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Subject: "And the complexity is the fun part" Previous topic | Next topic
Walleye
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15521 posts
Tue Apr-28-20 03:10 PM

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32. "And the complexity is the fun part"
In response to In response to 28


          

>the US backed dictatorships and/or fascism over the course of the last >75 years or so - while framing our foreign policy, incessantly,
>as "promoting democracy" or some similar refrain - through
>red, white, and blue-tinted glasses.

Yep. And particularly during the Cold War you have a bunch of very broad, sweeping narratives that collide with each other in really messy, interesting ways. Socialism vs. Capitalism is just a story of competing ideologies until you have specific nations who embody those ideologies trying to figure out what that means on the fly - and often through the lens of a much more discrete story of US vs. USSR. But that latter narrative sometimes consumes the first, say when Stalin and Tito - both dedicated to communist ideology - fell out with each other. Or when the USSR put down independent labor movements in Poland.

Or when other countries, particularly outside the North American/European framework, started to see themselves as the embodiment of socialist values. China (mostly) giving the USSR the cold shoulder and the first world proletariat with some skepticism and tiny, insignificant Cuba sending thousands of soldiers abroad to help African revolutions with no clear, national benefit reframes the socialism vs. capitalism narrative as something independent of the traditional Cold War powers. But instead you get DIFFERENT overlapping narratives like Colonialism vs. Nationalism or De-Colonization vs. NeoColonialism.

And that invites a whole separate band of messiness into the analysis.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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It's the 75th anniversary of Mussolini's death [View all] , Walleye, Tue Apr-28-20 08:23 AM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
i got some down time, i'll bite. Why should any of us on OKP care
Apr 28th 2020
1
what an odd stance. the poster is presenting history. an observation
Apr 28th 2020
2
Yeah, the photos are something else
Apr 28th 2020
7
stance? not a stance. a question. please settle down.
Apr 28th 2020
15
      asking someone: 'feed me a position!'. is odd to me.
Apr 28th 2020
18
      stop being weird fam. this is where I spend my down time.....
Apr 28th 2020
21
           i can be 'weird' if i want. the fuck?
Apr 28th 2020
22
           Why you poasting like it's 2008? It's 2020, this ain't that kinda party ...
Apr 28th 2020
24
                way to silly it up by stating the year in which i joined.
Apr 28th 2020
26
           I didn't really think it was an odd question
May 01st 2020
41
      also, stance doesn't mean 'up in arms'. it's simply a position.
Apr 28th 2020
19
It's more than fine not to care
Apr 28th 2020
3
      Thank you for the very thorough response!
Apr 28th 2020
4
      I'm always intrigued by US, ahistorial, views about the war anod "who" w...
Apr 28th 2020
5
      And folks will pretend your first point somehow doesn't count
Apr 28th 2020
8
           Don't wanna derail, but it seems like you're romanticizing USSR's motiva...
Apr 28th 2020
20
                But we don't do that same de-coupling in the United States
Apr 28th 2020
23
                     You write very well
Apr 28th 2020
27
                     I think it's near impossible *and* we should do it anyhow
Apr 28th 2020
29
                     wrestling coaches almost always have reactionary political instincts
Apr 28th 2020
30
                     Well said. It's extremely complicated.
Apr 28th 2020
28
                         
                               Ha yep. Fun/interesting, and endlessly frustrating too.
Apr 28th 2020
33
      *fire emojis*
Apr 28th 2020
14
Got a song out of it at least
Apr 28th 2020
6
I got a good beginners introduction to Mussolini with this Podcast
Apr 28th 2020
9
Shit, this looks good
Apr 28th 2020
11
Checked the Ivan The Terrible pod yesterday. Real life Game of Thrones.....
Apr 29th 2020
38
I was incredibly into Russian History when I was sixteen
Apr 29th 2020
39
Just started listening to this - thanks.
Apr 29th 2020
40
I wonder how popular it would be to hang criminal bodies in public in th...
Apr 28th 2020
10
That's a big part of why I think this is important
Apr 28th 2020
12
      Our system has diffused responsibility so much and made everything legal
Apr 29th 2020
36
           Exactly
Apr 29th 2020
37
Just became familiar with this through Celtic vs. Lazio
Apr 28th 2020
13
That's extremely good
Apr 28th 2020
16
      Nothing from florida could ever be Maoist. From rednecks
Apr 28th 2020
17
           Good call - plus, I forgot about the Packers
Apr 28th 2020
25
                ah what a waste of a specialty
Apr 28th 2020
31
is there a decent movie on this?
Apr 28th 2020
34
That's a really good question!
Apr 28th 2020
35

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