Why is it that so many of our current faves in R&B (specifically) are better live acts than studio ones? Do you think this has always been the case? I don't.
I don't listen to Stevie's Innervisions and think, "Damn. This is OKAY and all, but I bet these songs really came to life on stage." I do think that when I listen to Meshell's Cookie album and when I listen to Erykah's Mama's Gun and D'angelo's Voodoo.
I mean, was Rufus better on stage than in the studio? Did "You Got the Love" have even more SPICE/GRIT/FIRE when they did it live? Is that even possible? Could Chaka have been FUNKIER live?
What's going on? Are ppl holding back in the studios these days? Why can't Meshell be just as funky in a booth as she is on a stage? Why can't D'angelo's "Shit Damn Motherfucker" be as rock hard on wax as it was on that Voodoo Tour in 2000?
"Yo he preferido hablar a cosas imposibles, porque de lo posible se sabe demasiado." -- Silvio Rodriguez
"if jesus was alive today he'd be incarcerated with the rest of the brothers while uh the devil would have a great apartment on the upper east side be a guest v.j. on total request live" - Me'Shell (god.fear.money)
the problem i have with a lot of roots live tapes is the sound quality is just good, but not always great, though i do have some great shows. check www.phishhook.com for the roots live. i've got shows as far back as '95. i also prefer the roots live when the sound quality is good (though they're great in the studio as well).
"Yo he preferido hablar a cosas imposibles, porque de lo posible se sabe demasiado." -- Silvio Rodriguez
"if jesus was alive today he'd be incarcerated with the rest of the brothers while uh the devil would have a great apartment on the upper east side be a guest v.j. on total request live" - Me'Shell (god.fear.money)
I don't know how to describe it...well maybe I do.
Umm, there's this band called Mogwai. 4 guitars and a drum set. Anyway, I got the cd from a friend. She liked them a lot. It's really chill rock with no vocals.
And then I saw them live.
Same music, different character completely. Those chill songs, started to jam like a mf'er. When you hear it live, it's a totally different experience.
78. "RE: Mogwai = Roots." In response to Reply # 70
A big part of a Mogwai show is the overwhelming, ear-bleeding volume. It's sadistically loud. It gives their soft-loud-soft formula a much more visceral impact.
On another note...I know someone who fell asleep at a Mogwai show. Isn't that scary?
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... Aunt 'Chellie's recorded music is beautiful in a different way. I get you that she sounds mad different right in front'a ya. But on wax, you receive a different sensation.
The sensitive brushes of 'Reflections of My Heart', the gradual rhythm of 'Run To Me', the loving delivery of 'I Forgive You'...
If you got the record you must know what I mean, yo.
Understood and agreed that 'Satisfied' and 'Sista' are Funk-driven in any case, and so they lay the stankness down harder and tighter live...
Nut there are benefits to her recorded performances too.
You've been blessed to see her live. I will one day...I can't wait. Ditto on her studio recordings, though...I Forgive You can bring water to the eyes...
because you have to be fucking crazy to tell me Jag's album is better than her stage show? or that the album version of "Aint Nobody Playing" deserves to be even mentioned w/ the version from the OKP tour
but nobody is going to play that on the radio, those vocals arent nice and smooth, they are gritty w/ emotion, that doesnt make for a catchy song
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34. "RE: they want airplay" In response to Reply # 3
I was going to post with this reply until i read yours ... there has to be a certain level of "polish" on a record for the bigwigs to give it the okay ..... i think we underestimate how outta the loop (and now, running scared) those guys are ....
also, I'm tired of the passive listening. I want something to MOVE me, i want something with energy ... and i find that the older i get, the harder it is to get it from an inanimate cd that's been sterilized for mass consumption ...
i want attitude. i wanna see jag curl her lip and give me the finger in the 5th row .... that's good shit. Seeing a picture of it, removed from context, is just crass and unnecessary.
Acts that are Better Live: (off the cuff)
Jag Musiq Jill Scott Mike Phillips
_______________________________________ In Rotation: Corey Harris f/ Unspoken Heard -- Fa'shizza (remix) 4th Avenue Jones -- Move On Blackalicious -- Blazing Arrow Badly Drawn Boy -- About a Boy Koffy Brown -- Red (liquid mix) Marques Wyatt -- For those Who Get Down
4. "Jaguar Wright, i'm told." In response to Reply # 0
though i actually liked her record better than her live performances that I've seen.
like I said in the "Neo-Soul Group" thread, I think it has to do with the interplay that you get from real-time musicians playing together. hardly anybody records live any more… maybe there's that loss of chemistry in the studio when everybody is recording their parts separately.
