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Subject: "On: The theory of fluidity as it pertains to gender/sex, and race." Previous topic | Next topic
Vex_id
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65616 posts
Wed Mar-18-15 12:14 PM

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"On: The theory of fluidity as it pertains to gender/sex, and race."


          

So last night's Jay Smooth MSNBC debacle on "All In" reminded me
of the awkward moment Piers Morgan had with Janet Mock when discussing
gender theory.

It was ridiculous that Nancy Giles didn't do her homework prior to appearing
on a "race" segment with Jay Smooth, but it is reasonable to conclude that
a random person meeting Jay for the first time (without knowing of his media
presence) might not think he's black, based on appearance.

Which brings me to the point of this post: Why don't we discuss racial identity
with the same fluidity analysis as we do gender/sex?

After the Piers Morgan/Janet Mock discussion, everyone saw it fit to deliver
a teachable moment that presented a progressive discourse on gender identity:

"Biological sex refers to the equipment you’re born with, which comes with plenty of factors — there are many conditions that can make people intersex. Gender, on the other hand, is a fluid spectrum from man to woman to bigender to everything else that people choose to identify with. While your parts are biological, your gender pronouns are not — they were created by people, and they are chosen by people. They might wear clothes generally associated with other genders, they might not. They might use opposite, gender-neutral, or non-gendered pronouns…and again, they might not."

Why have we not adopted the same analysis for racial/ethnic identity? While our ethnographic DNA is the makeup we are born with (similar to biology in gender identity), it could be argued that "race" (alike gender) - could be subject to a similar spectrum of fluidity analysis that varies from person to person, depending upon how they self-identify. It seems that while we are more open to a flexible construction of fluidity as it pertains to gender identity, race theory and racial discourse is still very much planted in "black" and "white" - quite literally, with no effort to introduce fluidity or to accept multiplicity identity when it comes to something like race, even though many of us are comprised of multiples "races" as categorized in a census report.

Is it appropriate to keep race polarized in black and white identity? Is gender identity so inherently different that we can't apply the same analysis to race? Why or why not?




