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Subject: "sure. warning: two part reply, lol." Previous topic | Next topic
thebigfunk
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Fri Dec-15-23 08:09 AM

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51. "sure. warning: two part reply, lol."
In response to In response to 49


          

i agree with that, to a point. i definitely think it is sometimes limited in its potential even by those who are heralding it (and thus sometimes unintentionally). and of course there are a lot of folks who think it a less serious art than X.

but I also think that rapping - as an act, as a thing that one does, and as a skill - is recognized as posing distinct *barriers* to folks wanting to seriously engage it, with three particularly large hurdles:

* it is recognized (by some at least) as having strong roots in a particular culture and thus somewhat taboo for outsiders to engage with seriously.

* it also generally carries certain characteristics, especially youthfulness but also certain elements of tone and presentation, that are perceived as bound up with the art. even if we imagine a musician who wants to try their hand at rapping.

So even if there is a musician who wants to engage rap, there are two big hurdles right there: *may* I do this in a serious way and not be dismissed as a culture vulture; *can* I do this, in terms of aesthetic, tone, and background and how those mesh with expectations in the art.

And I think that we see this in the way some who *respect* hip hop engage with it musically. To point to Glasper and the current wave of jazz-ish instrumentalists again, a lot of these players aren't learning to rap but are certainly engaging seriously with hip hop sound and history, incorporating it substantially into their work.

But to bring this back to Dre (I'm segue-ing to part 2 of this long response), let's not mix apples and oranges here. Rapping isn't the same as playing an instrument. You might learn saxophone and later jump to (trumpet/piano/guitar) to explore a new part of your art. There is a shared foundation that enables that and makes such translations possible.

Rapping is a very different musical skill, one that combines lyricism, rhythm, musicality, and of course vocal/physical technique. It doesn't have an analogue or a parallel --- there's no other "instrument" or skill in music that does this thing in this way. (We forget this!) Particularly the lyrical piece, right? That doesn't mean it isn't an instrument or can't be imagined as one. But it's complicated.

So that third hurdle, in a way, is this weird cognitive/categorical leap a musician would have to take to jump from saying "i am a trumpet player" to "I want rap, *seriously*" --- and certainly that it is different from, I don't know, a country star trying on heavy metal for an album or two.

In this sense, the jump Dre made here is layered:
* it's a genre jump, obviously
* it's sort of an instrument jump, in the sense that he put down rapping and picked up the flute
* but it's not an instrument jump at all, because I don't think rapping and playing an instrument

In the interviews I've read/listened to with Dre, I've always gotten the impression that it's less that Dre thinks rapping itself is limited and moreso that he isn't sure how to be himself/grown up in the context of the form.

Fair or not, it's an understandable fear. One of the biggest flaws in this run of Nas records we've been gifted with is that his subject matter appears diverse on the surface but is pretty limited when you get close up. Its version of aging seems to be... being more comfortable with comfort? But still feeling the need to shout out luxury brands? There's a lot of replaying of the past that feels limiting. The "introspection" provided is pretty superficial.

If you look at his features over the last few years, he's definitely been trying to thread the needle on rapping about older adult shit in interesting ways. (See his verse on that Anderson Paak track from Ventura.) But maybe what's successful to us doesn't seem successful to him?

Ok, rambling now, so I'll stop here.

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

  

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Andre 3k - New Blue Sun [View all] , las raises, Tue Nov-14-23 09:43 AM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
Alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll set.
Nov 14th 2023
1
Twitter is saying its going to be all flute. I have no problem
Nov 14th 2023
2
I'll take it, would I love am album of him rapping? Of course but oh wel...
Nov 14th 2023
6
WOAH
Nov 14th 2023
3
Yeah… I’m good on that
Nov 14th 2023
4
his My Life In The Bush Of Ghosts
Nov 14th 2023
5
This sounds like an Onion headline, but these are amazing collaborators
Nov 14th 2023
7
yeah
Nov 14th 2023
8
      With that said....
Nov 14th 2023
9
           RE: how did u know
Nov 16th 2023
10
                On first listen, I'd rank it below ATLiens but above Southernplayalistic
Nov 17th 2023
11
                     lulz
Nov 17th 2023
12
                          It's good for what it is.
Nov 17th 2023
13
                               RE: I mean, if you compare it to the great ambient stuff (e.g. Boards of...
Nov 21st 2023
22
                                    I think this is a categorical difference
Nov 22nd 2023
23
RE: I Saw the Name "Flautkast" on Social Media
Nov 17th 2023
14
Skimmed through it in about 2 minutes..
Nov 17th 2023
15
You are going to get absolutely nothing out of it that way.
Nov 17th 2023
17
Ha, Khrysis already has a beat up on his IG
Nov 17th 2023
18
i hope this doesn't happen
Nov 17th 2023
19
It's... fine. Perfectly servicavle background music
Nov 17th 2023
16
RE: It's... basically a paul horn album in 2023
Nov 19th 2023
20
the Vinyl costs $80, smh
Nov 21st 2023
21
Mr. Maxxx weighed in.
Nov 25th 2023
24
RE: Mr. Maxxx weighed in.
Nov 25th 2023
27
RE: Mr. Maxxx weighed in.
Nov 25th 2023
28
It's an oddly grounded and knowlesgable sounding review
Nov 26th 2023
29
      Agreed! I hope he’s doing well
Nov 26th 2023
31
Cool for meditation and writing while it rocks in the BG
Nov 25th 2023
25
This GQ interview is from his neighborhood in LA
Nov 25th 2023
26
Andre 3K pretty much dissed hip hop in that interview
Nov 26th 2023
30
I like the album, but I agree with 2 points here.
Nov 26th 2023
32
RE: Andre 3K pretty much dissed hip hop in that interview
Nov 26th 2023
33
      RE: I didn't take it as he thinks you can be too old to rap
Nov 26th 2023
34
      if the age stuff was only from this interview, I might view it as him
Nov 27th 2023
35
Do you feel that more hip hop cats should do more of this?
Nov 29th 2023
36
I think they should definitely branch out to do more things musically.
Nov 29th 2023
37
      RE: I think they should definitely branch out to do more things musicall...
Nov 30th 2023
38
           I think you are generalizing
Dec 01st 2023
39
He’s on Questlove Supreme this week.
Dec 13th 2023
40
Why drop a mediocre acoustic jazz album?
Dec 13th 2023
41
The Breakfast Club played a recent interview where...
Dec 13th 2023
42
why not?
Dec 13th 2023
43
Name one
Dec 14th 2023
45
      King Krule - indie rock
Dec 14th 2023
46
      RE: King Krule - indie rock
Dec 14th 2023
48
      This is rap?
Dec 15th 2023
50
      RE: Name one
Dec 14th 2023
47
           my point is that rap is looked down on as a lesser art
Dec 15th 2023
49
               
                *stands and claps.
Dec 15th 2023
53
                well said.
Dec 15th 2023
54
                That's true. And that's why I kinda hate what Dre said.
Dec 15th 2023
52
I think we all wish, at various intensities, that he dropped a hip-hop a...
Dec 14th 2023
44

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