>
>True, but I feel that poor
>Black people FEEL racism more
>then wealthier ones.

I agree but you asked what's the biggest problem most Blacks face? How can it be poverty if more Blacks face racism despite the degrees of racism they face.

>
>
>>Who can't feed their family when
>>you have WIC and all
>>the other programs not to
>>mention jobs?
>
>There is a significant difference between
>just "surviving" E.g. a Constant
>Struggle and "Flourishing" survival isn't
>a concern, the magnitude by
>you succeed or "Flourish" is.
>

I agree but if you can survive you can succeed and flourish. it's the first step.

>
>>How long do we stay in
>>a inning. During a baseball
>>game eventually you get to
>>the last inning and the
>>game is over.
>
>The fat lady has yet to
>sing on this game.
>

True

>
>>>If 60-80% of Blacks were economically
>>>successful and there was still
>>>no change in the racial
>>>dynamics of this country....THEN I'd
>>>call Booker T. a failure.
>>
>>
>>Given the increased attacks on Blacks
>>anytime we make gains I
>>doubt we will see numbers
>>that high. Is that the
>>percentage for Asians, Jews and
>>other groups smaller than whites?
>
>I don't know......I do know that
>with Asians, they're not as
>successful as their average incomes
>may seem. What happens is
>that a lot of them
>are doing exceedingly well and
>padding the numbers and "hiding"
>those who aren't.

That's what I've read.

>
>However, I wouldn't be surprised if
>60-80% of Jews were in
>the top 30-40% of this
>country in terms of economic
>success.


That sounds right

>
>Regardless, I don't BELIEVE or rather
>I REFUSE to believe that
>the empowerment of Blacks can
>be stopped. We were never
>supposed to escape slavery, fly
>planes, escape Jim Crow, see
>the Civil Rights Act passed,
>succeed in science and Business
>or do any number of
>things that Whites said we
>couldn't/would never/weren't capable of doing...despite
>their efforts to stop us.

I'm not suggesting that empwerment of Blacks can be stopped. I agree Blacks beat the odds every day. I believe we have to make sure we hit the right targets with the right weapon.

>
>
>Blacks accomplish things on a daily
>basis now that even 30
>years ago, Whites would scoff
>that we would be able
>to do. Just 15 years
>ago, it was said that
>"No one with a tan
>could get hired at American
>Express" E.g. No one who
>wasn't a wasp could get
>a job there, let alone
>work as an executive. Jan
>1 a Black man took
>over as CEO.....another Brotha is
>in line to do the
>same at Merrill Lynch.
>
>Small things, just TWO men after
>all. BUT, even 10 years
>ago.....a lot of people would've
>thought it would be impossible.


I'm not saying economic empowerment is impossible, I agree with it. I just think it will take more. Money runs this country but corruption and racism run this country too.

>
>
>My point is that I don't
>believe Whites CAN stop us
>at this point.

I'm not sayin Whites can stop us I just dont want to see a repeat of intergration.

>
>>Locally it has value, I can't
>>see any value on a
>>national level.
>
>Perhaps.
>
>I suspect that we'll make the
>biggest impact in our local
>governments, move to state and
>then to national. BUT, right
>now...we just don't know.


I agree, we will make an impact locally and maybe state to state but national, I just can't see it.

>
>>a teen in a car,
>>Blacks at a costume
>>party. Maybe they are
>>not shooting the people who
>>are pulled over for driving
>>while Black but any number
>>of those stops could turn
>>into a death regardless of
>>where it occurs. They prey
>>on Blacks period. Agreed
>>good laywer is always better
>>than nothing BUT even a
>>good lawyer is powerless against
>>a corrupt racist system.
>
>I really don't believe Blacks are
>that powerless and everyone in
>the system isn't corrupt, racist
>or even White. Furthermore, they
>aren't shooting enough of us
>or incarcerating enough of us
>to stop us from Advancing.

