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Subject: "WATCHMEN: Wanna find out about the squid? *SPOILER*" Previous topic | Next topic
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86673 posts
Mon Nov-17-08 05:37 PM

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"WATCHMEN: Wanna find out about the squid? *SPOILER*"


  

          

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It's not in the movie. Here's a report from Zack Snyder and Dave Gibbons speaking about the Watchmen movie in the UK. Many spoilers to follow.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/39131

"Greetings from over the pond…

On Friday I was lucky enough to attend what I believe was the first UK publicity event for Watchmen. They screened around 30 minutes of footage… if memory serves me correct this was the same three scenes that Moriarty reported on a while back… but the real points of interest came after the footage, where Zack Snyder & Dave Gibbons took the stage for a Q&A.

Before I dive into what was said & what shown I just thought I’d point out that I’ve read the graphic novel. I only read it for the first time around 12 months ago, but straight away it gripped me & stood out against almost everything else I had read. What struck me most was the sheer depth to it… the characters, the story, the history & the politics. Watchmen really is one of the most outstanding & rewarding novels that I’ve come across.

Zack introduced 3 segments of the film… the opening 10 minutes, Dr Manhattan on Mars & the rescuing of Rorschach. I know this footage has been covered in some detail on here before, but I just have to reiterate just how fantastic it all was.

What struck me the most was the feelings the scenes provoked, especially when you consider that they weren’t being played in order or with context. The segment of Dr Manhattan on Mars was possibly my favourite part of the novel, and the film perfectly captures its poetic rhythm. I had to almost pinch myself that I was actually seeing this on the Cinema… Manhattan narrating his life and considering the notion of time & existence. Everything in this scene worked… the visuals, acting, pacing & sound. I can imagine that in many hands this would have been exorcised from the script, but here it was in all its glory and it literally gave me goosebumps. This section was the perfect companion piece to the jailbreak, which was both exhilarating and exciting, a shot of pure adrenalin.

Best of all though was probably the opening scene, and in particular the title sequence. I know the titles have been lauded on here already, but I cannot stress enough how good they are. For those who don’t know, the titles basically provides a 6 minute history to the minutemen and the watchmen (as they are referred to in the film), all played out to the Bob Dylan classic ‘The Times They Are A-Changing’. I cannot think of a more creatively economical way that they could have done this… and it works perfectly to those who have read the novel as well as to those that are coming in cold. Seeing history being re-written infront of your eyes to fit in with the Watchmen universe is a great experience, and straight away makes you feel like you’re watching something special. I just wish I could watch it again now because there was so much detail to take in & so many bits that you can’t possibly take in on one viewing. And the choice of song… perfect.

After the footage Zack Snyder & Dave Gibbons took questions from the audience on stage, including one brilliantly dim guy who managed to insult 300 (a great way to kick things off). When discussing the film I thought Zack came across really well… quite a dry sense of humor and an obvious passion for the source material. Many of the questions fielded were fairly unremarkable, but there were some interesting bits which I’ve outlined below.

On being offered Watchmen:

Interestingly Zack talked about when he first received the call on Watchmen (I believe as he was editing 300). Apparently during that first conversation Warner Brothers told him about how they were going to modernize the story… no cold war, no 80s setting and no Richard Nixon. I think it’s important to acknowledge this image for a minute, especially when trying to debate the ins & outs of the upcoming adaptation. Now we don’t know what we have on our hands until March ’09 but everything so far strikes the right cord and I truly believe we could have something special… a Watchmen to live up to the novel. But that thought about what it could have been… a diluted imitation of a superior story… well it just makes me glad that Snyder got on board. People can, and probably will, nit pick this thing to death… but we’re going to get a film that is committed to the source material from a director that wants to bring the ‘unfilmable’ to life. The main thing I wanted from this was for it to feel like a Watchmen film. Remember that feeling when you watched Batman & Robin or LOEXG… that feeling like you were watching something you knew, but no longer recognized. Watchmen could have gone down this route… it could have lost it’s complexity, moral ambiguity and its soul… but it hasn’t. When Rorschach is on screen… well damn that’s Rorschach! Snyder has always insisted that he’s a massive fan of the graphic novel, and I really think this shines through in the footage that I saw.

He did also state about the initial pressure to bring this thing in as a PG-13, but that the studio has come around to the fact that it has to be an R (no doubt helped by the performance of 300).

The Squid: (Dave Gibbons reaction… ‘its not a squid, it’s a 5th dimensional being’)

Zack Snyder confirmed that the ending is the one seen in the recent test screenings. The ‘squid’ is definitely not in this thing… its not being hidden in a different ending… its gone… vanished… with the big calamari in the sky.

