watched Unsung and it dawned on me seeing Questlove up there, Full Force with there hybrid thang for R&B,Pop was a precursor to what Quest wants the Roots to do with Neo Soul and the other acts they have worked with and the commerical side of the wheel,

difference though is that full Force kept hits. the Roots hang out or play behind big acts.

but there are some interesting coincidences at work.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

they play the back lot. they have some things in common. don't act the Roots working with Joss stone ain't like Full Force working with Britney Spears??

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

That said, this is an interesting comparison.

there's a slight resemblance.

But yeah... to a degree you are right. I mean, I thought that a few months ago when ?uest first mentioned that he'd be invited to participate in the Full Force episode. I thought that the reason they selected him for this was because he had some insight into running a hip-hop band and Full Force were essentially the progenitors of the Roots.

In fact, I was hoping there would be a little more of an indepth look into that aspect, about the chasm between hip-hop and R&B and the way Full Force bridged that. Of course, I know UnSung is not the kind of show to get too deep into that kind of thing, and they only have like 44 minutes to tell the story of a three-decade career... But I would expect that ?uest must have talked about that, even if it ended up on the cutting room floor.

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okay, so full force billed themselves as the original hip-hop band.

<shrug>

>okay, so full force billed themselves as the original hip-hop
>band.

Full Force, like I said yesterday... is just so over-the-top and hilarious. that image did not match the music. The Roots' image, more or less does.

It was almost like the TV programme The White Shadow (source of my current avatar and others), where the dudes on the basketball team had this hobby of singing doo-wop

didn't stop full force from claiming it, though.

full force built these OTT characters, they were almost a live-action cartoon.

critics of the roots claimed that they didn't have ANY personality, which was harsh - but how are you gonna compare black thought to bow legged lou?

sorry knee jerk instinct every time I see Bow Legged Lou.

and they were also more of a self-contained band than Stet

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they made r&b/pop with a strong hip-hop influence.

but they produced seminal hip-hop records for others.

*MY* Roots comparison encapsulates production/facilitation of other artists... not sure maxxx's does too.

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haven't a bunch of other groups/crews done likewise?

How many self-contained bands have done hip-hop and R&B with equal fluency?

(Fugees do not count)

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the tonies.
dungeon family.
bomb squad.

hmm..

perhaps i shall have to reconsider my stance!

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and I wouldn't call TTT successful hip hop producers
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depending upon which label you want to use.

Does not in NO way belong to Sing Songy Full Force.

Honestly Full Force claiming to be hiphop is ridiculous.

You cannot say original, hiphop, band, in one sentence without saying

Sugar Hill
or
Fatback band.

So whoever wrote that for Unsung needs to do their homework.

If that's the case then James Brown's Jb's were the original hiphop band.

Jordan!

What the blood claaat ???

The Roots started off as..and still are a Hip hop/Rap Band...

Full Force wasn't a Hip Hop/Rap band from the jump... I might call them a hip hop band...but they were singing and not rapping..and they started off as a production team from the jump...whereas Quest seemed to evolve into a producer of other artists over time..


not the same at all.

>and they started off as a production team from the
>jump...whereas Quest seemed to evolve into a producer of other
>artists over time..

That's not quite true... Full Force already had a record out before they produced anybody else.

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and then later on start producing for people..

they were artists releasing their own material and producing for other artists right from the jump. They produced Roxane for UTFO and brought out Lisa Lisa early in their careers......not after establishing themselves as a group for multiple album releases .

that's one of the many differences with them and the roots.

>they were artists releasing their own material and producing
>for other artists right from the jump. They produced Roxane
>for UTFO and brought out Lisa Lisa early in their
>careers......not after establishing themselves as a group for
>multiple album releases .

Man... the way you be retroactively modifying statements with weird caveats...

1) They had been performing locally as a group for YEARS before they produced another artist

2) Also YEARS before they produced anybody, they released a record under their own name. This one: http://youtu.be/hRjSpF8-R_c

Is it "multiple album releases"? No... But it's quite enough to demonstrate that they were already their own self-contained (and established) band before they ever produced other artists and not a production team that later became a band.

