that before Biggie, Bootcamp or Wu or any other grimy "hold a cipher down" mf'er could run NYC, but after biggie that ended.

I think someone else said it about (My Sp?), that Biggie "ended" the east coast underground.

Whether it was Biggie or Puffy, after the "one more chance" rmx, (prolly starting with Juicy - if you ask me), NYC commercial radio rappers had to change.

And Puffy n'nem, if you ask me, was merely responding to the West Coast funk monopoly when they used Juicy Fruit for Juicy. "We can funk too" And Puffy added in some R&B for good measure, and that's all she wrote.

Biggie had a formula, ran with it. Everyone else copied it.
Cats who weren't gonna cater their music to a national audience, got fucked.

While that was happening though, the whole make a "national" record, and not a 5 boros record, fucked NYC hip hop.

When Mobb Deep did a song with 8 Ball and MJG, me and my potnas laughed hard. My sides still hurting from Bun B on 50 Cent's joint from back in the day. - These cats was catering. And it was failing until 9 shots put the current nails in the east coast coffin. Now the tightest crew, or rather the most money making crew in hip hop has every region but the midwest covered. And best believe if they could gangstify Common....

But making a national record is poised to fuck up Houston, and other cities as well. Cause now Flip be rhyming quicker. Everyone in the Souhh now (Outside of the Northside of Houston where it originated, and ATL where it was duplicated) think they can get krunk - when they wasn't no way even close to krunk a few years back.

Or, rephrased, Krunk used to mean more than just lil jon. Ying Yang was talking about gettin krunk to MONEY AND THE POWER, (yup, money and the power by Scarface).

Anyway, that's my take on the whole history of hip hop since 96.

one
k. orr

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BabySoulRebel
Charter member
19232 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:06 PM

154. "AIIYYOOOO!!!"
In response to Reply # 150

I agree with ya on most of your "history" except this:

> My sides still hurting from Bun B on 50
>Cent's joint from back in the day.

If I never heard that song, I never would have known how dope Bun B and UGK really is. But I suppose that's a whole other post on inter-region collabos.

here for dis.

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DJ Contact
Member since Oct 21st 2003
27857 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 07:02 PM

213. "I say Crunk as we know it now started with Triple 6...."
In response to Reply # 150

I hadn't heard nobody doin what they were doin before they were doin it...Niggas took they whole style and ran wit that shit.

"You post like you look your barber in the eyes when he lines you up."

http://twitter.com/semiautomatic_C
PSN ID: killacontact_71

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urbgriot
Charter member
11445 posts

Sun May-01-05 10:00 PM

263. "Triple 6 was the begining of Crunk as we know it...nm"
In response to Reply # 150

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:02 PM

152. "SHIT AINT NOSTALGIC"
In response to Reply # 134

if i was being nostalgic hell schooly d would be the g.oa.t the shit is what it is, biggie is the GOAT rapper. period

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BabySoulRebel
Charter member
19232 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:08 PM

155. "Fire I appreciate your candor"
In response to Reply # 152

but that's YOUR opinion sweets.

here for dis.

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:24 PM

160. "yeah, i'm the only one that loves biggie"
In response to Reply # 155

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BabySoulRebel
Charter member
19232 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:28 PM

161. "Don't put words in my mouth"
In response to Reply # 160

I didn't say you were the only one. The "shit ain't nostalgic, biggie is the goat" is all YOU. I was just reminding you that was YOUR opinion.

here for dis.

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 06:42 AM

225. "i knew that it was my opinion when i typed it, no need 2 remind me"
In response to Reply # 161

+ i was responding to this,....i coulda sworn you asked a question:

"Was Biggie REALLY the greatest of all time with such a small but incredible body or work or is it nostalgia for that period in
time?

unless of course u ask questions that you dont want answered

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Ascension
Member since Aug 25th 2003
6616 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 05:01 PM

180. "off one classic + one inconsistant album...please GTFOHWTB"
In response to Reply # 152

Instagram: ascensionmusic

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 07:38 AM

227. "quality>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>quantity"
In response to Reply # 180

this applies to music, clothing, real estate, friends & penis

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BabySoulRebel
Charter member
19232 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 09:03 AM

230. "Maybe so"
In response to Reply # 227

but to call someone the GOAT just off of 2 albums and a few freestyles? Incredible though they were, it's just not enough for the simple fact that his career was cut short unfortunately. We will never know how it would play out.

here for dis.