29. "i seen her live just once." In response to Reply # 15
and she was sanging too damn much for my taste. and doing that freestyle-sanging shit that i hate, too.
in the studio, she sounded more disciplined. and i liked hearing her voice applied to carefully written songs, as opposed to just sanging anything that came into her head. i need a balance between flash and substance.
that much being said, her album wasn't that great to me.
She wrote a lot of her studio songs by free styling them and I think that's half her charm, I like her album but I personally think that you can feel the emotion in her songs more when she's performing them live. All be it your opinion but I would name her last on my list of singing too much, it's not like every line she sings ends in some type of riff like many other cats out there and she is a singer and she can sing so why shouldn't she sing? I don't know maybe I'm just not fallowing you. I've seen her 4 times live and her shit is tight as hell.
55. "i don't like that freestyle shit." In response to Reply # 51
i didn't care much for it when Marvin did it, and i sure as hell can't stand when Jag and Jill do it.
write a song, motherfucker!
the thing about the oversinging... most people do not have the intuitive melodic sense to just extemporaneously compose a tune on the spot with a cohesive and engaging melody (or lyrics, for that matter).
so what happens when you freestyle-sing is that you overcompensate with the "sanging" in order to make what you're doing sound more musical.
You're intitled to to your opinion of course but I think there are enough people that write out there songs and still give you half ass shit so when women like Jill and Jag give you something of the top of their head I think it's refreshing and quite good. I feel they pull it off well, along with most of the crouds I've watched them with. (one of which being a large group of industry execs) So maybe you're not into that but I wouldn't rule it out as total shit.
62. "RE: i seen her live just once." In response to Reply # 29
>and she was sanging too damn >much for my taste. and >doing that freestyle-sanging shit that >i hate, too. > >in the studio, she sounded more >disciplined.
when i saw her live she did INDEED sing a lot.... however, it was some of the most amazingly techincally controlled disciplined flash that i have ever heard
5. "Tha Labels be the Hitmen..." In response to Reply # 0
Radio take out the contract.
Real Live Music is the victim.
Major Labels know that radio will *RARELY* play an intricately arranged, fluid, solo-featuring, living and breathing track.
But an electronic, over-produced, polished loop gets the love.
It's fast-food, whateva catched the brain fastest will win.
Bizarro-Darwin - Survival of the Quickest. The Quickest to get into your memory, the quickest to bob yo' head. The most powerful demographic ain' feelin' the investment that absorbing 'Ain't Givin' Up No Ground' brings.
To you and I, the impact is INSTANT. To them, they got no frame of reference unless Puff down jacked the band already, ordering them out they ride at gunpoint...
6. "RE: "_______ is better live"" In response to Reply # 0
>Why is it that so many >of our current faves in >R&B (specifically) are better live >acts than studio ones? >Do you think this has >always been the case? >I don't. > >I don't listen to Stevie's Innervisions >and think, "Damn. This >is OKAY and all, but >I bet these songs really >came to life on stage." > I do think that >when I listen to Meshell's >Cookie album and when I >listen to Erykah's Mama's Gun >and D'angelo's Voodoo. > >I mean, was Rufus better on >stage than in the studio? > Did "You Got the >Love" have even more SPICE/GRIT/FIRE >when they did it live? > Is that even possible? > Could Chaka have been >FUNKIER live? > >What's going on? Are ppl >holding back in the studios >these days? Why can't >Meshell be just as funky >in a booth as she >is on a stage? >Why can't D'angelo's "Shit Damn >Motherfucker" be as rock hard >on wax as it was >on that Voodoo Tour in >2000? > >Huh?
I don't about ya'll, but to me, the emphasize on all r&b records placed primarily on how the hard the kicks hit as opposed to the rest of the music. It's get to the point where it dominates the production. No solos (either poorly structured bridges or somebody rapping) don't help either
go back to jazz, opera, symphonic, or any other type of music, and the live performance is always superior to the recorded version. That's the way it's intended to be heard.
19. "I have heard Stevie live." In response to Reply # 7
I have a recording of a concert from 1973. The majority of his stuff sounded better in the studio than it did on stage. On stage he had a tendency to overdo it w/the vocalizing & the talking, to the point where the songs get lost. Like, "Visions" live is...terrible. But that studio version is other-worldly. "Superstition" live is just okay. "Higher Ground" live is sub-par.
