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OldPro
Member since Dec 10th 2002
34401 posts
Wed Oct-24-07 03:44 PM

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"Neo-Soul failed because the songs had no hooks"


  

          

Or I should say very poor hooks.

Black folks (and a lot of white people) want they shit to be rhythmic. A good melodic hook plays a huge part in what makes a song popular.

Whether they consciously know it or not, the public wants a hook that stays with them. Some shit they can sing along to or hum to themselves. If you look at the "neo-soul" songs that did do well, they had at least somewhat of a decent hook.

But most of the shit was just rambling lyrics over a dull beat (see Voodoo) The shit just had no life or anything to make you tap your feet or want to sing along.

The stuff they called Neo-Soul never really stood a chance

  

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Neo-Soul failed because the songs had no hooks [View all] , OldPro, Wed Oct-24-07 03:44 PM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
Damn, I didn't even see " the Great songs with no hook" post
Oct 24th 2007
1
examples?
Oct 24th 2007
2
'Tyrone', 'Bag Lady', 'Just Friends', 'Lady'
Oct 24th 2007
3
3 of those 4 have decent hooks
Oct 24th 2007
11
...so, it failed b/c the album tracks didn't have enough hooks.
Oct 24th 2007
14
      Because there weren't enough album tracks that made good singles
Oct 24th 2007
20
      hmm.
Oct 24th 2007
24
           Am I wrong?
Oct 24th 2007
26
                well, that might be a little unrealistic.
Oct 24th 2007
30
                     But I think the hook is what makes a song fun
Oct 24th 2007
32
                     a song doesn't have to be fun to be catchy
Oct 24th 2007
35
                          you misunderstand what I'm saying
Oct 25th 2007
129
                     But what were Neo-Soul's blockbuster albums?
Oct 24th 2007
33
                          acoustic soul (3mill), who is jill scott (2mill), miseducation (12 mill)
Oct 24th 2007
39
                          urban hang suite, brown sugar, aijuswannasing,
Oct 25th 2007
103
                          UHS was way before neo-soul
Oct 25th 2007
109
                               was it? n/m
Oct 25th 2007
120
                                    YES it was
Oct 25th 2007
127
                                         I don't agree...
Oct 25th 2007
135
                                              i think OP is talking about what i call 'The High Neo-Soul Era'
Oct 25th 2007
143
                                                   That's pretty good...
Oct 25th 2007
146
                                                   alright, so assume that OP is talking about 'The SoulQ era'
Oct 25th 2007
148
                                                        Yeah the SoulQuarian sound is my main beef
Oct 25th 2007
150
                                                        I can dig it ...
Oct 25th 2007
151
                                                        RE: alright, so assume that OP is talking about 'The SoulQ era'
Oct 25th 2007
152
                                                             yeah, i wanted to add them but then i decided against it
Oct 25th 2007
154
                                                                  Miseducation had a lot of hip hop influences
Oct 25th 2007
158
                                                                       You're kinda splitting hairs...
Oct 25th 2007
161
                                                                       How is it splitting hairs?
Oct 25th 2007
179
                                                                       I get it...
Oct 25th 2007
188
                                                                       i originally remember it being called nu-soul
Oct 27th 2007
291
                                                   wow
Oct 25th 2007
210
                                                        indeed... and quite an album, too!
Oct 26th 2007
255