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>>they were artists releasing their own material and
>producing
>>for other artists right from the jump. They produced Roxane
>>for UTFO and brought out Lisa Lisa early in their
>>careers......not after establishing themselves as a group
>for
>>multiple album releases .
>
>Man... the way you be retroactively modifying statements with
>weird caveats...
>
>1) They had been performing locally as a group for YEARS
>before they produced another artist
>
>2) Also YEARS before they produced anybody, they released a
>record under their own name. This one:
>http://youtu.be/hRjSpF8-R_c
>
>Is it "multiple album releases"? No... But it's quite enough
>to demonstrate that they were already their own self-contained
>(and established) band before they ever produced other artists
>and not a production team that later became a band.


The Roots had released multiple albums before Quest started producing R&B artists...

Full Force's first album came out AFTER Lisa Lisa and them dropped...and after Roxane Roxane came out...

The Roots didn't come out early in their careers putting out other groups and producing R&B...

Full Force did so very early in their careers..

that was the point...

try as you want to prove otherwise, Warren Coolidge bathes in accuracy..lolol.

Damn with the literalism.

And your continued emphasis on "albums" while willfully ignoring that Full Force had released a record under their own name.... smh

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>Damn with the literalism.
>
>And your continued emphasis on "albums" while willfully
>ignoring that Full Force had released a record under their own
>name.... smh

Jay Z isn't Johnny Mathis player..

Who in the Roots was singing? Doing duets?? Who in the roots early in their career was writing and producing R&B hits??

completely different.

Look at my post prior to this to see who's the real first hiphop band.

That term hiphop seems to mean - black and grew up after Reagonomics,

I'm talking about the general positioning of the group in the music industry, not saying that they followed the exact same career path verbatim. I mean, I ain't seen Tariq in no jheri curl or ?uest in a shredded T-shirt.

But hey... the goalpost is already moved. So do you.

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>I'm talking about the general positioning of the group in the
>music industry, not saying that they followed the exact same
>career path verbatim. I mean, I ain't seen Tariq in no jheri
>curl or ?uest in a shredded T-shirt.
>
>But hey... the goalpost is already moved. So do you.

as demonstrating how they are not even close to being the same group....

this is a dumb post anyway...

Maxx is butthurt because people are checking for D'Angelo's tour and not that dude that was gettin 13 & 14 year old girls pregnant...so since he's salty about that he's taking a jab at quest by dissing the roots....

and you're being the side busting co-signer you tend to be...

Full Force released their first record in 1980.

By 1984--four years later--they were producing Kurtis Blow. (To the best of my knowledge, they don't have any production credits for any artist before 1984)


The Roots released their first record in 1993.

By 1996--THREE years later--they were producing Erykah Badu.

So, yeah.

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Why?

Full Force is not a hiphop band. They sing.

They do not rap.

The Roots are not singers.

They are not stripping, wearing see thru shirts, and doing pushups while pouring babyoil over themselves.

My point?

Even if Full Force rapped which they never have...

the original hiphop band title - Fatbackband/Sugar Hill anyone?

This is not even up for discussion really.

Just cause Full Force had range doesn't equate them in any way to being a 'hiphop' band.

If you think of the production Kurtis Blow had we probably wouldn't mention it.

Fatback was an R&B band that made a couple of records featuring rappers.

And Sugarhill Gang was not a band at all... They were a group of 3 MCs.

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I chose to call them R&B because their sound varied throughout their career... There were periods when they were playing heavy funk... other times when they weren't. But they always remained an R&B dance band.

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accurate to put Fatback in the Funk category....They were more funk than R&B...

and especially since we're talking about the origins of rap or hip hop being seen in an established R&B/Funk format.... I think the line TO hip hop is more direct from FUNK....

Hip hop was the latest incarnation of Funk ..it evolved from Funk.

>Hip hop was the latest incarnation of Funk ..it evolved from
>Funk.

I'm not gonna bother to go there again.

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that hip hop evolved out of Funk....

