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Lobby Okay Activist Archives topic #25338

Subject: "You know what's funny?" This topic is locked.
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Seenic
Member since Sep 19th 2002
933 posts
Wed Mar-19-03 02:05 PM

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28. "You know what's funny?"
In response to In response to 0


          

An article like this gets posted, and the thread comes to life. Everybody starts cheerleading and taking it as the whole truth and nothing but the truth, eventhough it was almost entirely based upon speculation, and was written by, or hosted by some Berkeley liberal who obviously shares your agenda...

But I post an article written by somebody who's against the war, meaning, somebody who doesn't have the same agenda that I do, and he killed the oil conspiracy with cold hard logic because he knows how ridiculous it is. Like 3 people respond, then the thread gets locked.

I'm not suprized though, the truth means little here.

In case you missed it, the post that got locked for no reason at all, here it is...

==============

Blood for Oil?

by Jerry Taylor

Jerry Taylor is director of natural resource studies at the Cato Institute (outspoken critics of the war).

Is the coming war with Iraq about oil when all is said and done? The anti-war movement seems to think so. I am not so sure.

Unless the peace movement has discovered telepathy, I doubt that it's in any better position to divine the hidden thoughts or secret motivations of George Bush and Tony Blair than I am. Arguing about unstated motives, therefore, is a waste of time -- claims cannot be proven or disproven.

Is it so difficult, however, to imagine that both Bush and Blair sincerely believe -- rightly or wrongly -- that a well-armed Iraq poses an intolerable danger to the civilized world? If access to oil were of concern to them, one might have expected members of their administrations to hint as much. The Thatcher and Bush administrations, after all, were quite open about the role that oil played in justifying the first go-around in Kuwait. Polls in the United States revealed at the time, moreover, that the public responded favorably to the argument. Why the supposed reticence now?

Regardless, it's difficult to know exactly what is being alleged when one is confronted by the slogan "No Blood for Oil!"

If the argument is that war is primarily being executed to ensure global access to Iraqi oil reserves, then it flounders upon misunderstanding. The only thing preventing Iraqi oil from entering the world market in force is the partial U.N. embargo on Iraqi exports. Surely if access to Iraqi oil were the issue, it would have occurred to Bush and Blair that removing the embargo is about $100 billion cheaper (and less risky politically) than going to war.

If the argument is that war is being undertaken to rape Iraqi reserves, flood the market with oil, bust the OPEC cartel, and provide cheap energy to western consumers, then war would be a dagger pointed at the heart of the "Big Oil." That's because low prices = low profits. Moreover, it would wipe out "Little Oil" -- the small-time producers in Texas, Oklahoma, and the American Southwest that President Bush has long considered his best political friends. Accordingly, it's impossible to square this story with the allegation that President Bush is a puppet of the oil industry.

In fact, if oil company "fat cats" were calling the shots -- as is often alleged by the protesters -- President Bush would almost certainly not go to war. He would instead embrace the Franco-German-Russian plan of muscular but indefinite inspections because keeping the world on the precipice of uncertainty regarding conflict is the best guarantee that oil prices (and thus, oil profits) will remain at current levels.

If the argument is that "Big Oil" is less interested in high prices than it is with outright ownership of the Iraqi reserves, then how to account for Secretary of State Colin Powell's repeated promise that the oil reserves will be transferred to the Iraqi government after a new leadership is established? Do the protestors think that this high-profile public commitment is a bald-faced lie? Moreover, if that's the real goal of this war, then I'm forced to wonder why the U.S. didn't seize the Kuwaiti fields more than 10 years ago.

If the argument is that this war is aimed at installing a pro-American regime more inclined to grant oil contracts to American and British rather than French and Russian oil firms, then it invites a similar charge that France and Russia are against war primarily to protect their cozy economic relationships with the existing Iraqi regime. Regardless, only one or two American or British firms in this scenario would "win" economically while the rest would lose because increased production would lower global oil prices and thus profits. Because no one knows who would win the post-war contract "lottery," it makes little sense for the oil industry (or the politicians who supposedly cater to them) to support war.

Moreover, the profit opportunities afforded by Iraqi development contracts are overstated. The post-war Iraqi regime would certainly ensure that most of the profits from development were captured by the new government, whose reconstruction needs will prove monumental. In fact, Secretary Powell has repeatedly hinted that Iraqi oil revenues would be used for exactly that purpose. Big money in the oil industry goes to those who own their reserves or who secure favorable development contracts, not to those who are forced to surrender most of the rents through negotiation.

If the argument is that the United States is going to war to tame OPEC (accomplished, presumably, by ensuring that a puppet regime holds the second largest reserves within the cartel), then it runs up against the fact that the United States has never had much complaint with OPEC. Occasional posturing notwithstanding, both have the same goal: stable prices between $20-$28 a barrel. The cartel wants to keep prices in that range because it maximizes their profits. The United States wants to keep prices in that range because it ensures the continued existence of the oil industry in the United States (which would completely disappear absent OPEC production constraints) without doing too much damage to the American economy. The United States doesn't need a client state within the cartel, particularly when the cost of procuring such a state will reach into the hundreds of billions of dollars.

Oil, however, is relevant to this extent: Whoever controls those reserves sits atop a large source of potential revenue which, in the hands of a rogue state, could bankroll a sizeable and dangerous military arsenal. That's why the United States and Great Britain care more about containing the ambitions of Saddam Hussein than, say, the ambitions of Robert Mugabe. Still, if seizing oil fields from anti-western regimes is the name of the game, why aren't U.S. troops massing on the Venezuelan border and menacing Castro "Mini-Me" Hugo Chavez?

In sum, the argument that the impending war with Iraq is fundamentally about oil doesn't add up. While everyone loves a nice, tidy political morality play, I doubt there is one to be found here."

