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>im getting confused with this 'hip hop already was punk' >theory youre talking about. i know people have been saying hip >hop was the black punk for years (ie it was punk to black >music overall), but it was actually more like the *new* black >rock (the parallels are endless).
i was just thinking of how the tools for creating hip-hop--turntables, other people's music--paralleled the punk musicians who "couldn't play" their instruments or sing well, yet the rawness still sounded good and appealed to the kids, as did the lyrics (hip-hop and punk both had "party" and social commentary songs). both genres were urban born--NYC, LA, london--and communal to those who got it and a racket/noise to those who didn't, who persecuted it.
i've never been into the idea of "black rock" personally. i know when Whale Boy was still alive and obsessed he'd always bring up that afro punk documentary to dis me, but i've never seen it and may not. black people were the first rock & rollers, and while the genre has become majority white a long time ago, blacks never left. i think the supposed "blackness" of the music made by those remaining in the genre is really overstated and overrated. i just want good rock music and couldn't care less who's making it.
>to be honest, i think the closest american rap >will have gotten is the harder crunk/southern rap stuff, even >though it had none of punks anti establishment stance going >on.
right. not a bad idea, but i think it was a little too palatable to outsiders to parallel punk.
>but if we think of grime as the closest to hip hops punk, >sonically, if nothing else, than maybe the nirvana thing will >happen in another 5 or so years (ie grime came around in the >early 00s, and it took over a decade for nirvana to take punk >to the mainstream in the states).
i think i'm lost at the nirvana being punk thing. i know they had that 1991 the year punk broke documentary, but i have a hard time considering them punk.
do you think grime has even influenced any musicians (producers, rappers, etc.) prominent in the U.S.? i just don't see the UK having the only "punk" movement in hip-hop and then having the "grunge" movement, while we over here remain oblivious to it all.
>>i agree (and please don't spoil this by bringing up the >>immediately accepted and quickly generic sounds of swizz >>beatz), but i still think for this to work as hip-hop's >answer >>to punk there had to be an american form of grime. otherwise >>it's just another niche movement, and you guys are >spectacular >>at creating music that never catches on anywhere else. > >swizz? swizz was pretty influential on a lot of grime >producers actually (if you didnt already know).
sigh. that's why i was requesting you not bring it up.
for swizz to be "punk rock" his sound (whether he used to make it himself or he always bought tracks off others) wouldn't have been accepted immediately. name the early swizz beats that bombed. i'll wait.
>i dont think >it not catching on in the US matters. doesnt change the nature >of the music or where it stands in relation to the rest of hip >hop.
if a tree falls in the forest...?
>so maybe hip hop could >never have its punk.
it's possible.
>either way, its always difficult, maybe never a great thing to >place rock timelines/expectations on other genres, even if hip >hop resembles rock in so many other ways.
i actually agree. for the sake of Bombastic's question though, punk is a natural comparison to make. remember, we didn't have a grime type of movement here, we're still waiting for things to get more interesting. even underground rap just sounds like a league of wannabes.
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