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Subject: "You have no knowledge of Islam." This topic is locked.
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Yusuf

Mon Apr-23-01 09:05 AM

  
42. "You have no knowledge of Islam."
In response to In response to 41


          

>Hotep
>
>One of the reasons why I
>use the term "Western" more
>often than "European" is to
>INCLUDE Arabs and other "Middle-Eastern"
>groups. Historically Indo-Europeans stemmed from
>the Northern areas in the
>convergent area of Europe and
>Asia, hence the use of
>Eurasian. The "Aryans" that
>invaded India were one in
>the same as these Indo-Europeans
>and so were the LATER
>"Persians" as the earliest inhabitants
>of the "Middle-East" were Afrakan.
> Later on we find
>the emergence of a nomadic/pastoral
>people now designated as "Arabs."
> Though there was misgenation
>between Afrakans and Ind0-European
>groups, one can see that
>the Arabs were clearly more
>similar CULTURALLY to their Indo-European
>predecessors. The fact that
>they CONTINUED the legacy of
>the Judeo-Christian tradition through the
>revelation of Allah and Islam
>is significant in understanding that
>they represented, yet another group
>of Westerners. Although they are
>different on multiple levels, on
>the fundamental level of conceptualizing
>the universe they are inherently
>"Western."

This makes no sense. Even the level of the weakness of the Muslims at the present time shows you how much the West hates Islam. How much the West hates the ideas Islam holds regarding worship, economics, politics, society, etc. Your argument is easily defeated by what is going on right now, there is not even a need to look into history. But if you really look at history, you will see the same thing. The Crusaders made up lies about the Muslims in Jerusalem and then attempted to invade and succeeded in killing Muslims, raping women and children because they were Westerners and had similar ideas? Ehh.. I don't think so.

>*My comments on Islam within this
>paradigm are based on my
>general knowledge of Islam, comments
>made by Muslims (particularly the
>okayummah), deeper readings into the
>history and practices of Afraka
>and the "middle East."
>Please bring in Quranic references
>to correct any misunderstanding that
>you may see)

You make an entire judgement on a way of life that more than 1 out of every 4 people on this planet follow on GENERAL knowledge? Don't you see ANY problem with that?

I will use the Qur'an for some parts, but I'm not sure if you've even read the Qur'an judging from your comparisons.

>Afrakan vs. EURASIAN
>
>Basic Assumptions/Cosmological view:
>
>Natural Order vs Natural Chaos
>
>-This includes the concept of man's
>inherent "sinfulness."

Your ignorance of Islam begins, but will never end, here. There is no concept of being born with sin in Islam. In fact, it is believed that everyone is born in fitrah (a natural state, inclining towards worship of Allah). Every person is responsible for their own lives, and no ones sins can be put on another persons. This is a reason we deny that Issa (as) or Jesus was sent to die for anyone.

Surah Ar-Rum
30. So set you (O Muhammad saw) your face towards the religion (of pure Islamic Monotheism) Hanif (worship none but Allah Alone). Allah's Fitrah (i.e. Allah's Islamic Monotheism) with which He has created mankind. No change let there be in Khalq-illah (i.e. the religion of Allah - Islamic Monotheism): that is the straight religion, but most of men know not.

** Notice this verse stresses the BALANCE of Islam, by saying it is the straight religion.

>Complementarity vs Opposing Opposites
>
>-The strict division between LIGHT/DARK can
>be seen in Persian tradition
>such as Mithraism and Zoroastarianism.
> Also its presence found
>in the Islam through the
>designation of Allah as ultimate
>good and Shaytan as ultimate
>evil.

Once again... you make a mistake by giving Allah an opponent. Knowing that Allah is without peer or opponent is common knowledge about Islam.

I shouldn't have to provide evidence for this from Al-Qur'an.. this really is common knowledge of Islam.

>Philosophical Orientation:
>
>Spiritualism vs Materialism
>
>-Allah is the CREATOR separate from
>HIS creations.

How does this deny Spiritualism? Things are created by Allah, this is the reality of existence. The Ruh (spirit) is mentioned many times in Al-Qur'an.

>Collectivism vs.Individualism
>
>-Islam is largely collective in its
>orientation.

Wrong. It is both collective and personal.

>Cultural Focus:
>
>Culture optimal For Each specific Group
>vs One's own culture is
>optimal for every other group
>
>
>-ISlam is the ONLY (ALLAH'S) truth
>and must be spread across
>the world, across cultures.

Islam allows freedom of cultural expression. One of the greatest proofs can be seen in something simple as dress and the architectures of masjids all over the world.

>Psychological Model:
>
>Cultural Context of Behavior vs Individual
>Behavior
>-From a cultural perspective one is
>supposed to act within the
>confines of Allah's word, thus
>behavior is seen a "cultural"
>in a sense, however (see
>next one)
>
>Cultural Differences In Psychological Functioning vs
>Western Psychological Functioning as Standard
>
>- Islam is a religion that
>"transcends" cultures. Thus "cultures"
>as viable entities that define
>one's life, standards and psychological
>functioning, are negate with the
>"Islamic" view. Instead of
>ISlam being seen as an
>emanation of Arabic culture, IT
>(or Allah) assert itself as
>THE WAY of the UNIVERSE
>and all cultures are subordinate.
> However in practice, the
>more one becomes closer to
>practicing TRUE Islam, one becomes
>culturally more "Arabic" in orientation.

