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Subject: "Yes, maybe they should have." Previous topic | Next topic
stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12518 posts
Fri Sep-30-22 04:38 PM

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176. "Yes, maybe they should have."
In response to In response to 173


          

Then again, the world isn't always as neatly predictable as it is for you looking in retrospect for every possible way to fulfill your preconceived notions about who's "good" and who's "bad."

Also, interesting that you bring up BBB. You know very well that if they had started out with a more cautious bill, like the one we eventually got. You and every 'progressive' knowitall from twitter to TikTok to instagram to snapchat to The Nation would have been ranting about how they were undercutting themselves by "pre-negotiating" away everything they should have demanded from the start. We saw how that went with Obamacare and progressives are still complaining that they should have demanded more to start with so that they could be forced back to something better.

>
>was as legally tight as possible then, no?
>
>This is giving me BBB vibes. Where the admin initially
>pleasantly surprises folks with what they are driving for,
>then the shit is trimmed back.
>
>Of course with BBB, we got to see the ins and outs of pure
>incompetence and corruption party-wide.
>
>So you almost end up with the worst of both worlds,
>politically. Again, this is a very trimmed down version of
>that.

Worst of both worlds, maybe because people like you are personally invested in confirming your article of faith that the Democrats are as bad as the Republicans. No matter what they do, you will find a way to claim it was a mistake.



>BBB aside, with all the time they spent deliberating this
>you'd think they'd have this air tight out of the gate.


I think you're misunderstanding what happened here. Nobody thinks that the federal government could possibly have the authority to forgive *private* student loans. What happened here was that, entirely separate from any action from the white house, staffers in the Department of Education initially presumed that such borrowers would be able to transfer those debts to federal accounts to then be forgiven. You're right: those low- and mid-level staffers hadn't fully thought through the tax implications of this, and so they had to clarify their guidance on the website. This wasn't a change in the "bill" (there is no bill), this wasn't something outlined in any executive order. This was a technical subtlety that applies to a small fraction of the loan debt for an estimated 800,000 people, a tiny fraction of the people eligible for loan forgiveness. And many of those people already have more than $10k of government-held debt as well, so it makes essentially no difference at all for them.

Yes, this is a story that's been blown way out of proportion by a media (and media watchers like yourself) who are more obsessed with which party is "winning" and which party is "losing" than in what actually happens for those borrowers, the vast majority of whom will see absolutely no practical difference over this minor technical change.

>I know your boy got his marching orders/tweet echo chamber
>notes to say "this is only 10% of borrowers!" but that still
>leaves a lot of folks frustrated/betrayed/etc.
>
>A lot of people are going to respond like Legs.


A lot of people respond in all sorts of uninformed ways. It doesn't change the objective reality of what this executive action does for the borrowers.


>>Note: you've been trying to push the silly idea that the
>>Democratic party is more interested in fundraising than in
>>delivering results. If that were the case, they would have
>>stuck to their guns, claimed to be defenders of the people,
>>let the SC chop the whole thing down, and then run on that
>>through 2024 and beyond. Instead, they're taking a
>significant
>>political hit to keep this 'progressive' idea afloat.
>
>This is an unforced political hit, but you cheerleaders won't
>see it that way.


Don't you complain day after day after day that people won't stop talking about politics like it's a sport? I've also seen you complain many times about how Democrats were supposedly more interested in looking good losing than in actually winning. This is what psychologists call "projection."

Why are you so obsessed with "unforced political hits"? If you're wondering whether the Biden administration would like to be talking about this one month before the midterm election, then no, they wouldn't. Congrats on your masterful powers of political game theory.


>One of your problems (in addition to being an arrogant
>asshole) is that you think you know where folks are going to
>land on an issue because you put people in a box. Like when
>you were convinced I was a Bernie Bro for a loonnng time.

You absolutely were a Bernie Bro for a very loonnng time, and you really still are in a lot of ways. I don't know or care whether you ever supported the guy (you did say about a thousand times, though, that there should be "real primaries," which was a code phrase back then for "progressive activists should be given more weight than Democratic voters"). The same naive sense that there are no truly difficult problems in politics, just insufficiently dedicated leaders, infects your political thinking just as much as it does Bernie's or any one of his Bro's.


>I've always thought student loan forgiveness was a political
>risk- and it doesn't do shit do address the actual problem.
>That said, I gave the Biden admin praise on how they did this
>initially...seemed like they hit the sweetspot.

