>In the long run, it's having more impact in other ways. It was
>one of those things that jump started more than people
>realize, and it came from out of nowhere. And once again, I
>said it was the "Best thing"...mainly about what came after,
>not about the music, or even how important it is when you look
>through the years and say "what were the most important songs,
>artists, albums"...just the change in gears from the Gangsta
>shit we were known for, which became cliche and even
>negative...to a COMPLETELY new attitude and change in
>culture.

I would agree with you if there was something more substantive there beyond the 1 song per artist look that all of those cats got. To me for something to leave a significant and lasting imprint it has to go further than just 1 song. Even if it were something like back when Kid N Play blew up I'd buy this argument because Kid N Play not only had a decent to solid album beyond just one song but they also expanded into movies that EVERYONE enjoyed. No matter how hardcore you claimed to be everyone enjoyed at least the first couple of House Party movies. Jerkin never did anything like that. That Mario Van Peebles movie was supposed to be that and that shit was so God awful that most people never even saw it. I actually wish they could have carved a little fun niche out of it but in the end I don't believe they did and they will forever be looked at as a gimmick.
>
>Even with Chronic, people were already paying attention to
>L.A. Rap, at least halfway....so that made them say
>"OH......." and Doggystyle followed that as to solidify that
>we were here. But the eyes were already on us, if that makes
>since. In 2007, 2008, commercial heads were paying zero
>attention to anything L.A. aside from The Game, Snoop,
>basically a few big names and that was it.

But the difference with the Chronic and I would argue Death Certificate as well is that there was still a lot of resistance to LA. You had the backlash against NWA, Tim Dog with "Fuck Compton" and still just an overall vibe that "them dudes over there is wack". People may have been paying attention but I would say the Chronic is the album that broke the door down to where it not only got major play on the radio on the East Coast but it was an album that was a must have on the street level. Doggystyle like you said followed and then that's when you could argue that the West took over but all of that shit that came after was much more significant than Jerkin ever was. Think about all of the post Chronic releases from Dogg Pound to Pac. Those things made a huge impact on the street level and the mainstream level.
>
>With Westside Connection, they made great music that we loved,
>but that actually started dividing fans of West Coast music
>and East Coast...even The South. It was the blatant, in your
>face, "This is the West, fuck who don't like it, fuck what you
>think is dope" and that for sure didn't get love everywhere,
>even though folks respected the attitude.

When Westside Connection hit things were taken to another level and you had Mack and WC leaving their own mark. I actually think that influenced the Midwest and the South to also have an attitude of fuck you this is where I'm from and I'm not apologizing for it. At that time the East Coast was still in many ways setting the tone for all things Hip Hop and while I think it may have alienated some NY fans I also think there there was a certain amount of respect for the whole attitude like you mentioned. NY is all about attitude and one thing I've always believed is that even if they don't like you if you tell them to fuck off to some degree they respected that more than a lot of the pandering that had gone on. We're talking more than 15 years ago and people are still yelling "Weeessiiidee" a la Cube. All of those dudes had some level of star quality. Most people couldn't really name one person directly linked to Jerkin. I think that says it all.

>He had huge impact for HIMSELF...but what did it do for L.A.
>and L.A's rappers? That's the point of it. And G. Malone was
>originally BWS, not to name drop but I was part of the camp
>then, and thought it had potential between Malone, Black
>Friday, Billboard before his death..and then Techniec,
>Eastwood, etc. BWS was supposed to literally be the West Coast
>G-Unit, and absolutely NOTHING came from it. And no other L.A.
>artists were put on. So fans outside here loved Game, and may
>have heard a few tracks from the other artists via mixtapes,
>but none of them even had the chance to flop by dropping an
>album.

I agree with you here but I think that was more because none of those artists could actually deliver anything that people wanted to hear. They didn't take advantage of the ear that Game had. Eastwood had been around for a while and IMO never could deliver a decent song or present a picture of who he was as an artist. I also blame Game for this to a certain degree. When The Documentary came out I thought he missed an opportunity to really bring the West back because when you listen to the album it never truly felt like a West Coast album. All of the 50 Cent appearances, Em, Yayo. There was something from everywhere except LA on that album. I always thought he should have had at least one song with a bunch of the Black Wall Street dudes on there to give them that introduction. I also thought that album should have had way more West Coast producers on it. No way that album should have come out without at least a couple of beats from Quik, Battlecat or even DJ Khalil.