No Funk....no hip hop..

point blank...

them remaking Perfect Combination back in the 90's....lol

Or hearing of the questlove strip tease during their shows..



there are comparisons to be made...sure....one in particular to me would be Quests work with Al Green and Betty Wright and Full Force work with the Godfather..

but to say they were basiclly the same band..and to diss the roots for not producing hits is just riddiculous...

.

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>but to say they were basiclly the same band..and to diss the
>roots for not producing hits is just riddiculous...

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i respect anyone's right to not like The Roots.

but dog your "hang out" line is dismissive and revisionist.

and i get you are actually being "nice" in this post.

but "hang out" was the ONLY thing you could think of for my 20 year career?

like we just here by default hang out?

its like i could hear you struggling to think of something not insulting to say....


"hang out"

again im out of this post.


so the fact that i've placed 6 albums in the pop top 10 means nothing?

the fact that our live show price can pretty much match any mainstream act means nothing?

we can sell out Radio City, Universal Ampitheater, Red Rocks, The Zenith (all 8000+ capacity spots at top dollar price)

im just saying yo.

hang out?

come on now.

NO! LIST
Tom Petty
M J
Zeppelin
Springsteen
Neil Young
Eagles
Ray Charles
Madonna
Chuck Berry
South Park TV Songs
Justin Timberlake
"Food Glorious Food"
"Twilight Zone" theme
"A Boy Named Sue"
"Night Moves"
"The Situation"
"Superbowl Shuffle"

Supporting those child molestors to no end.

What you just pointed out can be said for

Dave Matthews
Phish
Prince
The Grateful Dead

hell even Radiohead.

I'll take them niggaz over Usher, Timberlake, or any of those professional Mj impersonators anyday.

Full Force were some talented Tuesday night strippers.

Rkelly is a gospel cookout performance gone viral. The lipgloss, the vests with no shirt, the Bobby B headphones, the unnecessary yelling - the horrible lyrics about midgets and jeeps.

Whew. How? *stares at sky*

he's a silly little know-nothing twat, is all.

That said, do you think it's correct to say y'all are in the same vein as Full Force, or that you were a different animal that took a different path, that of the rap group that decides to collaborate with R&B acts from time to time?

-------
http://adevotedappraisal.tumblr.com - Essays, reviews, short stories and free writes on music, film and life around us.

Full Force = R&B band that went on to produce hip-hop artists, causing the two genres to meld in a new and unique way.

Roots = hip-hop band that went on to produce R&B artists, causing the two genres to meld in a new and unique way.

Both electrifying live acts.

Both went on to work with artists in the pop/rock sphere, known as the guys who can give you that "urban/street" edge while still fluently speaking the language of the larger music world.

And despite all that... just barely getting their due respect.

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very much so..

but to say they were basiclly the same band...when even you call one an R&B band and the other a hip hop band was off base...

I'd make the distinction between the Roots working with R&B acts that were already out and Full Force basiclly creating Lisa Lisa and Cult Jam (although obviously quest and them went on to work with established acts but Full Force was kind of going the Prince route of creating protege group(s))

but no very valid comparisons to be made ...but they were different bands and the fact that it was a different time also can't go ignored...Hip hop's impact on mainstream music when Full force came out was vastly different then hip hop's impact on the mainstream when the Roots involved in the so-called neo-soul movement...

to me Full Force was extending hip hop into R&B which was still dominant at the time...while the Roots were extending R&B into Hip hop when hip hop was dominant.... that's why neo-sould was looked at as a GOING BACK to soul so to speak. A rebirth of a soul style into a mainstream that was dominated by hip hop...

very valid comparisons to be made, but to just call them basiclly the same band is inaccurate and short sighted imo

especially making lisa lisa what they are.