And they still hit that sweetspot. Again, practically speaking, this change affects very few people, and it affects most of them minimally.

>They could have avoided this blowback by making it air tight
>upfront. They had plenty of time for that.

Honestly, speaking in my vaunted role as an arrogant asshole, you really haven't thought this through at all. Nothing that the white house ever explicitly promised has changed by one iota. Now, they are simply clarifying these extremely minor technical points before these trials hit a judge. You're talking like they cut the program by 30% or something. Because fundraising, or whatever.

>And if you don't think they are going to raise money off of
>this, I don't know what to say...

You post up a fundraising email where they say a single word about an "unforced political hit" and I'll pay off your student loans myself before Joe can even get around to it.

  

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Biden admin signals student loan forgiveness may come soon [View all] , PimpTrickGangstaClik, Wed Apr-27-22 11:08 AM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
define "well off"
Apr 27th 2022
1
RE: define "well off"
Apr 27th 2022
3
      That threshold is quite low.
Apr 27th 2022
6
      You're glossing over the other side of the picture. Poor folks
Apr 27th 2022
9
           I'm not glossing over it. I'm saying that data is skewed because ...
Apr 27th 2022
18
      well our household made well above 74K in 2021.
Apr 27th 2022
10
           right? we arent hurting but we damn sure aren’t balling
Apr 27th 2022
12
           right, and the only reason we're doing as well as we are...
Apr 27th 2022
14
           Right.
Apr 27th 2022
19
Sounds like a carrot for midterms.
Apr 27th 2022
2
What ?
Apr 27th 2022
4
Transfer of wealth ? LOL what ?!
Apr 27th 2022
5
That quote doesn't mean what you think it means
Apr 27th 2022
13
      "Transfer of wealth" means exactly what I think it means.
Apr 27th 2022
20
           It *kinda* is. I’ll explain
Apr 27th 2022
27
                ^^^sees it
Apr 27th 2022
29
lmao at transfer of wealth
Apr 27th 2022
7
Glad I wasn't the only one.
Apr 27th 2022
8
      look at housing cost and car prices these days..
Apr 27th 2022
11
besides income, what other stipulations would be in place?
Apr 27th 2022
15
How much is he forgiving?
Apr 27th 2022
16
unpopular opinion, but I'm not with it
Apr 27th 2022
17
Yes - this is exactly the type of criticism that should be discussed.
Apr 27th 2022
21
despite everything i said above, i'm here with you.
Apr 27th 2022
23
^^^^
Apr 27th 2022
40
ftr, I stand by this
Aug 24th 2022
78
RE: unpopular opinion, but I'm not with it
Aug 24th 2022
101
it feels like a stunt
Apr 27th 2022
22
some folks with student loans will say:
Apr 27th 2022
24
yeah. and for sure, they need something
Apr 27th 2022
26
I am pretty sure he didn't run on student loan forgiveness.
Apr 27th 2022
32
You're right and I sent those links lol
Apr 27th 2022
35
how is it crazy?
Apr 27th 2022
41
like having a black woman as vp? appointing a black woman Supreme Court ...
Apr 27th 2022
25
      LOL
Apr 27th 2022
42
I support student loan forgiveness, however;
Apr 27th 2022
28
when yall say what about the poor I hear “what bout the children?”
Apr 27th 2022
30
If we're giving money out, I'd rather it not go to ppl who don't need it
Apr 27th 2022
31
I’m not concerned with stimulating the economy and
Apr 27th 2022
33
      doesn't matter if you are concerned about it or not
Apr 27th 2022
50
           Economic stimulus should not be the goal
Apr 28th 2022
54
My Prediction: Whatever Debt Forgiveness it is, folks will complain...
Apr 27th 2022
34
So what happens in another decade
Apr 27th 2022
36
sees it
Apr 27th 2022
37
Too late to edit, but a personal disclaimer
Apr 27th 2022
38
^^^This
Apr 27th 2022
39
But we don't fix things in this country
Apr 27th 2022
43
^^^
Apr 27th 2022
51
Would you recommend a book or two
Apr 28th 2022
53
It's also debt that in most cases can't be forgiven
Apr 27th 2022
45
A big part of the reason it can't be discharged
Apr 27th 2022
47
