>First of all you never responded to my other post. But hey I
>am a nice guy I still will respond to this one, even though
>you skipped my other aruguments.

i cant follow all these posts...soon enough i am going to leave you with the trophy...i cant find them all...my bad

>>so 11 means 12 now like 1 means 3? i didnt do so well in
>>math..only lvl 2 regents...so help a brovah out....
>
>Response: No, that means that the apostles were refered to
>as the 12. That is another name for them.

never heard that....maybe you are reading into it...what about 10 or 11 or 12..not just 12 my friend...3 totaly different accounts......

i am not going to go into saul saying 1 to live and once to die..the resurection would be in the spirit..then jesus rising from the dead and had to disguise himself as a gardener...with mary magdlane (sp) "she supposed him to be the gardner...who seekest thou?.....i came to carry off (big heavy tall) jesus....woman, seekest the LIVING among the DEAD" what was jesus thinking? they will kill him again...and what spirit wants fish and bread with holes in his hands?

>>>itself (not worship..worship is more than prostrating...if
>>that was the case..we muslims worship the black
>>stone..intention is the elixr as the sufis say. murder vs
>>self defence) man, as a command from who they
>>worship.....and man worships allah (in theory) because allah
>>also says in the quran:
>
>Response: Well personally I think the whole black stone
>thing is kind of wierd, but hey thats just me. (abraham did it...the mispha? and the jews bowed before the stone alter during passover sacrifice...but then again you wouldnt do that...only jesus would....wwjd? he would be a jew) So I take it (cool....i take alot too)
>from this verse that man is higher on God's list than
>angels? That brings up another arguement then, (if you agree
>with this). Look at what Satan says:
>
>" Then began Satan to whisper suggestions to them, bringing
>openly before there minds all their shame... He said ' Your
>Lord Only forbid you this tree, Lest you should become
>angels or such beings as live for ever. (sura 7:20-25)

satan is lying.....astonishing huh? who woulda thunk it?

>Here's the problem. Why is Satan tempting man by promising
>him that he would be like angels or become immortal, when we
>already saw that man was created higher than angels, and why
>would man fear death when he was already pure and sinless?
>>so did he or didnt he leave a sign (i know isa did, your
>>hispanic jesus god dude to you maybe)....in acts which came
>>after mark claim he did? who was right saul of tarsus, or
>>mark?

satan is lying......i know its hard to believe...but he is.

>Response: Actually its Peter talking not Paul. First of all
>Mark does not say that Jesus did not do miracles. Jesus did
>not do miracles for the unbeilevers from that time on. What
>Peter is referring to is the fact that Jesus did miracles
>period. (does not matter when). Those miracles that he did
>during his ministry pointed to him being the messiah.

my bad...thats what i get for not going to church.

>>dont slide over the question....one says yes and the other
>>no....this is the holy (pure) bible..
>
>Response: You never read Mark within its context. Pharisees
>wanted him to do a miracle, Jesus declined. Thats all.

would you dare to read the quran in its context (and i did read mark in its context)? and iif so would you dear to get fiqh (understanding/law) in it? i think not....soooooowhy should i post all of mark? he said "this sinning generation gets no sign" its in context...now you shouldnt take it out....

>>>according to the scholors b4 us (ghazzali included)..tawaba
>>(returning...turning around/repentence..like tawaf..the
>>thing we do around the kaabaa) absolves any sin..if one was
>>to die in a state of kufur (covering up/rejection...like
>>kufs=socks..kufi="hat like thing") then shirk (polytheism)
>>is unforgivable...allah gives us every second to change our
>>ways and grants us alot of slack......see the context of the
>>word forgiveth..meaning will not...allah is beyone time.
>
>
>Response: Hold up. That is not what the passages says. It
>does not mention death nor does it mention a second chance.
>Where do the scholars get this from. Look at sura 4:116:

noooooooope...nowhere does it mention a second chance...fiqh my friend...fiqh...understanding what you read..reading comprehension.....shakespare would be studied in his context...so would twain..even sallenger....but you know...the quran doesnt deserve that does it? i am giving you the context as i have studied it...even before we get any understanding of arabic for the quran (not just how to order chicken wings in egypt)...we must understand fiqh...even if its in our language (check iyha ulum id deen by abu hamiid al ghazzali...good read...i think its in volume 1 or 3, i read them long ago...and still want ijazah in them..classical scholorship...looooooooooooooog from now..insha allah)...the point is to those who know, told others and wrote it down when they asked what each ayat meant...check ibn kathir or an easier tafsir (explaination) of the quran.....allah warns us on folloowing our conjecture..and that wasnt mine...that was the quuran the way the scholors and the companions of the messenger (saw) knew it....ill give you an example...