I am not trying to imply or suggest blacks are powerless. I think any lawyer or any person that is fair and out to do good will run into a brick wall when it comes to the justice system no matter what color. Everyone in the system does not have to be corrupt, racist or white for the system to be corrupt and racist. Look at the police, all it takes is a few bad cops and the blue wall of silence(whatever it's called) I'm not trying to give the impression that we can be stopped by a racist, corrupt system.

>
>
>Every year on a % basis:
>
>
>-More Blacks Attend College
>-More Blacks graduate from college
>-Blacks increase their incomes (faster then
>anyone else)
>-The crime rate amongst Blacks goes
>down. (faster then anyone else
>- just proving the links
>between economics and crime)
>
>Racist White America doesn't want this
>isht to happen, but we
>do it anyway.
>
>They can shoot us, put us
>in jail, beat us, oppress
>us, deny us access......but it
>just delays the inevitable.


True but we must make sure that we do not get misdirected.

>
>>I agree money helps when it
>>comes to education but it's
>>the connections with money that
>>get kids from affluent families
>>jobs more then the school
>>they went to our the
>>education they have. I've seen
>>people who can't read get
>>hired and promoted while people
>>with degrees and diplomas were
>>blocked from receiving what they
>>earned.
>
>Be careful with the definition of
>Affluent. Affluent (to me) means
>family income greater then 80K,
>which puts you in the
>top 20% of families in
>the country.

Yeah, I think we are defining affluent different. I would start at 150k and go up.

>
>A lot of these families don't
>have connections, will need financial
>aid to pay for school
>(and/or loans) and get into
>colleges on their own merits.
>BUT, they push their kids
>harder, their kids have the
>example of their parents to
>follow, they take SAT study
>courses starting as High School
>Freshman. I took the PSAT
>as a sophmore, at my
>high school.....they didn't really give
>you a choice.

I don't see how these families can be considered affluent if they don't have any connections and they need finacial aid to pay for school. I don't know if they push their kids harder then any other group since most parents want the best for their kids.

>
>In any event, I grew up
>around these kids.....they don't have
>it that easy. It's the
>rare few that get everything
>handed to them. I've seen
>that too......like this guy at
>my job who makes 300k+
>and is an idiot and
>everyone knows it. We have
>to compensate for him sometimes
>and it's ridiculous, it basically
>takes 2 people to do
>his job...Him and someone else
>to cover for him.

I have seen just the opposite. I remember watching kids from families who were not even near the 80k getting jobs, promotions and raises because they went to church with someone or they had a friend on the job. Some guys got loans and bought land because they knew so and so. This was the norm. The Blacks who worked hard as temps were dissed. Now if this is going on under the 80k you can imagine what's going on at 80k and above.

>
>I suspect his Dad invested in
>the company to get it
>going.
>
>But, the rest of the employees
>are working their asses off......people
>like him are in the
>minority.

Not from the experience I had and based on what others told me.

>
>>I would expect kids from wealthy
>>families to do good on
>>the SAT but I don't
>>think they need that to
>>get into the top 25
>>schools just look at Bush.
>> True yor income is
>>the difference between the best
>>schools and the average schools
>>but I don't think the
>>top 25 are out looking
>>for wealthy Black kids to
>>enroll.
>>
>
>Significant difference between the top 20%
>of wage earners and someone
>like Bush (less then 1%
>of the population) a lot
>of those people work for
>what they get....they have a
>"boost" because of their families,
>but they still have to
>work for it. I've seen
>what it takes for a
>kid of family making 80k
>or even as high as
>400k to get into a
>top school. The well heeled
>AND well connected are very
>few.


Well that goes back to defining affluent. I see it as more than 80k since that could indicate you have two people earning 40k a piece. I don't see how a kid from a family with 400k would have a hard time getting in a top school when all his family has to do is throw some money the schools way. I don't think rich alumnis have any problem getting their kids in.

>
>
>>You can have all the knowledge
>>in the world and it
>>won't be enough because it's
>>a racist corrupt system.
>
>Not everyone in it is corrupt
>and they can only delay
>us, not stop us.

