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Subject: "Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience..." This topic is locked.
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McDeezNuts
Member since Jun 03rd 2002
5663 posts
Tue Apr-01-03 06:18 AM

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"Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience..."


  

          

First, this may not belong in Activist, but I sure as hell didn't want to put it in General (for obvious reasons) and it fits nowhere else...

Anyway, so I was just musing about predestination vs. free will, and the belief (that some people have) that God is omniscient.

Disclaimer - this discussion will be of little or no interest to people who do not believe in some sort of divine being, so don't waste the time and space in here discussing God's existence... For the sake of this discussion, we are operating under the assumption that there IS a divine being, named God for convenience sake. Okay, there are three main statements, and then three questions about them.

A- God is omniscient
B- God knows the future before it happens
C- We have free will

I'm curious which of these you believe, and more importantly, which of the following statements are true?

1 - if A, then B?
2 - if B, then not C?
3 - if C, then not B, then not A?

Let me explain these questions in terms for those unfamiliar with philosophic logic:

1 - Does omniscience necessarily mean God knows the future?
2 - If God knows the future, can we possibly have free will? If He knows what will happen, aren't our choices already set?
3 - If we have free will and God doesn't know our choices (and therefore the future), can he be considered omniscient?

What do you think? Personally I believe in free will (although I do think there is evidence of divine intervention on earth) but I wonder if/how God can be all-knowing and all-powerful when we have free will? Somehow I want it both ways...

  

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Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience... [View all] , McDeezNuts, Tue Apr-01-03 06:18 AM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
where are you getting these premises from?
Apr 01st 2003
1
I just made them up, it's not for an essay or anything.
Apr 01st 2003
2
      question things?
Apr 01st 2003
4
           Questioning is necessary for true faith and belief
Apr 01st 2003
5
           you're setting up parameters again.
Apr 01st 2003
7
           RE: you're setting up parameters again.
Apr 01st 2003
11
                LOL. dude. you're doing it again.
Apr 01st 2003
13
                     RE: LOL. dude. you're doing it again.
Apr 01st 2003
16
                     perhaps he "believed" in God.
Apr 01st 2003
18
                     LOL. I see what you're saying. But...
Apr 01st 2003
19
                          look.
Apr 01st 2003
21
           oh yeah.
Apr 01st 2003
10
                I definitely see what you're saying.
Apr 01st 2003
14
                     if i were you...
Apr 01st 2003
17
                          Cool, thanks.
Apr 01st 2003
20
           i don't agree w/ that either.
Apr 03rd 2003
61
Free Will vs Freedom
Apr 01st 2003
3
all are true
Apr 01st 2003
6
RE: all are true
Apr 01st 2003
8
      god doesn't hope
Apr 01st 2003
9
      example of one that is carnal minded
Apr 01st 2003
12
           how else will you know God?
Apr 01st 2003
15
                RE: how else will you know God?
Apr 01st 2003
22
                     huh?
Apr 01st 2003
23
      that's always been my conundrum...
Apr 01st 2003
24
           angels are different from men...
Apr 01st 2003
25
           RE: that's always been my conundrum...
Apr 02nd 2003
31
RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 01st 2003
26
RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 02nd 2003
30
      RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 02nd 2003
32
      exactly
Apr 07th 2003
107
      RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 02nd 2003
33
God predestines all. Man has no freewill.
Apr 01st 2003
27
here is some biblical support:
Apr 01st 2003
28
RE: here is some biblical support:
Apr 02nd 2003
34
      please be mindful of
Apr 02nd 2003
36
cool
Apr 02nd 2003
29
RE: cool
Apr 02nd 2003
39
      .
Apr 02nd 2003
40
           Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 02nd 2003
42
                RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 02nd 2003
43
                RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 02nd 2003
44
                RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 03rd 2003
59
                     RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 03rd 2003
63
                          RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 04th 2003
72
                               YEAH!!!
Apr 04th 2003
76
                                    RE: YEAH!!!
Apr 04th 2003
78
                RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 02nd 2003
49
                     RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 03rd 2003
51
                          RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 03rd 2003
53
                               RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 03rd 2003
57
                                    RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 03rd 2003
58
                                    RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 03rd 2003
68
                                    RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 03rd 2003
67
                                         RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 04th 2003
71
                                              RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 04th 2003
74
                                                   RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 04th 2003
77
                                                        RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 04th 2003
81
                                                             RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 10th 2003
110
                                                                  RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 10th 2003
112
                                                                       RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 11th 2003
113
How did you utilize the "Hebrew" words like that in you
Apr 02nd 2003
41
In Yoruba...
Apr 02nd 2003
35
that's the closest to what i've believed
Apr 03rd 2003
62
      i know huh?
Apr 03rd 2003
70
RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 02nd 2003
37
RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 02nd 2003
45
      RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 02nd 2003
46
      I use the word...
Apr 02nd 2003
50
      RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 03rd 2003
55
           RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 03rd 2003
64
linearity/constancy of time
Apr 02nd 2003
38
RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 02nd 2003
47
RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 02nd 2003
48
      NO! Damn, closed minded a bit, are we?
Apr 03rd 2003
52
           RE: NO! Damn, closed minded a bit, are we?
Apr 03rd 2003
54
                Didn't mean to jump to conclusions...
Apr 04th 2003
73
                     Question
Apr 05th 2003
84
                          RE: Question
Apr 07th 2003
98
                               RE: Question
Apr 07th 2003
104
other important scriptures/predestination
Apr 03rd 2003
56
i'll read the replies, but my 1st inclination
Apr 03rd 2003
60
Hey I didnt read the whole thread but......
Apr 03rd 2003
65
      The Best Response Thus Far
Apr 04th 2003
80
      RE: The Best Response Thus Far
Apr 04th 2003
82
           RE: The Best Response Thus Far
Apr 05th 2003
86
                ...
Apr 05th 2003
88
                     completely within the topic.......minus the big 3 view
Apr 06th 2003
90
                          RE: completely within the topic.......minus the big 3 v
Apr 06th 2003
91
                               RE: completely within the topic.......minus the big 3 v
Apr 07th 2003
106
      this is important
Apr 05th 2003
83
           RE: this is important
Apr 05th 2003
87
No answer but,
Apr 03rd 2003
66
God is omniscient NOT omnipotent...
Apr 03rd 2003
69
RE: God is omniscient NOT omnipotent...
Apr 04th 2003
75
RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 04th 2003
79
God body..
Apr 05th 2003
85
The Universe is my Body, BUT
Apr 06th 2003
89
      RE: The Universe is my Body, BUT
Apr 06th 2003
92
There is no spoon
Apr 06th 2003
93
More on this
Apr 06th 2003
94
My perspective on free will...
Apr 06th 2003
95
RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 06th 2003
96
participate if you want to...
Apr 07th 2003
97
actually, this was the disclaimer
Apr 07th 2003
99
this is good discussion material...
Apr 07th 2003
100
RE: this is good discussion material...
Apr 07th 2003
101
well...
Apr 07th 2003
103
      RE: well...
Apr 07th 2003
105
RE: this is good discussion material...
Apr 07th 2003
102
saleh's 2 cents
Apr 08th 2003
108
Archive please
Apr 10th 2003
109
My thoughts...
Apr 10th 2003
111

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