I'm pretty happy with the talent that's out there right now but I really do think we needs groups to take this thing all the way back to where we once had it.

And by groups I don't mean 3-4 dudes that just rap or sing. I'm talking full on collectives of musicians, singers, rappers, song-writers and producers. I don't really want to use the term "band" because you don't have to be a band in the traditional sense to do what I'm talking about. A duo like the System or a trio like Guy would qualify but I really think we need 4+ member collectives to do this right... of course with collectives like that you usually have a leader that does a lot of the heavy lifting in the studio... but I still think having others to give input leads to better songs and music in the long run. I look at Outkast and the Dungeon Family team as proof of this.

It was the Reggie B thread that got me to thinking about this. The last few years we've seen guys like Reggie, Vikter Duplaix, Ryan Leslie, Dam-Funk, etc come on the scene. For the most part these guys are doing all the writing and playing themselves. Now don't get me wrong, I've been a big fan of the one man band approach ever since I first got into Prince. But the thing is that used to be the exception not the rule. Most artists just aren't equipped to wear all those hats and produce high quality music on a consistent basis.

I know we have a few writing and production teams out there but I don't think it really replaces a true group that tours, creates and records together. A band like N.E.R.D. is cool but I'd like to see more people go the Lucy Pearl rout as a way of jump starting the return to black groups. Some of the names I mentioned above could be monsters in a group... each bringing their strengths and have fellow band members cover their weaknesses. Hopefully with a few A and B level names hooking up, we could create an environment that could spawn some younger groups that can rise through the ranks like used to be the case.

Maybe the system today just makes this impossible on a major scale. But I still believe quality wise we've not going to be able to take that final step until black groups are once again prevalent.
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because as I started reading the post, the first thing that came into my mind was "Yeah, I agree... Just as long as it's not groups like Lucy Pearl!"

My problem with LP was that the group seemed too image-driven. Like it was supposed to make you go "oh shit!" that these three giants from different fields of music were coming together, but on a practical level the division of labor in the group was not clear. I just felt lie it didn't add up right.

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But it was the first step back... If this is going to happen it's going to be because some recognizable names join forces. As I stated the end results I'm looking for are real groups that come up and grow together... and then eventually split up and go solo lol

But I just don't see this gaining any momentum without it gaining traction in the mainstream... and the only way you're going to do that is with names.
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massive disappointment?

cats don't even record in the same studios anymore, if they even use actual studios...I feel like a lot of the production teams, musical families and bands of the 60's, 70's and 80's came about because there were cats on the same record label spending days and weeks in the same studio while the record company foot the bill...You also had great studio musicians like Bernard Purdy, Joe Sample, Ray Parker, Idris Muhammed, etc to give many different groups a similar sound...Talk shit about record labels all you want but no way Luther Vandross sings backup vocals for David Bowie without good ol' RCA...I know that particular collab is not what this post is about but it is an extreme example of what was possible when the record labels, studios and music industry had money...
I'm not saying it is impossible for these talented artists to form supergroups on their own, but there was a culture of collaboration in the music industry of the past...now almost everything you hear released is a product of multiple overdubs...the only time studios record full bands anymore is the case of jazz bands or classical music...
And where are the venues for these artists to collab besides the studio? Sometimes you might see an artist in NY or LA and they have some special guests come on stage with them and jam or play an improv tune or something...but it rarely happens anymore like it used to...it funny hte only artist that is really still doing the after-set all-star jam session thing anymore is PRINCE and he started all this studio virtuoso shit...actually I gotta give props to ?uestlove too for TRYING at least to get great artists together on the regular

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I know we most likely will never see 10 member bands like EWF again.. but I don't think we need bands with full horn sections and shit to get a creative boost. As a matter of fact I don't know if I really even want to see bands like that again. I feel like there's a new successful model out there just waiting to be discovered. The question is who is smart enough to figure it out.
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I want it to happen...shit, I'm trying to form my own sly&the family stone type group myself...but it ain't easy

i DO wanna see bands like EWF and PFunk again, but that's just because I was born 10 years too late to see them in their prime I think...

