>greetings,
>
>i have to admit that i have not made my way through the
>whole thread, however, i feel compelled to reply to some of
>what has been said from my own personal understanding and
>relationship with "god".

from your personal understanding and relationship with God how is your faith established? Im no saint and I pray God has mercy on me but I read the bible and except it as being the truth, the "word of God". This is my personal understanding and in order to keep my relationship with the Him, I study his word. All of this is my faith!


>first, i often find these conversations to be extremely
>frustrating, if for no other reason most ppl who sit around
>and talk about religion are trying to not connect with
>another person through their ideas, worldview, intepretation
>of their world (god) but instead say "look there is only way
>to do this thing, and i go it." whats even more
>frustrating is that it is often these ppl who are the most
>joyless, live the most unfullfilling, blind, and one
>dimensional existences.

Would it really be "frustrating" if you humbled yourself and listened? maybe pick up the book and read it.(smile) According to the word, there is only one God and one way to serve him. There is no in between, you either believe or you dont. "I got it" well yes, some of us become proud when we have knowledge of the word and it's not Christ-like but the scriptures are given for reproof. I kinda understand your "frustration", but mines is 10 times greater when people speak blasphemy. If you havent read the book then how can you become frustrated by what you know so little of? you have to get some understanding first before you can even think of combatting Christians. It ainet that I got it and Im neither joyless, blind or one dimentional, just a zeal for God!


>second, the funny thing i realized after being raised a
>christian my whole life (if i missed weekly service more
>then 2 times before 16 i swear i can't remember it) and then
>being exposed to a world full of poetry, music, biology,
>chemistry, pysics, islam, hindu, whatever rocks ur world, is
>that is all related. . .that each of these pursuits offer
>the person who is using it an chance to look at their world
>and try to give it meaning, substance, something they can
>put their hands one. . .make their own. so for me this only
>makes me more frustrated when anyone (and i'm' not wholly
>innocent of this) tries to say look this is the only way.

Being raised a Christian was it not understood that you give God the glory and he will direct your path?

>that's all to say is this. . .my understanding of god and
>his faliable/infaliable nature is this:
>
>>>I'm willing to go thru what
>>>>you call contradiction and the things that dont make sense.
>>>>There is nothing contradicting about the book, it's like you
>>>>said, " things dont make sense". They will once you get an
>>>>understanding.
>
>my father and i go back and forth about this all the time,
>he firmly beleives that colleged screwed me royally. its
>never made any sense to me that god, infaliable as we like
>to make him out to be, as perfect and static as we make him
>out to be. . .would see fit to speak to everyone in english.
> so if i'm born in savannah, georgia, or kingston jamaica,
>or cape town, south africa, or jikarta, malaysia, or
>calcutta, india, or dublin, ireland. . .or. . .any of these
>places with their unique cultural history and present
>circustance, unique languages, and then lets not even start
>talking about how people are different from culture to
>culture. . .it just makes no sense to me that god is going
>to talk to me the same way that he'd hit mr. tanaka off in
>tokyo. my point is this: for me god is a connection
>between all things i come in contact with, a way to honor my
>life, and ur life, and the life of anyone, anything i come
>across. . .nothing has to "make sense" cause they just are.
>. .cause honestly (and please please don't take this as a
>personal attack) if i were to try and "make sense" of you
>through the post that you have put up. . .i'd be lost, have
>no clue, cause your way of living makes no sense to me. .
>.at different points in my life i've found it painful,
>repressive, very biggoted and felt as though it excluded me
>(hmmm so you see how thanksgiving dinner at my fam's house
>went down't dont u).

being raised a Christian are your familiar with Matt.13, when the people asked Christ why he spoke in parables? if you can read the whole chapter it may give you some idea. Version/translation we can discuss another time, we need to get and understanding first.

>
>>Please do because most of what people believe to be
>>contraditions are not, you just have to put things together
>>like a puzzle. Here a little there a little.
>
>but what amazes me is that often when i encounter people who
>won't look at the contridictions i often wonder how they
>truly can believe that they are capable of seeing the whole
>puzzle, cause they only playing wit some of the pieces. i
>actually agree with you, the bible when taken as a whole,
>when you see what sort of "energy" (end product) it creates,
>understand its purpose, has no contridictions. but you have
>to admit that from page to page, you really ain't sure what
>u gonna get. . .cause it is very situational changing with
>time, and space, and actors. . .like well. . .real life. . .

you really need knowledge, wisdom and understanding to follow the bible. read it like stories, then from page to page you'll know what your reading then get some understanding of what your reading then comes the wisdom. It's in steps!

>>>from being robbed/raped/maimed/murdered/etc.
>>>
>>>God's way of life dont create these kinds of
>>>>people.
>
>you can't have it both ways. . .either god created the
>universe, the actors and the props or he didn't.
>
>>What first needs to be understood, is that God did not
>>create evil, we created evil.
>
>back to my above point: you can't have it both ways. . .i'm
>not sure how the avg christian got appointed god's council
>and where their got their charge to defend him so with such
>blind zeal (ok i admit thats prob a bit patronizing. . .i'm
>getting increasingly more frustrated). man, was created in
>god's image and i believe quite strongly we were created
>with all of the struggles that god goes through, the
>struggle with ego, the need to be powerful, the desire of
>flesh, the desire of . . .so in a world where we are so
>afraid to deal with ourselves (mini gods. . .remember made
>in his image) it makes sense that we would split god in half
>good (jesus/christ/whomever) and evil (poor ole satan) and
>BOOM go off and live our lives in similiar sketzophrenic
>ways.

God dont go thru struggles, people do! Christ is the perfect example of God, who was subjected to the same "struggles with ego, the need to be powerful and so on", and he was sinless! Our minds cant grasp who God is or his position/role.

> God gave us law and the
>>consequences for breaking those laws.
>
>agreed. . .we must take responsibility for our actions. .
>.and i personally believe that we are here to do exactly
>that. . .its a process one that will continue long after
>this conversation, throughout time. god hasn't abandonded
>us, hasn't turned a blind eye to us, is here when we want
>"them" we just need to stop being theological,
>philosophical, cultureal bigots and get on wit it. damn!
>
>leon

only way to get on wit it, is to follow after God rightousness and not our own. What is wrong with easy? Doesnt his way of life create peace?


>ps sorry if some of this wasn't all that inteligent. . .but
>u know religion. . .gotta love it. . .

it's all good!