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Subject: "We can all agree that RZA is the best Producer/MC right?" Previous topic | Next topic
Quez
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19684 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 11:57 AM

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"We can all agree that RZA is the best Producer/MC right?"


          


Kanye is the only one close. He's eclipsed everyone else in terms of solo success, but hasnt executive produced enough classics to stand with RZA.

Plus, regardless your temperature on his styles, RZA is a virtuoso on the mic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj7Ob92xNRM

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
RZA fucking sucks on the mic
Feb 12th 2014
1
oh...and Oddisee is better than both of them already
Feb 12th 2014
2
      eats too much monosodium glutamate
Feb 12th 2014
20
      FOH
Feb 12th 2014
29
      RE: FOH
Feb 12th 2014
35
      i agree, neither RZA or Kanye have a PHWTS
Feb 12th 2014
43
      For real...people need to be honest here
Feb 12th 2014
51
           RZA's in my top 5 producer list bc he's an innovator
Feb 12th 2014
52
           I agree
Feb 12th 2014
61
           to even be listed in this conversation, impact is a major factor
Feb 12th 2014
68
                No it's not. You said "best" not "greatest"
Feb 12th 2014
70
                     RE: No it's not. You said "best" not "greatest"
Feb 12th 2014
72
                          I can only imagine how bitch an OKP troll is in real life
Feb 12th 2014
73
                               RE: I can only imagine how bitch an OKP troll is in real life
Feb 12th 2014
75
                                    RE: I can only imagine how bitch an OKP troll is in real life
Feb 12th 2014
78
                                         RE: I can only imagine how bitch an OKP troll is in real life
Feb 13th 2014
84
      only on okp
Feb 23rd 2014
230
^^ trollin'.
Feb 12th 2014
3
^^^ Big Sean
Feb 12th 2014
4
      i rap way better than Big Sean, bro.
Feb 12th 2014
6
I don't agree with the Kanye part but I fucks wit RZA big time
Feb 12th 2014
5
I'd still give it to Q Tip
Feb 12th 2014
7
Cosign
Feb 12th 2014
9
Q-Tip is a legendary producer/artist, and dope overachieving rapper
Feb 12th 2014
14
      LOL @ throwing Tip under the bus as a lyricist then bigging up Kaney
Feb 12th 2014
47
           boogers just came out my nose
Feb 12th 2014
59
           are u stuck in 2004? shittin on Kanye as a lyricist/MC is played out dog...
Feb 12th 2014
69
           played out maybe, but no less accurate
Feb 13th 2014
133
           Yeah, Bruh....he wildin' wit dat shit!
Feb 14th 2014
145
                yeah, Q-tip is clearly LEAPS & BOUNDS above this:
Feb 14th 2014
154
                     yep he sure is
Feb 14th 2014
169
Yup. No debate for me.
Feb 12th 2014
8
Q-Tip disagree with you. Dilla Day hasn't even fallen off the calendar
Feb 12th 2014
10
How about folk list a producer's best verse below here
Feb 12th 2014
11
No one else they name will have a better verse/song than Sunshower...
Feb 12th 2014
13
Sunshower <--- This is what I was gonna post
Feb 12th 2014
15
      me too, my answer to this post is always SUNSHOWER
Feb 12th 2014
38
so if an MC produced 1 track, they qualify for this post?
Feb 12th 2014
17
I'd say they'd have needed to helm at least one project n/m
Feb 12th 2014
18
place holder for Rza's Truimph verse and
Feb 12th 2014
25
      Funcrusher El-P was a beast
Feb 12th 2014
26
           Nah
Feb 13th 2014
94
                we talking the verses
Feb 13th 2014
103
Doom?
Feb 12th 2014
12
I'M SAYINGTHO!
Feb 13th 2014
92
Damn completely forgot DOOM
Feb 13th 2014
105
      Everyone has seemingly forgotten about Doom
Feb 13th 2014
116
           I think because most think of him as a rapper who produces
Feb 13th 2014
117
                I was gonna make that point too but backspaced
Feb 13th 2014
119
You know what? I can get with this
Feb 12th 2014
16
RZA even went toe-to-toe with Ghostface on Surpreme Clientle Album
Feb 12th 2014
34
      All of the Ghost/RZA lyrical collabos are ill
Feb 12th 2014
45
           Metal sharpens metal
Feb 12th 2014
48
                Yup
Feb 13th 2014
104
                Interesting...
Feb 20th 2014
218
Quik
Feb 12th 2014
19
Beatnuts = kudos
Feb 12th 2014
24
Quik is dope but not the best producer on the mic
Feb 12th 2014
27
I think as a total package he's the best
Feb 12th 2014
28
Quik's my fav. I'd probably give Q-Tip #1 but it's close
Feb 14th 2014
165
LOL @ The Lesson. Qtip isn't better at EITHER than RZA.
Feb 12th 2014
21
well at least heads said Tip
Feb 12th 2014
23
Tip is better at rapping and on Rizz's level as a producer
Feb 12th 2014
46
RZA might be better BUT I like Q-Tip's songs/albums more
Feb 14th 2014
171
1.Rza 2.Tip 3.El-P 4.Dilla 5.Kanye
Feb 12th 2014
22
replacing Ye with DOOM
Feb 13th 2014
106
Yes. Tho I find others closer than Kanye.
Feb 12th 2014
30
What about Havoc?
Feb 12th 2014
31
RE: We can all agree that RZA is the best Producer/MC right?
Feb 12th 2014
32
nah, those are rappers that produce. not producers that rap
Feb 12th 2014
40
      Everyone's sayin Tip though
Feb 12th 2014
53
           production selections...
Feb 12th 2014
54
           I don't think Tip is better but I'm not mad at anybody choosing him
Feb 12th 2014
56
He might be the best producer/mc at producing.
Feb 12th 2014
33
^^^ Bought Nick Cannon's solo effort
Feb 12th 2014
41
      Nick Cannon is a better rapper than RZA.
Feb 13th 2014
88
Posdnuos
Feb 12th 2014
36
rakim and krs-one both produced tracks that they spit on
Feb 12th 2014
37
people need to stop namin great rappers that have looped up a few joints
Feb 12th 2014
64
      what if i don't want to?
Feb 12th 2014
66
the only two seeing rza are kanye and el-p
Feb 12th 2014
39
kanye west is not good as a rapper
Feb 12th 2014
44
El-P is definitely better than both
Feb 12th 2014
49
No
Feb 12th 2014
58
nice contribution
Feb 12th 2014
62
dude you're bugging out in this thread
Feb 12th 2014
63
      Please point me to anything I said that is "bugging out"
Feb 12th 2014
71
      Oddisee/EL-P not even seeing Black Milk real talk.
Feb 13th 2014
81
      I like Black Milk
Feb 13th 2014
86
      No Poison No Paradise shits all over Run The Jewels
Feb 13th 2014
93
           Yeah I couldn't disagree more lol
Feb 13th 2014
95
           I like Black Milk but no
Feb 13th 2014
100
           okay we agree here NPNP and Tronic are better than anything
Feb 13th 2014
109
      yeah leave now. we can't take you seriously
Feb 13th 2014
107
           Or someone can actually discuss my points
Feb 13th 2014
114
                not you fam. kid ray
Feb 13th 2014
124
                     No doubt...followed the line wrong
Feb 13th 2014
125
      Oddisee 'technically' has a better flow, but not a better rapper
Feb 13th 2014
118
           I know people don't want to go against RZA but you're wrong
Feb 13th 2014
122
                The thing that makes RZA great is that he shouldn't be
Feb 13th 2014
123
                     That's a cop out and FOH
Feb 13th 2014
126
                     1 I said Odissee was 'technically' better in my first reply
Feb 13th 2014
127
                     end post
Feb 13th 2014
131
                     I applaud the effort but you're trying way too hard my dude
Feb 13th 2014
135
                     fuck outta here... rapping like an A-game RZA takes mad skill
Feb 13th 2014
128
                          LMAO
Feb 13th 2014
130
                          cotdamn. end post part two. LOL
Feb 13th 2014
132
                          People who say "end post" are the coolest kids on the block
Feb 13th 2014
137
                          It's amazing how factually wrong you are...I applaud you
Feb 13th 2014
136
                          you keep typin up all this fuck shit cause u not a live nigga
Feb 14th 2014
138
                               Why do these posts always end up like this
Feb 14th 2014
143
                                    Look at the people responding
Feb 14th 2014
146
                                    Yeah RZA does go off beat
Feb 14th 2014
149
                                    RE: Yeah RZA does go off beat
Feb 14th 2014
157
                                    ho ass nigga, who said you have to "ride the beat" to be great?
Feb 14th 2014
151
                                    quez and imcvspl already did
Feb 14th 2014
158
                                    Just had to point out some inaccuracies
Feb 14th 2014
160
                                         ^^^met his husky ass wife at Anticon showcase
Feb 14th 2014
161
                                    i keep tryna tell yall about these fascist rap dudes & how far they go
Feb 15th 2014
177
                          base
Feb 14th 2014
139
                          Ten count it's over!!!
Feb 14th 2014
144
                     Spazzing out, beast mode, hulk angry etc
Feb 13th 2014
134
      how could ya motherfucker think ya...
Feb 13th 2014
87
           Heard all them joints before not blown away.
Feb 13th 2014
89
                that's a matter of taste, denying skills would be dumb though
Feb 13th 2014
108
                     EL-P so called "skills" are overrated imo
Feb 14th 2014
142
Dilla's best verse is on Common's Thelonius
Feb 12th 2014
77
      great verse
Feb 18th 2014
213
           i think Dilla could have evolved his rap style into somethin special
Feb 20th 2014
214
           i agree
Feb 21st 2014
219
           McNasty Filth is a pretty underrated Dilla performance
Feb 20th 2014
217
                yeah, his patterns on that were sick
Feb 21st 2014
220
no
Feb 12th 2014
42
LOL
Feb 13th 2014
110
      RZA's offbeat yell-rapping did not age well IMO
Feb 14th 2014
156
no we can't, but he's definitely on the short list
Feb 12th 2014
50
where does eminem fit in?
Feb 12th 2014
55
A rapper that produces and his beats are ass
Feb 12th 2014
57
I've skimmed through this post ...
Feb 12th 2014
60
if we're listing, put Pimp C in there as well.
Feb 12th 2014
65
      That track on Earl's album RZA did was heat.
Feb 13th 2014
90
      He kept that shit so low key ...
Feb 13th 2014
121
      dope pic... Pimp C definately was bout that live soul shit
Feb 13th 2014
129
Ghostwriters or not, I think Dre has a strong argument. NM.
Feb 12th 2014
67
Hey....Erick Sermon......Heeeeeeeeyyyyyyyy
Feb 12th 2014
74
True dat. These fucks crowing El-P he not seeing Eric Sermon.
Feb 13th 2014
82
      why i gotta be a fuck though?
Feb 13th 2014
112
I'm saying El-P. Dude is seriously underappreciated on the mic
Feb 12th 2014
76
I already got told I was bugging for saying that
Feb 12th 2014
79
      Not round these parts.
Feb 13th 2014
83
how many posts in are we? ANDRE 3000
Feb 13th 2014
80
lol. no
Feb 13th 2014
111
      excuse me but he MORE than belongs in the convo
Feb 13th 2014
120
      dude said, how many posts in are we
Feb 14th 2014
140
my favorite is either Q-Tip or El-P
Feb 13th 2014
85
Not that he's anywhere near as good a producer, but I'm gonna throw
Feb 13th 2014
91
After Skelethon I definitely feel he should be
Feb 13th 2014
98
Agreed
Feb 13th 2014
99
      I was mostly referring just to how much his production has stepped up
Feb 13th 2014
101
           Definitely agree but
Feb 13th 2014
102
eagerly awaiting mallon 2
Feb 21st 2014
224
I'm disappointed not one has even mentioned Lord Finesse
Feb 13th 2014
96
another great pick
Feb 13th 2014
97
on my list
Feb 21st 2014
222
El-P man, his catalog is insane. n/m
Feb 13th 2014
113
no, but he is def. top 10
Feb 13th 2014
115
i'll reserve judgement until i hear Pharrells new album
Feb 14th 2014
141
i can roll with it but after him the correct answer is Pimp Chad
Feb 14th 2014
147
In hip-hop, the most technically proficient does NOT equal the best.
Feb 14th 2014
148
I agree with all of this except for:
Feb 14th 2014
150
Anonymous makes a distinction between ''better'' and ''greater''...
Feb 14th 2014
152
Ignorant people force the distinction.
Feb 14th 2014
163
^^^ this nigga never lies
Feb 14th 2014
153
BASE
Feb 14th 2014
159
Everything you typed is your opinion
Feb 14th 2014
162
So do you believe Oddisee is the BEST producer/MC ever?
Feb 14th 2014
164
No
Feb 14th 2014
166
Appreciate the response. Might not agree but I can appreciate it lol
Feb 14th 2014
172
everything said here is on point, except the Osddissee shit
Feb 15th 2014
175
      pot meet dumb ass kettle
Feb 15th 2014
176
      It is not possible to agree with one point and not the other
Feb 15th 2014
178
           ^^^ Iraqi Information Minister
Feb 22nd 2014
226
                ^^Dick Cheney
Feb 22nd 2014
228
                     ^^^ Rob Pilatus
Feb 23rd 2014
231
no
Feb 14th 2014
170
So because you don't realize your opinion is your opinion...
Feb 16th 2014
181
      I act accordingly to the poster
Feb 16th 2014
183
RE: In hip-hop, the most technically proficient does NOT equal the best.
Feb 16th 2014
182
No love for Pharrell?
Feb 14th 2014
155
RZA is one of the most diverse MCs in hip hop
Feb 14th 2014
167
Respect
Feb 14th 2014
168
      a motherfucker said this 120 posts ago
Feb 14th 2014
173
           RE: a motherfucker said this 120 posts ago
Feb 14th 2014
174
                LET'S KEEP IT 100
Feb 15th 2014
179
                     im past all this shit yall talkin about but...
Feb 16th 2014
185
Whole lot of unexpected entertainment in this post.
Feb 16th 2014
180
One last thing lol, this RZA doesn't rap to the beat thing is a fallacy....
Feb 16th 2014
184
^^^ tells the truth & nothin but the truth
Feb 16th 2014
186
You really trying to prove a point huh
Feb 16th 2014
187
Just trying to offer the perspective of someone who agrees with the OP
Feb 16th 2014
188
      you should peep some early oddisee or at least 101/102
Feb 16th 2014
189
      I guess
Feb 16th 2014
190
           The content/point of references of ones similes is extremely important
Feb 16th 2014
191
                ?
Feb 16th 2014
192
                RZA will enter the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame for his producing/rapping
Feb 16th 2014
193
                RE: RZA will enter the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame for Wu impact
Feb 16th 2014
194
                Exactly
Feb 16th 2014
195
                     Rizz is a visionary, and a masterful executor
Feb 16th 2014
196
                     RE: Exactly
Feb 16th 2014
201
                          if you think OB4CL and Forever aren't pinnacle production albums
Feb 21st 2014
221
                               RZA doesn't have any INSTRUMENTAL ALBUMS
Feb 21st 2014
223
                lolol, this dude said "Rock n Roll Hall of Fame"
Feb 16th 2014
200
                Don't think I've EVER seen "regular" used as a complimentary descriptor....
Feb 16th 2014
197
                     that's a problem
Feb 16th 2014
198
                     LOL @ "a culture". We're discussing rappers and producers. Music.
Feb 16th 2014
204
                     I used regular for a reason
Feb 16th 2014
202
                          RE: I used regular for a reason
Feb 16th 2014
205
                Das Efx got all the references son
Feb 16th 2014
199
Not to mention "Wu Tang Clan Ain't Nuthin To Fuck Wit"
Feb 18th 2014
209
i agree with all this
Feb 18th 2014
212
Charles Hamilton>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Oddisee
Feb 16th 2014
203
1.DOOM.2.Ye.3.ElP.4.QTip.5.Rza.
Feb 17th 2014
206
i'd rather hear Pete, Large Pro, Black Milk or Dilla.
Feb 17th 2014
207
i was gonna say Extra P. black milk is nice. dilla was dilla.
Feb 18th 2014
208
      Pete Rock is a very uninteresting MC. But the beats!!
Feb 18th 2014
210
      Off the realest thing in life,.....
Feb 18th 2014
211
i got my emcee name ezzsential from the rza
Feb 20th 2014
215
^^^ evidence
Feb 20th 2014
216
Not better than Lord Finesse or Large Professor
Feb 22nd 2014
225
kayne is the best ever to me
Feb 22nd 2014
227
I ENJOY E-Double More, But I Can't Argue Against RZA
Feb 22nd 2014
229

