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Tue Jan-23-01 01:23 PM

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9. "RE: Elders, Youth, Saul Williams and Black Revolution"
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>went to talk about more
>global issues and things. Someone
>in the crowd asked if
>he (as an artist) felt
>an obligation to the Black
>Liberation movement.
Am I that far gone, I really didn't know of any developed "movement" I know there are a whole lotta disillusioned, disenfrancised and just straight up tiiii(r)ed assed black folk in this country and worldwide, but movements as far as I know them are null.

>He said he
>an obligation himself first. He
>said that he had argument
>about this wit' Amiri Baraka
>who said, you must be
>in an organization to be
>a Revolutionary, Saul said you
>must organize your damn self
>before organize other people.

That still doesnt negate Amiri's point of orginizing with other people. People make the difference, not individuals. There are a whole lotta tiiii(r)ed individuals around this land, but with out an orginization and people (not a bunch of individuals) behind this organization, NOTHING WILL HAPPEN. I agree also with Saul that you have to find any and everything you do within youself, but he cannot and did not negate Amiri's point. At this point in time where people are scared of orginizing and making a change, Saul's method works quite well, because as an individual, he spreads the light of consciousness through to other individuals and that light grows into a mighty flame internalized within a whole generation. When the time comes (whenever that may be, I personally wish it was now or sooner) then comes the true revolutionary tatics.

>then explained how we find
>a common humanity beyond race,
>gender, sexuality ect., he said
>that is our movement not
>a primarily black struggle but
>a more human struggle.

We most definately are HUMAN first, but in the words or a wise (Wo)Man?? "Noone is free when others are opressed" As long as blacks (and others) world wide are opressed, no one on this earth is truly free.

> He
>then criticized the 60-70's movement
>for being positive but very
>Homophobic and Sexist and centered
>upon the Black Man.

YESS YESS YESS. It had its faults in hindsight, but look at what there were given. There were initially in a very mysoginistic society that had demeaned, demoralized, and de humanized the black man in any and every way possible. There were man that Raping and pillaging the wives or black men, who publically whipped, beat, spat on and lynched 'em. THEY WERE NOT HUMAN. If you ever get the chance get a hold of "We wear the mask" by Paul Lawrence Dunbar. It very well details a lot of the internalized feelings of black men at the time. The point in all this was that in a partiarchial society, the black man historically had been shitted on like an outhouse. This internalized repression is passed down through generations and manifested itself in the outward rage these very same black men exhibited to a point where it became excessive and of detriment to the struggle overall. Its still a problem today and will continue to be because black men are forced to overly exerty their masculinity in daily life. THis is why the issue of homosexuality is so taboo and why many of those who are homosexual choose to express their sexuality in an overly dramatically fashion (the classic "ghetto fag"). Reflection on past instances and during the present to make sure that what you're doing is right is very much necessary, because if WE dont know the past we're doomed to repeat it.

>then talked about a workshop
>he had with Amiri who
>called a woman lost feeling
>like she had to deal
>with ther gender and sexuality
>as lesbian before she deals
>with her race. Amiri said,
>"in their eyes you'll always
>be black first." Saul said
>'"no Amiri you're lost as
>long you're concered with what
>you are in their eyes!"

I agree, but it is this sociological "looking glass self" that creates the duality that Palo frero (in pedogogy of the opressed) and DuBois speak of. They know not only themselves, now they percieve themselves, but also try to internalize the way that others percieve them. And in this country that means a lot of your black. True consciousness transcends the lookingglass self, but its only human to fall victim to it. (point goes to Williams)

>At this point an elder woman
>in the crowd jumped up
>and said your disrespeeting an
>elder and began a 10
>minute tirade on Saul that
>ended in the woman being
>removed from the auditorium, She
>called him disrespectful, demanded he
>contribute whatver he got paid
>to speak that night to
>the reparations movement. Saul handled
>it mad well, he was
>caught mad off guard, the
>crowd was stunned. Anyway i
>was talking to an elder
>who there wit' me afterwards
>and he felt he dead
>wrong for doing that, he
>said "The Elders can't antagonize
>the youth!"

This bitch is crazy...

