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Lobby Okay Activist Archives topic #3040

Subject: "RE: first of all" This topic is locked.
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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Wed Nov-12-03 09:05 PM

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47. "RE: first of all"
In response to In response to 44


  

          

WOW, that was a huge response, I will try and get to it all but no promises.

Of course this is my view, isnt that what we are supposed to write here? Not to be defensive, I just wanna answer your question and state emphatically that I never claimed to be dictating anything to anyone nor do I feel that ALL members of any race or social category are to be expected to act in one way. By the way I think monolithically is a word, I heard a dude use it in a play earlier this evening (very weird coincidence). I couldnt agree more, if you wanna repatriate go ahead, if you wanna stick around you agree with my hypothetical opinion (I am not black myself). Debate is great but I think imposition of either view is not; and I think you concur there from the sound of things.

I agree completely about flying below the radar; "the revolution will not be televised" wasnt just a Nike slogan, it used to mean something and that is just it!

I think they are suspect because of some of the motives and that often people dont have enough info about Africa. I am however in the process of checking out some very informed afro centric scholars and changing my views a bit; actually as a result of this post. Dialogue does produce things, so while I agree that individuals can excercise choice, I have to disagree that this should not even be a debate on a larger scale.

I am totally in favor of multi cultural identity, even for people who are necessarily born into a culture. I was making the statement about mixed Afro-Americans there because in the Bell story there is some biological component that makes the island totally inhospitable for whites, I mean like they die on contact and fine for blacks. That seemed fishy to me, but hey, willful suspension of disbelief is always an option and it was sort of beside the story's moral anyway.

As for the utopia, it wasnt actually Africa or even a continent. It was an island and the whole thing sunk, thats why they had to go back to America. The rest of the details are fuzzy, this was a while ago. The book is entitled Faces at the Bottom of the Well, you have probably even read it at some point, its very popular in black studies and soc sci programs.

Obviously I dont feel that the class survey was comprehensive, I am just stating that for the most part people shared the view of African Americans as being Americans. No doubt there is some kinship across diasporas; it is very evident in Semitic, Asian and other cultures and I am certain it has potential within black cultures. I would point out the key difference is that often those other groups have contact with family members in those nations or recent immigrants from them whereas the atrocious history of slavery mangles that for blacks, but that's merely a difference and possible dilution, nowhere near a total negation.

I think the fact that African nations, which I am aware of, in general sort of convolutes identification with Africa; though knowledge of various cultures there could be highly enlightening. Perhaps knowing one's ancestral background as to what region one came from could help in this matter, which I doubt is impossible.

Points about being "mixed" are well taken, I am not looking at my original post and there is no quote there so I am not sure if that is in response to my original post. Certainly it is irrefutable that much of the world is comprised of mixed people although some scholars would argue blacks are a particularly hybrid race. Personally, I cannot comment, would need a lot more data to draw such a conclusion.

I also hear what you are saying on defining a group in cultural terms; colorist hierarchies and eugenics BS would be enormous detriments to a movement.

As for why she wanted to leave, um, I think I am going to leave that one alone, if personal opinions arent that important here I will shelve both hers and mine, it's really not a big deal here.

I hear what you are saying about Douglass's comments in historical context, obviously I am aware of the potential contradiction since it is plain when his statement is juxtaposed with Lincoln/white action. If you read the oration though; it's pretty clear in his rhetoric that he means permanently although one could argue that he was posturing because of context. Personally, I will take his word at face value because he is one of the few historical figures who I feel has earned that right to be read thusly.

I was throwing in Griffin for a little comic relief, but I do agree that his view of Africa is unenlightened, obviously it is based upon western depictions of africa in film which I have bemoaned elsewhere. That was probably misplaced, but it does show how a lot of people feel. After I visit Africa, I may feel differently, but for now it just seems to me like the average person couldnt just pick up, move there and adjust seamlessly.