>Jerkin itself didn't create a positive perception exactly,
>it's all about what it lead to, which sounds wild but I see
>how it did..I don't think it was just a coincidence that right
>after Jerkin died, people outside of L.A. were paying
>attention to Dom Kennedy, TDE/Kendrick, Odd Future, and
>everyone else. What it did was told L.A. rappers, "f'k being
>local...whether you're dancing like us making BS records or
>rapping...there's a whole WORLD out there that is available to
>us!" Even though the internet has helped rappers become big
>since the early 2000's...it had never worked for L.A. artists
>until this point.

See and I think it's because those artists had an interesting take on Hip Hop. I don't think Jerkin had anything to do with it. In fact if Odd Future, Dom and TDE had come out as full force as they later did I'd argue we may have never even had Jerkin.
>
>I agree that "Hip Hop" fans weren't into Jerkin, but as said,
>it was an age thing...there aren't many "Hip Hop" fans under
>the age of 25, if you ask me....BUT, what I realized is that
>these 15-25 year old kids tend to enjoy a bit of everything,
>and aren't as divided on some commercial/underground because
>technically, most of what they listen to is "Underground" in a
>sense that it's not just pushed by major labels, and is heard
>online before on local radio.

I disagree that there aren't that many Hip Hop fans under 25. All you need to do is head out to Rock The Bells or any of those damn shows in the desert that are primarily geared towards Hip Hop and see how big (and young) the audience is. Now you could argue that there aren't as many BLACK fans but tons of kids that age were listening to Hip Hop just not shit from LA because there wasn't a lot for them to really get into.
>
>>>
>>>I'll even go as far as to say that it busted the door wide
>>>open for Kendrick, Dom Kennedy, even Odd Future..because it
>>>was like "Yeah, we Jerk (ha..), we dance, BUT....check this
>>>out too!" and people were willing to listen. It's no
>>>coincidence that all these different styles here came out
>>>within the same few years...it was all connected.

To me that's like arguing that the success of Tyrese had something to do with Kendrick. Again I think these are totally different fan bases. Jerkin mainly appealed to girls and girls (in general) aren't going to be all into lyrics and flow etc. They just want to party and have a good time. Of course the guys will go along with it to a certain degree because they want to hang out with the girls but anytime you have something in Hip Hop that is too dedicated to the non Hip Hop no male core audience you're gonna have a hard time surviving or leaving a lasting positive impression.



>
>I kind of answered this in the previous response. And yeah, I
>know L.A. has always, always been way more diverse than people
>realize (part of what I showed on The Timeline)...but we
>became EXTREMELY stagnant. In the 2000's, everyone here and
>outside had the attitude that "to blow up from L.A., you HAVE
>TO go through Dr. Dre." We mention Game, but think about the
>failed L.A. artists who were supposed to come through Dre btwn
>Snoop and The Game...and how many of them even got ONE album
>out?

Oh yeah this has been a problem for years so we agree there. I think many of those artists made a mistake in now branching out on their own and establishing their own style of Hip Hop instead of waiting for someone from the NWA family tree to blow them up.
>
>So as said before...the Jerkin era didn't directly lead to
>Kendrick and all of them blowing up, but it did help break
>doors down...and let folks know that L.A. still had A Hip Hop
>scene. And I've even argued that Jerkin was as "true" to "Old
>School Hip Hop" than a lot of the more Underground or "Real
>Hip Hop" type music was...because it was dancing, and it's own
>culture, and high energy. Even if most of the music was
>horrid, cheap, made in bedrooms...it was a "do it yourself"
>attitude that was for once absorbed by a large number of
>people.