But as a musician I have seen over the years the decline of the collaborative attitude, if that makes sense...
I'm 30 so the cats I grew up playing music with were always trying to out do each other...if someone was killin the drums you came back the next day with a BETTER beat and played that shit...there was always a friendly competition and incentive to improve musically...even as an MC and DJ this was true with my generation...but I feel like the younger musicians don't have that same spirit...there is still the "i'm better than you" attitude but not the "show and prove" action...
Now its like a special thing when a pop star knows how to write their own lyrics and play a few chords on the piano, when that should be the LEAST of their qualifications...so the young music-buying audience really has no standard to go by if this supergroup were to form...I wish it would be just about the music but if it does happen they'll prolly have to hire some marketing genius to put out any musical genius

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I agree a major star is a lot less likely to share any of the spotlight let alone the money lol

But take cats like Dam-Funk or Reggie B... how much are either of those dudes making really? I know Dam has his DJing gigs as well as his "band"... but I'd have to think it would be at least worth exploring the idea of hooking up with other artists that are out there also trying to get a foothold.
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(i'm not excluding myself from that D/E level, btw.)

just from my own experiences of being in bands, i can tell you first hand that niggas is crazy. lol.

we had this keyboard player in the group and this nigga was a fuckin' egomaniac...and hadn't (and STILL hasn't, i might add) done SHIT. this muthafucka was in MY band, not the other way around. he was good, but he wasn't THAT good. bye, bitch!

that experience fucked up my whole desire to play music, especially in a group. when i finally decided i wanted to make music again, i'd been so soiled on sharing that experience that i decided that i'd do everything by myself...hence the drum machine, etc.

a lot of people don't wanna be involved with dealing with others, regardless of how good the music is...whether it be ego or just differing visions.

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I doubt it will ever happen again because of budget and technological reasons. Anybody looking to get into music today quickly finds that basically everything encourages you to do it on your own, or with one or two close collaborators, and maybe bring in a few session guys to play the instruments you can't. It's cheaper and easier. But no one or two man band will ever make a record like "Motor Booty."

--

>Now its like a special thing when a pop star knows how to
>write their own lyrics and play a few chords on the piano,
>when that should be the LEAST of their qualifications..


that the fact that those "qualifications" you mention are so rare in the game today....folks are in denial on how that fact has impacted the quality of the music...and thus the overall quality of the artists..

not to say that there isn't good music or good artists who would have been solid in any era....but the standards of what as required at a minimum just to get some shine have been lowered so much that you really can't compare the overall quality of the artists from era to era...

what it takes now would not have even gotten you a look before. And that impacts the music.




.so the
>young music-buying audience really has no standard to go by if
>this supergroup were to form...I wish it would be just about
>the music but if it does happen they'll prolly have to hire
>some marketing genius to put out any musical genius

it's a vicious cycle....not only for the audience but for the artist.... the lowered standards births lower expectations from the public...thus less money can be spent by the labels...and the lowered bar breeds mediocre music at best....and mediocre artists..

one has to really look outside the box...

>cats don't even record in the same studios anymore, if they
>even use actual studios...I feel like a lot of the production
>teams, musical families and bands of the 60's, 70's and 80's
>came about because there were cats on the same record label
>spending days and weeks in the same studio while the record
>company foot the bill...You also had great studio musicians
>like Bernard Purdy, Joe Sample, Ray Parker, Idris Muhammed,
>etc to give many different groups a similar sound...Talk shit
>about record labels all you want but no way Luther Vandross
>sings backup vocals for David Bowie without good ol' RCA...I
>know that particular collab is not what this post is about but
>it is an extreme example of what was possible when the record
>labels, studios and music industry had money...
>I'm not saying it is impossible for these talented artists to
>form supergroups on their own, but there was a culture of
>collaboration in the music industry of the past...now almost
>everything you hear released is a product of multiple
>overdubs...the only time studios record full bands anymore is
>the case of jazz bands or classical music...
>And where are the venues for these artists to collab besides
>the studio? Sometimes you might see an artist in NY or LA and
>they have some special guests come on stage with them and jam
>or play an improv tune or something...but it rarely happens
>anymore like it used to...it funny hte only artist that is
>really still doing the after-set all-star jam session thing
>anymore is PRINCE and he started all this studio virtuoso
>shit...actually I gotta give props to ?uestlove too for TRYING
>at least to get great artists together on the regular


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Like when Boyz II Men would get called a band I wanted to scream. I also don't think of group like Guy as a band either... to me a band is a collective of musicians that can take the stage and reproduce their studio music with very little help from outside the group.

