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Subject: "RE: I've always read that they were more Mediterranean" This topic is locked.
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Sopdet
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Sun Jan-04-04 09:49 AM

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67. "RE: I've always read that they were more Mediterranean"
In response to In response to 54


  

          

Dna shows that Egyptians have a Yap ++ marker which is found in Egypt at rates of 50%. DNA smaples of Egyptians are only as good as where you take the sample from. For instance,if you take the sample from rual Egyptians you will find that many tend to have a sub-Saharan marker of 30-50% as opposed to the North where you will find more Arabic and European markers from past mesegenation.

Still,the Yap ++ marker shows up in Egyptians at a rate of 50% or more shows that the Egyptians inherited a large amounts of sub-Saharan admixture from pre-dyanstic times.

Here are some good references to what I say:

From Passarino et al.

Ethiopian (64) 50.0 6.2
Senegalese:
Mandenka (56) 98.2 1.8
Wolof (31) 100
Mixed African (44) 59.1 7.4
Bantu (442) 78.0 2.0
Khoisan:
Nama Sekele San 68) 46 6
Tsumkwe San (38) 11 5
Egyptian (64) 53.1 6.2
Saudi Arabian (21) 10.0 6.4
European (192) 7.0 1.8

<http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v62>
n2/970077/970077.html

The Yap + marker has two possible origins and are seperate from each other. One theory is that it originated in Mongolia;hwoever the Yap + originated in Africa,thus there are two different Yap + marker


http://www.larecherche.fr/arch/02/05>


For those who could not read the French in the attachment, here is a
translation of the caption to the photo of two human remains.

"These two adult men, buried together in the necropolis Adaima, in
Egypt, 3,700 years BCE, were brothers or cousins, according to the
analysis of their ADN. The test also connects them with populations
of sub-Saharan origin, which agrees with the morphological elements
concerning the population as a whole."


Here is a Y-Chromsome test on modern Egyptians:

-chromosome Haplotypes in Egypt

to appear in American Journal of Physical Anthropology
Brief communication: Y-chromosome haplotypes in Egypt
G. Lucotte *, G. Mercier
International Institute of Anthropology, Paris, France
ABSTRACT

We analyzed Y-chromosome haplotypes in the Nile River Valley in Egypt
in 274 unrelated males, using the p49a,f TaqI polymorphism. These
individuals were born in three regions along the river: in Alexandria
(the Delta and Lower Egypt), in Upper Egypt, and in Lower Nubia.
Fifteen different p49a,f TaqI haplotypes are present in Egypt, the
three most common being haplotype V (39.4%), haplotype XI (18.9%),
and haplotype IV (13.9%). Haplotype V is a characteristic Arab
haplotype, with a northern geographic distribution in Egypt in the
Nile River Valley. Haplotype IV, characteristic of sub-Saharan
populations, shows a southern geographic distribution in Egypt. Am J
Phys Anthropol 121:000-000, 2003. 2003 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
..
As for mtDNA (Krings et al., ), the present study on the Y-
chromosome haplotype shows that there are northern and southern Y-
haplotypes in Egypt. The main Y-haplotype V is a northern haplotype,
with a significantly different frequency in the north compared to the
south of the country: frequencies of haplotype V are 51.9% in the
Delta (location A), 24.2% in Upper Egypt (location B), and 17.4% in
Lower Nubia (location C). On the other hand, haplotype IV is a
typical southern haplotype, being almost absent in A (1.2%), and
preponderant in B (27.3%) and C (39.1%). Haplotype XI also shows a
preponderance in the south (in C, 30.4%; B, 28.8%) compared to the
north (11.7% in A) of the country. In mtDNA, sequences of the first
hypervariable HpaI site at position 3592 allowed Krings et al.
() to designate each mtDNA as being of northern or southern
affiliation, and proportions of northern and southern mtDNA differed
significantly between Egypt, Nubia, and the Southern Sudan.
It is interesting to relate this peculiar north/south
differentiation, a pattern of genetic variation deriving from the two
uniparentally inherited genetic systems (mtDNA and Y chromosome), to
specific historic events. Since the beginning of Egyptian history
(3200-3100 B.C.), the legendary king Menes united Upper and Lower
Egypt. Migration from north to south may coincide with the Pharaonic
colonization of Nubia, which occurred initially during the Middle
Kingdom (12th Dynasty, 1991-1785 B.C.), and more permanently during
the New Kingdom, from the reign of Thotmosis III (1490-1437 B.C.).
The main migration from south to north may coincide with the 25th
Dynasty (730-655 B.C.), when kings from Napata (in Nubia) conquered
Egypt.
..
Concerning less frequent Y-haplotypes in Egypt, haplotype VIII is
characteristic of Semitic populations, originating in the Near East
(Lucotte et al., ). For example (Lucotte et al., ), the
frequency of haplotype VIII is 26.2% among North African Jews (where
it represents the majority haplotype) and 77.5% among Jews from the
island of Djerba (Tunisia), reaching 85.1% among Oriental (from Iraq,
Iran, and Syria) Jews. Similarly, haplotype VII had a general
geographical distribution fairly identical to that of haplotype VIII
(which it often accompanies as a secondary haplotype); haplotype VII
distinguishes itself by increased preponderance north of the
Mediterranean and in Eastern Europe (Lucotte et al., ).
Haplotype XV is the most widespread Y-haplotype in Western Europe
(Lucotte and Hazout, ), where its frequency decreases from west
to east (Semino et al., ; Lucotte and Loirat, ).
Haplotypes VIII, VII, and XV are less common haplotypes in Egypt
(7.3%, 6.6%, and 5.5%, respectively), and tend to be located in the
north of the country, near the Mediterranean coast. Possibly
haplotypes VIII, VII, and XV represent, respectively, Near East,
Greek, and Roman influences.