I'm not saying the corrupt system will stop us. I'm saying it will take more then working the system to beat it. Everyone does not have to be corrupt for the system to be corrupt. Most whistle blowers catch more hell then the people or system they exposed

>
>
>
>>Do you think any of that
>>comes into play when banks
>>are redlining? What about when
>>your Business model will comptete
>>with a white business, or
>>it might hurt a white
>>business?
>
>Redling isn't the Racist tactic people
>make it out to be,
>(particularly since it happens to
>poor whites just as often)
>basically a Bank decides that
>it's no longer profitable to
>operate a Branch in a
>community where:

I disagree. It may happen to poor whites just as often as Blacks(although I have not seen anything that indicates that it does) but it does not happen to middle class Whites as much as it does to middle class Blacks. I doubt it's profits alone that cause a Bank to close a Branch, they use that as an excuse to avoid getting caught by the Community Reinvestment Act, if they don't have a branch open they don't have to worry about the violating the Act.


>
>#1. People don't invest
>
>#2. People don't maintain high Balances
>in their accounts
>
>#3. People have no use for
>asset management services
>
>#4. Most people are renting, and
>aren't going to be taking
>out a Mortgage.
>
>The above 4 things I mentioned
>are a Banks Bread-N-Butter.....and are
>not prevalant in poor communities.
>I live in an area
>that is fairly well off
>and there are about 20
>Banks in a 3-5 minute
>radius from here and it
>seems like they open new
>ones all the time.

Yeah but redlining was found in middle class Black communities too. I've seen alot of banks in a Black neighborhood too but I didn't see any investment in the neighborhood.

>About 8 - 10 miles west
>of here, begins the Wayne
>- Wynnewood wealth strip of
>the philly metro area. There
>are even more banks there,
>it seems like there are
>4 on every square Block.


I've seen plenty of banks in Black communities but that's not enough if they are rejecting Black loan applicants. I've seen people trying to develop some property and start a business but they were denied while the white community can't open new business fast enough.

>
>
>Anyway, the point is that Banks
>go to where they can
>make money.

If they are doing that then they must have just changed recently. I've seen information out there that says different. Banks had to be pressured by the govenrment,embrassed by the media, and forced by laws passed by Congress to treat Black communities equally.

>I've seen Bank lending from the
>inside and the Business Model
>thing isn't likely to happen
>for the following reasons:

I used the business model thing, because you said " if they don't think that your Business model is all that great, they may downgrade you"

>
>-Banks are looking at YOU when
>you're trying to get a
>loan. They don't compare Business
>Models (nor do they have
>time to) the environment is
>too fast paced to start
>comparing a new applicant to
>other Businesses, particularly on a
>race basis.

In a big city they may not have enough time but in smaller cities they do.

>
>-What usually happens is that a
>bank has to make a
>judgement call on a loan.
>So of course, their natural
>prejudices come into play. They
>may not be specifically out
>to get you, but their
>prejudices tells them that you're
>not capable enough to succeed
>and make enough money to
>pay them back.

I've seen a Bank president loan money to a white busniess man he knew was in trouble.

>
>-Banks give loans to competing businesses
>all the time.


True

>
>-Lending Works Like This: They WANT
>to lend people money, after
>all it's how they make
>money, it's how the bank's
>employees get bonuses. TO not
>lend Money to qualified people
>would take money out of
>their pockets. BUT, racist/prejudiced people
>don't believe you CAN pay
>the money back, others may
>just want to screw you.
>BUT, the former is what
>happens in most cases.

If this was true,banks want to lend people money, why would Congress have to pass laws to make them?

>
>With VCs or private investors, they
>aren't going to invest in
>a Business that competes against
>a Business they've already funded/invested
>in. It wouldn't make sense
>Business Wise. You're basically going
>to lose money on one
>and make it on the
>other, better to just make
>money on the one...UNLESS the
>compete on a level that
>is actually better for both
>Businesses.

