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thebigfunk
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10457 posts
Tue Dec-29-20 02:42 PM

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126. "on D'Angelo"
In response to In response to 56
Tue Dec-29-20 02:42 PM by thebigfunk

          

>And while I like D'Angelo I never really took to his stuff,
>although I liked Black Messiah more than I thought I would.
>
>To me both artists are genius in their craftsmanship more than
>their ability to break 'new' ground with their music or
>subject matter.
>
>I consider a genius to create a *new* way to organize music or
>a new way to contextualize music.

This distinction is really murky though for at least two reasons. First, "new" is incredibly ambiguous when it comes to musical creation. It's of course subjective to the listener (what is new and radical to one may not seem new or radical to another) but more than that, "new and iconoclastic" exists in this strangely immeasurable space. Totally random but I am reminded of a quote from a religious historian, "... the shift from orthodoxy to heresy may be no more than a shift of emphasis." Which is to say that the new can be far more subtle than we expect even if its effects, in the short or long term, are extensive and unprecedented. We notice the new that is explosive, obvious but that does not describe all things new.

(And why our obsession with new-ness as some criteria for brilliance and greatness? That is another post.)

All that said... I've given my take on what makes D truly unique in my mind before but I'll give a quick version here. I am speaking here mainly of the innovations that come w/Voodoo and later expanded on by Black Messiah. D's uniqueness is about a total inversion of what we expect in vocals.

In music we normally expect a clear melody with harmonies playing a supportive role in the background, or at least a definable leading line. D has not wholly forsaken this - there's still often a leading melodic line - but even from an early point, with Brown Sugar, he's challenged and rethought the way vocals are traditionally structured. It's not even that he's simply inverted them, emphasizing harmony over melody (although this is part of it). He actually scrambles the entire melodic/harmonic project and makes the whole collection of layered vocals the thing, and those layered vocals are never a static thing -- they are very frequently themselves moving, rarely repeating themselves, shifting/swapping parts and emphases, etc.

This is why it's often hard to hum with a song on Voodoo or Black Messiah straight through... if there is a melody, it's at one point or another pushed back into the muddy waters of vocal harmonics that he's built layer by layer. One Mo Gin is a good example of this, where it actually has a pretty clear melodic line in the verses but the chorus is just this dense cluster of voices that sort of/kind of has a melody but on the other hand doesn't at all... instead it has layered moving vocals that *suggest* a melody but never fulfill it, never flesh it out or highlight it. The Root is another good example.

This is why the muddiness of D's lyrics actually make sense to me conceptually. That muddiness/mumbling actually tracks in some ways to how far D has pushed this aspect of his vocals... several tracks on Black Messiah are, to me, even more radical in this regard than Voodoo, and you can't make out half of what he's saying on that album at all lol.

This isn't without precedent. I think we think of Prince when we hear D's dense vocal layers and he does a bit of this vocal inversion but it was never a hallmark for him, almost more incidental (think of the vocals on the closing refrain of "Condition of the Heart"). Riot/Fresh-era Sly is closer imo (think the vocals on Just Like a Baby); a lot of p-funk vocals too. But again, D centers this approach to his entire aesthetic. It's arguably his music's most definable and defining characteristic and I think he pushes it much further than others have. (It might also be the most misunderstood, or at least underappreciated, for reasons that I won't go into here...)

I'll stop there even though I kind of want to talk about this all day... lol. I don't think it's mere craftsmanship though. I think there's a lot of vision behind it - conscious or unconscious - and is why his music in some ways is unlike anything else. It's extremely unorthodox and pushes his music into territory bordering on the avant-garde if you listen to it from a certain perspective.