This war is not about oil.

Find something else to mislead people with.

  

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the rabbit hole [View all] , Abbstrack, Sat Mar-15-03 04:58 PM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
Dollar versus the euro...
Mar 15th 2003
1
the most interesting thing
Mar 15th 2003
2
RE: the most interesting thing
Mar 15th 2003
3
      After what hapened to theBot in Thailand, I don't
Mar 15th 2003
4
      RE: After what hapened to theBot in Thailand, I don't
Mar 15th 2003
5
      Thai Baht
Mar 15th 2003
6
           Well, in my understanding- they tried to use the US dol
Mar 16th 2003
8
      RE: After what hapened to theBot in Thailand, I don't
Mar 15th 2003
7
           sure, here one place you can check my sources
Mar 16th 2003
9
           RE: After what hapened to theBot in Thailand, I don't
Mar 16th 2003
10
      RE: the most interesting thing
Mar 20th 2003
58
CHANGING TO THE EURO ISNT A BAD THING!!!!!!
Mar 22nd 2003
80
      straightening out
Mar 22nd 2003
81
excellent discussion
Mar 16th 2003
11
The problem with that is that NZ, and Aussies will be n
Mar 16th 2003
12
      you're right. we won't.
Mar 17th 2003
16
           u cant leave
Mar 17th 2003
17
                Let me get this straight...
Mar 17th 2003
19
                if its going to go down
Mar 17th 2003
20
                *sigh*
Mar 17th 2003
22
RE: the rabbit hole
Mar 16th 2003
13
More like a worm hole............and a very shallow one
Mar 16th 2003
14
RE: More like a worm hole............and a very shallow
Mar 17th 2003
15
RE: More like a worm hole............and a very shallow
Mar 17th 2003
21
?
Mar 17th 2003
18
      RE: ?
Mar 17th 2003
23
           RE: ?
Mar 17th 2003
24
up.
Mar 19th 2003
25
where is Expertise to defend Bush?
Mar 19th 2003
26
i too wondered
Mar 19th 2003
27
The difference here shouldn't be suprising.
Mar 19th 2003
29
pretty much
Mar 19th 2003
30
      RE: pretty much
Mar 19th 2003
31
           so how much did you have to search
Mar 19th 2003
32
           Your skillz of debate are piss poor. You would have
Mar 19th 2003
33
                I could care less..
Mar 19th 2003
34
                     who does 'you' refer to?
Mar 19th 2003
35
                     RE: who does 'you' refer to?
Mar 19th 2003
36
                          RE: who does 'you' refer to?
Mar 19th 2003
37
                          btw
Mar 19th 2003
38
                               RE: btw
Mar 19th 2003
41
                                    RE: btw
Mar 20th 2003
43
                                    RE: btw
Mar 20th 2003
46
                                         your reading skills are piss poor
Mar 20th 2003
47
                                              RE: your reading skills are piss poor
Mar 20th 2003
48
                                                   give it up man.
Mar 20th 2003
51
                                    Tearing apart poor argumentation.
Mar 20th 2003
45
                                         Hahaha
Mar 20th 2003
49
                                         Yea, that's pretty funny...
Mar 20th 2003
53
                                         RE: Tearing apart poor argumentation.
Mar 20th 2003
50
                                              oh now i see what this is about...
Mar 20th 2003
52
                                              You are dense.
Mar 20th 2003
54
                          RE: who does 'you' refer to?
Mar 20th 2003
56
                               RE: who does 'you' refer to?
Mar 20th 2003
57
                                    RE: who does 'you' refer to?
Mar 20th 2003
59
                                         RE: who does 'you' refer to?
Mar 20th 2003
63
                                              RE: who does 'you' refer to?
Mar 20th 2003
65
                                              hi seenic
Mar 21st 2003
67
                                                   blah blah
Mar 21st 2003
68
                                                        RE: blah blah
Mar 21st 2003
69
                                                        RE: blah blah
Mar 21st 2003
73
                                                        And nobody loves you
Mar 21st 2003
74
                                                             RE: And nobody loves you
Mar 21st 2003
76
                                                                  Worthless
Mar 22nd 2003
77
                                                                       RE: Worthless
Mar 22nd 2003
79
                     RE: I could care less..
Mar 19th 2003
39
                     RE: I could care less..
Mar 19th 2003
40
                          God you should work as a speechwriter for Bush
Mar 21st 2003
75
                     Seenic is not about real dialogue. This person has a
Mar 20th 2003
44
                     RE: I could care less..
Mar 20th 2003
55
                          RE: I could care less..
Mar 20th 2003
60
                               RE: I could care less..
Mar 20th 2003
64
                                    Notice how he has no response to this.
Mar 22nd 2003
78
                                         god you are on my nuts hard....
Mar 22nd 2003
82
Correction
Mar 25th 2003
88
RE: the rabbit hole
Mar 19th 2003
42
To MODERATOR ............
Mar 20th 2003
61
THE DANGER PART IS.....
Mar 20th 2003
62
Yeah...here is some background info. Nonpartisan
Mar 21st 2003
66
these are very good!!!!
Mar 22nd 2003
83
Here is a interesting paper that provides perspective (
Mar 21st 2003
70
More sites to check out for background info:
Mar 21st 2003
71
Comprehensive timeline! I had to repost this.
Mar 21st 2003
72
I prefer it in the theme-split timelines
Mar 24th 2003
85
sure, but its great to see how it ALL meshes together.
Mar 24th 2003
86
nevermind
Mar 24th 2003
87
      exactly
Mar 25th 2003
90
up....too much knowledge here.
Mar 24th 2003
84
hahah
Mar 25th 2003
89
here ya'll go...
Mar 09th 2005
91

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