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 09:17 AM

236. "it didn't need to play out though"
In response to Reply # 230

james dean died at an early age, but that doesn't take away from the fact that on screen he had megawatts of talent & star quality. i'm sorry, not only did biggies albums have me enthralled, but seeing him in concert was a force to be reckoned with. m.c. means move the crowd (c) rakim...& biggie moved millions of people then and now. not just cuz his music pumped but because he was engaging, smart, funny, street, lyrical and interesting....;..he just frigging had it. the it that rakim (god bless) just didn't have. rakim is ill as fuck, but on stage.........there was something to be desired...& since he is still alive we know how his story played out, now didn't we?

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BabySoulRebel
Charter member
19232 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 11:10 AM

244. "You have your opinion"
In response to Reply # 236

I have mine. We'll leave it at that.

here for dis.

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The Damaja
Member since Aug 02nd 2003
18637 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 03:46 PM

141. "see, BIG had a vocal drum kit"
In response to Reply # 0

your standard drumkit has, bass drum, snare drum, hi hat, symbol, and those two other mid range drums with different pitches

"PASS THAT, before you get your grave DUG from the main THUG, three fifty seven SLUG"
symbol-symbol - midrange roll - kick kick kick snare - kick kick kick snare - kick kick kick snare - (the the next line is a midrange roll type thing)

other rappers change pitch but they're fluid about it, BIG is disciplined

---
I just wanted to say that since it occurred to me earlier while listening

as far as this post goes
1. How is Nas not better than BIG? Illmatic > Ready to Die. Circa 94 Nas guest spots > BIG's. Are people assuming he would go on to make another 5 Ready to Dies? Or that he would be Jay-Z except substantially better, hence the greatest? How can you make that assumption

2. BIG seems to have found some special narritive voice, whereby every line seems to make perfect sense, to be a completely natural extension of the last, and to be perfectly placed. I'm not sure what it is

3. What's all this talk about how influential he is? What does that matter? And then talking about non-MCing related things. It's like saying Thriller is the greatest album, because of the influential success of its music videos. It's getting a bit besides the point.

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BabySoulRebel
Charter member
19232 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:20 PM

158. "Never really broke it down to the technical"
In response to Reply # 141

but that is a really good point on his vocals.

I guess if you look at the overall as far as Biggie and Nas go, Big never took a misstep because he was killed before that could possibly happen. Nas has an entire album that most of his fans want to forget (Nastradamus). I would tend to agree with you that Biggie-dickriders are n't really taking into account what could've happened if he never passed on. Maybe Life after Death would've been his last good album before he went to shit. We don't know that and we never will. But I don't agree with calling him the GOAT when his overall body of work is too small to make such comparisons.

here for dis.

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k_orr
Charter member
80197 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:23 PM

159. "RE: see, BIG had a vocal drum kit"
In response to Reply # 141

>1. How is Nas not better than BIG? Illmatic > Ready to Die.

Although I agree, in fact a lot of heads would agree, but the albums were trying to do 2 diff things.

Illmatic vs. Infamous is a good comparison.

REady to Die vs?.....

>3. What's all this talk about how influential he is? What does
>that matter? And then talking about non-MCing related things.
>It's like saying Thriller is the greatest album, because of
>the influential success of its music videos. It's getting a
>bit besides the point.

Analogy is off.

But what's a better way to understand how good an mc is, than to look @ how many people decide to copy his work?

MJ has Usher and Timberlake (among others)

Biggie has.....
Nas has....
Pac has....
Cube has....
Rakim has....

