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Subject: "RE: I'll help you out BarTek" This topic is locked.
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BarTek
Member since Nov 10th 2002
51250 posts
Tue May-10-05 06:43 PM

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40. "RE: I'll help you out BarTek"
In response to In response to 35
Tue May-10-05 06:46 PM by BarTek

  

          

>Black folks are in a particular position, whether we are
>right or wrong we are coming from a place you are not coming
>from. I.E. Black communities were being terrorized in the 70's
>(well since we been here) so a group of Black decided to arms
>themselves and fight Back. You can have your opinion but what
>does it mean to someone on the front line, nothing! If you
>want to help from your position, you look at what causes Black
>folks to arm themselves, we'll assume we agree it is white
>supremacy, from your position you attack white supremacy the
>best way you can.

I see what you are saying and I agree with you. I do think I am on the front line, but, the pole is different; I am a white male fighting against white supremacy/racism, and also fighting against black supremacy/racism. What I mean is, I am also fighting against those which believe that the white man is evil. I am trying to open a dialouge with those people, so that I can demonstrate with myself, and many others like me, that white people can be very useful in a positive way. I think my efforts, and those who share my opinions are important. We are trying to forge a peaceful bridge between ourselves and the hardest black revolutionary, so that when the movement does appear, and I believe it will. It will involve, not only black, but white people too, and not only black & white, but many others. I'll be honest with you, I think the cultural mixing that has been occuring, is preparing everyone for a movement that incorporates us all, against the evils of power corruption, greed, inequality, injustice, and racism.


From your position, do not tell Black people
>what is appropriate behavior as you have done several times in
>your "Black revolutionary post". That's where you go wrong.

Okay, I understand you. Let me clarify that. Whatever I have said about behaviour associated with revolution, stems from movements and thought exploration developed and explored by any people who are, and have been involved with revolution, no matter what the color, or the race. I am not trying to tell "Black" people what to do in a revolution. What I am trying to do is, offer any insight I can to a revolutionary group of "people". The race is irrelevant here. I am chasing the methodology, and the means, to a peaceful end. Also, I have been very careful about those posts, and I never said, "You have to do this, or that, and that's my word.", I have said, "I don't see that working, because of factors X. It may be possible to achieve the same goal, by taking factors Y into account.", and once again, I base those observations on my understanding of revolutionary movements. I am only trying to challenge you, because I believe in it. I have to play devil's advocate (how ironic), so that when the movement does emerge, it will work, and no life will be lost. Maybe those are foolish and idealistic dreams, but I do believe it is possible.

If
>someone rapes your wife, can i tell you how you should go
>about it? I might have some insight, but that is your wife and
>your situation. Know when to sit back and know where your
>input is not wanted. Wait until you are asked.

I would never be asked, we both know that. I never intend to pry, I truly don't. For some reason, my mind stays focused on the black movement, and I can explain why. I believe that black people's innovation, and exploration of music, poetry, dance, etc. will be the vehicle for a global change. I myself write and record conscious Hip Hop. English is my second language, but I have been inspired, by black people, to fight against injustice, using black innovation and music. Perhaps, my mind stays focused, and searching for solutions, because I am so in love with black culture. I know I am white, but I am flexible with myself, I will adopt anything, from any culture to enhance me, and it just so happens that black culture is ample with many qualities which I have found to be natural and positive.

Or show how
>your goals are the same and you can work together in a
>cooperative capacity, not stepping on the toes of the people
>you are trying to work with. I'm not going to argue this, it
>is what it is.

