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Subject: "hiphop lyricsm >>>>>>> all other genres lyrics" This topic is locked.
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Arkitech
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7082 posts
Thu Aug-20-09 10:09 PM

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"hiphop lyricsm >>>>>>> all other genres lyrics"


  

          

Before you start protesting, the hiphop lyricism I'm referencing would be along the lines of Com, Mos, Black, etc..

I can't think of any other genre besides hiphop (except poetry and spoken word) where lyricism involves more than just a message or imagery. Hiphop is really the only music where vocal artists usually have to employ not only imagery and emotion, but also a highly developed style of cadence, wordplay and flow in every song. You might find a rock or soul artist who employs all of those elements into a song every once in awhile, but you won't find it on an entire album. Am I wrong?-

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
i don't know about all this >>>>>> business
Aug 20th 2009
1
i don't know about all this >>>>>> business
Aug 21st 2009
4
I don't know about that at all.
Aug 20th 2009
2
idk about *all* genres
Aug 21st 2009
3
I'd like to take this oppurtunity to, again, mock modern rock songwriter...
Aug 21st 2009
75
^^^^^
Apr 27th 2010
144
Re: Kurt cobain
Aug 22nd 2009
112
      that song is about something?
Sep 12th 2009
136
           ^^^^^
Apr 27th 2010
143
yes. hiphop is the most elaborate narrative in music
Aug 21st 2009
5
either you're being sarcastic or you don't listen to anything else...
Aug 21st 2009
8
      but lets be real disco, they ain't putting it down like hip hop cats
Aug 21st 2009
11
      go listen to some Johnny Cash.
Aug 21st 2009
15
      ok so they are tied for first? n/m.
Aug 21st 2009
22
you're completely right.
Aug 21st 2009
6
had you thrown the word "Some" in there somewhere,
Aug 21st 2009
7
he pretty much said that in the body of the post
Aug 21st 2009
9
      he ALSO said "you won't find it in an entire album"
Aug 21st 2009
10
I dont know, 60's Motown has some great lyrics
Aug 21st 2009
12
Don't make a blanket statement If you then have to qualify it...
Aug 21st 2009
13
I would put KRS Rakim Grap Nas Black thought against any .
Aug 21st 2009
14
lets not get overzealous here.
Aug 21st 2009
19
nah, man...just...naw.
Aug 21st 2009
20
more hip-hop "isn't good enough" hate
Aug 21st 2009
38
      no hate, just logic...
Aug 21st 2009
47
           why?
Aug 21st 2009
50
                because that's what makes it "the greatest"....
Aug 21st 2009
54
                     hip-hop never conformed to those rules, i say fuck em...
Aug 21st 2009
57
                          that proves it. You ain't talkin about shit...
Aug 21st 2009
60
                               so you don't understand at all where i'm coming from?
Aug 21st 2009
64
                                    I Do. but you keep saying the same shit over and over again...
Aug 21st 2009
68
                                         i'm not good w/ examples...isolated indidents don't impress me...
Aug 21st 2009
71
would you put them against sly?
Aug 21st 2009
23
Yes Only Curtis Mayfield could compete with the top lyricist
Aug 21st 2009
84
      really now....?
Aug 22nd 2009
89
           Damn I forgot Ronald Isley, but dig...This verse right HERE???
Aug 22nd 2009
90
                *lol* when you consider that hip hop borrows from other genres
Aug 22nd 2009
108
                     Hip Hop borrows from its foremothers and fathers and has
Aug 22nd 2009
110
                          the difference is, hip-hop also disses those it borrows from
Aug 23rd 2009
115
                               Are we talking about the lyrics or the melodies the post ain't
Aug 24th 2009
123
Personally I think Love's Gonna Getcha is Lyricism at its FINEST
Aug 22nd 2009
87
That was the first song that came to mind
Aug 22nd 2009
96
anybody else think he meant 'Grap Luva' ?
Aug 22nd 2009
109
^^^what HE Said^^^
Aug 21st 2009
17
It's concise vs. verbose
Aug 21st 2009
16
i think it's more a case of the core structure of hip-hop
Aug 21st 2009
18
now THIS I can ride with.
Aug 21st 2009
21
*smh* talk about splitting hairs
Aug 21st 2009
39
co-sign. very well put
Aug 21st 2009
30
only if we're talking the best from all genres...
Aug 21st 2009
24
the deniers are tripping, no other musical form has the potential...
Aug 21st 2009
25
you can't base an argument like this on "potential".
Aug 21st 2009
26
what musical form has brought the breadth and depth of issues...
Aug 21st 2009
28
      ummm...SOUL MUSIC?
Aug 21st 2009
31
           RE: ummm...SOUL MUSIC?
Aug 21st 2009
33
           convinced, maybe...correct...no....
Aug 21st 2009
35
                cmon cutty... you know I didn't mean YOU
Aug 22nd 2009
97
           soul music is mostly love songs w/ the occasional message song...
Aug 21st 2009
34
           name me ONE topic, that wasn't touched on before Hip-Hop.
Aug 21st 2009
37
                oh c'mon, disco...of course the topics have been touched on before...
Aug 21st 2009
42
                you're arguing for the sake of it now...
Aug 21st 2009
45
                you're pulling out a bunch of specific examples, but the post...
Aug 21st 2009
53
                     I'm giving examples...you're coming from the heart.
Aug 21st 2009
58
                         
Aug 21st 2009
73
                Just a listen to What's Going On (the album) discredits every part of th...
Aug 21st 2009
49
                     this right here
Aug 21st 2009
55
                          I think you're overstating the prevelance in Hip-Hop, and understating.....
Aug 21st 2009
56
                          i think your hip-hop memory is short, or you don't really pay attn to ly...
Aug 21st 2009
59
                               And I think you're not nearly as familiar with other genres
Aug 21st 2009
61
                                    And he KEEPS refusing to accept it.
Aug 21st 2009
62
                                    maybe not, i'm sorry, but i'm not your typical "music knowitall"
Aug 21st 2009
66
                                         Hip-Hop doesn't need defending here
Aug 21st 2009
69
                                         but you haven't "Defended" anything...
Aug 21st 2009
70
                                              i feel like i have...if you don't agree, that's cool...
Aug 21st 2009
72
                          RE: this right here
Aug 21st 2009
74
                i'll take the bait. hip-hop has covered lots of ground other genres didn...
Aug 21st 2009
82
                Hell Yeah by Dead Prez...What genre had a pizza man stick up song?
Aug 22nd 2009
94
                dig deeper in yr record collection...
Aug 23rd 2009
117
                87 is a good example.
Aug 22nd 2009
93
           I'd say folk and rock as well
Aug 21st 2009
40
           absolutely.
Aug 21st 2009
48
           it goes beyond social commentary though
Aug 21st 2009
81
                so basically you're sayin "More equals better"?
Aug 24th 2009
126
Verbosity is just as often a hinderance in Hip-Hop as it is a blessing
Aug 21st 2009
29
      ^^^^^^
Aug 21st 2009
32
      i agree, but that doesn't change the basic fact...
Aug 21st 2009
36
      Certainly, more information can be presented
Aug 21st 2009
41
           which is the basic idea behind all of this...ppl just getting mad...
Aug 21st 2009
43
                RE: which is the basic idea behind all of this...ppl just getting mad...
Aug 21st 2009
44
                     post 42, and the other thing is...
Aug 21st 2009
46
                     I disagree
Aug 21st 2009
51
                          you're wasting your time with this guy. man...
Aug 21st 2009
63
                               Yeah, I can see that
Aug 21st 2009
65
                               when did it become passe' to defend hip-hop?
Aug 21st 2009
67
                     thank you.
Aug 21st 2009
52
      well said
Aug 21st 2009
78
agreed, technically speaking.
Aug 21st 2009
27
People need to stop thinking like this.
Aug 21st 2009
76
man thank you. there are different types of lyricism
Aug 21st 2009
77
      RE: man thank you. there are different types of lyricism
Aug 21st 2009
85
      ^^^she's an emcee^^^
Aug 23rd 2009
118
here's where this thread is flawed
Aug 21st 2009
79
i think hip-hop beats electronica in the romance category
Aug 21st 2009
83
wow...three whole genres...yeah, hip-hop's ready to rule alright
Aug 22nd 2009
91
AIR, Zero 7, Portishead, Massive Attack, Thievery Corp.....
Aug 24th 2009
122
      talk strange like bjork
Aug 24th 2009
124
Love and romance searching database...AH...Love and Romance
Aug 22nd 2009
92
      RE: Love and romance searching database...AH...Love and Romance
Aug 22nd 2009
111
Make it brief son, half short, twice strong (c) GZA
Aug 21st 2009
80
nah, cuz many other genres say more with much less words
Aug 22nd 2009
86
All U need 2 silence the critics is a lil ditty from Mos Def. Exhibit A
Aug 22nd 2009
88
Johnny Cash - Don't Go Near the Water
Aug 22nd 2009
95
Wow that's pretty darn good.
Aug 22nd 2009
107
Mos shouted him out too
Aug 24th 2009
121
      thats whatsup
Aug 24th 2009
127
sticking with the water theme - Van Morrison - And It Stoned Me
Aug 22nd 2009
101
this is actually a good example to use against your theory
Aug 22nd 2009
102
      Lol too preachy
Aug 24th 2009
131
Gladys knight on Mr. Welfare> Anything a rapper has spit on the same top...
Aug 22nd 2009
98
this post would be good as a 'show and prove'
Aug 22nd 2009
99
i don't know how i missed all of this
Aug 22nd 2009
100
my whole argument was basically based on potential, i'll cop to that...
Aug 23rd 2009
113
      Potential is nice and all, but what good is it if it's not lived up to?
Jan 15th 2010
139
lol @ people taking this as an opportunity to shit on hip hop though
Aug 22nd 2009
103
not shitting on hip-hop as a whole
Aug 22nd 2009
104
      no. people are in here shitting on it.
Aug 22nd 2009
105
           well yea, I guess i need to speak for myself
Aug 22nd 2009
106
Yeah, I agree
Aug 23rd 2009
114
NOWW the lesson wants to big up SIMPLICITY in lyricism
Aug 23rd 2009
116
^^^doesn't know the difference between
Aug 24th 2009
128
this is a prme example of hiphop fan insecurity....
Aug 23rd 2009
119
Yup.
Sep 12th 2009
135
basically.
Sep 12th 2009
137
the best and the worst due to it's potential
Aug 24th 2009
120
no
Aug 24th 2009
125
i think it's true
Aug 24th 2009
129
no way.
Aug 24th 2009
130
lol fuck no! hahahahah....
Aug 24th 2009
132
RE: lol fuck no! hahahahah....
Aug 24th 2009
133
well i think so
Aug 25th 2009
134
funny, i was listening to libretto as i read this post. still am...
Jan 17th 2010
140
^
Jan 15th 2010
138
What I've been saying for years
Jan 17th 2010
141
RE: hiphop lyricsm >>>>>>> all other genres lyrics
Apr 25th 2010
142