24. "why do you say that?" In response to Reply # 7
when I listen to some gritty Meters from '74 and their live show, it's basically the same punch. They didn't tame their shit for the studio ... but then again, I don't know how much of their stuff ever got any airplay besides Soul Island, one of their more tepid songs.
I think it's a disturbing phenomenon although I hear the arguments that folks are making. STill, I would think there would be a market for music that goes "all the way" in it's funkyness rather than water it down so that the typical R&B/top-40 crowd can feel it. I mean, why don't the musicians mentioned (Me'Shell, D'ngelo etc) just make the music they want to for heads that can hear it and fuck the rest ...?
"Yo he preferido hablar a cosas imposibles, porque de lo posible se sabe demasiado." -- Silvio Rodriguez
"if jesus was alive today he'd be incarcerated with the rest of the brothers while uh the devil would have a great apartment on the upper east side be a guest v.j. on total request live" - Me'Shell (god.fear.money)
26. "Even the old school bands...." In response to Reply # 0
were guilty of the same pleasure. For example which version of EWF's Devotion would you prefer listening to? The PFunk clan were gods in the studio but they have the produce the same enhancement as todays artists. If you don't believe, then pull out your copy of "Night of the Thumpasaurus People" and make the call. It's a new day and era where studio live shows prove your longetivity in the industry. The D'angelos, Badus & Ndegeocellos wouldn't have made it thus far along the way if it were otherwise.
_______________________________________ "...but with all music (created) by African people, there's a dangerous pattern. We create it, nurture it, elevate it and abandon it" ?uestlove ...things fall apart liner notes
"...we're moving into this electronica shit. If this is the case, then I've got to make some funky ass computers" D'Angelo 1998 XXL interview
"Of course, there's people getting rich selling horse manure, too. They're bagging that and selling it by the load, so I guess they figure, why wouldn't somebody sell music like that?" Raphael Saadiq May 10, 2000 Dallas Morning News
"the true way to judge is to peep history. once you have a grasp onto history, you can easily tell who's the shit and who's shit." - ?uestlove 9/14/2000 OkayArtist Discussion
27. "Stevie was better live" In response to Reply # 0
Litening to bootlegs from '72 and '73, there are quite a few songs that were so much better live! Though there were others that were much more enjoyable as studio productions.
"Yo he preferido hablar a cosas imposibles, porque de lo posible se sabe demasiado." -- Silvio Rodriguez
"if jesus was alive today he'd be incarcerated with the rest of the brothers while uh the devil would have a great apartment on the upper east side be a guest v.j. on total request live" - Me'Shell (god.fear.money)
32. "Probably those drum machines" In response to Reply # 0
I don't mind when a group using synthesizers has a drum machine on a track, but when someone like Jill Scott uses one with a rhodes and a bass, it just sounds lazy. The live band usually has a tighter groove.
I remember those "How to Record Funk" posts someone made a while ago… in them, didn't he say that it's actually hard to play this music live because a lot of the "grit" in the sound derives from the tape hiss and things, but played live, it sounds too clean?
those how to record funk things were just one guys opinion...
live you can really get a feel for who can play. The greats always flip something new in concert. Folks used to say "sounding like the record" in concert was a good thing...If I wanted to hear the record I would saved the money and stayed home...live, I want new arrangements, extended jams,....just live funk...
but the studio does afford the opportunity to do some different things....I just think that the studio and in concert should be looked at as two seperate entities that both deserve their own seperate attention...just down carry over the studio on to the stage...
but as much as folks have ideas about how to keep it funky in the studio, lets not forget how powerful marketing is today....
D' is a good example of this. He has been successful at walking the line between being a true funkster.....and appealing to this hip hop dominated market.. it's really hard to do that. It helps that D' doesn't oversaturate the market with his work...he can be funky and still come off as current...the females like him too so that I always helps....
i have a friend who is in the studio right now and i heard some stuff and it is so tame compared to his live stuff. i asked him why and he said, his producers told him to tone it down and save something for the live show. that's just stupid imo cuz you can always freak it for the live audience if you are truly a performer. *************************************************** * *aim me! littleishari *In heavy Rotation: Res-How I Do Mondo Grosso-MG4 Mann-Kali Nagin(DJ Karma Remix single) Sade-Lover's Rock Outkast-Stankonia
"save something for the live show" ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!
gimme a break. It is a shame that producers are taming down otherwise LIVE bands. These days the producer is just another member of the group, and while there's nothing inherently wrong with this, especially if much of how the group creates is in the studio w/ technology and all, there are ways in which a band nowadays has to be kinda schitzo ... have a studio personality and a live personality.