-------
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>but to say they were basiclly the same band...when even you
>call one an R&B band and the other a hip hop band was off
>base...
>
>very valid comparisons to be made, but to just call them
>basiclly the same band is inaccurate and short sighted imo

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lou asked me personally cause those cats really ARE my heros and templet

my question was just based on maxx (a cat who knows his music) and his somewhat willful ignorance about The Roots.

im saying i am not the worlds leading expert of Springsteen but as someone who takes pride in the fact that most people acknowledge and respect me as somewhat of a music expert, i wouldnt let personal disdain stand in the way of actual historical facts.

my blood dont bleed Bruce....but i bet you will NEVER stump me in a Nebraska or Wild Innocent E Street Shuffle contest.

you don't have to like the Roots at all. but you cant front on our historical context as far as influence is concerned which in the long run? is better than "hits"

in english....

i do not want him saying niggas just "standing around" doing jack.

NO! LIST
Tom Petty
M J
Zeppelin
Springsteen
Neil Young
Eagles
Ray Charles
Madonna
Chuck Berry
South Park TV Songs
Justin Timberlake
"Food Glorious Food"
"Twilight Zone" theme
"A Boy Named Sue"
"Night Moves"
"The Situation"
"Superbowl Shuffle"

lol..

indirectly he's mad at you for that..lol. He's on some Mobb Deep... "If R.Kelly can't eat...can't nobody eat" type...

he talkin out his ass right now....

I know it's irritating, but maxxx has got his tongue in cheek with a lot of this stuff.

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you certainly give him a lot of credit.

Full Force deserve a lot more respect than they receive. Even in this post you see everyone talking shit about everything from their hair to calling them strippers (something none of these people would do to their face) but the fact is they were some talented dudes who put on a fun, entertaining live show and deserve a lot more respect from the R&B community for their contributions.

One band lipsynched to backing tracks - even in concert.

Even the musical parts not just the back up vocals.

Then would strip to bikini undewear - half the band still faking the funk like they playing with instruments on and bikinis.

Other half of the band? Doing pushups and pouring baby oil all over themselves. Really? REALLY????


The other?

Live musicianship always and has played with everyone under the son and has always been dope.

No sir, hardly a good comparison.

That's really like comparing

The Back Street Boys to the Crusaders.

C'mon people. That's revisionism at it's finest.

THE HOME OF BOOK-NESS:
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http://www.facebook.com/book1


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Hi Pete, if you're peeping.

------------------------------------------
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mistamonotone - taboo
http://mistamonotone.bandcamp.com/album/taboo

@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

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(...that dropped around the same time), but didn't know that was Full Force. That would make it even more hilarious.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

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Full Force where studio pony's.

When they performed live they normally used backing tracks.

If anything they were the East coast's reaction to the Minneapolis success...

same with Ready for the World who were from Detroit I think? can't remember. Those two in terms of performance was very similar - however in terms of studio work FF was definitey thinking big and out of the box long before their counterparts who were only thinking Record Deal.

hiphop was Ny so there was no escaping it.

In terms of studio success? You could easily compare them to your Jam and Lewis' and actually to me that's a much better fit.

Forget the genre's for a second.

>Full Force where studio pony's.
>
>When they performed live they normally used backing tracks.
>
>If anything they were the East coast's reaction to the
>Minneapolis success...

and one thing I thought curious was that there was no mention of Prince at all in the show. But maybe again I'm not surprised because people often ignore Prince's impact on the intersection between R&B/Funk and Hip hop. People act like Prince didn't exist at the time when he was the most important and influential figure in Black music at the time this was happening...I mean Paul and them didn't tie lace around they heads just out of the blue...lol. And when you really look at the evolution of from the funk....to the more synth-based funk...then you get to the electro-funk era (or some call it freestyle)..... but the thing is that Prince as being the latest One-man band, self-contained prodigy of that time..very much influenced people who were making that electro funk....listen to the synth lines in songs like Sexual Harrassment's I need a Freak....

and also the fact that Full Force looked to start "protege" groups...centered around a sexy "ethnic" looking female. Where they get that from???



>same with Ready for the World who were from Detroit I think?
>can't remember. Those two in terms of performance was very
>similar - however in terms of studio work FF was definitey
>thinking big and out of the box long before their counterparts
>who were only thinking Record Deal.

yeah RFTW were from Flint....I see the similarities...particularly with the Jheri Curls lol.. but I think Ready for the World were a more musician based "band" then Full Force.... they were very much Prince Minneapolis sound clones..but honestly had some solid work on their albums.

