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Subject: "Cornel West Goes At Ta-Nehisi Coates (Swipe)" Previous topic | Next topic
Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
11326 posts
Sun Dec-17-17 11:04 AM

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"Cornel West Goes At Ta-Nehisi Coates (Swipe)"
Sun Dec-17-17 11:05 AM by Reeq

  

          

oldie but goodie:
https://twitter.com/CornelWest/status/635996114060050432

anyway, you know he had to brand coates as a neoliberal lol. far left getting as predictable as the far right at this point. the horseshoe is real af.



-----------------------------
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/17/ta-nehisi-coates-neoliberal-black-struggle-cornel-west


Ta-Nehisi Coates is the neoliberal face of the black freedom struggle

The disagreement between Coates and me is clear: his view of black America is narrow and dangerously misleading


Ta-Nehisi Coates’ We Were Eight Years in Power, a book about Barack Obama’s presidency and the tenacity of white supremacy, has captured the attention of many of us. One crucial question is why now in this moment has his apolitical pessimism gained such wide acceptance?

Coates and I come from a great tradition of the black freedom struggle. He represents the neoliberal wing that sounds militant about white supremacy but renders black fightback invisible. This wing reaps the benefits of the neoliberal establishment that rewards silences on issues such as Wall Street greed or Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands and people.

The disagreement between Coates and me is clear: any analysis or vision of our world that omits the centrality of Wall Street power, US military policies, and the complex dynamics of class, gender, and sexuality in black America is too narrow and dangerously misleading. So it is with Ta-Nehisi Coates’ worldview.

Coates rightly highlights the vicious legacy of white supremacy – past and present. He sees it everywhere and ever reminds us of its plundering effects. Unfortunately, he hardly keeps track of our fightback, and never connects this ugly legacy to the predatory capitalist practices, imperial policies (of war, occupation, detention, assassination) or the black elite’s refusal to confront poverty, patriarchy or transphobia.

In short, Coates fetishizes white supremacy. He makes it almighty, magical and unremovable. What concerns me is his narrative of “defiance”. For Coates, defiance is narrowly aesthetic – a personal commitment to writing with no connection to collective action. It generates crocodile tears of neoliberals who have no intention of sharing power or giving up privilege.

When he honestly asks: “How do you defy a power that insists on claiming you?”, the answer should be clear: they claim you because you are silent on what is a threat to their order (especially Wall Street and war). You defy them when you threaten that order.

Coates tries to justify his “defiance” by an appeal to “black atheism, to a disbelief in dreams and moral appeal”. He not only has “no expectations of white people at all”, but for him, if freedom means anything at all it is “this defiance”.

Note that his perception of white people is tribal and his conception of freedom is neoliberal. Racial groups are homogeneous and freedom is individualistic in his world. Classes don’t exist and empires are nonexistent.

This presidency, he writes, “opened a market” for a new wave of black pundits, intellectuals, writers and journalists – one that Coates himself has benefited from. And his own literary “dreams” of success were facilitated by a black neoliberal president who ruled for eight years – an example of “Black respectability, good Negro government.”

Coates reveals his preoccupation with white acceptance when he writes with genuine euphoria: “As I watched Barack Obama’s star shoot across the political sky ... I had never seen so many white people cheer on a black man who was neither an athlete nor an entertainer. And it seemed that they loved him for this, and I thought in those days ... that they might love me too.”

There is no doubt that the marketing of Coates – like the marketing of anyone – warrants suspicion. Does the profiteering of fatalism about white supremacy and pessimism of black freedom fit well in an age of Trump – an age of neo-fascism, US style?

Coates wisely invokes the bleak worldview of the late great Derrick Bell. But Bell reveled in black fightback, rejoiced in black resistance and risked his life and career based on his love for black people and justice. Needless to say, the greatest truth-teller about white supremacy in the 20th century – Malcolm X – was also deeply pessimistic about America. Yet his pessimism was neither cheap nor abstract – it was earned, soaked in blood and tears of love for black people and justice.

Unfortunately, Coates’ allegiance to Obama has produced an impoverished understanding of black history. He reveals this when he writes: “Ossie Davis famously eulogized Malcolm X as ‘our living, Black manhood’ and ‘our own Black shining prince.’ Only one man today could bear those twin honorifics: Barack Obama.”