                          RE: But what were Neo-Soul's blockbuster albums?
Oct 25th 2007
159
      alot of regular r&b fails w/or without a "hook"
Oct 25th 2007
102
& bilal's discography slaughters this whole argument
Oct 25th 2007
99
      Bilal had hooks?
Oct 25th 2007
100
      sally, all that i am, love it, when will u call, you are, 2nd child
Oct 25th 2007
105
      Go find 10 people to hum those hook
Oct 25th 2007
111
           How does that prove anything?
Oct 25th 2007
113
           This is kind of the point
Oct 25th 2007
116
           i've heard of Bilal. i've seen him live. i own his two albums.
Oct 25th 2007
117
                That's cause there aren't any
Oct 25th 2007
189
                     he had other things going for him though
Oct 26th 2007
273
                     that 'you're all i need' off the unreleased album was a great hook
Oct 26th 2007
285
                          lol @ people calling hooks they dislike "not hooks"
Jan 03rd 2008
313
                               Bilal first album was promoted well
Jan 03rd 2008
314
                                    stop lyin nigga... your post did numbers but you're wrong
Jan 03rd 2008
317
                                         How am I lyin? It's a matter of opinion
Jan 03rd 2008
319
                                              i never heard anyone say Bilal made a bad album
Jan 03rd 2008
320
                                                   I own that album negro
Jan 03rd 2008
321
                                                        what's sad is that people will respect your smart-dumb-nigga opinion
Jan 03rd 2008
322
                                                             Why you catching feelings over somene not liking Bilal?
Jan 04th 2008
328
                                                                  dont try an flip the shit... the dude has hooks, period
Jan 04th 2008
332
           hum these sweater puppies
Oct 25th 2007
138
                lol!
Oct 25th 2007
140
      RE: Bilal had hooks?
Oct 25th 2007
110
           yup... Bilal is the prime offender
Oct 25th 2007
112
      Wait, bilal's discography?
Oct 25th 2007
           RE: Wait, bilal's discography?
Oct 25th 2007
232
                First Born Second = Bilal's Greatest Hits
Oct 25th 2007
233
                     Burned Copy of First Born Second + Sixth Sense=The Bilal Anthology
Oct 26th 2007
264
                     RE: First Born Second = Bilal's Greatest Hits
Oct 26th 2007
289
A very basic, yet surprisingly unrecognized tenet of making "popular mus...
Oct 24th 2007
4
catchy hooks on Voodoo:
Oct 24th 2007
5
Voodoo sold on the strength of a good single and a shirtless D
Oct 24th 2007
8
      a record sold is a record sold.
Oct 24th 2007
12
           But when people end up unhappy with the product it hurts business
Oct 24th 2007
17
                but that's what singles are for. they're always the most marketable
Oct 24th 2007
37
                     "Spanish Grease" is that KNOCK Though
Oct 26th 2007
271
                          Wait.. are you talking bout Chicken Grease or Spanish Joint?
Nov 03rd 2007
307
                          SPANISH JOINT
Jan 02nd 2008
308
                          Spanish Grease SON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jan 03rd 2008
318
RE: Neo-Soul failed because the songs had no hooks
Oct 24th 2007
6
^^ acts like hip hop is having a creative/commercial peak right now ^^
Oct 24th 2007
7
I hear you but...
Oct 24th 2007
10
Hey dumbnuts...
Oct 24th 2007
38
      RE: Hey dumbnuts...
Oct 25th 2007
207
           RE: Hey dumbnuts...
Oct 26th 2007
276
i think it's the entire chorus, not just the hook...
Oct 24th 2007
9
In songs that are more "commercial" they are one and the same
Oct 24th 2007
15
      Yep
Oct 24th 2007
18
Another big part of it was the lack of fun
Oct 24th 2007
13
or mix in fun songs w/the 'deep'.
Oct 24th 2007
25
      Damn, he really said that?
Oct 24th 2007
27
      a couple of yrs ago over in OkayArtist.
Oct 24th 2007
29
      jeez. if u dont want to "study" that then DON'T! nobody forcing u!
