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Subject: "RE: Why the desire to make it a binary choice? " Previous topic | Next topic
TheAlbionist
Member since Jul 04th 2011
3306 posts
Mon Jan-19-15 12:08 PM

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146. "RE: Why the desire to make it a binary choice? "
In response to In response to 143
Mon Jan-19-15 12:09 PM by TheAlbionist

  

          

>No, my argument is that talent does not exist and is an
>arbitrary characterization that has no ground in reality. A
>human being, despite any physical feature or "natural
>aptitude" as defined by society has everything they require to
>accomplish anything they put their mind and heart to. That is
>what I believe in a nutshell.
>
>If the latter is true, than "talent" is not real.

So you believe that a person born with a low natural aptitude for maths can expect to become a one-in-a-generation world-changing physicist on par with Stephen Hawking just by hard work?

You believe anyone could've been Michael Jackson if they'd started dance lessons early enough? Anyone could've been Leonardo Da Vinci?

That's a lovely way of thinking, but for anyone that's ever been in a classroom, it's entirely naive. I don't know if we have any teachers on the board, but they will tell you without question that some kids are more academic, some more sporty and some more social than others - generally the more 'successful' ones are those that learnt to make the best of their natural aptitudes.

As proven by 10,000 years of celebrated human genius, the only reliable way to become truly *elite* (I'm not talking NBA player, I'm talking Magic Johnson... I'm not talking Physics PHD, I'm talking Stephen Hawking) is to work phenomenally hard in the direction your body has a headstart.

>Yeah, I was just curious what people believed. I have stated
>many times that it is only *my personal* belief that talent
>does not exist but I quickly discovered that people wanted to
>police my belief and tell me that I was wrong. If you look
>this post over, I never once told anyone that they are wrong.
>I simply just don't believe it exists myself.

I don't want to police your belief - you can believe anything you want, I was just pointing out how sad I find that sort of statement. Your thoughts are very easy to reply to, let's face it. These aren't questions that all of us didn't think of when we were 15 and wanting to believe we could be anything we fancied... the same questions have been asked for millennia and answers are readily available for everything you've questioned. People are just trying to point you in the right directions... but when you try and help someone only to be told "WHATEVER YOU SAY, I'M NOT REALLY LISTENING" it is *incredibly* insulting and frustrating.

Anyway, if you're correct, you must be living an absolutely amazing life, working the best career any human has ever known of simply through your hard work. Congrats if so.

_______________________________

))<>((
forever.

  