This gross misunderstanding of who Malcolm X was – the greatest prophetic voice against the American Empire – and who Barack Obama is – the first black head of the American Empire – speaks volumes about Coates’ neoliberal view of the world.

Coates praises Obama as a “deeply moral human being” while remaining silent on the 563 drone strikes, the assassination of US citizens with no trial, the 26,171 bombs dropped on five Muslim-majority countries in 2016 and the 550 Palestinian children killed with US supported planes in 51 days, etc. He calls Obama “one of the greatest presidents in American history,” who for “eight years ... walked on ice and never fell.”

It is clear that his narrow racial tribalism and myopic political neoliberalism has no place for keeping track of Wall Street greed, US imperial crimes or black elite indifference to poverty. For example, there is no serious attention to the plight of the most vulnerable in our community, the LGBT people who are disproportionately affected by violence, poverty, neglect and disrespect.

The disagreements between Coates and I are substantive and serious. It would be wrong to construe my quest for truth and justice as motivated by pettiness. Must every serious critique be reduced to a vicious takedown or an ugly act of hatred? Can we not acknowledge that there are deep disagreements among us with our very lives and destinies at stake? Is it even possible to downplay career moves and personal insecurities in order to highlight our clashing and conflicting ways of viewing the cold and cruel world we inhabit?

I stand with those like Robin DG Kelley, Gerald Horne, Imani Perry and Barbara Ransby who represent the radical wing of the black freedom struggle. We refuse to disconnect white supremacy from the realities of class, empire, and other forms of domination – be it ecological, sexual, or others.

The same cannot be said for Ta-Nehisi Coates.


