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Forum nameOkay Sports
Topic subjectNBA MVP?
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2762351
2762351, NBA MVP?
Posted by ThaTruth, Wed Dec-31-69 07:00 PM

Poll question: NBA MVP?

Poll result (25 votes)
Embiid (10 votes)Vote
Giannis (6 votes)Vote
Jokic (9 votes)Vote
Luka (0 votes)Vote
Booker (0 votes)Vote
somebody else? post it below... (0 votes)Vote

  

2762731, when you consider how much better Embiid is defensive it should be close
Posted by ThaTruth, Fri Apr-15-22 08:13 AM
2762756, "defensively it shouldn't be close*
Posted by ThaTruth, Fri Apr-15-22 01:01 PM
2762857, did you consider how much better Kawhi is on defense than Russ in 2017?
Posted by 40thStreetBlack, Sat Apr-16-22 01:36 PM
2762877, ??
Posted by ThaTruth, Sat Apr-16-22 04:21 PM
2762882, it's rather self-explanatory.
Posted by 40thStreetBlack, Sat Apr-16-22 04:56 PM
2762749, 1. Jokic. 2. Giannis. 3. Embiid.
Posted by Frank Longo, Fri Apr-15-22 11:53 AM
And there's no one else really in the conversation imo.

That said, I'll be interested to see how high Tatum finishes in the voting. Probably 6th, realistically, but he could sneak into that top 5.
2762800, Giannis and Joker both went into Wells Fargo and kicked Embids ass ….
Posted by guru0509, Fri Apr-15-22 04:57 PM
Bones Hyland was hitting Steph Curry 3s while up 20

It was ugly

I feel like he was beginning to lose the race shortly after that which is why he started campaigning/ crying so openly which didn’t do him any favors endearing himself to the voters


>And there's no one else really in the conversation imo.
>
>That said, I'll be interested to see how high Tatum finishes
>in the voting. Probably 6th, realistically, but he could sneak
>into that top 5.
2762761, For anyone here who did FanDuel lineups thru season..
Posted by RagOnMe, Fri Apr-15-22 01:17 PM
Jokic was the chalkiest of chalk in your lineup. He's basically the bingo free square (always, always, *always* giving you 60-75 FD pts, literally every single night).
2762762, MVP is not just based on fantasy stats.
Posted by ThaTruth, Fri Apr-15-22 01:33 PM
>Jokic was the chalkiest of chalk in your lineup. He's
>basically the bingo free square (always, always, *always*
>giving you 60-75 FD pts, literally every single night).
2762768, lol
Posted by RagOnMe, Fri Apr-15-22 01:52 PM
It's a tally of:

"pts/rebounds/assists" (offensive end)
"blocks/steals" (defensive end)

And then subtract for each turnover.. what grand MVP category is missing? (and before you say win-loss record, name me the player on a losing team averaging 60-75 FD pts)
2762770, RE: lol
Posted by ThaTruth, Fri Apr-15-22 02:02 PM
>It's a tally of:
>
>"pts/rebounds/assists" (offensive end)
>"blocks/steals" (defensive end)
>
>And then subtract for each turnover.. what grand MVP category
>is missing? (and before you say win-loss record, name me the
>player on a losing team averaging 60-75 FD pts)

https://www.rif.org
2762774, RE: lol
Posted by RagOnMe, Fri Apr-15-22 02:20 PM
Awesome get your jokes off..my original point remains he was such an anomaly fantasy-wise that of course he’s also a top mvp candidate (or the winner, in my opinion)
2762771, Jokic is easily the most efficient offensive weapon in the NBA.
Posted by Frank Longo, Fri Apr-15-22 02:04 PM
And he played the best defense of his career this year-- he actually led the NBA in defensive plus-minus! And he leads the NBA in win shares! And Value Over Replacement Player! He is, by basically every metric, the Most Valuable Player in the NBA, lol. And when you watch him play, the eye test matches-- it's *bonkers* watching him play like an old dude at the YMCA and just rip the best post defenders in the world to shreds.

It's insane to think he had an MVP season where he had one of the best offensive seasons in modern NBA history... and then got *better this year* on both ends of the floor.
2762775, unfortunately there two sides of the court...
Posted by ThaTruth, Fri Apr-15-22 02:31 PM
>And he played the best defense of his career this year

"best defense of his career" is still average at best among NBA centers, that "eye test" doesn't lie either lol

2762777, Jokic has a better +/- this year player
Posted by RagOnMe, Fri Apr-15-22 02:45 PM
It’s not stats + funnier twitter account
2762781, post #5. n/m
Posted by ThaTruth, Fri Apr-15-22 02:59 PM
2762785, So youre saying theres no chance he should or will win it?
Posted by ShawndmeSlanted, Fri Apr-15-22 03:04 PM
2762794, Clearly Jokic won't win, as MVP isn't based on fantasy stats.
Posted by Frank Longo, Fri Apr-15-22 03:29 PM
If Jokic wins, then MVP is based on fantasy stats like win shares, +/-, VORP, points, rebounds, and assists, and then where would the integrity of the MVP award be??
2762786, My bad
Posted by RagOnMe, Fri Apr-15-22 03:14 PM
Just saw (lol) your original posts 1&3 (sometimes I dive into these things starting a sub-thread/ignoring the "prologue")--thought you were like "Joel by a landslide! rargh!!"