I wouldn't call Outkast and Dungeon Family and band but they fit into the model I'm taking about.... or I should say used to.
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but yeah, Spread hit it on the nose...btwn technology/economy/lack of respect for Blk music/the Prince one man does it all phenomenon....the budgets for that from labels simply dont exist...

this is what I was taumbout in the Barshop post (no plug-o)...nobody even WANTS to collab because either they tryna cake off or their ego wont let them share credit...

if cats would just get together and woodshed just for the sake of music, and let money come into it when its appropriate...we could see a change in that...


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For one thing, the costs of bands/groups is prohibitive in an era of Electronic Music. It's not like people are demanding musicianship or even multiple background vocals in black music today. It's been that way since Larry Blackmon dismissed 75% of Cameo. Then to think about touring costs....

And our society is all about the individual, you aren't likely to put a group of talented people together (especially in something as selfish/ego-driven as music)and have them willing to let everyone shine in their own way.

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People heard those keyboards and computer drums dominating his tracks, plus him credited as the only musician and figured "hell I can do that shit," not realizing Prince is a once-in-a-generation talent.

At least with Stevie you knew he had other people playing on his stuff.

I'd argue that the popularity of The Time may have been a bad look for black bands also because they were not that far off from a Milli Vanilli as far as being fake. A group of guys with the "right image" who fronted for someone else, even if people may not have realized it immediately. What's worse, they were actually talented but didn't contribute to their records.

>I'd argue that the popularity of The Time may have been a bad
>look for black bands also because they were not that far off
>from a Milli Vanilli as far as being fake. A group of guys
>with the "right image" who fronted for someone else, even if
>people may not have realized it immediately. What's worse,
>they were actually talented but didn't contribute to their
>records.

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Peter Tork was a seasoned multi-instrumentalist who was in the same scene as the likes of his roommate Steve Stills (who also auditioned for the group but didn't make it).

Mike Nesmith was also a pretty good guitarist. Davy Jones was a tight drummer.

Mickey Dolenz was probably the least talented as a musician, but he was no slouch as a singer.

The Time reminds me a lot of that group.

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>his roommate Steve Stills (who also auditioned for the group but didn't make it).


but I knew that the group did have some talent behind the "show"

And they had what it took to be one.

They fought hard with their producers to get the right to play on their own records... In the end, the producers got tired of it and basically washed their hands of the band. Their last couple of albums was all them, even after their TV show had been cancelled.

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after reading that bit.

(and I always watched the Monkees when it ran on Nick at Nite, I didn't learn the truth about that until much further down the line.)

Mike was the best writer, Peter was the best musician, Davy was the pin up boy but Micky was the best vocalist...

he was the funniest on the show...he never played drums before being cast but he learned to play for the role and he played live for all their concerts...he sucked at first but he eventually became competent...

It bothers me how much Adrian Grenier looks like young Micky...


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>It bothers me how much Adrian Grenier looks like young
>Micky...

Wow... I didn't notice that, but you're right!

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>I'd argue that the popularity of The Time may have been a bad
>look for black bands also because they were not that far off
>from a Milli Vanilli as far as being fake. A group of guys
>with the "right image" who fronted for someone else, even if
>people may not have realized it immediately. What's worse,
>they were actually talented but didn't contribute to their
>records.


Backing Vocals - Jellybean Johnson, Jerome Benton, Jesse Johnson, Jill Jones, Jimmy Jam, Karyn White, Margie Cox, Monte Moir, Terry Lewis
Bass - Terry Lewis
Drums - Jellybean Johnson
Engineer - Femi Jiya, Steve Hodge, Tom Garneau
Executive Producer - Benny Medina
Guitar - Jesse Johnson
Keyboards - Jimmy Jam, Monte Moir
Mastered By - Brian Gardner
Percussion - Jerome Benton
Producer, Arranged By, Written By - The Time
Saxophone - Candy Dulfer
Vocals - Morris Day

http://www.discogs.com/Time-Pandemonium/release/363850

The Time had (especially during the 1999-Tour) a dangerously live-reputation as supporting-act. That's why Prince decided for them not to be supporting him in major city's.
He even admitted then that the only band he feared on stage were them. Imagine the difference of impact of The Time if they would've performed right before or after Milli Vanilli's
Grammy-incident. As for the studio-imput for their first 3 albums, yeah, their absence is somewhat similar with Milli Vanilli's situation, however the difference that they were already
growing strong as live performers during their first 2 tours.

(and later on, the future success of Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis and to a lesser extent Jesse Johnson) that kept them from getting "exposed" all that time ago. They generally keep kayfabe for the most part when in interviews, etc.