Agreed. Well, as I mentioned. Perhaps, there needs to be some type of guideline for how white people can help beyond "we'll call you when we need it", because I honestly think you need all the help that is being offered, and that is not to say that you are in any way less capable, however, I am able to be white, and I am able to look at things through a white, or even a white supremacist racist type of way. I know how those minds work, I've met plenty, and whatever I learn or observe, I gauge against several perspectives to find a thread amongst them all to focus on and follow. I am able to view the world differently to you, and you can view it differently to me, but, I do think that if we share the information, we can find a solution. I can write a post at what I really think the white supremacist think of black people, and it's pretty disturbing stuff, much of which I am sure you are aware of. I am trying to fight those things. I am also trying to offer insight, and only that, just insight. Sometimes an outsiders perspective can be very useful, as I am not black, and thus I do not feel the pain that you must feel. I don't think rational choices are made when they are mixed with highly emotional movements. Peace is the objective, without fighting. I don't know if you think that is possible or not, I do.

Thank you for responding. I hope I didn't offend you, because I'd love to read your response to what I wrote. If I am once again mistaken in your eyes, show me where and I will retrace my thought patterns if need be. Peace


~
he stood there,
eyes locked on her,
stare irreversible.
her hands over mouth,
she laughs. he smells
her soul,
tames his thoughts,
and hides the want.
- the perfect mistake

  

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Racist discourse and paternalism. [View all] , chillsm00th, Sat May-14-05 06:51 AM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
True
Apr 21st 2005
1
It's about credibility
Apr 21st 2005
2
RE: It's about credibility
Apr 21st 2005
3
      Because white people assume their opinions to be authoritative
Apr 21st 2005
4
           RE: Because white people assume their opinions to be authoritative
Apr 21st 2005
5
                Oh-PLEASE...there are still Grown Adults that think this way..?
Apr 21st 2005
6
RE: True
Apr 21st 2005
7
RE: Racist discourse and paternalism.
Apr 21st 2005
8
I think we suffer from a paralysis of analysis
May 10th 2005
31
RE: Racist discourse and paternalism.
Apr 25th 2005
9
Cosign 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Apr 25th 2005
10
RE: Racist discourse and paternalism.
May 09th 2005
11
RE: This post is an oxymoron,
May 09th 2005
12
      RE: Typical ignoramous liberal!
May 09th 2005
16
           RE: Typical ignoramous liberal!
May 09th 2005
17
                RE: Typical ignoramous liberal!
May 09th 2005
18
                     Delete, wrong post
May 09th 2005
21
                          RE: Delete, wrong post
May 09th 2005
22
                RE: Typical ignoramous liberal!
May 15th 2005
108
                     RE: Typical ignoramous liberal!
May 15th 2005
110
What Donald Mercado wrote
May 09th 2005
13
But surely this is a tick of the university system...
May 11th 2005
54
      It goes deeper than that
May 12th 2005
80
           RE: It goes deeper than that
May 12th 2005
81
                RE: It goes deeper than that
May 12th 2005
82
RE: Racist discourse and paternalism.
May 09th 2005
14
RE: ahh..peace
May 09th 2005
25
Wait, are black people capable of being self normative?
May 09th 2005
26
RE: and that's what i was saying...but because im white..hatorade...
May 09th 2005
27
Considering the topic, you shoulda expected your argument to be moot
May 09th 2005
28
      RE: Considering the topic, you shoulda expected your argument to be moot
May 09th 2005
29
           I'll help you out BarTek
May 10th 2005
35
          