Trust the process.. \m/
2762788, "Charter member" with less than 1000 posts? I smell an alias lol
Posted by ThaTruth, Fri Apr-15-22 03:19 PM
2762793, Ha, just a fair-obsessed lurker..
Posted by RagOnMe, Fri Apr-15-22 03:27 PM
that followed enough nba this season to feel empowered to occasionally comment now.
2762797, okayplayer. n/m
Posted by ThaTruth, Fri Apr-15-22 03:37 PM
2762859, that doesn't make any sense.
Posted by 40thStreetBlack, Sat Apr-16-22 01:45 PM
2762878, you forgot to switch logins?
Posted by ThaTruth, Sat Apr-16-22 04:22 PM
2762792, Ah yes, all my fantasy leagues use +/-.
Posted by Frank Longo, Fri Apr-15-22 03:27 PM
lol

Jokic is of course an above-average NBA center on defense now, both by stats (where he's very very good) and the eye test (where he's merely rather good), but something tells me anyone dismissing Jokic's league-leading defensive +/- as "fantasy stats" isn't interested in investigating Jokic's much-improved defensive efficacy.
2762795, Post #5 n/m
Posted by RagOnMe, Fri Apr-15-22 03:29 PM
lulz
2762819, lol
Posted by Frank Longo, Fri Apr-15-22 08:32 PM
2762798, at the end of the day its all opinion, I don't have a vote...
Posted by ThaTruth, Fri Apr-15-22 03:41 PM
>lol
>
>Jokic is of course an above-average NBA center on defense now,
>both by stats (where he's very very good) and the eye test
>(where he's merely rather good), but something tells me anyone
>dismissing Jokic's league-leading defensive +/- as "fantasy
>stats" isn't interested in investigating Jokic's much-improved
>defensive efficacy.


it will be fun seeing Wiggins and GPII dunk on Jokic as he gets swept out of the first round trophy and all
2762853, The only stat he’s capable of comprehending is “triple double”
Posted by guru0509, Sat Apr-16-22 08:40 AM
It’s like expecting a 2nd grader to know trigonometry, he just isn’t ready for all that


>lol
>
>Jokic is of course an above-average NBA center on defense now,
>both by stats (where he's very very good) and the eye test
>(where he's merely rather good), but something tells me anyone
>dismissing Jokic's league-leading defensive +/- as "fantasy
>stats" isn't interested in investigating Jokic's much-improved
>defensive efficacy.
2762854, plus/minus is easily the worst stat in basketball lol
Posted by ThaTruth, Sat Apr-16-22 10:50 AM
2763063, Joker getting exposed = MVP, LOL
Posted by bentagain, Tue Apr-19-22 09:19 AM
2763070, Yeah and the media seems to be grading him on a curve
Posted by Ill Jux, Tue Apr-19-22 09:43 AM
And it seems like the media types are excusing him being blown out in two straight playoff games while getting ejected from games, smh. They talked about cp3, t mac, and other for players not winning playoff games. I heard people on espn saying he doesn't have jamal maurry or porter but they weren't there the whole season, wtf. lol
2763071, You have to look at his “advanced stats”!
Posted by ThaTruth, Tue Apr-19-22 10:09 AM
2764984, LOL, yeah
Posted by Ill Jux, Tue May-10-22 10:21 PM
.
2763073, Joker and Giannis went into Philly and smacked the Sixers around tho
Posted by guru0509, Tue Apr-19-22 10:15 AM
Not a good look
2763074, We beat both MIL and DEN on the road…deflect much…?
Posted by bentagain, Tue Apr-19-22 10:33 AM
LOL@smacked around…you doing too much
The MIL W was one of our best games
Road W w/o Harden

Not sure what that has to do with Joker getting smacked around in the playoffs…?
LOL@a 2pt W that EMVPiid outplayed him in = smacked around

FOH.
2763076, Brooklyn smacked yall around too
Posted by guru0509, Tue Apr-19-22 11:06 AM
>LOL@smacked around…you doing too much
>The MIL W was one of our best games
>Road W w/o Harden
>
>Not sure what that has to do with Joker getting smacked around
>in the playoffs…?
>LOL@a 2pt W that EMVPiid outplayed him in = smacked around
>
>FOH.

Denver controlled that whole game . You had no answer for Joker or Bones Hyland


Mvp isn't a playoff award. The voted are already in.

