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>you can't have a positive (or even generally humane) hip-hop
>artist...
>
>because, according to you, the culture is rooted in
>negativity and wrongdoing.
Negativity and wrongdoing by your judeo-christian in 20th century American standards - yes.
>Why should anyone want to be a part of anything that's
>misogynistic and homophobic at its very core?
It ain't for you then.
We like it.
We don't view it our culture as one that hates women or scared of homosexuals.
Lyrically, most folks when they hear bitches ain't shit, don't literally think that all women are worthless.
On the video tip, where you see a poor girl being prostituted, we see a fine chick getting paid for looking fine.
>That's why it looks like hip-hop is on a non-stop course
>towards self-destruction: it's hypocritical. It claims to be
>one thing when it's actually another. It can be claimed to
>be two completely different things at the same time.
What does "hip hop" claim to be?
There are plenty of hip hop heads that are always talking about hip hop is uplifting....yadda yadda yadda - but they fail to qualify that in comparison to things in American society are generally considered uplifting.
For a lot of cats, just knowing that Lil Wayne is going through the same shit they're going through, wanting the same things that he wants, seeing the world the same way that he does - that's very empowering. For them.
For folks who aren't of that experience, they will fail to understand why someone would want to rhyme about the worst aspects of the Magnolia projects.
Cats who say stuff like "who still wants to hear gangsta rap, that shit is so over. Who still thinks street cred is important, must be some white kids" - they don't really get it.
And you can find that, "i'm writing for those folks who are living a rough life" thread all throughout hip hop. I think a cat might argue that's *the* main thread, where I think it's *a* main thread.
One of the problems that this creates is that folks outside of this experience have access to this music. (there are other problems - like multi=millionaire 2 parent having celebrities making arguments about a reality that is diff than their own is and was - there's this assumption that all black people in America not only share this experience, but are also qualified to speak for and to and about folks who have this experience)
>When I was part of the hip-hop club in college, it was all
>aout hip-hop being positive and using the elements for the
>embetterment of the people. But none of that is really
>honest, is it? It's hypocritical.
That's kinda bs.
When Kool Herc started out, he wanted to throw a party for his sister (or cousin). Is this positive or negative?
Does the fact that the party was in the West Bronx and held for working class blacks and latinos (of american and caribbean descent) make it negative or positive?
So if unsavory elements of the West Bronx, and then the South Bronx get involved - does hip hop become positive or negative?
As you look througout the development of hip hop, you're gonna constantly face these questions of Negative and Positive, and the only answer you can say definitively is "maybe"
It's very simplistic and naive to think that the practice of hip hop is either positive or negative.
Some folks say hip hop is positive, cause a lot of them kids could be out causing trouble, but instead they're practicing these various arts.
Other folks would say hip hop is negative, cause while they're practicing these various arts, they're not studying and becoming competent members of society.
Hip Hop doesn't lend itself to that sort of analysis.
>Like "sure, we'll help out...long as you ain't a homo or an
>'upitty' female."
It doesn't
Hip Hop has pretty much looked down on females, both lyrically and in terms of getting on. (at least that's in front of the camera, behind the scenes women have made plenty of strides - but don't ge me wrong the machismo in hip hop is still ever present)
Gays - hip hop seems to be on a don't ask don't tell policy
Whites - lol.
Latinos - see women - lots in the various disciplines except rap. A bunch in the industry. But I maintain there has been historically some subtle barriers against Latinos.
Jews - see whites.
the poor - strange and evolving relationship
the rich or middle class - only given respect if earned by the 3 means (sports, entertainment, crime)
Christians - "give em fake Gods at odd with Allah, love thy enemy and all that hooplah", "Save the Gods and Earths and bomb the rest", "Preacher Porkchop"
I can go down the line.
You could argue that rap music in general, professes the view of the young, black, urban, heterosexual, aggressive, street smart, male. Anything that doesn't meet that threshold gets clowned or worse yet, ignored.
>And the whole vandalism thing is another thing...I don't
>even know how to touch on that.
If you want to get scholarly, Graf cats believe that public space belongs to the public, and they are members of the public, so they can reclaim it.
If you want to stick to reality, them cats just wanna get up, and it doesn't matter that other folks don't like the way it looks.
>And as far as the "music property rights thing" is
>concerned...another contradiction. You can sample all other
>peoples' music...so what's stopping them from taking yours?
>Nothing.
Exactly.
Yet you'll find Chuck D in support of downloading (for weird reasons), and LL Cool J against downloading.
You'll find Chuck D, 'you can't own no loop', sue Madonna for Justify my Love, or go after Primo and Biggie for using his voice in the 10 crack commandments.
Hip Hop wants to have it both ways, but at the essence, it's all about stealing.
>Maybe I thought I understood when I really didn't. But it
>doesn't matter, does it? After, the music isn't for me. I'm
>not allowed, apparently, to listen to or attempt to enjoy
>it.
That's just it. If I could stop you, I would.
But you have unfettered access to the material.
Does that mean you understand it? No.
Does that mean you should support it? no.
Does that mean you can't make comments about it? No.
I can't stop you.
And that's pretty much been a problem with hip hop.
The market forces the genre to be open, because folks see money. So they make it available to anyone with money. Or nowadays with the net.
When folks talk about the good old days, I think it's fair to say that 1) record companies didn't know what they were doing, 2) they relied on insiders who had their own notions of what was dope and their own ethics.
As hip hop became really profitable, and record companies had a better idea of what they thought would sell, and the media outlets had their own ideas - you can say that mainstream commercial radio hip hop to some extent was constricted by the market.
But you can also make the argument that if the market really wanted something other than a version of corporate hip hop(you might be able to make an argument that corporate hip hop is a bit more polished - but I won't make that argument), it would appear on the underground - because on the underground there are no corporate restrictions.
But looking at the underground, you won't see this.
People want Jr. Writer, Red Cafe, Jae Millz, etc
People want Crime Mob and Dem Franchise Boyz.
People want to be the new Ice Cube or the new Nas.
But you rarely (in a relative # sense - 1:100 type odds) see a cat wanting to be positive and uplifting like a Krs-1 in teacher mode.
>I guess I should just stick to cartoons, like you said.
>After all, that's all that I'm good for, right?
It's where your expertise is.
IMO, you shouldn't try to defend a position like yours without a proper hip hop education and experience.
I hate to say this (no I don't) but You can't really talk about hip hop, unless you've heard a lot of it, unless you've seen a lot of it, unless you've experienced a lot of it. I'm not about to say that hip hop is something you live, but hip hop is certainly bigger than your own personal consumer experience.
On top of that, i'm saying your position is wrong.
Had this question been posed by a seasoned lesson veteran, I'd have the same arguments (with more support of course)
>I would like for a moderator to please lock this post. No
>more replies. PLEASE. I'm sorry I ever thought hip-hop was
>something I could enjoy.
Well, now that you've come to grips with it, maybe you can make a change.
Maybe you can stop looking at the world as full of sin, but rather as full of people who have free will, and will decide to do things you do not like, and to enjoy things you personally find horrible.
one
k. orr
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