How does one become more "Arabic" ? The practices of Muslims even in Arabia do not match that of pre-Islamic Arabia.

>Holistic/internal (self-knowledge) vs Empiricism/External
>
>-The need for INFALLIBLE SCRIPTURE.

Al-Qur'an is a guidance and is infallible, but Allah has given man natural instincts to assist in seeing the signs of Him. If you actually read the Qur'an, you will notice how often Allah commands man to look and study nature and the universe to realize that within is one of the greatest signs.


You try to make Islam either one or the other, but it is not this. It is both of the two, it is balanced. This is why it is called the Straight and Middle Path because it doesn't fall into the excess on either end in any aspect.

  

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AFRAKAN VS. EUROPEAN WORLDVIEW [View all] , Solarus, Thu Mar-29-01 08:50 AM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
UNIVERSALISM FALLS UNDER THESE TWO:
utamaroho
Mar 29th 2001
1
you see!
utamaroho
Mar 29th 2001
2
no other culture besides
Mar 29th 2001
3
and no other culture...
utamaroho
Mar 29th 2001
6
you beat me to it!
Mar 29th 2001
5
let's keep this civil
utamaroho
Mar 29th 2001
7
      Nah, that ain't the water technique
Mar 29th 2001
13
           RE: Nah, that ain't the water technique
Mar 30th 2001
21
                feel you
utamaroho
Apr 01st 2001
26
Amen
Mar 29th 2001
11
RE: UNIVERSALISM FALLS UNDER THESE TWO:
dobiewonk
Mar 29th 2001
18
RE: UNIVERSALISM FALLS UNDER THESE TWO:
Mar 29th 2001
19
      Nope...
Apr 01st 2001
25
           How do you know?
Apr 09th 2001
33
                RE: How do you know?
Apr 10th 2001
34
                     treat her like a prostitute
Apr 10th 2001
35
                          fair enough.
Apr 10th 2001
36
                               Never seen before...
Apr 10th 2001
37
                                    RE: Never seen before...
Apr 10th 2001
38
                                    Respect
Apr 11th 2001
39
                                         hahahahaha!
Apr 23rd 2001
44
                                    DAMN SEND BUTTON
Apr 11th 2001
40
RE: UNIVERSALISM FALLS UNDER THESE TWO:
nelle30087
Apr 03rd 2001
27
more examples:
utamaroho
Mar 29th 2001
4
I just posted this is General
Mar 29th 2001
8
look at it now...as expected
utamaroho
Mar 29th 2001
17
      RE: look at it now...as expected
CROCODILE HUNTER
Mar 29th 2001
20
REALITY OF THE WEST
utamaroho
Mar 29th 2001
9
RE: AFRAKAN VS. EUROPEAN WORLDVIEW
Mar 29th 2001
10
RE: AFRAKAN VS. EUROPEAN WORLDVIEW
utamaroho
Mar 29th 2001
12
      RE: AFRAKAN VS. EUROPEAN WORLDVIEW
Mar 29th 2001
14
      wow...!
Apr 03rd 2001
29
VIEW OF THE NATURAL
utamaroho
Mar 29th 2001
15
FROM THIS WE GET
utamaroho
Mar 29th 2001
16
From A so-called Westerner,
Marinera
Mar 30th 2001
22
i find it interesting
utamaroho
Apr 01st 2001
23
      True
Marinera
Apr 01st 2001
24
WHY ARGUE WHAT U SHOULD ALREADY KNOW!
Omari
Apr 03rd 2001
28
IT'S ABOUT TIME
utamaroho
Apr 04th 2001
30
RE: WHY ARGUE WHAT U SHOULD ALREADY KNOW!
nelle30087
Apr 04th 2001
31
Another example
Apr 09th 2001
32
Where ISLAM fits into this
Apr 23rd 2001
41
I CAUGHT THIS EARLIER
utamaroho
Apr 23rd 2001
43
You have no knowledge of
Apr 23rd 2001
46
Where's abduhu when you need him?
Apr 23rd 2001
45
hahaha
Yusuf
Apr 24th 2001
47
concerning post 47
utamaroho
Apr 24th 2001
48
RE: your paradigm......
Apr 24th 2001
49
      GLAD YOU'RE BACK
utamaroho
Apr 24th 2001
50
      RE: GLAD YOU'RE BACK
Apr 24th 2001
51
           ok
utamaroho
Apr 24th 2001
52
                RE: ok
Apr 24th 2001
53
                     I SUBMIT, once and for all...
utamaroho
Apr 24th 2001
54
                          whty "the straw"?
Apr 24th 2001
56
      solarus.. see post#49.
Apr 24th 2001
55
      You are half -right
Apr 24th 2001
57
           RE: You bout to.....
Apr 24th 2001
58

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