Lol at bragging about no Harden

Jokic missing help too

I bet Embiid to win it but the voters got it right , again
2763078, -26
Posted by bentagain, Tue Apr-19-22 11:15 AM
0-2
You Mad.

Nationally televised games back to back
We’re all seeing it with our own eyes…
2763081, lol smacked around is a bit of hyperbole, fair enough ...nm
Posted by guru0509, Tue Apr-19-22 11:47 AM
>LOL@smacked around…you doing too much
>The MIL W was one of our best games
>Road W w/o Harden
>
>Not sure what that has to do with Joker getting smacked around
>in the playoffs…?
>LOL@a 2pt W that EMVPiid outplayed him in = smacked around
>
>FOH.
2763080, that's just a bold-faced LIE, Jokic played Embiid once this season...
Posted by ThaTruth, Tue Apr-19-22 11:30 AM
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202203140PHI.html

Denver won by 4, Jokic had 22&13 and Embiid had 34&9 so I'm not sure what you mean by "smacked around" lol...
2763082, ^^^ not sure how anyone can defend this
Posted by Stadiq, Tue Apr-19-22 12:02 PM

First of all, they are the 6th seed? Several games above .500...didn't even win 50 games? When did that stop mattering? Did Westbrook start it?

It used to be dudes who put up numbers on subpar teams- even if there were injuries, etc- would get all-nba love but no serious MVP talk and definitely not the award itself.


And his squad is about to flame out in the playoffs...again...while he can't handle it.

I mean we all know WHY he is graded on a curve, but I'm surprised to see so many dudes defending it here.


He should not have been the MVP this year.


2763083, its like when Nash won his team was good but he wasn't statistically...
Posted by ThaTruth, Tue Apr-19-22 12:15 PM
dominant, the next year he had better stats so they felt like they had to give it to him again
2763084, It’s a tough year though, there’s only one dominant team
Posted by pretentious username, Tue Apr-19-22 12:47 PM
And Booker and CP3 kinda cancel each other out/aren’t statistically dominant enough to give the award to. Next up is the Grizzlies, but they were awesome with Ja out. Then there’s the Warriors, where everyone was injured and they were super cold at the end.

So that’s how it came down to Joker, Embiid, and Giannis. I get that it’s not usually given to someone on a 48 win team, but the Bucks and Sixers were only 3 wins better. I thought it would go to Embiid, but it’s tough to justify any one of those just going off of record.

Edit: also, I really don’t get why there are hot takes when an MVP or his team performs poorly in the playoffs. It happens every few years. I mean criticize his/the team’s performance all you want, that’s fair game, but to use that to say someone didn’t deserve a regular season award makes absolutely no sense. He could put up goose eggs every playoff game and it doesn’t matter in regards to the MVP discussion.
2763091, Forget it, Jake. It's Agenda-Town.
Posted by Frank Longo, Tue Apr-19-22 02:44 PM

>Edit: also, I really don’t get why there are hot takes when
>an MVP or his team performs poorly in the playoffs. It happens
>every few years. I mean criticize his/the team’s performance
>all you want, that’s fair game, but to use that to say
>someone didn’t deserve a regular season award makes
>absolutely no sense. He could put up goose eggs every playoff
>game and it doesn’t matter in regards to the MVP
>discussion.

It's obviously a regular season award, everyone knows that. They just want to conveniently ignore it when it doesn't match an agenda.

Jokic put up one of the most efficient offensive seasons in modern NBA history, he played significantly improved defense, and his second best player was *Will Barton*.... AND THEY WON THREE FEWER GAMES THAN PHILLY OR MILWAUKEE. lol

Anyone who doesn't see the pro-Jokic argument is being silly. If you think Giannis deserved it more because he's only one of the five best defenders in the league, I think that's a reasonable argument. But that doesn't mean Jokic's argument isn't also insanely legit, nor does a terrible matchup against the Warriors cancel out what he did during the period in which one earns an MVP award, lol.
2763097, people made a big deal when Hakeem sonned Robinson in 95 after...
Posted by ThaTruth, Tue Apr-19-22 02:52 PM
Robinson won MVP, or in 07 when Dirk lost in the 1st round to the "we believe" Warriors
2763103, Oh, don't get me wrong, I get why people are poking fun at Jokic.
Posted by Frank Longo, Tue Apr-19-22 03:20 PM
When you're the MVP, you're expected to deliver. And people who would've preferred a different MVP will poke fun. I dig it.

It's when people start to suggest that someone shouldn't have been the MVP based on the player's playoff performance that things go off the rails, lol.
2763189, cmon man
Posted by Stadiq, Wed Apr-20-22 12:59 PM

Yeah this entire place is agenda-town, but I think its okay to point out Denver's record/standing.

I think at least 50 wins is a reasonable floor. Top 3 in conference.