Birth-given heritage is an assumption a lot of people are not willing to make but there are definitely no simple answers and I am not under the ridiculous presumption that things are wonderful for black folks in America, no one is.

Knowing one's OWN culture solely is limiting because it narrows one's view; if this were an Israel-Palestine post we'd have a clear cut example. I am all for cultural education but I think it's important to get a breadth of knowledge about as many cultures as possible. If you seek to focus on your own, that is understandable, but avoid that being the sole focus. That is why I brought up the Huey example. Certainly he was seeking advancement and education for his own people and means of achieving them in other cultures. Still, he is just an individual, others might have different motives and arrive at different conclusions from the type of studies he undertook. While not everyone is as brilliant/inquisitive as Huey, we can all try; he did it all with dyslexia (sp) I believe which makes it even more incredible.

Anyway, yeah, certainly that post was my opinion as were most aspects of yours; I thought that is what we were supposed to offer. Your points about subjectivity are shared and many others well taken, which is not to act as if my judgement of your opinion is in some way validating because I am sure its not that important at all. I hope I responded to everything; it was a task at 2 in the morning here...

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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"Blacks are getting whiter every day..." [View all] , ConcreteCharlie, Mon Nov-10-03 08:33 AM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: "Blacks are getting whiter every day..."
Nov 10th 2003
1
RE: "Blacks are getting whiter every day..."
Nov 10th 2003
2
RE: Human Nature is subjective
Nov 10th 2003
3
      is it??
Nov 10th 2003
6
           RE: Yeah
Nov 10th 2003
14
good point
Nov 10th 2003
17
RE: i hate that
Nov 10th 2003
18
Music is entertainment Eli
Nov 10th 2003
24
      RE: fresh
Nov 10th 2003
25
      RE:No cultural middle point
Nov 10th 2003
28
      i agree totally with this statement..
Nov 11th 2003
31
           RE: i think these are both valid points
Nov 11th 2003
33
                RE: i think these are both valid points
Nov 11th 2003
36
                     RE: i am definitely interested
Nov 11th 2003
39
                          first of all
Nov 12th 2003
44
                              
                                    RE: Quick note on Douglass
Nov 12th 2003
49
                                    RE: Quick note on Douglass
Nov 13th 2003
51
                                    :+)
Nov 13th 2003
50
RE: More westernized
Nov 10th 2003
4
RE: More westernized
Nov 10th 2003
5
      RE: More westernized
Nov 10th 2003
7
           RE: Value of black history
Nov 10th 2003
8
           RE: So true...
Nov 10th 2003
9
           RE: So true...
Nov 10th 2003
19
           RE: Value of black history
Nov 10th 2003
10
                RE: Sankofa
Nov 10th 2003
11
                     RE: Nice dialogue y'all
Nov 10th 2003
30
           Harold Cruse
Nov 10th 2003
12
                RE: Harold Cruse
Nov 10th 2003
13
RE:
Nov 10th 2003
15
It means we're slowly co-opting what was once considere
Nov 10th 2003
16
gold star... n/m
Nov 11th 2003
42
the doors of access are starting to loosen...
Nov 12th 2003
45
      RE: seemingly, but...
Nov 12th 2003
46
RE: I'll throw this out there too
Nov 10th 2003
20
RE: I'll throw this out there too
Nov 10th 2003
26
      RE: true
Nov 10th 2003
27
Assimilation....
Nov 10th 2003
21
RE: Assimilation....
Nov 10th 2003
22
      The trend..
Nov 10th 2003
23
so how would you 'stay black'?
Nov 10th 2003
29
um
Nov 11th 2003
32
RE: well...
Nov 11th 2003
34
ok
Nov 11th 2003
35
      RE: Look at religion
Nov 11th 2003
38
           excellent question dodging
Nov 11th 2003
43
                RE: Thanks Bobby
Nov 12th 2003
48
RE: I can ask
Nov 11th 2003
37
...
Nov 11th 2003
40
RE: ...
Nov 11th 2003
41

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