Will the "real" (band X) please stand up?
Then again, maybe it's not a conflict at all for some of these artists. Maybe they are comfortable with the dual personality of their art and it's fine.
"Yo he preferido hablar a cosas imposibles, porque de lo posible se sabe demasiado." -- Silvio Rodriguez
"if jesus was alive today he'd be incarcerated with the rest of the brothers while uh the devil would have a great apartment on the upper east side be a guest v.j. on total request live" - Me'Shell (god.fear.money)
one of the reasons i like her new record so much is because it's got that live session feel to it .... she and her band members are in the recording booth together ... you can feel them feeding off one another .... and adding the outtakes was just genius. It's a record that invites you in, as opposed to those that just sit and stare back at you.
_______________________________________ In Rotation: Corey Harris f/ Unspoken Heard -- Fa'shizza (remix) 4th Avenue Jones -- Move On Blackalicious -- Blazing Arrow Badly Drawn Boy -- About a Boy Koffy Brown -- Red (liquid mix) Marques Wyatt -- For those Who Get Down
{*}*{*}*{*}*{*}*{*}*{*}*{*}*{*}{*}*{*}*{*} Easy's Official SEXXY muthafucka's (Hot)List: *Ananda Lewis *Daphne Lynn Duplaix *Couta_Cat - from the personal files *Gabrielle Union *Res *Bianca Lawson *Kelis *Victoria Dillard *JazzeyFatNastees - bof of em *Cassandra Wilson
~yahoomessenger: dajazzlvr~ ~AIM: mickluvsjazz~
***************************** GyeNyame - except GOD, i fear none... ***************************** IF LOVE AIN'T SUPPORTED THEN MY LIFE GETS ABORTED WE RESORT TO INSTINCTS THAT WILL LEAVE US ALL DONE - QTip ****************************** AIM - mick
Ashantin RELIES on studio production to sustain her singing career. there really are no attributes to seeing her live _______________________________________ In Rotation: Corey Harris f/ Unspoken Heard -- Fa'shizza (remix) 4th Avenue Jones -- Move On Blackalicious -- Blazing Arrow Badly Drawn Boy -- About a Boy Koffy Brown -- Red (liquid mix) Marques Wyatt -- For those Who Get Down
naw bruh...you would really be shocked to know that her studio shit is much more fucked up than her live voice. i don't think she's all that talented to begin with but...murder inc had NO trust in her voice at all...
{*}*{*}*{*}*{*}*{*}*{*}*{*}*{*}{*}*{*}*{*} Easy's Official SEXXY muthafucka's (Hot)List: *Ananda Lewis *Daphne Lynn Duplaix *Couta_Cat - from the personal files *Gabrielle Union *Res *Bianca Lawson *Kelis *Victoria Dillard *JazzeyFatNastees - bof or em *Cassandra Wilson
~yahoomessenger: dajazzlvr~ ~AIM: mickluvsjazz~
***************************** GyeNyame - except GOD, i fear none... ***************************** IF LOVE AIN'T SUPPORTED THEN MY LIFE GETS ABORTED WE RESORT TO INSTINCTS THAT WILL LEAVE US ALL DONE - QTip ****************************** AIM - mick
60. "Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha n/m" In response to Reply # 41
"I'm tryin' to do right Easy...uh, well, now" - Mouse, Devil in a Blue Dress
What I'm Feelin'Right Now: * In the Changer: Boiler Room Soundtrack * The Gatorade Dougie Fresh commercial * Rippin and Burnin * Crate diggin on-line * Anything by DJ Funk
"Yo he preferido hablar a cosas imposibles, porque de lo posible se sabe demasiado." -- Silvio Rodriguez
"if jesus was alive today he'd be incarcerated with the rest of the brothers while uh the devil would have a great apartment on the upper east side be a guest v.j. on total request live" - Me'Shell (god.fear.money)
my answer (without reading the other posts so i may be repeating others)
studio album's are designed to reach as broad an audience as possible. to me that would mean having the music be relatively simple and catchy. more sales are generated if the songs can be firmly implanted in the minds. that's much harder to do with the more developed sounds coming from a live performance.
now that said, if you want a sure bet listen to TOSHI REAGON. she delivers the best in both arenas. i'm not kidding.
cause they are just singers... not artists. Simple answer but true...