There HAS to be some type of floor or the award just becomes "most impressive"


And an MVP flaming out in the playoffs is not strictly agenda 'driven...it always gets the side-eye when it happens.

And pointing out the double standard for a great white hope is absolutely fair game.


I just dont think a guy on a 47 win, 6th seed team is the MVP no matter what the numbers are. No matter what the pro- Jokic agenda is.

I also chuckle when advanced stats are used...those can absolutely be skewed/inaccurate and at the very least don't tell the whole story.


Him flaming out in the first round just adds to my argument. Of course it is a regular season award, but the award comes with expectations. Those expectations should be the same for a great white hope. MVP going on early vaca is not a good look.



At the very absolute least, in a close race, the team's record should be considered. Not to mention there isn't a GM on this earth that would take Jokic over Giannis...which should be another tie breaker.



2763092, RE: It happens every few years
Posted by bentagain, Tue Apr-19-22 02:45 PM
Name names
MVP with the worst +/- of any player
Getting iso’d, ejected and on the brink of being swept in the 1st round
….GO
2763098, that's the thing, I feel like Jokic gets a pass for being a sore loser...
Posted by ThaTruth, Tue Apr-19-22 02:56 PM
>Name names
>MVP with the worst +/- of any player
>Getting iso’d, ejected and on the brink of being swept in
>the 1st round
>….GO

from the media, if Embiid or Giannis acted like he did the media would be all over them talking about "poor sportsmanship" but with Jokic it just gets called "emotion"
2763112, …and people aren’t watching the games…
Posted by bentagain, Tue Apr-19-22 04:09 PM
Highlights
Boxscores
and ESPN hot takes
= MVP.

Joker is a great player
Tremendous game
But better than Embiid…this year…FOH

Now that people are watching them play, back to back
Looks a little different, don’t it
2763148, What does that have to do with anything I said?
Posted by pretentious username, Wed Apr-20-22 02:21 AM
>Name names
>MVP with the worst +/- of any player
>Getting iso’d, ejected and on the brink of being swept in
>the 1st round
>….GO

“I mean criticize his/the team’s performance all you want, that’s fair game, but to use that to say someone didn’t deserve a regular season award makes absolutely no sense. He could put up goose eggs every playoff game and it doesn’t matter in regards to the MVP discussion.”

Everything you just said is fair… and has nothing to do with a regular season award.
2763168, Dirk in 07
Posted by bentagain, Wed Apr-20-22 10:25 AM
Is the closest comp to an MVP getting bodied in the 1st round

You said this happens every few years
I asked for examples
I’m giving you Dirk in 07
Any other examples you can think of?
2763248, I didn’t say getting bodied, I meant losing early/not looking like the MVP
Posted by pretentious username, Wed Apr-20-22 05:55 PM

>Any other examples you can think of?
>

I was thinking of Dirk and Russ specifically. We’re also 2 games into the series and those were both in the road, so maybe, just MAYBE… this is an overreaction??? Would it really be a surprise if Joker turns it around and at least makes this a series?

Regardless of all of that, it’s a regular season award. You wanna relitigate it using games that literally are excluded from consideration, knock yourself out. But I think that’s useless.
2763319, …because that’s what an MVP would do…right?
Posted by bentagain, Thu Apr-21-22 07:34 AM
You’re contradicting the premise of your own position
I’m not debating what the award is based on
I’m debating that Joker is more deserving of the award based on the criteria for judgement
In one instance you take the stance that it doesn’t matter that he’s putting up a historically bad playoff performance for an MVP (if he wins it)
Then you’re expecting him to perform to a certain standard in the playoffs…?
I said bodied
Dirk in 07 won a couple of games
Russ in 17 managed to not get swept
Joker gets swept…that’s something we haven’t seen before
You said this happens every few years…but we’ve only managed to come up with 2 examples…?
AND
If you recall…both Dirk’s and Russ’s MVPs were debated
Most thought Kobe should have won in 07
and a lot of people didn’t think Russ deserved the award being that it was based on his statistical accomplishment, while still being WestBrick (kind of ironic…don’t cha think (c))

IMO, people weren’t watching the games
They were listening to hot takes, reading boxscores and creating mathematical equations based on analytics

The reason it’s a bigger issue in the playoffs is we are actually watching them play back to back
It’s as plain as day, Joker is not the MVP
Embiid is…if you actually watch basketball games.
2763321, Lmao, I’m not reading all that
Posted by pretentious username, Thu Apr-21-22 08:15 AM
It’s a regular season award. Using playoff stats to shit on an MVP is fair. Using playoff stats to say they didn’t deserve the MVP makes no sense. Have a good day.
2763516, It's still basketball
Posted by bentagain, Sat Apr-23-22 07:16 AM
2763085, i mean, clearly it's Steph.
Posted by PROMO, Tue Apr-19-22 12:56 PM
and i'm not saying that cuz of last night.

i said that 3 weeks ago. but because he missed some games and Phoenix has the best record, he can't win because those are the "rules."
2763089, statistically this is one his worst seasons by HIS standards
Posted by ThaTruth, Tue Apr-19-22 02:11 PM
2763099, and yet he's still the MOST VALUABLE.
Posted by PROMO, Tue Apr-19-22 03:00 PM
ya know, if you actually use the words MOST VALUABLE to define the award.