ficus
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Thu Aug-20-09 10:18 PM

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1. "i don't know about all this >>>>>> business"
In response to Reply # 0


          

most other genres have far fewer words to work with to express their ideas with.

the other way to look at this is that hip-hop is hampered by how wordy it is -- it pushes the lyricist toward "overexplaining". whereas plenty of rock/soul/etc songs just give you a taste and your mind is left to fill in the blanks.

two different tools for two different jobs imo.

  

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L.E.S.
Member since Oct 18th 2006
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Fri Aug-21-09 01:48 AM

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4. "i don't know about all this >>>>>> business"
In response to Reply # 1


          

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

























^^^^^^^^^

  

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Midtown Records
Member since Sep 29th 2006
4776 posts
Thu Aug-20-09 10:22 PM

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2. "I don't know about that at all."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

__________

Lamentations 3:26
It is good that a man should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the LORD.

  

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RaFromQueens
Member since Apr 18th 2006
19528 posts
Fri Aug-21-09 12:54 AM

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3. "idk about *all* genres"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but fans of certain rock bands need to check themselves. If you wanna tell me Kurt Cobain was an excellent writer I'm gonna need you to tell me which language you listen in.

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

  

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RaFromQueens
Member since Apr 18th 2006
19528 posts
Fri Aug-21-09 02:55 PM

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75. "I'd like to take this oppurtunity to, again, mock modern rock songwriter..."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

they suck.

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

  

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RaFromQueens
Member since Apr 18th 2006
19528 posts
Tue Apr-27-10 02:47 PM

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144. "^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

nm.

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Sat Aug-22-09 02:59 PM

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112. "Re: Kurt cobain"
In response to Reply # 3


          

some of his lyrics were throw-aways but some were genius.]

Take for instance 'Come as you are' and examine it as a song about a teenager pleading for the return of an absent father whom has been deemed 'the bad guy' by the child's mother:

Come as you are, as you were
As I want you to be.
As a friend, as a friend
as an old enemy.

Take your time, hurry up
The choice is yours, dont be late.
Take a rest as a friend
as an old memory.

Memory...memory...memory.

And I swear that I don't have a gun.


I'm willing to explain further if you don't understand. These lyrics are concise. I will agree with you that alot of his lyrics werent though.

  

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k_orr
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Sat Sep-12-09 12:31 PM

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136. "that song is about something?"
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

*adds to learned something new 2day file*

  

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RaFromQueens
Member since Apr 18th 2006
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Tue Apr-27-10 02:47 PM

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143. "^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

nm.

---
"People that need positivity around them all the time are weak individuals in my book" - @lilduval

  

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realityrap
Member since Sep 21st 2005
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Fri Aug-21-09 03:04 AM

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5. "yes. hiphop is the most elaborate narrative in music "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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disco dj
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8. "either you're being sarcastic or you don't listen to anything else..."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

because Country songs ( at least classic Country ) songs are just as vivid as any Hip-Hop song.


And I'm not even a country fan.


I'll let Lonesome_d break it down.

______________



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TIMP
Member since Dec 26th 2004
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Fri Aug-21-09 08:10 AM

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11. "but lets be real disco, they ain't putting it down like hip hop cats"
In response to Reply # 8


          

they might paint the picture, but (good) hip hop is doing all of that and more

<----holler at a player when you see him in the streets (c)Stuart Scott

www.brucegeetz1.bandcamp.com
http://brucegeetz.blogspot.com/

  

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disco dj
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15. "go listen to some Johnny Cash."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

I get what you're saying.


But I don't even LIKE Country, and I'm telling you, it doesn't get more vivid than a song like "The Devil Went Down to Georgia".



throwing a zillion words in a song doesn't neccessarily make it more descriptive, and on paper, that seems to be a lot of peoples' argument in this post.


______________



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realityrap
Member since Sep 21st 2005
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Fri Aug-21-09 09:18 AM

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22. "ok so they are tied for first? n/m. "
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

  

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V3rb
Member since Jul 20th 2008
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Fri Aug-21-09 04:00 AM

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6. "you're completely right. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but some of these "different" okps might disagree just because.


  

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disco dj
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7. "had you thrown the word "Some" in there somewhere, "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

then you might have something to stand on. But there's NO worse argument than "this thing is better than everything else".


and just to prove your premise wrong, ask yourself this:

"Is 'Bald Headed Hoes' really better than 'Inner City Blues'?"

See?

Now had you said, "some of the lyricism in Hip-Hop is better written than some of the lyrics in just about any other genre", then I'd have to admit you have a point.

( because "Once Upon a Time in The Projects" is without a doubt a better written song than say, "I Want Candy" or "My Sharona")

______________



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Villain
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Fri Aug-21-09 07:42 AM

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9. "he pretty much said that in the body of the post"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

__
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disco dj
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10. "he ALSO said "you won't find it in an entire album""
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

and that simply isn't true.



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zigbfree
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Fri Aug-21-09 08:15 AM

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12. "I dont know, 60's Motown has some great lyrics"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Just look at the stuff that Smokey Robinson was writing. That dude has some of the best written songs of all time.

And when you consider that Mos, Com and others are all heavily influenced by soul music, you gotta give it it's due.

_____________________________
http://bcplanningblog.blogspot.com/
A Blog about Urban Culture and City Planning

  

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TomWaitsInOkkervil
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Fri Aug-21-09 08:21 AM

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13. "Don't make a blanket statement If you then have to qualify it..."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Aug-21-09 08:25 AM by TomWaitsInOkkervil

  

          

...by limiting it to a certain scope of artist. You do that because you know there is a huge amount of downright horrid lyricism in Hip-Hop, just like any genre. If you only limit it to the best lyricists for a lot of other genres also, they stack up just fine against Hip-Hop. I'd put up someone like Bob Dylan or Elvis Costello against any Hip-Hop artist, and someone can probably pick out examples for any genre that employs lyrics extensively.

  

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Musa
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Fri Aug-21-09 08:25 AM

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14. "I would put KRS Rakim Grap Nas Black thought against any ."
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

lyricist from any other genre and win hands down.

Bob Dylan on his best day couldn't mess with the top MCs in Hip Hop.

The best lyricist outside of Hip Hop I can think of is Bob Marley.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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pidgwillot
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Fri Aug-21-09 08:30 AM

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19. "lets not get overzealous here."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          


>Bob Dylan on his best day couldn't mess with the top MCs in
>Hip Hop.

___________________________________________________
Spit so many verses sometimes my jaw twitches
One thing this party could use is more... booze.

  

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disco dj
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Fri Aug-21-09 08:32 AM

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20. "nah, man...just...naw."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

they're good at Hip-Hop, hell, they're GREAT at Hip-Hop. You named the best that ever did it.


But until they write a song that's UNIVERSALLY accepted across ALL genres, like "Wake Up Everybody", I'm not convinced.


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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Fri Aug-21-09 11:56 AM

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38. "more hip-hop "isn't good enough" hate"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          


>But until they write a song that's UNIVERSALLY accepted across
>ALL genres, like "Wake Up Everybody", I'm not convinced.
>

fuck being universally accept across all genres...if a rapper can say more, he can say more...it doesn't matter who accepts it

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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disco dj
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Fri Aug-21-09 12:11 PM

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47. "no hate, just logic..."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

>fuck being universally accept across all genres...if a rapper
>can say more, he can say more...it doesn't matter who accepts
>it


if you're declaring something ">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all other genres" then it HAS to be universally accepted.

______________



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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Fri Aug-21-09 12:12 PM

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50. "why?"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          


>
>if you're declaring something ">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all other
>genres" then it HAS to be universally accepted.
>



________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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disco dj
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54. "because that's what makes it "the greatest"...."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

we've had this argument a zillion times.


in order to BE the best, you have to BEAT the best. There has to be some sort of consensus on what ranks atop ANY chart...