Anonymous
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23226 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 11:59 AM

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1. "RZA fucking sucks on the mic"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Never liked him and never will.

  

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Anonymous
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Wed Feb-12-14 11:59 AM

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2. "oh...and Oddisee is better than both of them already"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 02:25 PM

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20. "eats too much monosodium glutamate"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

.

  

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Bombastic
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88874 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 03:12 PM

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29. "FOH"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

  

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Anonymous
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23226 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 03:35 PM

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35. "RE: FOH"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 04:47 PM

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43. "i agree, neither RZA or Kanye have a PHWTS"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

ie neither have a project they fully produced & did over 90% of the rapping that is a (yeah ima say it) classic

Kanye has ZERO albums that can touch PHWTS

RZA only has group albums and albums for other artists that are comparable

but most ppl won't hear it bc, well, People Hear What They See lolol

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Anonymous
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23226 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 05:51 PM

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51. "For real...people need to be honest here"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

It is not even remotely close to who the best MC is out of Ye, RZA and Oddisee.

Oddisee is far better on the mic.

And as far as production goes...RZA is an all-time favorite but he doesn't do anything special at all. He has his own style which is uncut raw hip-hop.

With that said, he doesn't have a solo album coming within a mile of either PHWTS or TG.

And Kanye...I don't even know the last time he actually produced his own joints. College Dropout?

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 05:57 PM

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52. "RZA's in my top 5 producer list bc he's an innovator"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

& because he helmed more classics outta one crew than seems possible

but the idea of new RZA production in 2014 does not get me too excited at all

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Anonymous
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Wed Feb-12-14 07:47 PM

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61. "I agree"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

  

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Quez
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Wed Feb-12-14 08:50 PM

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68. "to even be listed in this conversation, impact is a major factor"
In response to Reply # 51


          


who the fuck is odisseee?

  

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Anonymous
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Wed Feb-12-14 09:05 PM

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70. "No it's not. You said "best" not "greatest""
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

Learn the difference.

  

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Quez
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Wed Feb-12-14 09:17 PM

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72. "RE: No it's not. You said "best" not "greatest""
In response to Reply # 70


          

>Learn the difference.

Learn my nuts nigga









































































no homo

  

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Anonymous
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23226 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 09:20 PM

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73. "I can only imagine how bitch an OKP troll is in real life"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

You have got to be the biggest worthless piece of shit on earth to feel cool by trolling on OKP.

Do you though son.

Just know you're not fooling shit.

  

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Quez
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19684 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 09:33 PM

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75. "RE: I can only imagine how bitch an OKP troll is in real life"
In response to Reply # 73


          

>You have got to be the biggest worthless piece of shit on
>earth to feel cool by trolling on OKP.
>
>Do you though son.
>
>Just know you're not fooling shit.

ur mad?

  

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Anonymous
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Wed Feb-12-14 10:41 PM

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78. "RE: I can only imagine how bitch an OKP troll is in real life"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

>>You have got to be the biggest worthless piece of shit on
>>earth to feel cool by trolling on OKP.
>>
>>Do you though son.
>>
>>Just know you're not fooling shit.
>
>ur mad?

Ur cool?

  

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Quez
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Thu Feb-13-14 12:54 AM

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84. "RE: I can only imagine how bitch an OKP troll is in real life"
In response to Reply # 78
Thu Feb-13-14 12:56 AM by Quez

          

>>>You have got to be the biggest worthless piece of shit on
>>>earth to feel cool by trolling on OKP.
>>>
>>>Do you though son.
>>>
>>>Just know you're not fooling shit.
>>
>>ur mad?
>
>Ur cool?

Real talk: i downloaded oddissey album heard 3 dweeb rap tracks then deleted emptied recycle bin & defragged my hard drive.

Yall buggin out

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
9621 posts
Sun Feb-23-14 07:40 AM

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230. "only on okp"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

-------------------------
“Floyd Mayweather should be taking fights up to 157 or 160 pounds...His frame can hold the weight..it's not even a lot of weight....Go to the gym and lift weights man..lol.”-- Warren Coolidge

  

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MISTA MONOTONE
Member since Jan 30th 2004
58563 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 11:59 AM

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3. "^^ trollin'."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------------------
latest mixtape:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mistamonotone/music-to-smack-motherfckers-to/

mistamonotone - taboo
http://mistamonotone.bandcamp.com/album/taboo

@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

  

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Quez
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Wed Feb-12-14 12:01 PM

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4. "^^^ Big Sean"
In response to Reply # 3


          

  

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MISTA MONOTONE
Member since Jan 30th 2004
58563 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 12:31 PM

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6. "i rap way better than Big Sean, bro."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

------------------------------------------
latest mixtape:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mistamonotone/music-to-smack-motherfckers-to/

mistamonotone - taboo
http://mistamonotone.bandcamp.com/album/taboo

@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Wed Feb-12-14 12:13 PM

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5. "I don't agree with the Kanye part but I fucks wit RZA big time"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I dig his style on the mic. I'm probably in the minority though.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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PCProductions
Member since Oct 31st 2009
1217 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 12:40 PM

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7. "I'd still give it to Q Tip"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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great1 2k6
Member since Sep 27th 2005
1378 posts
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9. "Cosign"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

"he can rhyme. his music softer than muppet titties, though." IkeMoses on Drake as a credible lyricist.


Gamertag: Great1 2k7
PSN ID: Award-Tour88
Check out my soundcloud:
https://soundcloud.com/awardtour88

  

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Quez
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14. "Q-Tip is a legendary producer/artist, and dope overachieving rapper"
In response to Reply # 7


          


But I've never regarded Q-tip as a beast on a mic.

He's had a couple classic verses and many dope moments but so has RZA

More often than not Q-tip is just riding the beat and sounds dope doin it. He's no Nas/Jay/Kanye/Biggie

  

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
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47. "LOL @ throwing Tip under the bus as a lyricist then bigging up Kaney"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

the guy is NOT a lyricist, he never has been and there's no real way to put him there legitimately

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
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59. "boogers just came out my nose "
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

when i read that schitt

lol

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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Quez
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69. "are u stuck in 2004? shittin on Kanye as a lyricist/MC is played out dog..."
In response to Reply # 47


          

  

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
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133. "played out maybe, but no less accurate"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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NoDrawls McGraw
Member since Jun 24th 2007
12122 posts
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145. "Yeah, Bruh....he wildin' wit dat shit!"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

Tip is leaps above Kanye on the mic.

Don't know what kinda dust was being smoked when dude made that comment.


https://chriswind.bandcamp.com/track/massage

"You can take an African out of Africa, but you can't take Africa out of the African"
Afro-Americana/Afro-Caribbana/Afro-Latino unite. We are ALL Black!

  

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Quez
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154. "yeah, Q-tip is clearly LEAPS & BOUNDS above this:"
In response to Reply # 145


          


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghc_fc4R1rI#t=1m00s

  

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
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169. "yep he sure is"
In response to Reply # 154


  

          

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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guru0509
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8. "Yup. No debate for me."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 01:00 PM

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10. "Q-Tip disagree with you. Dilla Day hasn't even fallen off the calendar"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

yet...

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
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11. "How about folk list a producer's best verse below here"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

So we can compare.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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self_ish
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13. "No one else they name will have a better verse/song than Sunshower..."
In response to Reply # 11
Wed Feb-12-14 01:47 PM by self_ish

          

Or Twelve Jewels, Marvel, School, Night the Earth Cried, etc. Rza had multiple styles and flows, and could give you "that ignorant sh*t" or food for thought. I personally feel his first three solo projects match up well against Tip's two; and I'd take Bobby Digital in Stereo over Amplified without batting an eye. It's tough to compare the group albums 'cause Tip's rhyming contributions outnumber Rza's by a large margin. But you can't deny that Rza has memorable performances on those Wu albums. And on the beats side of the argument, Rza has at least four undeniable production classics to his name. So yeah, I'm okay with the op's proclaimation.

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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15. "Sunshower <--- This is what I was gonna post"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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cbk
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38. "me too, my answer to this post is always SUNSHOWER"
In response to Reply # 15


          

Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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17. "so if an MC produced 1 track, they qualify for this post?"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

say anybody in your top 5 all-time list

if they produced a track = best producer on the mic?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
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18. "I'd say they'd have needed to helm at least one project n/m"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 02:34 PM

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25. "place holder for Rza's Truimph verse and "
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

any El-P verses from Funcrusher Plus

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
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26. "Funcrusher El-P was a beast"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

probably on par with RZA

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Kid Ray
Member since Sep 23rd 2010
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94. "Nah"
In response to Reply # 26
Thu Feb-13-14 04:57 AM by Kid Ray

  

          

Not fucking with any top 10 RZA produced album

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
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103. "we talking the verses "
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

stay focused

  

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Abstract8
Member since Nov 01st 2007
681 posts
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12. "Doom?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
40926 posts
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92. "I'M SAYINGTHO!"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

Dumile name isn't being mentioned enough in this post

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
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105. "Damn completely forgot DOOM"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

.

  

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Abstract8
Member since Nov 01st 2007
681 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 02:03 PM

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116. "Everyone has seemingly forgotten about Doom"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
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117. "I think because most think of him as a rapper who produces"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

mainly because he mainly just produces for himself. and so much of his later work has been about other producers.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Abstract8
Member since Nov 01st 2007
681 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 02:17 PM

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119. "I was gonna make that point too but backspaced"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

He really doesn't have all that much outside production that I'm aware of at least

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
44717 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 01:37 PM

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16. "You know what? I can get with this"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Feb-12-14 01:39 PM by mrhood75

  

          

I mean, there's other guys like Large Pro, Edan, El-P, Oddisee, and other underground cats. But I'm perfectly fine with calling RZA the tops.

EDIT: The one knock I'll give RZA is that he hasn't been particularly outstanding recently. Like in the past few years. Last verse I remember really feeling by him was on the Afro Samurai soundtrack. Though I may be forgetting stuff.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Quez
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34. "RZA even went toe-to-toe with Ghostface on Surpreme Clientle Album"
In response to Reply # 16


          


u know ghost was beasting on that album

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdAjrXyoT7E

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
44717 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 05:21 PM

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45. "All of the Ghost/RZA lyrical collabos are ill"
In response to Reply # 34
Wed Feb-12-14 05:21 PM by mrhood75

  

          

Even tracks like "Marvel" and "Who's the Champion?" It seems like Ghost sets off some sort of spark in RZA.

And as much flak as "Bobby Digital" and "Digital Bullet" get, lyrically RZA murks both. High octane MCing on those albums.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
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48. "Metal sharpens metal"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

>Even tracks like "Marvel" and "Who's the Champion?" It seems
>like Ghost sets off some sort of spark in RZA.
>
>And as much flak as "Bobby Digital" and "Digital Bullet" get,
>lyrically RZA murks both. High octane MCing on those albums.

Yup. But fact of the matter is people are either RZA fans or they think he sucks. It's like if ODB were sharper people would realize he was actually spitting; if rza were looser people would appreciate his style.


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 01:23 PM

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104. "Yup"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

.

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Thu Feb-20-14 05:58 PM

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218. "Interesting..."
In response to Reply # 48


          

>It's like if ODB were sharper people
>would realize he was actually spitting; if rza were looser
>people would appreciate his style.

That sounds about right I guess...

  

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Luke Cage
Member since Dec 14th 2005
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Wed Feb-12-14 02:17 PM

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19. "Quik "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I know a lot of so called "pure" Hip Hop heads won't give Quik his just due on the mic or behind the boards but no one is a better combination to me. Some others I would include:

El-P
Rza
Large Professor
Kanye
Diamond D
Q-Tip

I might also include The Beatnuts in that mix somewhere.

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
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24. "Beatnuts = kudos"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

.

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16580 posts
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27. "Quik is dope but not the best producer on the mic"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

He's up there though.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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Luke Cage
Member since Dec 14th 2005
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28. "I think as a total package he's the best"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

Even if he isn't the #1 best producer he is in that conversation and he's in the conversation for best producer on the mic as well so I think his combined output as both puts him at the top of the list.