"I'm like Aquaman and Brownhornet, Imhotep but don't flaunt it" - the mighty Black Thought
"We.. (puff, puff) gotta make some changes ya dig? (puff, puff) I mean... dayum... brothers gotta work it out (puff, puff)... What's this a Dutch? Damn you aint
Her CD had to really,really grow on me, but her live album and performances just hooked me! CD does not do her voice/talent justice to me!
"I'm tryin' to do right Easy...uh, well, now" - Mouse, Devil in a Blue Dress
What I'm Feelin'Right Now: * In the Changer: Boiler Room Soundtrack * The Gatorade Dougie Fresh commercial * Rippin and Burnin * Crate diggin on-line * Anything by DJ Funk
I realized that language is man's first music, and, consequently, I began to approach the poem with this in mind. Again, I was hungry for the essence and magic of language... ~ Yusef Komunyakaa
This time is difficult. Wait for me. We will live it out vividly. Give me your small hand: we will rise and suffer, we will feel, we will rejoice. ~Pablo Neruda
"I'm tryin' to do right Easy...uh, well, now" - Mouse, Devil in a Blue Dress
What I'm Feelin'Right Now: * In the Changer: Boiler Room Soundtrack * The Gatorade Dougie Fresh commercial * Rippin and Burnin * Crate diggin on-line * Anything by DJ Funk
after all, they are a live band their earlier live tracks have a whole other vibe
WheRE mY MiND iS At iS WheRE mY SouL iS At AnD If mY SouL's InTAcT ThEN mY MiND's InTacT
- Roots Manuva -
If YOu LoVe ThE DifFeReNcE DoNt SaY wE DidNt WaRn YoU
HeAvY RoTaTioN:
shadow & cut chemist - product placement raphael saadiq - still ray soulive f dave matthews - joyful girl bahamadia - kollage zero 7 - distractions cam f cameo - love junkee king britt - gettin into it (brother ? mix)
73. "studio/live=porn tape/actual sex" In response to Reply # 71
...at least in that the best technical performance in that controlled environment is something to tip ya hat to, but most folks would dig it more if they were there to feel it
studio is a studied effort to capture a particular feel/moment; sometimes it happens, sometimes you just wind up with 'the best take' (which might not capture the energy the artist was seeking). and that pro tools '4000 diff plug-ins to try' shit is not helping a lot of muhfuhs to bang out the takes with the most feeling- shit is like wood shop, where you keep sanding shit over & over until it's all thin and week cuz ya done too much
live is a direct energy exchange, either amongst the folks on stage, between the artist and the crowd, or both. live music is air getting shoved all over the place-and the audience breathing it
and the comments on producers have a point; there's lots of cats out there who talk about keeping it smooth in the studio and do your thang live. there was an interview with j-swift (pharcyde producer) where he said they broke all the studio rules for 'bizarre ride...', with fat lip running around the booth with the mic in hand, eff a pop filter, whatever type isht
What you see as porn someone else sees as Da Vinci... It's the eye of the beholder. We can only assess that. What makes your music beyond porn? Again, Eye of the Beholder. -jeflee, to AFKAP sparring with Coolidge
"Ten years ago, I called rap music black America's CNN. My biggest concern now is keeping it from becoming the Cartoon Network." -Chuck D
----------------------- "I'm so glad I got my own I'm so glad that I can see my life's a natural high the man can't put no thing on me" (c) Curtis Mayfield
man I wanna see her perform... I got a copy of hear me... its so ill... shit I wanna see her!!!!
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MUCH better live. Drum machines don't work well with him and the instrumentation really is similar to a rock band, lends itself to live performance. His energy and hand-gestures, too.
peace
Iz ________________________________________
"I am the IZ equals IZ..." DOVE
"I don't give a fuck who you are / so fuck who you are" STYLES
i "love" meshell's live performance, i enjoyed india.arie live... and i like bilal and musiq way better live...they have stage presence and mad energy...i love that shit!
90. "RE: "_______ is better live"" In response to Reply # 0
I feel you on this...it's seems that studio and live music is approached differently depending on the artist...sort of like that was the album, this is the show i.e. many people are split on either loving Jill Scott's album more the the live cd as supposed to the vice versa situation. Hell, Donny Hathaway's live album is, in my humble opinion, hotter than any of his studio recordings (His cover of "What's Going On" is so authentic, it blows my mind every time I hear it). Plus other variables like the audience's reaction to the songs and the tribute many artists give to other artists that influence them seem to be major factors for today's live acts...
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