Oct 24th 2007
42
      the artists are the ones who overanalyzed, not us.
Oct 24th 2007
43
      eureka
Oct 26th 2007
263
      RE: or mix in fun songs w/the 'deep'.
Oct 25th 2007
115
Um, sure.
Oct 24th 2007
16
another thing that didn't help: names like 'Musiq Soulchild'
Oct 24th 2007
19
don't even get me started!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oct 25th 2007
180
yep... a lot of it was leaden, monotonous, self-serious and dreary.
Oct 24th 2007
21
there were some gems though
Oct 24th 2007
22
Post #13
Oct 24th 2007
23
you take yourself waaay too seriously.
Oct 24th 2007
41
A chore to listen to lol?
Oct 24th 2007
45
i guess you were the ideal audience they were aiming for!
Oct 24th 2007
46
RE: A chore to listen to lol?
Oct 25th 2007
211
basically^^^
Oct 25th 2007
76
^^
Oct 25th 2007
101
the painful life of the hipster, listening to albums as a 'duty'
Oct 26th 2007
286
Sleepy time music for Sleepy Heads
Oct 24th 2007
28
Maybe it's because
Oct 24th 2007
31
In a way it reminds me of the indie rock scene today
Oct 24th 2007
34
yep and yep.
Oct 24th 2007
40
First of all.....NEO SOUL NEVER FAILED
Oct 24th 2007
36
that's what I was thinking, failed? + 'sleepy/boring'
Oct 25th 2007
66
I missed this last night; good point
Oct 25th 2007
79
      ragtime influenced the spectrum of American popular music
Oct 25th 2007
80
           RE: ragtime influenced the spectrum of American popular music
Oct 25th 2007
90
                well...
Oct 25th 2007
145
"Neo-Soul"
Oct 24th 2007
44
Gotta disagree with ya bruh....
Oct 24th 2007
47
R.Kelly>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Neo soul
Oct 24th 2007
49
RE: R.Kelly>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Neo soul
Oct 24th 2007
56
wasnt in em
Oct 24th 2007
59
Damn, you're really going to make me defend R
Oct 24th 2007
61
      step in the name of love>>>a lot of neo soul songs
Oct 26th 2007
274
RE: R.Kelly>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Neo soul
Oct 24th 2007
63
      when a woman feds up???lmao
Oct 25th 2007
68
           You didn't like that song??!
Oct 25th 2007
121
           RE: when a woman feds up???lmao
Oct 25th 2007
195
           u OVVVIOUSLY aint heard that song
Oct 25th 2007
212
I will never put lip syncers over people who
Oct 25th 2007
69
      R.Kelly has done national anthems without Music
Oct 25th 2007
227
           um, most people do the national anthem a capella
Oct 25th 2007
236
           shut the Hell up dude, damn
Oct 25th 2007
238
                I can't think of the last time I've even discussed RKelly here
Oct 26th 2007
266
                     you are a bum and off as usual
Oct 26th 2007
278
                          your dedication to continuing to yap while not saying shit is impressive
Oct 26th 2007
                          you are a Bum
Oct 26th 2007
280
                               I could give a fuck what you think about me, you one-trick pony bitch
Oct 26th 2007
283
                                    RE: I you lost chumpy bitch
Oct 26th 2007
284
                                         blahblahblah, ur shit's more tired than the Trapped In The Closet series
Oct 26th 2007
290
                          your dedication to continuing to yap while not saying shit is impressive
Oct 26th 2007
279
           wilbourn?
Oct 27th 2007
292
Very well-put.
Oct 24th 2007
50
thank you
Oct 24th 2007
53
      Everyone knows what we're talking about when you use that term
Oct 24th 2007
60
it failed because it was mainly soulless
Oct 24th 2007
48
RE: it failed because it was mainly soulless
Oct 25th 2007
73
RE: it failed because it was mainly soulless
Jan 03rd 2008
309
They never changed the damn tempo
Oct 24th 2007
51
RE: They never changed the damn tempo
Oct 24th 2007
54
^ BEST POINT IN HERE. tempo AND the instrumentation.
Oct 25th 2007
78
blame jaydee
Oct 25th 2007
191
      ^blassfeemer
Oct 25th 2007
200
      i'm a blasfemale
Oct 25th 2007
202
      i KNEW it was coming.
Oct 26th 2007
269
it failed b/c the industry wanted it to fell
Oct 24th 2007
52
Please
Oct 24th 2007