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51986 posts
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165. "Quik's my fav. I'd probably give Q-Tip #1 but it's close"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 02:26 PM

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21. "LOL @ The Lesson. Qtip isn't better at EITHER than RZA. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


And Tip is legend

But RZA is something different


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 02:29 PM

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23. "well at least heads said Tip"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

Noony up there saying Oddisee better than both

  

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
18115 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 05:23 PM

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46. "Tip is better at rapping and on Rizz's level as a producer"
In response to Reply # 21
Wed Feb-12-14 05:24 PM by Garhart Poppwell

  

          

about the only thing RZA may have on Tip is heady subject matter (at times) but Tip has been more consistent and had better output over that time

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51986 posts
Fri Feb-14-14 08:37 PM

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171. "RZA might be better BUT I like Q-Tip's songs/albums more"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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22. "1.Rza 2.Tip 3.El-P 4.Dilla 5.Kanye"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Feb-12-14 02:28 PM by astralblak

  

          

.

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
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106. "replacing Ye with DOOM"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

.

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
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30. "Yes. Tho I find others closer than Kanye."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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stattic
Charter member
29791 posts
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31. "What about Havoc?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Not as good as RZA imho, but up there

  

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venom36200
Member since May 28th 2010
183 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 03:25 PM

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32. "RE: We can all agree that RZA is the best Producer/MC right?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I had to think about it for a second, but Redman and Pharoahe Monch cause me to disagree with that question.


Monev360-
Listen and Believe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-1isHglhno&feature=youtu.be
https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/the-restoration/id591985048

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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40. "nah, those are rappers that produce. not producers that rap"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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Abstract8
Member since Nov 01st 2007
681 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 06:49 PM

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53. "Everyone's sayin Tip though"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

  

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cbk
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54. "production selections..."
In response to Reply # 53
Wed Feb-12-14 07:06 PM by cbk

          

first three tribe LPs (and most of the last two)
tracks on "the infamous"
"one love"
"kamaal the abstract"
"the renaissance"

i think that makes him a full producer

EDIT: i think that puts him beyond the definition of a "rapper who produces" cuz i think his contributions to the art on both production and rapping are about even.

Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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56. "I don't think Tip is better but I'm not mad at anybody choosing him"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

Dude said Redman and Pharoahe Monch though. Can't roll with those choices.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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CondoM
Member since Aug 20th 2006
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Wed Feb-12-14 03:28 PM

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33. "He might be the best producer/mc at producing."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

His rapping is sweaty ass crack.

El-P, Q-Tip and Quik are all better. I'm not even mad at people saying Oddissee, and I don't like him. Kanye is a better rapper. Hell, Scarface is a better producer than RZA is a rapper, so he's up there too.

http://www.last.fm/user/_CondoM_/

  

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Quez
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41. "^^^ Bought Nick Cannon's solo effort"
In response to Reply # 33


          


fuck you mean?

U cant tell me RZA aint spittin on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE3hb__ylG4

  

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CondoM
Member since Aug 20th 2006
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88. "Nick Cannon is a better rapper than RZA."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

He has a few dope verses. He has a thousand rubbish ones.

>
>fuck you mean?
>
>U cant tell me RZA aint spittin on this:
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE3hb__ylG4

http://www.last.fm/user/_CondoM_/

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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36. "Posdnuos"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Magnum Opus
Member since Sep 03rd 2003
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37. "rakim and krs-one both produced tracks that they spit on"
In response to Reply # 0


          

classic tracks at that, so i'd have to go with them.

also, the story goes that kane put all the records together for ain't no half steppin' and marley marl didn't think it would work.

  

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Bombastic
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64. "people need to stop namin great rappers that have looped up a few joints"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

or put some tracks together to try to crowbar in their answer.

Y'all know what the question meant.

  

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Magnum Opus
Member since Sep 03rd 2003
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66. "what if i don't want to?"
In response to Reply # 64


          

then what happens?

the original question should've already been tongue in cheek as RZA is far from great at mc'ing.

if you're combining the weight of his beats alone to account for his total, then i definitely submit a classic rhyme heavy artist who's "only looped up a couple joints" as counterpoint.

  

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cbk
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39. "the only two seeing rza are kanye and el-p"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Feb-12-14 04:08 PM by cbk

          

kanye may pass him if he keeps this superstar trajectory up while improving on the mic.

el-p is really really stepping shit up. not that he wasn't dope before on both mc-ing and production, but he's on another level now.

and i get the q-tip arguments. side note, was he in this conversation before we found out he produced most of tribe's songs??

and dilla...i'd put him here if he had just one song where he poured his soul into it rapping-wise. or had some holier-than-thou conscious shit where he was convinced his words were starting a cult. that's what leaves him out for me...he was a master at HOW he said shit, but the substance wasn't there as much as those above.

(i don't know, am i forgetting a slum/jaydee/dilla song where he did this?)


Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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44. "kanye west is not good as a rapper"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

period

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Anonymous
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49. "El-P is definitely better than both"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

Dude is VERY underrated as a rapper.

Not to mention I'll Sleep When You're Dead birthed people's favorite Kanye album

  

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Kid Ray
Member since Sep 23rd 2010
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Wed Feb-12-14 07:23 PM

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58. "No"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

  

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Anonymous
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62. "nice contribution"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

  

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guru0509
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63. "dude you're bugging out in this thread"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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Anonymous
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71. "Please point me to anything I said that is "bugging out""
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

Oddisee is a "better" MC than both RZA and Ye.

Although RZA is in my top 5 and a living legend who has had an undeniable impact...Oddisee is "technically" a "better" producer.

Ye hasn't produced anything by himself since College Dropout.

I'll Sleep When You're Dead >>>> My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy both in production and lyrically.

El-P is a very underrated MC.

  

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Kid Ray
Member since Sep 23rd 2010
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Thu Feb-13-14 12:34 AM

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81. "Oddisee/EL-P not even seeing Black Milk real talk."
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

Oddisee is mostly lesson hype, he pretty average on everything. Never felt El-P style he makes good beats but not feelin the lyrics at all.

  

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Kosa12
Member since Jul 19th 2006
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Thu Feb-13-14 01:48 AM

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86. "I like Black Milk"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

his new album is dope, but lyrically/as an MC in general he is way behind Oddisee and even further behind El-P.

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

  

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Kid Ray
Member since Sep 23rd 2010
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93. "No Poison No Paradise shits all over Run The Jewels"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

It's also better than anything Oddisee ever dropped. El-P is so overrated, he makes pretty good beats his rhymes are soso he gets a nod for being creative overall he's middle of the pack.

  

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Kosa12
Member since Jul 19th 2006
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95. "Yeah I couldn't disagree more lol"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

RTJ was my favorite album last year by a large margin. I have never really heard Milk destroy anything lyrically really, though he is a good rapper whereas el has funcrusher plus, which to me is an entire album of him destroying shit (and is an underground classic). The first thing that drew me to El's music wasn't even the beats, it was the rhymes and his unique delivery/ridiculous technical ability when it comes to rhyming. We will just agree to disagree though.

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

  

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Anonymous
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100. "I like Black Milk but no"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

NPNP is dope but Black is just serviceable on the mic.

He's above average but nohing he does stands out to me at all.

Production wise...i just happen to believe Oddisee is more versatile. He can go in different directions and sound great on everything. He also is much better at crafting his verses to fit his beats. He is in the pocket more than most rappers and on top of that he is still saying something.

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 01:29 PM

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109. "okay we agree here NPNP and Tronic are better than anything"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

Oddisee has ever made and yes Oddisee is a better rapper

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 01:25 PM

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107. "yeah leave now. we can't take you seriously"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

.

  

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Anonymous
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Thu Feb-13-14 01:56 PM

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114. "Or someone can actually discuss my points"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

That would be the intelligent thing to do.

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 04:07 PM

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124. "not you fam. kid ray"
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

  

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Anonymous
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Thu Feb-13-14 04:32 PM

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125. "No doubt...followed the line wrong "
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 02:11 PM

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118. "Oddisee 'technically' has a better flow, but not a better rapper"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

>Oddisee is a "better" MC than both RZA and Ye.

I don't care about Ye, but RZA's a better rapper

>Although RZA is in my top 5 and a living legend who has had an
>undeniable impact...Oddisee is "technically" a "better"
>producer.

You'll have to define technically better in relation to producer. Cause if you're talking techniques you may be right. But it's like with RZA's flow, the greatness is where the techniques slip into 'feel'.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Anonymous
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Thu Feb-13-14 03:19 PM

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122. "I know people don't want to go against RZA but you're wrong"
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

>>Oddisee is a "better" MC than both RZA and Ye.
>
>I don't care about Ye, but RZA's a better rapper
>

You jut are. Oddisee bas already covered more topics, bas a better flow, is a better writer from top to bottom (as in songwriter) and just has a better over all understanding of the art form. RZA is a sloppy ass MC. Falls off of the beat, very basic flow wise, people claim he "kicks knowledge" but when examples are given I do nothing but shrug. Oddisee is just naturally gifted on the mic and has that every guy honesty that people loved Ye at the beginning for and what they love Phonte for. The fact he gets overlooked is actually surprising to me.

Please point to examples of RZA greatness as an MC because he is borderline wack as shit to me.


>>Although RZA is in my top 5 and a living legend who has had
>an
>>undeniable impact...Oddisee is "technically" a "better"
>>producer.
>
>You'll have to define technically better in relation to
>producer. Cause if you're talking techniques you may be
>right. But it's like with RZA's flow, the greatness is where
>the techniques slip into 'feel'.
>

I am talking techniques. We are talking "better" here not who had the greater impact. Make a post talking about the Mount Rushmore of producers and I will bring up RZA and not Oddisee.

But the fact is that Oddisee has a better skill set on the boards. I would be willing to bet that Oddisee can knock out a RZA beat in 15 minutes but RZA would have a hard time emulating what Oddisee does. Oddisee just is more refined.

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 03:31 PM

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123. "The thing that makes RZA great is that he shouldn't be"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

You put it on paper and he should be a wack cheese ball. All those things you say to knock him down a tier actually raise him up one because he embodies the sloppy, off beat knowledge kicking MC to a fucking tee. It's not like he's trying to be sharper he's exactly what he wants to be.

It's like I was hinting at above paralleling RZA with ODB. Folk don't even think about ODB as being a talented lyracist. It's all effect. And in that regard the sloppy drunken style works because it is him. RZA is like another chamber of that.

And you'll note nobody in here mentioned a word about kicking knowledge before you. That's not what it's about. It's not even really about content. It's the embodiement of the MC. RZA can and has been lazy at times, but when he spazz's the fuck out he's kinda untouchable.

Oddisee is nice but he couldn't step up to the plate against RZA spazzing out. And that's not a knock because not many can.

>>>Oddisee is a "better" MC than both RZA and Ye.
>>
>>I don't care about Ye, but RZA's a better rapper
>>
>
>You jut are. Oddisee bas already covered more topics, bas a
>better flow, is a better writer from top to bottom (as in
>songwriter) and just has a better over all understanding of
>the art form. RZA is a sloppy ass MC. Falls off of the beat,
>very basic flow wise, people claim he "kicks knowledge" but
>when examples are given I do nothing but shrug. Oddisee is
>just naturally gifted on the mic and has that every guy
>honesty that people loved Ye at the beginning for and what
>they love Phonte for. The fact he gets overlooked is actually
>surprising to me.
>
>Please point to examples of RZA greatness as an MC because he
>is borderline wack as shit to me.
>
>
>>>Although RZA is in my top 5 and a living legend who has had
>>an
>>>undeniable impact...Oddisee is "technically" a "better"
>>>producer.
>>
>>You'll have to define technically better in relation to
>>producer. Cause if you're talking techniques you may be
>>right. But it's like with RZA's flow, the greatness is
>where
>>the techniques slip into 'feel'.
>>
>
>I am talking techniques. We are talking "better" here not who
>had the greater impact. Make a post talking about the Mount
>Rushmore of producers and I will bring up RZA and not
>Oddisee.
>
>But the fact is that Oddisee has a better skill set on the
>boards. I would be willing to bet that Oddisee can knock out
>a RZA beat in 15 minutes but RZA would have a hard time
>emulating what Oddisee does. Oddisee just is more refined.
>


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Anonymous
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Thu Feb-13-14 04:40 PM

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126. "That's a cop out and FOH"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

>You put it on paper and he should be a wack cheese ball. All
>those things you say to knock him down a tier actually raise
>him up one because he embodies the sloppy, off beat knowledge
>kicking MC to a fucking tee. It's not like he's trying to be
>sharper he's exactly what he wants to be.
>
>It's like I was hinting at above paralleling RZA with ODB.
>Folk don't even think about ODB as being a talented lyracist.
>It's all effect. And in that regard the sloppy drunken style
>works because it is him. RZA is like another chamber of
>that.
>
>And you'll note nobody in here mentioned a word about kicking
>knowledge before you. That's not what it's about. It's not
>even really about content. It's the embodiement of the MC.
>RZA can and has been lazy at times, but when he spazz's the
>fuck out he's kinda untouchable.
>
>Oddisee is nice but he couldn't step up to the plate against
>RZA spazzing out. And that's not a knock because not many
>can.
>

1 it's a cop out because your moving the goal post of what a technically skilled mc is in order to fit your agenda of championing RZA

2 FOH for saying not many can see RZA when he spazzes out. So now, not only is he better than Oddisee he among the top 10 and shit huh?

Let me very clear...RZA is NOT a good MC by any means. And I'm not continuing this convo because people who like RZA are not honest with his actual ability. I don't give a fuck if be's your favorite rapper but you're not going to tell me that he's a skilled MC.

And you still have yet to put up examples of him "spazzing out".

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 05:29 PM

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127. "1 I said Odissee was 'technically' better in my first reply"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

>1 it's a cop out because your moving the goal post of what a
>technically skilled mc is in order to fit your agenda of
>championing RZA

No goal post moved.

>2 FOH for saying not many can see RZA when he spazzes out. So
>now, not only is he better than Oddisee he among the top 10
>and shit huh?

I didn't say he was a top 10 MC either.

>Let me very clear...RZA is NOT a good MC by any means.

Let me be clear.... you are wrong.

>And
>I'm not continuing this convo because people who like RZA are
>not honest with his actual ability. I don't give a fuck if
>be's your favorite rapper but you're not going to tell me that
>he's a skilled MC.

Fusion of the five elements, to search for the higher intelligence
Women walk around celibate, living irrelevant
The most benevolent king, communication through your dreams
Mental pictures been painted, Allah's heard and seen
Everywhere, throughout your surrounding atmosphere
Troposphere, thermosphere, stratosphere
Can you imagine from one single idea, everything appeared here
Understanding makes my truth, crystal clear
Innocent black immigrants locked in housing tenements
Eighty-Five percent tenants depended welfare recipients
Stapleton's been stamped as a concentration camp
At night I walk through, third eye as bright as a street lamp
Electric microbes, robotic probes
Taking telescope pictures of globe, babies getting pierced with microchips
Stuffed inside their earlobes, then examinated
Blood contaminated, vaccinated, lives fabricated
Exaggerated authorization, Food and Drug Administration
Testing poison in prison population
My occupation to stop the inauguration of Satan
Some claim that it was Reagan, so I come to slay men
Like Bartholomew, cause every particle is physical article
Was diabolical to the last visible molecule
A spaceknight like Rom, consume planets like Unicron
Blasting photon bombs from the arm like Galvatron

A wack MC could never have penned them bars. That's barely spazz out. And I'm not even referencing what it's about, but just all the word play is on point.

