the thing is you aint dumb, but you're so hell bent on proving your point, you don't even see where we're saying the same shit, or where you ARE NOT EVEN directly addressing what I'm talking about. maybe it's cause you're responding to Abstract and me, but wither way here i go

>He's talking about the general themes of gangsterism,
>misogyny, drug dealing, and street topics. You can read this
>thread and all the other ones he's written on this topic.
>
>That being said, plenty of hip hop artists took West Coast
>G-Rap flows, lyrical content, imagery, and production
>techniques. (Weezy wouldn't be who he is w/o snoop, fuck
>whatchu heard)
>
>Now if you're convinced that a dude rapping about making
>niggas back flip cause he hitting them with bullets is somehow
>different than bucking niggas down with 30 aught buckshot is
>really DIFFERENT...

didn't i say that you lout. that heads def took from them and Weezy is def one person who borrowed from NWA, but is he not also borrowing from Ra? wouldn't he say that himself?

>No you named people, and just like niggas before, you ain't
>explain their influence.
>
>Nobody raps like KRS still. Shit's been over and dead. hell
>krs don't rap like krs.

no shit cause people / artist change. please tell me if i've miss read your statements in the past, but haven't you said Mos was like the modern KRS at the turn of the 21st, he just never "capitalized on his talent". and i mean if you think KRS socio-political rap didn't influence everyone from Mos to Talib to Dead Prez to Immortal Technique to Co Flow, i mean why the fuck are we talking

>The folks who rap like PE, are like 3 underground dudes.
>People can't produce like the bomb squad anymore

didn't heads blend politics into their narratives? so in K_Orr's rap universe, no one speaks about social struggle or politics anymore? no one?

>But you don't hear Busta Rhymes claiming 5% when he rapping
>with Chris Brown.

uhhuh, and...


>But what i'm saying is that if you were listening back then,
>most rappers were not on the rah rah, i'm hard, shoot a nigga
>up, fuck a bitch when I can, move some weight, until NWA
>dropped.

gotcha, but that's not all that survived, unless we're talking about purely on the mainstream level.

>When they dropped, niggas in detroit, flint, sheboygan,
>memphis, new orleans, oklahoma city, phoenix, was like, "oh
>word, I can rap about that shit, gimme a mic". Suddenly you
>got a Charlotte's Most Wanted dropping a record from the mean
>streets of North Cackalackey.

and this was a good thing?


>Fuck outta here with that vibing community shit.
>
>Niggas bit. They bit HARD. Like MOP would even exist with
>NWA.

so Ice T, Chuck, Dre, Ra, Cube these dudes is lying when they are being interviewed about how they saw what the next man was doing and it inspired them to make their shit better, okay. who is talking about MOP?

>They changed up their steez to get paid. And if they didn't
>do it of their own accord, the record company forced them, or
>they signed new niggas to do just that.

so now we're talking about what the industry did with the image sound of gangsta rap and not what the artist themselves created, gotcha.

>That's what hip hop is and does. Despite you kumbuyah/4
>element cats saying otherwise.

yup, cause graf heads through out LA who i've built with were imagining all their stories about drug use, drug sells, fights, jail time, dead friends ect. cause their art doesn't reflect the gangsta shit as well as the positive shit. but in your world only the negative shit is the real shit it seems, and cats who came form those same neighborhoods who break danced or wrote graf were just frontin' and yelling lies throughout all their misguided purists stances that emerged in the late 90s and early aughts?

>>you went and explained EXACTLY why it does not make sense to
>>say NWA / Gangsta rap was the source of HIp Hop becoming
>>"better". Too Short, Ice T, solo Cube, PE, KRS, Ra were all
>>just as influential. how did that not make sense to you!?!!
>
>
>No, they weren't.
>
>It's like saying Joeski Love or Newcleus was as influential as
>Run DMC.
>
>Much love to Joeski, but the answer is no.
>
>Eminem is even bigger than Mc Hammer, but so far, not very
>influential. Same with the Beastie Boys.

it's interesting cause i agree with you on Em, which is strange being that he's been the most popular rapper of the past decade, maybe sans Jigga, but really not that influential. BUT REALLY look at who i named and looked at who you named to make you point. you just said Short, Ice T, Cube and PE were not influential. wow.