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Do you believe in talent? [View all] , initiationofplato, Fri Jan-16-15 02:33 PM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
Talent is universal. Opportunity is not.
Jan 16th 2015
1
Can you expound on that a bit please?
Jan 16th 2015
2
yup all the shyt on the internet where people have talent and no deals
Jan 19th 2015
117
it makes perfect sense
Jan 16th 2015
3
yes, but you are missing one important thing
Jan 16th 2015
6
      im not missing anything. you just dont know how to apply it.
Jan 16th 2015
10
           Interseting, but I think we are in territory that requires data
Jan 16th 2015
21
                this is why i usually avoid your posting. and inboxes.
Jan 16th 2015
26
                     I don't see why you are always "ready at arms", so to speak
Jan 16th 2015
38
                          because i dont see any value in entertaining shit like this
Jan 16th 2015
49
                               Humbly, I will say that I do not believe you have inner peace
Jan 16th 2015
54
                                    right on bro.
Jan 16th 2015
56
                                         ..IS this Bartek?
Jan 18th 2015
114
i definitely believe in talent because i have one.
Jan 16th 2015
4
I can relate to this but not in the way you might expect
Jan 16th 2015
8
      why did you question talent?
Jan 16th 2015
9
           Because I grew up believing I had no talent for drawing
Jan 16th 2015
13
                dont understand since drawing a face after taking a class
Jan 16th 2015
14
                     talent is being able to draw the face WITHOUT a class
Jan 16th 2015
18
                     that's precisely my point. that there is no talent at all.
Jan 16th 2015
22
                          so this is the we are all equal loser talk i gotcha
Jan 16th 2015
37
                          I don't see why you would come to that conclusion
Jan 16th 2015
39
                          talent is just natural aptitude. to say there's no such thing is false.
Jan 16th 2015
61
                               I don't mean this as an argument, but I personally just don't believe it...
Jan 16th 2015
64
                                    im sorry but youre wrong
Jan 16th 2015
78
                                         Personally, I don't like telling someone they are wrong
Jan 16th 2015
84
                                              but there is in fact, right and wrong
Jan 16th 2015
90
                                                   not in this case
Jan 16th 2015
93
                                                        you have a talent for overintellectualizing and missing the point
Jan 16th 2015
101
                                                             i'm not arguing haha
Jan 17th 2015
102
                                                                  no really. you are missing the point.
Jan 17th 2015
109
                                                                       ;)
Jan 17th 2015
113
no matter how hard u try, you may not be able to sing that good...
Jan 16th 2015
5
I think its psychological
Jan 16th 2015
12
      how would u break down the following scenario?
Jan 16th 2015
15
      well, that's a hypothetical situation
Jan 16th 2015
24
           right but to have 2 siblings from the same household who are better
Jan 16th 2015
30
                Isn't it primarily based on interest then?
Jan 16th 2015
41
                     i think the first scenario i presented is a realistic one that takes
Jan 16th 2015
65
                          your scenario only has 1 possible answer, you do see that right?
Jan 16th 2015
66
                               evn if thts the case if your theory is absolute as u say it shld be able
Jan 16th 2015
70
      you may be able to sing but you can't SANG
Jan 16th 2015
19
           Ha!
Jan 16th 2015
25
Social Media has bastardized talent and the definition of...
Jan 16th 2015
7
Frederick Douglass once stated that 'you can't have the fruit w/o the
Jan 16th 2015
11
well there is a distinction to be made
Jan 16th 2015
16
RE: That's not necessarily true at all
Jan 16th 2015
23
      oh? lol how so?
Jan 16th 2015
29
           A lot of your ideas are based on assumptions.
Jan 16th 2015
47
           lulz
Jan 16th 2015
51
           how is his point even arguable???
Jan 16th 2015
79
           It could be a matter of approach or level of committement to the field
Jan 16th 2015
52
                you are adding variables
Jan 16th 2015
53
                     How convinient to create an experiment
Jan 16th 2015
57
                     RE: How convinient to create an experiment
Jan 16th 2015
96
                          Him and I can't seem to communicate.
Jan 16th 2015
98
                               RE: Him and I can't seem to communicate.
Jan 18th 2015
116
                                    That's what I got as well, however
Jan 19th 2015
121
                     RE: I did add anything
Jan 16th 2015
59
                          yes, you are.
Jan 16th 2015
62
                               No you're the one who's actually adding other variables
Jan 16th 2015
68
                                    dude cmon.
Jan 16th 2015
71
                                         Maybe I'm not making myself clear so let me use a sports analogy
Jan 16th 2015
73
                                              thats true, but only half the story.
Jan 16th 2015
74
                                                   So ultimately you're agreeing w/the quote I used from Douglass then lol
Jan 16th 2015
76
                                                        no amount of work ethic could turn Donald Royal into MJ
Jan 16th 2015
81
                                                             No ones arguing that lol - we're talking abt two ppl/or athletes in this
Jan 16th 2015
88
                                                                  what is "god given" talent?
Jan 16th 2015
94
                                                                       I define it as having a naturally discernible aptness for something
Jan 17th 2015
111
                                                                            Some of the greatest minds had no "natural" aptitude.
Jan 19th 2015
127