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

  

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Unpopular music opinions you got revisited. [View all] , normal35762, Thu Dec-10-20 03:43 AM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
Efil4zaggin is better than Str8 Outta Compton
Dec 10th 2020
1
Yea it is, production-wise no question.
Dec 10th 2020
7
That's what it is.
Dec 12th 2020
39
definitely better
Jan 15th 2021
182
In God We Trust is better than One For All.
Dec 10th 2020
2
while we’re at it... Foundation is their best album
Dec 10th 2020
5
^^^ This is absolutely true.
Dec 10th 2020
6
Been re-listening to One For All a lot and... nah.
Dec 10th 2020
17
"in god we trust" gets my vote
Dec 26th 2020
92
"De La Soul is dead" - that title had an effect on the music within the ...
Dec 10th 2020
3
Explain plz.
Dec 10th 2020
8
      Making a record with the mentality (title) of calling yourself "dead"...
Dec 10th 2020
9
           Hm OK. Is there confirmation that they decided on the title first ?
Dec 10th 2020
11
                The confirmation they had that mentality (thrust/title/theme) in mind is
Dec 10th 2020
13
                     OK OK. But wouldn't what you just said torpedo your original point ? Hah...
Dec 10th 2020
18
                          New album > new chance to refresh
Dec 10th 2020
19
Justin Bieber is a great Pop Artist
Dec 10th 2020
4
I beg to differ
Jan 09th 2021
166
      Hardcore fans? Bieber is like the #2 most streamed artist. LOL.
Jan 15th 2021
180
           He’s like #2 with Twitter follows lol
Jan 15th 2021
181
Neo-Soul killing itself was fucking stupid.
Dec 10th 2020
10
Agree !!
Dec 10th 2020
12
I'm interested in this... what are the defining characteristics of NeoSo...
Dec 10th 2020
15
and then errybody wanted to capture the sound of 60s motown
Dec 11th 2020
24
So sad and true
Jan 09th 2021
167
Songs In The Key Of Life is too long.
Dec 10th 2020
14
This Hotter than July
Dec 11th 2020
21
RE: This Hotter than July
Dec 12th 2020
43
I Think It's Good Considering How Many Songs He Recorded For It
Dec 11th 2020
22
Nigculela is uncuttable fam
Dec 11th 2020
25
this blasphemy is intolerable!
Jan 15th 2021
179
      I actually LOVE those songs.
Jan 16th 2021
184
the cult of some acts often outgrows the talent and catalog
Dec 10th 2020
16
I think in the cases of those bands...
Dec 10th 2020
20
RE: the cult of some acts often outgrows the talent and catalog
Dec 14th 2020
54
The Beatles are over rated.
Dec 11th 2020
23
FIXED: The Beatles ALBUMS are over rated.
Dec 11th 2020
28
Yep agreed.
Dec 11th 2020
31
      Their strength was their weakness IMO
Dec 12th 2020
34
No...but I'll say this
Dec 12th 2020
35
You like Ob-La-Di???
Dec 12th 2020
36
Lol yeah
Dec 12th 2020
38
People rain on Sgt. Pepper's nowadays
Dec 12th 2020
37
The Beatles are the white canon
Dec 15th 2020
63
Not to dismiss the obvious racism...but I think my issue is more in line
Dec 15th 2020
65
Interesting take but it wasn't that deep
Dec 27th 2020
94
      I agree but I think the point is that the lionization is overboard.
Dec 27th 2020
103
      Yeah I see what you're saying
Dec 28th 2020
110
           LOL - I'm a fan too, just for the record.
Dec 28th 2020
112
      It absolutely is that "deep."
Dec 29th 2020
117
RE: The Beatles are over rated.
Dec 29th 2020
133
yeah, I don't get it
Jan 15th 2021
183
all outkast albums have filler and a couple of eh songs
Dec 11th 2020
26
Most.....ATLiens is the exception
Dec 14th 2020
60
There's none.
Dec 15th 2020
66
not sure if filler is the right word
Dec 15th 2020
68
      Yoooooooo...this man is INSANE!
Dec 15th 2020
72
      Yeah.....I really don’t agree
Dec 27th 2020
98
I wouldn't say 'filler' but they never really mastered the art of sequen...
Dec 22nd 2020
90
      But you just defined 'filler'
Jan 09th 2021
170