we commit shirk alllllllllllllllll day....muslims take tv as their god...sex...whateva...thats internal shirk...the shirk (polytheism...actually sharing/associating/adding)....the point is that allah says in the quran at the end of ayats of warning "wa allahu al-gafur ar-rahim" or "and allah is the oft-forgiging most compassionate" (the word rahim is from the word rham, or womb...the mothers womb is a mercy to civilazation or the ummah...from umm, mother)..but allah tells us that his mercy covers his rath..and promises to have mercy on all of us (even those who get burned alive, they will never see the "fire" in "hell" (whateva...no such place as "hell" but i dont want to confuse you..thats why translations are poor because they cater to converts with lay-terms for actual different concepts)....regardless allah also says in the tense and mentions in other places in the quran that he forgives all...but warns us about dying in a state of shirk...the sufis warn about hidden shirk...because whats in, must come out...so the muslim is worried about open shirk...the mumin is worried about hidden shirk, and the muhsin doesnt even know we are still here......ihsan is something ill try not to discuss...but ill wet you pallet...they say "die b4 you die".......

>" God forgiveth not (the sin of) joining gods with Him; But
>he forgiveth whom he pleaseth other sins than this; one who
>joins other gods with God hath strayed far away."
>
>Sorry Troll you are reading into the text here, you offer no
>intrepretation of the text itself.

once again not me...thats the way the tafsir explaiins it...without fiqh...the ayats (signs/stars) are just a bunch of scattered nonsense...but not so to an astronomer (or an astrologer as a mattter of fact).....check the charts...they explaiin whats said......plus, this stuff s basic...you are discussing usul here usul is the most basic islaic science all new muslims must learn....it covers who allah is (not ta man in the sky on a chair)...then it asks who were the messengers..and what allah expects of us....why he did this...etc...a good book on it is the begining of the risala if ibn abi zayid....its easy and deals with things on "our" level///if you think you advanced in it...check the hikam of ibn ata'allah....or meaning of man by sayiidi ali al jamal....uthman ibn fodio covers some of it iin a great book called tariq al jannah....thats if you want to really fiind real advanced ways to diss islam....cause this stuff is simple....so simple the ppeople who i know that reads it (and are muslim)...finds it halarious....cause its what i should be teaching a kid at age 8..before he/she is responsible to pray (puberty...the onset of adulthood)
>
>
>....you, on the
>>other hand have the freedom to do what you want...when you
>>want in this world...only to have your prison in the
>>next........
>
>Response: Again, you are not dealing with the text.

yes it is.......readiing comprehension.....but then again i admit i am a troll, and i can be confusing at times...sorry if i am.....astagafurallah.......

>>you left out a few of them....but thats ok...i dont like
>>talking about this stuff much...and i do believe that this
>>topic is being stretched...
>
>Response: No, I responded to them all. They are up above
>look at " But the Quran says"

oh, i once again said i am leaving this long thing soon (should have a long time ago...just fiigured your questions were becoming genuine...not so you would become muslim....but so you can understand soomethhing more than your shell (and same goes for me or any others who treck on thiis pile of internet fodder)

look, you win........say what you want...you have anything important to say...pm me...wanna trash islam...join the club, nothing you say is new......the problem is that those who dont live it....sometimes never "get it". but once again sorry for my crazy woords in the begining....i find it funny to flame.....not personal..but this is the internet...and my name is reflective the fact that on message boards....we are all trolls...all we do is pimp point of views..with no consessions for the fact that someone else feels different.....ill say that i dont like republicans (or democrats)..but reading expertise gloating on their win is something for me to stay away from....read that thing...nothing by opinion pimping.....and funny enough...i am guilty of that here....i hate these things (which is why i never joined the boards in 2000)...untill i came up with the idea to become a pimp for the underdawg.....like me..or better yet, anyone who says something..i just try to give another spin.(under the bridge is lurking, my wife was more frequent ton these boards back in the day...like 3 months ago..lol)..so my flaming is not personal to you.......smile, you still alive....ii think ill join in on the tech boards...cause this side is getting llama (lamer) by the minute...and i do nothing to help that............smile, you still alive......

later............may come backk when i see the old stuff people used to post...interesting stuff...nuff wit hthe adjenda pimping.

ps...you win.

_________________________
Life is but a dream,
Drifting on a stream, a stream,
Consciously it seems,
All of what remains,
Ego Brain,
And they shame,
Shame, love after it rains,
You see my pain is real,
Watch my world dissolve,
And pretend tha