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>think you got stuck in "debate O_E mode" talking about Pulp >Fiction - LOL.
I forgot we were discussing Grindhouse because the post I was replying to didn't mention it by name...
>>If it's shared by a consensus of critics and movie-viewers >>alike, yes, you may just be on to something. > >the comparison was being made to grindhouse, and the consensus >of movie-viewers seems to be no on that.
True. Personally I think the argument can definitely be made that Grindhouse, as a double-feature, trailers and all - was very artistic and original.
Death Proof as a stand-alone movie? It's artful as shit compared to most "slasher" / killer movies (which are generally viewed as disposable, mindless entertainment, with a few excpetions).
I really need to see it again; I just got the DVDs so I'll have to post WHY it was artful once I've done so.
>yeah but why? The Dark Knight was like that for me , but I can >tell you why I thought that.
Again, let me watch them again and I'll probably have responses.
>>I gave a whole bunch of reasons why I loved Pulp Fiction - >>pretty much everything about it: "the tone and style, an >>awesome interwoven plot full of all the elements I love >>(action, drama, humor), cool plot structure, great acting, >the >>beloved dialogue, fascinating characters, good music... and >it >>exudes visceral coolness." >> >>All of these are pretty concrete things, except for >"visceral >>coolness", which IMO is essentially the "can't put into >words" >>quality that some art has on the viewer. It's probably >mostly >>generated by the tone and style; the dialogue and action >help >>too. > >right, those are good reasons. I'm not really seeing anything >similar given for grindhouse though.
I know. I'll have to revisit. I know for a fact that the style of both Grindhouse flicks was really cool to me. I loved the plots for both, they both had awesome action scenes, and the dialogue (esp. Death Proof) was very good. But again, these are reasons why I loved them, not why they're necessarily "artful." That requires a closer viewing and analysis.
> consensus I don't care so much about. I tend to be more
That's just the thing - to me, consensus suggests that most everyone found something to like. So I probably will to.
Now a single critic's opinion I don't trust for shit, but if they all agree... it's probably either
A) a pretentious arty joint that will bore me (which is why I also try to check out the average moviegoer's responses - my friends most first and foremost, blogs, shit like that), or
B) a really good flick.
Consensus can be very helpful, and despite OE's insanity, I don't think it's very common for people to "cosign the consensus just because."
>>I understand that Grindhouse was a love-it or hate-it flick, >>so some critics and people won't like it, but I think the >>majority (granted, not nearly as universal as Pulp Fiction) >>enjoyed it. > >exhibit A on why I don't put much stock in critics consensus.
You didn't like Grindhouse as a whole? Including the trailers and "feel" that the double feature presentation created? Or you just didn't like Death Proof? Did you like Planet Terror? I'm curious.
>are you still talking about PF, or grindhouse? I'm talking >about grindhouse, and I don't think it had much general fan >support because the shit bombed horribly.
It wasn't marketed well, IMO. The idea of an incredibly violent, intentionally "low-fi," 3+ hour double feature was clearly not everyone's cup of tea. I think the DVDs are doing pretty well, but I really don't care about sales, so I'm not going to belabor the point.
If most people didn't like it, that's fine. I still did.
>>>I like most of Tarantino's movies and I thought it >>>sucked. >> >>Wow. To each his own. Personally, I just don't understand >how >>one could watch that movie and not enjoy it. >>Unless you're turned off by violence, drugs, or bad language >>(e.g., old people)... but I doubt that's the case. > >again, grindhouse, not PF.
Gotcha. Yeah, I can see how one would not like Grindhouse. It doesn't have the nearly-universal (ha!) appeal of Pulp Fiction.
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