Take something like

Stop the fader of the RAM, blast more watts through my pre-amp
Them can't stress the beat vamp the shit'll get blammed
At full throttle, hot lead propels throughout my nozzle
Crack your soul like bottles, leave you stiff as models
You fag, you couldn't pull one drag...off my blunt
You couldn't punch your way out of a wet paper bag
With scissors in your hands..bitch, the RZA
I stand close to walls, like number four, The Lizard
And channel through so-lar panels, blast off like Roman Candles
Rap vandals, stomp your ass like Wahoo McDaniel
You cocker spaniel dogs, can't fuck with our catalog
Put your lights out and leave your brain inside a fog

That one is like basic RZA shit but at the same time just so fucking point. He's off beat. The You couldn't punch your way out of a wet paper bag line is the perfect example. It's borderline corny, he drops it in a way that feels off beat. But at the same time it's in the midst of an internal scheme that's subtly perfect (fag, drag, bag - blunt, punch). He does the lead in rhyme scheme change effortlessly. You think hands is the rhyme word but it was actually scissors. Cocker spaniel dogs to go from one scheme to the next. Shit's beyond basic man.

You don't have to like it, but give the man his spect.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 05:52 PM

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131. "end post"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

.

  

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Anonymous
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Thu Feb-13-14 09:58 PM

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135. "I applaud the effort but you're trying way too hard my dude"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

I'm going to keep his short for you...

You can't admit to Oddisee being better technically and then continue to use an example of an internal rhyme scheme ofthe words "fag" and "bag" by RZA.

That shit isn't helping your case. It's making mine.

I will give you this though, his rhymes read a lot better than they sound.

But his sloppy delivery and pronunciation of words is terrible.

  

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Quez
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Thu Feb-13-14 05:33 PM

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128. "fuck outta here... rapping like an A-game RZA takes mad skill"
In response to Reply # 126


          


anyone can rap like Oddeiseey

that time-capsule semi-conscious dweeb rap is played out son.

dude spits with no power, no emphasis, no strength

ironically mc's like kanye and q-tip sound stronger and more sure of themselves than rappers like Osddisey. Dude is a middle of the pack underground rapper who sounds even less threating than Wale. Fuck outta here, bad bitches aint fuckin with no Oddisee. Only cornball hipster chicks who boycott deodorant go to that nigga shows, & u know it.

Q-tip while not a killer on the mic, was smooth as butter and hoes fucked with it.

RZA is an acquired taste but anyone with a brain can tell the dude is highly skilled and in character. Listen to RZA's performance on Method Man's Mr. Sandman, or all his verses on Enter The Wu. He came from the horrorcore side of things and pretty much never strayed far from it.

you like odieessee cause you a lame nigga, period

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
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Thu Feb-13-14 05:47 PM

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130. "LMAO"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

>you like odieessee cause you a lame nigga, period


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 05:58 PM

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132. "cotdamn. end post part two. LOL"
In response to Reply # 128
Thu Feb-13-14 05:58 PM by astralblak

  

          

.

  

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Anonymous
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Thu Feb-13-14 10:09 PM

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137. "People who say "end post" are the coolest kids on the block"
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

  

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Anonymous
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Thu Feb-13-14 10:07 PM

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136. "It's amazing how factually wrong you are...I applaud you"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

>
>anyone can rap like Oddeiseey
>

Not really sure what this means.

>that time-capsule semi-conscious dweeb rap is played out son.
>

What the fuck is dweeb rap?

>dude spits with no power, no emphasis, no strength
>

This is not a requirement at all and can actually work against rappers who do too much of it. Not only that, it's an inaccurate assessment of Oddisee and comes from only someone who bas never listened to him. Nas doesn't spit with any of those things and he's better than anyone you can name. But shit, you have Cam in your avi so you are more than likely ignorant as fuck not to mention as bitch as they come.

>ironically mc's like kanye and q-tip sound stronger and more
>sure of themselves than rappers like Osddisey. Dude is a
>middle of the pack underground rapper who sounds even less
>threating than Wale.

Since when was sounding threatening a requirement for an MC? You sound like a racist fuck reporting for Fox News.

Fuck outta here, bad bitches aint fuckin
>with no Oddisee. Only cornball hipster chicks who boycott
>deodorant go to that nigga shows, & u know it.
>

Huh? The fuck are you talking about?

>Q-tip while not a killer on the mic, was smooth as butter and
>hoes fucked with it.
>
>RZA is an acquired taste but anyone with a brain can tell the
>dude is highly skilled and in character. Listen to RZA's
>performance on Method Man's Mr. Sandman, or all his verses on
>Enter The Wu. He came from the horrorcore side of things and
>pretty much never strayed far from it.
>
>you like odieessee cause you a lame nigga, period

You got me there. How insightful of you. A fucking okp troll is calling someone lame. Do you know how worthless your life is my man. Your existence is shit.

  

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Quez
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Fri Feb-14-14 12:15 AM

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138. "you keep typin up all this fuck shit cause u not a live nigga"
In response to Reply # 136


          


i aint got nothin else to say to you

lol this nigga said Nas rhymes with no strength

i can tell u dont get no good pussy, FOH

  

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Kosa12
Member since Jul 19th 2006
4988 posts
Fri Feb-14-14 12:41 AM

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143. "Why do these posts always end up like this"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

like why can't you just explain why you don't like oddisee normally (it seems to be rooted in his delivery, though I'm not entirely convinvced you have actually listened to Odd that much) and then why can't he just agree to disagree with you lmao. Why the grade school insults?

anyway to weigh in on this argument, I actually disagree with both of you guys to an extent. I think Odd is a great MC, but at the same time I don't think he has ever reached the heights that RZA has when he was "spazzing out". I also don't think he is in the greatest producer/rapper conversation in a world where there is Doom/El-p/Lord Finesse/Q-Tip. PHWTS is not a classic, thats crazy talk, that album isn't even three years old yet.....This is coming from someone who loved Tangible Dream btw (I don't understand how anyone can listen to even one track off of that and say "anyone" can rap like that), that was one of my favorite albums of last year. I wouldn't call RZA an amazing MC, but when he goes in...he GOES IN... its pretty obvious that he isn't "horrible" or anything close to that, he is a monster when he wants to be and that is often when he is as a guest on other Wu Tang member's projects for some reason (or with the Wu as a group obviously). There are tons of classic RZA verses. For what its worth though, currently Odd is probably a better MC than RZA. I don't really understand the argument that Odd sucks because he doesn't sound "threatening" or have "strength in his voice", because I think he has a great delivery/voice for rapping in general and sounding extremely agressive isn't exactly what makes one a good rapper, as Kanye did that all over Yeezus and sounded like absolute dog shit (and I'm a big fan of CD,LR and MBTDF). Anyway, my vote would probably go to Q-Tip or El-P anyway....

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

  

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Anonymous
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Fri Feb-14-14 06:49 AM

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146. "Look at the people responding"
In response to Reply # 143
Fri Feb-14-14 06:55 AM by Anonymous

  

          

Quez
Southphillyman
Astrablak
Kid Ray

These are all known fake internet okp thugs.

I'm done responding to them.

I'm allowing myself to be dragged down to their level which is what they want.

Lol @ rapping with strength. Who the fuck has ever said that before.

And thanks for the summary. I agree with what you said.

RZA is not horrible as I have said because at times he does go in. Overall I do think ge is a sloppy MC and has trouble riding the beat which is a huge negative in my opinion.

Like I said in the entire post, Oddisee is not greater than RZA and can't come close to comparing to RZA's production catalogue.

However, this post said who was "better" and I'm standin by Oddisee because he is technically better at both. And while PHWTS or TD aren't classics yet, they're better than RZA solo albums.

  

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Kosa12
Member since Jul 19th 2006
4988 posts
Fri Feb-14-14 10:45 AM

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149. "Yeah RZA does go off beat"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

but to be honest he is one of those MCs (to me at least) that can go off beat and create his own "counter rhythm" (or to be honest sometimes....counter chaos lmao...vocally) that even though is off beat can still sound good, especially when he is going in. El-P in his Fan Dam/Cold Vein days also went off beat, but was still dope as shit. And for the hell of it MF Doom never raps with "strength" and is still dope as shit and is definitely a better rapper than Kanye West and is at least technically better, as a lyricist, than Q-Tip (though I definitely like Q-Tip more). Anyway, in terms of Odd's solo albums being better, I'd probably agree with you, but I haven't heard RZA solo records in a while, because I didn't get that into them...and yeah, Agreed, RZA's production catologue slays Odd (RZA=in my top 3 producers) but I wouldn't say Odd is "technically" better but we can agree to disagree.

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

  

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Anonymous
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Fri Feb-14-14 12:53 PM

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157. "RE: Yeah RZA does go off beat"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

>but to be honest he is one of those MCs (to me at least) that
>can go off beat and create his own "counter rhythm" (or to be
>honest sometimes....counter chaos lmao...vocally) that even
>though is off beat can still sound good, especially when he is
>going in.

There is a difference between counter-rhythm and being off beat. I'm not saying I need an MC to match the beat but wherever his rhymes are falling, they need to still be on the beat. To me, RZA is off beat at times and comes off uncomfortable sounding.

El-P in his Fan Dam/Cold Vein days also went off
>beat, but was still dope as shit

I'll have to listen again but he does goes off beat as well at times.

And for the hell of it MF
>Doom never raps with "strength" and is still dope as shit and
>is definitely a better rapper than Kanye West and is at least
>technically better, as a lyricist, than Q-Tip (though I
>definitely like Q-Tip more).

I'm not even entertaining this "raps with strength" bullshit. That's the dumbest shit said in this whole post.

Anyway, in terms of Odd's solo
>albums being better, I'd probably agree with you, but I
>haven't heard RZA solo records in a while, because I didn't
>get that into them...and yeah, Agreed, RZA's production
>catologue slays Odd (RZA=in my top 3 producers) but I wouldn't
>say Odd is "technically" better but we can agree to disagree.
>

Yea we'll agree to disagree. I just see Oddisee doing more with his production as far as the technical aspect goes. Look at when 8 Diagrams dropped, it was like a big deal that RZA was using live instruments and he was talking about how he understands music more now. I just feel like Oddisee has that skill set more naturally.

  

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Quez
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Fri Feb-14-14 11:16 AM

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151. "ho ass nigga, who said you have to "ride the beat" to be great?"
In response to Reply # 146


          


Common and Jay-Z's master of off-beat, unorthodox flows made them legendary MC's prior to thier commercial fame. Lauryn Hill as well.

Have you ever heard the Resurrection album fuck boy? Is COmmon "riding the beat" lame ass nigga?

lol. I was done with this shit, but i feel this is an important point. If you like low-testosterone dweeb rap then go ahead do it. They make that shit for people like you. Live ass niggas like me dont listen to that shit you feel me?

when it comes to RZA's rhyming, he's mastered many off-beat unothodox cadences over the years to perfect effect. And approached the mic with a ferociousness and alpha-male sensibility that even the most commercial-pop bitch has to respect. It's primal. These dudes like Ossdessisy rap like they have no nuts. Shit's garabage. Niggas sound like they rapping for our approval & acceptance.

that ho ass rap is perfect for you cause you can relate

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Fri Feb-14-14 01:58 PM

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158. "quez and imcvspl already did"
In response to Reply # 143


  

          

but Noony can't take people's ideas/opinion or humor on rap because he IS THE AUTHORITY, so he gets all defensive and pretends he doesn't understand, or gets hella dismissive because he was proven wrong.

dude says Rza is wack on the mic. not aight, not "not his cup of tea", not good for what he does. wack! that's a laughable position.

than he tries and cyse "fag" "bag" rhyme schemes when he loves groups/rappers like Mobb Deep and AZ. it's rather idiotic.

than he pretends Oddisee has anything on par with 36, Forever, SC, OB4CL, Return to the 36, Ironman, Liquid, shit even Tical; RZA has verses ON ALL THOSE LPs. Hell, Bobby Digital is as good as anything Oddisee has EVER released.

but the Lesson's white gatekeepers have spoken, so we'll take our invalid OPINIONs on rap back to the ether. sorry massa

  

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Anonymous
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160. "Just had to point out some inaccuracies "
In response to Reply # 158


  

          


>than he tries and cyse "fag" "bag" rhyme schemes when he loves
>groups/rappers like Mobb Deep and AZ. it's rather idiotic.
>

I have never talked about Mobb Deep on here outside of Infamous and Hell On Earth. Infamous is an all-time classic but other than that, they aren't even in my top 10 duo/groups so I'm nkt really sure what you're talking about.

AZ on the other hand I do champion and there isn't one producer in this post remotely close to his skill level on the mic so your comment in response to me laughing at an example of "fag" and "bag" is what really is laughable.

>than he pretends Oddisee has anything on par with 36, Forever,
>SC, OB4CL, Return to the 36, Ironman, Liquid, shit even Tical;
>RZA has verses ON ALL THOSE LPs.

I actually said the exact opposite of this so excuse me for not taking anythin you say seriously. You seem to have poor comprehension skills and this isn't the first post it has been proven. It's ok man, be proud of that GED.

Hell, Bobby Digital is as
>good as anything Oddisee has EVER released.
>

Nah. It's not better. But we can agree to disagree there.

>but the Lesson's white gatekeepers have spoken, so we'll take
>our invalid OPINIONs on rap back to the ether. sorry massa

LOL that's always the go to stock answer huh? You honestly can't think of anything else?

I raised very good points here and others proceeded to call me lame because they think Oddisee is "dweeb rap" yet I'm the one who is the auhority?

Nah fuck that.

You can't keep bitching about not agreeing with my opinion because you're essentially doing the same thing you're acusing me of. So I said RZA was wack...fucking deal with it and stop being a bitch.

Y'all cats have no valid reason for shitting on Oddisee and it is a clear reaction to my opinion on RZA. Do you know how bitch of an emotional reaction that shit is?

