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Subject: "saleh's 2 cents" This topic is locked.
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abduhu
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Tue Apr-08-03 06:37 AM

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108. "saleh's 2 cents"
In response to In response to 0


          

salaamun 'alaa man attaba'aa alhuda

here are some links to a book (partial) that i posted a couple of years ago, and the thread was archived, but isnt anymore.

im going to post one of the pages dealing with predestination.
you might have to read through the others to fully understand, but in general i think ppl will get the gist of it.

http://www.ahya.org/books/qadar/qadar7.html
? Some people say, ‘why should we work and exert efforts when we know that Allah knows everything we will do, knows our destiny to either Paradise or Hell, and that He is the Creator of our deeds? Let the Qadar (pre-destined matters) befall upon us and we shall receive whatever comes whether we wish it or not!

? Others say, “If every sin or wrongdoing is a preordained matter, so what is the fault of the one who commits them?

* Both groups blame Al-Qadar which is in reality an accusation against Allah, His Names and Attributes. It implies that Allah loves Kufr, Shirk, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, ill-treatment of parents and all other sins and wrong-doings {1}
Allah is High above such implication. The fact that Allah wills and creates what He wills, does not necessitate that His will is also something He likes. His Mashee’ah, as discussed earlier in the explanation of Al-lradah Al-Kawniyyah and Al-lradah Ash-Shar’iyyah, is not the same as His Attribute of Love. The sayings of both groups do not differentiate between belief and disbelief, good and bad, justice and injustice etc. It leads, as Sheykh ul-Islam Ibn Taymeeyah said: “..to disbelief in the Messengers, the Books of Revelation. To him (who utters the sayings of the above groups), Adam and Moses, Noah and his people, Moses and the Pharaoh, the early Muslims and the Kuffar, are the same!”

Al-Fatawa, V. 8, P.100
In fact it attributes injustice to Allah! He is Most Glorified and High above what they utter or do. They only blame Al-Qadar for their own deeds and free themselves of any wrong-doing. “Implicit in their claims is the objective of eliminating Al-lradah Ash-Shartiyyah and thus the Commands of Allah: the Lawful and the un-Lawful, the Promise (Paradise) and the Threat (Hell), and those who do this are in a state of Kuffr that is greater than that of the Jews and Christians.” {2}
It is true that Allah willed the existence of Kuffr, Shirk, sins, disobedience, theft, usury, etc. but He, the Most High, hated these matters and commanded His slaves not to commit them.

* Allah decreed the results and their causes. Whoever claims that he does not want to go and search for his provisions but instead waits for Al-Qadar, does not comprehend the Taqdeer of Allah in His slaves:

“So walk in the path thereof (on earth) and eat from His Provisions.”
Soorah al-Insan (76): 15
If Allah had ordained that He will give a person a child, it means that He had ordained for this person to have a wife and have intercourse with her. He ordained illness and ordained its medicine, and that when the ill-man takes the ordained medicine he will be cured. The child does not come without a cause, the produce does not flourish without water and soil, having a full stomach does not occur without food, and quenching thirst does not occur without water or a lawful drink.
* Allah ordained for one person that, he supplicates to Him and seeks refuge in Him, and that Allaah answers his call. And ordained that another will not invoke Him and seek His help. Thus, He leaves the later to hiself, and he stays miserable: And Your Rabb said,

‘Supplicate to Me, I will respond to your (Invocation)’
Soorah Ghafir (40): 60
* The best answer for both groups lies in the saying of the Prophet (salallahu alaihi wa salalam) when he was asked by his companions about the benefit of performing good deeds when they are preordained by Allah. His answer was “Carry on doing (good) deeds, for everybody will find easy to do such deeds as will lead him to his destined place for which he has been created, and he recited: {As for him who gives (in charity) and keeps his duty to Allah and fears Him, And believes in Al-Husna, we will make smooth for him the path of ease (goodness); But he who is greedy miser and thinks himself self-sufficient, and gives the lie to Al-Husna, we will make smooth for him the path for evil}
Saheeh Al-Bukhan, V. 6, Hadeeth # 472
One of the companions of the Prophet (salallahu alaihi wa salalam) who understood the meaning of the Hadeeth said: “I have never been so motivated as I am now.”