>hiphop was Ny so there was no escaping it.
>
>In terms of studio success? You could easily compare them to
>your Jam and Lewis' and actually to me that's a much better
>fit.
>
>Forget the genre's for a second.


I see your point

>

>but I
>think Ready for the World were a more musician based "band"
>then Full Force.... they were very much Prince Minneapolis
>sound clones..but honestly had some solid work on their
>albums.

Calling them a "studio pony" just isn't accurate. I'm not sure what their shows sounded like in the very beginning... but I saw them right after Long Time Coming dropped and they were legit. I wouldn't call them great but they gave a solid professional level show. I'd have put them right there with a group like Lakeside or Brass Construction.

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Not Ready for the World - FF were studio pony's.

"same with Ready for the World who were from Detroit I think?"

That line was about the reaction to the Minneapolis Sound...

my bad
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"and one thing I thought curious was that there was no mention of Prince at all in the show. But maybe again I'm not surprised because people often ignore Prince's impact on the intersection between R&B/Funk and Hip hop. People act like Prince didn't exist at the time when he was the most important and influential figure in Black music at the time this was happening...I mean Paul and them didn't tie lace around they heads just out of the blue...lol. And when you really look at the evolution of from the funk....to the more synth-based funk...then you get to the electro-funk era (or some call it freestyle)..... but the thing is that Prince as being the latest One-man band, self-contained prodigy of that time..very much influenced people who were making that electro funk....listen to the synth lines in songs like Sexual Harrassment's I need a Freak....

and also the fact that Full Force looked to start "protege" groups...centered around a sexy "ethnic" looking female. Where they get that from??? "

Exactly - the gear, the stage set up, the unneeded guitar solos - yeah if they didn't mention Prince they are just lying. They were Prince knockoff's. It was the time and the sound, I personally never thought they had a true blue signature sound - just more ability to stay relevant. You see this to be true in 2000 when they attempted a comeback by re-working WuTang's record and singing it on Soul Train. All types of horrible.


>same with Ready for the World who were from Detroit I think?
>can't remember. Those two in terms of performance was very
>similar - however in terms of studio work FF was definitey
>thinking big and out of the box long before their counterparts
>who were only thinking Record Deal.

yeah RFTW were from Flint....I see the similarities...particularly with the Jheri Curls lol.. but I think Ready for the World were a more musician based "band" then Full Force.... they were very much Prince Minneapolis sound clones..but honestly had some solid work on their albums. "

hahaha.. yea, lace, jeri curls. I mean it was the 80's and neither sect brought anything new to the table. It's true about RFTW - definitely more of a live band than FF. FF were nothing more than gimicks - you see that on Unsung, that live performance clip?
Uncles at a cookout and don't know when to stop.

The fact people wanna gloss over Prince like he didn't change the very music world we knew then and now is crazy. ALso note D'angelo does NOT have that effect. James Brown did, Bowie did - another argument all together but you get my point.

>The fact people wanna gloss over Prince like he didn't change
>the very music world we knew then and now is crazy. ALso note
>D'angelo does NOT have that effect. James Brown did, Bowie
>did - another argument all together but you get my point.

it fits into a bigger discussion I want to have about D... but doing it right now might come off too "haterish" with how excited some of his fans are over his return. When this all dies down we can dig into this topic in a serious manner.


_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

>it fits into a bigger discussion I want to have about D... but
>doing it right now might come off too "haterish" with how
>excited some of his fans are over his return. When this all
>dies down we can dig into this topic in a serious manner.

I think most of your thoughts about D are more or less in line with mine, but I appreciate the fact that you are allowed to voice them without being accused of vicious haterism lol

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

but I would also say that's hard to do with just two albums.

Voodoo made an impact but I strongly feel most folks were in that headspace already anyway.

Most of the myth of D'angelo came from Quest and since we respected him and respect him so much we listened.

I listened only cause of Quest and Dilla's involvement.