      but you see how the current system shifts all of the risk to 18 year old...
Apr 27th 2022
48
forgive their shit too. fuck it.
Apr 27th 2022
46
right? I’m all for changing the current system
Apr 28th 2022
52
I can also see working class backlash to this.
May 09th 2022
59
      Someone chose to have 11 kids and lives off welfare
May 09th 2022
61
           Everyone you listed has a financial need
May 09th 2022
62
                And?
May 09th 2022
63
Crabs in a pot
Apr 27th 2022
44
Pretty much any non universal benefit will be met with backlash
May 10th 2022
64
forgiveness is quietly happening…
Apr 27th 2022
49
Biden: $50,000 forgiveness is off the table
Apr 28th 2022
55
Should have never brought it up, then. Just reschedule weed
Apr 28th 2022
56
Dept of Education forgives more than 110,000 public service loans
May 04th 2022
57
Reason number 1 I left the post office
May 04th 2022
58
i had a professor
May 09th 2022
60
He's doing it. Up to $10k cancellation for those making less than $125k
Aug 24th 2022
65
WH links
Aug 24th 2022
66
not mad at it but it also makes Obama’s admin look like shit
Aug 24th 2022
67
not really. this mostly became a thing because of the pandemic.
Aug 24th 2022
69
No it doesnt.
Aug 24th 2022
71
      legs my dude but he consistently has the *worst* takes in any post.
Aug 24th 2022
72
      shut the fuck up you paid to post ass nigga.. lol
Aug 24th 2022
86
           damn thats fucked up.
Aug 24th 2022
92
      the housing crisis didn’t exist? The Dow crashing didn’t happen in 2...
Aug 24th 2022
95
up to $20k for pell grant recipients basically is for black people lol.
Aug 24th 2022
68
      Yup. I'd get $20K knocked off of my student loans.
Aug 24th 2022
70
      that 5% cap is really a game changer.
Aug 24th 2022
74
      theyre covering interest too, i think?
Aug 24th 2022
75
      some numbers: 72% of black borrowers received pell grants.
Aug 24th 2022
80
           Huge win for black folk. Student loans are brutal.
Aug 24th 2022
81
there shoulda been a rule that anybody who bitches about the amount
Aug 24th 2022
73
it's disgusting.
Aug 24th 2022
77
aint no pleasing some folks cuz some folks dont wanna be pleased.
Aug 24th 2022
79
yikes @ performative left
Aug 24th 2022
83
      a lot of that is wishcasting from lefty social media echo chambers.
Aug 24th 2022
89
           God you're fucking exhausting
Aug 24th 2022
96
                bernie is the most popular politician in america (c)
Aug 24th 2022
97
                     https://jacobin.com/2022/08/new-york-socialists-victory-local-elections-...
Aug 25th 2022
148
the biden admin found the sweet spot
Aug 24th 2022
76
went on some black 'news' pages (theshaderoom, hollywoodunlocked, etc.)
Aug 24th 2022
82
mitt romney is calling this a bribe for voters.
Aug 24th 2022
84
aka "he's doing something for the people ! The horror !"
Aug 24th 2022
87
lol seriously.
Aug 24th 2022
90
mister "47% of americans think they're entitled to things like food"
Aug 24th 2022
93
*Logs into Navient, cancels pending payment*
Aug 24th 2022
85
LOL
Aug 24th 2022
88
lol
Aug 24th 2022
91
Mohela wont even let me log in.. prolly crashed the servers
Aug 24th 2022
94
NelNet is down. Lmao
Aug 24th 2022
99
      yeah my service site loads, but the login box is Error 404 LMAO.
Aug 24th 2022
103
fox news now running oppo articles like this:
Aug 24th 2022
98
That shit makes me want to throw up
Aug 24th 2022
100
190 K in 2 years? that's not "budgeting."
Aug 24th 2022
104
      they also received 30K in PPP loans
Aug 25th 2022
125
boy, republicans are BIG MAD.
Aug 24th 2022
102
The broke ones are cuz they’re easy to trick
Aug 24th 2022
107
      great post especially this
Aug 24th 2022
108
There's one way still remaining to do more
Aug 24th 2022
105
best response yet:
Aug 24th 2022
106
Black progressive twitter is almost as bad as Fox News today
Aug 25th 2022
109
That's a great stat. Can you share the source?
Aug 25th 2022
110
RE: That's a great stat. Can you share the source?
Aug 25th 2022
112
Nah some of them made good points
Aug 25th 2022
111
I dont consider what Biden did to be structural racism
Aug 25th 2022
113
It s when you look at who benefits the most.