* Recognizing the means does not mean that we depend upon them, but we should depend upon their Creator - “Allah”. Sheikh ul-Islam Ibn Taymeeyah said: “Relying on the means, alone, is Shirk, and not recognizing their role as means, is a lack of good reason. Completely turning away from them is an insult to Sharee'ah. True dependence and hope (in Allah) comprises: Tawheed, Sharee’ah, and reasoning. Indeed, seeking the means alone, reflects the heart’s dependence and reliance upon them. In fact no creature (The means are part of Allah’s creation) deserves this status, because they (i.e. the means) are not independent; they need associates (as co-partners) as well as contrasts. Besides, means that Allah does not make subservient, would not be so. This shows that Allah is the Rabb and Owner of everything

AI-Fetawa V. 8, P. 170
Every means has its copartner and contrast. So if the partner does not help, and the contrast is not averted, the means will not be manifested: Rain, for example, will not be effective in the growth of plantation except by what joins in of the air, soil, etc. The plants will not grow well unless all rotting and spoiling matters are removed. Food and drink will not provide nutrition unless the body organs are proper and healthy. In short, to have useful results, all spoiling, corruptive, and improper means are to be averted.”
Al-Fatawa V. 8, P. 167
* Those who take Al-Qadar as a pretext for doing sinful and unlawful acts, should not blame anyone who may inflict harm upon them using the same excuse. They should not hate anyone, or accuse anyone of injustice regardless of the horrible crimes that may be committed. By all means, their arguments are baseless and may lead the world into destruction.

about knowledge
http://www.ahya.org/books/qadar/qadar2.html

about will
http://www.ahya.org/books/qadar/qadar4.html

about creation
http://www.ahya.org/books/qadar/qadar5.html

the book (not complete)
http://www.ahya.org/books/qadar/qadar.html




  

