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Lobby Okay Activist Archives topic #2959

Subject: "RE: You seem to have missed the point..." This topic is locked.
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Thu Nov-13-03 12:17 PM

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38. "RE: You seem to have missed the point..."
In response to In response to 36


          

>The reason Moore doesn't make these tight connections that
>you seem to desire is because it's not possible, and the
>film admits that. The issue is more complex than simply
>blaming it on Cause A or Cause B. The whole purpose of the
>film is to ask questions, not answer them. I think Moore
>does a great job of posing possible answers, but leaves the
>viewer to make up their own mind.

First of all it is possible to provide some coherence to the events and to relate the geopolitical implications of US policy upon the mindstate of fearful individuals. All the film admits is that it is *incapable* of providing that coherence to the argument. What, just because the film told you so you thought it was true? Secondly, nobody thus far (myself included) has referenced the idea that the issues dealt with are understandable in absolute immutable terms. The A/B analogy is a bit ridiculous seeing as how I have been arguing for a greater complexity and depth to Moores thesis this entire time. The kind of depth that addresses a complex interrelation of trends (foreign/domestic, economic/social, and geographic) leading to the current situation in America. Moore doesnt attempt this, or even attempt a simple crystallization for the viewers to digest, he just throws his flabby arms up into the air and concedes defeat. He is a coward for that reason - for not even attempting a complex understanding in the first place.

>Also, your critiques on the film making are just poorly
>constructed. I watched the film again today, and noticed not
>only good voiceovers, but perfectly timed editing. On top of

My critiques are apt. Each and every one of them. You enjoy the nasal monotone delivery of Moore's voiceovers? The man's voice isn't fit for a cable access show, and his choice of reading the voiceovers was clearly a vanity play. Still awful no matter how you flip it. And perfectly timed editing? Is that the litmus test for a good documentary film? Perfectly timed editing is the LEAST I expect from any production. Its how it was edited, spliced with cheery 50's vomitus and Moore wheezing nasally, and how the piece presented its ideas through the editing. All of it was trash.

If there is any reason for the film getting acclaim it is simply because people are SETTLING for Moore because of a nicely timed historical co-incidence. Nobody in their right mind would consider this film worthy above its historically contingent political context.

>Finally, in regards to the portrayal of Canada, please
>explain to me what was such a farce. I didn't think it was
>that far off. I'm interested to hear this.

Do you live in Canada? The portrayal of Canada was a farce for a number of reasons. Firstly because of the locations that Moore choose. Sarnia - a city in the boonies with a low crime rate, which seems to suit Moores thesis about Canada well even if it is completely fallacious. Then Windsor, also a low-key urban metropolis in Canada. Its handy for him to use Windsor as an example because its right across from Detroit so it gives the impression that the mean differences are not geographically but culturally defined. They're not, especially to the extent that Moore says they are. Lastly, and most importantly, he goes to Toronto because Toronto is a big Canadian city with the highest crime rate. BUT - and this is crucial to how Moore manipulates his version of the truth to suit his hypothesis on Canada - he goes to a bougie neighborhood to knock on peoples doors, probably the Annex, or the Esplanade, which doesnt speak for the majority of Torontonians in terms of the locking door issue. Secondly, he interviews people in middle-upper class neighborhoods with little racial diversity, in order to suit his thesis. He visited a 'ghetto' - didn't cite the name, it looks like some place on Finch in the north end of the city, but he DIDNT go knocking on doors there or interview people there.

Apart from the upper class neighborhoods people in Toronto generally do lock their doors, do take steps to protect their own safety, and also do commit violent acts against one another (a highschool gangwar just killed 1 17yearold teenager here after he was stabbed in the gut admist a throng of people carrying bats and chains and other weapons). It happened, funnily enough, near the 'ghetto' which Moore placidly strolls through at 2pm in the afternoon.

Moore's presentation of Canada is propagandistic and false.

  

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A BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE POST YOU HAVNT READ [View all] , signified, Thu Nov-06-03 03:07 PM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
that's ONE opinion.
Nov 06th 2003
1
RE: A BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE POST YOU HAVNT READ
Nov 06th 2003
2
Than why did it win?
Nov 07th 2003
7
      RE: Than why did it win?
Nov 12th 2003
27
      RE: hahahaha
Nov 12th 2003
34
      Thats a simpletons response.
Nov 13th 2003
39
      RE: actually
Nov 12th 2003
35
RE: A BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE POST YOU HAVNT READ
Nov 06th 2003
3
rrrrrrrrrip
Nov 06th 2003
4
RE: A BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE POST YOU HAVNT READ
Nov 07th 2003
8
this is great advertisment for the movie...
Nov 06th 2003
5
I'll give you an example
Nov 07th 2003
12
i have shy-ed away from seeing it
Nov 06th 2003
6
Criticizing a documentary for bad voiceovers is suspect
Nov 07th 2003
9
RE: Criticizing a documentary for bad voiceovers is sus
Nov 07th 2003
10
Uhhh
Nov 07th 2003
13
DTS....
Nov 07th 2003
11
hating
Nov 07th 2003
14
INCREASE THE HATE
Nov 07th 2003
15
      RE: INCREASE THE HATE
Nov 07th 2003
16
      oh I see
Nov 07th 2003
17
           RE: oh I see
Nov 07th 2003
18
      RE: INCREASE THE HATE
Nov 11th 2003
23
      RE: INCREASE THE HATE
Nov 11th 2003
24
           RE: INCREASE THE HATE
Nov 12th 2003
28
                Hate increase
Nov 12th 2003
29
                     RE: Hate increase
Nov 12th 2003
30
                          RE: Hate increase
Nov 12th 2003
31
                               RE: Hate increase
Nov 12th 2003
32
                                    RE: Hate increase
Nov 12th 2003
33
      RE: INCREASE THE HATE
Nov 12th 2003
25
      Fraud
Nov 14th 2003
48
           RE: Fraud
Nov 14th 2003
53
I thought it was a great ...
Nov 07th 2003
19
RE: I thought it was a great ...
Nov 07th 2003
20
      RE: I thought it was a great ...
Nov 07th 2003
21
      Ok, reiteration a bit and then some other stuff
Nov 07th 2003
22
      RE: well, I feel you on a bigger point
Nov 13th 2003
44
RE: A BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE POST YOU HAVNT READ
Nov 12th 2003
26
You seem to have missed the point...
Nov 12th 2003
36
      RE: You seem to have missed the point...
Nov 13th 2003
40
      Not quite accurate...
Nov 13th 2003
45
           RE: Not quite accurate...
Nov 13th 2003
46
                RE: Not quite accurate...
Nov 13th 2003
47
RE: A BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE POST YOU HAVNT READ
Nov 13th 2003
37
I'm not saying that the Academy Awards were always shit
Nov 13th 2003
41
      RE: I'm not saying that the Academy Awards were always
Nov 13th 2003
42
           No I havn't, but I'll take a look.
Nov 13th 2003
43
regardless of it's good or bad qualities
Nov 14th 2003
49
Boo--- shit
Nov 14th 2003
52
RE: A BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE POST YOU HAVNT READ
Nov 14th 2003
50
I'm not going to front
Nov 14th 2003
51

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