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Subject: "RE: Gays & Hell" This topic is locked.
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janey
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123124 posts
Mon Dec-04-00 01:03 PM

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9. "RE: Gays & Hell"
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There are so many issues wrapped up in your post and the responses so far and there's no way to do them all justice.

I start with issues like these is by trying to have an understanding of the person who is propounding a view that embodies hatred. I don't think people come to hatred in a vacuum. I understand that things that are different are frightening, but I also notice that people who have a broader world view, whether through education, or travel, or innate open mindedness, have a greater ability to distinguish "different" from "wrong."

I also understand that religious, theological, and spiritual issues are, by their nature, beyond our explicit understanding and the uncertainty borne of not being able to understand something quickly and completely is in itself frightening.

So I know that many people turn to simplistic religions in order to feel as though they have a hold on some answers. And even religions that are rich in theology and have truly great thinkers among their theologians can't expect the average person to understand the metaphors or grasp the subtleties.

So to me, the bottom line is that there's a fear and suspicion of people who are different from us -- because if they're NOT like me and are NOT going to hell, does that mean that people LIKE me ARE going to hell? See what I mean? People have a deep seated need to be right (I do, don't you?).

But if we believe that we are created beings, and that God created us, where do we get off telling God that his creation is wrong? But I know that this argument doesn't go anywhere with most people, because if they really believe that something (anything) is a sin they'll say it's not God's creation but man's free will. So that means that homosexuality MUST be a choice, in their minds.

I've had many arguments on these boards about whether homosexuality is a choice and I've learned that some people can change their minds about this but they have to have an open mind to start with.

But when you're discussing this with your friend, there are a couple of ways of approaching the question that might get them thinking.

One thing is this: If homosexuality is a choice, then anyone can choose it. Most people who believe that homosexuality is a choice also vilify homosexuals, so if you suggest that they too could choose homosexuality, they'll vehemently deny it. So then you say, well, if you can't choose YOUR sexuality, why do you think homosexuals can?

Another thing is this: I've heard many homosexuals say that if they HAD a choice, they would choose to be heterosexual because who would willingly sign up for the kind of abuse that homosexuals receive? So you can pose that question.

But you see, all of this discussion requires that the person with whom you're discussing the issue have the possibility of seeing other points of view. And to the extent that their religion and thus their world view requires that they accept without question the word of whoever it is that's telling them that homosexuality is bad, then you're fighting a losing battle.

On the Bible translation issue and the Old Testament vs. New Testament issue, a couple of thoughts.

I prefer the Jerusalem Bible because it is a relatively recent translation that was done from original sources and the team of people working on it was unparalleled. I find it the clearest and most beautiful translation. And it's also about as accurate a translation that you'll find. I started a master's in theology at one point (gave it up along the way) and all of the professors that I knew then would lecture with two books open in front of them -- the Bible text that they were teaching in the original language and the Jerusalem Bible.

Old Testament vs. New Testament. Think of the Old Testament (if you're thinking of it from the Christian perspective) as the history of a people forming a relationship with God and creating a language and forging a bond, all in preparation for hearing further teachings that the language (including, for example, the prophesies) have prepared them for. This will help put in context some of the harsher, less understandable things that are attributed to God. Don't expect that the writers of the Old Testament will have the same context as those of the New Testament or the context that we have today. It's actually quite valuable to read the books of the Bible (particularly the New Testament) in chronological order, as in the order in which they were written. You start to see that we assume too much if we assume that everyone is writing from our perspective, divine inspiration or no divine inspiration.

Hatred is hatred is hatred, however. I've reached a point now that I don't put any work into maintaining friendships with people who are so intolerant that they can classify ANY group as bad or sinful or whatever.

Peace.