Knowing who an mc influenced tells you a lot about what the mc had to offer - cause now you're getting to see things from a variety of subjective viewpoints. But as a whole, the idea is that all that subjectivity balances out.

one
k. orr

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The Damaja
Member since Aug 02nd 2003
18637 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:44 PM

167. "RE: see, BIG had a vocal drum kit"
In response to Reply # 159

>
>>1. How is Nas not better than BIG? Illmatic > Ready to Die.

>
>But what's a better way to understand how good an mc is, than
>to look @ how many people decide to copy his work?
>
>MJ has Usher and Timberlake (among others)
>
>Biggie has.....
>Nas has....
>Pac has....
>Cube has....
>Rakim has....
>
>Knowing who an mc influenced tells you a lot about what the mc
>had to offer - cause now you're getting to see things from a
>variety of subjective viewpoints. But as a whole, the idea is
>that all that subjectivity balances out.
>

but then you need to be selective about what viewpoints you count

i encountered the same situation in regard to a novel. Many critics denounced it because they forsaw/noticed an influx of similar, but less skillful writing. The article I was reading said this doesn't matter, because a good novel can influence a lot of bad novels through no fault of its own, and a mediocre work could influence a lot of great work ("the next generation is responsible for its own soul").

So did BIG only influence good MCs and good rap?
I think ?uestlove says in some article that chronic begat ready to die begat it was written (a decline). Not to mention all the generic MCs he must have influenced. Do these things get balanced?

Or do you only think of it in more simplistic/intuitive terms. like, well Jay-Z says he owes so much to BIG, so I guess BIG was on to something. I can see that

but the argument would need to come back full circle - ie. we look at the influences, to help us identify the things that Biggie pioneered or excelled at

not just saying "look, Biggie influenced tons of MCs and sold millions round the world"

>one

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RamXL
Charter member
13957 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:43 PM

165. "ARGGGH"
In response to Reply # 0

if one more person talks about how sappy juicy and shit was cause they were choosing weaker breaks....

look, none of the folks that people mention could take bitches brew, and connect that with the pain of killing one's self.

NO ONE.

no one did it before, no one has done it since.

sure the debarge shit was made for a pop hit, but taht shit is still better than all the shit it birthed.

bah, whatever.

peace,
-ram

"shit, been the same since '86 and kane"

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:51 PM

173. "Makevli 7 day theory.....took 2 unkown producers got them in the studio ..."
In response to Reply # 165
Mon Apr-18-05 04:52 PM by Menphyel7

made a damn classic with original music and not known interpolations. NIgga even came hard on the chick song and diss dre.

HIs music was live but hard nothing like it.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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RamXL
Charter member
13957 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:55 PM

176. "first this is about the east coast and big"
In response to Reply # 173

you ridin for pac like this is a crunk is garbage post.

pac is from the east, and he doesnt rank in the top 5 from the east.
i love pac, i think 7 day theory is criminally MISUNDERSTOOD and shit.

the beats, yea pac was finally getting into the production side.

still, pac isnt seeing big on the word side.

peace,
-ram

"shit, been the same since '86 and kane"

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k_orr
Charter member
80197 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:58 PM

179. "Pac is from the east, same way Luda is from Illinois"
In response to Reply # 176

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RamXL
Charter member
13957 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 06:15 PM

206. "i hear a crazy midwest influence in luda's shit tho..."
In response to Reply # 179

peace,
-ram

"shit, been the same since '86 and kane"

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DJ Contact
Member since Oct 21st 2003
27857 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 07:04 PM

214. "Co-sign, all that fast spittin is straight Chi Town..."
In response to Reply # 206

"You post like you look your barber in the eyes when he lines you up."

http://twitter.com/semiautomatic_C
PSN ID: killacontact_71

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 11:14 AM

246. "yall realize a gang of fast spitters are in the south right"
In response to Reply # 214

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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DJ Contact
Member since Oct 21st 2003
27857 posts

Wed Apr-20-05 03:11 PM

257. "That may be true, but listen to how he spits it...."
In response to Reply # 246

That's how Twista, Do or Die and Crucial Conflict been spittin it for years.