*shrug*
2763101, that's even more of an argument for Jokic. Their 2nd best player is who?
Posted by Cenario, Tue Apr-19-22 03:14 PM
Aaron Gordon?

That is arguably the worst roster in the league without Joker, Murray and Porter
2763104, Probably Will Barton, lmao.
Posted by Frank Longo, Tue Apr-19-22 03:21 PM
It's truly insane.
2763107, that's where people get it confused, it's "MOST VALUABLE" to the LEAGUE...
Posted by ThaTruth, Tue Apr-19-22 03:24 PM
not to your team.

That could add to Embiid's argument also because nobody expected Philly to be that good with Simmons sitting out
2763108, right. Steph *IS* MOST VALUABLE to the LEAGUE.
Posted by PROMO, Tue Apr-19-22 03:34 PM
in more ways than on court performance if you wanna go there as well.
2763116, no he's not lol...
Posted by ThaTruth, Tue Apr-19-22 05:02 PM
>in more ways than on court performance if you wanna go there
>as well.

when Draymond wasn't there his team wasn't that good, Steph is a great player in a great system, Embiid, Giannis and Jokic would be great on any team, you take Steph off the Warriors and he's a rich man's Dame Lillard
2763119, steph is a system player? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.
Posted by PROMO, Tue Apr-19-22 05:31 PM
whooo boy i've fucking heard it all.

2763122, I said he’s a great player in a great system and he is. Michael Jordan…
Posted by ThaTruth, Tue Apr-19-22 05:57 PM
was a great player in a great system.
2763154, i can't tell if you're are agreeing or disagreeing with yourself here
Posted by Cenario, Wed Apr-20-22 09:01 AM
>Steph is a great player in a great system, Embiid, Giannis and Jokic would be great on any team

so they are all great?
2763177, Also “rich man’s Dame Lillard” sounds like an MVP
Posted by pretentious username, Wed Apr-20-22 10:57 AM
>>Steph is a great player in a great system, Embiid, Giannis
>and Jokic would be great on any team
>
>so they are all great?

Lmao
2763178, lol right.
Posted by Cenario, Wed Apr-20-22 11:25 AM
2763180, Exactly.
Posted by ThaTruth, Wed Apr-20-22 11:53 AM
2763249, Lololol, I’m so confused
Posted by pretentious username, Wed Apr-20-22 06:01 PM
You said he’s not MVP level compared to Jokic, Giannis, Embiid. You said he’s JUST a great player on a great system, and that if you took him off the Warriors he would be a rich man’s Dame Lillard (implying that that’s a bad thing).

Now you’re agreeing with me that a “rich man’s Dame Lillard” is an MVP level player.

Make it make sense please.
2763307, that's nothing new...
Posted by ThaTruth, Wed Apr-20-22 10:48 PM
>You said he’s not MVP level compared to Jokic, Giannis,
>Embiid. You said he’s JUST a great player on a great system,
>and that if you took him off the Warriors he would be a rich
>man’s Dame Lillard (implying that that’s a bad thing).
>
>Now you’re agreeing with me that a “rich man’s Dame
>Lillard” is an MVP level player.
>
>Make it make sense please.

Kerr still has to hide Steph on defense, even taking him out of some late game situations so he doesn't get targeted, that doesn't happen with any other "MVP" level player

2763100, So does Giannis get it because of the Joker's meltdown?
Posted by Castro, Tue Apr-19-22 03:09 PM
2763105, If Giannis wins, it'll have nothing to do with Jokic's ejection.
Posted by Frank Longo, Tue Apr-19-22 03:22 PM
It'll be because Giannis is a worthy MVP candidate, and the voters (who cast their ballots before Jokic's ejection) thought he had a better regular season than Jokic did.
2763117, The votes were already in lol
Posted by ThaTruth, Tue Apr-19-22 05:11 PM
2763121, They put an envelope in the freezer b
Posted by Castro, Tue Apr-19-22 05:48 PM
and that was what, 30 years ago?