But I think the main reason we haven't seen a full new project from them in years is besides the scheduling issues (Jesse is still recording obviously), there's the purple elephant in the room, holding all the cards.

I really would have loved to hear the original band, let loose in '84 or '85 or so, with Jimmy, Terry, and Jesse being the chief producers. Their collective output always makes a smart mark like me wonder "what if?"

on another note, I don't care what the ASCAP rolls say, Jesse wrote "Jungle Love" for Ice Cream Castle (and that is him playing on the studio record). Prince might have rearranged it and played the keys, Morris may have done the lyrics, but the reason Jesse continues to do that live aside from other joints he could do, is because he wrote it. It sounds like his work (look @ "Everybody Dance" by Ta Mara and the Seen among other songs he wrote). He got strong-armed out of those credits...

...how a Time album would sound around that 1984-1985 era, including Jesse's productional input.
It's easy for me to imagine if Morris sang the lead on "Be Your Man". Man, yeah lol, wishful thinking...
that "what if" could be something indeed. And on point with Jesse's credits.

As for their latest activities. I think it's officially stated by Jimmy Jam that they recently worked on new recording-sessions.
The delay or hold-up might be the use of their name, although they could use "The Time" for their Vegas-shows with the
original line-up. The other usual brand is "Morris Day & The Time" for the shows without Jesse, Jam & Lewis. It might
have to do with the rights/future masters of the first 3 Time-albums which Prince will receive in a couple of years.
I don't know, just hope they will get their project together somehow.




>(and later on, the future success of Jimmy Jam and Terry
>Lewis and to a lesser extent Jesse Johnson) that kept them
>from getting "exposed" all that time ago. They generally keep
>kayfabe for the most part when in interviews, etc.
>
>But I think the main reason we haven't seen a full new project
>from them in years is besides the scheduling issues (Jesse is
>still recording obviously), there's the purple elephant in the
>room, holding all the cards.
>
>I really would have loved to hear the original band, let loose
>in '84 or '85 or so, with Jimmy, Terry, and Jesse being the
>chief producers. Their collective output always makes a smart
>mark like me wonder "what if?"
>
>on another note, I don't care what the ASCAP rolls say, Jesse
>wrote "Jungle Love" for Ice Cream Castle (and that is him
>playing on the studio record). Prince might have rearranged it
>and played the keys, Morris may have done the lyrics, but the
>reason Jesse continues to do that live aside from other joints
>he could do, is because he wrote it. It sounds like his work
>(look @ "Everybody Dance" by Ta Mara and the Seen among other
>songs he wrote). He got strong-armed out of those credits...

>
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OH shit, so you're the one who posted that article in here? lol

Somebody(BBoy87) forwarded it to me and I posted it in the org. You pissed off the Prince worshippers with that piece

Because it was more about those trying to emulate Prince than Prince himself
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>Because it was more about those trying to emulate Prince than
>Prince himself

but I've always thought the same.

the only one who I thought was actually any good at doing that (in that era) besides Prince, but of course, wouldn't be the same kind of influence was O'Bryan. That's largely because he was deeply R&B and did not move to crossover (not that he would).

Well, there was TTD, but I don't consider him trying to emulate Prince, that was just a talent that was out at the right time...

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But notice every reason comes down to something other than making quality music.

But then the big question becomes why do white folks seem immune to this?
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Black artists have to scrape for everything they get...whereas white artists are afforded certain things as a given....

not to mention, alot of white acts have some $$$ somewhere...most likely from their family/trust funds/investor, etc...


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that can support new bands.

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When you cats wonder why I take hip hop to task the way I do at time it's because of this exact thing. White folks never replaced their musicians.
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or at least allowed it to create the illusion real music was being made
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>or at least allowed it to create the illusion real music was
>being made



people blame Hip-Hop for a lot of shit, but THIS time it ain't Hip-Hop's fault.

The technology was already there.

At it's BASE element, Hip-Hop is ( was and will ALWAYS be) Two turntables, a mixer, and a microphone. DJ's used to backspin records to make the music ( Breaks, etc).

But THEN somebody realized you could loop those beats through a sampler and then program a drum machine to give it some bottom.


The sampler and the drum machine were invented for "real" musicians, not Hip-Hop artists. The earliest drum machines pre-date Hip-Hop by 10 or 20 years. And the Sampler was made to sample real instruments. Why? in case you didn't have a piano. You could sample middle C on a real piano, and lay it out on a Keyboard sampler. Voila. Now you have a piano.