>I say all of that to
>raise several questions...
>1)Are Black artists obligated to a
>Black movement or a Human
Pure art is purposeless, but I have more respect for art that speaks of, or reflects human reality and offers insight (makes me think). I'm not one to restrict the decisions of others, but I do think that all people should feel an obligation to something larger than themselves. "If someone hasn't found something to die for, they aren't fit to live"

>2)Should the Elders step out of
>leadership positions they've been holding
>since the 60-70's and let
>younger blood with new ideas
>take riegns.
I think that elders need to GET THA FUCK OFF THEIR ASSES, STOP HAVING AWARDS CEREMONIES, BANQUETS, LUNCHEONS, DINNERS, ALL DAT SHYT and talk to the youth. These coming generations mine included are LOST y'all. We need guidance. We need elders to school us so that we don't make a lot of stupid mistakes and don't waste time. Elders are the most important asset of any society, so lets utilize 'em, it takes an effort on both sides. I'm willing, but I wish that all this award bullshit should cease for a while until something really gets done, something really gets changed, and people really merit them. (this is a very general and sweeping statement, I know.)

>3)Was Saul wrong?(Based on the limited
>info i gave you)
In what case, I think that at this point in time, saul is on the right track, his position shouldnt be an end though, but a means to an end similar to Amiri.

>4)Is it wrong to point out
>the mistakes of the elders?
HELL NO, no one is above criticism. No one. And at the juncture where they no longer welcome criticism, they should seriously reflect on why they are doign what they do.
>5)How can Hip-Hop generation continue to
>make progressive change?

Do like Saul and a lot of other progressive hip hoppers and keep spreading the light. Cause we all need it... Then in the words of Drag-On, we can "flame on" if ya know what i mean.

hotep, love and life
AIM: Mello01

If knowledge was your wealth, then it would be well-earned. -Silly E. Badu

Gary, Indiana, the city of the new century. -Mello

Did you hear about the rose that grew from the concrete? -Pac

Give a dayum if any fam recall my legacy, I'm tryna live life in tha sight of God's memory... -Mos Def

Its time to get some Ghetto Heaven
-Rasheed & D'

The people, united, will never be defeated. - Talib


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Elders, Youth, Saul Williams and Black Revolution [View all] , illosopher, Tue Jan-23-01 08:22 AM
Subject Author Message Date ID
Jan 23rd 2001
RE: briefly
Jan 23rd 2001
one mo gin
Jan 23rd 2001
RE: Elders, Youth, Saul Williams and Black Revolution
Jan 23rd 2001
RE: Elders, Youth, Saul Williams and Black Revolution
Jan 23rd 2001
RE: Elders, Youth, Saul Williams and Black Revolution
Jan 23rd 2001
RE: Elders, Youth, Saul Williams and Black Revolution
Jan 23rd 2001
Respectfully disagree
Jan 23rd 2001
      RE: Respectfully disagree
Jan 23rd 2001
           In America
Jan 24th 2001
                RE: In America
Jan 24th 2001
                     I'm open for ideas
Jan 24th 2001
RE: Elders, Youth, Saul Williams and Black Revolution
Jan 23rd 2001
Jan 23rd 2001
      RE: Ye,Yea
Jan 25th 2001
RE: Elders, Youth, Saul Williams and Black Revolution
Jan 23rd 2001
RE: Elders, Youth, Saul Williams and Black Revolution
Jan 23rd 2001
RE: Elders, Youth, Saul Williams and Black Revolution
Jan 23rd 2001
At the end of the day...
Jan 23rd 2001
so 35 yrs of opportunity
Jan 24th 2001
RE: so 35 yrs of opportunity
Jan 24th 2001
Jan 24th 2001
           RE: ...
Jan 28th 2001
the situation worsens?
Jan 25th 2001
RE: Elders, Youth, Saul Williams and Black Revolution
Jan 23rd 2001
Jan 24th 2001
RE: Elders, Youth, Saul Williams and Black Revolution
Jan 24th 2001
RE: Elders, Youth, Saul Williams and Black Revolution
Jan 25th 2001
      I agree
Jan 25th 2001
           RE: I agree
Jan 26th 2001
RE: Elders, Youth, Saul Williams and Black Revolution
Jan 25th 2001
RE: Elders, Youth, Saul Williams and Black Revolution
Jan 26th 2001
      Couldn't have said it as good...
Jan 27th 2001
      I gots to holler at you in the 'Burgh sometime...
Jan 27th 2001
RE: Elders, Youth, Saul Williams and Black Revolution
Jan 28th 2001
answering the questions~
Jan 28th 2001

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