This has created a fair amount of debate for obvious reasons, but I have to say that I side with the filmmakers on this one. Zack came out with a good summary for its exclusion. He only has a finite amount of time to play this thing out in cinemas… roughly 2.5 hours. Now to include the squid would have meant sacrificing a lot of the character to story, there’s just not enough time to play it both ways. And Watchmen lives and dies by its characters… it’s the dilemmas that they face and the decisions they make… it’s what they come to learn about the world & their place within it… that helps make the novel what it is. The essence of the ending is still intact… the characters still go through more unless the same progressions that they did in the novel. At the end of the day the ‘squid’ is a means to an end… the filmmakers have gone down a slightly different route, but the overall picture is still the same.

Also it might not be something that fans want to consider, but this thing has to have a mass audience appeal and I don’t know if the majority of cinema-goers will buy the third act turning into Cloverfield 2. It sounds like Zack has gone into battle with the studio on a number of different things, and if the ‘squid’ is the sacrifice that needed to be made then so be it. I’d rather have a different mechanic within the films climax, then a PG-13 or modern day Watchmen. Dave Gibbons was in absolute support of this decision as well… he stated how this has been the best film project that he’s worked on to date & that the most important thing was to maintain the integrity of the graphic novel, something that has been done.

Whilst we’re on the ending…. They also confirmed that the final scene is the same as the novel with regards to Rorschach’s journal being found.

Watchmen & mainstream audiences

Zack was asked the question that many people are wondering ‘how will this play to unsuspecting audiences… do you think they are ready for it?’

He came out with something along the lines of…

‘People have got complacent. Sure they like to see something safe like Spiderman, but people are always waiting for it to be taken to new level. The Dark Knight was like a poke in the eye, but this will really shake their shit up’.

Now there’s no denying that Watchmen is a difficult sell, and I’m sure there will be a lot of people who just don’t ‘get it’… but it was reassuring to see how much faith Zack has in the ability of the source material to find an audience. He brought up Superman, saying ‘I always wondered if you had these powers, how far would you take it? I mean it’s all good flying around putting out fires, but wouldn’t you just go & grab all the political leaders, put them In a room, and force them to sort their shit out?’. To Snyder it seemed like Watchmen was all about that question… about how far Veidt was willing to take things & the impact this had on the other characters & their pre-conceptions of heroism. It turned the idea of the villain onto its head & into a moral dilemma. How do you define the term villain? Is someone a villain because of a course of action? Or could inaction, the failure to take responsibility, be just as critical to the world en mass? Zack seems to be hoping that the questions & the ambiguities of Watchmen play well with audiences, that they won’t mind having their intelligence tackled as they eat their popcorn. We will have to wait until next March to see if that happens, but I really hope that he’s right.

The DVD

Snyder also discussed the DVD at some length. As well as the theatrical cut there is to be a 3.5 hour version that incorporates the novels ‘comic within a comic’, The Black Freighter. This will take the form of animated segments ala Kill Bill.

He also noted that they are creating a documentary based around Hollis Mason’s ‘Under The Hood’ memoirs for the DVD release.

In many respects I’m looking forward to the DVD more then the film because it’s going to be such a rewarding experience having the full spectrum of the novel brought to life.

I know you can’t judge a film from 30 minutes of footage and there is a chance that the filmmakers could drop the ball, but from what I saw this thing is in good hands. It really did feel like the pages of the novel were appearing before me on the cinema screen & the emotions that I felt when I read Watchmen were the same ones I experienced in the Cinema on Friday. It doesn’t matter what I or anyone else says… this thing will be debated through & through such is the level of fan-dom. I’ve tried to refrain from too much hyperbole in this write up… but to hell with it… I think Synder’s Watchmen is going to be incredible. In years to come when you’ve watched it umpteen times on DVD I don’t think you’re going to look back and think of things like the ‘squid’… I think you’re just going to remember how much it kicked your arse when you saw it come to life in the Cinema. I can’t wait… roll on March.

If you use this call me Jack Carter"

Thoughts, PTP?

