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Lobby Pass The Popcorn topic #204747

Subject: "that's so facile. I'm ashamed of you." This topic is locked.
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janey
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Thu Aug-10-06 02:07 PM

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16. "that's so facile. I'm ashamed of you."
In response to In response to 14


  

          

If you do something and you know that it will have a given effect, even if that given effect was not your *main* purpose in doing the thing, you can't be said to be entirely innocence of the second effect.

My downstairs neighbor played her music at top volume at times ranging from 1 to 3 AM on weeknights. I *finally* got her to turn it down some, and at one point she said to me very haughtily, "I never intended to disturb you."

Well, obviously, she wasn't playing the music so loudly that it would wake me up and vibrate my floors ONLY in order to wake me up and vibrate my floors. Obviously she was doing it in order to have a more thorough experience of the music herself. But since she knew that it would wake me up and vibrate my floors, didn't she have a responsibility to moderate the volume?

That's what I mean about the double effect.

If Stone knows that jingoistic emotions will be roused by his film, and if he knows that the result of those emotions has in the past been a war of aggression on people not involved in the events of September 2001, how much responsibility does he bear if his film has the effect that I (and doubtless others) expect? How much innocence can he claim or can you claim on his behalf, if enquiring minds can already connect the dots?

  

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True or False: Art can change minds. [View all] , janey, Thu Aug-10-06 12:47 PM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
Can music teach/elevate/change the world?
Aug 10th 2006
1
true or false, huh?
Aug 10th 2006
2
*sigh,* you're right
Aug 10th 2006
4
OK, who's the mental midget who voted yellow?
Aug 10th 2006
3
lol, yellow is just another way of saying that art is elitist
Aug 10th 2006
6
I gave my reason below nm
Aug 10th 2006
9
bignick, did you vote?
Aug 10th 2006
11
I voted red.
Aug 10th 2006
14
     
           RE: that's so facile. I'm ashamed of you.
Aug 10th 2006
26
           Boy, you really think Stone's an idiot, don't you?
Aug 10th 2006
33
                Naw I'm starting 2 think he might've ran over your dog or som'n
Aug 10th 2006
36
                     Double effect.
Aug 10th 2006
39
                          The May effect
Aug 10th 2006
43
                          that's one HELL of a can of worms though
Aug 10th 2006
45
           Janey, that's total and complete bullshit.
Aug 10th 2006
29
                No, your argument that he bears no responsibility for his product is bul...
Aug 10th 2006
32
                     again: what about the audience's responsibility?
Aug 10th 2006
46
                     film is a director's medium
Aug 10th 2006
47
                          I'm not saying Stone bears no responsibility
Aug 10th 2006
48
                               baby we were *always* cool
Aug 10th 2006
49
                     Janey, your entire argument is a bullshit hypothetical.
Aug 15th 2006
62
In defense of Yellow:
Aug 10th 2006
19
as an addendum to red:
Aug 10th 2006
5
absolutely
Aug 10th 2006
8
I'm a bit undecided on this issue
Aug 10th 2006
7
well said
Aug 10th 2006
10
yep, that's why I went with Yellow
Aug 10th 2006
12
Wrong.
Aug 10th 2006
15
      let's repeat this one for emphasis
Aug 10th 2006
21
      RE: Wrong.
Aug 10th 2006
31
This is absolutely ridiculous.
Aug 10th 2006
13
      RE: This is absolutely ridiculous.
Aug 10th 2006
17
           Disagreed.
Aug 10th 2006
30
                that sounds a little vague and wishy-washy
Aug 10th 2006
34
                     Regardless of how it sounds, it's still true.
Aug 10th 2006
38
                          Exactly. S.H.I.T. University may be a shitty premise for a movie, but i...
Aug 10th 2006
40
I went with the first choice
Aug 10th 2006
18
yeah, this poll got really political really quickly
Aug 10th 2006
20
      what is the world but a big bunch of minds?
Aug 10th 2006
22
           yes, Welcome to Planet Earth, a Big Bunch of Minds
Aug 10th 2006
23
                it's not a Bunch of Big Minds, that's for sure
Aug 10th 2006
25
I think it can influence minds, don't know about change minds
Aug 10th 2006
24
It can, but it wont necessarily always do so.
Aug 10th 2006
27
an influence IS a change
Aug 10th 2006
28
      good point. n/m
Aug 11th 2006
51
Here are some selected Oliver Stone quotes
Aug 10th 2006
35
He seems to be contradicting himself
Aug 10th 2006
41
Let's hear it for visual art!!!
Aug 10th 2006
37
do you think you can know the effect it will likely have, though?
Aug 10th 2006
42
      No but based on experience
Aug 10th 2006
44
A.F.A.S.
Aug 11th 2006
50
I voted red
Aug 11th 2006
52
Art has changed my perspective on so many things.
Aug 11th 2006
53
performance art...yes...Visual art, no way
Aug 11th 2006
54
RE: performance art...yes...Visual art, no way
Aug 14th 2006
56
No, that's just my opinion
Aug 17th 2006
66
boo this man
Aug 14th 2006
58
      or you could just bore me to death with a painting
Aug 17th 2006
67
RE: True or False: Art can change minds.
Aug 14th 2006
55
not sure what you're saying here
Aug 14th 2006
59
      RE: Art can influence not change minds
Aug 15th 2006
64
           RE: Art can influence not change minds
Aug 15th 2006
65
                RE: Art can influence not change minds
Aug 18th 2006
68
The bottom line, whichever "yes" color you picked, is "yes."
Aug 14th 2006
57
for me the argument is 'How significant of a change'
Aug 14th 2006
60
wow this thread reaks of homoness
Aug 15th 2006
61
wow this reply reaks of ignorance
Aug 15th 2006
63
Hm.
Aug 18th 2006
69
I agree with everything except visual art.
Aug 19th 2006
70

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