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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Fri Aug-21-09 12:19 PM

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57. "hip-hop never conformed to those rules, i say fuck em..."
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

i judge hip-hop by hip-hop standards, not by "music" standards

sue me

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disco dj
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60. "that proves it. You ain't talkin about shit..."
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

>i judge hip-hop by hip-hop standards, not by "music"
>standards
>
>sue me


The ORIGINAL POST was comparing Hip-Hop to OTHER GENRES, right?

How can you have a comparison and refuse to acknowledge the thing you're comparing it to?


like I said in that True or False post yesterday, Some Hip-Hop fans are the most close-minded people on earth.


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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Fri Aug-21-09 12:25 PM

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64. "so you don't understand at all where i'm coming from?"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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disco dj
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68. "I Do. but you keep saying the same shit over and over again..."
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

I've asked you SEVERAL times to point to an example. You have yet to do so...


You keep parroting the same lines over and over.




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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Fri Aug-21-09 12:34 PM

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71. "i'm not good w/ examples...isolated indidents don't impress me..."
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

i'm thinkiing more "overall" in this particular argument

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whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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jahlove7
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Fri Aug-21-09 09:50 AM

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23. "would you put them against sly?"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

and if so, how do you think they'd fare, considering you have murking dylan already...


don't see it personally, but hey, we all have an opinion, i suppose.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Fri Aug-21-09 11:15 PM

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84. "Yes Only Curtis Mayfield could compete with the top lyricist"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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jahlove7
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89. "really now....?"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

interesting. i don't believe that in the slightest, but hey, it's why we all post, right?

no way in hell any of the aforementioned cats are taking down sly, stevie, ron isley, etc., along with curtis.

and i didn't even delve into johnny cash, and the like.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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M1Z
Member since Aug 30th 2003
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Sat Aug-22-09 01:10 AM

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90. "Damn I forgot Ronald Isley, but dig...This verse right HERE???"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

WILL fuck with ANY of the BIG boys you just mentioned on their BEST days...We can do this ALL day...

I am Posdnous
I be the new generation of slaves
here to make papes to buy a record exec rakes
the pile of revenue I create
But I guess I don't get a cut cuz my rent's a month late
Product of a North Carolina cat
who scratched the back of a pretty woman named Hattie
Who departed life just a little too soon
and didn't see me grab the Plug Tune fame
As we go a little somethin' like this
look ma, no protection
Now I got a daughter named Ayana Monay
And I can play the cowboy to rustle in the dough
so the scenery is healthy where her eyes lay
I am an early bird but the feathers are black
so the apples that I catch are usually all worms
But it's a must to decipher one's queen
from a worm who plays groupie and spread around the bad germ
I cherish the twilight
I maximize, my soul is the right size
I watch for the power to run out on the moon
(And that'll be sometime soon)
Faker than a fist of kids
speakin that they're black
When they're just niggas trying to be Greek
Or some tongues who lied
and said "We'll be natives to the end"
Nowadays we don't even speak
I guess we got our own life to live
Or is it because we want our own kingdom to rule?
Every now and then I step to the now
for now I see back then I might have acted like a fool
Now I won't apologize for it
This is not a bunch of Bradys
but a bunch of black man's pride
Yet I can safely say
I've never played a sister by touching where her private parts reside
I've always walked the right side of the road
If I wasn't making song I wouldn't be a thug selling drugs
But a man with a plan
and if I was a rug cleaner
betcha Pos'd have the cleanest rugs I am.

SMARTS! Smarten up with ya smartness,
To busy surviving to argue bout Darwin,

Darling.

  

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jahlove7
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108. "*lol* when you consider that hip hop borrows from other genres"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

not only musically, but lyrically, you really don't have much of an argument to stand on.

you know, like chuck d's "hooked the the boy who makes slaves out of men" line, which is straight up marvin.

i can put james brown's poem on heroine up here and it would easily match plug 1's stuff.

good try, but that's just one, i got decades of material i can put up that would trump your stuff.

you're right, you can do this all day. but i can be up here all day AND night...for months at that. *lol*

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Sat Aug-22-09 01:24 PM

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110. "Hip Hop borrows from its foremothers and fathers and has"
In response to Reply # 108
Sat Aug-22-09 01:24 PM by Musa

  

          

no shame in it while other artist from other genres and within have been stealing for decades.

Marvin's line was great and althought Chuck D ain't known as the greatest lyricist Welcome to the Terrordome Fight the Power Burn Hollywood Burn Who Stole the Soul Black steEl in the Hour of Chaos SAY A WHOLE HELL OF A LOT and got LINES FOR DAYS.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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jahlove7
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115. "the difference is, hip-hop also disses those it borrows from"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

while obviously dependent on them to get a hit, especially musically speaking.

and i'm quite sure you got lines for days for hip-hop artists. but i got songs for days. big difference.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Mon Aug-24-09 11:24 AM

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123. "Are we talking about the lyrics or the melodies the post ain't"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

about songs it about lyrics in those songs.

Many of the greatest songs of all time are great not because of their lyrics.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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M1Z
Member since Aug 30th 2003
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Sat Aug-22-09 12:55 AM

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87. "Personally I think Love's Gonna Getcha is Lyricism at its FINEST"
In response to Reply # 14
Sat Aug-22-09 01:07 AM by M1Z

  

          

Save Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder and Michael of course.

Other than that me and Musa are HERE>><<.

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Sat Aug-22-09 08:28 AM

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96. "That was the first song that came to mind"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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redbaron
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109. "anybody else think he meant 'Grap Luva' ?"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          


i thought 'damn....this guy must have a grap luva fetish'


_______________________________________

you have sexually transmitted crazy mouth...DEALBREAKER!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdIMxP70sAM&feature=related

  

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disco dj
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17. "^^^what HE Said^^^"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

>.. I'd put up someone like
>Bob Dylan or Elvis Costello against any Hip-Hop artist, and
>someone can probably pick out examples for any genre that
>employs lyrics extensively.


______________



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SMDtheMC
Member since Aug 04th 2009
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Fri Aug-21-09 08:29 AM

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16. "It's concise vs. verbose"
In response to Reply # 0


          

some can argue that less is more, and that song lyrics are more poetic, than hiphop lyrics which leave far less to the imagination...although I prefer hiphop lyrics; I try to employ a more poetic style personally

http://www.facebook.com/smdthemc
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Eddy
Member since Jul 07th 2003
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Fri Aug-21-09 08:30 AM

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18. "i think it's more a case of the core structure of hip-hop"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

providing a base upon which the more gifted of lyricists can paint a more whole, complete, and occasionally more challenging picture upon.

  

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disco dj
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Fri Aug-21-09 08:33 AM

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21. "now THIS I can ride with."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

.

______________



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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Fri Aug-21-09 11:57 AM

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39. "*smh* talk about splitting hairs"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

dude basically verbalized the idea better so you cosigned it, but the idea behind it is the same

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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jasonprague
Member since Sep 29th 2005
1900 posts
Fri Aug-21-09 11:26 AM

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30. "co-sign. very well put"
In response to Reply # 18


          




PEACE

"The struggle of man against power is the struggle of memory against forgetting." - Kundera

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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Fri Aug-21-09 10:27 AM

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24. "only if we're talking the best from all genres..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

..i think hip hop would take it ..certainly not in this era tho

< Live Mixshow - Thurs 11PM/EST >
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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Fri Aug-21-09 10:43 AM

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25. "the deniers are tripping, no other musical form has the potential..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

to say as much, and to say w/ as much depth, detail and meaning as hip-hop

and it's as simple as the fact that, by definition, lyricists can SAY MORE WORDS in a song than singers can....

now, i'd argue that the potential hasn't been fully or properly utilized, but....

________________________________________________________________
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disco dj
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Fri Aug-21-09 10:49 AM

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26. "you can't base an argument like this on "potential"."
In response to Reply # 25
Fri Aug-21-09 10:59 AM by disco dj

  

          

which is yet another reason why "greatest of all time" and "best ever" arguments are impossible to win.

>
>and it's as simple as the fact that, by definition, lyricists
>can SAY MORE WORDS in a song than singers can....

where'd you read THAT definition?

*EDIT*

and does saying more in a song mean that the lyrics are more meaningful? How does quantity of words = quality?



>
>now, i'd argue that the potential hasn't been fully or
>properly utilized, but....


So if we're arguing on potetntial, then EVERYTHING goes out the window.

(furthermore, if the potetntial hasn't been fully utilized, how is it greater than eveything that proceeded it? )

______________



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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Fri Aug-21-09 11:07 AM

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28. "what musical form has brought the breadth and depth of issues..."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

to the table that hip-hop has, using lyrics?

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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disco dj
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Fri Aug-21-09 11:45 AM

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31. "ummm...SOUL MUSIC?"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

>to the table that hip-hop has, using lyrics?

you've GOT to be kidding me to ask a question like that.



I'm convinced that you guys don't listen to anything but Hip-Hop.


You dudes are acting like Rap artists invented social commentary within music.