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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WATCHMEN: Wanna find out about the squid? *SPOILER* [View all] , Frank Longo, Mon Nov-17-08 05:37 PM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: WATCHMEN: Wanna find out about the squid? *SPOILER*
Nov 17th 2008
1
Newsarama Swipe
Nov 18th 2008
27
      Commenter tfg made the perfect pro-squid argument (swipe)
Nov 19th 2008
76
Dude's plea copping is kind of ridiculous. ***SPOILERS***
Nov 17th 2008
2
Agreed that it's plea copping. However...
Nov 17th 2008
3
As said in another post...
Nov 17th 2008
4
I like this explanation for why the squid might not work:
Nov 17th 2008
5
and there you have it -- the rest is just nitpicking
Nov 17th 2008
7
Then what? Comedian's going to see the nuke map?
Nov 18th 2008
25
Uh, the squid's presence takes more than two minutes
Nov 18th 2008
33
      Veidt's gotta explain, then, how he's framing Manhattan
Nov 18th 2008
63
           RE: Veidt's gotta explain, then, how he's framing Manhattan
Nov 18th 2008
65
                No, sir, I don't like it.
Nov 18th 2008
66
                     yup..the whole point of Laurie being there is lost
Nov 18th 2008
71
I think thats the point
Nov 18th 2008
29
I don't think it's a man-made weapon. I think he's gonna frame
Nov 18th 2008
34
      See above on Jon's character
Nov 19th 2008
72
EXACTLY. CHUUURCH
Nov 18th 2008
30
      RE: EXACTLY. CHUUURCH
Nov 18th 2008
39
           Blue man is going to probably have at least 30-45 minutes worth
Nov 18th 2008
42
                RE: Blue man is going to probably have at least 30-45 minutes worth
Nov 18th 2008
46
                     In this case I don't think it's too stupid
Nov 18th 2008
51
                          see, this was my arguement below
Nov 18th 2008
60
                          RE: In this case I don't think it's too stupid
Nov 18th 2008
68
I guess I don't see why the squid is so sacred
Nov 17th 2008
6
      It's not that the Squid is sacred......
Nov 17th 2008
9
           exactly
Nov 17th 2008
10
           RE: exactly
Nov 17th 2008
15
                I think it will be an even more powerful statement...
Nov 17th 2008
18
           It's not gonna be a bomb.
Nov 18th 2008
35
                that sucks too
Nov 18th 2008
43
                     even if he blows up NY?
Nov 18th 2008
45
                          hmmm
Nov 18th 2008
49
I'm wary of filmmakers claiming their audience won't accept something...
Nov 17th 2008
17
      true but there are so many narrow minded people
Nov 17th 2008
19
           "Cuts had to be made" doesn't fly
Nov 17th 2008
20
           RE: true but there are so many narrow minded people
Nov 18th 2008
26
           Thank you
Nov 18th 2008
28
           RE: Thank you
Nov 18th 2008
40
           i know it wasn't a cut he made. i never said that
Nov 18th 2008
37
           People are narrow minded until they see something new.
Nov 18th 2008
48
well it wasn't Zack that said it was a "sacrifice"
Nov 18th 2008
32
      RE: well it wasn't Zack that said it was a "sacrifice"
Nov 18th 2008
41
I'm a squid fan...but not having it isn't a dealbreaker
Nov 17th 2008
8
the people will unite behind their hatred of Dr. Manhattan
Nov 18th 2008
36
      see above
Nov 18th 2008
44
i'm looking forward to the DVD more than the theatrical release.
Nov 17th 2008
11
Dr. manhattan.
Nov 18th 2008
38
Was Cloverfield really that popular?
Nov 17th 2008
12
i think people still remember the disappointment/befuddlement
Nov 17th 2008
13
The Host murdered that movie for me.....
Nov 17th 2008
14
      but...they *did* bite the dust
Nov 18th 2008
22
i said this in the trailer post but yeah, i'm not trippin about it
Nov 17th 2008
16
i gotta be honest. i thought the squid was weird too.
Nov 17th 2008
21
I can live without the squid
Nov 18th 2008
23
Copied and pasted as I said before
Nov 18th 2008
24
Nah, I disagree
Nov 18th 2008
31
What if they blow up Moscow, England, Tokyo, AND NYC
Nov 18th 2008
47
RE: What if they blow up Moscow, England, Tokyo, AND NYC
Nov 18th 2008
50
      Exactly
Nov 18th 2008
52
      I don't know tho. Look at Hiroshima
Nov 18th 2008
53
           yeah -- WWII sure put an end to nuclear threats!
Nov 18th 2008
54
           Ha, what Im saying is we created something to end the world
Nov 18th 2008
56
           RE: I don't know tho. Look at Hiroshima
Nov 18th 2008
55
           I'm not really following you
Nov 18th 2008
57
                Yeah, its kinda shaky i admit
Nov 18th 2008
58
      exactly, Dr. Manhattan doing it wouldn't be sufficient at all
Nov 18th 2008
59
I have no idea what ya'll are talking about... that being said
Nov 18th 2008
61
don't feel bad..
Nov 18th 2008
62
Hypothetical Solution?: Veidt Made the Squid
Nov 18th 2008
64
That's not hypothetical, that's what happened
Nov 18th 2008
67
      No I think he means Veidt makes it all himself
Nov 19th 2008
73
           No. He's right.
Nov 19th 2008
74
Does anyone notice that Heroes..
Nov 18th 2008
69
Yup. Also remember that Sylar was a watchmaker.
Nov 18th 2008
70
I think the respective events in Heroes and Watchmen are based on this.....
Nov 19th 2008
75

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