"You post like you look your barber in the eyes when he lines you up."

http://twitter.com/semiautomatic_C
PSN ID: killacontact_71

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 05:08 PM

186. "RE: first this is about the east coast and big"
In response to Reply # 176

>you ridin for pac like this is a crunk is garbage post.
>
>pac is from the east, and he doesnt rank in the top 5 from the
>east.
please and like K orr he is not east
>i love pac, i think 7 day theory is criminally MISUNDERSTOOD
>and shit.
>
>the beats, yea pac was finally getting into the production
>side.

>still, pac isnt seeing big on the word side.

yes he is always killing BIg on the word side.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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RamXL
Charter member
13957 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 06:12 PM

204. "i guess we agree to disagree, cause you aint comin with science"
In response to Reply # 186

>yes he is always killing BIg on the word side.

that's a real coherent argument there champ.

peace,
-ram

"shit, been the same since '86 and kane"

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BarTek
Member since Nov 10th 2002
51250 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 06:18 PM

207. "RE: first this is about the east coast and big"
In response to Reply # 186

>yes he is always killing BIg on the word side.

i have to disagree. however, i'm not sure what you mean by "word side", cause, lyrically, big was eating pac, but as far as energetic delivery and charisma, pac ate big for breakfast. peace

~
Been Dazed and Confused for so long it's not true. Wanted a woman, never bargained for you. Lots of people talk and few of them know, soul of a woman was created below.
~
This is the life I chose, or rather the life that chose me
If you can't respect t

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RamXL
Charter member
13957 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 06:27 PM

209. "but too much energy must convert back to potential"
In response to Reply # 207

>i have to disagree. however, i'm not sure what you mean by
>"word side", cause, lyrically, big was eating pac, but as far
>as energetic delivery and charisma, pac ate big for breakfast.
>peace

you gotta pick and choose your points as an emcee on when too go hard.
of course we're dealing with two cats that were above 90th percentile.

but yknow, subtlty isnt often seen as potent....

tricks are for kids tho.

peace,
-ram

"shit, been the same since '86 and kane"

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BarTek
Member since Nov 10th 2002
51250 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 06:28 PM

210. "RE: i hafta agree..."
In response to Reply # 209

that was a great point. peace

~
Been Dazed and Confused for so long it's not true. Wanted a woman, never bargained for you. Lots of people talk and few of them know, soul of a woman was created below.
~
This is the life I chose, or rather the life that chose me
If you can't respect t

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 06:31 AM

221. "we can bring out lyrics/poetry what you want and Pac would kill BIG"
In response to Reply # 209

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 09:32 AM

238. "navajoes creep me in they teepee"
In response to Reply # 221

im a pac fiend but his lyrics/imagery/wordplay are NOT seeing big eVER

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 11:15 AM

247. "ever seen a crackhead that's eternal Fire"
In response to Reply # 238
Tue Apr-19-05 11:18 AM by Menphyel7

you see imagery about something, an metaphor instead of I got hoes

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:50 PM

170. "So when yall diss mcs for average/above average lyrics of sex, mudere an..."
In response to Reply # 0

I want yall remeber BIGGIE.

Biggie lyrics no where near 2pac, nas, jigga.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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RamXL
Charter member
13957 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 04:52 PM

175. "state your year of birth, youngin"
In response to Reply # 170

>Biggie lyrics no where near 2pac, nas, jigga.

peace,
-ram

"shit, been the same since '86 and kane"

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 05:12 PM

190. "nigga please"
In response to Reply # 175

he don't see Kool G rap, rakim or chuck D or Krs-one either

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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Ascension
Member since Aug 25th 2003
6616 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 05:19 PM

196. "Truth."
In response to Reply # 190

Instagram: ascensionmusic

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The Damaja
Member since Aug 02nd 2003
18637 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 05:21 PM