______________



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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
32093 posts
Fri Aug-21-09 11:48 AM

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33. "RE: ummm...SOUL MUSIC?"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          


>I'm convinced that you guys don't listen to anything but
>Hip-Hop.
>

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Fri Aug-21-09 11:54 AM

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35. "convinced, maybe...correct...no...."
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
32093 posts
Sat Aug-22-09 10:35 AM

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97. "cmon cutty... you know I didn't mean YOU "
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

when people make posts like this i can't help but think they're one of those hip hop or die cats

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Fri Aug-21-09 11:53 AM

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34. "soul music is mostly love songs w/ the occasional message song..."
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

just like pop

let's not fool ourselves into thinking every soul song writer was Curtis Mayfield, okay?

i disagree with you...and i listen to a lot of music aside from hip-hop

no music has ever touched, and can not because of the nature of lyrics in hip-hop, the variety of subjects, perspectives and knowledge that hip-hop has...i'm sorry

and for the record, i barely ever listen to rappers precisely due to the narrowness of subject matter

but over time, if you listen carefully, you can learn a lot more from rappers than you can from singers...

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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disco dj
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37. "name me ONE topic, that wasn't touched on before Hip-Hop."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

just ONE.


and I'm pretty sure somebody wrote and sang about it 20 or 30 years before....


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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Fri Aug-21-09 12:01 PM

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42. "oh c'mon, disco...of course the topics have been touched on before..."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

but no musical form before hip-hop was able to bring issues like poverty, racism, etc. to the forefront and into serious discussion like hip-hop has

america's fascination w/ status and material goods...never touched on as thoroughly by anything else

male/female realtionships beyond the cliche'd sentiments of love songs...never touched on as thoroughly by anything else

again, political and social issues...especially never brought to the forefront or as important or dealt w/ as thoroughly and as clearly as hip-hop

so, sure...nothing new under the sun...but that doesn't mean hip-hop didn't do it in a more central way

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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disco dj
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45. "you're arguing for the sake of it now..."
In response to Reply # 42
Fri Aug-21-09 12:12 PM by disco dj

  

          

>but no musical form before hip-hop was able to bring issues
>like poverty, racism, etc. to the forefront and into serious
>discussion like hip-hop has

"Village Ghetto Land"- Stevie Wonder
"Cash in Your Face" - ibid
"Bad Luck" - Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes
"Inner City Blues"- Marvin Gaye
"Four Women"- Nina Simone

I could go on for hours...



>
>america's fascination w/ status and material goods...never
>touched on as thoroughly by anything else

"Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz...my friends all have Benzes, I must make amends..." (C) Janis Joplin ( who dies before Hip-Hop was created.



>
>male/female realtionships beyond the cliche'd sentiments of
>love songs...never touched on as thoroughly by anything else

utterly ridiculous. So men and women didn't tell stories on wax before Hip-hop? or are you saying they couldn't articulate it well?

Blues Music would like a word with you...

PLEASE give me an example of this supposedly deep reassement of male/female relationships.


>
>again, political and social issues...especially never brought
>to the forefront or as important or dealt w/ as thoroughly and
>as clearly as hip-hop

Gil Scott Heron, Nina Simone, and the Last Poets are REALLY pissed at this post...


>
>so, sure...nothing new under the sun...but that doesn't mean
>hip-hop didn't do it in a more central way

until you support your arguement with something other than "because i said so", I don't see it.




______________



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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Fri Aug-21-09 12:15 PM

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53. "you're pulling out a bunch of specific examples, but the post..."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

is a "generally" type of post

all of those examples you put up are good examples

and all of that laid a foundation for the type of broad commentary and subject matter that hip-hop would speak on

but overall, on the whole, no other form of music can say as much as hip-hop can

and it's puzzling to me that that's even debatable...

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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disco dj
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Fri Aug-21-09 12:19 PM

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58. "I'm giving examples...you're coming from the heart."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

and in this discussion emotion plays NO role.


>is a "generally" type of post

it's not general when you use an ABSOLUTE. I've said that a hundred times.


>
>all of those examples you put up are good examples

yes, they are. No where are YOURS?


>
>and all of that laid a foundation for the type of broad
>commentary and subject matter that hip-hop would speak on

that's what I'm saying. So don't act like Hip-hop took the baton and ran that much farther with it...


>
>but overall, on the whole, no other form of music can say as
>much as hip-hop can
>

what are you basing this on?


>and it's puzzling to me that that's even debatable...

you're DEFINITELY puzzled. I can see that. and the fact that we're debating it is PROOF that it is, in fact debateable.


Seriously, man. Support your argument with something. All you keep saying is "Hip-Hop does it better". What makes you say that? Name some examples of where Hip-Hop took it to uncharted territory...



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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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73. ""
In response to Reply # 58


  

          


>and in this discussion emotion plays NO role.
>

why not? Heart and feelings don’t matter when it comes to music?

okay player…

>>is a "generally" type of post
>
>it's not general when you use an ABSOLUTE. I've said that a
>hundred times.
>

you’re taking it way too seriously

my head is starting to hurt from how smart you guys are in here…


>>
>>all of those examples you put up are good examples
>
>yes, they are. No where are YOURS?
>


why name all the names and albums that we all already know…I’m assuming that anyone w/ a cursory knowledge of hip-hop’s “history” would just take it as fact that hip-hop has touched on a lot of things w/ a depth and a breadth that other genres can’t, but I guess I was wrong…


>>
>>and all of that laid a foundation for the type of broad
>>commentary and subject matter that hip-hop would speak on
>
>that's what I'm saying. So don't act like Hip-hop took the
>baton and ran that much farther with it...
>

well…I mean, the so-called “powers that be” had a lot more problems w/ hip-hop and how and what it said than anything that came before it….


>>
>>but overall, on the whole, no other form of music can say as
>>much as hip-hop can
>>
>
>what are you basing this on?
>

there’s just more room in a rhyme to say things, and to say them directly


>>and it's puzzling to me that that's even debatable...
>
>you're DEFINITELY puzzled. I can see that. and the fact that
>we're debating it is PROOF that it is, in fact debateable.
>

yeah, obviously I guess…

>Seriously, man. Support your argument with something. All you
>keep saying is "Hip-Hop does it better". What makes you say
>that? Name some examples of where Hip-Hop took it to uncharted
>territory...
>
>


I never said hip-hop discovered some hidden subject matter that any art (music or otherwise) hadn’t touched on before, but hip-hop can just by it’s structure say more…

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TomWaitsInOkkervil
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49. "Just a listen to What's Going On (the album) discredits every part of th..."
In response to Reply # 42
Fri Aug-21-09 12:13 PM by TomWaitsInOkkervil

  

          

Obviously, it is an exceptional example in it's quality and impact, but it's far from alone.

  

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philpot
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55. "this right here"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

>it is an exceptional example in it's quality and
>impact, but it's far from alone.

albums and songs that touch on these subjects are much more far and few between than in hip-hop

so of course there are a bunch of albums, songs and artists that touched on a variety of subjects before hip-hop, but, again, no other form can do it as much and as well and as broadly, overall, as hip-hop

and i think hip-hop's impact on the world as a whole is proof of that

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TomWaitsInOkkervil
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56. "I think you're overstating the prevelance in Hip-Hop, and understating....."
In response to Reply # 55
Fri Aug-21-09 12:21 PM by TomWaitsInOkkervil

  

          

...it outside Hip-Hop. Folk, for example, has a strong tradition of protest songs and social commentary.

  

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philpot
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59. "i think your hip-hop memory is short, or you don't really pay attn to ly..."
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

in hip-hop songs

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TomWaitsInOkkervil
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61. "And I think you're not nearly as familiar with other genres"
In response to Reply # 59
Fri Aug-21-09 12:23 PM by TomWaitsInOkkervil

  

          

And that is coloring your view. Plus, you have an emotional attachment that is getting in the way of seeing it.

  

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disco dj
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62. "And he KEEPS refusing to accept it."
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

based on his replies, it's plain to see...


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philpot
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66. "maybe not, i'm sorry, but i'm not your typical "music knowitall""
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

i mean, we got a lot of those here...look down their noses at anyone who doesn't have the god-given knowledge of all things musical that they do

so i decided in this post to defend the hip-hop side of things


again

sue me

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TomWaitsInOkkervil
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69. "Hip-Hop doesn't need defending here"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

It's the other genres that are being slighted. And no one should be expected to be a deeply familiar with every kind of music, but if that's the case, such an adamant position doesn't have much basis.

  

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disco dj
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70. "but you haven't "Defended" anything..."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          


>so i decided in this post to defend the hip-hop side of
>things
>


you're presenting your opinion as fact. Which *might* work if you had some evidence. But you don't...



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philpot
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72. "i feel like i have...if you don't agree, that's cool..."
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

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jahlove7
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74. "RE: this right here"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

>albums and songs that touch on these subjects are much more
>far and few between than in hip-hop

really? okay, how about any 70's stevie album. 60's and 70's sly and stevie, 70's ewf, p-funk, etc. dude, sorry to burst your bubble, but you're dead wrong on this one, period.

>so of course there are a bunch of albums, songs and artists
>that touched on a variety of subjects before hip-hop, but,
>again, no other form can do it as much and as well and as
>broadly, overall, as hip-hop

i disagree wholeheartedly on this one. if anything, overall hip-hop is the most elementary form of music of them all.