  

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Quez
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Fri Feb-14-14 03:51 PM

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161. "^^^met his husky ass wife at Anticon showcase"
In response to Reply # 160


          

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Sat Feb-15-14 03:09 PM

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177. "i keep tryna tell yall about these fascist rap dudes & how far they go"
In response to Reply # 143


  

          

to preserve their idea of what "real" hip-hop is

some of em actually know their shit but a dude like Quez tryna compensate for his lack of knowledge by claiming "live" status that most likely no way reflects his actual life

just another loudmouth bully who doesn't hear shit but the chatter from his own stunted brain

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Feb-14-14 12:22 AM

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139. "base"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          


>
>you like odieessee cause you a lame nigga, period

~~~~~~

  

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Kid Ray
Member since Sep 23rd 2010
1702 posts
Fri Feb-14-14 12:48 AM

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144. "Ten count it's over!!!"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

>
>anyone can rap like Oddeiseey
>
>that time-capsule semi-conscious dweeb rap is played out son.
>
>dude spits with no power, no emphasis, no strength
>
>ironically mc's like kanye and q-tip sound stronger and more
>sure of themselves than rappers like Osddisey. Dude is a
>middle of the pack underground rapper who sounds even less
>threating than Wale. Fuck outta here, bad bitches aint fuckin
>with no Oddisee. Only cornball hipster chicks who boycott
>deodorant go to that nigga shows, & u know it.
>
>Q-tip while not a killer on the mic, was smooth as butter and
>hoes fucked with it.
>
>RZA is an acquired taste but anyone with a brain can tell the
>dude is highly skilled and in character. Listen to RZA's
>performance on Method Man's Mr. Sandman, or all his verses on
>Enter The Wu. He came from the horrorcore side of things and
>pretty much never strayed far from it.
>
>you like odieessee cause you a lame nigga, period

  

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Lil Rabies
Member since Oct 12th 2005
1586 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 09:32 PM

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134. "Spazzing out, beast mode, hulk angry etc"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

Only gifted MCs can get to another level. Your posting is impressive as of late. So has my lurking, I suppose.

Taking shots in the dark/that's a bad call
Going straight for your head/ gotta saw it off

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 01:57 AM

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87. "how could ya motherfucker think ya..."
In response to Reply # 63
Thu Feb-13-14 01:59 AM by imcvspl

  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4hYwYJBIzA&t=39
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ9jaLshxIU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k47VVqMiUTg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m7E0Gk8gLI&t=116

i don't agree with the original statement but... I digress

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Kid Ray
Member since Sep 23rd 2010
1702 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 02:34 AM

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89. "Heard all them joints before not blown away."
In response to Reply # 87
Thu Feb-13-14 02:37 AM by Kid Ray

  

          

He spittin blahbuhdee blah blah raps over some good not great beats. I'll take the Beatnuts Take it or Squeeze it over any El-P album.

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 01:28 PM

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108. "that's a matter of taste, denying skills would be dumb though"
In response to Reply # 89
Thu Feb-13-14 01:38 PM by imcvspl

  

          

and i said i didn't agree with dude's opinion on him being better than both, but i'm not going to pretend like he don't have a right to it based on El's skills on the mic.


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Kid Ray
Member since Sep 23rd 2010
1702 posts
Fri Feb-14-14 12:38 AM

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142. "EL-P so called "skills" are overrated imo"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

He's a good producer and he's decent on the mic. Me personally I'm not rapping along wit dude or rewinding his bars. I don't hear the greatness this site says he has.

  

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PCProductions
Member since Oct 31st 2009
1217 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 10:01 PM

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77. "Dilla's best verse is on Common's Thelonius"
In response to Reply # 39


          

Whether or not that qualifies for what you're going for I'm unsure about, but that's "his" verse.

  

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cbk
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Tue Feb-18-14 05:51 PM

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213. "great verse"
In response to Reply # 77


          

he killed that.

i also loved "fuck the police," probably cuz we knew the backstory from what his mom mentioned in an interview (getting pulled over). he was inspired in that song. you can tell it was personal.


Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

  

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Quez
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Thu Feb-20-14 10:44 AM

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214. "i think Dilla could have evolved his rap style into somethin special"
In response to Reply # 213


          


had put more effort and time into that side of things.

He was no outstanding rapper but his approach to the verse rhythmicly and humor caught me off guard a couple times. That's a good thing.

  

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cbk
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Fri Feb-21-14 12:54 PM

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219. "i agree"
In response to Reply # 214


          

i saw his raps as an extension of his beats. but yeah, every once in a while he caught me with something clever/witty.

the "mca bootleg" was interesting cuz he had the time to concentrate on his rhymes. i gotta listen to that again.


Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

  

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PCProductions
Member since Oct 31st 2009
1217 posts
Thu Feb-20-14 05:31 PM

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217. "McNasty Filth is a pretty underrated Dilla performance"
In response to Reply # 213


          

I mean, I understand that his subject matter is a little... trite, but to compartmentalize his syllables on top of Madlib's strangely placed hi hats sort of goes under the radar upon first listen. The more I listen to that track, I find myself really feeling the "fun" that he was having on that album, and it was pretty brilliant in its own way. Dilla could really hold down a track in his day.

  

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cbk
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Fri Feb-21-14 12:57 PM

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220. "yeah, his patterns on that were sick"
In response to Reply # 217


          

to the hi-hat, like you said.

W2D was the first time i thought "wow, he's really stepping up his rapping." and that first track off jaylib furthered that.


Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 04:41 PM

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42. "no"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i just listened to Enter the Wu Tang today & NO

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 01:30 PM

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110. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

yes and that album is why

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Fri Feb-14-14 12:25 PM

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156. "RZA's offbeat yell-rapping did not age well IMO"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
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Wed Feb-12-14 05:50 PM

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50. "no we can't, but he's definitely on the short list"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

now THAT I don't think anyone would dispute
and shame on you for saying only Kaney is close, that's just unfathomably ridiculous

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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cbk
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Wed Feb-12-14 07:08 PM

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55. "where does eminem fit in?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16580 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 07:14 PM

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57. "A rapper that produces and his beats are ass"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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QBoogie
Member since Jun 05th 2002
5885 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 07:37 PM

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60. "I've skimmed through this post ..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

... and I feel like it lacks the names of Havoc, Beatnuts, Large Pro, Diamond D, Dilla, Quik, Three 6, and out of the new school I would say KRIT, and would think about typing J Cole.

Rza has been mailing in shit as of lately, but when he's on that mo' fucka is on.

That's all I bring to the table for now.

  

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Bombastic
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65. "if we're listing, put Pimp C in there as well."
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

>... and I feel like it lacks the names of Havoc, Beatnuts,
>Large Pro, Diamond D, Dilla, Quik, Three 6, and out of the new
>school I would say KRIT, and would think about typing J Cole.
>
>Rza has been mailing in shit as of lately, but when he's on
>that mo' fucka is on.
>
>That's all I bring to the table for now.

  

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Kid Ray
Member since Sep 23rd 2010
1702 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 02:55 AM

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90. "That track on Earl's album RZA did was heat."
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

  

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QBoogie
Member since Jun 05th 2002
5885 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 03:02 PM

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121. "He kept that shit so low key ..."
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

... I tend to forget. Hell yeah, put Pimp C on that bitch too.

  

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Quez
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129. "dope pic... Pimp C definately was bout that live soul shit"
In response to Reply # 65


          

  

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VerbalK420
Member since Feb 28th 2003
143 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 08:40 PM

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67. "Ghostwriters or not, I think Dre has a strong argument. NM."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Wed Feb-12-14 09:30 PM

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74. "Hey....Erick Sermon......Heeeeeeeeyyyyyyyy"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Kid Ray
Member since Sep 23rd 2010
1702 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 12:49 AM

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82. "True dat. These fucks crowing El-P he not seeing Eric Sermon."
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 01:37 PM

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112. "why i gotta be a fuck though?"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

not my fault you don't like spit. oh you like a particular type of spit. but let a cat start stringing together multis and it's just 'too much' for ya. that's cool. you can peace with e double and his lispy rakim slow flow. i like him a lot. bought all they albums. can spit plenty of his verses. but recognize that el-p would rap circles around him, because el is a rapping circles around cats type of rapper. eric is a let me tell you how it is type of rapper. not many let me tell you how it is rappers can compare to *good* rapping circles around cats types of rappers. bad ones are just bad, no doubt. El is a good if not great one.

this objective talk cause i love em all. recognize that and put ya dick back in ya pants.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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TomWaitsInOkkervil
Member since Feb 07th 2009
1229 posts
Wed Feb-12-14 09:46 PM

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76. "I'm saying El-P. Dude is seriously underappreciated on the mic"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Feb-12-14 09:47 PM by TomWaitsInOkkervil

  

          

Shit, not just anyone can hold their own with Killer Mike for a whole album, and El-P's catalog as a producer and rapper are top notch and extremely consistent almost 20 years in now.

Never like RZA much on the mic personally.

  

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Anonymous
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79. "I already got told I was bugging for saying that"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

  

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Kid Ray
Member since Sep 23rd 2010
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Thu Feb-13-14 12:52 AM

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83. "Not round these parts. "
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

  

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Jon
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80. "how many posts in are we? ANDRE 3000"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 01:31 PM

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111. "lol. no"
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

.

  

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Jon
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120. "excuse me but he MORE than belongs in the convo"
In response to Reply # 111


          

and this is coming from a huge Quik and RZA fan

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Feb-14-14 12:23 AM

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140. "dude said, how many posts in are we"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

lol

~~~~~~

  

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Kosa12
Member since Jul 19th 2006
4988 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 01:15 AM

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85. "my favorite is either Q-Tip or El-P"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Feb-13-14 01:17 AM by Kosa12

  

          

I'd probably give the nudge to Tip if I had to decide though. RZA is a top 3 producer for me (ahead of both, easily), but on the mic he is allot worse than those dudes IMO. I don't think its crazy to call him the best though. For what its worth I love Odd, but I don't think he is in the conversation atm

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

  

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Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
40926 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 03:44 AM

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91. "Not that he's anywhere near as good a producer, but I'm gonna throw"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Aesop Rock's name into the ring

And what about El-P?

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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amplifya7
Member since Feb 07th 2010
2989 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 10:13 AM

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98. "After Skelethon I definitely feel he should be "
In response to Reply # 91
Thu Feb-13-14 10:22 AM by amplifya7

          

Skelethon is better than any of the new El-P albums (C4C, RTJ, RAP Music)...it's THAT good

Was coming into the thread to cosign Oddisee/El-P/KRIT/Black Milk and add Aesop, and maybe Blu, and Blueprint

RZA's work as a producer is infinitely better than as a rapper to me

Also gonna add Kokayi, Deacon The Villain, and Cryptic One...they are great at both to me

Bandcamp/IG/FB/Twitter: @hecticzeniths

  

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Anonymous
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Thu Feb-13-14 10:38 AM

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99. "Agreed"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

People don't realize because of the voice probably but Aesop is insane on the mic.

Lyrically there really aren't many better. Concepts, metaphors, stories, wordplay...he's on another level and the way he goes about crafting songs is great.

And then you have his delivery. Versatile, complex, in the pocket. Dude has really improved. Skelethon and None Shall Pass are both great albums.

There is not a soul on this Earth that can make a case that RZA or Ye can rap better than Aesop. They actually arent even remotely close to him.

Production-wise he has also improved. Skelethon was damn near flawless on the production end.

Again, not many are going to be able to match RZA's track record and he was the mastermind behind crafting those albums with the interludes etc so he is one of the best ever. But as far as his skill level in actual beat making...that to me was never his strong point. The Wu movement and those MCs played a larger part in the classics than his actual beats. But like I said, he gets all the credit in the world for masterminding the whole thing.

  

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amplifya7
Member since Feb 07th 2010
2989 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 10:50 AM

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101. "I was mostly referring just to how much his production has stepped up"
In response to Reply # 99


          

>Production-wise he has also improved. Skelethon was damn near
>flawless on the production end.

He has always been a great rapper to me even back to his earliest stuff, but production wise he has slowly gotten better and better.

Before None Shall Pass, I think the Blockhead (and occasional El-P, Blueprint) beats were mostly stronger than the beats he was doing on his albums. By 2007 on NSP, he held his own with Blockhead. 5 years later, the production on Skelethon, IMO, is actually better than a lot of Blockhead/El-P stuff. Shits incredible.

Bandcamp/IG/FB/Twitter: @hecticzeniths

  

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Anonymous
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Thu Feb-13-14 10:58 AM

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102. "Definitely agree but"
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

>>Production-wise he has also improved. Skelethon was damn
>near
>>flawless on the production end.
>
>He has always been a great rapper to me even back to his
>earliest stuff, but production wise he has slowly gotten
>better and better.
>
>Before None Shall Pass, I think the Blockhead (and occasional
>El-P, Blueprint) beats were mostly stronger than the beats he
>was doing on his albums. By 2007 on NSP, he held his own with
>Blockhead. 5 years later, the production on Skelethon, IMO,
>is actually better than a lot of Blockhead/El-P stuff. Shits
>incredible.

I have been listening to him a lot lately, and I know people usually champion the "classics" which in his case seems to be Labor Days to people. And while that is a great album, when I play all his records, i just think he has drastically stepped up on the mic along with production. At times before it was more about what he said and sometimes his delivery was whatever, but on these past two albums he has really improved on his rhymes schemes and delivery. Like the last track on None Shall Pass for instance...he destroys that shit.

  

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cbk
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Fri Feb-21-14 06:33 PM

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224. "eagerly awaiting mallon 2"
In response to Reply # 91


          

between the first HMM album and "skelethon" aesop really impressed me with his range.

HMM was stripped-down and fun.

"skelethon" was a huge, dense, emotional, beast lp.

don't sleep on rob sonic either. his beats and raps are up there with aes.



Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

  

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Sleepy
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Thu Feb-13-14 09:21 AM

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96. "I'm disappointed not one has even mentioned Lord Finesse"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

He's held it down on the mic and the boards for a while now. I think he's underrated at both.