198. "it's always fun when people play trumps with their birth certificates"
In response to Reply # 175

yo, if you were born before december 1978 you CANNOT comment

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Richard Ulysses Lust
Member since Apr 11th 2005
459 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 06:12 PM

205. "pac's lyrics werent all that"
In response to Reply # 170

he just rhymed with emotion

---------------------------------------

A.K.A. Dick U. Lust

"you came strong, i lasted longer than i've ever lasted, your mouth was fantastic" - MJGeezus

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 09:32 AM

239. "exactly"
In response to Reply # 205

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 09:50 AM

242. "please to the both of yall"
In response to Reply # 239

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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BabySoulRebel
Charter member
19232 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 11:13 AM

245. "Bushwick Bill said it best in XXL"
In response to Reply # 242

"With Biggie, it was strictly blunts and the block. With Pac, you could talk about everything under the sun, from aphrodisiacs to Egyptology."

You can hear the difference in their respective music. I'm more of a Biggie fan than Pac and even I can admit this. As far as subject, Pac blew Biggie out the water.

here for dis.

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 11:16 AM

248. "thank you"
In response to Reply # 245

> As
>far as subject, Pac blew Biggie out the water.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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Melanism
Charter member
20452 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 07:27 AM

226. "You lost me when you said Pac"
In response to Reply # 170

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DJ Contact
Member since Oct 21st 2003
27857 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 07:11 PM

215. "IMO, the highest you can talk about Big is #4..."
In response to Reply # 0

I think the top 3 slots are interchangable depending on your preference, but pretty much set in stone (KRS-One, Big Daddy Kane, and Rakim)...I've read a lot of posts, but I aint seen nobody make a good argument for Big even close to gettin one of these spots.

The earliest you can even begin to put Big in the picture is #4 in my book, and that's only if you include total impact and all those other intangibles yall have been talkin about...based on straight MC'in, he might drop down further, cuz now you bring Nas, G Rap, and somebody like Ghostface into the picture.

"You post like you look your barber in the eyes when he lines you up."

http://twitter.com/semiautomatic_C
PSN ID: killacontact_71

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prettytony79
Member since Oct 19th 2004
1754 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 09:33 AM

240. "Big Daddy Kane is definitely not in the top 3"
In response to Reply # 215

The top 10, yes.

"90 min maxell tapes/ instrumental breaks/ bangin' ear aches/ lay my verse down in two takes..." Ghostface

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Ascension
Member since Aug 25th 2003
6616 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 11:29 AM

250. "cats kill me w/ arguing a point..but not having any basis to go on"
In response to Reply # 240

your gonna have to do a lil more than just say kane isnt top 3 and leave it at that..where some grounds to support this.

Instagram: ascensionmusic

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prettytony79
Member since Oct 19th 2004
1754 posts

Wed Apr-20-05 09:38 AM

255. "he has two good LP's..."
In response to Reply # 250

and a bunch a garbage after that. Is that enough information to back my statement your honor.

"90 min maxell tapes/ instrumental breaks/ bangin' ear aches/ lay my verse down in two takes..." Ghostface

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RamXL
Charter member
13957 posts

Mon Apr-18-05 09:57 PM

219. ""look what you made me do, brains blew...."
In response to Reply # 0

well this is indeed the bottomless pit.
i cant believe i'd even let myself compare these two.
choosing the best or whatever always defeats the purpose.

this shit is like rating girls or albums and shit.
i'll leave that too you folks.

peace,
-ram

"shit, been the same since '86 and kane"

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 06:39 AM

223. "you right its like Jay and Nas mention one mention the other"
In response to Reply # 219

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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prettytony79
Member since Oct 19th 2004
1754 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 09:27 AM

237. "The bottom line is..."
In response to Reply # 0

that every nigga you love who produces wanted to fuck with B.I.G. The best producers wanted to be a part of his albums because they knew that he would take their music to a higher plateau. All these niggas ya'll naming saying they better than B.I.G. couldn't do that shit. Stop hating on the King of NYC.

Good producers who've worked with B.I.G.