>and i think hip-hop's impact on the world as a whole is proof
>of that

um, soul music held the WORLD in its hands from about 1960 until about 1990. and that also includes funk as well.

every genre has its time. hip hop is having its time now. it's really that simple.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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spirit
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82. "i'll take the bait. hip-hop has covered lots of ground other genres didn..."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

- geto boys 'read these nikes' (would love to hear the soul or rock song about leaving footprints on people after stomping them)
- run dmc 'sucker mc's' (a song about rappers that suck that pre-dates rap? i don't think so LOL)
- krs' 'i'm a blunt getting smoked and i can't wake up'
- tupac's 'strictly representing' (did people make shout out songs for artists in their entire genre pre-rap? i doubt it)
- public enemy's 'by the time i get to arizona' (was there a song about killing the governor of arizona for not wanting to recognize the MLK holiday pre-rap? FUCK NO)

i could go on and on all day, if you want. LOL.



___

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M1Z
Member since Aug 30th 2003
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Sat Aug-22-09 01:29 AM

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94. "Hell Yeah by Dead Prez...What genre had a pizza man stick up song?"
In response to Reply # 82
Sat Aug-22-09 01:30 AM by M1Z

  

          

And I'm waiting for him to give me Papa Was A Rolling Stone when I tell him to name me a song like Me and Jesus The Pimp by The Coup so I can ether him.

Hell, HALF THE SONGS ON Steal this Album are one of a kinds.
SMARTS! Smarten up with ya smartness,
To busy surviving to argue bout Darwin,

Darling.

  

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scorpion
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117. "dig deeper in yr record collection..."
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

>- geto boys 'read these nikes' (would love to hear the soul
>or rock song about leaving footprints on people after stomping
>them)

Violence:

Another One Bites The Dust was about SHOOTING and KILLING one's enemy. Literally.

The Payback. self-explanatory. James was gonna get in that ass.

I forget the name of the Johnny Cash song where he "shot a man in Reno just to watch him die..."

Ron Wood of The Rolling Stones has a song called "I'm Gonna Knock Your Teeth Out"

Jimi Hendrix/The Leaves "Hey Joe" about killing a cheating woman...



>- run dmc 'sucker mc's' (a song about rappers that suck that
>pre-dates rap? i don't think so LOL)

Funkadelic's Let's Take It To The Stage dissed other funk groups by name and challenged them to battle

James Brown called out his competitors by name in Get Up Offa That Thang


>- krs' 'i'm a blunt getting smoked and i can't wake up'

Songs about drugs in other genres are far too plentiful...

>- tupac's 'strictly representing' (did people make shout out
>songs for artists in their entire genre pre-rap? i doubt it)

When Smokey Sings by ABC

Killing Me Softly was about Don McLean of American Pie fame

American Pie was about and shouted out Buddy Holly

Stevie did an album called Tribute To Uncle Ray

Kim Fields's remake of Dear Michael dedicated to MJ

Nightshift by the Commodores saluted Jackie Wilson and Marvin Gaye by name....


>- public enemy's 'by the time i get to arizona' (was there a
>song about killing the governor of arizona for not wanting to
>recognize the MLK holiday pre-rap? FUCK NO)


There wasnt an MLK holiday pre-rap...But Stevie Wonder's Happy Birthday attacked the US Government for not establishing an MLK holiday...

after the King Holiday was established a group of R&B and rap stars did a song to commemorate he holiday...

Let's not talk about all the protest songs of the 60's and 70's abt issue of the day...


>i could go on and on all day, if you want. LOL.


LOL.

  

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M1Z
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93. "87 is a good example."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          


SMARTS! Smarten up with ya smartness,
To busy surviving to argue bout Darwin,

Darling.

  

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TomWaitsInOkkervil
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40. "I'd say folk and rock as well"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

  

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disco dj
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48. "absolutely."
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

.

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spirit
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81. "it goes beyond social commentary though"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

other than country and blues, songwriters in most genres generally never use as many bars per verse as hip-hop artists traditionally do, which affords hip-hop songwriters a great latitude in exploring a topic in greater depth than songwriters in most other genres

what soul songwriter can compare to what ras kass did in nature of the threat? just from a genre perspective, hip-hop fans will simply accept far more WORDS from a performer than any other genre. a great writer with something to say can cover far more ground in discussing a topic in song form in hip-hop than any other genre.

a guy like eugene mcdaniels or gary barts may write a protest song, but it won't be five to seven minutes long and average 12 words per bar when sung/recorded.
___

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disco dj
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126. "so basically you're sayin "More equals better"?"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

.

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TomWaitsInOkkervil
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Fri Aug-21-09 11:19 AM

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29. "Verbosity is just as often a hinderance in Hip-Hop as it is a blessing"
In response to Reply # 25
Fri Aug-21-09 11:23 AM by TomWaitsInOkkervil

  

          

See Canibus' entire career. Being able to jam more words into the traditional Hip-Hop song format means that Hip-Hop lyricists aren't pushed as much to revise lyrics to pack more punch per line, and be more concise. It often leads to rambling, word salad portions, even in otherwise focused songs.

Saying more words is not the same thing as saying more.

  

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disco dj
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32. "^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

.

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philpot
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Fri Aug-21-09 11:55 AM

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36. "i agree, but that doesn't change the basic fact..."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

that rapping allows more information to be presented than traditional "lyrics" possibly can

period

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TomWaitsInOkkervil
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41. "Certainly, more information can be presented"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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43. "which is the basic idea behind all of this...ppl just getting mad..."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

because they think ppl are saying hip-hop is better...

and a lot of y'all secretly or not-so-secretly have a serious disdain for hip-hop b/c you've been told "it's not really music" so much that you started believing the hype somewhere along the line...

i often lol @ the hate former or so-called hip-hop heads have for hip-hop

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TomWaitsInOkkervil
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Fri Aug-21-09 12:07 PM

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44. "RE: which is the basic idea behind all of this...ppl just getting mad..."
In response to Reply # 43
Fri Aug-21-09 12:09 PM by TomWaitsInOkkervil

  

          

>because they think ppl are saying hip-hop is better...
>
>and a lot of y'all secretly or not-so-secretly have a serious
>disdain for hip-hop b/c you've been told "it's not really
>music" so much that you started believing the hype somewhere
>along the line...
>
>i often lol @ the hate former or so-called hip-hop heads have
>for hip-hop

The basic idea of this thread is that Hip-Hop lyrics are greater than all other genres. It's right in the title. And the common argument seems to be that because Hip-Hop songs pack in more lyrics, they have greater meaning and depth, when done right. I disagree with both notions.

This hate of yours is imaginary, I'm not trying marginalize Hip-Hop or discredit it.

  

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philpot
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Fri Aug-21-09 12:11 PM

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46. "post 42, and the other thing is..."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

hip-hop deals w/ issues more directly while other forms of music tend to take on issues more symbolically or "under the radar"...i mean, most ppl have no idea wtf bob dylan was singing about

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TomWaitsInOkkervil
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51. "I disagree"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

>hip-hop deals w/ issues more directly while other forms of
>music tend to take on issues more symbolically or "under the
>radar"...i mean, most ppl have no idea wtf bob dylan was
>singing about

Even with Bob Dylan, before he went electric, his lyrics were extremely direct.

  

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disco dj
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63. "you're wasting your time with this guy. man..."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

.

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TomWaitsInOkkervil
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Fri Aug-21-09 12:26 PM

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65. "Yeah, I can see that"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

  

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philpot
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67. "when did it become passe' to defend hip-hop?"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

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disco dj
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52. "thank you."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          


>The basic idea of this thread is that Hip-Hop lyrics are
>greater than all other genres. It's right in the title. And
>the common argument seems to be that because Hip-Hop songs
>pack in more lyrics, they have greater meaning and depth, when
>done right. I disagree with both notions.
>

right. THEY said it. Yet people can't defend it without crying "hate"...


>This hate of yours is imaginary, I'm not trying marginalize
>Hip-Hop or discredit it.

right. Nobody in here hates Hip-Hop. I'm just not gonna sit here and give it a pass as the most lyrical music ever created. It ain't that simple...



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zavidovici
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Fri Aug-21-09 03:29 PM

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78. "well said"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

sade is one of my favorite lyricists because of her ability to express so much in so few words

  

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PimpMacula
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Fri Aug-21-09 11:00 AM

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27. "agreed, technically speaking. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and this is the one aspect of hiphop that is superior to other genres and makes it unique, imo.

other genres may have introspective and though provoking lyrics, but they tend to not be nearly as intricate or elaborate (in a technical sens) as some of the best hiphop lyrics.

this is also why i get so infuriated and depressed when artists like little wayne completely devalue the lyrical aspect.

  

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AndrewVS
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posts
Fri Aug-21-09 03:18 PM

76. "People need to stop thinking like this."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Aug-21-09 03:18 PM by AndrewVS

          

I like different genres' lyrics for different reasons. There is no best genre for lyrics. There is no other place you'll get lyrics like you do in Hip Hop. But you can't get what you do out of the new Animal Collective album in any rap song in existence. And apply this logic to other genres as well. People need to stop thinking like this. The fact is that there are different genres for different styles of moods and life itself and if you listen solely to Hip Hop you are severely missing out. If you listen solely to Rock you are severely missing out.