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Cornel West Goes At Ta-Nehisi Coates (Swipe) [View all] , Reeq, Sun Dec-17-17 11:04 AM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
Damn
Dec 17th 2017
1
^^^ this right here 100%
Dec 17th 2017
16
RE: Cornel West Goes At Ta-Nehisi Coates (Swipe)
Dec 17th 2017
2
Yes and yes
Dec 17th 2017
3
      ^^^^^^ And West is Darth Petty
Dec 17th 2017
4
           Yeah pretty much
Dec 18th 2017
48
*waits for Cornel West article about his abusive friend*
Dec 17th 2017
5
why? Why would he?
Dec 17th 2017
6
      If he insists on calling out other public black figures
Dec 17th 2017
26
           he talks about state & national level politics
Dec 18th 2017
38
It's horseshit in the end because nothing will change without violence
Dec 17th 2017
7
he really really really likes saying neoliberal
Dec 17th 2017
8
Coates' audience isn't academia
Dec 17th 2017
9
hmmm
Dec 17th 2017
10
man, fuck cornel west (and balcony muppet ass tavis).
Dec 17th 2017
11
^^^^^^
Dec 17th 2017
12
*packs up, nothing more to add, Bruh man said it all up there ^^^
Dec 17th 2017
22
Well somebody sure sounds big mad!!!!
Dec 18th 2017
70
West is right to criticize Coates’s fatalism and pessimism.
Dec 17th 2017
13
i take issue with TNC tying his pessimism to atheism
Dec 17th 2017
19
thank you!
Dec 17th 2017
20
      lol!
Dec 17th 2017
21
I agree with you 100%
Dec 18th 2017
49
Black folks hate it when their public intellectuals disagree
Dec 17th 2017
14
^^^^^^^^^^^
Dec 17th 2017
15
RE: ^^^^^^^^^^^
Dec 17th 2017
17
      hmmm...never thought of it that way. Interesting,
Dec 17th 2017
27
      I think it's both
Dec 17th 2017
33
      *10,000 typos and misspellings but you know what I mean.
Dec 17th 2017
29
Exactly. This been happening since Dubios vs Ferris
Dec 17th 2017
18
Its because its less disagreements, more like taking Coates down
Dec 18th 2017
43
We hate transparently jealous disagreement.
Dec 17th 2017
23
the issue is that he arguing over decimal points....
Dec 17th 2017
34
you ever read his books? He's actually simplified his text a LOT ..
Dec 18th 2017
39
      ^^This...
Dec 20th 2017
136
seems like the only thing to disagree on with WS is how to destroy it
Dec 18th 2017
64
Exactly
Dec 18th 2017
72
people keep forgetting a really important detail tho:
Dec 19th 2017
125
      West isn't trying to be a leader either...
Dec 20th 2017
135
           I don't think Coates (and most people here) mind the criticism
Dec 20th 2017
141
           RE: West isn't trying to be a leader either...
Dec 20th 2017
162
I prefer this Cornell to the 90s one vs Sista Soulja
Dec 17th 2017
24
The Clinton administration pushed him HARD left
Dec 17th 2017
25
Most certainly
Dec 17th 2017
28
I never liked him before but something happened with the Obama admin
Dec 17th 2017
30
Ta-Nehisi Coates with receipts
Dec 17th 2017
31
ha! i love it.
Dec 17th 2017
32
damn
Dec 18th 2017
37
like a don.
Dec 18th 2017
40
lol. now this is how you counter ambiguous attacks
Dec 18th 2017
51
RE: Ta-Nehisi Coates with receipts
Dec 19th 2017
77
      coates deleted his twitter account over this
Dec 19th 2017
83
niggas still looking for leaders. unbelievable.
Dec 18th 2017
35
This is exactly why West is on that bullshit. He thinks he is *THE* lead...
Dec 18th 2017
36
LOL
Dec 18th 2017
42
Indeed.
Dec 18th 2017
65
West a dogg! he the leader of team BLACK! TNC dont got that dogg in him!
Dec 18th 2017
41
I firmly reside here
Dec 18th 2017
47
West gets half his paychecks dancing for CNN and Maher
Dec 18th 2017
44
pretty much...
Dec 18th 2017
46
Jelani Cobb shut it down last night:
Dec 18th 2017
45
RE: Jelani Cobb shut it down last night:
Dec 18th 2017
54
agreed
Dec 18th 2017
60
Dope.
Dec 18th 2017
61
Cornel tight nobody checking for him anymore.
Dec 18th 2017
50
Y'all just gonna attack Cornel instead of attacking what he said, huh?
Dec 18th 2017
52
He hasn't said anything they can honestly argue against that's why.
Dec 18th 2017
53
West had fair points, but his attack was more personal and petty
Dec 18th 2017
55
Cornel said a bunch of shit based on NOT reading Coates
Dec 18th 2017
56
RE: Cornel said a bunch of shit based on NOT reading Coates <- THIS
Dec 18th 2017
57
I think this is where the West piece actually comes from
Dec 18th 2017
58
Let's be honest, that title conjures up different connotations though
Dec 19th 2017
113
I've seen better critiques of TNC on Twitter than this shit, it's embarr...
Dec 18th 2017
67
"zacally" (c) redd foxx. balcony muppet ass ni&&a.
Dec 20th 2017
177
he sandwiched salient points in petty bullshit about someone else
Dec 18th 2017
66
Anyone read Kiese Laymon's version?