They can do whatever they want. Joker prolly still getting it. But IJS
2763303, Embiid
Posted by makaveli, Wed Apr-20-22 10:17 PM
2763323, doesn’t get enough credit for his defense
Posted by makaveli, Thu Apr-21-22 08:49 AM
2763332, ...while Mike Malone subs Joker out for defensive possessions...
Posted by bentagain, Thu Apr-21-22 09:29 AM
2763476, MVP?
Posted by bentagain, Fri Apr-22-22 01:06 PM
https://twitter.com/NBCSWarriors/status/1517364577897435139?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1517364577897435139%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.audacy.com%2F957thegame%2Fsports%2Fgolden-state-warriors%2Fdraymond-green-outduels-nikola-jokic-in-huge-game-3-moment

or

https://youtube.com/shorts/59yZL1Kmlaw?feature=share
2763479, not to mention dude was a complete non-factor
Posted by Stadiq, Fri Apr-22-22 01:20 PM

In the last 3-4 minutes at least.


But we have different standards for great white hopes around here...


Great player? Sure. MVP? Absolutely not.
2763527, Those are two plays that don't factor into the MVP voting at all.
Posted by Frank Longo, Sat Apr-23-22 01:30 PM
Which you know, of course.
2763573, where is your line, man?
Posted by Stadiq, Sat Apr-23-22 11:19 PM

Up above you accused anyone not cosigning Jokic's MVP as having an agenda...but you are clearly on your own agenda shit. More than anyone else on this topic.

Every time someone makes an argument against your boy, you either downplay it or completely ignore it.

You want to focus on the fact that playoffs don't count....which is technically true of course...but you completely ignore that every MVP has been held to this standard come playoff time.

If you are the MVP of the league, it should absolutely show in the playoffs.


Dude has not. Even his latest game as impressive if you look at the stats...but if you actually watched the game you know a) he was a defensive liability again and b) he was a non-factor in the closing minutes.

I'm not going to OkaySports you, but I imagine at some point you have called out Westbrook on his stat-stuffing...just a guess...what is different here?

How are his stats impressive/ MVP like...but so may others haven't been?


Denver was the SIXTH SEED. Should there be a floor for MVP regarding his team's record?

If so, where is it?

If not, can say...Dame win it next year if Portland takes 7th? 8th? Misses the playoffs? Assuming he puts up excellent numbers of course?

Where is your line?

Playoff performance doesn't matter...being at least consistently not a liability on defense doesn't matter....team standing doesn't matter...


Is it just stats? Will you apply this next year to any player, or just...certain ones?


I'm honestly not trying to be an asshole because you seem like a decent dude...but you have a blind spot I think.


Plenty of all-time great BLACK players have put up tremendous stats on shitty teams but did not win MVP. Its just a tough pill to swallow watching the double standards here.

Can you really not see that?

His team was 6th. What...6 games over 500? Defensive liability, despite his improvement in this area. Vanishes in closing minutes. Ejected. Etc etc.

Even the steal...yeah Draymond is a dog but cmon...your boy has like 5" on dude at least. That was a fucking lapse by the "MVP"

Nah.


The only way someone can look at this and say "Jokic is clearly the MVP" is if you care only about stats....and I have a hard time believing anyone doing this isn't being a huge hypocrite.





2763529, empty calorie stat hunter. possibly the worst b2b mvp.
Posted by Reeq, Sat Apr-23-22 03:47 PM
worse than nash. idgaf what the advanced stats say. this nigga is in a club with wilt, cap, magic, mj, duncsn, bron, steph, giannis, etc?

cmon.
2763532, Objectively insane to call Jokic “empty calorie,” lmao.
Posted by Frank Longo, Sat Apr-23-22 05:06 PM
Although it is funny that everyone who feels this way always includes “I don’t care what the advanced stats say.” So people dismiss his incredible normal stats as “empty” and the incredible advanced stats as unimportant/flawed.

Basically it all comes down to “my eye test knows better than any stat or any people who watch and analyze the NBA professionally.”

He nearly won 50 games with Will Barton as the second best player on his squad. But sure. Empty calorie. lol

2763534, 20-26 in the playoffs.
Posted by Reeq, Sat Apr-23-22 05:29 PM
prolly gonna be 20-27 with a first class ticket to tulum (the kids aint going to cancun no more).

bed wetter in the moments that matter most. when the *real* mvps show up.

warriors have such little fear of him that hes in single coverage against fucking kevon looney, nemanja bjelica, and a dude half a foot shorter than him smh.

giannis got an entire wall thrown at him.