Notice that VI are typical southern Egyptians markers. This is well known that Southern Egyptians have had little mixture with foreginers as opposed to people in Cairo or Alexzandria who tend to show a dominance of V which is an Arab halpotype.


We analyzed Y-chromosome haplotypes in the Nile River Valley in Egypt
in 274 unrelated males, using the p49a,f TaqI polymorphism. These
individuals were born in three regions along the river: in Alexandria
(the Delta and Lower Egypt), in Upper Egypt, and in Lower Nubia.
Fifteen different p49a,f TaqI haplotypes are present in Egypt, the
three most common being haplotype V (39.4%), haplotype XI (18.9%),
and haplotype IV (13.9%). Haplotype V is a characteristic Arab
haplotype, with a northern geographic distribution in Egypt in the
Nile River Valley. Haplotype IV, characteristic of sub-Saharan
populations, shows a southern geographic distribution in Egypt. Am J
Phys Anthropol 121:000-000, 2003. 2003 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
..

  

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ARE NORTH AFRICANS "BLACK"??? [View all] , southphillyman, Mon Dec-15-03 07:31 PM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
Gotta do the reading.
Dec 15th 2003
1
RE: Gotta do the reading.
Dec 16th 2003
14
LOL
Dec 16th 2003
18
RE: Gotta do the reading.
Dec 17th 2003
27
      thanks for sharing this
Dec 24th 2003
63
RE: ARE NORTH AFRICANS "BLACK"???
Dec 15th 2003
2
they arabs (mooslims).
Dec 16th 2003
3
We are not Arabs and being a Muslim means nothing
Dec 17th 2003
28
RE: We are not Arabs and being a Muslim means nothing
Dec 19th 2003
41
      RE: We are not Arabs and being a Muslim means nothing
Dec 19th 2003
42
RE: they arabs (mooslims).
Dec 17th 2003
32
      RE: they arabs (mooslims).
Dec 17th 2003
35
alot are mix of black and Arab...check the kinky hair
Dec 16th 2003
4
RE: alot are mix of black and Arab...check the kinky ha
Dec 17th 2003
26
      umm of course.....
Dec 17th 2003
34
      much like
Dec 22nd 2003
49
I always thought of them as "Black"
Dec 16th 2003
5
ethiopia is SUB saharan...BIG difference
Dec 16th 2003
8
      RE: ethiopia is SUB saharan...BIG difference
Dec 16th 2003
13
      RE: ethiopia is SUB saharan...BIG difference
Dec 17th 2003
29
Honestly...
Dec 16th 2003
6
RE: Honestly...
Dec 16th 2003
7
not skinny enough to be considered black?
Dec 16th 2003
9
RE: not skinny enough to be considered black?
Dec 17th 2003
20
RE: Honestly...
Dec 16th 2003
16
RE: Honestly...
Dec 16th 2003
19
RE: Honestly...
Dec 17th 2003
31
thousands of years and many influences/events separate
Dec 16th 2003
10
Right!
Dec 16th 2003
11
depends on ancestry
Dec 16th 2003
12
RIGHT !!!
Dec 17th 2003
21
In the simplest terms..........
Dec 16th 2003
15
RE: In the simplest terms..........
Dec 17th 2003
33
The black ones are.
Dec 16th 2003
17
good answer....for real.
Dec 20th 2003
45
such an American question
Dec 17th 2003
22
RE: such an American question
Dec 17th 2003
23
Wow
Dec 17th 2003
24
RE: ARE NORTH AFRICANS "BLACK"???
Dec 17th 2003
25
so true
Dec 17th 2003
30
RE: ARE NORTH AFRICANS "BLACK"???
Dec 17th 2003
36
RE: ARE NORTH AFRICANS "BLACK"???
Dec 17th 2003
38
very true
Dec 19th 2003
43
      one egyptian's opinion
Dec 22nd 2003
50
           Not quite there.
Dec 22nd 2003
51
                my point
Dec 23rd 2003
57
                     You have no point, imbecile.
Dec 23rd 2003
60
                     disagree with what?
Dec 24th 2003
64
Are Spaniards and Italians white?
Dec 17th 2003
37
RE: Are Spaniards and Italians white?
Dec 17th 2003
39
RE: Are Spaniards and Italians white?
Dec 25th 2003
66
.
Dec 17th 2003
40
some are, some are not.
Dec 19th 2003
44
RE: ARE NORTH AFRICANS "BLACK"???
Dec 21st 2003
46
how do you know if you have black blood or not?
Dec 21st 2003
47
RE: ARE NORTH AFRICANS
Dec 22nd 2003
48
are u nuts?
Dec 22nd 2003
52
      RE: are u nuts?
Dec 22nd 2003
53
           again, are you nuts?
Dec 23rd 2003
56
I've always read that they were more Mediterranean
Dec 22nd 2003
54
wouldn't they vary like anywhere else?
Dec 23rd 2003
55
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Dec 23rd 2003
58
haha
Dec 24th 2003
62
      lol
Jan 04th 2004
69
north africa is a zone of convergence
Dec 23rd 2003
59
RE: from what i know...
Dec 23rd 2003
61
yes
Dec 24th 2003
65
RE: ARE NORTH AFRICANS "BLACK"???
Jan 04th 2004
68

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