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Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience... [View all] , McDeezNuts, Tue Apr-01-03 06:18 AM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
where are you getting these premises from?
Apr 01st 2003
1
I just made them up, it's not for an essay or anything.
Apr 01st 2003
2
      question things?
Apr 01st 2003
4
           Questioning is necessary for true faith and belief
Apr 01st 2003
5
           you're setting up parameters again.
Apr 01st 2003
7
           RE: you're setting up parameters again.
Apr 01st 2003
11
                LOL. dude. you're doing it again.
Apr 01st 2003
13
                     RE: LOL. dude. you're doing it again.
Apr 01st 2003
16
                     perhaps he "believed" in God.
Apr 01st 2003
18
                     LOL. I see what you're saying. But...
Apr 01st 2003
19
                          look.
Apr 01st 2003
21
           oh yeah.
Apr 01st 2003
10
                I definitely see what you're saying.
Apr 01st 2003
14
                     if i were you...
Apr 01st 2003
17
                          Cool, thanks.
Apr 01st 2003
20
           i don't agree w/ that either.
Apr 03rd 2003
61
Free Will vs Freedom
Apr 01st 2003
3
all are true
Apr 01st 2003
6
RE: all are true
Apr 01st 2003
8
      god doesn't hope
Apr 01st 2003
9
      example of one that is carnal minded
Apr 01st 2003
12
           how else will you know God?
Apr 01st 2003
15
                RE: how else will you know God?
Apr 01st 2003
22
                     huh?
Apr 01st 2003
23
      that's always been my conundrum...
Apr 01st 2003
24
           angels are different from men...
Apr 01st 2003
25
           RE: that's always been my conundrum...
Apr 02nd 2003
31
RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 01st 2003
26
RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 02nd 2003
30
      RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 02nd 2003
32
      exactly
Apr 07th 2003
107
      RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 02nd 2003
33
God predestines all. Man has no freewill.
Apr 01st 2003
27
here is some biblical support:
Apr 01st 2003
28
RE: here is some biblical support:
Apr 02nd 2003
34
      please be mindful of
Apr 02nd 2003
36
cool
Apr 02nd 2003
29
RE: cool
Apr 02nd 2003
39
      .
Apr 02nd 2003
40
           Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 02nd 2003
42
                RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 02nd 2003
43
                RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 02nd 2003
44
                RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 03rd 2003
59
                     RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 03rd 2003
63
                          RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 04th 2003
72
                               YEAH!!!
Apr 04th 2003
76
                                    RE: YEAH!!!
Apr 04th 2003
78
                RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 02nd 2003
49
                     RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 03rd 2003
51
                          RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 03rd 2003
53
                               RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 03rd 2003
57
                                    RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 03rd 2003
58
                                    RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 03rd 2003
68
                                    RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 03rd 2003
67
                                         RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 04th 2003
71
                                              RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 04th 2003
74
                                                   RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 04th 2003
77
                                                        RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 04th 2003
81
                                                             RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 10th 2003
110
                                                                  RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 10th 2003
112
                                                                       RE: Is Evil really Evil?.....
Apr 11th 2003
113
How did you utilize the "Hebrew" words like that in you
Apr 02nd 2003
41
In Yoruba...
Apr 02nd 2003
35
that's the closest to what i've believed
Apr 03rd 2003
62
      i know huh?
Apr 03rd 2003
70
RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 02nd 2003
37
RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 02nd 2003
45
      RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 02nd 2003
46
      I use the word...
Apr 02nd 2003
50
      RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 03rd 2003
55
           RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 03rd 2003
64
linearity/constancy of time
Apr 02nd 2003
38
RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 02nd 2003
47
RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 02nd 2003
48
      NO! Damn, closed minded a bit, are we?
Apr 03rd 2003
52
           RE: NO! Damn, closed minded a bit, are we?
Apr 03rd 2003
54
                Didn't mean to jump to conclusions...
Apr 04th 2003
73
                     Question
Apr 05th 2003
84
                          RE: Question
Apr 07th 2003
98
                               RE: Question
Apr 07th 2003
104
other important scriptures/predestination
Apr 03rd 2003
56
i'll read the replies, but my 1st inclination
Apr 03rd 2003
60
Hey I didnt read the whole thread but......
Apr 03rd 2003
65
      The Best Response Thus Far
Apr 04th 2003
80
      RE: The Best Response Thus Far
Apr 04th 2003
82
           RE: The Best Response Thus Far
Apr 05th 2003
86
                ...
Apr 05th 2003
88
                     completely within the topic.......minus the big 3 view
Apr 06th 2003
90
                          RE: completely within the topic.......minus the big 3 v
Apr 06th 2003
91
                               RE: completely within the topic.......minus the big 3 v
Apr 07th 2003
106
      this is important
Apr 05th 2003
83
           RE: this is important
Apr 05th 2003
87
No answer but,
Apr 03rd 2003
66
God is omniscient NOT omnipotent...
Apr 03rd 2003
69
RE: God is omniscient NOT omnipotent...
Apr 04th 2003
75
RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 04th 2003
79
God body..
Apr 05th 2003
85
The Universe is my Body, BUT
Apr 06th 2003
89
      RE: The Universe is my Body, BUT
Apr 06th 2003
92
There is no spoon
Apr 06th 2003
93
More on this
Apr 06th 2003
94
My perspective on free will...
Apr 06th 2003
95
RE: Free will vs predestination, God's omniscience...
Apr 06th 2003
96
participate if you want to...
Apr 07th 2003
97
actually, this was the disclaimer
Apr 07th 2003
99
this is good discussion material...
Apr 07th 2003
100
RE: this is good discussion material...
Apr 07th 2003
101
well...
Apr 07th 2003
103
      RE: well...
Apr 07th 2003
105
RE: this is good discussion material...
Apr 07th 2003
102
Archive please
Apr 10th 2003
109
My thoughts...
Apr 10th 2003
111

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