  

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sha mecca
Member since Oct 21st 2004
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Fri Aug-21-09 03:20 PM

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77. "man thank you. there are different types of lyricism"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

the amount of words in your delivery doesn't = better
yes you can say more
but being able to say a whole fucking lot with less words
takes skill too

www.mybabystayfresh.com

  

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AndrewVS
Charter member
posts
Fri Aug-21-09 11:38 PM

85. "RE: man thank you. there are different types of lyricism"
In response to Reply # 77


          

>the amount of words in your delivery doesn't = better
>yes you can say more
>but being able to say a whole fucking lot with less words
>takes skill too

Yep yep yep^^^

  

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scorpion
Charter member
29592 posts
Sun Aug-23-09 11:27 PM

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118. "^^^she's an emcee^^^"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          


*******
Sinister Beauty
www.windimoto.com
www.myspace.com/windimotomusic
http://twitter.com/windimoto
www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=54646599773
http://windimoto.com/scorpeze-blog/

  

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jahlove7
Charter member
10743 posts
Fri Aug-21-09 08:19 PM

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79. "here's where this thread is flawed"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

when it comes to love and romance, where is hip-hop at the forefront exactly?

we all know that hip-hop is severely dysfunctional in this area, compared to EVERY other genre of music out there.

even your so-called conscious emcees and rappers don't betray the chauvenist/misogynist code.

and for every hip-hop album that does express romance, there's a hundred at the very least in every other genre that has it.

it's understandable that you're a hip-hop head, but my advice to you is listen to other genres, it'll broaden your music scope more.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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spirit
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21432 posts
Fri Aug-21-09 08:40 PM

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83. "i think hip-hop beats electronica in the romance category"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

don't overgeneralize. lol.

we're stomping out death metal and go-go in the romance category too. bring it! LOL
___

http://www.newgoldenera.com

  

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jahlove7
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10743 posts
Sat Aug-22-09 01:13 AM

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91. "wow...three whole genres...yeah, hip-hop's ready to rule alright"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

and one of those, electronica is debatable, since kraftwerk, the band that started it all, did quite a bit of romance tunes in their day.

death metal and love don't mix like two dicks and no chick. and go-go...please. *lol*

in the meantime, a cat like lawrence welk is kicking hip-hop's ass in the romance department. go figure. *lol*

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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disco dj
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84260 posts
Mon Aug-24-09 10:43 AM

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122. "AIR, Zero 7, Portishead, Massive Attack, Thievery Corp....."
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

all think you're wrong.


______________



http://www.windimoto.com


http://ten2one.wordpress.com/ <-FEB

http://wallpapershi.net/wallpapers/2012/01/boba-fett-star-wars-star-wars-boba-fett-movie-anime-1080x1920.jpg

  

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howisya
Member since Nov 09th 2002
39983 posts
Mon Aug-24-09 11:51 AM

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124. "talk strange like bjork"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

  

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M1Z
Member since Aug 30th 2003
12623 posts
Sat Aug-22-09 01:20 AM

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92. "Love and romance searching database...AH...Love and Romance"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

As far as COMPETING with other genres pound for pound in the Love and Romance department I can't honestly say that Hiphop can go with the heavyweights like R&B...But when Emcees DO discuss Love/Romance??? You get GEMS like the one below...As far as the misogyny dept Hiphop is HEAVY admittedly so, but then again so is Rock (Led Zeppelin anyone?)

I'd say the ONLY genre beating Hiphop in what it's BREAD AND BUTTER is (Social Commentary - Keeping it funky Hip Hop would have never gone corporate "thug" were it not for PE/BDP/Cube) is maybe Roots Reggae. Rock doesn't do it. Neither does Country. R&B during the 70's came close, but if you really think about it, Hiphop is R&B's underpriviliged lovechild!


Oh yeah, back to Love...

It's like, I care about you, I think about you all the time
it's like, we friends and shit?
which means we treat each other right
you'll be there for me when you gonna be there for me

Verse 1:
yo it wasn't even like that
I wanted my cardiovascular to fight back
cupid had me runnin' circles blindfolded
in the daytime with a flashlight looking for her
yo, sit back, relax and smell the roses
a fly girl by any other name would still be that
but the trick is to see that
I'm caught in between future's fantasies and memories I played back
told my man I started sword fighting
'cause fencing was similar to tongue kissing
if you wait too long you gonna end up confessin'
all I think about is you undressin'
I extended my thoughts in a relationship
but they sunk like the titanic relation-ships
she was in a love triangle
but it wasn't like my feelings weren't there to make it a square
penny's for her thoughts
she's my very own American Beauty, red petals when we talk
...the f word

Chorus 1:
She like music, got me heavily booted(?)
when I'm out with her feelings be mixin'
chemical elixirs, caught her like a sickness
and can't get rid of it, these sexual addictions

Chorus 2:
tangle witted in my opposite sex friendships
with too many emotions, got me bent up
and it's real ill when something going on
but nothings being said trying to figure it out
wrapped all in your head just spit it out and I'll
truly understand what the problem is
'cause you got me twisted tryin' to stress birds
kickin' that f word
fuckin around, flirtin' and stressin' my nerves

Verse 2:
check this situation, I wore my lust like cologne
she called it Obsession
the background's black and white and we adolescents
like what the fuck we know about love?
the more I learn it's like the Clash of the Titans
all I wanna do is avoid fightin'
a little arguing's okay but not everyday
and if we can't communicate what we got decays
until the smell gets more pungent
to the point where we can't be seen in public
body parts fallin' apart, a symbol of what things do
or better yet, a symbol of what friends do, they die
and together forever just sounds fly
that's how it sounded to me when I heard it
and slow motion was her lips as she worded
the f word
"don't take it personal, I like you a lot but I don't wanna lose what we got"
but what we got now is friction
she tellin' me intimacy and friendship she ain't mixin'
the f word

Chorus 1

Verse 3:
yo, you burnin' the candle at both ends
I'm supposed to be the friend, I'm gettin' fried in the end
the big bang theory, what is this a trend?
you ask a girl out and the universe extends
tell me to talk to the hand again and I'll read your palm
I'm smellin' your shit now, don't know how to call
all I wanted was grounds for understanding
I ain't greedy, but to hold your heart I gotta put my hand in, why debate?
you think you can fit me in that anorexic space between love and hate?
I got all of the first one and none of the other
and that's something I learned from my sister and my mother
thought we was close in the genesis before all this
technology was cordless, a senseless courtship
this is more than just a song and when he's treating you wrong
I'm more than just a shoulder to cry on
the F word

SMARTS! Smarten up with ya smartness,
To busy surviving to argue bout Darwin,

Darling.

  

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jahlove7
Charter member
10743 posts
Sat Aug-22-09 01:29 PM

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111. "RE: Love and romance searching database...AH...Love and Romance"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

>As far as COMPETING with other genres pound for pound in the
>Love and Romance department I can't honestly say that Hiphop
>can go with the heavyweights like R&B...But when Emcees DO
>discuss Love/Romance??? You get GEMS like the one below...As
>far as the misogyny dept Hiphop is HEAVY admittedly so, but
>then again so is Rock (Led Zeppelin anyone?)

dude, hip hop can't go against the lightweights in other genres. there's simply not enough love and romance material hip-hop's entire collective catalogue to complete. and once again, for every GEM like the one you included, i can put up 100 GEMS in damn near every other genre that murks it. there's a degree of misogyny in every music, but overall rock ethers hip-hop in the love in romance department. hell, so does polka if you wanna take it there.

>I'd say the ONLY genre beating Hiphop in what it's BREAD AND
>BUTTER is (Social Commentary - Keeping it funky Hip Hop would
>have never gone corporate "thug" were it not for PE/BDP/Cube)
>is maybe Roots Reggae. Rock doesn't do it. Neither does
>Country. R&B during the 70's came close, but if you really
>think about it, Hiphop is R&B's underpriviliged lovechild!

wrong again. from about 1964 on, soul music influenced an entire world with social consciousness that lasted until the late 80's. that's three decades, and that consciousness spread to various other genres. hip-hop's consciousness window overall didn't last 10 years. curtis mayfield alone put it down longer than that. no way in hell is hip-hop touching soul and funk music in terms of social consciousness and impact. for every heavyweight you cite, i can give you an rj's latest arrival with "shackles" and keep it moving without even having to get to the heavyweights. that's the difference.
>
>Oh yeah, back to Love...
>
>It's like, I care about you, I think about you all the time
>it's like, we friends and shit?
>which means we treat each other right
>you'll be there for me when you gonna be there for me
>
>Verse 1:
>yo it wasn't even like that
>I wanted my cardiovascular to fight back
>cupid had me runnin' circles blindfolded
>in the daytime with a flashlight looking for her
>yo, sit back, relax and smell the roses
>a fly girl by any other name would still be that
>but the trick is to see that
>I'm caught in between future's fantasies and memories I played
>back
>told my man I started sword fighting
>'cause fencing was similar to tongue kissing
>if you wait too long you gonna end up confessin'
>all I think about is you undressin'
>I extended my thoughts in a relationship
>but they sunk like the titanic relation-ships
>she was in a love triangle
>but it wasn't like my feelings weren't there to make it a
>square
>penny's for her thoughts
>she's my very own American Beauty, red petals when we talk
>...the f word
>
>Chorus 1:
>She like music, got me heavily booted(?)
>when I'm out with her feelings be mixin'
>chemical elixirs, caught her like a sickness
>and can't get rid of it, these sexual addictions
>
>Chorus 2:
>tangle witted in my opposite sex friendships
>with too many emotions, got me bent up
>and it's real ill when something going on
>but nothings being said trying to figure it out
>wrapped all in your head just spit it out and I'll
>truly understand what the problem is
>'cause you got me twisted tryin' to stress birds
>kickin' that f word
>fuckin around, flirtin' and stressin' my nerves
>
>Verse 2:
>check this situation, I wore my lust like cologne
>she called it Obsession
>the background's black and white and we adolescents
>like what the fuck we know about love?
>the more I learn it's like the Clash of the Titans
>all I wanna do is avoid fightin'
>a little arguing's okay but not everyday
>and if we can't communicate what we got decays
>until the smell gets more pungent
>to the point where we can't be seen in public
>body parts fallin' apart, a symbol of what things do
>or better yet, a symbol of what friends do, they die
>and together forever just sounds fly
>that's how it sounded to me when I heard it
>and slow motion was her lips as she worded
>the f word
>"don't take it personal, I like you a lot but I don't wanna
>lose what we got"
>but what we got now is friction
>she tellin' me intimacy and friendship she ain't mixin'
>the f word
>
>Chorus 1
>
>Verse 3:
>yo, you burnin' the candle at both ends
>I'm supposed to be the friend, I'm gettin' fried in the end
>the big bang theory, what is this a trend?
>you ask a girl out and the universe extends
>tell me to talk to the hand again and I'll read your palm
>I'm smellin' your shit now, don't know how to call
>all I wanted was grounds for understanding
>I ain't greedy, but to hold your heart I gotta put my hand in,
>why debate?
>you think you can fit me in that anorexic space between love
>and hate?
>I got all of the first one and none of the other
>and that's something I learned from my sister and my mother
>thought we was close in the genesis before all this
>technology was cordless, a senseless courtship
>this is more than just a song and when he's treating you
>wrong
>I'm more than just a shoulder to cry on
>the F word

