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Lobby General Discussion topic #13381047

Subject: "It's more than fine not to care" Previous topic | Next topic
Walleye
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15523 posts
Tue Apr-28-20 09:16 AM

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3. "It's more than fine not to care"
In response to In response to 1


          

Offhand, I'd say a good 85% of my posts over about 20 years here have received crickets. Mussolini wasn't even the most important fascist to die in this week in 1945 (Hitler was up in a couple days) so this is undercard shit, at best.

But I can tell you why I care about it.

The first reason is historical. Americans like to flatter themselves that our liberal, democratic order prevailed over fascism in WWII. Obscuring the sacrifices and success of communists during this period is intentional, as it is meant to additionally obscure a lesson that (to me at least) is revealed in the story of Mussolini's death: that the desire for political power is both libidinal and more common than we imagine. People intuit that the state is nothing but a relationship, and that makes us ultimately responsible for our own freedom. Fascism rises when capital and nationalism collaborate to steal political power from the people.

Our good, liberal democracy is not fascism in shape or size, but it does commit the same theft by slowly narrowing the scope of legitimate political involvement. Over the past few decades we've seen a large scale decline in avenues for regular people to collectively realize political power. Union membership and action have declined. Wealthy people use philanthropy as a shield against having to participate in the successful administration of the state on the same grounds as the rest of us. What you have left is a vote, which we rhetorically privilege as an act of free expression and then deflate as a strategic expression of surrender to one view of the state-as-relationship or another.

That's not some grand evil. Voting is an act, and one that reinforces our collective obligation to each other. But I think that even though we've tried our asses off to describe our current, minimal political participation as calm and even and rational, we're still Milanese working people, waiting for a body to spit and piss on. And that's where socialism as an ideology has something to offer that liberalism doesn't: actual, chaotic political power given to real people and rather than a thin sliver of DC people.

And to be clear, I grew up in the DC area (MoCo) and live in the district now after leaving for fifteen years. Both my parents worked for the federal government when I was growing up, and my father continued to do so until the Bush administration. They're good people who want the best for Americans, but not if it comes at a loss of control for our educated liberal betters. That's the one thing that they'll never cough up.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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It's the 75th anniversary of Mussolini's death [View all] , Walleye, Tue Apr-28-20 08:23 AM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
i got some down time, i'll bite. Why should any of us on OKP care
Apr 28th 2020
1
what an odd stance. the poster is presenting history. an observation
Apr 28th 2020
2
Yeah, the photos are something else
Apr 28th 2020
7
stance? not a stance. a question. please settle down.
Apr 28th 2020
15
      asking someone: 'feed me a position!'. is odd to me.
Apr 28th 2020
18
      stop being weird fam. this is where I spend my down time.....
Apr 28th 2020
21
           i can be 'weird' if i want. the fuck?
Apr 28th 2020
22
           Why you poasting like it's 2008? It's 2020, this ain't that kinda party ...
Apr 28th 2020
24
                way to silly it up by stating the year in which i joined.
Apr 28th 2020
26
           I didn't really think it was an odd question
May 01st 2020
41
      also, stance doesn't mean 'up in arms'. it's simply a position.
Apr 28th 2020
19
      Thank you for the very thorough response!
Apr 28th 2020
4
      I'm always intrigued by US, ahistorial, views about the war anod "who" w...
Apr 28th 2020
5
      And folks will pretend your first point somehow doesn't count
Apr 28th 2020
8
           Don't wanna derail, but it seems like you're romanticizing USSR's motiva...
Apr 28th 2020
20
                But we don't do that same de-coupling in the United States
Apr 28th 2020
23
                     You write very well
Apr 28th 2020
27
                     I think it's near impossible *and* we should do it anyhow
Apr 28th 2020
29
                     wrestling coaches almost always have reactionary political instincts
Apr 28th 2020
30
                     Well said. It's extremely complicated.
Apr 28th 2020
28
                          And the complexity is the fun part
Apr 28th 2020
32
                               Ha yep. Fun/interesting, and endlessly frustrating too.
Apr 28th 2020
33
      *fire emojis*
Apr 28th 2020
14
Got a song out of it at least
Apr 28th 2020
6
I got a good beginners introduction to Mussolini with this Podcast
Apr 28th 2020
9
Shit, this looks good
Apr 28th 2020
11
Checked the Ivan The Terrible pod yesterday. Real life Game of Thrones.....
Apr 29th 2020
38
I was incredibly into Russian History when I was sixteen
Apr 29th 2020
39
Just started listening to this - thanks.
Apr 29th 2020
40
I wonder how popular it would be to hang criminal bodies in public in th...
Apr 28th 2020
10
That's a big part of why I think this is important
Apr 28th 2020
12
      Our system has diffused responsibility so much and made everything legal
Apr 29th 2020
36
           Exactly
Apr 29th 2020
37
Just became familiar with this through Celtic vs. Lazio
Apr 28th 2020
13
That's extremely good
Apr 28th 2020
16
      Nothing from florida could ever be Maoist. From rednecks
Apr 28th 2020
17
           Good call - plus, I forgot about the Packers
Apr 28th 2020
25
                ah what a waste of a specialty
Apr 28th 2020
31
is there a decent movie on this?
Apr 28th 2020
34
That's a really good question!
Apr 28th 2020
35

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