Hip-Hop guys just figured out how to use it to loop shit.

and what was the purpose of BOTH? To enable people without a band , to play live. No Drummer? Plug in that good Linn LM1. We Need a Guitar player? Sample a Satriani hit, and run it through that Casio FZ1

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Isn't Daft Punk headlining Coachella? Or was that a few years ago?

Either way, they, Tiesto, and other electronic acts/DJs are pulling in serious crowds.

Some people feel like pop/top 40 is primarily "computerized beat" music these days. I don't know how many rock bands are on the Billboard top 200 right now.

Couldn't this be an example of whites beginning to devalue or replace musicians? Or is it just a phase?

>Couldn't this be an example of whites beginning to devalue or
>replace musicians? Or is it just a phase?

But there are still dozens of viable white bands having enough success to keep me from saying it's sure to go that rout.... but is it possible whites will be in the same boat in 10 years, sure.
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You might have white electronic acts headlining Coachella or grabbing headlines but the difference is Daft Punk and other electronic groups don't replace anything, they just add on. There are several different scenes and genres of music that Whites are "allowed" to play so Daft Punk can co-exist with Kings Of Leon, The White Stripes & The Jonas Brothers without any of them canceling each other out. White folks don't have to choose between supporting electronic based music or band based music. They can have them both.

You have a good point about white acts being allowed greater latitude as far as what is acceptable.

But at the same time, dance music is influencing things on a greater mainstream scale than since at least the early 90s. With culture becoming more electronic-based, I do wonder if we are seeing the early stages of a shift. It may take longer for the effects to be seen in "white culture" compared to blacks, but it's always been like that in the US.

Is there any proof that these video games are encouraging people to play guitars in real life?

>You have a good point about white acts being allowed greater
>latitude as far as what is acceptable.
>
>But at the same time, dance music is influencing things on a
>greater mainstream scale than since at least the early 90s.
>With culture becoming more electronic-based, I do wonder if we
>are seeing the early stages of a shift. It may take longer
>for the effects to be seen in "white culture" compared to
>blacks, but it's always been like that in the US.

in that world mainly because I can't ever recall anytime in post rock n roll american history when the concept of the band has been completely phased out. You will see styles, fads and trends come and go or add on to what's already there (Punk, Nu Metal, Grunge, etc) but you have so many different scenes and genres that the concept of a band or live musicians has never been become an anomaly. Funk bands with all Black musicians are like dinosaurs. Self contained R&B bands? Pretty much extinct. It's a shock to see even a majority black band like TV On The Radio or Robert Randolph and the family band.
>
>Is there any proof that these video games are encouraging
>people to play guitars in real life?

I haven't seen any statistics either way but it's kind of hard to quantify. Honestly I really don't think it matters because a large portion of the audience who buys guitar hero or rock band probably already owns a guitar or are at least exposed to real guitars anyway.

>When you cats wonder why I take hip hop to task the way I do
>at time it's because of this exact thing. White folks never
>replaced their musicians.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnb3WQEUDSg

POEM-CEES
KOKAYI/CAESARZ
SPP WAXWORKS (DC)

THAYLOBLEU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=701fChgN9H4

that all cost $$$...NONE of it is free

guitars, basses, keyboards, drums, percussion, amps, mics, cables, road cases, guitar/mic/keyboard stands, strings, straps, etc AND somn to carry all that shit in....

it all costs a pretty penny...just for shits and giggles, go to Guitar Center and price out all the things you need for a band to do a show...total it up.

so from a cost perspective:
an MPC, midi controller, and some software<<<<<<<<<<band gear

or

DJ setup<<<<<<<<band gear

so these surburban kids with a lil chage has an advantage over a group of kids from the hood...

the difference btwn then and now is that Black bands could make some money playing live or backing up a touring singer...or playing PARTIES(what a thang of the past)....and your old man/uncle/pastor might have a guitar to lend or give you because more people played in those days...and cats didnt mind sharing gear on a gig sometimes...now?, its just you and Guitar Center, baby...Im not sure what the cost of gear was like then vs. now, but somn tells me it was more reasonable then....