More importantly the internet was new to us, so that type of package (where your favorite drummer co-signed releases) was a first. After DYWM and more importantly Illadelph, Quest could have put a pair of shades on a roll of Charmin and called it "White Fever - the new king of soul" and I would have bought tix to see him live in concert. The results, along with being butt ass naked (actually he had on lace panties - no lie, the behind the scene stills from that shoot.. I dunno fam) helped as well. Just so happens the album was good. Not great, not legendary - but a good, solid album. For me a nice follow up to Brown Sugar. However I geeked out over neither album. The myth? It took five years of genius to make. SMH.

Prince wrote and played everything on his albums and released them every year. Not to mention, each one was groundbreaking, each one would go on as a staple/cornerstone album from 78 (his first album For You is open to discussion but) to 88.

I already listed what he accomplished.

D'angelo has never played all the instruments on his records however - that would be fine with me if we could just stop referencing someone he's not and will never be - Prince. Not a comparison at all - total Apples and Oranges.

Hell you'd be better to compare him to a Teddy Pendergrass - great drummer, amazing singer, massive female effect.

However - the main problem with D and this site?

How are artists allowed to call themselves legends?

How are artists allowed to sell their own myth thru friends?

Shouldn't that be for the fans to decide? My guess is that whole 'motto' and belief was sold to them thru this site.

No? How many got conned for the Jazzyfatnastees album(s) plural?
Cody Chestnutt's Un-"Headphone Masterpiece"? (I like Cody btw)
or Jaguar "Keep her as far away from the bar as possible... and spandex for that matter" Wright?

Shit.


They were told who the legends were before time allowed that story to be told.

There = I opened the discussion (Quest is a man like ya'll are, stop bowing down and just speak). Also note: hate is hate, critical analysis is something totally different.

Peace.

for details.

>but I would also say that's hard to do with just two albums.
>
>Voodoo made an impact but I strongly feel most folks were in
>that headspace already anyway.
>
>Most of the myth of D'angelo came from Quest and since we
>respected him and respect him so much we listened.
>
>I listened only cause of Quest and Dilla's involvement.
>
>More importantly the internet was new to us, so that type of
>package (where your favorite drummer co-signed releases) was a
>first. After DYWM and more importantly Illadelph, Quest could
>have put a pair of shades on a roll of Charmin and called it
>"White Fever - the new king of soul" and I would have bought
>tix to see him live in concert. The results, along with being
>butt ass naked (actually he had on lace panties - no lie, the
>behind the scene stills from that shoot.. I dunno fam) helped
>as well. Just so happens the album was good. Not great, not
>legendary - but a good, solid album. For me a nice follow up
>to Brown Sugar. However I geeked out over neither album. The
>myth? It took five years of genius to make. SMH.


Bilal....Musiq Soulchild.... in particular....and the entire so-called neo-soul movement was influenced by him. Bilal and Musiq in particular with their live shows...

but see not only is it hard to influence people based on 2 albums...but it's also difficult to influence something when people who do what you do aren't availed the mainstream opportunities they once were..

there have been a couple of awards shows over the past couple of years where the only Black man on the show who "sang" on the show were Kanye and Lil Wayne....

I mean when it's rolling like that it's hard for a guy like D'Angelo to be an influence in that type of environment..

which is why one of the great things about him coming back out is that he'll get some opportunities based on his past success..and possible raise the bar on performances again...you will hopefully see less lip syncing and dat playing live on this award shows and the like...




>
>Prince wrote and played everything on his albums and released
>them every year. Not to mention, each one was groundbreaking,
>each one would go on as a staple/cornerstone album from 78
>(his first album For You is open to discussion but) to 88.
>
>I already listed what he accomplished.


But Prince did that during a time where the standard for playing and performing was the same as it had been for years. A guy doing what Prince did was not outside the norm....so the fact that he did it well..the climate was acceptable for him to do so, and for others to do so because it was acceptable..it was the norm. Once that template changed...the standard was lowered...what was required was less than what was required before....



>D'angelo has never played all the instruments on his records
>however - that would be fine with me if we could just stop
>referencing someone he's not and will never be - Prince. Not
>a comparison at all - total Apples and Oranges.
>
>Hell you'd be better to compare him to a Teddy Pendergrass -
>great drummer, amazing singer, massive female effect.
>
>However - the main problem with D and this site?
>
>How are artists allowed to call themselves legends?
>
>How are artists allowed to sell their own myth thru friends?
>
>Shouldn't that be for the fans to decide? My guess is that
>whole 'motto' and belief was sold to them thru this site.
>
>No? How many got conned for the Jazzyfatnastees album(s)
>plural?
>Cody Chestnutt's Un-"Headphone Masterpiece"? (I like Cody
>btw)
>or Jaguar "Keep her as far away from the bar as possible...
>and spandex for that matter" Wright?
>
>Shit.
>
>
>They were told who the legends were before time allowed that
>story to be told.

I think you're overstating this a bit man. If people say something is good...or compare something to something else...they aren't necessarily saying that person is a legend.....

not every compliment is a proclamation of legendary status...


>
>There = I opened the discussion (Quest is a man like ya'll
>are, stop bowing down and just speak). Also note: hate is
>hate, critical analysis is something totally different.
>
>Peace.
>

Quest or no quest...D' Brings it live on stage.... If people want to point out where he is "copying" someone else...then that's fine..but you can do the same thing with Prince...and any other artist...

Let me just say, I like D'angelo. As I have said all thru these posts - he's dope. Why folks have to go beyond that is really the issue - seems premature.


"Bilal....Musiq Soulchild.... in particular....and the entire so-called neo-soul movement was influenced by him. Bilal and Musiq in particular with their live shows..."

but most of them worked with the same set of producers and musicians.
Definitely a Philly Internationl thing happening here - not so much as one man influencing everyone. I have to poitely disagree. I think that robs Bilal and Musiq of several things -

their talent
their own personal stories and history

simply not fair.

If anything the influence was from Questo. If anything the influence was from Qtip (two Q's? Interesting. Add Quincy and it gest spooky). Not to mention Dilla. And ya know it's really hard to say beyond that I would have to hear from Bilal and Musiq to know who they listened to but I would suspect

Stevie Wonder
Donny Hathaway &
Charlie Wilson.

The end. Lol.

I have always said post Prince there are three men who have directly changed black music FOR THE BETTER (cause I know some clown will mention Dre) - Qtip, Questo, Dilla - however there are tons of great cats, Primo, Pete, Large Pro and so on. You can quote me on that.

"but see not only is it hard to influence people based on 2 albums...but it's also difficult to influence something when people who do what you do aren't availed the mainstream opportunities they once were..

there have been a couple of awards shows over the past couple of years where the only Black man on the show who "sang" on the show were Kanye and Lil Wayne...."

Basically - yeah totally.


"I mean when it's rolling like that it's hard for a guy like D'Angelo to be an influence in that type of environment.."

Agreed. And let me point out again, this isn't a bash D, I like the brother - this is a 'let's be real and normal for a second and kill all the promotion'.


"which is why one of the great things about him coming back out is that he'll get some opportunities based on his past success..and possible raise the bar on performances again...you will hopefully see less lip syncing and dat playing live on this award shows and the like..."

That remains to be seen - but fuck that I'm happy he's back. However good music is out there it's just the public is in limbo as to how to get it. I mean cats like you and I may be online and familiar but we have to consider the millions of others who are not.


>
>Prince wrote and played everything on his albums and released
>them every year. Not to mention, each one was groundbreaking,
>each one would go on as a staple/cornerstone album from 78
>(his first album For You is open to discussion but) to 88.
>
>I already listed what he accomplished.


"But Prince did that during a time where the standard for playing and performing was the same as it had been for years. A guy doing what Prince did was not outside the norm....so the fact that he did it well..the climate was acceptable for him to do so, and for others to do so because it was acceptable..it was the norm. Once that template changed...the standard was lowered...what was required was less than what was required before...."

It was completely out of the norm actually hence Warner Brother's whole original Prince kit billing him as the next Stevie.

Also him scoring the biggest deal since Stevie.