oh yeah, i can just feel the love in this. bro, do better...seriously. *lol*

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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CondoM
Member since Aug 20th 2006
9881 posts
Fri Aug-21-09 08:32 PM

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80. "Make it brief son, half short, twice strong (c) GZA"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Sometimes less is more.

Hip-hop doesn't have superior lyrics just because there's more room for them.

There's plenty of examples throughout the post, so I won't bother adding any more.

http://www.last.fm/user/_CondoM_/

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
16105 posts
Sat Aug-22-09 12:54 AM

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86. "nah, cuz many other genres say more with much less words"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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M1Z
Member since Aug 30th 2003
12623 posts
Sat Aug-22-09 01:00 AM

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88. "All U need 2 silence the critics is a lil ditty from Mos Def. Exhibit A"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Aug-22-09 01:05 AM by M1Z

  

          

One thing you HAVE to say about Mos is he covered a SIMPLE topic that is CRITICAL to just about ALL HUMANITY in a SIMPLE format. He doesn't wane on in abstract fashion about the dangers posed by the powers that be, he just gets straight to the point and drives home a forceful argument that we need to address the problem with our water supply i.e.


New World Water make the tide rise high
Come inland and make your house go "Bye" (My house!)
Fools done upset the Old Man River
Made him carry slave ships and fed him dead nigga
Now his belly full and he about to flood somethin
So I'ma throw a rope that ain't tied to nothin
Tell your crew use the H2 in wise amounts since
it's the New World Water; and every drop counts
You can laugh and take it as a joke if you wanna
But it don't rain for four weeks some summers
And it's about to get real wild in the half
You be buying Evian just to take a fuckin bath
Heads is acting wild, sippin poor, puffin dank
Competin with the next man for higher playin rank
See I ain't got time try to be Big Hank,
Fuck a bank; I need a twenty-year water tank
Cause while these knuckleheads is out here sweatin they goods
The sun is sitting in the treetops burnin the woods
And as the flames from the blaze get higher and higher
They say, "Don't drink the water! We need it for the fire!"
New York is drinkin it (New World Water)
Now all of California is drinkin it (New World Water)
Way up north and down south is drinkin it (New World Water)
Used to have minerals and zinc in it (New World Water)
Now they say it got lead and stink in it (New World Water)
Fluorocarbons and monoxide
Push the water table lopside
Used to be free now it cost you a fee
Cause oil tankers spill they load as they roam cross the sea
Man, you gotta cook with it, bathe and clean with it (That's right)
When it's hot, summertime you fiend for it (Let em know)
You gotta put it in the iron you steamin with (That's right)
It's what they dress wounds and treat diseases with (Shout it out)
The rich and poor, black and white got need for it (That's right)
And everybody in the world can agree with this (Let em know)
Consumption promotes health and easiness (That's right)
Go too long without it on this earth and you leavin it (Shout it out)
Americans wastin it on some leisure shit (Say word?)
And other nations be desperately seekin it (Let em know)
Bacteria washing up on they beaches (Say word?)
Don't drink the water, son they can't wash they feet with it (Let em know)
Young babies in perpetual neediness (Say word?)
Epidemics hopppin up off the petri dish (Let em know)
Control centers try to play it all secretive (Say word?)
To avoid public panic and freakiness (Let em know)
There are places where TB is common as TV
Cause foreign-based companies go and get greedy
The type of cats who pollute the whole shore line
Have it purified, sell it for a dollar twenty-five
Now the world is drinkin it
Your moms, wife, and baby girl is drinkin it
Up north and down south is drinkin it
You should just have to go to your sink for it
The cash registers is goin "cha-chink!" for it
Fluorocarbons and monoxide
Got the fish lookin cockeyed
Used to be free now it cost you a fee
Cause it's all about gettin that cash (Money)

Said it's all about gettin that cash (Money) (x9)
Johny cash (Money)
Roseland cash (Money)
Give me cash (Money)
Cold cash (Money)
(Repeat to fade)

Cash rules everything around me,
Move!


SMARTS! Smarten up with ya smartness,
To busy surviving to argue bout Darwin,

Darling.

  

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TomWaitsInOkkervil
Member since Feb 07th 2009
1229 posts
Sat Aug-22-09 08:07 AM

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95. "Johnny Cash - Don't Go Near the Water"
In response to Reply # 88
Sat Aug-22-09 08:10 AM by TomWaitsInOkkervil

  

          

From the fountains in the mountains comes the water running cool and clear and blue
And it comes down from the hills and it goes down to the towns and passes through
When it gets down to the cities then the water turns into a dirty grey
It's poisoned and polluted by the people as it goes along its way
Don't go near the water children see the fish all dead upon the shore
Don't go near the water cause the water isn't water anymore

I took my boy fishin' to my old favorite fishin' hole
I had caught many a fish out of that deep clear water
From the time I was a boy like him
After we'd fished a few minutes he said did you get a bite yet daddy
I said I think I got a nibble son
Me too he said
Then he said daddy if we catch a fish can we eat him
I said well there was a time son
This water's bad now and it might not be safe to eat the fish but there was a time

There was a time the air was clean and you could see forever cross the plains
The wind was sweet as honey and no one had ever heard of acid rain
We're torturin' the earth and pourin' every kind of evil in the sea
We violated nature and our children have to pay the penalty
Don't go near the water children...

  

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M1Z
Member since Aug 30th 2003
12623 posts
Sat Aug-22-09 11:59 AM

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107. "Wow that's pretty darn good."
In response to Reply # 95


  

          


SMARTS! Smarten up with ya smartness,
To busy surviving to argue bout Darwin,

Darling.

  

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Zarathuckya
Charter member
2360 posts
Mon Aug-24-09 04:16 AM

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121. "Mos shouted him out too"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

Said it's all about gettin that cash (Money) (x9)
Johny cash (Money)

Never got that until now!
------

My Vomitspit remix -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF81MX3viTA&feature=fvw

  

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agentzero
Member since Apr 12th 2007
1907 posts
Mon Aug-24-09 04:45 PM

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127. "thats whatsup"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

To people like US, a record is a piece of history. A moment in time.
Most people don't get it.

  

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Anonymous
Charter member
23234 posts
Sat Aug-22-09 11:05 AM

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101. "sticking with the water theme - Van Morrison - And It Stoned Me"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

Half a mile from the county fair
And the rain keep pourin down
Me and billy standin there
With a silver half a crown
Hands are full of a fishin rod
And the tackle on our backs
We just stood there gettin wet
With our backs against the fence

Oh, the water
Oh, the water
Oh, the water
Hope it dont rain all day

Chorus:
And it stoned me to my soul
Stoned me just like jelly roll
And it stoned me
And it stoned me to my soul
Stoned me just like goin home
And it stoned me

Then the rain let up and the sun came up
And we were gettin dry
Almost let a pick-up truck nearly pass us by
So we jumped right in and the driver grinned
And he dropped us up the road
We looked at the swim and we jumped right in
Not to mention fishing poles

Oh, the water
Oh, the water
Oh, the water
Let it run all over me

Chorus

On the way back home we sang a song
But our throats were getting dry
Then we saw the man from across the road
With the sunshine in his eyes
Well he lived all alone in his own little home
With a great big gallon jar
There were bottles too, one for me and you
And he said hey! there you are

Oh, the water
Oh, the water
Oh, the water
Get it myself from the mountain stream

  

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Anonymous
Charter member
23234 posts
Sat Aug-22-09 11:08 AM

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102. "this is actually a good example to use against your theory"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

and as much as I like Mos Def, and as much as I like that song
it can be argued that hip-hop is too preachy.
too much is explained.
Mos is basically running down his opinions.

in the Van Morrison song I posted, he paints a picture.
he captures emotion.
he lets the listener's mind fill in the blanks.

that to me is good song writing.

New World Water is a dope hip-hop song...but as far as song writing goes, it's just a different beast.