*******
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http://www.guitarcenter.com/Yamaha-MOTIF-XS8-Music-Production-Synthesizer-Workstation-Keyboard-104221585-i1172640.gc

The Motif is a professional keyboard with all the sounds you need(piano, Rhodes, organ, Wurlitzer, synths, etc(sound real as HAYELL)...if you see Stevie these days, thats what he's playing....

this is before your amp, stand, hard case, cables, etc...

so even a pair of NEW NEW Jordans for you, yr girl, the baby, an Xbox and two games <<<<<<<<<<<<< Yamaha Motif

I feel you,tho...Kramers will find money for thangs they want like a car with rims....the disconnect is once you get that Motif...you gotta learn to play it--and that takes a while...then once you get decent, where you gon play?

look at the cash we've expended so far on just ONE member of the band...

>
>I feel you,tho...Kramers will find money for thangs they want
>like a car with rims....the disconnect is once you get that
>Motif...you gotta learn to play it--and that takes a
>while...then once you get decent, where you gon play?
>
>look at the cash we've expended so far on just ONE member of
>the band...


Yep. Good luck finding a kid with his own Drums. Or better YET, a kid with his own drums and Saturdays free.

or better yet, a kid with his own drums, Saturdays free who can actually PLAY.

And then it's on to the Guitar player, Bass Player, etc.

And we KNOW the drama that goes into getting a lead singer to cooperate.


Sidepost: the kid down the alley from me who plays drums is getting better. He's gone from "Jeez you suck" to just plain "terrible". Good for him.

______________



http://www.windimoto.com


http://ten2one.wordpress.com/ <-FEB

http://wallpapershi.net/wallpapers/2012/01/boba-fett-star-wars-star-wars-boba-fett-movie-anime-1080x1920.jpg

>look at the cash we've expended so far on just ONE member of
>the band...

Chick Corea was using it as well when I saw RTF play live. It's the go-to keyboard for a lot of known players...

buying shit won't make you good at it.


Why do you think Pawn Shops always got Turntables and MPC's?

Because cats save up their Jordan money to get this shit, and then realize how much work goes into learning how to use the shit.


And I don't know about the learning curve for Hip-Hop beatmaking, but being a good DJ takes YEARS.


so that's another part of it, You can't just buy the shit and be up to speed.

______________



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http://ten2one.wordpress.com/ <-FEB

http://wallpapershi.net/wallpapers/2012/01/boba-fett-star-wars-star-wars-boba-fett-movie-anime-1080x1920.jpg

I think black people have innovated in music so many times because we are always trying to create or jump on "the next shit."

I believe that is one reason black music is not taken as seriously as it should be, we don't sit in one style long enough to establish a canon, if you will.

Rock may incorporate new elements but there is a baseline standard that has not deviated all that much since the 60s.

Add the economic incentives previously mentioned (because I do think black people are more likely to get into music as a Career than white people who may have regular jobs, family resources, and/or education to fall back on) and that is why it seems no black groups have emerged since the Roots/Mint Condition/TTT.

>Rock may incorporate new elements but there is a baseline
>standard that has not deviated all that much since the 60s.

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>I believe that is one reason black music is not taken as
>seriously as it should be, we don't sit in one style long
>enough to establish a canon, if you will.

Especially now.... I'd argue that we're in a cycle of recycling styles at this point.
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The presence of commercial old school radio shows there is a canon. I should not have used that phrasing.

I suppose I'm questioning whether people are really trying to carry on that tradition. I see it as fas as solo acts, but again, not so much with groups.

JayQuan : "...Looking at the Cardiac Arrest lp, it says it was arranged by you.
Did you have a big hand in putting things together in Cameo ?..."

Gregory Johnson : "...Yeah, that was always my thing – but it was very hard to fight for credits.
Arranging everything was my responsibility, and I did it – but I had to ask to be credited..."

Gregory Johnson : "...There was a lot of stuff goin’ on internally with Cameo man. Like I said earlier I had to really fight for credits,
and a lot of people were contributing and not being credited. It bred dissension in the group over time.
That’s why Cameo is like 2 people now. People weren’t getting credit for writing songs – that whole thing..."


http://thafoundation.com/cameo.html?ref=nf



>And our society is all about the individual, you aren't likely
>to put a group of talented people together (especially in
>something as selfish/ego-driven as music)and have them willing
>to let everyone shine in their own way.

...a child is born with no state of mind, blind to the ways of mankind, god is smilin' on you and frownin' too, because only god knows what you gonna do...©melle mel

  

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...WITH CLASS.

i'm not holding my breath though. i think we're too far gone.