your boy is unenriched white pasta fam.
2763580, People were quick to call Russ “empty calorie”
Posted by ThaTruth, Sun Apr-24-22 03:55 AM
2764780, Pretty "empty" if he's sitting at home right now.
Posted by Innocent Criminal, Mon May-09-22 08:41 AM
2764783, The hate in here is insane and disingenuous
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Mon May-09-22 09:03 AM
This dude done had to do 2 playoffs and a whole season carrying bums idk what else ppl want from him
2764788, Nah, Will Barton >> Harden , Maxey, Tobias Harris
Posted by guru0509, Mon May-09-22 10:14 AM
>This dude done had to do 2 playoffs and a whole season
>carrying bums idk what else ppl want from him
2764790, lmao wouldn’t surprise me if people thought that
Posted by Frank Longo, Mon May-09-22 10:19 AM
2764878, why not? I mean ppl here thought Josh Howard & JET were better than Dirk
Posted by 40thStreetBlack, Mon May-09-22 10:03 PM
#neverforget
2764922, *in extremely "Leave Britney Alone!" guy voice* Leave me alone!
Posted by Frank Longo, Tue May-10-22 11:29 AM
lol
2764879, worse than Nash? Gotdamn y'all must REALLY hate Jokic!
Posted by 40thStreetBlack, Mon May-09-22 10:14 PM
2763536, dray with the sub.
Posted by Reeq, Sat Apr-23-22 07:10 PM
https://twitter.com/ESPNNBA/status/1517866943516131328
2763620, How far did GSW get in the playoffs when Klay and Steph were hurt ?
Posted by guru0509, Sun Apr-24-22 03:04 PM
>https://twitter.com/ESPNNBA/status/1517866943516131328

It’s pretty hard to win without your two main scoring options
2764772, Jo(kic) got it
Posted by ShawndmeSlanted, Mon May-09-22 07:55 AM
I wanted Joel to get it this year. Are they just gonna give it to Jokic every year he puts these numbers up now?
2764773, I knew he would get it...
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-09-22 07:57 AM
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33886198/sources-denver-nuggets-star-nikola-jokic-named-nba-mvp-second-consecutive-season

the NBA has been pushing the Euro narrative hard
2764778, These writers don’t value defense
Posted by makaveli, Mon May-09-22 08:36 AM
2764785, the NBA doesn't value defense
Posted by Dr Claw, Mon May-09-22 09:33 AM
unless it's in the service of protecting their preferred form of "positionless" basketball more compatible with the international game.
2764787, the NBA wants marketing in Europe
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-09-22 10:07 AM
2764781, Absolute bullshit
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon May-09-22 08:55 AM
Made even more laughable by what happened in the playoffs with Jokic and Embiid. NBA writers love some non-defense playing Europeans.
2764784, Should’ve been Giannis if it wasn’t going to be Jokic
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Mon May-09-22 09:04 AM
2764789, Correct.
Posted by Frank Longo, Mon May-09-22 10:18 AM
2764782, Nash 2.0
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-09-22 09:03 AM
2764796, Cara Cunningham 2.0
Posted by RagOnMe, Mon May-09-22 11:28 AM
2764860, ^^^ Mad 2.0
Posted by 40thStreetBlack, Mon May-09-22 08:47 PM
2764880, very
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-09-22 10:15 PM
2764791, Good selection. Either he or Giannis deserved it.
Posted by Frank Longo, Mon May-09-22 10:26 AM
Either pick the best player in the world or the player who made the biggest individual impact on winning for his team in the regular season. They chose the latter, and I’m more than fine with it.

People who bring up the playoffs expose themselves, because they know, as we all know, that MVP is a regular season award. And Jokic’s stats, both counting stats and advanced, are extraordinary record-setting stuff. And his impact on winning, both from stats and the eye test the regular season, is transparently obvious.

Giannis had Khris Middleton and Jrue Holiday and won 51.
Embiid had Tobias Harris, Tyrese Maxey, and a quarter season of Harden and won 51.
Jokic had… Will Barton and Aaron Gordon… and won only three fewer games than the other MVP candidates.

Like, context matters.

Giannis is obviously the more well-rounded player. Would’ve been happy with him too. But Jokic is the best offensive player in the NBA, and he impacted regular season winning at a crazy level this year. If you don’t think that’s an MVP resume… I don’t know what to tell you.
2764793, man, fuck jokic.
Posted by PROMO, Mon May-09-22 10:40 AM
2764794, just fucking stop, Embiid impacts the game on both ends of the floor...
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-09-22 10:45 AM
Jokic gets exposed on defense, that's why despite some fancy offensive advanced stats he's not in the same class as either Embiid or Giannis even though people like you want to put him there,
2764797, You can tell who doesn't watch the Nuggets in the regular season.
Posted by Frank Longo, Mon May-09-22 11:41 AM
Because in the regular season, Jokic doesn't have to switch. He defends the paint-- and has actually become quite a good defender inside. The most impactful defender on his team, in fact. And one of the most impactful interior defenders in the NBA.

Now, in the playoffs, as we've increasingly seen in the last ~5 years, that's where teams decide to just go all versatility, and we've seen even Gobert-- the best defensive center since, I don't know, Ben Wallace-- be put on an island in space by guards and wings.

So there's a real conversation to be had about the value of drop coverage big men in the playoffs. Draymond Green discussed this idea of an 82 game player vs. a 16 game player-- that certain players are inherently going to bring more value to the regular season, but because the game is so differently run in the playoffs, those players won't have the same value in the postseason by nature of the schemes they'll be forced to play.

