>
>>Of course, without colonialism, it seems
>>to me that there would
>>be no reason to CARE
>>about European ideals of beauty
>>in the first place if
>>you weren't interested in Europe.
>
>>Also, if Egyptians came up
>>with much of the concepts
>>we use in the fashion
>>industry today, what would that
>>matter to a group that
>>is culturally different like the
>>Yoruba?
>
>You need to go to There
>is a Light post and
>read these issues there- to
>be brief Egypt was the
>cosmopolitan nation that demonstrated your
>idea of the "worldwide community"
>given ample evidence of their
>traditions it is easy to
>show that the ideals of
>"beauty"- as we come to
>know it regarding leisure would
>have still favor light skinned
>women. The ideologies of Egypt
>might have mattered to Yoruba
>peoples as Egypt represented a
>great number of cultures and
>might have held the Yoruba
>people in high esteem due
>to their dark complexion. Today
>the fashion industry still draws
>from Greece and Rome which
>of course drew from Egypt
>the point is not to
>throw the baby out with
>the bath watre- but to
>harken back to an earlier
>society - Egypt - that
>held a variety of regard
>and significance for a variety
>of complexions.


I'm not sure which time period you're talking about in Egypt...but before Columbus, in the trans saharan slave trade, a heavy Arabic influence became part of Egypt,as more Arabs moved into Egypt and did enslave Africans from other parts of the continent and from Europe, too. The women who closest fit the Arabic standard of beauty were the most prized..naturally, that standard of beauty was of people who looked most like them.

>Let's not just blame the impression
>made by European culture and
>whatever effects we suppose it
>has on black people- let's
>look to see where the
>Europeans got it from and
>we might find the stuff
>that they forgot.
>
>>>Should a dark sister be dismayed
>>>that there are no dark
>>>women in Vogue- hell no-
>>>fuck Vogue.
>>
>>No, she shouldn't...but shouldn't is different
>>from won't. Not seeing "positive"
>>images of yourself (depending on
>>your pov) can damage a
>>person's self-esteem. Of course, some
>>people will be like "eff
>>Vogue"...but others won't. And it
>>would behoove us all as
>>people to eliminate the social
>>institution of beauty.
>
>This is where I SERIOUSLY disagree.
>Not seeing "positive" images very
>much depends on where you
>are looking. If there are
>a great number of dark
>skinned mothers, dark skinned doctors,
>dark skinned teachers, etc- I
>detest the idea that it
>all amounts to nothing until
>we get them on the
>cover of a magazine- or
>sitcom.

It doesn't all amount to nothing, but it does amount to SOMETHING. Beauty, though it does affect what jobs you get, really has its greatest impact in the social sphere, in my opinion. You can be an esteemed actress like Whoopi Goldberg and STILL have people saying you are ugly because of your skin and your features. It won't affect everyone equally, because we're all different. What's water off one duck's back is cripping to another.

>The institution of beauty is what
>it is- I dont see
>the point in trying to
>change it or eliminate it
>in the vain attempt that
>it will resolve the natural
>insecurity of human kind. Should
>we eliminate all beautiful people
>for the sake of people
>who dont feel as attractive?
>Would it behoove people who
>pride themselves in their beauty
>to diminish the ideas that
>make them beautiful- who do
>you suggest we prohibit those
>ideas?

You're going a bit too far there. I'm saying, the institution of beauty should be eliminated because it is not very inclusive. The elimination of it wouldn't solve insecurity, however, it would be a weight off of those people who are hindered by society's ideals of what's beautiful and what ain't.

And honestly, do people REALLY think that they can REALLY get rid of racism and sexism? I think most people would think not. But should we try anyway? Yes. Why? Because it is a hindrance to all of us. Why? Because it dwarfs potential. Same goes with the institution of beauty.

We shouldn't go around killing people. I'm not an advocate of prohibition, you can't MAKE people do anything.



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