Dec 18th 2017
59
Kiese Laymon is that fucking dude
Dec 18th 2017
62
Kiese Laymon READ Coates work before commenting.
Dec 18th 2017
63
a novel idea.
Dec 18th 2017
69
A good read
Dec 18th 2017
71
Better than West's piece
Dec 18th 2017
74
I'm really frustrated
Dec 18th 2017
68
meh. umar johnson vs polight vs seti was more entertaining
Dec 18th 2017
73
I'm still tripping off "Prince of Pan-Afrikanism NIGGA" to this day
Dec 18th 2017
75
this fool made the Wakandans invaders that harvested alien tech
Dec 18th 2017
76
which is a more accurate criticism of his work than West puts out there
Dec 19th 2017
78
      seen, Poo Poo Platter even
Dec 19th 2017
134
TNC deleted his twitter
Dec 19th 2017
79
i like dude but he is way too thin skinned.
Dec 19th 2017
80
agreed
Dec 19th 2017
81
Yeah. At the same time you can tell he's a pure writing nerd
Dec 19th 2017
he got the usual backlash from berniebots and alt righters.
Dec 19th 2017
86
Yeah. At the same time you can tell he's a pure writing nerd
Dec 19th 2017
84
He was always that way on his Atlantic blog.
Dec 19th 2017
85
it's always been puzzling to me that I've never heard of yo till OKP
Dec 19th 2017
88
First mention I heard of him was here back in like 2008.
Dec 19th 2017
94
i caught on to him through bill maher, black msnbc shows, etc.
Dec 19th 2017
102
co-sign
Dec 19th 2017
110
      Lol. Exactly..was kinda waiting for you to show up...cuz yo went up
Dec 19th 2017
114
           lol, i think he was class of 92 or 93
Dec 20th 2017
146
                He was a bullied nerd (no shade - I wasn't bullied but I was a nerd).
Dec 20th 2017
148
ya'll hella judgmental.
Dec 19th 2017
124
^^^^
Dec 22nd 2017
199
this is a misread of the situation
Dec 20th 2017
166
Damn
Dec 19th 2017
82
he handled it right for him, which is all that matters.
Dec 19th 2017
123
      No, with great power comes great responsibility
Dec 20th 2017
154
           So what exactly is the responsibility that he's shirking?
Dec 20th 2017
163
                Answering his critics and those who disagree, in his own words.
Dec 20th 2017
171
                     he did that. he has always done that. to exhaustion
Dec 21st 2017
184
                          Thank you
Dec 21st 2017
191
                               you're welcome. i want to get better at kind, loving debate.
Dec 21st 2017
193
                                    Update: 3 years later, I don't care anymore. LOL
Sep 21st 2020
217
                                         Yo c'mon hahaha how the eff did you remember this exact comment
Sep 21st 2020
218
                                         LOL I didn't. I was looking for this post, then saw my reply in it
Sep 22nd 2020
223
                                         lmao
Sep 22nd 2020
224
I don't blame him. I mean, I blame him for being dramatic about it
Dec 19th 2017
87
nobody expects him to answer to it all though
Dec 19th 2017
91
making a big deal out of it is teenage
Dec 19th 2017
92
I agree with you here.
Dec 19th 2017
93
Why can't he just ignore any comments he doesn't want to reply to?
Dec 19th 2017
95
      yup
Dec 19th 2017
97
      exactly. nothing valiant about tucking his tail.
Dec 19th 2017
98
      The age-old OKP question
Dec 19th 2017
107
      I mean I can't speak for him but I'd think it'd be difficult ...
Dec 19th 2017
111
           TheAtlantic has curated message boards
Dec 20th 2017
145
                RE: TheAtlantic has curated message boards
Dec 20th 2017
178
deleting your whole account *is* making a big deal of it.
Dec 19th 2017
96
      i mean i said that shit was dramatic.
Dec 19th 2017
99
      I don't think it's about criticism
Dec 19th 2017
119
           ^^^^^^^this. everybody is judging from their own lens
Dec 19th 2017
128
he didn't really make a big deal though
Dec 19th 2017
118
exactly. he may not have even liked Twitter in the first place.
Dec 19th 2017
129
um we giving Twitter (and all social media) way too much importance
Dec 19th 2017
127
      ^^^^^
Dec 20th 2017
139
i dont blame him either. twitter is toxic
Dec 19th 2017
106
I'd like to see this too:
Dec 19th 2017
108
      im waiting to see him write about racism against africans in Paris
Dec 19th 2017
109
           have you read what Baldwin wrote on the subject?
Dec 19th 2017
116
           no, you have a link?
Dec 19th 2017
120
           have u been following kemi seba going Against the cfa franc
Dec 19th 2017
117
           *looks him up*
Dec 19th 2017
121
           why must he write about what we want him to?
Dec 19th 2017
130
                because he has said its an area he wants to explore and write about?
Dec 20th 2017
137