55
bullshit
Oct 24th 2007
57
      Why the hell would record companies not want to sell records?
Oct 24th 2007
62
           exactly... if the record companies made them change anything
Oct 25th 2007
74
industgry put alot of money in them
Oct 24th 2007
64
      i think i actually prefer the way you spelled Remy's name.
Oct 25th 2007
82
           And Remy Shand had one of the better albums of the genre
Oct 25th 2007
114
                yeah, i don't understand why he got so much clownage.
Oct 25th 2007
119
                HE WHITE! (c) Bizarro Bags
Oct 25th 2007
124
                That was a big part of the hate
Oct 25th 2007
134
                     having Kedder mausenburg cheesing in the video hurt him as well
Oct 25th 2007
228
                          Good point
Oct 25th 2007
230
                I was just salty because people said he looked like me
Oct 25th 2007
139
                LOL.
Oct 25th 2007
155
                ^^^^snorting lines
Oct 25th 2007
193
                REMY SHAND WAS/IS/GONNA BE WACK!!!!!!!!!!
Oct 25th 2007
192
                     gun to your head, fire: Joss Stone or Remy Shand?
Oct 25th 2007
239
                          joss, cuz she can sing AND
Oct 26th 2007
251
I think it sounded too ''adult'' and sleepy...
Oct 24th 2007
58
Dentists could rip a whole gtip of teeth with that tired music
Oct 24th 2007
65
lol.... Kids listened too...
Oct 25th 2007
70
      When has kids listened to music that slow , sleepy and ''mature''?
Oct 25th 2007
71
      didn't notice this before...lol
Jan 04th 2008
326
      here's the problem neo-soul had:
Oct 25th 2007
75
           the less is more concept:
Oct 25th 2007
83
           yeah... eff that: MORE is more!
Oct 25th 2007
86
                And that minimalism made it soooo boring
Oct 25th 2007
118
                I agree 100%, I think that happened out of habit....
Oct 25th 2007
131
           yup
Oct 25th 2007
88
                the thing about Soulquarian's neo-soul
Oct 25th 2007
89
                sad but true.
Oct 25th 2007
92
                LOL
Oct 25th 2007
94
                Why do people keep denying this?
Oct 25th 2007
122
                     they only know how their friends/immediate circle felt about it.
Oct 25th 2007
125
                     Although I love Voodoo, this is true.
Oct 25th 2007
130
                ^should be end of discussion^
Jan 03rd 2008
311
                     uh... Voodoo wasn't that complex harmonically OR melodically.
Jan 03rd 2008
312
                          Prince is at his best when he keeps it simple
Jan 03rd 2008
315
                          yep. total cosign.
Jan 03rd 2008
316
                          RE: uh... my post doesn't say Voodoo.
Jan 04th 2008
324
                               i know. i deliberately cited Voodoo
Jan 04th 2008
325
                co-sign
Oct 26th 2007
277
Another thing that annoyed me were the female artists in particular...
Oct 25th 2007
67
all in all it was just a bit rigid in how it defined itself
Oct 25th 2007
72
thats weak
Oct 25th 2007
160
RE: all in all it was just a bit rigid in how it defined itself
Oct 25th 2007
163
India.Arie in particular has always been completely narcissitic.
Oct 25th 2007
77
strong soul brother, dap til you hand hurt cosign.
Oct 25th 2007
84
      for the record, i thought she was pretty sexy, though.
Oct 25th 2007
87
           for the record, i didn't.
Oct 25th 2007
91
           yeah, the shock caused my heart to stop beating for a second!
Oct 25th 2007
93
           LOL @ that
Oct 25th 2007
133
           lol
Oct 25th 2007
95
           She was hot...
Oct 25th 2007
157
                Yeah, I always found that wierd too.
Oct 25th 2007
165
^^^^^the lesson hates women part 5000
Oct 25th 2007
205
RE: Another thing that annoyed me were the female artists in particular....
Oct 26th 2007
272
that was a trend in actual soul too, though
Oct 26th 2007
287
and we change history again...
Oct 25th 2007
81
thanks for observing that i remained more or less consistent.
Oct 25th 2007
85
I wonder how different this convo would be if D'Angelo stayed on top