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Mon Aug-24-09 11:06 PM

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131. "Lol too preachy "
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
32093 posts
Sat Aug-22-09 10:42 AM

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98. "Gladys knight on Mr. Welfare> Anything a rapper has spit on the same top..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Aug-22-09 10:46 AM by Amritsar

  

          

and she didn't need to use sports or movie references in her lines as filler (as we know many rappers to do )



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CACNkGP2nJ0

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
32093 posts
Sat Aug-22-09 10:53 AM

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99. "this post would be good as a 'show and prove' "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

we agree on a topic or content and proceed to post links of songs touching on said topic... folks can co-sign which they feel is the more in-depth with the lyrics

  

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Anonymous
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23234 posts
Sat Aug-22-09 11:01 AM

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100. "i don't know how i missed all of this"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Aug-22-09 11:03 AM by Anonymous

  

          

people are forming their opinions based on the wrong thing.

just because a rapper can put more words into a song doesn't mean it's a better genre as far as lyrics go.

less is more in many cases.

how many rap verses are there where 4 bars are dope and the rest is whatever?
how many verses are filled with as many similies that an MC can think of? everything is "like this, or "like that".

other genres of music are more closely related to poetry than hip-hop is.
hip-hop is more closely related to spoken word.

when you have less words to put into a song, when done right, you will focus on the absolute best metaphors, the best similies, the best lines period.

there is too much room for error in hip-hop at times.
and i'm not saying this to act as though people haven't executed rap lyrics because as stated above, Nas, Rakim, etc have proven you can do so.

but that is a very small percentage. most rap lyrics are wasted. you have, on average, 3 16 bar verses to work with and more than half are usually bullshit.

so yes, the potential for more in depth lyricism is in hip-hop, but that by no means equates into hip-hop being the best genre as far as lyrics are concerned.
because depth doesn't equal better all the time.

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Sun Aug-23-09 01:40 PM

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113. "my whole argument was basically based on potential, i'll cop to that..."
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

it's why i didn't feel the need to provide examples

just seems to me like hip-hop has the POTENTIAL to do everything song writing wise that any other genre can do (cause hip-hop truly can incorporate and do what other genres do while remaining hip-hop) PLUS if you can add the rapping element in then you have the POTENTIAL to do more lyrically w/ hip-hop than any other genre

i'll now concede tho, that based on actual output, it's hard to argue that hip-hop is lyrically "BETTER" than other genres

>just because a rapper can put more words into a song doesn't
>mean it's a better genre as far as lyrics go.
>
>less is more in many cases.

>so yes, the potential for more in depth lyricism is in
>hip-hop, but that by no means equates into hip-hop being the
>best genre as far as lyrics are concerned.
>because depth doesn't equal better all the time.
>

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
18289 posts
Fri Jan-15-10 06:25 PM

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139. "Potential is nice and all, but what good is it if it's not lived up to?"
In response to Reply # 113


          

  

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sha mecca
Member since Oct 21st 2004
64667 posts
Sat Aug-22-09 11:09 AM

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103. "lol @ people taking this as an opportunity to shit on hip hop though"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

shame on all of you

www.mybabystayfresh.com

  

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Anonymous
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Sat Aug-22-09 11:11 AM

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104. "not shitting on hip-hop as a whole"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

but on those who misuse and take their platform for granted.


  

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sha mecca
Member since Oct 21st 2004
64667 posts
Sat Aug-22-09 11:32 AM

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105. "no. people are in here shitting on it."
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

www.mybabystayfresh.com

  

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Anonymous
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Sat Aug-22-09 11:34 AM

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106. "well yea, I guess i need to speak for myself"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

there are many hip-hop lyrics that deserve to get shitted on but never as a whole.
there have been some fine examples of lyricism in hip-hop for sure.

  

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chillinCHiEF
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Sun Aug-23-09 03:30 PM

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114. "Yeah, I agree"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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SeV
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Sun Aug-23-09 09:30 PM

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116. "NOWW the lesson wants to big up SIMPLICITY in lyricism"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

interesting

  

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Anonymous
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Mon Aug-24-09 07:26 PM

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128. "^^^doesn't know the difference between"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

simplicity done right and simplicity done wrong.

  

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scorpion
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Sun Aug-23-09 11:31 PM

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119. "this is a prme example of hiphop fan insecurity...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

there's this constant need to prove that hip-hop is superior to other genres of music...

let the music speak for itself to those who can feel it...

*******
Sinister Beauty
www.windimoto.com
www.myspace.com/windimotomusic
http://twitter.com/windimoto
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http://windimoto.com/scorpeze-blog/

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
18289 posts
Sat Sep-12-09 12:14 PM

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135. "Yup."
In response to Reply # 119
Sat Sep-12-09 12:14 PM by Shaun Tha Don

          

And I'm a hip hop fan.

  

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sha mecca
Member since Oct 21st 2004
64667 posts
Sat Sep-12-09 12:44 PM

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137. "basically. "
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

www.mybabystayfresh.com

  

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redbaron
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Mon Aug-24-09 12:21 AM

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120. "the best and the worst due to it's potential"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


come on man, what's more wordy than rap music?

nothing

therefore it has the potential to have the best and worst lyricism

simple mathematics

nothing groundbreaking going here

_______________________________________

you have sexually transmitted crazy mouth...DEALBREAKER!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdIMxP70sAM&feature=related

  

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haji rana pinya
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Mon Aug-24-09 12:04 PM

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125. "no"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.

*********************
www.dumhi.com

  

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thrill
Member since Nov 04th 2006
17071 posts
Mon Aug-24-09 07:47 PM

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129. "i think it's true"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


as a whole, there's more variety of themes and tone, there's more pleasure in formal inventiveness. the blues could be evocative and relatively wide-ranging in theme (though there isn't narrative, is there?), but it wasn't as showily skilful as any number of mc's making complicated patterns of mosaic rhyme.

>Before you start protesting, the hiphop lyricism I'm
>referencing would be along the lines of Com, Mos, Black,
>etc..

uh.... what about khia?

  

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shilohnine
Member since Oct 11th 2007
1469 posts
Mon Aug-24-09 10:06 PM

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130. "no way."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Aug-24-09 10:21 PM by shilohnine

  

          

http://www.darklyrics.com/e/everytimeidie.html

example:

Guitared and Feathered by every time i die

This is a cause for celebration here in the belly of the swarm.
The situation demands that we raise our glasses in honour of the spokesman
We’ve fixated to the floor.
Give us your headline hymns and your saddest verse.

You’re not partnered with the half-hearted anymore.
Our legs are spread wide open,
Our weary heads are splitting at the seams
And we all know you’re proficient in the idioms of grief.
We are capable of the kind of love about which only the petrified can speak.
Concede him the microphone let him sing the triumph of the frauds to all his loyal sycofanatics.
We all cater to the fire, once the walls come rushing down for shame.
I can say it better than you felt it.
And I can be it bigger than you needed it.
I haven’t lived a day of my life apart from the one that everyone’s read about.
I’ll spark de-evolution.
I was specially bred for the cover page of your magazines.

I’ve been fatted up for the guillotines.
Sweet talker, you’re godamn right I’m a blessed lamb.
I can show you all how to have a good time.
I know why you came here, but neither of us will get what you want out of me.
This room has one too many laureates so I’m keeping my peace.
Every candidate ends his life with a cliché,
And the paths of glory lead to nowhere but the grave.

I’ve been spoiled rotten.
Every thought I’ve authorised had curdled.
Not everything is poetry but I can’t convince you of that,
I’ve been drawn and quartered.
I’ve been twice picked over.
And it’s sickening what you’ve come here today to celebrate.
Fuck yeah we’re gonna party tonight.
I am capable of the kind of love about which
Only the intoxicated and the California bound can weep.

  

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BarTek
Member since Nov 10th 2002
51250 posts
Mon Aug-24-09 11:13 PM

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132. "lol fuck no! hahahahah...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

man, you gotta be like 13 or something.. have you every listened to any classic rock? the lyricism in classic rock >>>>>>>>> rappers bitching about shit in hip hop. come on now.

let's play ping pong ■

  

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shilohnine
Member since Oct 11th 2007
1469 posts
Mon Aug-24-09 11:28 PM

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133. "RE: lol fuck no! hahahahah...."
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

i agree!

  

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The Damaja
Member since Aug 02nd 2003
18637 posts
Tue Aug-25-09 12:49 PM

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134. "well i think so"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

although i've never had much chance to digest opera lyrics (or libretto, to be precise)

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

  

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the fronz
Member since Dec 29th 2009
752 posts
Sun Jan-17-10 01:07 AM

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140. "funny, i was listening to libretto as i read this post. still am..."
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

Illoet. feel?
____________________

you can't see me like muppet babies' grandmama

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Fri Jan-15-10 08:08 AM

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138. "^"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


________
<- Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃

I talked a lot of shit in the 00's
Watch me back it up in the 10's
http://avanturb.com

  

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Abstract_TheEclectic_Nubian
Member since Sep 07th 2002
5966 posts
Sun Jan-17-10 03:20 AM

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141. "What I've been saying for years"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Plus, in hip hop, the rapper hits you with more information and imagery in just a couple of seconds Whereas most other genres take the whole song or atleast a whole verse to express one point.

╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮





www.last.fm/user/Tha_Abstract

  

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howisya
Member since Nov 09th 2002
39983 posts
Sun Apr-25-10 04:22 PM

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142. "RE: hiphop lyricsm >>>>>>> all other genres lyrics"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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