that's one way of seeing that quote
Jan 16th 2015
99
Takes both talent & luck.
Jan 16th 2015
17
Beauty economy? please expound.
Jan 16th 2015
27
^^^^^
Jan 16th 2015
33
That is the most quintessential example of luck
Jan 16th 2015
35
You are discounting Will Power/Passion as an element of talent.
Jan 16th 2015
20
^ talent is a sickness. Sickness in a good way.
Jan 16th 2015
28
I'm confused, where did I discount passion?
Jan 16th 2015
43
even some DOGS have more talent vs others
Jan 16th 2015
31
Genetics, Drive and Opportunity.
Jan 16th 2015
32
Definitely a cocktail of things.
Jan 16th 2015
34
      if you ever see a 5lbs 8 week old puppy pin down a 20lbs pig
Jan 16th 2015
36
I have seen a study on this.
Jan 16th 2015
44
      drug dogs also need to have a specific temperment = not taught
Jan 16th 2015
48
           You call it "talent" I call it character traits.
Jan 16th 2015
55
yes
Jan 16th 2015
40
I think that applies to all of us
Jan 16th 2015
45
I dont think anyone is born talented
Jan 16th 2015
42
that is my view as well
Jan 16th 2015
46
but what if youre REALLY good at something without having to work
Jan 16th 2015
67
not so much until my son was born
Jan 16th 2015
50
That's a really cool story
Jan 16th 2015
60
talent is real. i couldn't imagine not being able to identify mine.
Jan 16th 2015
58
yeah some people are just better
Jan 16th 2015
63
no, and michael jordan is my example for why.
Jan 16th 2015
69
you could not have picked a worse example
Jan 16th 2015
72
      yeah, that one took a hop and veered toward the backstop.
Jan 16th 2015
92
I know of natural talent for instance
Jan 16th 2015
75
This needs to be it's own post.
Jan 16th 2015
77
It does for instance many promient athletes have what we know as Aires
Jan 16th 2015
87
      There are 88 constellations in the sky.
Jan 17th 2015
104
           Actually there are more depending on the system used.
Jan 17th 2015
106
RE: I know of natural talent for instance
Jan 16th 2015
97
      ALmost every prominent writer, speaker or author has
Jan 17th 2015
107
           RE: ALmost every prominent writer, speaker or author has
Jan 17th 2015
112
                Funny these planets and moons have effects on
Jan 19th 2015
119
                     Science has attempted to measure these "effects"
Jan 19th 2015
129
                          Lol I love how you speak for science but oh to the contrary
Jan 19th 2015
141
                               It's just a myth. Take a look here:
Jan 19th 2015
145
                                    Can do this all day
Jan 19th 2015
150
                                         What is your point?
Jan 19th 2015
151
All I know is that man is the only creature that can ask 'why' or 'how'?...
Jan 16th 2015
80
There are distinct differences between man and animals, however
Jan 16th 2015
85
      If science has proven apes don't then ants can't be better off
Jan 19th 2015
152
Talent and hard wor are distinct, but often
Jan 16th 2015
82
This is almost like the
Jan 16th 2015
83
Except nothing like it at all.
Jan 16th 2015
86
Sadly, if I have one I haven't discovered it yet
Jan 16th 2015
89
Talent is very, very real, dude, come on
Jan 16th 2015
91
I honestly just don't believe in it.
Jan 16th 2015
95
      dude, i could have been in the gym 23 hours a day
Jan 16th 2015
100
           Haha, those are absolutes I can't relate with
Jan 17th 2015
103
           RE: Haha, those are absolutes I can't relate with
Feb 04th 2015
154
                RE: Haha, those are absolutes I can't relate with
Feb 04th 2015
155
                     less drugs, dude, less drugs.
Feb 07th 2015
157
           competition and comparing is the root of the belief in talent
Jan 17th 2015
108
this post actually turned out pretty good
Jan 17th 2015
105
Lebron James is a talented athlete
Jan 17th 2015
110
Basketball is not an accurate measure of human ability.
Jan 19th 2015
126
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savant_syndrome
Jan 18th 2015
115
If you believe in Evolution, this is a no brainer.
Jan 19th 2015
118
Just look at the Jacksons.
Jan 19th 2015
120
The Jacksons were raised in a home which nurtured
Jan 19th 2015
122
      he's saying the diff. btwn Michael and his siblings was talent
Jan 19th 2015
123
      Not at all.
Jan 19th 2015
124
           Because he was more talented.
Jan 19th 2015
130
                It's perfectly okay for me to acknolwedge your belief
Jan 19th 2015
131
                     Word. I "believe" in genetics, you don't.
Jan 19th 2015
132
                          :)
Jan 19th 2015
134
      Why the desire to make it a binary choice?
Jan 19th 2015
125
           RE: Why the desire to make it a binary choice?
Jan 19th 2015
128
                RE: Why the desire to make it a binary choice?
Jan 19th 2015
133
                     RE: Why the desire to make it a binary choice?
Jan 19th 2015
135
                          RE: Why the desire to make it a binary choice?
Jan 19th 2015
136
                          RE: Why the desire to make it a binary choice?
Jan 19th 2015
138
                               RE: Why the desire to make it a binary choice?
Jan 19th 2015
140
                                    RE: Why the desire to make it a binary choice?
Jan 19th 2015
143
                                        
                                              RE: Why the desire to make it a binary choice?
Jan 19th 2015
149
                          "Nothing you can say will change my mind"
Jan 19th 2015
137
                               Don't see a problem with my statement.
Jan 19th 2015
139
                                    It's not about changing other people's minds.
Jan 19th 2015
142
                                         I have not seen any compelling and objective arguments yet.
Jan 19th 2015
144
                                              LOL
Jan 19th 2015
147
                                                   Ahhh classic, passive aggressive insults.
Jan 19th 2015
148
Unequivocally
Jan 19th 2015
153
Of course talent exists. That's not even debatable.
Feb 04th 2015
156
The Dangers of Believing That Talent Is Innate (swipe)
Feb 10th 2015
158
Thanks for posting, great article!
Feb 10th 2015
159
interesting
Feb 10th 2015
160

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