>>all the post-golden era rappers, you know the period from
>>roughly 92-98, before the enormous (and silly) mainstream
>vs.
>>underground divide happens,
>
>You lumping in a lot of years and not taking into account all
>the other factors. Clear Channel. Death of major figures.
>Changes in sampling laws.

i want to take them into account. and i wish as the lesson we'd be more invested it actually creating loose time period / eras when we see/seen rap change. im with you because that stuff is very important. but i think we're getting side-tracked here. you're making the point that solely G-rap made hip hop better, which is simply not true AND you seem to be saying it is the most important aspect of rap. and even if it is, ALL OF THAT WAS A GOOD THING?

>Please. By 94 that political shit was dead. Hell it was dead
>when Caine threw the conscious shit out his ride in Menace II
>Society.

this made me laugh, good symbolism/pop cult reference.

>And 94-96 - Wu, Nas, and Gangstarr were popular maybe in NYC.
>But Biggie and Pac were popular all over the country. Why?
>They were on that west coast sound and content.

Wu was only popular in NYC. WHAT! and i'm being revisionist.

>And did Biggie get big?
>Juicy and the One More Chance rmx.
>
>The same way that Masta Ace jumped on the West Coast bandwagon
>by rmxing Jeep Ass Niguh.

is this gangsta rap though?

>We also hearing from Da Brat and JD in this era. All riding
>the g-funk wave.

again is it gangsta rap though? influence is different than the music. what is and isn't gangsta rap? does it even matter?

>We hearing from Bone, and eventually 3-6, making noise off the
>Eazy E affilation.
>
>97-98 - Pac and Biggie out the picture, niggas like the Lox,
>DMX, and Puffy take over, and the R&Bization of hip hop
>starts.
>
>03 drops, and suddenly a dude from Queens done ripped off a
>southern flow and style.
>
>I could go on and on, but it sounds like you're reading from a
>text book and wasn't buying records, going to clubs and
>concerts at the time. Or you just don't have a critical ear.
>I dunno.

lol. but yet when i made that 1996 post about the year of transition you was like "i think you're right". cause hip hop changes on the mainstream and underground, but what are you saying here? seriously. wasn't that R&Bization just as much a product of the fun-n-bullshit rap of the early 80s as the long grasp of gangsta rap you just mentioned. why are you hell bent on making gangsta rap the most important part of rap history. doesn't that actually devalue how diverse an art form it can be


>Gangsta Rap, much like Rakim and Run DMC before them,
>infiltrated the very DNA of hip hop.
>
>Other cats start little trends, like Snoop got everybody to
>start smoking weed on wax and Primo got the entire underground
>to chop, but few artists ever alter the very fabric of the
>genre.
>
>Prior to SOC, hip hop was really a bragging rights/word
>flipping genre. And most of it wasn't about the words, but
>the beats and how hype they were. Peep the bpm's from those
>days.
>
>Post SOC....shit changes. Beats slowed down, folks
>enunciating, people stopped dancing and doing dances, niggas
>got hard....

so when dancing and dances came back with a vengeance in the aughts, was it the late70s/early80s NYC parks hip hop DNA that made that happen?

>>and making distinctions is not compartmentalizing. if you
>feel
>>comfortable saying the rappers we been name dropping are
>from
>>the same rap history tree, i will just disagree with you. Wu
>>made CREAM in direct response to the G-Funk that they felt
>had
>>taken over what they felt was "real hip hop". so how you
>link
>>them to NWA outside of SOME content similarities is beyond
>>me.
>
>Cash Rules Everything Around Me is a reaction the west
>coast/g-rap sound?
>
>haha. The whole song is about loving material items and
>Raekwon's failure as a drug dealer.
>
>If anything, NWA was anti-drug dealer, that's only if you
>listen to lyrics though.

so yet again, like i said above, gangsta rap influenced a whole lot of rap, but it was as much a sound as it was content, and influence doesn't just roll in one direction? which mean Wu can create a sound that was in response to the popular while speaking on the perils of street life and the material success that they found through rapping, but i guess in K_Orr's world Wu was doing the NWA.


>Naw, I gather data, analyze, and present a cogent argument.

you do, that's why i enjoy your voice in the lesson, but it doesn't mean you're correct, or im going to agree with ALL your points.