Private investors and venture capatalist are different from banks and I can understand that.

>
>
>>You can know the system left
>>and right from beginning to
>>end it still will not
>>make a difference if you
>>have a loan officer who
>>is racist, he is not
>>going to play by the
>>rules even if he is
>>aware that you know the
>>rules.
>
>If he knows you know the
>rules, he may know it
>will be harder for him
>to get away with it.
>If you complain and say:

Complain to who?

>
>
>I had a 780 credit score
>
>I make 150k/year
>I have two years worth of
>tax returns, both with enough
>income for this loan. Or
>even with enough income to
>just buy a house....
>I have a steady job &
>stable residence for the last
>year.
>I was rejected
>
>You'd have a legitamate beef and
>you could collect some damages
>and at least get the
>loan at a lower rate,
>or at the very least
>the loan you originally applied
>for. You could have less
>then the scenario I gave
>you and it's still an
>automatic approval.

You better have a lawyer and a reporter to go along with that legitmate beef.

>
>You could also go to another
>Bank....after all, there is one
>on every corner. (depending on
>where you live)
>

I recall a guy who was trying to start a business that went to more than one bank and got nowhere.

>You get delayed, not stopped.

I never suggested Blacks would be stopped.

>
>>You need more then financial strength
>>to stop people from effing
>>with you, but it does
>>help.
>
>True, you need to do other
>things to. BUT, it's the
>foundation of those efforts (IMHO)

I think changing what Blacks believe about Blacks is the foundation.

>
>>Wealth is not power? Their money
>>did not fit the outline
>>of what wealth is ?
>
>Wealth in of itself is not
>power, if I have 600
>million in the Bank and
>don't do anything with it,
>I don't really have much
>more power then my neighboor
>with 6,000. BUT, if I
>use the fact that I
>have wealth to work my
>way into circles where I
>can make connections. I buy
>5% of a public company
>and use that to get
>myself on the board of
>directors, and then use that
>to make more connections.

I think we are defining wealth different. Based on what I read wealth is not just money but resources,assets, land, things like that. Circles and connections are good until you get outside your group then you are once again at the mercy of someone else.


>
>I use my position on the
>board to meet politicians, etc,
>etc.

Yeah but who is this politican going to worry about more the guy with skin like his or the guy with a darker complexion?

>
>Money in the Bank doesn't mean
>isht unless you use it
>to your advantage. Otherwise, it's
>latent power......not power that can
>wielded.

I think wealth is more than money in the bank.

>
>>I agree with economic empowerment, I
>>just believe we can't pin
>>all our hopes and aspirations
>>on one thing.
>
>Not one thing, we can do
>hundreds of things when we
>reach the level where we're
>economically empowered. It's just fuel,
>ammo, a tool. It's not
>the end, it's the foundation
>for a start.

I think alot of changes have to be made before you get to economic empowerment therefore I do not believe it's the foundation.

>
>
>>http://www.tbwt.com/content/article.asp?articleid=597 A good link related
>>to what we are dicussing.
>
>
>Thanks
>

Welcome



"I must warn you, ma'am, that people invariably flee the room when I walk in because I'm from Levittown"

"And what a spectacular act of noblesse oblige on her part to escort the lowly Levittowner around Washington on Inauguration Day!"

"If one were sufficiently paranoid, one might easily misinterpret a decision to go get seconds on that chicken hash as a deliberate insult to the municipality of Levittown."

"Close examination of the guest list reveals many other guests with backgrounds more humble than Bill O'Reilly's. Yes, even more humble than an accountant's son from Levittown. We can only hope that they didn't take offense when O'Reilly himself departed."

I'm working-class Irish American Bill O'Reilly … pretty far down the social totem pole," he says. Growing up in the 1960s, he watched his father "exhausting himself commuting from Levittown" to work as an accountant for an oil company. Dad "never made more than $35,000"—which would be $100,000 or more in today's money