Some days, there's nothing but air. -- Frank Romeo Cockatiel

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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Gays & Hell [View all] , kimmie_j, Mon Dec-04-00 08:40 AM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: Gays & Hell
Dec 04th 2000
1
RE: Gays & Hell
Dec 04th 2000
2
      RE: Gays & Hell
mango_child
Jan 29th 2001
110
Read "your" Bible logically
Wise_7
Dec 04th 2000
3
RE: Read "your" Bible logically
Dec 04th 2000
4
Queer as folk
Dec 04th 2000
5
      Queer as folk: Episode 2
Dec 04th 2000
7
      RE: Queer as folk
Dec 14th 2000
47
           For your info..
Dec 15th 2000
60
                who are you? Dr. York? n/m
Isa_Sabur
Jan 18th 2001
99
                It's Psalm 46:3, 9
Dulce478
Jan 23rd 2001
104
RE: Read "your" Bible logically
Dec 04th 2000
6
RE: Read "your" Bible logically
Quinn
Dec 04th 2000
10
Thank-you..
DELTA1393
Dec 05th 2000
13
Sodom & Gomorrah
Dec 12th 2000
39
      RE: Sodom & Gomorrah
Dec 13th 2000
40
      I Samuel 18 & 20
Dec 13th 2000
41
           RE: I Samuel 18 & 20
Dec 13th 2000
43
           LOL
Dec 13th 2000
45
                RE: LOL
Dec 15th 2000
58
                     RE: LOL
Dec 15th 2000
59
                          RE: LOL
Dec 18th 2000
76
                               Not that simple
Dec 18th 2000
78
           RE: I Samuel 18 & 20
Dec 13th 2000
44
      RE: Sodom & Gomorrah
Dec 13th 2000
42
      RE: Sodom & Gomorrah
Dyskotek
Jan 24th 2001
105
           Rome & Greece allowed to exist?
Jan 24th 2001
107
           hmm.....
Jan 24th 2001
108
                Good point.
Jan 25th 2001
109
oh yeah.....
Dec 04th 2000
8
RE: oh yeah.....
Dec 16th 2000
67
RE: oh yeah.....
Dec 25th 2000
84
Not tough love....
Dyskotek
Jan 24th 2001
106
RE: Read
derby
Dec 17th 2000
71
RE: Read "your" Bible logically
Jan 06th 2001
88
RE: God Janey
Dec 04th 2000
11
I accept
Dec 05th 2000
17
what about those....
Dec 05th 2000
14
Thanks for making me clarify
Dec 05th 2000
16
RE: Gays & Hell
Q5
Dec 08th 2000
32
RE: Gays & Hell
Dec 15th 2000
55
Jerusalem Bible
Dec 15th 2000
57
      RE: Jerusalem Bible
Dec 16th 2000
65
           Thanks
Dec 18th 2000
75
Who's the real sinner?
Dec 15th 2000
56
If they're saved..
DELTA1393
Dec 05th 2000
12
There are no BIG sins &
Dec 05th 2000
15
Darlin,
Dec 05th 2000
19
Well, then let me explain
Dec 05th 2000
20
      See,
Dec 05th 2000
22
Yep!
DELTA1393
Dec 05th 2000
23
JUMPING IN MAD LATE...
Dec 14th 2000
46
      RE: JUMPING IN MAD LATE...
DELTA1393
Dec 20th 2000
82
           you didn't read the post..
Jan 15th 2001
90
                Fornication is not His preference, either..
DELTA1393
Jan 18th 2001
98
                     but if it wasn't...
Jan 23rd 2001
103
Most religious texts were...
Dec 05th 2000
18
Right, but
Dec 05th 2000
21
      RE: Right, but
Dec 05th 2000
24
           RE: Right, but
Dec 05th 2000
25
           RE: Right, but
Dec 05th 2000
26
                Agreed
Dec 05th 2000
27
                RE: Agreed
Dec 05th 2000
28
                     That's a hard one
Dec 05th 2000
29
                          Hair splitter!
Dec 05th 2000
30
                               No, no
Dec 05th 2000
31
                good point, Kimmie_j
Dec 15th 2000
49
RE: Gays & Hell
Marinera
Dec 09th 2000
33
RE: Gays & Hell
Synsethius
Dec 09th 2000
34
RE: Gays & Hell
Dec 10th 2000
35
RE: Gays & Hell
phizzdat
Dec 12th 2000
36
so much in the head
d-Best
Dec 12th 2000
37
Here I go.
Dec 12th 2000
38
right on...n/m
Dec 15th 2000
52
HotThyng76
stanwooh
Dec 15th 2000
53
      Stanwooh
Dec 15th 2000
54
Something to think about
Dec 14th 2000
48
OH GOD,OLU!!!
Dec 15th 2000
50
LOL
Dec 16th 2000
68
RE: Something to think about
Tex
Jan 06th 2001
89
my two cents
Dec 15th 2000
51
RE: Gays & Hell
tressy
Dec 15th 2000
61
Every word of tressy's post.........
Jan 15th 2001
91
Mental Masturbation
Dec 15th 2000
62
Yeah, im a sissy...
Dec 15th 2000
63
Hey Juba!
Dec 16th 2000
64
RE: Mental Masturbation
Dec 16th 2000
69
God is love!!!
Dec 16th 2000
66
YOU BETTA PREACH, BROWNSUGAR!!!
Jan 16th 2001
93
RE: Gays & Hell
derby
Dec 17th 2000
70
RE: Gays & Hell
SheRise
Dec 17th 2000
72
What I'm wonderin
Dec 18th 2000
73
RE: What I'm wonderin
Dec 18th 2000
74
      Well,
Dec 18th 2000
77
RE: Gays & Hell
Dec 18th 2000
79
sodom and gomorah
Dec 18th 2000
80
RE: sodom and gomorah
Mike Rothbaum
Dec 29th 2000
87
YES!
Omari
Dec 19th 2000
81
black omniverse
Dec 20th 2000
83
      RE: Lmao!!!!
monstaz
Dec 26th 2000
85
RE: Gays & Hell
orangecrush13
Dec 28th 2000
86
for pointfivefag~
Jan 16th 2001
92
poem is hot, Tahji! :)n/m
Jan 16th 2001
94
That was cool
Jan 16th 2001
95
RE: That was cool
Jan 16th 2001
96
WOW.
Jan 17th 2001
97
go 'head Rude n/m
Jan 19th 2001
100
Okay........
insomnia
Jan 23rd 2001
101
RE: Okay........
Jan 23rd 2001
102

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