DJ Premier
Havoc
Lord Finesse
Chucky Thompson
D-Dot
Carlos "Six July" Broady
Nasheim Myrick
RZA
Easy Mo Bee
TrakMasterz
Buck Wild
Clark Kent

"90 min maxell tapes/ instrumental breaks/ bangin' ear aches/ lay my verse down in two takes..." Ghostface

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BabySoulRebel
Charter member
19232 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 11:19 AM

249. "This means what exactly?"
In response to Reply # 237

Just because producers wanted to work him, that makes him the best?

here for dis.

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 11:29 AM

251. "uh maybe they wanted to make money?"
In response to Reply # 237

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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Menphyel7
Charter member
36436 posts

Tue Apr-19-05 11:31 AM

253. "well put BIG on Wild Pitch and yall be like "that dude was underrated""
In response to Reply # 0

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7

"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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TekniqTheFreak
Member since Mar 01st 2005
421 posts

Sun May-01-05 06:46 PM

261. "RE: So is Biggie really the best Mc from New York?"
In response to Reply # 0

This should all really die and go away.. but..

I think I'll derive some perverse sense of pleasure from bringing this discussion(?) to a proper ending..

I sat.. for like.. 45 minutes.. and read this entire shyt fest.
It started off reasonably enough, and then 2pac entered the picture. Always does, since the post is about Biggie. But whateva.. these folks will go to their graves based on their Biggie/Pac affiliations. You can't tell nobody nuthin'.. that's how they feel.. now that shyt ain't a crime, i guess.. but all that Big/Pac shyt is beneath me. BENEATH a head that truly respects the contributions of all of the GREAT emcee's that have ever done it. Those 2 were the most POPULAR rappers ever.. certainly not the best ever. But yet, since their deaths, they been on errybody's list. Pac got a dope-ass catalogue, and Big was just insanely real with it while here, but enuff..

When it comes to the actual question that was asked, (ie. the fukkin' point of the whole post, not this fanboy/gurl shyt), Biggie ain't #1. Not from NY, and certainly not ever. And yes.. I'm a veteran of this shyt. He barely released two albums, and they were industry changing (for better or worse).. you can definitely claim that much. I will credit him for being the only rapper in the world to ever say three words in a rhythmic sentence, and wow folks with his simplicity. They made lil' boys and gurls wanna dream about bein' rich, and that's fukkin' fantastic and shyt.. but when it comes to rhymes, emceein, changin' peoples flow (not business-wise, but skill), and generally bringin' the culture forward.. I don't think Biggie is up there.

It really is Rakim. And there's only one thing I need to point to within this post to prove it.. The Two most vociferous backers of Biggie in this very post, both have said MC means Move The Crowd.. Who's line is that muhfukkas??? Do you even realize that while you're biggin' up yer boy, yer referring to your 'boys' HERO?!??!!

Rakim IS Biggie, Pac, Nas, Jay-Z, Kool G Rap, Pharoahe, every OKP artist and all else.. or you ain't from the East and you don't really know..

That's all, kiddies. Get yer learn on.

TEK

________________________________________
Social Networking is Balls - This Forum will have to do.

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts

Sun May-01-05 07:07 PM

262. "lol @ the bandwagon"
In response to Reply # 0

Objectively, Big's reign was sadly too short for him to get the "best in NY" but while he was alive, he -was- the best MC representing NY.

But of all time, he isn't the best MC from New York. That would have to go to Rakim...hiphop would be stuck in "gameshow announcer" mode if not for him. If not Rakim, then either Kane or KRS. Those three to The Doc, are the holy trinity of hiphop, and Ice Cube ('88-'94) is right with them...just because they were the ones that pretty much molded everything that followed. Big was parts of all of them...believe it or not, there even shades of KRS in Big, if you listen to the Criminal Minded LP.

He and Pac were fighting for "best" of "right now" in 1994-96, and that's what eventually led to them clashing. But the truth of the matter is, the two of them ain't seein' Rakim, KRS, Kane, and Cube.
Neither were saying/doing anything those four hadn't already.

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