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The best you can hope for is some LSG type shit
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>The best you can hope for is some LSG type shit


^ THAT made me throw up in my mouth.

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since I like all three artists individually

like, everybody who sings wants the spotlight
but not enough to share with they homeboys
niggas wanna be the lead vocal
i don't know if today's climate could
support a 112 or boyz 2 men anymore
niggas seem to selfish

...a child is born with no state of mind, blind to the ways of mankind, god is smilin' on you and frownin' too, because only god knows what you gonna do...©melle mel

  

>i don't know if today's climate could
>support a 112 or boyz 2 men anymore
>niggas seem to selfish
>


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regardless of one man bands or not, the bottom line is that lead acts want to get there melvoin riley on.

i mean it works for Min Condition because even though Stokley is talented he just would never cut it as a Solo Artist IMO.

however most lead vocalist or leaers of groups are geared to get there Michael on.

no real need to go back because it just ain't happening like that no more.

if a band don't bring no hits or jump off ASAP then these labels ain't gonna put no bank in them.

pressure would be times 3.Prince didn't ruin it, actually Stevie Wonder did because once his Synth sound dominated things and him as a songwriter then you had other acts incorperating that into there thing.

Prince sold more of the Image and the one man attitude. can't say he did anything more to take away the bands than Steive because Bands were still going strong when Prince came on the scene. I mean Cameo counted well into the 80's, Bar Kays,Earth,wind and Fire,


the Prince effect made label heads see it being cheaper to use technilogy. Prince didn't play everything on record,however he was very talented and he had the image and it was marketed to promote a new era of R&B Males. Prince,Rick,Michael,Lionel,Babyface,


but anyway the Group thing you gotta have a hit out of the door. if we were going by how Earth,wind and Fire,the Commodores, and some other bands who started out without a big hit they wouldn't make it today.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

I mean there is absolutely no downside for the consumer ... so I don't quite understand this stance *shrugs*

And what you said right here kinda makes my point

"can't say he did anything more to take away the bands than Steive because Bands were still going strong when Prince came on the scene"

Exactly... and 5 years later they were either being scaled down or eliminated altogether. What happened during those years? Prince blew up and the technology became more affordable. So not really sure what point you're trying to make here.
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>I mean there is absolutely no downside for the consumer ...
>so I don't quite understand this stance *shrugs*
>
>And what you said right here kinda makes my point
>
>"can't say he did anything more to take away the bands than
>Steive because Bands were still going strong when Prince came
>on the scene"
>
>Exactly... and 5 years later they were either being scaled
>down or eliminated altogether. What happened during those
>years? Prince blew up and the technology became more
>affordable. So not really sure what point you're trying to
>make here.
>_________________________________
>Reunion Radio Podcasts
>Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance
>
>http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/
>
>Latest episode- "Vanilla Child" R.I.P. Teena Marie



i'm about songs and growth and we saw bands grow leaps and bounds. studio,live and get those 2-3 so-so albums out of the way. I mean Prince didn't get his thang going really to dirty mind and didn't have his sound until 1999, i mean 5 albums before he really got it together. do you really think a Modern day Record label gonna invest and wait for said group to take the time it took earth,wind and fire.

i mean it wasn't until Charles stephney got in on board and remember from the days there were the salty peppers it took them about 4 albums before they got rolling.

we are a fast food instant minute level you gotta have the song and then you gotta hit and if it don't hit then you are thrown to the discount bin.

the downside to the consumer is that we lose an act if the said act gets good to great material and blows up call it the Michael Jackson syndrome, because if you loved the Destiny,Triumph and Live era of the Jacksons and had to watch MJ blow up crazy solo and it could be argued that MJ's level of success killed off Groups as well, because if you had a destiny and triumph and went platinum behind that what is the problem right?

but that took a wide turn right.

i mean New Jack swing came in groups and then you had acts solo blow up.

meaning that everytime a group is happening you just had to deal with a bigger solo act. it has happen with Black Music since the 70's onto the 90's and I think the labels said we gotta leave it alone.

we either have a group and try to have that Michael or we just leave that concept alone.

i loved Groups, however paying the dues and watching them like how we did ain't ever gonna happen and it is sad.

it's like the NBA player from High School who blows up in the NBA. the Moses Malone argument to the Kobe Bryant Argument and so much just changed and it means a whole different beat and bounce now than back in the day.

I love your sentiments and what you getting at, however can't go back because the rules is so different.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills