http://youtu.be/fUBcmTnuyIQ

At what point in our lifetime could you go out and find two performers at this level without a deal?

Seriously who's fucking with either one of them vocally right now?

And they wonder why they can't sell music today *smh*

_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Another 70's Show

the labels are more relevant than ever because mainstream media outlets that used to give independent or underground acts/songs playtime amongst the big hits, don't exist any more.

hence, relegating anything NOT on a major label of some kind to simply staying on youtube - forever, regardless of how good it might be.

The only problem is things get lost due to the sheer number of things posted.

I disagree majors hold more power than they used to. There's a model out there now for artist to make a living going around them and earning their bread on tour. Still I can't help think both parties would be better off if they were together... It would have been unheard of back in the day to have talent like this unsigned. The minute these A&R guys forgot talent is a major component in selling records the industry was doomed.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Another 70's Show

Radio is all push. You might not like the song the 1st time we play, but by the 567th you will like it.

Youtube, even if someone sends me a link, I listen maybe through half a verse - and then never ever have to hear that song again.

Arguably, if you have youtube fans, ppl that repeatedly play your stuff because they want to hear it - that's prolly a better quality fan than one who's been programmed to hear it....but I don't even know if we can measure that.

one
k. orr

which sometimes means hearing a song i also like only once ever

whereas in the days of music television, even mediocre videos came on enough times to win me over, just like songs do on the radio, only as kelving said, less independent music seems to make it to rotation due to the stranglehold the majors have

They have grown away from being force feed by old media... Now it's all about Youtube not MTV, Ipods not FM radio, Netflicks and torrents not Network TV & video rentals.

I don't know one person around my daughter's age that listens to over the air radio.... not one.

Things have changed dramatically in just the last 2 years... I'm not sure some of you understand the way teenagers and young 20-somethings operate.

And just to be clear.... when I say the majors are irrelevant I'm talking about as a main source of finding quality music. It used to be not being on a major meant you were a sub par or unpolished act.... now it's almost the other way around.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Another 70's Show

>They have grown away from being force feed by old media...

no they haven't.
maybe they don't have to tune in to bet as much as you used to before youtube to know what the corporations are telling you is "hot".
but that is still the source of their tastes.

>I don't know one person around my daughter's age that listens
>to over the air radio.... not one.

so then you are suggesting because you don't know the source of their tastes, they are "digging" on youtube themselves?
because i don't buy that.
whatever is popular in the real world is what spurs youtube hits.
teenagers always have been and always will be easily succumb to influence because they are not fully autonomous adults with critical minds who know what they like.

>Things have changed dramatically in just the last 2 years...

no they haven't.

>I'm not sure some of you understand the way teenagers and
>young 20-somethings operate.

i think it's a lot more subject to corporate influence than even as little as 15 years ago.
...and the material they are being fed (regardless of what medium they consume it from) is hundreds of times more flimsy.
much like comparing the 90s -> 70s.

>And just to be clear.... when I say the majors are irrelevant
>I'm talking about as a main source of finding quality music.

i'm sure people who post links to other peoples free content and then get checks for their website's advertisement money might cosign you 100%.

and songs like this don't have 9 million views because they just don't happen to be playing on VH1 morning brew at the time (the first time I heard the song, until I noticed the band name and remembered I found their CD in her room two years ago when it first came out)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzlNFcT2aOE

That's all new generation "what there's a radio? I heard this on a tumblr stumble and then heard it 30 more times cause I didn't want to put the CD in or download it illegally or pay for it on iTunes" hustle

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

and the inclusion of a VEVO acct is obvious evidence of some label/corporation/"person in power" profiteering from the group.

and, because those kids honestly party as hard as the college kids i know, they've been to a lot of parties i've been to

whether it's my sister or that girl and her friends, when they get to DJ, they go to youtube

they play a song

and then the click something on the related videos, and keep going like that

if that's a corporate influence, fine

but the point is, they aren't doing it with the radio

they aren't being forced into anything as directly as we are. they pick songs off titles and screen caps.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

>they aren't being forced into anything as directly as we are.
>they pick songs off titles and screen caps.

i'm not buying it and the billboard hot 100 supports my stance.

that is, unless you consider, viral hits turned IRL hits like "friday" or "watch me crank my soulja boy" indicative of some newfound prowess possessed by today's teenagers to synthesize "great music" from the internet independently and free from corporate influence.

>and the inclusion of a VEVO acct is obvious evidence of some
>label/corporation/"person in power" profiteering from the
>group.

Talent on a major is a win win.... but the simple fact these labels know they need a youtube presence proves my point.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Another 70's Show

>
>Things have changed dramatically in just the last 2 years...
>I'm not sure some of you understand the way teenagers and
>young 20-somethings operate.

<--- Big Baller World Order

>And just to be clear.... when I say the majors are irrelevant
>I'm talking about as a main source of finding quality music.
>It used to be not being on a major meant you were a sub par or
>unpolished act.... now it's almost the other way around.

The second I got serious about music....87? 89? 93? there was always good stuff on independent labels.

one
k. orr

Actually, in rock, stuff on independent labels have been superior to mainstrea-stuff since the late 70's. Meanwhile, entire genres like Hip-Hop, house and techno pretty much came out of indie-labels who were later picked up by majors; I don't see it as anything new really. It might be partly new in R&B though which has been quite corporate since the 60's I think even if there's a long tradition of indie-labels putting out quality stuff there too...

i just don't see myself watching a video on youtube over and over. it's inconvenient, and there's too much other stuff to check out. in the days of less options, when i was also younger and not working, i could just veg out and watch a block of videos on a comfortable couch, and there seemed to be a good variety back then, too. i use the internet to discover music, and i'll check out pretty much any video people recommend, but i'll probably never use youtube the way kids do.


>They have grown away from being force feed by old media...
>Now it's all about Youtube not MTV, Ipods not FM radio,
>Netflicks and torrents not Network TV & video rentals.
>
>I don't know one person around my daughter's age that listens
>to over the air radio.... not one.
>
>Things have changed dramatically in just the last 2 years...
>I'm not sure some of you understand the way teenagers and
>young 20-somethings operate.

i came up in the era that was the bridge to what you're describing and can somewhat relate to what you're saying. however, i've always had a soft spot for radio for various reasons, and since i still have one in my car, kitchen, and bedroom, it's easy for me to tune in for a few minutes a few times a day, usually checking out different formats because i get bored by just one. i definitely recognize radio as being irrelevant to most people my age and younger, but i still listen and actually still discover good music on it, although that is including community radio.



>And just to be clear.... when I say the majors are irrelevant
>I'm talking about as a main source of finding quality music.

more and more true every year


>It used to be not being on a major meant you were a sub par or
>unpolished act....

maybe in pop and r&b but not some other genres


>now it's almost the other way around.

music on a major feels very contrived and is very disappointing for those of us who remember the great music majors used to release and the artists that built these labels

>i just don't see myself watching a video on youtube over and
>over. it's inconvenient, and there's too much other stuff to
>check out. in the days of less options, when i was also
>younger and not working, i could just veg out and watch a
>block of videos on a comfortable couch, and there seemed to be
>a good variety back then, too. i use the internet to discover
>music, and i'll check out pretty much any video people
>recommend, but i'll probably never use youtube the way kids
>do.

or any other youtube grabber.... I burn my own music dvds with the stuff I download off youtube.


>i came up in the era that was the bridge to what you're
>describing and can somewhat relate to what you're saying.
>however, i've always had a soft spot for radio for various
>reasons, and since i still have one in my car, kitchen, and
>bedroom, it's easy for me to tune in for a few minutes a few
>times a day, usually checking out different formats because i
>get bored by just one. i definitely recognize radio as being
>irrelevant to most people my age and younger, but i still
>listen and actually still discover good music on it, although
>that is including community radio.

I still listen to radio but not over the air. Once I discovered the tuneinradio app for my phone I got back into playing the radio in my car... it just happens to be radio from Europe though.


>>It used to be not being on a major meant you were a sub par
>or
>>unpolished act....
>
>maybe in pop and r&b but not some other genres

Yeah that's my focus... other than hip hop back in the day I don't remember us playing anything that wasn't on a major.



_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Another 70's Show

>They have grown away from being force feed by old media...

Now they're being force fed by their social network friends who send them links, and then listen to the onsite recommendations.

It's slightly more organic, but it's most definitely being manipulated.

>Things have changed dramatically in just the last 2 years...
>I'm not sure some of you understand the way teenagers and
>young 20-somethings operate.

I get it, I don't think you understand the myriad attempts to manipulate them.

it's been that long.

YouTube is the main source.
and i watch and re-watch many many times.
the amount of views on some vids is fucking ridiculous. i don't understand how it can't be an important component these days.

i know this might get scoffed at but: the Turquoise Jeep movement is a great example of a YouTube-centric success story (what started out as YouTube-only music vids has, over the last couple years, turned into full national tours with international gigs to come, which also led to sales of the merch and of a full album of songs late last yr now on sale at all the major online outlets).

i think the power is there, just depends on how much of an online presence you have, if u stay updated and in touch with the fanbase, if the material is DOPE, then the people are there to support it via views and re-posts on blogs n other websites, which (if all goes virally well), should lead to support in the form of live shows and merch n album sales. it's a slower process but still highly effective.

V.

---
http://confessionsofacurlymind.com
https://soundcloud.com/confessionsofacurlymindredux
https://soundcloud.com/generic80sbadguy
https://soundcloud.com/miles_matheson

DROkayplayer™

>the Turquoise Jeep
>movement is a great example of a YouTube-centric success story
>(what started out as YouTube-only music vids has, over the
>last couple years, turned into full national tours with
>international gigs to come, which also led to sales of the
>merch and of a full album of songs late last yr now on sale at
>all the major online outlets).

is it just a coincidence that ALL the songs/acts the internet turns from viral hits into "IRL" hits are awful/kitsche memes that start out as a jokes?

meanwhile, actual acts that are talented yet confined to youtube because they can't get any support from labels/mainstream media outlets toil around with 5,000 views.

how are people going to argue with a straight face that the internet is a better source of "quality music" than major labels when it rewards the worst of the worst and ignores anything actually good?

people like rehdogg have millions of views, while the video the original poster posted as an example of why "major labels are irrelevant" had less than 200 views.

the internet's role and value pertaining to music is constantly being oversold.
sometimes by people who are set to profiteer from it and sometimes by naive fans who buy into this whirlwind of bullshit because it "seems" believable.

>is it just a coincidence that ALL the songs/acts the internet
>turns from viral hits into "IRL" hits are awful/kitsche memes
>that start out as a jokes?

not in this case. what Turquoise Jeep has done is nothin short of high art if u think about it. clearly it's all in jest but they sell it so well cos the videos fit the package, the production is hella tight, there's plenty of memorable lines. they've crossed over a new threshold in the world of parody where the parody itself is as superior as the style of song being parodied, and is a viable musical product. which is why i think i've latched onto em so much. and my important point: the songs WORK. which is why i see em as a legit movement these days that only keeps getting bigger. my reasoning is that if these guys can do it (in a parody format), why can't others (in traditional music artist fashion)? it can't be impossible. and it definitely doesn't hurt to try.

>meanwhile, actual acts that are talented yet confined to
>youtube because they can't get any support from
>labels/mainstream media outlets toil around with 5,000 views.

there are a fair few under-the-radar artists doing more than average with the fans/views/subs. but in terms of the original vid, Rahsaan Patterson is the most visible on twitter. i'm friends with the dude on FB too but he rocks twitter may more. and as far as i can tell, he has no personal official YouTube channel (only that VeVo shyte, and that's not his doing). maybe if he got involved with the online PR to help spread the love via YouTube it could bump up his views and his sales? i dunno, i may be talking out my ass but it doesn't sound SO far-fetched to me. and i wouldn't describe being on YouTube as a "confinement", considering YouTube is...oh i dunno, let's say "global"?

>how are people going to argue with a straight face that the
>internet is a better source of "quality music" than major
>labels when it rewards the worst of the worst and ignores
>anything actually good?

i don't think that was ever the point i was arguing. OldPro mentioned it, but i'm only talking about YouTube being a valid avenue for artists to take. and i know Turquoise Jeep is a seemingly weird example to use, but beyond the ironic hipster love they could potentially get, people actually LOVE their music. i'm sure if other groups or artists had good enough songs, a personality and just a touch of talent they could amass a decent enough following & repeat the feat & turn it all into live shows & merch & other ways of makin loot *shrugs*

>people like rehdogg have millions of views, while the video
>the original poster posted as an example of why "major labels
>are irrelevant" had less than 200 views.

WELCOME TO THE INTERNET lol. where more ppl prefer to watch the random unhinged shit. that's ALWAYS gonna get more views (that and kitteh vids, u can add them to the list of things stealing views from the quality music). i think YouTube covers a wide net of things, music gets its expected amount of share (the pop shit getting the most views, the below the radar stuff getting its own share). in the end maybe it's about online marketing and herding ppl to your specific video or channel. either way i repeat, havin a heavy YouTube presence is only gonna help a mofo out (yes u get heaps of views when u suck too, but how would u know it sucked if u didn't watch the shit in the first place? eg. REBECCA FUCKING BLACK. "Friday" got sumthn like 100million views and a shitload of negative comments and endless parodies, to the point where her ppl REMOVED the video from YouTube lol. so ye, it got mad views, but it also got publicly bodyslammed and shat on. so it's not all bad).

as for others like Rehdogg and Tay Zonday, they're gonna get more views cos they're way more fucking interesting to watch/listen to than your favourite artists lol. should be its own topic or somethin, it's just the fascination factor at work i guess. and everyone's got their own motivations for adding their view to the tally, for supporting it (genuinely or ironically), or denouncing it (very seriously). crying foul over the discrepancy in views b/w this kinda shit and the quality shit, has to be put down to natural human curiosity for the 'weird'. i don't think it's an indictment on the lack of support from the Internet for talented artists. but u can't really get that support unless u put urself out there.

>the internet's role and value pertaining to music is
>constantly being oversold.
>sometimes by people who are set to profiteer from it and
>sometimes by naive fans who buy into this whirlwind of
>bullshit because it "seems" believable.

i dunno. maybe it's just personal perception, but i probly wouldn't have anything much to say bout it were it not for following this T Jeep phenomena from jump. & i don't think it's naive to imagine viable alternatives to 'making it' :/

V.

---
http://confessionsofacurlymind.com
https://soundcloud.com/confessionsofacurlymindredux
https://soundcloud.com/generic80sbadguy
https://soundcloud.com/miles_matheson

DROkayplayer™

>they've crossed over a new threshold in the world of parody
>where the parody itself is as superior as the style of song
>being parodied, and is a viable musical product.

If they were too old, too fat, too uncharismatic, or just lacking the right image... the right X factor.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

You're flat out mistaken if you think an artist of Rah's caliber was out there unsigned.... thing is I'm not sure he even wants to be on a major at this point.


_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Another 70's Show

And like Luke Cage pointed out, both of them had had deals before and couldn't sell records.

it would be different if it were a situation where Rah and Sha were two undiscovered talents who had been toiling in obscurity for years while the major remained oblivious... but both of them had their chance.

I mean, this ain't too much different than, say, The Four Tops or The Honey Cone being without deals at the end of the 1980s. Sure, they're still talented as hell... but their moment's passed.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

Rah is 37

And both were in their early 30s when they left their labels

So no man that argument don't work

Stop making excuses for short sighted A&R assholes

They fucked up.... and they keep fucking up. It's not just file sharing that is hurting sales.... it's cat's valuing the wrong things when they decide who does and doesn't get a deal.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Another 70's Show

Yeah, 37 and 38 may not be old in real life, but I put it in quotes because in industry years... they old.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

the one I posted years ago showing all the 40+ acts that charted in the 70s and 80s?

And we aren't even talking 40s here but late 30s. You got a gang of mid to late 30s artists going right now.

Try to find what ever answer you may... but the correct one still is they fucked up
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Another 70's Show

How many of the artists on your list (which I don't recall seeing before) are acts that had enjoyed a more or less uninterrupted stream of success probably since their 20s? Or at least had been earlier established in the industry?

And how many of them were "new" acts that achieved their FIRST success post-40?

If you're already established in the industry, you're probably not gonna get kicked out on your 36th birthday.

But if you're somebody struggling to gain a foothold... by the time you're in your mid-to-late 30s, if you haven't gotten it yet, chances become slimmer and slimmer that you ever will.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

So that's not unprecedented. But again that's not the point of this post... these artist shouldn't have been 37-38 and without deals in the first place.

Thing is I'm not even mad about it... the music is still there and is appreciated in places other than the US. I just think theses majors fucked themselves.... and it's only going to get worse.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Another 70's Show

>But again that's not the point
>of this post... these artist shouldn't have been 37-38 and
>without deals in the first place.

LOL

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

it's damn sure not a lack of talent

i know you play the contrarian role well but defending the people that drove the music industry off a cliff just makes no sense to me. You're talking like they are above doing anything wrong .... when their track record shows they have hardly done anything right.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Another 70's Show

My only point is that artists such as Rah and Sha being without a deal at this point in their careers is not exactly some kind of new and shocking phenomenon.

It's always been this way. Every artist (if they're lucky) has a period when they're "hot." For some, that period is very short... others are able to prolong it for years, even decades.

But when you're not hot no more, you don't have a deal.

And neither Rahsaan Patterson nor Shanice WIlson has been hot in a very, very long time.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

is inferior to what's going on in the indie and club scene. I can see if your rosters were stocked with talent and you had to make some tough decisions.... but that's not the case.

You had people that didn't understand or care about black music making decisions that they really weren't qualified to make. They made this bed and now they have to lay in it. Just saying all their problems aren't due to file sharing.

_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Another 70's Show