Oct 25th 2007
96
i think he could have kept it afloat.
Oct 25th 2007
97
Musiq rawks tho.
Oct 25th 2007
107
i know... he does.
Oct 25th 2007
108
Yep, all the pioneers faded to black as quickly as they came....
Oct 25th 2007
126
say it to my face!
Oct 25th 2007
199
D'Angelo would have needed to flip it big time
Oct 25th 2007
137
That's fair
Oct 25th 2007
132
Mama's Gun is the best neo soul album of them all IMO.
Oct 25th 2007
128
I feel like Al Gore on Iraq
Oct 25th 2007
147
totally agree n/m
Oct 25th 2007
153
yup, i changed my mind.
Oct 25th 2007
216
nah, you can change your mind
Oct 26th 2007
246
      ...b/c they changed their minds.
Oct 26th 2007
248
           unfortunately, I am that cynical
Oct 26th 2007
259
                those observations are useless
Oct 26th 2007
267
Mama's Gun went platinum...
Oct 26th 2007
288
we also seem to forget...
Jan 04th 2008
323
there is no such thing as neo soul
Oct 25th 2007
98
What would you call it then? Cuz it wasn't Soul.
Oct 25th 2007
144
      That's neo-soul fans' favorite tactic
Oct 25th 2007
149
      not exactly...
Oct 25th 2007
169
      kedar didn't know wtf he was talking about/doing
Oct 25th 2007
203
      soul was never old IMO, therefore there was no "neo" to be had
Oct 25th 2007
201
I guess it's cool to hate on Neo-Soul now
Oct 25th 2007
104
This is not the shit we're talking about
Oct 25th 2007
141
with this lowest common denominator stuff out there it gets cooler
Oct 25th 2007
156
co-sign
Oct 25th 2007
166
and i'm gone. out. kapush.
Oct 25th 2007
171
yea... beause neo-soul was soooooooooooo smart!
Oct 25th 2007
172
even if it wasn't smart it sounded WAY BETTER than the crap
Oct 25th 2007
206
      no that shyt was boring as shit
Oct 26th 2007
252
           martin luther's wack tho
Oct 26th 2007
253
                the bottom line is that after the 1st wave of "N.S"
Oct 26th 2007
254
LOL that's not what Orf and Old Pro are saying though..
Oct 25th 2007
197
who has said any of that?
Oct 25th 2007
218
People just have to make this about picking sides
Oct 25th 2007
226
RE: with this lowest common denominator stuff out there it gets cooler
Oct 25th 2007
222
RE: with this lowest common denominator stuff out there it gets cooler
Oct 25th 2007
223
RE: with this lowest common denominator stuff out there it gets cooler
Oct 29th 2007
298
they can't do it
Oct 25th 2007
204
      Again, I'm not even talking about 4 of those albums but
Oct 25th 2007
215
           RE: Again, I'm not even talking about 4 of those albums but
Oct 25th 2007
229
           homosexuals?
Oct 25th 2007
231
           wow.
Oct 25th 2007
237
                What's funny is how mad these cats get
Oct 25th 2007
243
                     i know a lot of people who didn't like neo-soul told me
Oct 25th 2007
244
                          that's their own inferiority complex, and has nothing to do with music
Oct 26th 2007
281
           RE: Again, I'm not even talking about 4 of those albums but
Oct 25th 2007
234
           that list contradicts your point, making you look stupid n/m
Oct 27th 2007
294
I don't think the lack of hooks...
Oct 25th 2007
106
hmmm
Oct 25th 2007
170
      Funny you mention NOW...
Oct 25th 2007
178
           No disc with Lifetime and Changed can suck
Oct 25th 2007
182
                Different strokes...
Oct 25th 2007
186
                     Maxwell has always stood outside that neo-soul label
Oct 25th 2007
196
                          That's debateable...
Oct 25th 2007
214
                               Maxwell got played in clubs
Oct 25th 2007
219
                                    Getting played in the clubs is indicative of what though?
Oct 25th 2007
235
                                         Well yeahI do think it was better quality music
Oct 25th 2007
240
                                              accessibility
Oct 26th 2007
250
                                                   I have a few counter points but I'm tired of this discussion lol
Oct 26th 2007
257
                                                        calm down, man