Oh I agree that Jerkin was in line with plenty of songs like "The Wop" by B Fats and "Pee Wee's Dance" by Joeski Love so no argument there. But like those artists they end up being footnotes for lack of having more than 1 song to ride on.
>
>Mims to Joey Badass is a huge huge huge stretch, and you know
>that. Mims was ONE artist with a South sounding hit in 2007.
>What would make a bit more sense is saying the Get Lite/Toe
>Wop style NY music lead to Joey Badass...which it didn't, but
>that was a whole style and culture, and I think that was slept
>on as well..it had potential.

My point with Mims to Joey is just to show how different Jerkin was to what Dom or TDE were and are doing. They share nothing in common other than general location so I think it's unfair to give them any credit for Kendrick blowing up. They are in completely different lanes. I'd give more credit to someone like Lupe Fiasco for opening the door for Kendrick than Cali Swag Movement.

>Having the President's wife doing a dance that you made big
>(yeah, Texas created it, but CSD MADE that dance big) is
>pretty huge to me. Yeah, they were all one hit wonders, but as
>said, it's about the impact that it had. You can't compare it
>to individual songs...it's about what it grew into.

But how is that helping Dom or Kendrick? Nobody looks at that and says oh they got something going on in Cali let's check out this kid Kendrick who sounds absolutely nothing like them. I think people are a lot more likely to go listen to the Texas and Atl snap stuff than search out Kendrick because those things are all similar.
>
>L.A. for sure isn't a small town...but I lived in Florida from
>2002-2008, and believe me, the perception of anything we made
>was LOW, low, very low. Even when The Game came, it was
>basically, "All y''all got is The Game." Even Hyphy and The
>Bay got some love in 05-06. So it felt like L.A. was even less
>important than places like Tampa Bay.
>
>DJ Mustard is now one of the top club producers out, Top 5 I'd
>say...and the West Coast sound is actually in the clubs now,
>which hasn't happened since the mid 90's, when artists like
>Adina Howard, Da Brat, and Biggie had songs with a West Coast
>influence. And his sound is a direct, 100% descendant of
>Jerkin.

Mustard is definitely the bastard child of Jerkin so we agree there.
>
>Before Jerkin...you would go to L.A. clubs, and could
>literally go 2-3 hours without hearing but 1-2 L.A. songs, IF
>that! After Jerkin, you may got 30 min, even a hour, ONLY
>hearing L.A. songs. That's a HUGE difference. And outside of
>L.A., you used to never, ever ever hear anything that wasn't
>90's Snoop/Dre/Pac in the club...now you may actually hear a
>YG, Problem, for sure Tyga, Ty Dolla Sign, maybe even a Joe
>Moses.

It will be interesting to see how long that lasts. Of course you want music from your region playing in your local club but you (or maybe I should say I) also want it to be quality and not just the latest fad.
>
>So as a whole, on top of everything already said...I think it
>finally represented a change in L.A. culture. Think about how
>The Game came in 2005, but was wearing shit that nobody in
>L.A. was REALLY wearing since the early 90's...even bangers
>weren't all chucks and khakis by 98. Kids here were more into
>dancing than banging for once, and it was represented. In
>2001-2004, the Clown/Krump culture was HUGE, and luckily we
>had Rize to document it...but there was ZERO music to go along
>with it that really got play, aside from J-Squad's tracks and
>those that you would hear in like "Stomp the yard." All of it
>was done to Just Blaze, Timbaland, Neptunes, and Lil Jon type
>beats...never to our own music, because that was only about
>bangin, and never about having fun.

This is true. I looked at Game and thought "damn you just stepped right out of Death Row in 96". It was so manufactured and had such a time stamp on it that's the other reason I don't think any of his artists caught on. When I would drive by Dorsey and Crenshaw NOBODY looked like that. None of my little cousins looked like that. Clown and Krump culture was bigger in my opinion and it was definitely a shame that there were no artists to break out of that to really blow up because that's the type of thing that I'm talking about as far as having a longer and more national impact than just a couple of one offs. If Tight Eyes or some of those cats could actually rhyme and make some good music? That shit would have been huge and respected at the same time because that felt more organic to me and more in lines with Hip Hop culture instead of just your typical disposable pop/rap song that disappears in a couple of years. In the end I hear where you're coming from especially since you're a DJ I just think it's a huge stretch to say that Jerkin was the most important thing to come from LA since The Chronic.