One of the big reasons why I hate people throwing out sales as a way to validate the quality of a record (yeah I still call them records so what) is that it ignores the fickleness of the public. There have been many good albums by known artists that would have been bigger had they come at a different time... just because the artist or sound was no longer hot doesn't mean the album itself wasn't good.

I was thinking about this a few weeks back while listening to Roger Troutman's Bridging the Gap from 1991. Honestly that album is as good or better than half the Roger & Zapp catalog... but Roger was no longer the name he was then... or would become again post California Love. So for the most part it went ignored by the public but when played now really stands out as a gem in his catalog. You have to wonder what a cat like that feels when they pour everything into an album and know it's good only to have it fall flat.

But what made me decide to just make a post about this was the discussion about The System's Rhythm and Romance album. While the System was coming off their biggest hit with "Don't Disturb This Groove" a lot had changed in the 2 1/2 years it took them to follow up. New Jack Swing had firmly established itself has the dominate style in R&B and with it came a host of new acts and style. The System used some elements of NJS on this album (did a damn good job of it too) but they were part of the old school and no longer cool. It's really a shame because other than the debut album this is the duos most complete effort song wise.

Any way I think that should give you the idea of the type of albums I'm talking about. So let's show a little love to quality projects that were simply a victim of their times.
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The System Rhythm and Romance

Have Mercy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1fwEf17-8k

Guardian Angel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgkDv7qHqHg

Roger Bridging The Gap

Everybody Get Up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NICDm07IUwY

Take Me Back http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0CFGXIjNNY

Emotions http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XhPsi_Tfjo&feature=related

You Should Be Mine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGsbzjSyIL4


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by absorbing all the sony budget and in effect killing of the work imprint. then kelis came along took her shit and ran with it.
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
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The Underbelly - http://bit.ly/f5BmBR
RIPL - http://bit.ly/e5wzxn
Read me write - http://themoshi.tumblr.com/

I know I heard it once at a listening station, back when there were actual record stores, but nothing jumped out at me. Sounds like I need to go back and revisit it in a more in depth manner.
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Latest episode- Slave Tribute (RIP Mark L. Adams)

Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

I was one of those people that got on board with "5"

Before that he only had a couple songs I fucked with
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*

I'm not a fan of that type of rock at all so Circus isn't something that moves me.
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his production on cree's record is what makes it spectacular
i dont think it would've been as good if she had someone else behind the board

prime example is my fav joint from her record: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztrSUTRYC-A

Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

Yeah I remember this song... like the song, hate her voice.
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I think there was a time (late 90s?) when underground rap was really hip and fresh, and then the underground rap kids got too self-righteous, too elitist, too white. So critics, writers and fans kind of turned on it at the turn of the millennium, instead embracing the polar opposite: ultra violent coke-rap (not that there isn't some good stuff in there too). We all remember how that happened, right?

But there were some really good indie hip hop releases to come out after the backlash, stuff like "I'll Sleep When You're Dead" (El-P's best work, for my money), "You Can't Imagine How Much Fun We're Having" (probably Atmosphere's most solid, listenable album... and yeah I'm sure it sold well, but I don't remember there being as big a buzz around it as some of their earlier stuff), B.Dolan's "Fallen House, Sunken City" (super slept on), Blue Scholars, Psalm One, Lyrics Born-- the list goes on.

But critics-- and listeners, to some extent-- needed to distance themselves from both the perception and the reality that underground rap was nerdy white elitist sci-fi BS. So I think some really interesting stuff got lost in the mix.

--------
Guante: www.guante.info
Tru Ruts/Speakeasy Records

both in the storm and heart,mind & soul come to mind

just a few years later and maybe folks would've known about them

Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

and in the storm was 2 years early
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...Well for heart, the Face stuff was late but that was wb. The initial record was all El and WB sent him back to do some work with Face.
but the songs that el did were still ahead of the trend
Heart, Mind and Soul (the song) was a precursor to UHS

and folks weren't channeling Marvin the El did on both of those records.
took the neo soul crew to start that a few years later

Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

>...Well for heart, the Face stuff was late but that was wb.
>The initial record was all El and WB sent him back to do some
>work with Face.

That's what I'm saying... the Face tracks would have been hits a couple years earlier.


>and folks weren't channeling Marvin the El did on both of
>those records.
>took the neo soul crew to start that a few years later

Again this was my point. The Storm was ahead of the trend.


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in addition to the el fiasco
they shelved chaka khan's finest solo record to date (dare you to love me)
and made her put out a greatest hits record instead.

Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

at least, thats what i remember her dress reading.

********************************************************************




"I *always* quote myself. I'm the only reliable source on *most* subjects" - OKP's First Lady of Knowledge, Janey

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/060830/175059__macy_l.jpg

********************************************************************




"I *always* quote myself. I'm the only reliable source on *most* subjects" - OKP's First Lady of Knowledge, Janey

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*

Thank God for the Jingling Baby remix.

Yup.

I didn't hear it until after I heard "Mama Said" but it became my favorite LL album. The beats were odd but in a good way. It sounded like a 70's action movie. Outside of a couple of crappy I Need Love wannabes it was dope to me. Plus, the copy I have has Jack the Ripper on it.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/19/TheCoupCoverLarge.jpg
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Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
http://concretesoundsystem.com
The Underbelly - http://bit.ly/f5BmBR
RIPL - http://bit.ly/e5wzxn
Read me write - http://themoshi.tumblr.com/

I'd think that provided some publicity for them.

********************************************************************




"I *always* quote myself. I'm the only reliable source on *most* subjects" - OKP's First Lady of Knowledge, Janey

This is false. They were definitely not as popular as they had been but the Coup was a well-known early-mid nineties act, with a couple of critically acclaimed albums under their belts. They moved decent units for an overtly political rap group that survived the jump from 1992 to the Bad Boy-Death Row. Their videos got played...to say that no one knew them except for that cover is misleading and insulting to a pretty important California rap group.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

to more outsiders than there were insiders who knew/loved/bought the Coup.

There was controversy around that album that got them mainstream media attention that just werent getting before.

This doesnt need to be emotional. It just seems like more people know the Coup for the controversy than know them for their prior work. But I'm in Canada and white so WTF do I know?

********************************************************************




"I *always* quote myself. I'm the only reliable source on *most* subjects" - OKP's First Lady of Knowledge, Janey

beat that.

now when mufuckas look at my id and see my bday they go "im so sorry..." and I'm like "what? sorry i was born, bitch?!?! Eat a dick covered in world trade rubble, hoe!"

~-~-~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



http://slickshoes.bandcamp.com
http://thephilosophy.bandcamp.com/
http://soundcloud.com/spread-1
http://soundcloud.com/spreaducation
http://twitter.com/Spready4DaWorld

and were still rewarded with very high sales.

I'm sure it's my bias...but I feel that it may be the best musical masterpiece Rap has seen. However, it came out 2, almost 3 years after the West's major decline, and was basically ignored by most folks outside of the West who weren't already Quik fans. It didn't really gain him any new fans, although it made his current fans say GOT DAMN! It dropped in what was arguably the worst year for the West of the 90's (1998), seeing that we came back strong in 99 and held on til maybe 2001.

------------------------------

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I know some would turn their nose up at the suggestion but IMO it's one of the greats. As you said musically it can't be touched. I'm not sure we've seen anything in the genre before or since that grooved as hard as Rhythmalism did. This is the album that made me realize he belonged in the pantheon of Funk/R&B greats.
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This album blew me away from day one. And I was in 8th grade when it came out haha. Musical masterpiece is an understatement.

Speaking of which I can't wait for April 20th.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Yeah, everybody I know here is more hype for BOK than for Detox.

------------------------------

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I went out and bought the first two singles off amazon and will be coppin the album the day it drops.
_________________________________
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Listen to the album cuts on shit like 2nd II None Classic 220, Suga Free Street Gospel, and Mausberg Non-Fiction...the effort and grooves he put into these damn ALBUM CUTS for artists who would never even go gold was amazing to me. And it's almost a clash that these niggs are talkin about nothing but hood shit, pimpin, drug dealin, etc. etc. on the songs. I think a lot of these songs may have worked better for Raphael Saadiq or some R&B artists instead of rappers.

But yeah, I knew it was something major when my Dad who hated most Rap back then was watching him and MC Eiht on BET Tavis Smiley, and he was like "WOW!! WHO IS THIS????" and I was like wtf, my dad actually likes a song called "You'z a gangsta?" But that instrumental alone shits on most of what I hear on Smooth Jazz stations. And wild, out of nowhere shit like "Thinkin bout u?" Man.

------------------------------

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for like 6 straight weeks when that single first dropped. And being a big Snoop fan, when Snoop said Quik would be doing a lot of work on Top Dogg at the time I was infinitely pumped.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IJK6m-rTZs

.
*****
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5P6zdlPJ34&feature=related
^^^ever walked the streets of...

Although this album wasn't great as far as sales, it became his calling card record (producer record). I remember fools were buzzing abt Quik b/c of this record.

This shit remind me of the get-togethers. They would always threw this CD and just let it play all the way thru.

http://soundcloud.com/deemack1

i picked that lp up in a 2 dollar bin a year after it came out...best 2 dollar purchase ever

~-~-~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



http://slickshoes.bandcamp.com
http://thephilosophy.bandcamp.com/
http://soundcloud.com/spread-1
http://soundcloud.com/spreaducation
http://twitter.com/Spready4DaWorld

------------------------------

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Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

what got me into it, Rap City used to do this thing where they would play a verse from an "upcoming" song. They did this with The Roots ("The Next Movement") and again with Quik and some others...

that's what got me to get that CD

the funny thing about that, is thinking about that NOW, makes me think of the david bammer theory

I think 6-7 years ago, this album probably would have made more noise. She could have ridden that alternative wave of R&B like Kelis, NERD, Res, Van Hunt...Plus she could have taken better advantage of all the media hype and 5 star reviews she received. She'd at least have gotten more airplay.

That Tightrope song was big. Her name is currently big and getting bigger.

It's way to early in its lifespan to call it a "victim"

********************************************************************




"I *always* quote myself. I'm the only reliable source on *most* subjects" - OKP's First Lady of Knowledge, Janey

...and the fact that she received little to no airplay despite the buzz and Bad Boy (*snickers*) in her corner, it seems like people were determined not to fuck with her. I mean, all the media accolades and none of her songs charted. Her album debuted at #17 then plummeted within a couple of weeks. Her wiki says she's only sold 141,000 copies since its release.

I just think it's strange radio didn't pick up on "Tightrope" or "Cold War" when a couple of years ago everybody was pumping "Hey Ya" and "Crazy". How did Cee-Lo get a platinum plaque for his "Fuck You" single, when "Tightrope" IMO was just as catchy and danceable? (Though, ain't nobody buying Cee-Lo's album either).

I just think if she'd have dropped back then she have had a better chance of blowing up. She could have played up the Big Boi/Outkast connection. Audiences were still somewhat receptive of varying sounds.

Her image probably hurt her some, and had people scratching their heads (including myself when she went from boho to robo). But image-wise, I don't think she's doing anything different than Gaga, Katy Perry, Rihanna, or anyone else relying heavily on the visual as opposed to the music.

She was media chosen, and very few supported the effort.

and tons of critical acclaim and sold lots of copies...not feeling sorry for her at all

~-~-~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



http://slickshoes.bandcamp.com
http://thephilosophy.bandcamp.com/
http://soundcloud.com/spread-1
http://soundcloud.com/spreaducation
http://twitter.com/Spready4DaWorld

No charted singles. Plus I think the media hype was really a reaction to the weak material flooding the market, since she was musically different than the rest of mainstream music. But it was also a calculated "Let's hype this girl up now, so we can say we told you so, after she blows up" moment.

During a time where R&B songs with guest rappers took over.


One Way feat Al Hudson
So Afraid It's Over
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmuq2ttuxpw

the music, lyrics and even song titles were way more abstract than on Urban Hang Suite, which was more straightforward r&b/soul.

So many people who loved UHS were like "wtf is he talking about on Embrya. And what the fuck is an Embrya anyways?????"

Oddly enough, I really liked it at the time and still do.
______________________________________________________________________________

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
-unknown

"To Each His Reach"
-George Clinton

It is as good or better than the Infamous, but all that return fire at Tupac was very ill timed.

Taking shots in the dark/that's a bad call
Going straight for your head/ gotta saw it off

My only guess would be that post Lauryn's Miseducation, the public had their fill of a dreadlocked R&B chick? Or, Lauryn going full on batshit by 01', people steered clear...

Destiny's Child, etc...shifted the paradigm away from the "Neo-Soul" sound...

IDK, I never understood why she wasn't catapulted to stardom after that album. Sexy, marketable to music heads,...??? Still my favorite R&B album, but maybe that's because it didn't blow up

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

she didnt have "hits" like lauryn did. show me a Lost Ones or Everything or Doo Wop or Ex Factor. Those songs were undeniable pop gold. Res got the basic credit that album deserved.

********************************************************************




"I *always* quote myself. I'm the only reliable source on *most* subjects" - OKP's First Lady of Knowledge, Janey

ec was a victim of a label disintegration and the times.

********************************************************************




"I *always* quote myself. I'm the only reliable source on *most* subjects" - OKP's First Lady of Knowledge, Janey

P.A.- Straight No Chase. Really great album, but it was 1998 and with everything that was coming out, even just out of Atlanta, this album was forgotten quickly.

>P.A.- Straight No Chase. Really great album, but it was 1998
>and with everything that was coming out, even just out of
>Atlanta, this album was forgotten quickly.

Ecstasy & China White were dope.

Props for even mentioning PA. Their finger prints are all over ATL but hardly anyone has heard of them.

They're the first group to come out of the Dungeon Family, plus they put on the Youngbloodz and TI. Dope producers also.

...was dope too. Them cats had some serious production.

--------------------

blah blah blah

After dropping either socially conscious grooves, and loverman tunes, I don't think the public was really ready for angsty/concept-album Marvin.
______________________________________________________________________________

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
-unknown

"To Each His Reach"
-George Clinton

jamal-last chance, no breaks
twinz- conversation
snoop- blue carpet
roots- game theory

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

95 was one of the peak years for the West Coast...so was it because there was too much competition?

------------------------------

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Shit was a great disc.

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
http://linktr.ee/yothatsmyjawn

>I was thinking about this a few weeks back while listening to
>Roger Troutman's Bridging the Gap from 1991. Honestly that
>album is as good or better than half the Roger & Zapp
>catalog... but Roger was no longer the name he was then... or
>would become again post California Love. So for the most part
>it went ignored by the public but when played now really
>stands out as a gem in his catalog. You have to wonder what a
>cat like that feels when they pour everything into an album
>and know it's good only to have it fall flat.

that album was way better than ZAPP V-IBE, and the funniest thing about that album... was EPMD sampled it the NEXT year (for "Crossover")!! there used to be an unspoken rule about not sampling something so close to the current year, but since one of EPMD's hallmarks was using Zapp beats, no one seemed to notice (largely because it was already so obscure).

I went looking for that album soon after I got BUSINESS NEVER PERSONAL... it was cool, because it was one of the few Zapp/Roger records I could find in the store. "Reflections", "Take Me Back"... those are two of my favorite Roger songs ever. Not to mention, "You Should Be Mine". It sounded very contemporary, but very ZAPP.

i been listening to this album a lot lately and i think it sounds good today....i was in the 11th grade when the album drop but i only knew the single back then(al b. sure sample)...like you said about the system their time passed and a good album was lost in the shuffle....

the world is a toll-free toilet-george clinton

but stevie was commericially hot then and he isn't now,
so there you go...


not saying jungle fever is a songs in the key of life kind
of bar to set... but based on quality.... a time to love
should have done better.

from what i read,
the album was sort of overlooked at the time,
mostly because it sounded nothing like liscned to ill.

it's like a cult favorite now.

but i wasn't paying attention to rap back then,
so somebody correct me if i'm wrong.

>from what i read,
>the album was sort of overlooked at the time,
>mostly because it sounded nothing like liscned to ill.
>
>it's like a cult favorite now.
>
>but i wasn't paying attention to rap back then,
>so somebody correct me if i'm wrong.
>
>


lurkin since 1999. werd.