                RE: I'll help you out BarTek
May 10th 2005
43
                RE: That right there is...
May 10th 2005
45
                     RE: That right there is...
May 10th 2005
48
                That's the problem, you're not on the frontline!
May 10th 2005
50
                     RE: That's the problem, you're not on the frontline!
May 11th 2005
53
                          RE: That's the problem, you're not on the frontline!
May 11th 2005
56
           I dunno the original poster's motivation
May 10th 2005
37
but isn't being 'Black' the meat of discussion
May 10th 2005
30
RE: but isn't being 'Black' the meat of discussion
May 10th 2005
34
      then why not just take 'Black' out the equation?
May 10th 2005
38
           RE: then why not just take 'Black' out the equation?
May 10th 2005
49
                RE: then why not just take 'Black' out the equation?
May 11th 2005
61
                     RE: then why not just take 'Black' out the equation?
May 11th 2005
68
                          RE: then why not just take 'Black' out the equation?
May 11th 2005
71
                               RE: then why not just take 'Black' out the equation?
May 11th 2005
77
I think you are twisting the argument...
May 10th 2005
32
      thanks for summing that up.
May 10th 2005
33
      The original post would be better off supporting your post
May 10th 2005
36
      *claps*
May 10th 2005
39
      RE: not so fast....
May 10th 2005
42
      RE: Hmmmmmm....
May 10th 2005
41
           This is why this post was made
May 10th 2005
44
           RE: wrong again!
May 10th 2005
46
                RE: wrong again!
May 10th 2005
47
                     Oh c'mon now-be nice.
May 10th 2005
51
                     RE: wrong again!
May 10th 2005
52
                          Seek counseling
May 11th 2005
55
                               This is so true:
May 11th 2005
57
                               So on this reasoning if I give an educated opinion on
May 11th 2005
59
                               If its your opinion...probably so
May 11th 2005
63
                                    You're restricting the meaning of 'opinion' to 'two cents worth'
May 11th 2005
65
                                         your academic theory is based on what?
May 11th 2005
69
                                              This is a weak analogy...
May 11th 2005
70
                                                   I think i'd be able to differentiate to some extent
May 11th 2005
72
                                                   Point noted
May 11th 2005
74
                                                        RE: Point noted
May 11th 2005
76
                                                             Then last question...
May 12th 2005
79
                                                                  Hey man!!
May 13th 2005
89
                                                                  Lol...
May 13th 2005
91
                                                                  RE: Then last question...
May 13th 2005
90
                                                                       Another example in post 92
May 13th 2005
93
                                                                       Whoops!
May 13th 2005
94
                                                                            RE: Whoops!
May 13th 2005
95
                                                                            RE: Whoops!
May 13th 2005
96
                                                                            Then I'll address it...
May 14th 2005
97
                                                                            RE: Then I'll address it...
May 14th 2005
98
                                                                            Wrong IF
May 14th 2005
100
                                                                            RE: Wrong IF
May 14th 2005
101
                                                                            RE: Wrong IF
May 14th 2005
102
                                                                            Huh?!?
May 14th 2005
104
                                                                            RE: Huh?!?
May 15th 2005
107
                                                                            RE: Huh?!?
May 15th 2005
109
                                                                            RE: Huh?!?
May 17th 2005
114
                                                                            This response if very disappointing
May 17th 2005
115
                                                                            Jumping in...
May 17th 2005
116
                                                                            Thank You
May 17th 2005
118
                                                   RE: This is a weak analogy...
May 11th 2005
73
                                                        You either like the to and fro'
May 11th 2005
75
                               RE: You're not worth my time,
May 11th 2005
64
           ?
May 11th 2005
58
           Thats nice and all
May 11th 2005
62
                RE: Thats nice and all
May 11th 2005
66
                     thats a lot of scrolling
May 11th 2005
67
                          RE: what i think of that conversation...
May 12th 2005
78
.
May 11th 2005
60
RE: Archive!
May 12th 2005
83
RE: Racist discourse and paternalism.
May 13th 2005
84
He was as racist as they come.
May 13th 2005
85
      RE: He was as racist as they come.
May 13th 2005
86
      Yes
May 13th 2005
88
           RE: Yes
May 16th 2005
111
      RE: He was as racist as they come.
May 13th 2005
87
           Racism is easy to prove
May 13th 2005
92
                well stated...
May 14th 2005
106
                RE: Racism is easy to prove
May 16th 2005
112
                     It's clear you dont know what racism is
May 16th 2005
113
That is presumptious...
May 14th 2005
105
From #116
May 17th 2005
117
let's hear more from the prophet on this, tell me oh ye of wisdom...
Jun 07th 2005
119
Question
Jun 07th 2005
120
      RE: Question
Jun 07th 2005
121
and what the hell is the black condition?
Jun 07th 2005
122

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