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On: The theory of fluidity as it pertains to gender/sex, and race. [View all] , Vex_id, Wed Mar-18-15 12:14 PM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
Good post. Short answer, I think we can and will
Mar 18th 2015
1
in a word: ignorance.
Mar 18th 2015
2
its been chalked up to and dismissed as #tragicmulatto
Mar 18th 2015
3
people brought it up with the raven symone thing i thinki
Mar 18th 2015
4
Ghouliani gave it a go with Obama
Mar 18th 2015
5
fabulous point.
Mar 18th 2015
7
RE: Ghouliani gave it a go with Obama
Mar 18th 2015
10
      RE: Ghouliani gave it a go with Obama
Mar 18th 2015
30
Race and gender ain't the same
Mar 18th 2015
6
Yeah, gender's a real thing.
Mar 18th 2015
8
      bingo
Mar 18th 2015
12
      it's no more 'real' than race.
Mar 18th 2015
13
           I disagree - in part.
Mar 18th 2015
16
           sex/gender.
Mar 18th 2015
22
           Almost exactly what I was going to say. Also
Mar 18th 2015
29
                . . .
Mar 18th 2015
37
           right.
Mar 18th 2015
20
           RE: right.
Mar 18th 2015
25
                RE: right.
Mar 18th 2015
28
                     RE: right.
Mar 18th 2015
34
                          thanks - I'm familiar w/ the academic sources.
Mar 20th 2015
82
           here's where it gets tricky
Mar 18th 2015
23
                yes/no.
Mar 18th 2015
31
                     I was using gender and sex interchangeably because
Mar 18th 2015
35
                          they're not the same though.
Mar 18th 2015
38
                               you're right, they're not, but there's overlap
Mar 18th 2015
39
                                    there is.
Mar 18th 2015
40
fluidity requires equality, IMO
Mar 18th 2015
9
I dunno that the fluidity of race identity isn't accepted.
Mar 18th 2015
11
lol I'm almost positive you were one of the first ones to
Mar 18th 2015
19
      i don't care if i was.
Mar 18th 2015
24
lol I got booed in here for asking the same thing a while back
Mar 18th 2015
14
the vessel can, at times, influence the message.
Mar 18th 2015
18
Race is a social construct that doesn't do complexity all that well.
Mar 18th 2015
15
yup
Mar 18th 2015
21
RE: Race is a social construct that doesn't do complexity all that well....
Mar 18th 2015
26
      I think Gender is a social construct. Sex is not.
Mar 18th 2015
33
           but sex is not a binary. There are people who don't fit neatly into m/f
Mar 18th 2015
41
                yup. they're intersexed.
Mar 18th 2015
42
                     Exactly and its' not limited to what we used to call "hermaphrodites"
Mar 18th 2015
44
                          but by sheer numbers, these are all edge cases. like extremely rare
Mar 18th 2015
47
                               yes but their existence is proof that sex isn't binary.
Mar 18th 2015
48
                                    No one said it is binary.
Mar 18th 2015
51
                                         Great. Bc it ain't.
Mar 18th 2015
52
                                              Ok, while we are at it. Tuesday ain't Monday.
Mar 18th 2015
59
                                                   and 4 is not 5.
Mar 18th 2015
63
                                                        I know. I merely want to point out that this is an unnecessary tangent.
Mar 19th 2015
67
                                                             it *kinda" is
Mar 19th 2015
68
Nancy Giles should have admitted that she played herself.
Mar 18th 2015
17
De-racination will only work when the benefits of whiteness go away
Mar 18th 2015
27
if its real, it wouldn't wait for society to be ready
Mar 18th 2015
32
      what's the "it" that you're referring to..?
Mar 18th 2015
36
           a person's ''alternate'' racial identity
Mar 18th 2015
43
                gotcha
Mar 18th 2015
46
people don't remember that the Feds put mixed race into the census?
Mar 18th 2015
45
Hmmph
Mar 18th 2015
49
that's true too
Mar 18th 2015
50
yuuuup. always.
Mar 18th 2015
54
actually no, there are people in this very post promoting 'fluidity'
Mar 18th 2015
55
Black has always existed as a multiplicity of identity.
Mar 18th 2015
53
passing is proof of the fluidity.
Mar 18th 2015
56
but that fluidity only exists within a very narrow range of the spectrum
Mar 18th 2015
57
      RE: but that fluidity only exists within a very narrow range of the spec...
Mar 18th 2015
62
      and?
Mar 18th 2015
64
      "racial fluidity", as discussed in the OP reeks of convenient side-stepp...
Mar 18th 2015
65
           you could've just kept it at this and called it a day:
Mar 19th 2015
69
                ooooor I could share my thoughts and voice an opinion
Mar 19th 2015
70
      *holding ya cape like*
Mar 22nd 2015
85
The post can end here.
Mar 18th 2015
58
RE: The post can end here.
Mar 18th 2015
61
      That isnt the point.
Mar 19th 2015
75
      it kinda is, though.
Mar 19th 2015
79
           RE: it kinda is, though.
Mar 21st 2015
84
      Because men still disproportionately have the drive, the ambition, the
Mar 19th 2015
77
           k.
Mar 19th 2015
78
yep
Mar 18th 2015
60
Maybe because race by skin color is a false human coping concept.
Mar 18th 2015
66
Do you, personally, wish to identify as other races, Vex?
Mar 19th 2015
71
I identify ethnographically, not racially. So, no.
Mar 19th 2015
72
      one could argue that's a luxury that isn't afforded to certain minoritie...
Mar 19th 2015
73
           quite true - which is why everyone's respective identity
Mar 19th 2015
74
I agree w/ Sarah Bellum & fluidity analysis doesn't address structural ...
Mar 19th 2015
76
maybe i'm not understanding the question
Mar 19th 2015
80
RE: maybe i'm not understanding the question
Mar 20th 2015
81
There is this kind of wrapped up discussion in lit, Larsen, Baldwin, et ...
Mar 20th 2015
83

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