You're such pests...now, what is it you want? In your depths of your ignorance, what is it you want? Well, whatever it is you want, I can't deliver because I just don't see it. - Orson Welles


Never Tired, Always Sleepy

  

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Kosa12
Member since Jul 19th 2006
4988 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 09:56 AM

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97. "another great pick"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

  

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Roadblock
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222. "on my list "
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

@GetoutTheroom
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
******************************************
https://twitter.com/Jayric

  

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Jayson Willyams
Member since Nov 18th 2004
3260 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 01:51 PM

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113. "El-P man, his catalog is insane. n/m"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

__________
YARDS

  

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judono
Member since Nov 11th 2004
4417 posts
Thu Feb-13-14 01:59 PM

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115. "no, but he is def. top 10"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Theres a grip of rapping ass producing ass mcs that are nice with their stuff

* * * * =========
* * * * =========
* * * * =========
==============
==============

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Feb-14-14 12:24 AM

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141. "i'll reserve judgement until i hear Pharrells new album"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

sike, that shit Rza

~~~~~~

  

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JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
28487 posts
Fri Feb-14-14 09:22 AM

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147. "i can roll with it but after him the correct answer is Pimp Chad"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Feb-14-14 09:23 AM by JAESCOTT777

  

          

then

Ye
J dilla
Pharrell
El P
Qtip
Erick Sermon
Diamond D



i actually think(even tho I'm not a huge fan of his music) J Cole should be mentioned cause technically he is a better RAPPER than anyone on these lists

but if you really wanna keep it funky i have heard that Kane really produced his 1st 2 albums ijs

  

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self_ish
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Fri Feb-14-14 10:40 AM

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148. "In hip-hop, the most technically proficient does NOT equal the best."
In response to Reply # 0


          

That whole Oddisee segment up there^^^ is mindboggling to me. I totally understand the subjective nature of these discussions due to personal preference and all; but to say that Oddisee is the greatest producer/MC of all time...in the ENTIRE history of hip-hop all time??? Even if you just pair it down to a RZA vs. Oddisee debate, like, seriously? Because Oddisee stays in pocket on beat more? That trumps the advantage RZA has in the showmanship, energy, emotion, wisdom, vocal dynamics, etc. departments?

RZA can go from battle rap to confrontational to reflective to motivational to misogynist to lover. Love Jones to Domestic Violence. Must Be Bobby to Be a Man. It's Yourz and Duck Season to A Better Tomorrow and Impossible. Dangerous Minds to Twelve Jewelz. I Can't Go to Sleep to Grits. And he provides the necessary variation in his delivery based upon the subject matter 'cause that's what a performer is supposed to do. RZA raps from a place of authority, experience, book/street/business/self/spiritual knowledge and so on, and it gives his music life, and depth. When someone can take on a persona for an entire project and make engaging music as that character, that shows range. And when someone can effectively make songs rooted in indulging in one's base desires as well as seeking to master one's self I care to know about their journey and how they reached that point.

Comparing these two is like contrasting a super hero against their mild-mannered daily persona counterpart. Oddisee is good to great at what he does, and he consistently releases solid product. But I feel very little when I listen to it. And while RZA brims with style, Oddisee comes off mad regular. Making everyman music and embodying that is cool. But his story/persona isn't compelling to me. And while his beats are solid, much of his output sounds sterile to my ear. So while RZA might not demonstrate as great a focus on the technical aspects of rapping and production, when I hear those Glaciers of Ice, Ice Cream, 4th Chamber beats or hear him shouting Bring the motherfucking ruckus, or Wu-Tang Clan ain't nothing to fuck with, it shakes something within me. Those off kilter elements that RZA would throw into those beats gave them character and soul. And I don't care if all he did was loop a couple of bars of Al Green on 260, it works! It suites the rappers performing on it. And that matters more to me than the degree of difficulty of the sample chopped, or the drums programmed.

  

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Kosa12
Member since Jul 19th 2006
4988 posts
Fri Feb-14-14 10:57 AM

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150. "I agree with all of this except for:"
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

the parts about not feelin' Oddisee that much, because I'm a big Oddisee fan, but that isn't really a big deal. This is good posting. I also think RZA IS a "technically skilled" lyricist in terms of rhyming/writing....dude just goes off beat, but it really fits with the personality. His top verses are legendary.

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Fri Feb-14-14 11:16 AM

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152. "Anonymous makes a distinction between ''better'' and ''greater''..."
In response to Reply # 148


          

He has come up with his definitions for those terms that means that "better"=more technically accomplished. If you don't agree with that, you are wrong because "more technically accomplished" is OF COURSE 100% objective. The part *I* don't get is in which dictionary definition "more technically accomplished"="better".

Basically, these discussions have nothing to do with music at the core but is rather about semantics or some shit; why people even bother with this drivel is beyond me.

Oh yeah, Joe Satriani is of course better than Jimi Hendrix. I mean, he's both faster and tighter and is more versatile in terms of his scale-choices; that his music fucking blows and that he hasn't made a single solo as memorable as Jimi's 30 best (oh sorry, "greatest") or were nowhere near as innovative and important doesn't matter obviously, he's still "better"... *SMH*

  

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Anonymous
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Fri Feb-14-14 04:01 PM

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163. "Ignorant people force the distinction."
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

>He has come up with his definitions for those terms that
>means that "better"=more technically accomplished. If you
>don't agree with that, you are wrong because "more technically
>accomplished" is OF COURSE 100% objective. The part *I* don't
>get is in which dictionary definition "more technically
>accomplished"="better".
>
>Basically, these discussions have nothing to do with music at
>the core but is rather about semantics or some shit; why
>people even bother with this drivel is beyond me.
>
>Oh yeah, Joe Satriani is of course better than Jimi Hendrix. I
>mean, he's both faster and tighter and is more versatile in
>terms of his scale-choices; that his music fucking blows and
>that he hasn't made a single solo as memorable as Jimi's 30
>best (oh sorry, "greatest") or were nowhere near as innovative
>and important doesn't matter obviously, he's still "better"...
>*SMH*

If you don't get it then hey...the shoe fits.

There's really nothing to be mad about. That's the funny shit to me.

  

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Quez
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Fri Feb-14-14 11:18 AM

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153. "^^^ this nigga never lies"
In response to Reply # 148


          

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Fri Feb-14-14 02:39 PM

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159. "BASE"
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

.

  

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Anonymous
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23226 posts
Fri Feb-14-14 03:59 PM

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162. "Everything you typed is your opinion"
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

>That whole Oddisee segment up there^^^ is mindboggling to me.
>I totally understand the subjective nature of these
>discussions due to personal preference and all; but to say
>that Oddisee is the greatest producer/MC of all time...in the
>ENTIRE history of hip-hop all time???

Never said he was the greatest of all-time. Get yur research right before you post.

Even if you just pair it
>down to a RZA vs. Oddisee debate, like, seriously? Because
>Oddisee stays in pocket on beat more? That trumps the
>advantage RZA has in the showmanship, energy, emotion, wisdom,
>vocal dynamics, etc. departments?
>

Showmanship? Really? Lol

>RZA can go from battle rap to confrontational to reflective to
>motivational to misogynist to lover. Love Jones to Domestic
>Violence. Must Be Bobby to Be a Man. It's Yourz and Duck
>Season to A Better Tomorrow and Impossible. Dangerous Minds to
>Twelve Jewelz. I Can't Go to Sleep to Grits. And he provides
>the necessary variation in his delivery based upon the subject
>matter 'cause that's what a performer is supposed to do. RZA
>raps from a place of authority, experience,
>book/street/business/self/spiritual knowledge and so on, and
>it gives his music life, and depth. When someone can take on a
>persona for an entire project and make engaging music as that
>character, that shows range. And when someone can effectively
>make songs rooted in indulging in one's base desires as well
>as seeking to master one's self I care to know about their
>journey and how they reached that point.
>

Just because you go from one thing to the next doesn't mean you're good though. This is where people become ignorant. You can write a wack rhyme for everyone of those styles and still claim you're one the greatest because you covered the land by your theory. That simply isn't true. You're only as good as your skill set period.

>Comparing these two is like contrasting a super hero against
>their mild-mannered daily persona counterpart. Oddisee is good
>to great at what he does, and he consistently releases solid
>product. But I feel very little when I listen to it. And while
>RZA brims with style, Oddisee comes off mad regular. Making
>everyman music and embodying that is cool. But his
>story/persona isn't compelling to me. And while his beats are
>solid, much of his output sounds sterile to my ear. So while
>RZA might not demonstrate as great a focus on the technical
>aspects of rapping and production, when I hear those Glaciers
>of Ice, Ice Cream, 4th Chamber beats or hear him shouting
>Bring the motherfucking ruckus, or Wu-Tang Clan ain't nothing
>to fuck with, it shakes something within me. Those off kilter
>elements that RZA would throw into those beats gave them
>character and soul. And I don't care if all he did was loop a
>couple of bars of Al Green on 260, it works! It suites the
>rappers performing on it. And that matters more to me than the
>degree of difficulty of the sample chopped, or the drums
>programmed.

You said "to me" and "in my opinion" throughout tbe entire paragraph so I won't respond. That's cool if that's how you feel. I don't argue opinions. But to act like the technical aspect isn't real is ignorant.

  

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self_ish
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Fri Feb-14-14 04:39 PM

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164. "So do you believe Oddisee is the BEST producer/MC ever?"
In response to Reply # 162


          

And if not, who would you say is better, and why? And also, you scoff at the mention of showmanship? So if someone said that Sticky Fingaz verse on Strange Fruit was a remarkable display of theatrics/performance, would you laugh at that as well? Does all that matter when it comes to gauging ones rapping ability is how in-sync with the drum(s) their flows are, how relatable (to the average, common man) their raps are, and if they use multis?

Help us out here. Give me an example of what you would say is a top notch verse or performance from Oddisee. No snark.

  

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Anonymous
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Fri Feb-14-14 05:27 PM

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166. "No"
In response to Reply # 164


  

          

>And if not, who would you say is better, and why?

Q-Tip is on top right now because he is the best of both worlds. When I average all of the skills he is he highest across the board. There are better producers lik Pete Rock but he isn't touching Tip on the mic. Then there are better MCs like J Live but he isn't touching Tip on the boards. It's really very simple.

Oddisee has the skill set to be up there but I think dudes like him and Aesop are going to ultimately be victims of their era because the lay of the industy isn't set up for them to have the impact.

And also,
>you scoff at the mention of showmanship? So if someone said
>that Sticky Fingaz verse on Strange Fruit was a remarkable
>display of theatrics/performance, would you laugh at that as
>well? Does all that matter when it comes to gauging ones
>rapping ability is how in-sync with the drum(s) their flows
>are, how relatable (to the average, common man) their raps
>are, and if they use multis?
>

I love that Sticky verse. Second only to his Last Dayz verse. Again, it's simple. It's not about bein 100% on beat or being super lyrical like most people think. It's about everything coming together perfectly. Some guys are super lyrical but can't find the beat to save their lives. You can keep that shit. Then some guys can rap on beat but don't say shit. You can keep that too. I like the best of everything. Sticky owned the beats he was on. RZA doesn't do the same thing. RZA attempts to but his comes off unnatural and uncomfortable to me.

>Help us out here. Give me an example of what you would say is
>a top notch verse or performance from Oddisee. No snark.
>

Oddisee is one of those cats that just puts everything together. Rhymes are in the pocket and well written to the beat. Production doesn't over take the track. Hooks and concepts are always focused. I appreciate that. Let It Go, Way In Way Out, Killin' Time, Own Appeal. Check all of those. Again, he's not super lyrical but he covers topics and is focused, he rides the beat perfectly, and he just has relateable material.

That's what I appreciate. OC is not the best MC in the world but you can't tell me shit about Born To Live, Time's Up, What I Represent, My World, Jewelz or The Formula. The guy just makes quality shit.

That's what everything I preach on here is about...being good at everything. Some people like music for just the beats and some people like the music just for the rhymes. I need a high level of both and to me, Oddisee has done that twice now.

  

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self_ish
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Fri Feb-14-14 09:04 PM

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172. "Appreciate the response. Might not agree but I can appreciate it lol"
In response to Reply # 166


          

I'm totally with you as far as O.C. goes though.

>>And if not, who would you say is better, and why?
>
>Q-Tip is on top right now because he is the best of both
>worlds. When I average all of the skills he is he highest
>across the board. There are better producers lik Pete Rock
>but he isn't touching Tip on the mic. Then there are better
>MCs like J Live but he isn't touching Tip on the boards. It's
>really very simple.
>
>Oddisee has the skill set to be up there but I think dudes
>like him and Aesop are going to ultimately be victims of their
>era because the lay of the industy isn't set up for them to
>have the impact.
>
>And also,
>>you scoff at the mention of showmanship? So if someone said
>>that Sticky Fingaz verse on Strange Fruit was a remarkable
>>display of theatrics/performance, would you laugh at that as
>>well? Does all that matter when it comes to gauging ones
>>rapping ability is how in-sync with the drum(s) their flows
>>are, how relatable (to the average, common man) their raps
>>are, and if they use multis?
>>
>
>I love that Sticky verse. Second only to his Last Dayz verse.
> Again, it's simple. It's not about bein 100% on beat or
>being super lyrical like most people think. It's about
>everything coming together perfectly. Some guys are super
>lyrical but can't find the beat to save their lives. You can
>keep that shit. Then some guys can rap on beat but don't say
>shit. You can keep that too. I like the best of everything.
>Sticky owned the beats he was on. RZA doesn't do the same
>thing. RZA attempts to but his comes off unnatural and
>uncomfortable to me.
>
>>Help us out here. Give me an example of what you would say
>is
>>a top notch verse or performance from Oddisee. No snark.
>>
>
>Oddisee is one of those cats that just puts everything
>together. Rhymes are in the pocket and well written to the
>beat. Production doesn't over take the track. Hooks and
>concepts are always focused. I appreciate that. Let It Go,
>Way In Way Out, Killin' Time, Own Appeal. Check all of those.
> Again, he's not super lyrical but he covers topics and is
>focused, he rides the beat perfectly, and he just has
>relateable material.
>
>That's what I appreciate. OC is not the best MC in the world
>but you can't tell me shit about Born To Live, Time's Up, What
>I Represent, My World, Jewelz or The Formula. The guy just
>makes quality shit.
>
>That's what everything I preach on here is about...being good
>at everything. Some people like music for just the beats and
>some people like the music just for the rhymes. I need a high
>level of both and to me, Oddisee has done that twice now.

  

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Quez
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Sat Feb-15-14 02:31 PM

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175. "everything said here is on point, except the Osddissee shit"
In response to Reply # 166


          


I could get with Q-tip being the best blend of all aspects while i'd still edge out RZA. The paragraph about OC is all G

But you clearly like Odisseye so much cause you wanna be him
In your lame world you kno u could never be a Kanye, a RZA, even a Q-tip but Odissee is reachable.

just admit, you wanna be that nigga, he's your approachable accessible relatable superhero... & stop clownin yourself in this post comparing that lame ass nigga to undisputable legends, real Live niggas

