>think you got stuck in "debate O_E mode" talking about Pulp
>Fiction - LOL.

I forgot we were discussing Grindhouse because the post I was replying to didn't mention it by name...


>>If it's shared by a consensus of critics and movie-viewers
>>alike, yes, you may just be on to something.
>
>the comparison was being made to grindhouse, and the consensus
>of movie-viewers seems to be no on that.

True. Personally I think the argument can definitely be made that Grindhouse, as a double-feature, trailers and all - was very artistic and original.

Death Proof as a stand-alone movie? It's artful as shit compared to most "slasher" / killer movies (which are generally viewed as disposable, mindless entertainment, with a few excpetions).

I really need to see it again; I just got the DVDs so I'll have to post WHY it was artful once I've done so.


>yeah but why? The Dark Knight was like that for me , but I can
>tell you why I thought that.

Again, let me watch them again and I'll probably have responses.


>>I gave a whole bunch of reasons why I loved Pulp Fiction -
>>pretty much everything about it: "the tone and style, an
>>awesome interwoven plot full of all the elements I love
>>(action, drama, humor), cool plot structure, great acting,
>the
>>beloved dialogue, fascinating characters, good music... and
>it
>>exudes visceral coolness."
>>
>>All of these are pretty concrete things, except for
>"visceral
>>coolness", which IMO is essentially the "can't put into
>words"
>>quality that some art has on the viewer. It's probably
>mostly
>>generated by the tone and style; the dialogue and action
>help
>>too.
>
>right, those are good reasons. I'm not really seeing anything
>similar given for grindhouse though.

I know. I'll have to revisit. I know for a fact that the style of both Grindhouse flicks was really cool to me. I loved the plots for both, they both had awesome action scenes, and the dialogue (esp. Death Proof) was very good. But again, these are reasons why I loved them, not why they're necessarily "artful." That requires a closer viewing and analysis.


> consensus I don't care so much about. I tend to be more

That's just the thing - to me, consensus suggests that most everyone found something to like. So I probably will to.

Now a single critic's opinion I don't trust for shit, but if they all agree... it's probably either

A) a pretentious arty joint that will bore me (which is why I also try to check out the average moviegoer's responses - my friends most first and foremost, blogs, shit like that), or

B) a really good flick.

Consensus can be very helpful, and despite OE's insanity, I don't think it's very common for people to "cosign the consensus just because."


>>I understand that Grindhouse was a love-it or hate-it flick,
>>so some critics and people won't like it, but I think the
>>majority (granted, not nearly as universal as Pulp Fiction)
>>enjoyed it.
>
>exhibit A on why I don't put much stock in critics consensus.

You didn't like Grindhouse as a whole? Including the trailers and "feel" that the double feature presentation created? Or you just didn't like Death Proof? Did you like Planet Terror? I'm curious.


>are you still talking about PF, or grindhouse? I'm talking
>about grindhouse, and I don't think it had much general fan
>support because the shit bombed horribly.

It wasn't marketed well, IMO. The idea of an incredibly violent, intentionally "low-fi," 3+ hour double feature was clearly not everyone's cup of tea. I think the DVDs are doing pretty well, but I really don't care about sales, so I'm not going to belabor the point.

If most people didn't like it, that's fine. I still did.


>>>I like most of Tarantino's movies and I thought it
>>>sucked.
>>
>>Wow. To each his own. Personally, I just don't understand
>how
>>one could watch that movie and not enjoy it.
>>Unless you're turned off by violence, drugs, or bad language
>>(e.g., old people)... but I doubt that's the case.
>
>again, grindhouse, not PF.

Gotcha. Yeah, I can see how one would not like Grindhouse. It doesn't have the nearly-universal (ha!) appeal of Pulp Fiction.