      that's not what 'filler' is though
Jan 14th 2021
177
      Can you give examples of when this happens?
Jan 14th 2021
178
           that's pretty much what I'm talking about
Jan 18th 2021
185
DJ Quik's production/rhyming does nothing for me
Dec 11th 2020
27
it isn't mediocre at all
Dec 11th 2020
30
Haha exactly.
Dec 11th 2020
32
I don't think he actually IS mediocre.
Dec 11th 2020
33
      this is what you should have said initially
Dec 12th 2020
42
He doesn't razzle and dazzle
Dec 27th 2020
95
Scarface’s The Diary is overrated
Dec 11th 2020
29
To me that's his best album.
Dec 12th 2020
40
Took my reply.
Dec 12th 2020
41
I wish he had stayed in Mr Scarface Is Back mode forever
Dec 13th 2020
44
never got into Dilla beats like that
Dec 13th 2020
45
Your thoughts on Dilla explain your D'Angelo thoughts
Dec 13th 2020
46
RE: Your thoughts on Dilla explain your D'Angelo thoughts
Dec 13th 2020
47
      I feel you on that Dilla.
Dec 13th 2020
52
Same here with Dilla
Dec 14th 2020
56
I find this part interesting.
Dec 18th 2020
74
Great breakdown - I agree.
Dec 18th 2020
80
this is a really thoughtful take
Dec 29th 2020
125
      Agreed on all of this.
Dec 29th 2020
128
jay dee had the potential to be one of the best R&B producers eva
Dec 22nd 2020
91
      Voodoo and Black Messiah are both....just okay
Dec 28th 2020
113
           like a theme of this post - Quik, Dilla - a person has to be "open" to....
Dec 28th 2020
114
                I can get with this....but I'm also pretty yay or nay and don't change l...
Dec 28th 2020
116
                     I love that Brown Sugar and Voodoo get this response
Dec 29th 2020
119
                          THE WHOLE DECADE? lmao from 2000-2010?! Jesus Cristo
Dec 29th 2020
121
                               LOL yea that's one hell of a statement.
Dec 29th 2020
122
                               Absolutely.
Dec 29th 2020
124
                                    That’s the list you came up with?
Dec 29th 2020
127
                                         Anytime I get to listing albums on here..
Dec 29th 2020
129
                                              this really comes down to personal preference
Jan 04th 2021
160
                                                   Ha!
Jan 04th 2021
161
                                                        just saw this reply. absolutely facinating
Jan 11th 2021
172
Aliyah barely had any talent...
Dec 13th 2020
48
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dec 13th 2020
49
Nah...she rip songs from her first album all the way to her last
Dec 13th 2020
50
She definitely had talent.
Dec 14th 2020
53
      Not mad at that...
Dec 14th 2020
55
      She could sing in the way that Janet could sing
Dec 14th 2020
57
I have to listen to reggae in small doses.
Dec 13th 2020
51
I don't see the appeal of reggaeton
Dec 14th 2020
58
Not sure I've read or heard the word "reggaeton" in 6+ years.
Dec 14th 2020
59
Boot Camp >>>> Wu-Tang
Dec 14th 2020
61
Curious as to how?
Dec 15th 2020
64
RE: Curious as to how?
Dec 15th 2020
67
      RE: Curious as to how?
Dec 15th 2020
69
           Forgot about that Pete/Smif N Wessun album!
Dec 15th 2020
70
                Say what say what say what...I said My Timbz Do Work!
Dec 15th 2020
71
P!
Jan 04th 2021
163
THOSE 3 songs should have been cut from streams of thought vol 3
Dec 15th 2020
62
Rza is the best MC from Wu Tang
Dec 18th 2020
73
^^^And the winner of the “I want to be different” award goes to...
Dec 18th 2020
75
I laughed.
Dec 18th 2020
79
      RE: I laughed.
Dec 19th 2020
82
           RZA sounds the same on every single verse LOL
Dec 19th 2020
83
Inspectah Deck is the best MC from Wu-Tang
Dec 19th 2020
85
Obviously Raekwon
Dec 27th 2020
96
The main 5 MCs all have their own strength
Dec 27th 2020
101
I love the Bobby Digital Albums probably more than the