Aug 25th 2022
119
      no, he's right. the structural part that white people have to borrow les...
Aug 25th 2022
121
           What ?
Aug 25th 2022
122
                how does that NOT make sense to you?
Aug 25th 2022
124
                It makes sense that's enough for you
Aug 25th 2022
130
                     no, it's not enough.
Aug 25th 2022
132
                          Stop thinking you get to decide who gets to speak.
Aug 25th 2022
134
                               where would you get the idea that i think i can control who speaks.
Aug 25th 2022
135
                                    Your words
Aug 25th 2022
139
                                         ok bro.
Aug 25th 2022
140
                Whites NEEDING to borrow less is the structural part
Aug 25th 2022
126
                     You think it stops right there ?
Aug 25th 2022
129
                          Use logic. No one said it stops there.
Aug 25th 2022
133
                               You said you don't consider what Biden did structural racism
Aug 25th 2022
137
something is better than nothing but I dont see this as insufferable
Aug 25th 2022
120
True
Aug 25th 2022
123
Yeah Joel Osteen is trending today because he got 4 million
Aug 25th 2022
127
I want yall to look closely at Nina Turner's stats and see what's wrong ...
Aug 25th 2022
131
      What ?
Aug 25th 2022
147
I think that's saying 72% of black students receive Pell
Aug 25th 2022
114
Yeah it's 22% overall.
Aug 25th 2022
117
Imagine her as the Chief of Staff in the WH LMAO
Aug 25th 2022
116
what percentage of Black America got student loan debt?
Aug 25th 2022
138
      24%. It benefits the *black college masses*
Aug 25th 2022
143
Dark Brandon
Aug 25th 2022
115
"Dark Brandon" is the rare example of liberals/leftists
Aug 25th 2022
118
Raise your hand if you're in the six figure club.
Aug 25th 2022
128
Show your work
Aug 25th 2022
136
Closing the carried interest loophole and other loopholes
Aug 25th 2022
141
      um, didn't Dems actually have the carried interest loophole closed...
Aug 25th 2022
142
      Shhhhhh she doesn't like logic.
Aug 25th 2022
144
      Blocked by 50 Republicans and 1 Democrat
Aug 25th 2022
149
           Kira, show your work now please???
Aug 29th 2022
159
It is 20K
Aug 25th 2022
145
10k about finishes it off for me
Aug 25th 2022
146
anyone else have FFEL loans?
Aug 25th 2022
150
These White House tweets are fire
Aug 25th 2022
151
i've been DYING all afternoon.
Aug 25th 2022
152
pretty fucking great
Aug 26th 2022
153
hell fuck yeah
Aug 26th 2022
154
I'm not the biggest fan of Biden
Aug 26th 2022
155
Dark. Brandon.
Aug 26th 2022
156
love the trolling
Aug 26th 2022
157
This WH is like the Celtics in the 2nd half of the season.
Aug 29th 2022
158
master stroke.
Aug 29th 2022
160
In reversal, the Ed Dept. is excluding millions from student loan relief...
Sep 29th 2022
161
Oh boy
Sep 29th 2022
162
so if you had applied to consolidate before today you're still good
Sep 29th 2022
163
you can take Biden out of Delaware but you cant take the Delaware…
Sep 29th 2022
164
They're being sued by Republican state attorney's
Sep 29th 2022
165
      Did they win their lawsuit?
Sep 29th 2022
166
      No but they were going to.
Sep 30th 2022
168
           probably should have ensured the original version
Sep 30th 2022
173
               
      so they just changed shit once they were sued?
Sep 29th 2022
167
           are you under the impression they abandoned the whole thing?
Sep 30th 2022
169
                no, under the impression they changed it for some borrowers
Sep 30th 2022
171
                     so what are you so pissed about?
Sep 30th 2022
172
                     its just like 4 million people Legs, relax
Sep 30th 2022
174
                          What exactly yall complaining about?
Sep 30th 2022
175
                               They'd just rather be watching football.
Sep 30th 2022
178
a small fraction of borrowers who would have had to use a loophole
Sep 30th 2022
170
signals don’t pay the bills.
Sep 30th 2022
177
It's the new Obamacare
Sep 30th 2022
179

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