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Sat Feb-15-14 03:05 PM

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176. "pot meet dumb ass kettle "
In response to Reply # 175


  

          


>just admit, you wanna be that nigga, he's your approachable
>accessible relatable superhero... & stop clownin yourself in
>this post comparing that lame ass nigga to undisputable
>legends, real Live niggas

wannabe a legendary live ***** so bad but all u got is suckin their balls

meanwhile real cats relate to real cats & you're mad as fuck

grow up retard

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Anonymous
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Sat Feb-15-14 04:52 PM

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178. "It is not possible to agree with one point and not the other"
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

But you're smart enough to know that right?

  

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Quez
Charter member
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Sat Feb-22-14 03:22 PM

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226. "^^^ Iraqi Information Minister"
In response to Reply # 178


          

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Sat Feb-22-14 09:54 PM

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228. "^^Dick Cheney"
In response to Reply # 226


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Quez
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Sun Feb-23-14 02:40 PM

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231. "^^^ Rob Pilatus"
In response to Reply # 228


          

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Fri Feb-14-14 08:36 PM

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170. "no"
In response to Reply # 164


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Clarence Clarke
Member since Dec 14th 2013
1295 posts
Sun Feb-16-14 06:07 AM

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181. "So because you don't realize your opinion is your opinion..."
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

you really think you're just stating facts on the highly subjective matter of music.
This is why music discussion with you is entirely impossible.
And you always get defensive and condescending or start name-calling when
people don't share your opinion. Smh, dude.

>You said "to me" and "in my opinion" throughout tbe entire
>paragraph so I won't respond. That's cool if that's how you
>feel. I don't argue opinions. But to act like the technical
>aspect isn't real is ignorant.
>

+
+
+
+
+
Everything's turning out perfectly

  

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Anonymous
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Sun Feb-16-14 09:28 AM

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183. "I act accordingly to the poster"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

I had a regular conversation with that dude that already took place before you even replied.

The people I talk shit to are the trolls who are the true people are impossible to have a discussion with.

Read this entire post. I have a "name-calling" back and forth with a few select posters and then I have discussions with others.

So everything you just said holds no weight.

  

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Birdzeye
Member since Feb 29th 2008
433 posts
Sun Feb-16-14 07:14 AM

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182. "RE: In hip-hop, the most technically proficient does NOT equal the best."
In response to Reply # 148


          

Preach!!!!!

Perfectly sums up that RZA magic..

  

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DrunkUncleP
Member since Aug 20th 2013
129 posts
Fri Feb-14-14 12:16 PM

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155. "No love for Pharrell?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

His verse on the new Future joint was kinda crazy.

------------------------------------------

"And just because I smile they be thinking I be jokin..."


http://twitter.com/DrunkUncleP

  

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javi222
Member since Jun 14th 2003
4375 posts
Fri Feb-14-14 07:03 PM

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167. "RZA is one of the most diverse MCs in hip hop"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I am a big fan of both Oddisee and El-P... right now they better , but overall I pick RZA

  

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Anonymous
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Fri Feb-14-14 07:15 PM

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168. "Respect"
In response to Reply # 167


  

          

I don't agree with 'one of the most diverse' but I'll agree to disagree. I'd say Oddisee is just as muh diverse. Boom bap, double time flow, hard beats, r&b/soul joints, funk...i feel he covers a wider range.

I think people are putting too much on his 'theatrics' but I get why certain people like him.

I think he may be a love or hate type of MC.

Not to say I hate him but I just don't like his style at all.

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Fri Feb-14-14 09:53 PM

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173. "a motherfucker said this 120 posts ago"
In response to Reply # 168


  

          

>I think he may be a love or hate type of MC.

post #48. coulda saved a whole lot of arguing champ.


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Anonymous
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Fri Feb-14-14 10:06 PM

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174. "RE: a motherfucker said this 120 posts ago"
In response to Reply # 173


  

          

I didn't read that post because I wasn't in that convo.

I have always felt like that about RZA. In my experience, more people aren't feeling him than love him though.

Appreciate the convo as always though.

note to self: avoid back and forths with trolls...check

so we in agreement that Q-Tip is the best producer/MC?

  

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WARGOD357
Member since Jan 21st 2006
1403 posts
Sat Feb-15-14 11:05 PM

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179. "LET'S KEEP IT 100"
In response to Reply # 174


  

          

WHAT MEMORABLE VERSE OR BEATS DOES ODDISEE HAVE TO SAY HE'S BETTER THAN RZA?

You slap the nigga(DRAKE) five n he gon moisturize ya palms nahmean!-BIG GHOST NAHMEAN!

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Sun Feb-16-14 10:58 AM

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185. "im past all this shit yall talkin about but..."
In response to Reply # 179


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NTq0k38Erc&sns=em

^here's an example of why some ppl know Oddisee is a supreme artist

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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NoDrawls McGraw
Member since Jun 24th 2007
12122 posts
Sun Feb-16-14 03:18 AM

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180. "Whole lot of unexpected entertainment in this post."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Ninjaz in here throwin' DARTS.

I've already spit out my Aquafina a couple times in this bitch.


Keep it comin' ya'll.

^




https://chriswind.bandcamp.com/track/massage

"You can take an African out of Africa, but you can't take Africa out of the African"
Afro-Americana/Afro-Caribbana/Afro-Latino unite. We are ALL Black!

  

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self_ish
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Sun Feb-16-14 10:19 AM

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184. "One last thing lol, this RZA doesn't rap to the beat thing is a fallacy...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Yes he has an unorthodox array of flows where he'll speed up, slow it back down and sometimes sound as if he's hovering over the beat. But he's still rhyming to it. It surprises me that many who are fans of cats like Aesop Rock and El-P can make concessions for their loose, stream of conscious, off beat flows that they won't offer to RZA. Ultimately I think it comes down to folks not liking RZA's Sesame Street's The Count-esque voice, and tuning him out as a result. But you can't tell me that he's off beat on songs like:

The Grain - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj8Rs1Twc1s

School - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvV5bQgiUS4

Assassination Day - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iehBqhtLGAs

Be A Man - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO7V6WQKeGU

Sunshower - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4okfrkpIYLs

Windpipe - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v40KJS5WERw


And another key thing that makes RZA an intriguing rapper is his references and similes. All those random kung-fu, cartoon, anime, wrestling, science, spiritual, historical mentions that are delivered in a style rooted in the battle rap, one-upmanship culture of hip-hop his persona was birthed out of. A song like Lab Drunk is prototypical RZA, with lines like "We slay microphone foes, the size of Robeasts!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0NDDjQ1Yxc

Someone like Oddisee whose music is so centered around his personal journey and rapping about being nice without really showing and proving via blacking out, isn't spitting lines like that. And that's ok, 'cause it's not his lane. But that plays a factor in why many seem to prefer RZA's brand of hip-hop over his.

  

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Quez
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186. "^^^ tells the truth & nothin but the truth"
In response to Reply # 184


          

  

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Anonymous
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Sun Feb-16-14 02:56 PM

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187. "You really trying to prove a point huh "
In response to Reply # 184
Sun Feb-16-14 02:58 PM by Anonymous

  

          

>Yes he has an unorthodox array of flows where he'll speed up,
>slow it back down and sometimes sound as if he's hovering over
>the beat. But he's still rhyming to it. It surprises me that
>many who are fans of cats like Aesop Rock and El-P can make
>concessions for their loose, stream of conscious, off beat
>flows that they won't offer to RZA. Ultimately I think it
>comes down to folks not liking RZA's Sesame Street's The
>Count-esque voice, and tuning him out as a result. But you
>can't tell me that he's off beat on songs like:
>
>The Grain - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj8Rs1Twc1s
>
>School - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvV5bQgiUS4
>
>Assassination Day -
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iehBqhtLGAs
>
>Be A Man - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO7V6WQKeGU
>
>Sunshower - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4okfrkpIYLs
>
>Windpipe - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v40KJS5WERw
>
>

I've already covered this above. RZA is not comfortable when he rhymes. It's sounds like he is reading off the page. As someone who rhymes, I can sense that shit a mile away. And yes, El-P and Aesop have had those instances but have both gotten a lot better and Aesop specifically has really been in the pocket these last two albums. RZA has not improved at all lol. And yes some of it does come down to his voice. Dude always sounds like he has spit forming at the side of his lips and that shit ain't good. This has started to become more of a problem for Fame as well. It throws the sharpness of the flow off.

>And another key thing that makes RZA an intriguing rapper is
>his references and similes. All those random kung-fu, cartoon,
>anime, wrestling, science, spiritual, historical mentions that
>are delivered in a style rooted in the battle rap,
>one-upmanship culture of hip-hop his persona was birthed out
>of. A song like Lab Drunk is prototypical RZA, with lines like
>"We slay microphone foes, the size of Robeasts!"
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0NDDjQ1Yxc
>

Ok. I'll give you that...he's interesting but that's icing for a cake that isn't there in my opinion.

>Someone like Oddisee whose music is so centered around his
>personal journey and rapping about being nice without really
>showing and proving via blacking out, isn't spitting lines
>like that. And that's ok, 'cause it's not his lane. But that
>plays a factor in why many seem to prefer RZA's brand of
>hip-hop over his.

You're honestly saying that Oddisee only raps about his journey and "being nice"? That viewpoint can only come from someone who hasn't really listened.

  

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self_ish
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Sun Feb-16-14 03:59 PM

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188. "Just trying to offer the perspective of someone who agrees with the OP "
In response to Reply # 187


          

And I felt there were a couple of points I could have elaborated on, thus the additional post(s). And I didn't say that Oddisee "only" rapped about those things. But that those subjects are very central to his music, and that the brand of obscure reference heavy battle/bragging rap that RZA did and many enjoy isn't really found much in Oddisee's music, or much of a focus for him. And I think that's a fair assessment.

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Sun Feb-16-14 04:16 PM

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189. "you should peep some early oddisee or at least 101/102"
In response to Reply # 188


  

          

all the raw beats & aggressive battle raps you're talking about are there, among other stuff

he's quite versatile & that's w/o resorting to making unlistenable movie soundtracks bc some white movie producer who was a wu tang fan thinks its a good idea

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Anonymous
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Sun Feb-16-14 04:28 PM

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190. "I guess"
In response to Reply # 188


  

          

>And I felt there were a couple of points I could have
>elaborated on, thus the additional post(s). And I didn't say
>that Oddisee "only" rapped about those things. But that those
>subjects are very central to his music, and that the brand of
>obscure reference heavy battle/bragging rap that RZA did and
>many enjoy isn't really found much in Oddisee's music, or much
>of a focus for him. And I think that's a fair assessment.

What's the difference between rapping about "how nice I am" and bragging raps?

Just because RZA's style is more obscure you're giving him the nod?

I agree it's about preference at that point but I am not understanding the flaw people in this post are claiming Oddisee has.

If you're a Phonte fan or a Tribe fan etc it doesn't make sense to me to not like Oddisee because he creates music with the same sense of values as some of our favorites.

  

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self_ish
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Sun Feb-16-14 05:03 PM

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191. "The content/point of references of ones similes is extremely important"
In response to Reply # 190
Sun Feb-16-14 05:12 PM by self_ish

          

It's one of the biggest factors when differentiating one rapper from another. All rappers boast about how dope they are. It's a very ego driven genre. And having the slickest, tongue twisting flow is definitely noteworthy. But if under scrutiny one finds that the meat of those flows are simple run of the mill references, you aren't going to be held in the same regard as someone who's saying something you've possibly never heard before, or draws on something not as current or mainstream. It's what made/makes DOOM so special. Rakim. It's why Canibus was so revered at one point.

And I'm not in here saying Oddisee is wack, 'cause that absolutely isn't the case. But taking your comparison into account, the biggest thing that Tip and Phonte have over Oddisee is charisma. With the former, when you listen to them rap their distinct personalities shine through. Tip's quirkiness and Phonte's humor are a huge part of what makes them compelling. They're entertainers. What is Oddisee's selling point? His laid back vibe and common man presence?

>>And I felt there were a couple of points I could have
>>elaborated on, thus the additional post(s). And I didn't say
>>that Oddisee "only" rapped about those things. But that
>those
>>subjects are very central to his music, and that the brand
>of
>>obscure reference heavy battle/bragging rap that RZA did and
>>many enjoy isn't really found much in Oddisee's music, or
>much
>>of a focus for him. And I think that's a fair assessment.
>
>What's the difference between rapping about "how nice I am"
>and bragging raps?
>
>Just because RZA's style is more obscure you're giving him the
>nod?
>
>I agree it's about preference at that point but I am not
>understanding the flaw people in this post are claiming
>Oddisee has.
>
>If you're a Phonte fan or a Tribe fan etc it doesn't make
>sense to me to not like Oddisee because he creates music with
>the same sense of values as some of our favorites.
>

  

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Anonymous
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Sun Feb-16-14 06:27 PM

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192. "?"
In response to Reply # 191


  

          

>It's one of the biggest factors when differentiating one
>rapper from another. All rappers boast about how dope they
>are. It's a very ego driven genre. And having the slickest,
>tongue twisting flow is definitely noteworthy. But if under
>scrutiny one finds that the meat of those flows are simple run
>of the mill references, you aren't going to be held in the
>same regard as someone who's saying something you've possibly
>never heard before, or draws on something not as current or
>mainstream. It's what made/makes DOOM so special. Rakim. It's
>why Canibus was so revered at one point.
>

I already said this above. I am the one who said it's not just about your flow if you're not saying shit. So I'm not sure why your repeating that. However, some of what you're talking about it exactly what I don't like about rap. I grew out of MCs like Canibus. I don't know about you, but I'm too old to hear that bullshit. When you breakdown what he's actually saying, it's worthless. So those type of similes I actually dislike. Metaphors are cool when they're focused and have more too them than just being another way of saying how nice you are. To be honest, and I grew up on the Wu...those dudes are the kings of not saying shit. Sure you can write some off the wall shit and make up a meaning later...that's also some shit I see coming from a mile away.


>And I'm not in here saying Oddisee is wack, 'cause that
>absolutely isn't the case. But taking your comparison into
>account, the biggest thing that Tip and Phonte have over
>Oddisee is charisma. With the former, when you listen to them
>rap their distinct personalities shine through. Tip's
>quirkiness and Phonte's humor are a huge part of what makes
>them compelling. They're entertainers. What is Oddisee's
>selling point? His laid back vibe and common man presence?
>