Dec 29th 2020
118
The concept of the Black Album was a lot better than the execution
Dec 18th 2020
76
Absolutely agree
Dec 18th 2020
77
Wait what was the concept ?
Dec 18th 2020
81
Yeah that’s what I meant - 12 tracks, 12 producers
Dec 19th 2020
84
Oh word yea - I agree.
Dec 21st 2020
87
I never thought Jay would go through with that.
Dec 21st 2020
86
      RE: I never thought Jay would go through with that.
Dec 21st 2020
88
           RE: I never thought Jay would go through with that.
Dec 22nd 2020
89
It's the beats
Dec 27th 2020
97
      That’s because he ALWAYS followed trends
Dec 27th 2020
99
           Don't forget 4:44 - emo beats
Dec 27th 2020
102
           RE: That’s because he ALWAYS followed trends
Dec 29th 2020
123
                Yea I had a few beefs w/that analysis.
Dec 29th 2020
130
                RE: Yea I had a few beefs w/that analysis.
Dec 29th 2020
131
                     Yea Doe or Die I wasn't really gonna argue haha.
Dec 29th 2020
134
                          I guess but...Shawn Carter to Jay-Z damn you on Jaz...
Dec 29th 2020
135
                               Oh yea - you won't get much argument from me that Jay has a history.
Dec 29th 2020
136
                                    The main trend be set was...
Dec 29th 2020
138
                                         He killed jerseys
Dec 29th 2020
139
                                              RE: He killed autotune as well
Dec 29th 2020
140
                What was the single?
Dec 29th 2020
132
RE: Unpopular music opinions you got revisited.
Dec 18th 2020
78
give me janet over michael
Dec 26th 2020
93
I’m with you
Dec 29th 2020
137
Ready To Die is not a Top 5 album of 1994
Dec 27th 2020
100
* opens iTunes *
Dec 27th 2020
104
Damn...and you didn’t even name Kast or Common
Dec 27th 2020
105
Forgot both.
Dec 29th 2020
120
I came in Ready To D....isagree
Dec 27th 2020
106
Blowout Comb doesn’t get the credit it deserves
Dec 27th 2020
107
      For me the only definite is 1.Main Ingredient 2. Illmatic
Dec 27th 2020
108
Damn what a list
Dec 28th 2020
109
      I need to check that out again
Dec 28th 2020
111
           Black Sheep Non Fiction
Dec 28th 2020
115
                I still cannot get into Non Fiction
Dec 30th 2020
142
                     I love that shit
Jan 03rd 2021
156
                          Non-Fiction gets hate cause it wasn't Wolf.
Jan 03rd 2021
157
not even close to it, either
Dec 31st 2020
143
reading all these posts, GAH DAMN y'all niggas have some wild takes LOL
Dec 30th 2020
141
Prince is CORNY
Dec 31st 2020
144
NY State Of Mind Pt 2 > NY State Of Mind
Dec 31st 2020
145
I hate sequels but yea - that song goes hard.
Jan 01st 2021
148
Yep
Jan 11th 2021
174
Apparently some people think SD50 production was good?
Dec 31st 2020
146
Fetch the Bolt Cutters was...meh
Jan 01st 2021
147
Gift of Gab is one of the GOATs
Jan 01st 2021
149
I agree with this. I love Gab so much.
Jan 01st 2021
150
i love gab too
Jan 04th 2021
159
Cuban Linx album artwork is complete garbage
Jan 02nd 2021
151
You fuckin crazy
Jan 02nd 2021
152
I won't say it's garbage but it's not good.
Jan 03rd 2021
154
You guys have got to be fucking joking
Jan 03rd 2021
155
      Think he means it’s not as garbage as chronic or ready to die
Jan 03rd 2021
158
Its fucking iconic man
Jan 04th 2021
164
Soul On Ice is not a good album
Jan 03rd 2021
153
RE: Soul On Ice is not a good album
Jan 09th 2021
168
      RE: Soul On Ice is not a good album
Jan 09th 2021
169
JC was the real star of N'Sync
Jan 04th 2021
162
Big L's debut was trash
Jan 04th 2021
165
He was talented and it was horribly sad that he passed
Jan 09th 2021
171
I definitely wouldn’t say trash
Jan 11th 2021
173
Jadakiss and Styles P are overrated
Jan 13th 2021
175
Agreed
Jan 13th 2021
176

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