Oct 26th 2007
262
                                                             Well I'm going to have to reply now
Oct 26th 2007
265
its 'leaders' weren't prolific, that's all The Doc can say
Oct 25th 2007
123
I'm not even halfway interested in Jill's new album...
Oct 25th 2007
136
'Hate on Me' was exactly what The Doc was talking about
Oct 25th 2007
177
^^^^^a man after my own heart
Oct 25th 2007
208
      The Doc is a believer now...
Oct 26th 2007
247
Like a lot of musics, I believe it was also far better live
Oct 25th 2007
142
way better live, especially D'angelo and the band.
Oct 25th 2007
168
RE: Neo-Soul failed because the songs had no hooks
Oct 25th 2007
162
This speaks to another big part of it's failure
Oct 25th 2007
164
      so is something wrong
Oct 25th 2007
167
           Find one place in this post I attacked people for liking it
Oct 25th 2007
175
                Find one place in this post where I said you
Oct 25th 2007
176
                     Well it sounded like that's what you were inferring
Oct 25th 2007
184
I Just Came In Here To Say Fuck This Thread & Old Pro Hoe!
Oct 25th 2007
173
along the lines of the label being "neo-soul"
Oct 25th 2007
174
Labeling the music as neo soul was bad for the music
Oct 25th 2007
181
It's the music that people didn't like not the label
Oct 25th 2007
185
RE: It's the music that people didn't like not the label
Oct 25th 2007
190
MTV started out showing videos too
Oct 25th 2007
194
how can you say that
Oct 25th 2007
198
      Is the EP ''Worldwide Underground''?
Oct 25th 2007
209
      There's been good R&B post Voodoo
Oct 25th 2007
213
           craig david's album
Oct 27th 2007
296
labels dont mean anything. snap/hyphy/crunk didnt hurt anyone.
Oct 25th 2007
242
Neo-Soul failed because you can't dance to that shit. Boom! Post over.
Oct 25th 2007
183
Fool, you can't call "post over" like that.
Oct 25th 2007
187
NEO SOUL DOES NOT EXIST!
Oct 25th 2007
217
Actually it's not
Oct 25th 2007
220
      RE: Actually it's not
Oct 25th 2007
221
           *checks your post count*
Oct 25th 2007
224
since when was Voodoo wack
Oct 25th 2007
225
the reason they didnt make catchy songs was cos they were
Oct 25th 2007
241
You summed it all up here
Oct 25th 2007
245
RE: You summed it all up here
Oct 26th 2007
258
      Did you miss this part?
Oct 26th 2007
261
which explains why Kells is still on top
Oct 26th 2007
270
      he does make a lot of crap though
Oct 26th 2007
275
           true, but you remeber the hooks
Oct 27th 2007
293
Does anybody have examples
Oct 26th 2007
249
i remember a vibe feature where one of jagged edge mocked
Oct 26th 2007
256
they're lying n/m
Nov 01st 2007
304
*still listening to Dreaming Eyes of Mine (Jay Dee Remix)*
Oct 26th 2007
260
this post is just the same people replying back & forth (^^ pun intented...
Oct 26th 2007
268
tell that to Sade...
Oct 26th 2007
282
Sade is neo-soul?
Oct 27th 2007
295
RE: Neo-Soul failed because the songs had no hooks
Oct 29th 2007
297
the term 'neosoul' is relevent for more than marketing reasons
Jan 03rd 2008
310
I know this is gonna sound like blasphemy on OKP........
Oct 29th 2007
299
Since everyone wants to call Maxwell neo-soul
Oct 29th 2007
300
RE: I know this is gonna sound like blasphemy on OKP........
Nov 01st 2007
303
RE: Neo-Soul failed because the songs had no hooks
Nov 01st 2007
301
I Thought Neo-Soul Waz Consciouz Jazzy-R&B With Hip-Hop Drum Kitz
Nov 01st 2007
302
RE: Neo-Soul failed because the songs had no hooks
Nov 03rd 2007
305
All modern R&B sounds like 'neosoul' on stage to me
Nov 03rd 2007
306
some of the artists most associated with Neo-Soul
Jan 04th 2008
327
      Ne-Yo writes better songs that 95% of the so-called neo-soul artists
Jan 04th 2008
329
           I must have missed those songs man...lol.
Jan 04th 2008
331
           i wish he did because he is like a Constipated babyface to me
Jan 04th 2008
333
RE: Neo-Soul failed because the songs had no hooks
Jan 04th 2008
330

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