And I think if people wanted to advocate for MVP voting to be done after the playoffs and include playoff performance? I'm fine for people to argue that. It'd be interesting to think about how MVP voting would change over the years if the playoffs were included in consideration.

But until that day comes? Jokic was, at worst, one of the best two regular season players in the NBA. And he's the best offensive player in the NBA in the regular season. And, as anyone who watched the Nuggets knows, he wasn't exposed on defense in the regular season-- the opposite, really.

Some articles on Jokic's defense, for anyone interested (I suspect those who think Jokic is a bad regular season defender based on the Golden State series have their mind made up, but if anyone cares):

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/fighting-the-narrative-nikola-jokic-is-not-a-bad-defender/1hsm3nijgbgnw1lr8c22k38clw
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/12/13/22831783/nba-trade-deadline-utah-jazz-boston-celtics
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2021/12/nba-nikola-jokic-defense-stats-nuggets-improvement
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/nikola-jokic-bolstered-his-mvp-case-with-his-defense/
2764807, I did and I don't have to read any of those bullshit articles to know...
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-09-22 12:15 PM
Jokic isn't even in the same realm defensively as Embiid or Giannis. That's why their teams are still playing and he is not.
2764808, 👍
Posted by Frank Longo, Mon May-09-22 12:24 PM
2764817, No doubt. Philly would have *totally* beat GS in round 1.
Posted by khn, Mon May-09-22 02:53 PM
Especially without Harden and Maxey.

lol.
2764881, this argument didn't seem to matter to you when Russ won MVP over Kawhi
Posted by 40thStreetBlack, Mon May-09-22 10:24 PM
or when Harden won it over LeBron and AD.


I wonder why.
2764902, Because you’re racist!!
Posted by Frank Longo, Mon May-09-22 11:30 PM
Wait, what’s happening again?
2764795, pretty much....anybody that doesnt see that is racist
Posted by Cenario, Mon May-09-22 10:49 AM
LOL kidding but yeah.
2764821, It should translate to the playoffs
Posted by bentagain, Mon May-09-22 03:21 PM
I’m not saying he’s not the MVP because he got duffed in the 1st round
I’m saying it’s proof that he doesn’t deserve the award
As you said, MVP could be conflated with best player in the world

That’s not what I saw.

The MVP should be able to translate to the postseason
They’re still playing basketball
2764822, the difference in the playoffs is people can game plan for you...
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-09-22 04:07 PM
and exploit your weakness
2764825, Lol
Posted by RagOnMe, Mon May-09-22 05:10 PM
So what was the weakness they exploited? Him knowing he couldnt foul out? Because he averaged..30+? in his series.
2764847, "Charter member" with less than 1000 posts? alias alert lol...
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-09-22 07:20 PM
>So what was the weakness they exploited? Him knowing he
>couldnt foul out? Because he averaged..30+? in his series.

you still talking about his offensive numbers? GS had a field day going the rack on a Denver team with almost zero rim-protection, if you can't defend the paint you aren't going far in the NBA playoffs
2764884, Yes im an alias
Posted by RagOnMe, Mon May-09-22 10:32 PM
>>So what was the weakness they exploited? Him knowing he
>>couldnt foul out? Because he averaged..30+? in his series.
>
>you still talking about his offensive numbers? GS had a field
>day going the rack on a Denver team with almost zero
>rim-protection, if you can't defend the paint you aren't going
>far in the NBA playoffs
>

Moving along now..thats a valid point, which is exactly why they wait to submit their votes for this award until.. *checks notes* right before the NBA playoffs start to decide the winner.
2764863, word, especially when your 2nd and 3rd options are out of commission
Posted by 40thStreetBlack, Mon May-09-22 09:00 PM
2764913, It’s interesting that Jo gets no credit for Maxey ascending this year
Posted by bentagain, Tue May-10-22 08:15 AM
and it wasn’t just missing our 2nd best player
It was also the circus surrounding the team for the entire year
Trade rumors, holdouts, media back and forths…
We were actually in first place before the Harden trade
and finished with the 2nd best record in the conference

We saw Jo’s impact when he was out games 1&2 vs MIA
and then playing in games 3&4

2764824, yeah the WCF run never happened
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Mon May-09-22 04:41 PM
which is farther than embiid has ever been. maybe he will get there now that he's back tho.

yall gotta stop this shit lol
2764830, you know we dont count that mickey mouse shit.
Posted by Reeq, Mon May-09-22 05:34 PM
and sixers were missing simmons.
2764914, Whether you like it or not it happened,
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Tue May-10-22 08:31 AM
If Embiid is the MVP y’all want him to be then he will make the ECF too
2764912, LOL@a bubble deflection…you’re serious…?
Posted by bentagain, Tue May-10-22 08:11 AM
2764801, Verujte Procesu
Posted by RagOnMe, Mon May-09-22 12:01 PM