                     oh of course. hope and expectation is fine
Dec 20th 2017
165
                          well, i disagree.
Dec 20th 2017
167
                               ok understood..thanks for clarifying
Dec 21st 2017
185
i don't get what was dramatic about it.
Dec 19th 2017
126
      i just meant making the announcement about it
Dec 19th 2017
133
yeesh thats soft
Dec 19th 2017
89
disappointing ..
Dec 19th 2017
90
lol
Dec 19th 2017
105
Good for him
Dec 19th 2017
115
He made Richard Spencer's day
Dec 20th 2017
140
      Damn. This perspective is very interesting:
Dec 20th 2017
143
      It's not about Spencer. I think you're projecting a bit
Dec 20th 2017
144
      His actions say otherwise.
Dec 20th 2017
147
      I was referring to quitting Twitter
Dec 20th 2017
151
           I see. I can only assess what's there.
Dec 20th 2017
156
      Basically.
Dec 20th 2017
149
      Yep all of that
Dec 20th 2017
152
      ‘his followers’
Dec 20th 2017
158
           Ironic
Dec 20th 2017
159
      BRUH! Exactly!!!
Dec 21st 2017
181
      that's a Catch 22 that no one can win
Dec 21st 2017
186
Michael Harriot wrote a good piece
Dec 19th 2017
100
FATALITY
Dec 19th 2017
103
this is great.
Dec 19th 2017
104
flames
Dec 19th 2017
132
This dude seems confused on what neoliberalism means
Dec 20th 2017
175
      YUP. Hella disingenuous/dishonest
Dec 21st 2017
180
      Basically
Dec 21st 2017
183
      his take was clumsy
Dec 21st 2017
195
           It just simply doesn't follow...
Dec 21st 2017
197
He couldn't handle the pressure lol.
Dec 19th 2017
101
and even if that were true, that's human. so?
Dec 19th 2017
131
LoL @ folks being pissy about someone logging off....
Dec 19th 2017
112
one of the organizers of charlottesville at that.
Dec 19th 2017
122
Can someone explain why i should care about any of this.
Dec 20th 2017
138
If you don't care, then just don't care
Dec 20th 2017
142
RE: If you don't care, then just don't care
Dec 20th 2017
155
      Just listen to the first hr of this if you can...
Dec 20th 2017
157
Not interested in Black intellectual debate ?
Dec 20th 2017
153
You know you're doing something right when people come at you
Dec 20th 2017
150
Right? I'd be much more concerned if I was West
Dec 20th 2017
160
      People are giving this Nazi way too much credit
Dec 20th 2017
170
On West picking The Guardian as his platform:
Dec 20th 2017
161
buck fighting is sadly accurate here.
Dec 20th 2017
164
LMAO
Dec 20th 2017
172
      haha
Dec 20th 2017
174
eh. the guardian seems to be his platform of choice
Dec 20th 2017
168
quite the opposite
Dec 20th 2017
173
guardian posts a lot of articles on "both sides" of stuff
Dec 20th 2017
176
West picking The Guardian as his platform ? What ?
Dec 20th 2017
169
I can't get past West accusing anyone of
Dec 21st 2017
179
The Final Call responds to Jelani Cobb
Dec 21st 2017
182
Why are we so quick to dismiss West
Dec 21st 2017
187
West has been "out" since he started going at Barry. Coates
Dec 21st 2017
188
Out to who?
Dec 21st 2017
189
I think it largely is that simple.
Dec 21st 2017
190
RE: his reparations piece
Dec 21st 2017
196
      And that's why white people love him
Dec 23rd 2017
203
           Real talk
Dec 23rd 2017
211
Because
Dec 21st 2017
192
^^^ all of this. nm
Dec 22nd 2017
200
Most of us here say West has points about TNC
Dec 21st 2017
194
RE: Most of us here say West has points about TNC
Dec 22nd 2017
201
he seems to be intellectually dishonest and agenda-driven
Dec 21st 2017
198
West is doing it for the cllicks/ofay shine
Dec 23rd 2017
204
      I still love Dr. West's work but you're right about his pandering.....
Dec 24th 2017
212
as if any think piece by will change anything
Dec 23rd 2017
202
They love their privileges and comfortable lives too much to
Dec 23rd 2017
209
Robin DG Kelley weighs in
Dec 23rd 2017
205
Another good read
Dec 23rd 2017
206
he’s such an adult.
Dec 23rd 2017
208
Best assessment yet
Dec 23rd 2017
210
I'm suprised TNC lasted this long, dude is definitely
Dec 23rd 2017
207
Coates was propped up. A good writer, but still propped.
Dec 24th 2017
213
That’s unsettling. What think tank was this and what was it’s missio...
Dec 25th 2017
214
RE: I'm suprised TNC lasted this long, dude is definitely
Dec 26th 2017
216
"Coates and West in Jackson," from The Boston Review (swipe)
Dec 26th 2017
215
reading this again now hits different...
Sep 21st 2020
219
Why? Cornel is still Cornel, and Coates wasn't interested in a
Sep 21st 2020
220
      oh no doubt. I wasn't referring to him criticizing Coates
Sep 21st 2020
221
What happened to Sarah Bellum? n/m
Sep 22nd 2020
222

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