Prince was young, talented, and clever.

No one had a studio in their home then - it was a total luxury so securing Moon's studio was genius in itself for one man.

I mean to be truthful the 4 track didn't even become a popular feature amoung folks until the late 80's. Meaning in thier homes. Sure it existed - as I pointed out in another post the Beatles recording their two sonic masterpieces on 4 tracks - but you get my point.


>D'angelo has never played all the instruments on his records
>however - that would be fine with me if we could just stop
>referencing someone he's not and will never be - Prince. Not
>a comparison at all - total Apples and Oranges.
>
>Hell you'd be better to compare him to a Teddy Pendergrass -
>great drummer, amazing singer, massive female effect.
>
>However - the main problem with D and this site?
>
>How are artists allowed to call themselves legends?
>
>How are artists allowed to sell their own myth thru friends?
>
>Shouldn't that be for the fans to decide? My guess is that
>whole 'motto' and belief was sold to them thru this site.
>
>No? How many got conned for the Jazzyfatnastees album(s)
>plural?
>Cody Chestnutt's Un-"Headphone Masterpiece"? (I like Cody
>btw)
>or Jaguar "Keep her as far away from the bar as possible...
>and spandex for that matter" Wright?
>
>Shit.
>
>
>They were told who the legends were before time allowed that
>story to be told.

"I think you're overstating this a bit man. If people say something is good...or compare something to something else...they aren't necessarily saying that person is a legend....."

Only because the Prince nonsense keeps getting sold.
That's merely for the sake of clarity cause I have pointed out I like D as D. His voice is great, I personally think he's looking great, and doing the right things and really that's what matters most. The Funkadelic comparison's the P comparison's - it's fake. So folks doing it just need to stop.

if there is anyone painting D'angelo as a no talent tho - that's just hating. Straight up and down and I do see that happening, why? Who knows but who cares really lol.

"not every compliment is a proclamation of legendary status..."

Yeah I know - but what you do call - "on some Hazel shit" or catching up with Zappa in 4 years is the issue. Why even go there?
That's pressure like a I don't know what. It's silly. Plus it gives people leverage to attack the man cause he's referencing beloved figures.

>
>There = I opened the discussion (Quest is a man like ya'll
>are, stop bowing down and just speak). Also note: hate is
>hate, critical analysis is something totally different.
>
>Peace.
>

"Quest or no quest...D' Brings it live on stage.... If people want to point out where he is "copying" someone else...then that's fine..but you can do the same thing with Prince...and any other artist..."

You can certainly name Prince - but to be fair, Prince has since taken that influence and changed music forever. To even put anyone - even D - anywhere near his level is ridiculously short sighted and perhaps revisionist in itself.

However I think you may only be highlighting the criticism and we have to expet that. I have also said when d'angelo is sitting down, playing keys and singing? He's incredible. That keys set for me - was better than both tours. Just that.

I'm also the author of the post "D'angelo is gonna come back and kick you in the nuts" hahaha...

I mean, I get it trust me but I'm just find no need to bring the past into this which is why I mentioned other artists - my way of saying if those kinds of critiques are being offered - then fans of those artists who are fully familiar with their history may wanna point out some obvious oversight that's all and they have every right to cause those artists belong to all of us.

For example, I saw Mint Condition a few years back - amazing as you would expect me to say. Afterward my boy says "man they are the new Earth Wind and Fire". Clearly I was distraught. I just said "Why? WHYYYYY?" - not for clarity's sake but why?

I just wanted to hear Mint Condition put on a great show.
Their name still sucks tho -
lol.

>Most of the myth of D'angelo

I mean it's more than that but that really is one of the pillars of the whole issue... I'm just not ready to go there yet.

Maybe in a week or two
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

but hey ppl wanna believe Diana found Mj

lol - it is what it is.

Hell they don't wanna believe Prince may have been gay. Despite the panties and thigh high boots. I mean I don't know one way or the other but clearly the Giants game wasn't on his mind. lol.

Still happy he's back and performing and shutting up everyone who tried to play him out like he isn't a really good performer.

Good for him.