Lol at acting like Oddisee has no personality. That some disrespectful shit to say about a human being lol. Of course he has personality. People above are actually saying that the reason people like RZA is because he comes off like a super hero whereas Oddisee comes off like a relateable person. Again, I'm too grown to idolize superhero MCs. That's some childish shit to me. Not sure why you need a selling point to feel validated for liking an MC. What's OC's selling point? He's a dope MC who gives you a real perspective. That's what Oddisee is.

Like Phote said...dope beats dope rhymes what more do y'all want?

I just get sick of people wanting some other shit. It's either some comic book shit like RZA does or some fake CB4 shit like Rick Ross. Just give me a regular dope MC who is nice at the art.

>>>And I felt there were a couple of points I could have
>>>elaborated on, thus the additional post(s). And I didn't
>say
>>>that Oddisee "only" rapped about those things. But that
>>those
>>>subjects are very central to his music, and that the brand
>>of
>>>obscure reference heavy battle/bragging rap that RZA did
>and
>>>many enjoy isn't really found much in Oddisee's music, or
>>much
>>>of a focus for him. And I think that's a fair assessment.
>>
>>What's the difference between rapping about "how nice I am"
>>and bragging raps?
>>
>>Just because RZA's style is more obscure you're giving him
>the
>>nod?
>>
>>I agree it's about preference at that point but I am not
>>understanding the flaw people in this post are claiming
>>Oddisee has.
>>
>>If you're a Phonte fan or a Tribe fan etc it doesn't make
>>sense to me to not like Oddisee because he creates music
>with
>>the same sense of values as some of our favorites.
>>
>

  

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Quez
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193. "RZA will enter the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame for his producing/rapping"
In response to Reply # 192


          


Oddisessey not even close

  

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
18115 posts
Sun Feb-16-14 06:57 PM

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194. "RE: RZA will enter the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame for Wu impact"
In response to Reply # 193


  

          

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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Anonymous
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Sun Feb-16-14 07:26 PM

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195. "Exactly"
In response to Reply # 194


  

          

And no one is arguing that RZA and Wu shouldn't be in the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame.

But like I said earlier...RZA's biggest contribution to the game is masterminding the Wu.

Production-wise he was never as good as Primo or Pete but he's in that class because he knew how to compose whole albums around the MCs he had.

He branded the movement beautifully.

Sad shit is that these fools need an artist to be at a certain level before they like them.

That's the shit I fucking hate about hip-hop "fans".

MCs have to reach a certain benchmark of success before they're praised.

Some of the nicest cats get no love.

Which is why I said the lay of the industry work against a cat like Oddisee.

Back in the day, the underground shit like Nas, Wu, Black Moon etc were the mainstream as far as hip-hop goes because it wasn't commercialized yet.

  

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
18115 posts
Sun Feb-16-14 07:35 PM

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196. "Rizz is a visionary, and a masterful executor"
In response to Reply # 195


  

          

much like Prince Paul was before him
both are known for not being wizards behind the boards but incredible at bringing forth meaning and execution of a project

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Sun Feb-16-14 08:55 PM

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201. "RE: Exactly"
In response to Reply # 195


  

          

i want these cats to show me RZAs two exceptional instrumental albums and his solo better than PHWTS

AND STILL RZA makes my top 5 while O sits in the "modern" group just behind

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Fri Feb-21-14 01:35 PM

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221. "if you think OB4CL and Forever aren't pinnacle production albums"
In response to Reply # 201


  

          

yes, from a producers standpoint alone, than you are a lost cause.

how and WHAT he chopped and the sound of the drums on OB4CL have few equals

the dynamics and incorporation of electronic gear and live instruments, and the sound/mix of Forever is remarkable

the mid to late 90s underground from LA to New York sounded the way it did because of RZA's production on 36, Tical, Return to the 36 and Liquid. Yall can keep playing dumb though

Oddisee has NOTHING in that field. Not even close. He has nothing that touches those albums. I will listen to Bobby Digital any day over anything Oddisee has ever released outside of the Diamond District albumn.

Oddisee is a damn good rapper and producer who makes good music. If yall think he's in RZA's league, cool. Most of us don't

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Fri Feb-21-14 05:54 PM

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223. "RZA doesn't have any INSTRUMENTAL ALBUMS"
In response to Reply # 221


  

          

period

you can ignore the fact i still rank RZA *above* Oddisee if you want

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Sun Feb-16-14 08:53 PM

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200. "lolol, this dude said "Rock n Roll Hall of Fame""
In response to Reply # 193


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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self_ish
Charter member
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Sun Feb-16-14 07:55 PM

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197. "Don't think I've EVER seen "regular" used as a complimentary descriptor...."
In response to Reply # 192


          

When discussing rappers. No offense, but it sounds like you want rap to be something it never was, and likely never will be. I mean, I can't think of a single universally revered rapper from any era that could be described as regular. The goal was to be everything but that. Rappers create personas that play a part in selling themselves. Mythology building. Large Professor's glasses played a role in his presentation. It is what it is. But that doesn't mean rappers always (have to) focus on the character aspect more so than the music.

Guys like O.C. and Common spoke introspectively and humanized themselves, but they both had distinct voices and perspectives; and also had an edge and a battle hungry, word play driven approach to rapping. And while part of what made RZA unique is that he created a mystique, and gave you those "comic book" raps, he also made common man songs and offered food for thought as well. Your sentiment regarding "metaphors" was also eye-opening. Interesting. I do see where you're coming from. But yeah, it's glaringly clear that our perspectives are just different on this subject lol. So we can agree to disagree respectfully. Again, I appreciate the dialogue.


>>It's one of the biggest factors when differentiating one
>>rapper from another. All rappers boast about how dope they
>>are. It's a very ego driven genre. And having the slickest,
>>tongue twisting flow is definitely noteworthy. But if under
>>scrutiny one finds that the meat of those flows are simple
>run
>>of the mill references, you aren't going to be held in the
>>same regard as someone who's saying something you've
>possibly
>>never heard before, or draws on something not as current or
>>mainstream. It's what made/makes DOOM so special. Rakim.
>It's
>>why Canibus was so revered at one point.
>>
>
>I already said this above. I am the one who said it's not
>just about your flow if you're not saying shit. So I'm not
>sure why your repeating that. However, some of what you're
>talking about it exactly what I don't like about rap. I grew
>out of MCs like Canibus. I don't know about you, but I'm too
>old to hear that bullshit. When you breakdown what he's
>actually saying, it's worthless. So those type of similes I
>actually dislike. Metaphors are cool when they're focused and
>have more too them than just being another way of saying how
>nice you are. To be honest, and I grew up on the Wu...those
>dudes are the kings of not saying shit. Sure you can write
>some off the wall shit and make up a meaning later...that's
>also some shit I see coming from a mile away.
>
>
>>And I'm not in here saying Oddisee is wack, 'cause that
>>absolutely isn't the case. But taking your comparison into
>>account, the biggest thing that Tip and Phonte have over
>>Oddisee is charisma. With the former, when you listen to
>them
>>rap their distinct personalities shine through. Tip's
>>quirkiness and Phonte's humor are a huge part of what makes
>>them compelling. They're entertainers. What is Oddisee's
>>selling point? His laid back vibe and common man presence?
>>
>
>Lol at acting like Oddisee has no personality. That some
>disrespectful shit to say about a human being lol. Of course
>he has personality. People above are actually saying that the
>reason people like RZA is because he comes off like a super
>hero whereas Oddisee comes off like a relateable person.
>Again, I'm too grown to idolize superhero MCs. That's some
>childish shit to me. Not sure why you need a selling point to
>feel validated for liking an MC. What's OC's selling point?
>He's a dope MC who gives you a real perspective. That's what
>Oddisee is.
>
>Like Phote said...dope beats dope rhymes what more do y'all
>want?
>
>I just get sick of people wanting some other shit. It's
>either some comic book shit like RZA does or some fake CB4
>shit like Rick Ross. Just give me a regular dope MC who is
>nice at the art.
>
>>>>And I felt there were a couple of points I could have
>>>>elaborated on, thus the additional post(s). And I didn't
>>say
>>>>that Oddisee "only" rapped about those things. But that
>>>those
>>>>subjects are very central to his music, and that the brand
>>>of
>>>>obscure reference heavy battle/bragging rap that RZA did
>>and
>>>>many enjoy isn't really found much in Oddisee's music, or
>>>much
>>>>of a focus for him. And I think that's a fair assessment.
>>>
>>>What's the difference between rapping about "how nice I am"
>>>and bragging raps?
>>>
>>>Just because RZA's style is more obscure you're giving him
>>the
>>>nod?
>>>
>>>I agree it's about preference at that point but I am not
>>>understanding the flaw people in this post are claiming
>>>Oddisee has.
>>>
>>>If you're a Phonte fan or a Tribe fan etc it doesn't make
>>>sense to me to not like Oddisee because he creates music
>>with
>>>the same sense of values as some of our favorites.
>>>
>>
>

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Sun Feb-16-14 08:49 PM

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198. "that's a problem"
In response to Reply # 197


  

          

if a culture doesn't allow for holding ppl in esteem for being who they are then id guess said culture suffers & needs to do some growing

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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self_ish
Charter member
2117 posts
Sun Feb-16-14 09:45 PM

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204. "LOL @ "a culture". We're discussing rappers and producers. Music."
In response to Reply # 198


          

That's only a facet of "the culture". You can be regular and be a part of hip-hop. And you can be who you are and rap and receive esteem as well. But who you are and how you present it need to be entertaining enough that people will want to pay to hear your stories though. The majority might not care to, but you can still have a sizable audience like Oddisee does, by tapping into the demographic that can relate and/or enjoys listening to the chronicles of a "regular" guy/gal. Or you can be that guy that raps with your crew/circle at the crib, school, whatever, and receives praise from them. *shrug*


>if a culture doesn't allow for holding ppl in esteem for
>being who they are then id guess said culture suffers & needs
>to do some growing

  

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Anonymous
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Sun Feb-16-14 09:15 PM

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202. "I used regular for a reason"
In response to Reply # 197


  

          

When you say we see differently on the metaphors topic are you speaking on the metaphors or the similes?

The rest of what you wrote is just reaching as far as I'm concerned. And this is coming from someone who holds both Com and OC comfortably in my top 10.

Just not sure why you're trying to reduce Oddisee down to being a one-dimensional MC.

It's almost like you're making shit up to slight him in any way you can.

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Sun Feb-16-14 10:00 PM

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205. "RE: I used regular for a reason"
In response to Reply # 202


  

          


>Just not sure why you're trying to reduce Oddisee down to
>being a one-dimensional MC.
>

AND the whole well executed concept of PHWTS was rapping from various perspectives, and TD has a varied palette of joints

im not seeing the "one dimensional" argument either, quite the opposite

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Sun Feb-16-14 08:50 PM

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199. "Das Efx got all the references son"
In response to Reply # 191


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Clarence Clarke
Member since Dec 14th 2013
1295 posts
Tue Feb-18-14 02:31 AM

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209. "Not to mention "Wu Tang Clan Ain't Nuthin To Fuck Wit""
In response to Reply # 184


  

          

He's definitely on the beat there... in the traditional sense, even

+
+
+
+
+
Everything's turning out perfectly

  

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cbk
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4535 posts
Tue Feb-18-14 05:37 PM

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212. "i agree with all this"
In response to Reply # 184


          

Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

  

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Kid Ray
Member since Sep 23rd 2010
1702 posts
Sun Feb-16-14 09:35 PM

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203. "Charles Hamilton>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Oddisee"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

as far as rapping goes

  

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thesickboi
Member since Nov 06th 2006
789 posts
Mon Feb-17-14 01:45 PM

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206. "1.DOOM.2.Ye.3.ElP.4.QTip.5.Rza."
In response to Reply # 0


          

nm

  

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MISTA MONOTONE
Member since Jan 30th 2004
58563 posts
Mon Feb-17-14 01:56 PM

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207. "i'd rather hear Pete, Large Pro, Black Milk or Dilla."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Feb-17-14 01:56 PM by MISTA MONOTONE

  

          

.

------------------------------------------
latest mixtape:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mistamonotone/music-to-smack-motherfckers-to/

mistamonotone - taboo
http://mistamonotone.bandcamp.com/album/taboo

@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

  

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poetx
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58856 posts
Tue Feb-18-14 01:16 AM

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208. "i was gonna say Extra P. black milk is nice. dilla was dilla. "
In response to Reply # 207


  

          

RE: i'd rather hear Pete, Large Pro, Black Milk or Dilla.

i really don't fuck w/ pete rock on the mic, tho.

you put a defensive lineman in to block on the goalline, that don't make him a running back. pete is a dope, LEGENDARY producer who also rapped on some joints. he refrigerator perry as an emcee, tho.

DOOM definitely need to be on the list. he got some dope beats. of course, he don't play by the rules and be jacking mad uncleared samples. but word to special herbs, he got some shit wit him behind the boards.

large pro is slept on as both an emcee and a producer.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
** i move away from the mic to breathe in

  

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Quez
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19684 posts
Tue Feb-18-14 10:40 AM

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210. "Pete Rock is a very uninteresting MC. But the beats!!"
In response to Reply # 208


          

  

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NoDrawls McGraw
Member since Jun 24th 2007
12122 posts
Tue Feb-18-14 02:52 PM

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211. "Off the realest thing in life,....."
In response to Reply # 208


  

          

I laughed hard as shit at this >>he refrigerator perry as an emcee, tho. <<






https://chriswind.bandcamp.com/track/massage

"You can take an African out of Africa, but you can't take Africa out of the African"
Afro-Americana/Afro-Caribbana/Afro-Latino unite. We are ALL Black!

  

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Sylana
Member since Dec 29th 2013
430 posts
Thu Feb-20-14 01:44 PM

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215. "i got my emcee name ezzsential from the rza"
In response to Reply # 0


          

my emcee name is no longer ezzsential its sylana but i got it from the rza saying "fortified with the essential vitamins n minerals the sky is my blanket stuffin clouds into my pillow" verse

when all the girls liked meth rza was my fav!

CHECK OUT N DOWNLOAD MY FREE BEATS @ WWW.SOUNDCLICK.COM/SYLANA
i dont rep no black white or gray
they made two copies of me, one that licks and sucks and the other that has someone on top of me, i never acted white they made me look like i did so they cou

  

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Quez
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19684 posts
Thu Feb-20-14 03:28 PM

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216. "^^^ evidence"
In response to Reply # 215


          

  

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ProgressiveSound
Member since Mar 11th 2003
2053 posts
Sat Feb-22-14 06:13 AM

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225. "Not better than Lord Finesse or Large Professor"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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flyboy feezy
Member since Feb 17th 2014
26 posts
Sat Feb-22-14 06:50 PM

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227. "kayne is the best ever to me"
In response to Reply # 0


          

lol @ the nerds in here hyping up some nerd rapper

  

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RexLongfellow
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18296 posts
Sat Feb-22-14 11:53 PM

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229. "I ENJOY E-Double More, But I Can't Argue Against RZA"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

By the way, this post is high comedy

  

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