For whatever reason I rewatched that post Game 7 press conference Doc gave and still can’t believe he answered a layup of a question so badly….but even worse is how Morey has completely and totally fucked this Ben Simmons trade. You’d think he’d have sold as high as possible, and somehow has lost any and all leverage in the process. Good for Ben for realizing that he doesn’t owe it to the Sixers to increase his value (not that Harden needed to, but he did go out and play) but whew what a damn mess.

It's one thing to trade for young assets when they're just numbers, but once teams have drafted players who think are going to shape their future, it becomes a lot more difficult.

Furthermore, Morey approaching teams and asking for the moon before the draft and after the org was throwing under the bus wasn't a good look either. Neither was refusing to come down at any point.

Now the best option is to wait until the trade deadline.

Like they're trying to call his bluff, but it doesn't seem to be a bluff. I don't think he's going to play.

Making the demand and digging in after the draft and after summer league doesn't seem like the best idea. Pretty everyone involved in this hasn't been helping their cause.

If I was a conspiracy guy, I'd say Klutch was doing this make it so the Lakers could get Simmons on the cheap, but I don't see how ANY trade with the Lakers would work.

(For a lot of different reasons)

But I don't think Simmons' value will ever be so low that Talen Horton Tucker is the centerpiece.

Ben got a max contract...flaws and all
Obviously, nobody is offering that value in return
and the response has been a trade demand and threat to sit out
...that math just doesn't add up IMO...
The sources for these stories feel like they're coming from Klutch/Paul, not Ben himself
Morey would get fried if he traded Ben for FIBA Patty and tacos... I'm not sure how this is on him?

Ben is not and has never been a Harden, KD, Bron, etc type talent so why are they expecting the moon for a guy they threw under the bus? Either he's worth a huge haul or he's not, but if he IS? Then he shouldn't be questioned as whether or not he can be the point guard on a championship team.

We haven't been out of the 2nd round with Ben at PG
Saying he's not a championship PG is just a fact.
Bye

Again, factual

He could try and prove us wrong... he's not choosing to do that=Morey's fault (c) you

"Factual" or not, it was a very dumb response.

Ben played like ass in the playoffs, so he wants out? For what? He hoping to go to Sacramento and put up meaningless numbers or something?

Same issues he’s having in Philly he’s going to have on any other real team until he starts shooting the ball.

I get why he wants out, and I get that while he played like total shit - that was one playoff series, and that team was flawed. Should they have lost to the Hawks? No. But Ben became THE scapegoat. He's flawed as a player, but I understand why he wants out. He was probably unfairly deemed the single reason they lost - and then for Doc to question if he can be the PG on a championship team (mind you - the question wasn't "Can Ben be the guy on a contender"), I get it.

The team gave him a max contract
=/= The team bailed on him
Stop.

You're a LAL's fan right?
One of the common themes from BB's time as HC was a lack of accountability
Jimmy said it
JRich said
even Tobias said it

Ben is being held accountable...and is deciding to take his ball and go home... literally

Just stop.

So they gave him a max contract MUST mean they didn't bail on him and make him the lone scapegoat for them losing to a lesser team. Sure. We'll go with that weird line of logic.

No one in this scenario is coming off well. Given how savvy Morey, Doc, and even Embiid are with respect to their jobs and the media, it's a headscratcher why no one can get out of their own way.

I don't think Doc said the right thing. He made mistakes himself in that series. But I think at the moment he passive-aggressively went at Ben, he saw that all the coaching up and all the times he probably went out of his way to praise Ben had no real impact.

Yes, Ben was infamously bad this postseason but his unwillingness to show any commitment to expanding his offensive game has been a constant for years. His reputation as a talented player with a highly fragile ego is why Doc was so glowing in his recaps of Ben, even when Ben didn't quite deserve Doc's praise.

The management and coaching staff is all-new, but the discontent of the organization in Ben's lack of growth isn't. That could be why we look at the Sixers' desire to trade Ben seems new. In reality, the tide has been flowing in that direction for some time.

is that I think a simmons for CJ trade is something that should be workable on both sides

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

CJ is a near-all star, and they could theoretically be swapped straight up (I imagine Philly would need a pick or two).

and on both sides it's so good. everything Simmons is bad at is the stuff portland doesn't need at all because Dame is that guy

and in philly CJ isn't getting boxed in by playing with someone who does most of the same stuff he does, but better

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

If the answer is no, then the right move is to wait and see if Dame is available at the trade deadline

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Which is to say a fringe all star guy who fits with the team.

If Joel is healthy - yes, he makes them a contender.

I wonder what my lineup looks like with CJ instead of Ben. Seth Curry goes to the bench, and you start CJ, Danny Green, Tobias, Embiid, and... what, Shake Milton? Because to me, I don't think that's better than a, what, 4th seed in the East? Maybe 5th? In which case... is that a true contender? Especially considering what the top seeds in the West look like?

Plus, and more importantly, you're now in a spot where Curry, McCollum, and Maxey all more or less do the same thing at the same size to varying levels of efficacy... which just isn't great use of a roster. Not to mention, if you're even *entertaining* playing two of these players at once, then you're going to have a serious problem defending the perimeter. The efficacy of the defense is already going to dip considerably once you lose a Top 5 defender in the NBA like Ben.

Now, if they can make a deal where it's, say, Simmons and Maxey (who Paul seems to want out anyway also, so probably sucks long term for Philly, but fair enough) for CJ, Larry Nance, and 2-3 future firsts? Now you're looking at CJ, Green, Harris, Nance, Embiid with Curry and Milton first off the bench? While I'm still not necessarily convinced that's a true title contender, you at least know you're going to still have a top 3-4 defense in the NBA, and you'll have improved shooting on the floor, which means the offense has a decent shot to nudge into the top 10. I'd like that team's odds to win 50+ games.

But I'd have concerns about Ben for CJ straight up, due largely to fit.

idk what you're looking for that will fix that team

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

If we're talking a Philly-Portland trade.

1. Trade Ben for Dame, straight up. Or Ben and a pick or two for Dame. But essentially asset for asset, right today.
2. Trade Ben and an asset or two for CJ, Nance, and maybe another asset.
3. Trade Ben for CJ, straight up. Or for CJ and a pick. But again, we're talking asset for asset right today.

I think the top two trades put them in contention for Top 3 in the East, and certainly in a nice spot if BK or MIL suffers an injury.

I think the bottom trade makes them around 5th in the East, which still keeps true contention pretty comfortably out of reach.

I just don't think adding *just* CJ when you have Seth and Maxey does a lot in terms of maximizing your roster. Because then 3 of your best 5 players are all, in terms of skills, weaknesses, and size, identical.

but I don't think Dame is actually available, maybe I'll be wrong in the future but we'll have to wait,


I'm not the GM of the 76ers or even a fan of the tean, but selfishly I'd rather see simmons and dame together than dame and embiid together

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Dame and Embiid >> CJ, pieces, and Embiid >>>>>>>>>>> CJ and Embiid

As for the Blazers, they don't have many choices. If they don't start the year looking like a playoff team (and I suspect they won't), then they have two choices: 1) make a big splashy move to make the team better and keep Dame happy, or 2) trade Dame for the best asset package you can muster.

And, to be clear, if they can get Simmons for CJ, even for CJ and a piece, I do think it immediately makes the Blazers better. Especially since I don't think that'd be the last move they make. They just need defensive versatility and ball movement so desperately, and Simmons, whatever you think of him, is elite at both.

One can ask the question "but what if Ben isn't motivated and pouts and refuses to play well" or whatever. And I think that's a fair enough question... but I assume that playing with an elite guard like Dame would appeal to him. The biggest problem Ben has is that the only elite player on his current team takes up the space inside that Ben needs in order to be any kind of offensive threat today. Dame spaces the floor. Ben and Dame could be a really lethal pairing in theory. (But again, anyone who says "but we don't know if Ben will try!"-- I wouldn't counter that point. It's a totally fair point. But I think, for a Portland team that really needs to shake things up, it's worth the gamble imo.)

WTF is Mr. Big Shot gonna do with Mr. No Shot.

He can playmake, in the same way that Draymond does. But he probably shouldn't be a guy used outside the perimeter making plays. It's just not the way to extract the most value out of his skill set, because defenders will straight sag off him. If you put him at the elbow or in some pick-and-roll action, and use him instead as an elite-passing forward alongside an elite perimeter combo guard (much like Draymond has!), then the pairing makes total sense, and the value of both players will be maximized.

That's valuable on any team.

Sixers shouldn't even look at a Colin, Kevin, extras trade proposal.

Ben went about this the wrong way. Show up, SHOOT THE BALL, be aggressive, and silently request a trade. They just want him to be aggressive and shoot, that's it. Instead he wants out with his max contract.

I don't think Morey was going to be able to trade Simmons high. The whole league knew Simmons wanted out before Simmons went public with it. Morey was never going to get the sort of deal Simmons is worth before the season started.

Simmons is a 3x All-Star, 2x First-Team All-Defense, 1x All-NBA... before he turned 25. So yes, he's not the sort of transcendent AD/Harden/whatever guy today... but contextualize that:

- there are 32 active players in the NBA who've played in 3 or more NBA All-Star Games
- only 7 of those players are under 30 years old
- of those 7, only 3 also have multiple All-Defense honors

AND on top of that, he's signed for four more seasons! Like, Anthony Davis had one guaranteed year left. Harden had two guaranteed years left. Simmons has FOUR.

If you value youth (the league does), versatility (the league does), and the ability to play on both ends (the league... often does)? Then Simmons, even considering last year's playoff disaster, is one of the more valuable contracts in the league. Especially on a team looking to win now.

So even doing something like punting him off for future draft equity-- or even draft equity in this draft beforehand, unless it was a Top 3 pick-- just isn't something that helps a win-now team like the Sixers. Morey likely assesses Simmons ages 26 through 29 as a guy likely to make another 3-4 ASGs and another 4 All-Defense teams from 2022 to 2025. When you're a win-now team, you just aren't going to find that in the draft.

I think that's why the reported trade offer to the Warriors was so egregiously stacked-- because Morey (correctly) said, "well fuck it, if there's no win-now piece, then at least stack my team with ridiculous depth of young talent that'll really start to hit their stride before it's time to negotiate with Embiid again." The Warriors did the right thing by turning it down right away, because they're not pressed for a guy like Simmons with the current blend of old and young talent they have-- but I also think Morey's doing the right thing by asking for the moon if there's no win-now piece in the deal.

My last point: everyone *thinks* Morey is pressed to trade him before the season starts, so they're all going to lowball him. Yet because Simmons is under a 4-year deal, and Morey is incentivized to get something resembling an equitable return on value for Simmons (especially to keep Embiid happy), I don't really think Morey is as pressed to make a move as people may think. He can fine Simmons a mil and a half for skipping camp. He can fine him more for skipping games. Simmons can't really even do the Harden thing of coming in and tanking games with shitty play, because the Sixers can just... not play him. They won't be nearly as good as they'd be with a motivated Simmons, but they'd still be playoff good (injuries notwithstanding) and can dangle Simmons out there to teams before the deadline.

So they can afford to just cool their heels and wait for a team mid-season to get desperate. Other GMs and coaches will hit the hot seat before Morey and Rivers do. There's no doubt Philly is eyeballing the situations around Lillard and Beal, specifically, just biding their time, seeing if the teams aren't that good and if the stars get restless.

So I don't think Morey had any chance to sell high. And I don't really think he's lost all his leverage either. All he's got to do is show his willingness to not play Simmons.

That said, and not that star trade demands are at all uncommon or foreign, this one kinda feels different in so much as Ben seems wired different than most AND there's this element of seemingly pinning a series loss on him. You don't see THAT a ton, really. So I guess him skipping camp and games really only goes to lessen his value even more...which is advantageous only to Ben.

Anyway, weird scenario. And you could be right. But it's very weird to see the Philly fans react to all this.

With all THAT said...I remember asking a Philly fan friend about that hypothetical Harden/Simmons trade from last season and he couldn't have said yes faster, which still makes me laugh because...obviously.

>So I guess him skipping camp and games
>really only goes to lessen his value even more...which is
>advantageous only to Ben.

... does this lessen his value *that* much?

I mean, yes, there's the Malcontent label... but he's already got that anyway. I don't really know if the Malcontent label gets much worse if he spends time out. It'd potentially only get worse if he *did* choose to play and did the Harden "I'm playing like an asshole to force your hand" thing. And I don't really see that happening. Especially since the Sixers don't really need to play him.

The only scenario I see where Simmons's value actually dips is if the Sixers are as good or better without him. Two things about that: 1) I don't think that's very likely. 2) If that does happen, it's frankly even *more* incentive for Morey to not rush a deal. If they can still be Top 3 in the East good without Simmons, then why trade him for pennies on the dollar?

It's just such a singularly strange scenario, one where I can't recall having seen anything quite like it before. There's just such a clear incentive for both parties to dig in their heels and not give an inch. Which is why I truly believe the Sixers' best course is to wait and see what other teams need. Simmons may not give an inch, and Morey may not give an inch, but other teams will definitely give several inches before the deadline.

(Watch, I've written all this and he'll be traded for a bag of dildos in the next 7 days, lol.)

been the GM
Morey was brought in to clean up his mess
and immediately put in Herculean effort getting rid of the absurd Tito experiment and contract
...I'd put money on Morey figuring this out...

Real question, why isn't this Brand's L?

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/71480086/wellisnt-that-convenient.jpg

Add him onto the pile.

See reply 30
...CJ wouldn't make us better than BK...
C'mon son, you're just talking nonsense now.

Dame Lillard.

Forcing Blake to guard Embiid and Kyrie to guard Dame... at least makes the potential offensive battle interesting. And you've gotta factor in the possibility that, if they did bring in Dame, Philly suddenly becomes far more attractive to some of the veterans that are available or will become available around the deadline.

Philly's problem against Brooklyn and Milwaukee is that they have absolutely no one to even pretend to guard Durant and Giannis (once they trade Simmons). And, if they got Dame, I think Morey would be savvy enough to look to immediately swap Tobias Harris for someone better to try to deal with that issue-- or at least stack up a potent enough perimeter offense that it could give Milwaukee and Brooklyn a real fight (since no one can guard Durant or Giannis anyway, really).

Dame and Embiid together make them at *least* the three seed. I think that team's better than Miami and Atlanta right away. Whereas, like I said above, I think a deal for CJ bumps them down to 4 seed at best, more realistically 5 seed (unless it's CJ and the right pieces).

I wonder what Morey says when GMs mention that and laugh at his trade demands.




>For whatever reason I rewatched that post Game 7 press
>conference Doc gave and still can’t believe he answered a
>layup of a question so badly….but even worse is how Morey
>has completely and totally fucked this Ben Simmons trade.
>You’d think he’d have sold as high as possible, and
>somehow has lost any and all leverage in the process. Good for
>Ben for realizing that he doesn’t owe it to the Sixers to
>increase his value (not that Harden needed to, but he did go
>out and play) but whew what a damn mess.

Called this above, really, lol. People thought the Sixers had no leverage... but if you're cool with sitting on a player if need be, then you're not under as much pressure as people think.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/basketball/nba/nba-trade-news-2021-ben-simmons-philadelphia-76ers-latest-updates-trades-stay-in-philly-training-camp-start-date/news-story/074db12dea58f23e54169b984555dc96

Philadelphia has reportedly made a shock U-turn on its stance on wantaway point guard Ben Simmons and now expect him to play in the blue and white for the 2021/22 season.

According to reporter Tom Moore of the Bucks County Courier Times in Philadelphia, the Sixers are no longer planning on making a deal for the 25-year-old and have accepted that they will not receive what they want for him.

He added that the Sixers are not willing to accept a deal centred around future draft picks and see themselves drop back in the standings and there is no viable offer on the table to secure a genuine All-Star as his replacement.

He claimed that Philly has been unable to secure any of the names on its list of 5-10 replacements so will stick with Simmons.

It has been widely reported how Simmons is desperate to get out of Philadelphia and that he is willing to refuse to attend preseason training camp or play another game for the Sixers in order to push a trade through.

His preference is to head to California, ideally with one of the Lakers, Clippers or Warriors, although no offers have been forthcoming.

Moore added in his report that the Sixers believe that once Simmons is aware he is no longer on the trade table, he will have to show up and they plan to fine him for every day he doesn’t attend training camp, preseason and games, which could be around $308k-a-day.

He wrote: “NBA source: The Sixers ‘are expecting Ben Simmons to play in 2020-21. The expectation is they will. It’s bumpy right now and the team expects it to get better’.

“The 76ers don’t plan on making a deal that would drop them back in the standings and not get viable offers.

“More from NBA source: ‘Eventually he’s going to show up. Sixers will go from there’. They apparently plan to fine Simmons if he doesn’t attend 2021-22 camp, preseason and so on. Don’t want to trade for draft picks and try to convert to players. Can’t get any of 5-10 NBA guys they like.”

he wants to get traded, then show how valuable he is.

... but it won't be to any playoff contender. Basically zero chance. He can get traded at the deadline to Minnesota or Washington or Sacramento or some team with no hope looking for a shake-up. He won't want to do that... but if he doesn't play, he won't have many options.

Simmons gets to go put up numbers on a perennial 30-52 team, and Fox can go be a dog in Philly.

The b-ball universe needs this to happen.

He can sit out as long as he wants. It’ll only hurt both sides. Sixers have a right to hold out for a deal that’s better than a bag of dildos. Simmons did just sign a max extension 2 year ago and is making close to $40 million a year. That’s a lot for a guy coming off a historically awful postseason.

I say all this as someone who’s generally much higher on Simmons than most Sixers fans. I wish it could work out in Philly, but I’d be happy to see him shine elsewhere.

https://twitter.com/shamscharaiia/status/1438871440577777674?s=21

https://mobile.twitter.com/kingjames/status/1439087731385126913?s=21

(c) click bait headline by some rando hack
The rando stories only ever relying on 'sources'... it's actually funny to sit back and watch it unfold really

Has no one realized yet...there hasn't been a statement from the 6ers FO or Ben Simmons...?
dem sauces

It's taken down now.

Said like Murray and Johnson, among others, IIRC. Obviously not a deal that would ever happen.

We got ourselves a standoff!

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1440340920805691393?s=20

I suspect that this isn't news to Philly, and Philly knew this when they came out and publicly said they're content to wait for the right deal.

"No, I quit, you're the problem."

pussy

>For whatever reason I rewatched that post Game 7 press
>conference Doc gave and still can’t believe he answered a
>layup of a question so badly….but even worse is how Morey
>has completely and totally fucked this Ben Simmons trade.
>You’d think he’d have sold as high as possible, and
>somehow has lost any and all leverage in the process. Good for
>Ben for realizing that he doesn’t owe it to the Sixers to
>increase his value (not that Harden needed to, but he did go
>out and play) but whew what a damn mess.

with all Ben's fault's he still did a lot and was DPOY runner-up. They will be a worse team without him.

scoring is all that really matters in the NBA anymore, and BS can't do that part of the job

>scoring is all that really matters in the NBA anymore, and BS
>can't do that part of the job

Philly is going to be worse without Ben, definitely not the top seed in the east, may struggle to be top 4

See if Dame and Beal get pissed at their team (or some other star! it's a long season!). If they do, beautiful, you have a fantastic package you can offer for them. If they don't, there may be other trade deadline options-- teams just on the outside of playoff contention looking to shake things up, teams who fear young talented players won't resign or sign extensions that could find the length of Ben's current deal attractive, etc.

Loads of reasons to wait, not many reasons to make a rushed deal. They can honestly probably contend for the sixth seed *without* Simmons, so if their ceiling is the fifth seed if they make any of the theoretical currently available deals, that's just not enough needle movement to convince Morey to pull the trigger imo.

So yeah, I agree, odds are pretty high they'll be worse unless they manufacture a star for Simmons. Which, at this point, would be a *colossal* win for Morey, since few if any really expect that to actually happen.

Doc is a very smart and very savvy guy, and he shot himself in the foot.

All he had to say was, "Yes, he can be the point guard on a championship team, but it's going to take a lot of work for us all to get to that point."

Post-game frustration or not, he should have known the airing Simmons out publicly was a bad look.

That doesn’t somehow erase Simmons’s abysmal postseason performance. It doesn’t stop the Sixers from shopping him. It doesn’t stop the media and talking from criticizing Ben for his disappearing act against the Hawks. I highly doubt it changes Ben’s perception of how he’s viewed in Philly.

I mean sure, Doc should’ve answered that question with more tact. I mean, the response should always be YES, we can win a chip with whoever. But Doc was asked in the moment, so I think he needs to get some level of a pass here. He shouldn’t have given the response he did, but it’s a bit bizarre if that’s fault line that permanently severed ties between Simmons and the Sixers organization.

People keep saying that. It was a very bad SERIES, not postseason, and that's important because literally every star has at least one of those.

He averaged 15/10/9 in the first round. His averages over his 4 previous postseason series were 15.8/8.2/7 so pretty dead on.

He DID have a terrible series vs the Hawks with 9.9/6.3/8.6 - absolutely. And they should not have lost that series. But Ben is who he is.

And yeah Doc probably could have at least not totally bumbled that response, which of course is "Yes, Ben is an all NBA caliber player. Of course he can be the PG on a title squad. We need to get better as a team." Whether or not he believes it, that was the answer to give publicly.

I think you're right that Simmons's postseason on the whole wasn't as bad as people believe due to the disaster of the Hawks series... but I also think MM is right that the perception of Ben across the league more or less cemented itself as a result of these playoffs.

There's been concern for a while about Simmons's confidence on offense-- he's taken both fewer FGs and fewer FTs two straight seasons now, very strange for a young guy who should be hitting his stride right now. Most strikingly, this last season, he took notably fewer shots at the rim and more in the 3-15 foot range, which almost *certainly* has to do with his very apparent lack of confidence in his FT ability. He was an elite finisher at the rim in college, and it's easily the best part of his scoring package, so if he is taking fewer of those shots out of fear he'll have to go to the line... then... yeah. That's bad. And we obviously saw that in very extreme form in that Hawks series. So while I agree that he wasn't bad before the Hawks series and there shouldn't be *that* level of panic based on just one series... I'd actually argue the Hawks series is just the pinnacle of a growing concern that dude's confidence as a scorer is regressing before age 25. (For the record, I think that will be rectified by a change of scenery, especially if that new team has an elite guard creating space.)

I also think MM's right that even if Doc hadn't said what he said, most of this probably still plays out the same way regardless, but I think you're right that Doc not publicly supporting him certainly didn't help and exacerbated things.

It's a crazy situation. One of the stranger scenarios I can recall.

#s against a pretty mediocre to bad Wizards team, so all in all it was yet another disappointing postseason where his limitations were on full display. I was actually one of the few posters who came to Ben’s defense following the onslaught of hate he got immediately following the Hawks series. I’m higher on Ben than most and will not be the least bit surprised if he goes on to play much better elsewhere. Though he was always going to be a bit limited on the Sixers team as currently constructed, I do think he left a bit on the table. I’ll be disappointed if he’s really unable to own up to his shortcomings and force his way out due to spite.

My overall point was that I believe people are assigning too much blame on Doc’s comments made in the spur of the moment. I’d be willing to bet the house that Doc has made more than enough attempts to clarify his comments and affirm his confidence in Ben. Ben definitely didn’t deserve the hate he got, but he has to realize that it was coming from all angles - not just in Philly. He’s a max level contract guy who is expected to play big in big moments. But he routinely defers in big game moments. I think he would get more of a pass if he at least would make some FTs.

All in all it’s a pretty shitty situation for both sides. Ben’s entering his prime and has got 4 years left on a max level contract . Sixers don’t have to pay him if he doesn’t play, but do they want to risk not getting an asset now since Embiid’s window may only be the next 4-5 years?? It will be an interesting standoff between Morey and Simmons’s camp.

He is not a complete basketball player. I would have taken Wiggins in a one
for one trade, and be done with it.

Wiggins is now an elite defender, and can get you 20 points a game, and
avg a block a game, and he doesn’t miss games. Plus he played with
Embid at Kansas.


Morey needs to make the deal happen, and move on.

Pacers need defense at the point badly, and don’t really need a lot of scoring

Levert
Sabonis
Tj Warren

will dominate the ball and put up points, So brogdon isn’t needed.
Plus he is a below average defender.

Philly need scoring at the point, Brogdon would fit in nicely......

It'd need to be, like, Brogdon and Turner for Simmons to get the money to work. And I can't imagine the Pacers would be interested.

Especially because they've been looking to trade Turner to free up space for Sabonis to operate-- and Simmons would need to operate in that exact same space. (And, of course, Philly doesn't really have need for an asset like Turner to function as a backup when Turner will be looking for a big contract summer of 2023.)

Pacers I'm sure would try to deal just Brogdon, a pick, maybe two, and some bullshit expiring deal like Lamb or something... but Morey's not going to settle for that. Because outside of shooting (which does matter! but it's not the only thing!), Simmons is better than Brogdon at literally every other component of basketball.

And he's almost 5 years younger. And has made multiple All-Star teams, multiple All-Defense first teams, and an All-NBA team. And Brogdon would need to resign summer of 2023, but Simmons is signed for another four seasons. And a Brogdon/Curry/Milton/Harris/Embiid seed has a pretty hard 5 seed ceiling.

It's a tough situation. I understand why Morey seems happy to sit on him and wait for the bigger pieces to potentially become available.

>He is not a complete basketball player. I would have taken
>Wiggins in a one
>for one trade, and be done with it.
>
>Wiggins is now an elite defender, and can get you 20 points a
>game, and

Is he? Simmons is an elite defender, Wiggins was a good defender last year but he’s far from elite lol

... he still put up negative box plus-minus (albeit his best box plus-minus to date!). It's definitely not yet clear that Wiggins can be an integral piece on a winning basketball team, let alone a playoff contender. And it's a lot easier to be an improved defender when sharing the floor with Draymond Green, one of the best NBA defenders of the last decade.

I get why the Warriors would be happy to keep him around, because with Klay back, Wiggins would be the fourth most important player on the floor (and maybe not even that, depending on Wiseman's improvement, Kuminga, etc.). It's a great upside situation for them. And they likely think they can squeeze a bit more juice out of him. And if it doesn't work out, his contract's expiring after 2022/23 and would be a pretty attractive trade chip then. It's a win-win.

But the Sixers would need to replace their second most important player. And if we think Wiggins can be the second most important player on a team, we can take a look at how the Timberwolves did.

I give Wiggins all the credit in the world, btw. It is *insanely* hard to come back from being such a net-negative player for so long to becoming a useful role player on a decent team. Most guys just flame out and that's that. I think he can give the Warriors a lot this year, especially til Kuminga starts really figuring it out. (Or Moody. Or Wiseman, really. There are a lot of young Warriors I like.)

But yeah, his inclusion in a Simmons deal would exclusively be for making the money work. Zero chance Morey sees value in Wiggins as a Simmons replacement.

https://twitter.com/bleacherreport/status/1440876243466047488?s=21

and avg a block a game, and became one of the best on ball
defenders in the league.

That’s why they started calling him two-way wigs.

Steve Kerr:

“You're gonna guard LeBron , you're gonna guard Kawhi , you're gonna guard Luka . We don't have other guys on the roster who can do that so that's your job. Here's what you need to do to do that and we're gonna stay on you.' That plan was executed. Andrew embraced it and really did a good job with it. Not many other guys could have done .”

I remember seeing a stat illustrating that Wiggins was holding the opposing team’s
star player under their season fg pct when he would guard them.

If that’s not elite, I don’t know what is. And then you add his offensive ability to that,
and it makes him a way more skilled player than Ben Simmons.

>and avg a block a game, and became one of the best on ball
>defenders in the league.
>
>That’s why they started calling him two-way wigs.
>
>Steve Kerr:
>
>“You're gonna guard LeBron , you're gonna guard Kawhi
>, you're gonna guard Luka . We don't have
>other guys on the roster who can do that so that's your job.
>Here's what you need to do to do that and we're gonna stay on
>you.' That plan was executed. Andrew embraced it and really
>did a good job with it. Not many other guys could have done
>.”
>
>I remember seeing a stat illustrating that Wiggins was holding
>the opposing team’s
>star player under their season fg pct when he would guard
>them.
>
>If that’s not elite, I don’t know what is. And then you
>add his offensive ability to that,
>and it makes him a way more skilled player than Ben Simmons.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Wiggins held him to 38 percent shooting and seven turnovers.

Again, if that’s not elite, I don’t know what is.

>Wiggins held him to 38 percent shooting and seven turnovers.
>
>Again, if that’s not elite, I don’t know what is.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leonaka01/gamelog/2021

When Wiggins GUARDED Kawhi...

Example in their first 2 match ups (as well as in their last match up)

When Wiggins GUARDED Kawhi ( lock down city)!:

4 points | 5 turnovers
2-12 FG (16.7%)
0-4 3P

https://sports.yahoo.com/andrew-wiggins-defense-kawhi-leonard-191952784.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAMYKwgxnneqHopUdpCSYPYhI3lB9htr7x6zDG2RekWNzLDRh6Siq15LTz1AwuwTGLWou8h0KNhBbryqIoJPzEg_YqlhYi4ZKxl01aSCaYpSSudVwj5lM1o9dzreH49G0VjETWTdrTUtgMUxO79fhK3C8g7Hnwykuys3m0cfaXAQ9

this is a hilarious clusterfuck all around.

25y/o, 3X All-Star, 2X All-Defensive First Team, DPOY runner-up "useless"

he's over 33% of their salary cap dude, and he can't score points

I'm confused as to why everyone is so confused on this

Ben averages 15-16 PPG, PJ's averaged under 8 a game for the last five seasons (and never averaged double figures).

Ben is a Top 5 defender in the league, PJ isn't even a top 2 defender on his own team.

Ben is a Top 10-15 passer in the league, Top 5 out of everyone over 6'6, giving him obvious value as a creator for others. PJ has one of the lower assist rates in the NBA for wings.

Like, I get that shooting is important, it's insanely important-- but defense and passing are two of the three most valuable skills an NBA player can have. And Ben is elite at both. And he just turned 25. He provides obvious value for the right team.

He's also not over 33% of their salary cap, lol. If you're going by the NBA salary cap for 2022, he's under 30%-- and, more importantly, if you go by the Sixers' actual payroll for 2022 (detailed here: https://hoopshype.com/salaries/philadelphia_76ers/), he's right around 23%. For a multi-year All-Star and recent All-NBA player who just turned 25, that's absolutely a reasonable percentage, cmon.

your comment would hold more weight.

but everyone plays defense and weaknesses are exposed. unfortunately his weaknesses are net negative for a contender in May.

but yeah, his numbers on a monday night in february vs the pistons do look pretty good.

And how many teams, at their current state, would settle for trying to get to the 45-to-48 win mark before worrying about what it takes to actually contend?

I agree that the former group of teams likely has basically no interest in trading for Simmons, especially now that he's taken this strange approach to leaving Philly. You need shooting in the playoffs, especially the later rounds, there's just no real way around it. But I think Simmons has clear value for the latter group of teams-- and I think the latter teams handily outnumber the former.

So while he may be "useless" in his current form for, say, 8ish teams in the NBA? He would absolutely raise the ceiling for at least half the teams in the league, all while carrying the upside of "holy shit if he's anything but passive as a shooter, he's a perennial All-NBA guy."

but i'm talking about his current fit with the sixers.

he just doesn't move the needle for them in the playoffs. it's a weird position for a team to be in. and as a rival fan i find it hilarious and highly entertaining.

he can do his thing all season and take the summers off in LA like he loves doing, he's clearly not about the post season grind




>this is a hilarious clusterfuck all around.

Plenty of non-contenders are just looking to straight up improve as regular season teams before they can dream about the playoffs on a regular basis. And Simmons is a no-brainer floor-raiser for the regular season for a team like Sacramento (or Washington, as I'm sure Morey is hoping).

Until Simmons looks less shook as a shooting threat, his appeal to any playoff team is going to be limited. So him holding out hope that the Lakers, Clippers, or Warriors will come off serious assets for him... is just that. Hope. Not reality. lol.

>Plenty of non-contenders are just looking to straight up
>improve as regular season teams before they can dream about
>the playoffs on a regular basis. And Simmons is a no-brainer
>floor-raiser for the regular season for a team like Sacramento
>(or Washington, as I'm sure Morey is hoping).
>
>Until Simmons looks less shook as a shooting threat, his
>appeal to any playoff team is going to be limited. So him
>holding out hope that the Lakers, Clippers, or Warriors will
>come off serious assets for him... is just that. Hope. Not
>reality. lol.

I’m not sure I’ve ever wanted a hypothetical trade (that I have no idea if it’s even being discussed) to happen more than this one.

that if you swap Simmons for Fox.

This is a dude who placed all his faith in Mike Antoni

I thought Philly would hire him over Doc Rivers tbh



>that if you swap Simmons for Fox.

I think Morey (correctly) realizes that a team centered around Harden wasn't going to win with defense, so they loaded up with offense.

Philly is currently the 13th best offense in the NBA. And they don't shoot a lot of 3s. (These things are probably related.) So I think if Morey's going to sacrifice defense-- and, in dealing Simmons, that's almost certainly going to be the case-- he probably won't do it for a player like Fox, who doesn't stretch the floor as a shooter. This is the weird part about building your team around a center in today's NBA-- it rules out a lot of potential talent you could take on, because you need to leave the middle of the floor as open as possible.

(It's also underscores how great a job Denver has done, saying, "Cool, we've got Jokic, let's have four guys spacing the floor around him at basically all times on offense." Meanwhile, Philly has Simmons, who can't shoot, Harris, who prefers to operate in the midrange, and Embiid, a true big, on the floor at the same time a lot. And they drafted Thybulle, who can't shoot. And Maxey, an awesome scorer, but not a distance shooter.)

there isn't a better defensive player in the league other than Gobert.

So you might as well try and get the best offensive talent you can to offset the loss, it might fuck up your team chemistry for a season but I think Philly has the patience

but this is all moot because Sacramento said absolutely not to letting Fox Bagley or Halliburton go.




>I think Morey (correctly) realizes that a team centered
>around Harden wasn't going to win with defense, so they loaded
>up with offense.
>
>Philly is currently the 13th best offense in the NBA. And they
>don't shoot a lot of 3s. (These things are probably related.)
>So I think if Morey's going to sacrifice defense-- and, in
>dealing Simmons, that's almost certainly going to be the
>case-- he probably won't do it for a player like Fox, who
>doesn't stretch the floor as a shooter. This is the weird part
>about building your team around a center in today's NBA-- it
>rules out a lot of potential talent you could take on, because
>you need to leave the middle of the floor as open as possible.
>
>
>(It's also underscores how great a job Denver has done,
>saying, "Cool, we've got Jokic, let's have four guys spacing
>the floor around him at basically all times on offense."
>Meanwhile, Philly has Simmons, who can't shoot, Harris, who
>prefers to operate in the midrange, and Embiid, a true big, on
>the floor at the same time a lot. And they drafted Thybulle,
>who can't shoot. And Maxey, an awesome scorer, but not a
>distance shooter.)

you can't just flip and become an offensive team. It just doesn't work like that.

The Lakers tried that when they brought in Antoni to replace Mike Brown and it set us back like 5 or 6 years.

https://sixerswire.usatoday.com/2021/09/01/kings-unlikely-to-part-with-deaaron-fox-tyrese-haliburton-for-ben-simmons/

As for Sacramento, sources have suggested the 76ers would only be willing to consider an offer that includes De’Aaron Fox or Tyrese Haliburton. The Kings are unlikely to part with either player, but they can offer Buddy Hield, a prolific 3-point shooter who would space the floor for Joel Embiid; Marvin Bagley III, a former No. 2 pick who has yet to reach his potential; and other assets, including multiple first-round draft picks.

>you can't just flip and become an offensive team. It just
>doesn't work like that.
>
>The Lakers tried that when they brought in Antoni to replace
>Mike Brown and it set us back like 5 or 6 years.
>
>

this is embarassing.

At your job if a "colleague" was getting paid way more than you but wouldn't show up when it mattered the most you would be ready to show them the door yourself regardless of "talent".

This dude has been booty butt cheeks in MANY a fourth quarter....

He also flatly refuses to REALLY correct his shot.

Jason Kidd is a great example. Dude couldn't shoot worth a damn when he came in and he worked at it. Even had a decent 3 pointer eventually.

You can't have this dude as your supposed second best player and not have him be even an OPTION offensively in crunch time. You can get away with having a post player/defender/forward do that and ONLY if they are a super plus defender/rebounder/shot blocker.

I've never seen a guard this "talented" that is this disinterested in taking shots. Even mid range or close range shots. This dude is an absolute liability offensively not just because his shot is bad but because he's so tentative.

Simmons needs to spend a few years in a Siberia like Minnesota and work on his craft and then maybe he can think about making demands.

Very strange to see grown men so invested in defending
this guy.

Dudes up above are claiming “one bad series” and
acting like overrated players never make an all star
team. Just straight up lying about the situation.

Dude is a liability, tentative, etc. Worst part?


This guy has flat out refused to get better. Not even
to work on an area enough that he wouldn’t be an
extreme liability.

Has shown no desire or accountability.

Maybe a big piece of this is that no team wants him.

If he really had the upside these dudes claim, he’d be
a rocket or a blazer or something by now.


Dude is soft and privileged.

You’re not getting over on being a great defender
and decent passer.

Not in 2021 and definitely not if you’re getting superstar
pay/treatment.

This isn’t hard. Sixers should have flipped him
last season.

>Very strange to see grown men so invested in defending
>this guy.

It's a bad decision for him. It's not going to work out the way he wants, and it's dumb with 4 years left on a deal to think your owner will just come off you for peanuts when you haven't earned your way into roster consideration for an immediate title contender. It's also going to bring up all sorts of questions from future teams about whether they can get the most out of him, whether he's got the yips, whether he really wants to put in the work, etc. It's a bad, bad decision for him to be doing this imo.

But yes, some of us are defending Simmons's future value. Especially his future value with a lengthy contract already signed. And yes, I think it's totally reasonable to defend the value of Simmons as a prospect who just turned 25 and has a lot of tools in his kit. Playoff teams aren't likely to be interested, which is certainly fair, but he's got obvious things that raise a non-playoff team's floor imo. If you disagree, that's totally reasonable. As mentioned above, the character questions and confidence questions certainly make it debatable that the value of the skills he has will be worth it for a trade partner.

I also don't think it's "so invested" if guys choose blow off some steam by logging onto a message board to debate a unique prospect and unique situation, lol. But whatever.

>I also don't think it's "so invested" if guys choose blow off
>some steam by logging onto a message board to debate a unique
>prospect and unique situation, lol. But whatever.

this, along with "it ain't that deep/serious", "you spend all this time..." are all variants of the same basic tact. It's a non-point.

If you're so much as lurking on a board somewhere and that thought even crosses your mind, it's entirely self-defeating.

And of course he is.

But you can’t say he’s some empty all star. That is ridiculous. Have their been bullshit all stars? Of course! But of them how many are 3 time all stars? And of those how many are all defensive teams multiple times? Oh, and of those how many are all NBA?

Ben is properly rated. He is an excellent player who is limited and who should expand his game. But to act like he’s suddenly absolute trash is the most Philly shit ever.

He's scared to shoot in the fourth and doesn't have a three point shot or really any shot to be honest when it's crunch time AND he's a 60% free throw shooter on top of that.

Look at what Giannis went out and did. He AT LEAST showed up when it was time regardless of the numbers.

We get to caught up with all star appearances and accolades. What about just what our eyes tell us?

This dude needs to be gone. He needs a wakeup call.

and ...he isn't my coworker?

taking the emotional position of "but what if I were seth curry, how would I feel then?" seems weird to me

you can have an opinion on dude that doesn't mean imagining you are a professional basketball player


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Having a PG that can be fouled intentionally in crunch time like Shaq .......like shaq!

are comical and obviously have limited basketball knowledge.

shoot the damn ball

great regular season player but crunch time in the playoffs he's wack.

I hope they sit his ass until they get a decent offer
demanding a trade with 4 yrs on his contract after THAT last series

can't have a player afraid to shoot or be aggressive on offense in the NBA now

I am curious what in the world Philly is going to do to remedy that glaring hole for starting point guard position going forward assuming Simmons actually sticks to his guns. Pretty important given the top level point guard play in the league at the moment and the fact the East has gotten more competitive among the top level teams.

Common sense should have led the Sixers to making some kind of change this off-season a lot sooner. Doesn't make much sense to me to roll out the same line up for the most part (to my knowledge, the only somewhat substantive change they made was losing Howard and getting Drummond), same coaching staff, and the same front office folks and expect different results, especially given how the East has gotten more competitive like I said before in my response.

this is the second player to lose all confidence in his shot.

That shit is weird.

https://www.mediaite.com/sports/doc-rivers-references-trump-election-conspiracy-theorists-when-asked-about-ben-simmons-wanting-out-on-msnbc/

“There’s times that I think we’re getting through,” Rivers acknowledged. “And there’s times that I think that I’m talking to people who still believe Trump won the election. So I’m not sure, but I’m going to keep trying.”

The way to convince a "young socialite" to come back is definitely to compare him to fascists.

Good grief Doc get out of your own way

Simmons and his team are delusional.

Fuck it.. nothing else has worked

How can anyone take Simmons side or have sympathy for this dude is beyond me.

Instead of saying very dumb things publicly.

But what do I know

I though we like coaches who were "straight talkers"

Interesting how this works

Doc is being stupid. These are easy questions that he’s blowing. Its really not that hard to answer these but he’s making it impossible to defend him.

But hey go ahead and defend him. I’ll wait.

he fucked up and now it looks like he is about to lose a nice chunk of change.

he fucked up and I don’t see why anyone should treat him with kid gloves when he has 4 years and $100+ mill left on his contract.

>How can anyone take Simmons side or have sympathy for this
>dude is beyond me.

Exactly. I see many are using this story to bash philly as usual.
The whole city has begged Ben just to be aggressive and shoot, make or miss. That's all they've asked since he got drafted

publicly demanding a trade after that series is crazy,
good luck to him
like someone said, trade him to Minnesota or Sac where there's no pressure. Put up those Regular season stats and hit Cancun early every year.

Not sure he's mentally tough enough to be a leader on a contender at this point in his career

Who gives a fuck about Philly? Like I can say A LOT about Philly and The Process but I won’t.

But seriously who gives a shit about a franchise that hasn’t won a title in nearly 40 years. Honestly. I’m asking.

>Who gives a fuck about Philly? Like I can say A LOT about
>Philly and The Process but I won’t.
>
>But seriously who gives a shit about a franchise that hasn’t
>won a title in nearly 40 years. Honestly. I’m asking.

For someone that doesn't give shit on the topic you sure have a lot to say. Go ahead and defend Simmons, who reportedly has refused to even meet with his teammates this week. He can't even look his teammates in the eye and tell them what's up. That's weak no matter what you or anyone says.

Nationally philly sports has gotten a bad rep in the media and its not really justified imo. But go on talking about a franchise and its players you don't give a fuck about

link: https://sixerswire.usatoday.com/2021/10/01/report-sixers-not-paying-ben-simmons-8-25-million-check-owed-to-him/

swipe:

The Philadelphia 76ers and Ben Simmons have been in a statement recently as the Sixers begin training camp for the 2021-22 season. Simmons has yet to report as he continues his holdout for the trade he has requested and the situation continues to get ugly.

With Simmons due $8.25 million of his contract on Friday, the Sixers have taken the first step of his punishment for not showing up to work. The Sixers will not pay Simmons this installment of his check in an effort to get him to at least show up to work.

Per Shams Charania, Simmons fully understands the ramifications of his actions and he will still holdout until he gets his trade.

It appears that this will continue on for a little while longer as the Sixers still want to try and bring him back at least for a little bit. The trade market is not there at the moment and they want him to at least be with the team. This refusal to pay him is the first step towards that goal of bringing him to the team.

You don't trade him for peanuts just because the season hasn't started. You fine the shit out of him and wait until the Trade Deadline when teams historically are more inclined to get desperate and stars ae more inclined to turn down extensions and/or request trades.

Sucks that it's come to this, but now that it has, waiting is easily the best move.

I don't care that deeply about the whole situation outside of seeing how it'll resolve itself, but seeing that $8 million dollar figure in that headline was eye grabbing, and I had to post it in this thread.

I am amazed at how ugly this situation has gotten though. I am morbidly curious to see and hear how loudly Sixers fan will react to Simmons hitting a Sixers basketball court, inside or outside of wearing a Sixers uniform.

because YOU sucked, and Coach didn’t verbally felate you anyway.

I suppose this is the right move for the Sixers - but I am surprised that Ben is not reporting and seemingly willing to lose millions, if not the full year's salary, to not have awkward conversations with teammates.

I dunno, if I wanted to get out of my job, I wouldn't be willing to take half my salary cause my colleagues dont like me.

guys weren't traded until their "contract year" when they had only 1 year left of their deal. As far as I can remember Harden was the first guy traded with multiple years left on his contract opening the door to a new level of "player empowerment" were guys can demand trades even if they just signed a 5-year contract extension a year before.

Obviously, Kawhi was a free-agent at the time, but him telling the Clippers that he'd only go there if they traded for Paul George (George had re-upped with OKC for four more years the previous summer) put the league on this path.

The "player empowerment" is going to get put to a test with the Simmons situation though. I'm guessing the Sixers will blink first and trade him to some one.

Harden’s deal technically had three left but the last year was a player option, so if the player’s not content, it means next to nothing— especially for older players. Ben’s 25 with four years left guaranteed. It’s probably the craziest situation in terms of trying to pressure his way out that a player with this length of contact has ever displayed. People were, as you correctly pointed out, pretty flabbergasted by the Harden situation. And that was *half as long* as the Simmons deal. It’s bonkers.

Ben starting to rethink the situation already. We not even to the start of the season yet. I thought he was in it for the long haul. Glad the 76ers haven't blinked. You don't get strong armed into trading a player with 4 years on a contract

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1447574714134712331?s=20

Sixers officials and Klutch CEO Rich Paul have progressed in talks over recent days on a resolution to bring All-Star Ben Simmons back to Philadelphia in the near future, sources tell ESPN. Discussions are ongoing.

booed in philly and clowned in arenas around the league*

i'm looking forward to it.

*if he doesn't come into the season with a jump shot.

as he should

opening night will be a must watch now

The best reason for him to stick it out was that he'd already gone ao far. He had no leverage with 4 seasons left, especially after such a disastrous playoff performance.

It was a perfect storm of factors against him, and a win for him here was a longshot at best.

All the clowning is whatever. It means very little in the grand scheme of things, unless he's even more sensitive than it appears.

Hopefully he develops a chip on his shoulder and goes out and kills it from here. He's a special player and I'd rather see guys like thatmake good on their potential.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1447763247948603393

nigga did some of that andrew wiggins research.

It's fun to clown...but I legit think he's got some mental health issues that need to be addressed

Reports are saying he just showed up
No call
No notice
Just a text, to Brand, from Klutch
...Ben is outside the building...

Like dude thought he could just walk in the building before tip and have his mom call the boss

He's touched.

first time being held accountable. Didn't happen at LSU. When the money starts disappearing all the cosigns (and cosigners) go away.

A mere child, especially compared to the majority of the folks posting on this message board. Don't get me wrong, I think this whole situation was poorly handled by all parties and Ben definitely created any potential drama that will ensue this season among himself and Doc and his teammates as well, but I wouldn't go so far as to think something is mentally wrong with the dude.

I hope Simmons will be able to block out some of the derision the fans will give him because I'm almost certain the Sixers fans will make him a convenient scapegoat if and when things go awry.

somebody needs to pull him in and get in his ear outside of his family and tell how to do things the right way.

2021 playoffs checking in
We were the 1 seed
We lost in the 2nd round…again
Ben was the biggest reason
No scapegoat…fact.

Can you layout a scenario where he doesn’t get boo’d
I get the Philly fan trope…but this has nothing to do with the fans.
Reporting to camp so you don’t get fined =/= playing

Anything short of him addressing it directly and suiting up and playing…is not going to help his cause
He is the problem and anything coming his way IRT derision, is the result of his decisions.

Bruh threatened to sit out the whole season
Then shows up unannounced to a game a week later
Where they do that?

That’s on top of turtling and setting the record for worst playoff FT%

Something bigger is going on IMO

>2021 playoffs checking in
>We were the 1 seed
>We lost in the 2nd round…again
>Ben was the biggest reason
>No scapegoat…fact.
>
>Can you layout a scenario where he doesn’t get boo’d
>I get the Philly fan trope…but this has nothing to do with
>the fans.
>Reporting to camp so you don’t get fined =/= playing
>
>Anything short of him addressing it directly and suiting up
>and playing…is not going to help his cause
>He is the problem and anything coming his way IRT derision, is
>the result of his decisions.
>
>Bruh threatened to sit out the whole season
>Then shows up unannounced to a game a week later
>Where they do that?
>
>That’s on top of turtling and setting the record for worst
>playoff FT%


Both Simmons and the rest of the team have to attack this season with a different approach compared to the past since to my recollection, they didn't do much this off-season other than let Dwight Howard walk and pick up Andre Drummond. Simmons creating this whole drama definitely won't help in that regard and he definitely deserves any criticism that comes his way since he was the main one that cause the situation. I won't disagree with you there.

>Something bigger is going on IMO

I don't know the man personally, so I won't go in the ledge too strong, but I think a large part that factored into Simmons thinking was a ton of immaturity. I hope there isn't anything more than that, but I don't know his from a can of paint, so ultimately, what do I know?

a Mere Child

if 25 = a child
what age is an adult? what age can ppl hold him accountable for his actions with saying he's a child

I’m sure there is a reason for his behavior in those numbers up there..

but being 25 is not an excuse.

In my opinion, I think Simmons is being very immature in how he's dealing with things in Philly. I don't think he's touched or something is wrong with him mentally.

he finally had someone tell him “Hell No”

Prolly had plans for that $8 mill and seeing it not hit the account made him accountable.

Go to work and get paid young man.

It appears he is having mental issues. Wonder if he's taking steps to address this.

I hope this isn't the case of Ben calling wolf just to stay away from the Sixers.

Still remains to be seen how he actually deals with this but yikes

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10014958-report-ben-simmons-possible-covid-exposure-before-hawks-game-7-questioned-by-76ers

I know what the article says
That’s not how it’s being spun in Philly
They’re saying he tried to use a fake Covid positive to get out of game 7
We’re probably stuck with him
…and he probably needs to step away from the nba…
Dude’s off.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32430529/philadelphia-76ers-suspend-ben-simmons-their-season-opener

Their home opener (Nets) on Friday cannot come soon enough.

https://youtu.be/zHVkXe_EE64

to stand firm, it would set a bad precedent to allow a player to force a trade with that many years on his deal.

It started last year with Harden being traded with 2 years left.

Before players were only traded in their "contract year" with a year left on their deals.

Now you have dude's with brand new extensions demanding trades. I'm all for player empowerment but this next CBA negotiation will be ugly.

Philly's helping Nerlens Noel in his lawsuit against Rich Paul. And Morey's already been known as a stubborn dude with a big ego who marches to the beat of his own drum. So even *without* the other GMs supporting this, he probably wants to ship Simmons to play in the worst possible destination on some purely petty shit too.

There's a *lot* of stuff going on that doesn't even really involve Simmons as a player, lol. Which, of course, makes it especially stupid for Simmons to try this with *these* people-- people like Morey and Rivers absolutely don't cater to this shit, lol.

The agents and unions are too strong, plus the individual star power
of the player.

Just like with Kyrie, the Union and other players will support.

As much as I hate Ben Simmons’ game, his own coach basically said he
didn’t want him and the organization was trying to trade him during
the summer.

He does have a proper grievance.

However, he does risk being blackballed when he is retired, where
he doesn’t get looked at for nba jobs or TV positions....just ask
Oscar Robertson. They will do the same thing in baseball...that’s their form
of revenge.

Randy Moss had an attitude AND a WV accent and still made on TV.. lol

but IMO Simmons doesn’t seem like he has much to offer at the moment as a player or anything else.

Randy was just a knucklehead at times, and made up
for it In New England

Had he kept the attitude and personality he had in Oakland, where he
stopped playing or caring about the game,
he would have definitely been blackballed.

Just look at TO...never changed and was eventually blackballed.

its not like he is at the end of his career.

He is having his knucklehead moment.

He can still recover if he gets his head on straight or starte over somewhere else in a few years.

sympathy.

if i'm rich paul i'm pissed because dude is not marketable right now and may be never be.

it's also a mystery if ben actually cares about any of this (including the game of basketball). he strikes me as the type who has cruised though his basketball life thanks to his god given gifts (mainly his height and length) and now that he's being held accountable he has no interest in breaking out of his sheltered comfort zone.

>he strikes me as the type
>who has cruised though his basketball life thanks to his god
>given gifts (mainly his height and length) and now that he's
>being held accountable he has no interest in breaking out of
>his sheltered comfort zone.

This is exactly what I see.

Ben is shit on offense, but he was always available and never missed
anything.

During all that time when Embid was injured and missing games,
Ben was there. And they had their greatest run when Embid wasn’t
in the lineup for weeks.


Plus they shopped this dude during the entire offseason, then
flipped their tune because they weren’t going to get the value
they wanted in return.


This is on philly , 100 percent.

I see the angle of trying to blame the Sixers for trying to trade him this season - but why was that?

maybe because he has the most laughable offensive scoring game in the entire NBA for a starting point guard? I truly mean that. he is the worst starter in the NBA scoring the basketball. he is not worth his contract at all. if he wasnt so bad at progressing his game and learning his weaknesses, the Sixers would absolutely have not acted in this fashion.

like someone already said, he has just coasted thru his bball life off his talent and never got told no and now that he has a mirror in front of him he folds like a lawn chair. absolving his responsibility as a professional athlete who gets paid top dollar is laughable considering how bad his game has progressed.

Just would take full possessions off, not give a shit. So it's clear that checking out mentally and not giving a shit are in his DNA...

... but he literally went from "bad college defender" to "one of the five best defenders in the NBA" in, like, three years. So it's pretty clear what can happen when dude is engaged with something.

It's just a real question mark how to keep him consistently engaged. He needs a good organization to really unlock that... and he and Paul have made it impossible for him to be traded to a good organization.

A really, really tough situation. He could rectify it so quickly by playing and trying his hardest. Otherwise, he's in for a lot of sitting, a lot of suspensions, and all of his desired destinations not wanting to touch him with a ten-foot pole. I'm one of the biggest advocates for Ben the Player on this board, and even I would think long and hard before moving for him if I was on any team with any immediate aspirations of winning. And even tanking teams have to worry that Simmons will just play like passive shit the rest of his contract if they don't have a chance at the playoffs (although a tanking team is almost certainly where Ben will end up before the trade deadline).

If he'd shown the resilience to spend the offseason working hard, come back to Philly with a smile despite the post-season press comments made about him, and play hard those first 10-15 games, I genuinely believe a good team would've made a move for him and his upside. Now his reputation is toast and he's going to end up in some terrible organization. Really feels like he's sabotaged himself by doing this.

>sympathy.
>
>if i'm rich paul i'm pissed because dude is not marketable
>right now and may be never be.
>
>it's also a mystery if ben actually cares about any of this
>(including the game of basketball). he strikes me as the type
>who has cruised though his basketball life thanks to his god
>given gifts (mainly his height and length) and now that he's
>being held accountable he has no interest in breaking out of
>his sheltered comfort zone.


I don't have sympathy for Simmons because it's quite clear he played a big part in creating this debacle, but I don't agree with accusing him of not caring about basketball. He plays defense at too high a level for that to apply IMO. In my eyes, it takes focus and some level of intent to play top level wing defense in the NBA. I will agree that he does have problems being held accountable for his offensive shortfalls, which is pretty sad given that he could become such a beast of a player if he had the threat of being a scorer on some level.

What a fascinating situation all around.

no confidence at all

but playing defense at a high level is pretty easy when you have size and talent. x

>but playing defense at a high level is pretty easy when you
>have size and talent. x

... until you remember all the players with terrific size and talent in the NBA who range from shit to mediocre on defense, lol.

Simmons has a genuinely super high basketball IQ. That's why he can convert his size and talent into elite defense. But I agree, his confidence in his shot is... well, shot. He needs a new start at a good organization to get him on track.

Good thing every great NBA organization is knocking down his door to trade for him right now!

>sympathy.
>
>if i'm rich paul i'm pissed because dude is not marketable
>right now and may be never be.
>
>it's also a mystery if ben actually cares about any of this
>(including the game of basketball). he strikes me as the type
>who has cruised though his basketball life thanks to his god
>given gifts (mainly his height and length) and now that he's
>being held accountable he has no interest in breaking out of
>his sheltered comfort zone.

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1450505250201288710

jojo sick and tired of being sick and tired.

dude is furious

and I feel him.

Its like having a little brother who always fucks up a good time with a bitch fest

I’d shoot the ball as soon as I get the rebound from whatever spot that might be.
Full court, half court, don’t matter.
I’m not even passing the ball inbound, just shooting from out of bounds.

"You're going to think I'm kidding. I'm not. This could take four years... We're in the prime of Joel's career... Every day, we are going to expect Ben Simmons to be back here, or we trade him for a difference maker."

LMAO! Morey Dogg with absolutely zero fucks to give, giving public notice to Simmons, Paul, and Co. that Ben's indifference and injury-faking tactics won't result in anything other than a sea of forfeited money and a shattering of public good will.

Morey absolutely won't be trading him for scraps. I said it at the top of this post, and it should be crystal clear to everyone now. Might not even trade him for picks at this point, unless it's enough picks that Morey can flip those picks for a valuable asset. He'd genuinely rather sit on Simmons for three years and trade his expiring than give him up for someone that doesn't move the needle for the Sixers. And you know for a fact that Morey isn't publicly saying all this unless Rivers and Embiid are both 100% in on this plan.

What a colossal misplay by Simmons and Paul. They *truly* picked the wrong motherfuckers, man. It's incredible to see. If Simmons wants to dig his heels in and keep going down this road, he may not see a basketball court until he's nearly 30.

Players always win.

AD, Kawhi, Harden, and eventually Ben Simmons.

and the fact that he felt the need to send that message,
let’s you know the pressure is on

He isn’t the owner, and if this shit goes south he could find himself
out of job.....

not players who just signed a contract last year.

Name the last player who forced his way out with 4 years left on his contract?
all those players had 1 year left I believe
The owners aren't going to just start letting players demand trades with 4 years left

I doubt Morey is saying this without the backing of ownership

Ben fucked this up big time and the 76ers don't seem like they're going to make a trade to just to make a move

Plus a completely different situation. Harden was an MVP. Houston was moving into a tank, not trying to contend. And, oh yeah, Harden was actually playing games.

Morey absolutely wouldn't say this without Rivers, Embiid, and the ownership on his side. And it's very clear from the social media response that the city of Philly supports this too.

I thought Harden had the more than 1 year
and like you said completely different

MVP player not wanting to be part of a rebuild > Ben getting his feelings hurt because coach told him to get better/shoot the damn ball

to win.

ben wants to leave the team that can pay him the most money on the reup *and* gives him the best chance to win.

dude is really on some lose lose shit just to soothe his hurt feelings.

Every superstar who demanded a trade, eventually got it.

Back in the days when there was no free agency, Kareem threatened
to sit out several seasons if he didn’t get traded to LA.

Wilt Chamberlain did the same thing when he was in Philly.

And did you forget about Vince Carter, who faked injury
after injury until he was eventually traded to Jersey?
He still had years on his contract.

I don’t care how many years are left on Ben’s contract or what support Morey
has, players eventually get their trade demands met....

This one will be no different... He will not be a sixer beyond this season.

>Every superstar who demanded a trade, eventually got it.

Not what I asked. I asked, who was the last player with 4 Years left the contract who demanded a trade.
Ben's not a superstar. Very good player, Superstars don't pass the ball in 4th quarters of game 7's because he's scared to shoot. Can't believe you called him a superstar lol

>Back in the days when there was no free agency, Kareem
>threatened
>to sit out several seasons if he didn’t get traded to LA.
>
>Wilt Chamberlain did the same thing when he was in Philly.


>
>And did you forget about Vince Carter, who faked injury
>after injury until he was eventually traded to Jersey?
>He still had years on his contract.

Did Vince hold out, get thrown out of practices, fined/team suspensions? Did Wilt and Kareem hold out? That was before my time


>
>I don’t care how many years are left on Ben’s contract or
>what support Morey
>has, players eventually get their trade demands met....

Yes he'll get a traded eventually but my main point is the league wont let this become the norm. They won't let a player hold an organization hostage like he's trying. I bet the next CBA will try to address situations like these


>This one will be no different... He will not be a sixer beyond
>this season.

I definitely believe they will not make a trade just to get rid of him

he isn’t Kareem or Wilt or even a Vince Carter.

Dude is liability on offense.

The moment Ben Simmons showed up at the facility the Sixers screamed “Gotcha Bitch!!”

The org and city debased itself for years supporting Ben hoe ass until they couldn’t anymore. Bring your ass to work with a good attitude, start shooting jumpers and repay the egregious support they have given you by rebuilding your value so you can get the exit you want.

And until then fine his ass for every single game and practice that he misses. Dont give him a fucking dime.

Simmons is a bitch and his camp looks like a bunch of morons. I'd ruin his career before I traded him for pennies on the dollar.

they got an mvp caliber big man in his prime that needs to win now and this seesaw soap opera shit does nothing but distract the team and fuck up their focus.

im not even sure what the end game is anymore. is morey playing hardball to make simmons relent and join the team? it seems like it. otherwise they would do what other teams have done when a trade is imminent. give that nigga paid time off then ship his ass to the highest bidder.

his trade value damn sure aint increasing through this whole ordeal. shit its prolly plummeting. even if ben is a good piece for your team...who the hell wants to give up good players of value just to deal with *this* shit?

LOL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiFNrO33bSo

and advised them he is not mentally ready to play to his expectations now.

I'd say he'll be on the court before December.

going the mental health route to get moved, because there is no way to disprove
that unlike a physical injury.

He is no dummy and neither is his agent.

“The Sixers have been fining Simmons for missing games, practices and meetings -- nearing $2 million this season -- but there is a provision in the collective bargaining agreement that protects players' salaries for failing to render services "if such failure has been caused by the player's mental disability."

They can’t fine him while getting mental care

Go ahead and get that shit over with. What a baby

Addressing his mental health is the first thing that's made sense IMO
Every action he's taken since Game 7...contradicts his desire to be traded
He decided NOT to play for team AUS in the olympics where he could've jacked up as many shots as he wanted to improve his trade prospects
He decided NOT to report on time and play in the preseason where he could've jacked up as many shots as he wanted to improve his trade prospects
Add to that...the conduct detrimental situation...and now mentally unfit...
...dude is touched...and needs time away from the NBA...
If he really wants to be traded...he's going about it all wrong.

Get your head right

they should have played the mental health card right away after game 7 and cited a need for new settings etc.

this is straight up doofy

i feel bad for Ben now.

and daryl morey seemds like a fucking nerd with a vendetta

just take the L and keep it moving with Tyrese Maxey until another free agent comes along.


>For whatever reason I rewatched that post Game 7 press
>conference Doc gave and still can’t believe he answered a
>layup of a question so badly….but even worse is how Morey
>has completely and totally fucked this Ben Simmons trade.
>You’d think he’d have sold as high as possible, and
>somehow has lost any and all leverage in the process. Good for
>Ben for realizing that he doesn’t owe it to the Sixers to
>increase his value (not that Harden needed to, but he did go
>out and play) but whew what a damn mess.

to be booed and ridiculed every time he touches the ball. home and away.

i'm having a hard time giving ben naomi osaka levels of sympathy for this. i dunno, maybe i'm just a dick.

edit: IF this guy and his team are using mental health as a bullshit scapegoat excuse that's really fucked up and unfair to those with legit mental health issues. so fuck this guy (possibly).

If he'd come out and said that from the get go? Sure.

Now? EVEN if true? Really hard to swallow.

>to be booed and ridiculed every time he touches the ball.
>home and away.
>
>i'm having a hard time giving ben naomi osaka levels of
>sympathy for this. i dunno, maybe i'm just a dick.
>
>edit: IF this guy and his team are using mental health as a
>bullshit scapegoat excuse that's really fucked up and unfair
>to those with legit mental health issues. so fuck this guy
>(possibly).
>
>
.

with the sixers.

his sources are klutch (imo). i noticed people like jay and gilbert arenas are always pushing the klutch company line and masking it as impartial opinion/analysis (obviously they wouldnt be the only ones being megaphones for other self interested parties).

but yeah...klutch is prolly giving him the green light to say that. now that could mean that ben actually did blink first and realizes his best option is just playing. or it could mean that they just want it to be 'known' that ben actually wants to be on the floor...because that has ramifications for the legal/contract/cba stuff (as opposed to ben wanting to sit out which would violate whatever rules that apply).

Or teams that have peaked and whose window has shut.

That’s what makes this all so weird.

Philly was the 1 seed last year and this easily could’ve been their year.

doc didnt give a perfect answer (and lie) about ben being a championship pg and embiid held him accountable publicly.

otherwise hes on a perennial contender where he makes the most money possible and the organization and fan base have continually pampered him while he refuses to improve his glaring weaknesses.

hes literally leaving the best situation possible for him because his ego was bruised (by people telling the truth).

i cant believe people are out here defending this dumb shit.

trade talks…Philly would require Jaylen Brown in any deal.

lol

I can't imagine Boston actually doing this. It would be received so, so, SO poorly by the fanbase.

.

If Brad has even thought about this for longer than a second he should be fired.

You can't trade Jaylen Brown. I would love for it to happen to the Celtics just so their fans can suffer, but nah.

But 3 years ago, Ainge would have done this in a heartbeat lol.

It's pretty clear that Masai and Company are centering everything they're building around size and versatility. Of the top 11 guys in their rotation, only *two* of them are shorter than 6'5-- Van Vleet and Dragic-- and most of them are 6'7-6'9, all can pass some, most are defensively switchable, etc. Their rookies are Barnes, Banton, and Champagnie-- all versatile 6'6-6'7 dudes, lol. So their game plan for roster construction going forward is fairly obvious.

I'd also think that Philly would have a lot of interest in a package of Van Vleet, Dragic, and picks. A lot of ball handling and experience in the backcourt to bring in, a lot of shooting. I know Van Vleet and Curry are a bit redundant in terms of size and what they bring in terms of skill, but FVV has a toughness defensively and strength for his size that Curry really can't match tbh (and I love Curry). I also think FVV has All-Star upside playing alongside a guy like Embiid.

It may not be as sexy as Dame Lillard or whatever... but unlike Portland parting with Dame, I *do* think Toronto would see a lot of value in Ben, and I *do* think they'd be willing to part with a 19-5-7 guard who defends and an experienced PG for the playoffs to get ahold of someone like Ben who fits what they want to do. And adding FVV to the current roster definitely makes them a Top 2-3 seed in the East, minimum-- and adding Dragic to the roster would definitely help in the playoffs imo.

(Of course, this would raise the question, "Who the fuck shoots for Toronto?" lol. I'm not saying it's what I'd do, but I've got to think they're sort of showing their hand with their acquisitions and rookie deals this year. They would love nothing more than to roll out a Simmons-Anunoby-Barnes-Siakam-Achiuwa lineup and tell opposing teams "cool, try scoring on this." It's an interesting premise.)

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

… but I find it really hard to believe that a Portland blowup doesn’t start with Dame. I know he’s said he wants to be there— but is he gonna be stoked if Portland has to deal CJ, Nance, and picks for Ben Simmons? Won’t that just drive Dame out too?

I also think CJ is notably worse on defense than VanVleet. FVV is small, but he’s strong and works hard, whereas CJ is a huge net negative on that end.

I also Toronto has made it pretty clear that they’re trying to go all-size all-switchable all-length all-everything. So i bet they’re more likely to throw more pieces in— like FVV, Dragic, Boucher, picks, and maybe even Trent if Philly pushes. Toronto just seems like a place that will actually value Simmons in a similar way to Morey, whereas I don’t think Portland will at all.

https://streamable.com/bhp5kn

And I still felt terrible for him

With POR and WSH bottoming out before the AS break... I'd say Morey's plan to wait it out is working
SAC making statements about everyone is available...when Fox was initially off limits
ATL saying everyone other than Trae and Clint are available

If this dude moves Ben and Toe Bias before the offs...build him a statue

...and I still find the omission of Brand in alladis very interesting...

and are in PO contention. They just won 3 straight. Kings are now playing well
under Gentry and are near the play-in game, and are thinking about
actually building around Fox/ Halliburton.

Portland is his best shot, but even that might not be in play
because they might just let the kids play to see what they
can generate with Little/ Simons....Since he needs a wing/
guard in return, going after Nurkic and Convinton makes no
sense. CJ would be the true target but I can’t see Chauncey agreeing with
that. Or maybe he can get something going with Indiana for Levert....

He is now going to be forced to take what he can get. He is now
in desperate mode, with zero leverage....meanwhile Embid is killing
himself every night to keep Philly afloat.

I like Ja, just needs to make sure he is getting everyone involved on a nightly
basis as a PG. 6.8 dimes a game for a PG isn’t going to cut it. 8-9 is where he needs
to be. He is 14th in assists.

People out there pretending that Morey's desperation increases with each passing day are disproven at every turn. Morey's goal was always to wait for the deadline or maybe even wait until the offseason. Teams always get desperate for change at the deadline and at the offseason once the optimism of what this season could've been fades away.

I'd be *very* impressed if Tobias was moved. I don't really think that's an option at his price, but man, if they could finesse that for actual title team level pieces, then give him a GM of the Decade award.

Rumor has it that the Kings are thinking about keeping
Fox and Haliburton together since they are playing better under
Gentry. They are right there near the play-in game, and the team
is playing with more cohesion and discipline.

Now he has put himself in a situation where he is going to have
take whatever he can get.....

>Rumor has it that the Kings are thinking about keeping
>Fox and Haliburton together since they are playing better
>under
>Gentry. They are right there near the play-in game, and the
>team
>is playing with more cohesion and discipline.
>
>Now he has put himself in a situation where he is going to
>have
>take whatever he can get.....

aren't the Kings like 10 games under .500? The tanking teams in the west are actually battling to get out of that 10th spot lol...I don't see a Fox-Haliburton backcourt working, they're just trying to see what they have, that's why Bagley is getting PT

Portland/Sacramento are basically tied for the 10th seed
play-in game spot. And Bagley is getting tick because of
Gentry including him more in the offense. Walton didn’t like
Bagley.

Kings are actually playing better under Gentry, and Portland incredibly
is still afloat without CJ/ Lillard on the floor.

9.Minnesota
10.Portland
11.Sacramento

What makes you think Sacramento is tanking after going ham on the Lakers?
Sacramento plays strong every night and so does Portland.
And this year’s draft isn’t a deep one or strong one. None of those teams are
playing to tank this year......

>Portland/Sacramento are basically tied for the 10th seed
>play-in game spot. And Bagley is getting tick because of
>Gentry including him more in the offense. Walton didn’t
>like
>Bagley.
>
>Kings are actually playing better under Gentry, and Portland
>incredibly
>is still afloat without CJ/ Lillard on the floor.
>
>9.Minnesota
>10.Portland
>11.Sacramento
>
>What makes you think Sacramento is tanking after going ham on
>the Lakers?
>Sacramento plays strong every night and so does Portland.
>And this year’s draft isn’t a deep one or strong one. None
>of those teams are
>playing to tank this year......

The Lakers are not a good team, it’s LeBron and some dudes lol

Portland and Sacramento are not. Gentry and Billups
aren’t designed like that. Their teams are going to play hard every night.

Kings trashed the lakers, lost by 2 to the Cavs and beat the Heat by 2

That’s not tanking.

OKC and Houston are tanking.

Point is don’t be surprised if those teams don’t move anyone ....
and Morey is foolish for waiting this long to try and get something
for Simmons. Morey has no leverage with a player who isn’t
skilled and everyone knows he is in desperation mode.

And now he is trying to throw Harris in the mix. Good luck with
that.

.

Philly's now in the 5th slot.

In an odd way, their performance which is both better-than-expected but less-than-championship-contender makes it more favorable to Morey. If Philly was doing very well, pressure from the fan base or from the inside may have prompted Daryl into making a move, even if it wasn't the best move. And the same if the team were worse off.

Yes, he's in effect wasting a year of Embiid's prime. But the team likely wasn't going to win with Ben playing as he has in the past. His negative gravity on their offense seems to be the clear obstacle holding them back.

If it means he has to wait until next year, to get back a true-difference maker, I think he's perfectly comfortable waiting.

The problem is his asset isn’t worth what he is trying to get in return for it.

Simmons is a player with zero offensive skills, and will be a year
removed from playing. He isn’t getting a tier 1 player in return,
and possibly not even a tier 2 player if he waits until after the season.

Teams don’t need him. He needs them, because he has an asset who doesn’t
want to play for him, and that asset has low value.

He could have have gotten some great talent back before the beginning
of the season, but he told a lot of teams NO with their trade offers......

Either he moves him now and get it over with, or continue to face more
uncertainty, while Embid continues to carry a heavy load.

armchair GM's need to chill out.

Even if he desperately wants to trade Simmons by the trade deadline he's not going to come out and say it publicly because it would hurt his leverage in negotiations.

for Olive Harden, this summer.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ben-simmons-trade-rumors-76ers-prefer-to-wait-on-james-harden-or-other-star-in-offseason-per-report/

>for Olive Harden, this summer.

.

But honestly, to me it seems like Simmons is done in Philly and his stock is dwindling by the day.

It just sucks because Embiid has put together this incredible season, and he needs help.

I feel like a seasoned agent would have convinced Ben to say all the right things after the ATL series and return to Philly and just play even tho he’s disgruntled until they found a trade partner

Harden forced his way out of Houston the right way , showed up outta shape and disinterested but still put up numbers and voices his displeasure in post game interviews

Instead they went the cut off all communication and hold out route thinking Morey was some chump who’d cave

making his own decisions

Guys like Jerami Grant or Harrison Barnes do not move Philly into the realm of clear title contender, so why would they come off an asset like Simmons for a piece that doesn't get them truly closer to Embiid's and Morey's shared goal?

They just came out and said they're content to wait til the offseason. Certainly Lillard may be available then, as may Harden. Beal just said he's not signing an extension, there's another option. But yeah, you don't come off a 25-year-old former #1 pick All-Star, even a malcontent one, for 3-4 years of Jerami Grant that ties up a ton of money in a non-difference maker and relegates Embiid to perennial Eastern Conference Semis exits.

tl;dr: nothing's changed, lol. I think it was the right call then, it's still the right call now. Embiid's level of play this year doesn't alter the fact that the assets currently available almost certainly don't get Philly past the 4 seed.

Allegedly, he's refusing to include either Maxey or Thybulle in a deal for Beal.

I dunno, maybe he winds up making a breathtaking move for the ages and looks like a genius in the process.

But if he can end the Simmons Saga by getting Beal for the price of one of those cats, and he says no, he needs to be fired IMO.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nba-trade-rumors-sixers-wont-155306776.html

As the Sixers attempt to trade Ben Simmons for a star who actually wants to play in Philadelphia, it's well known around basketball fans that Daryl Morey's front office has a literal list of players who they'd accept in a deal.

Somewhere near the top of that list is Wizards star Bradley Beal, the ideal two-guard to pair with Joel Embiid. Beal is a bucket-getter of the highest degree, someone who can create at every level and gets his own offense at will.

But Beal has so far been reluctant to leave Washington, and the Wiz aren't eager to part with their only star, which would signal the acceptance of a complete rebuild rather than an ongoing retool.

READ: Simmons reportedly changed his COVID vaccine stance

And yet, with the Wizards toiling below .500 in the East and Beal approaching free agency this offseason, buzz around the league has shifted from "Beal is untouchable" to "Beal is untouchable... probably."

In a new story released Wednesday on The Athletic, long-time NBA insider David Aldridge reported a bunch of new information about the Beal situation in the nation's capital, including the Sixers' pursuit of the 28-year-old.

One nugget in particular jumped out, and might concern Sixers fans...

"Philadelphia has made no secret that Beal is on its short list of players for whom it would trade disgruntled guard Ben Simmons, who has sat out all season. But the 76ers won’t include an additional piece, such as exciting young guard Tyrese Maxey, along with Simmons in a potential trade for Beal, per league sources. Philly has similarly held firm that it won’t put third-year forward Matisse Thybulle, a terrific wing defender, in a Simmons package."

Morey isn't interested in adding Matisse Thybulle to a deal that would return Bradley freakin' Beal?

That's... not ideal.

Thybulle is one of the league's best defenders at 24 years old, a springy athlete who is a cult hero in Philadelphia sports fandom and a great guy to have on your team. I get it.

MORE: Want to believe in these Sixers? They're giving you some good reasons

But if you have to part with someone like Thybulle in order to land someone like Beal, you do it every time. You do it twice if you have to. This is non-negotiable.

Unless the Wizards' demands beyond Simmons and Thybulle are also unreasonable, Morey should not be hesitating about sending Thybulle to Washington. He just shouldn't.

Joel Embiid is currently playing at the highest level of his career. He's the odds-on favorite to win MVP. You have no clue how long he'll be able to keep up this level of play. Right now, with the Sixers in the No. 2 seed in the East and Embiid as elite as he's ever been, this is your championship window. You're sitting in it.

A Simmons, Thybulle, and picks-for-Beal swap still might not be enough to do it for Washington. But if that's really one of the main hang ups for Morey? I'm a little concerned.

Because that's a no-brainer.

I would say hell naw, too!

Maxey has evolved and is a baller and Matisse is a defensive
beast, and is the best defender on the team....

Beal is very overrated, not all that efficient, and can’t defend shit.

I would do Ben for Beal straight up, but that’s it.

Anything else and they can EAD

with big time potential for an underachieving “superstar” who may not even resign with your team. Look at what happened with Butler. Sixers did everything they could to resign him and he bounced. Sixers should be rewarding their home grown talent who bust their ass every night.

I get the appeal of Beal, but I’m definitely not giving up Maxey, Thybelle, and Simmons for Beal. Also, isn’t Beal requesting a super max deal in the $45+ million a year range? Yeah, no.

situation

If Beal wants to go to Philly, Washington can get Simmons and picks… or Washington can wait until this off-season, Beal can still go to Philly, and Washington can get absolutely nothing.

Morey knows the game he’s playing.

That first game back is going to be so intense . I fully expect the game to be halted over a projectile from the stands .



>For whatever reason I rewatched that post Game 7 press
>conference Doc gave and still can’t believe he answered a
>layup of a question so badly….but even worse is how Morey
>has completely and totally fucked this Ben Simmons trade.
>You’d think he’d have sold as high as possible, and
>somehow has lost any and all leverage in the process. Good for
>Ben for realizing that he doesn’t owe it to the Sixers to
>increase his value (not that Harden needed to, but he did go
>out and play) but whew what a damn mess.

that recent article that came about Doc not showing up to the gym he works at? dude is such a baby.

i know people who like him more than mcnabb to this day.

“I’ll knock the chunky Campbell soup out of that fool” lol

Philly loves any athlete that plays big while hurt

>Philly loves any athlete that plays big while hurt

Win-win trade, but keeping Maxey/Thybulle is a W

Imagine if he'd dealt Ben for McCollum or Hield/Barnes or some nonsense, lol.

dude is a monster.

But with a stronger perimeter attack with Harden. I know everyone likes Milwaukee, but this team is going to be a problem. Nobody matches up with Embiid.

I was a kid and first started watching basketball during those years. Very accurate comparison down to Hakeem and Joel being shooting African big men. Lol

Philly is in the top 10 defensively...and they have a guy who is unguardable on the block, surronded by shooters. That was Houston's formula. The fact that they are both African is besides the point.

This is the most active post the board has had in some time so...

(But yeah clearly he did well here)

Simmons hasnt played and was never going to play this year. They literally added one of the best scorers of all time...without losing an active player. Crazy how well it paid off for the Sixers not to give in.

imagine if they would have listened to internet GM's saying trade for Brogdon, Hield or anyone just to do the deal.

People are celebrating in Philly today
Can't wait for Ben's first game in Philly (March 10th). I know he'll miss it but he'll have to come back and play one day

Throwing shots after Ben left like a keyboard warrior.

And if anyone is a “hoe” in the situation it’s not the current MVP frontrunner. At this point Ben is the definition of hoe, ya know? Dude deserves soooo much shit.

He has had zero issue talking about it for the last ten months. Before Simmons was traded.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/sixers/joel-embiid-rips-ben-simmons-again-point-i-dont-care-about-man-suspension-game

https://www.hotnewhiphop.com/joel-embiid-takes-a-shot-at-ben-simmons-news.147408.html

just want to point out
My C is so good...he just broke the stigma of marquee players not wanting to play in Philly
We just got a top 10 player that could have picked any destination
Beard is coming to Philly because of Jo
EMVPiid.

Definitely worked out for Harden...he gets to go play with Embiid in MVP form,

and Simmons gets to go play with two of the best players on the planet without really having to be anything other than what he has been...

Morey got value for Simmons, and Klutch Sports got their troubled client out of a bad situation into a potentially great situation.


Now the back office stuff is done, it all plays out on the court (and in the locker room).

I cannot wait until the Beard is holding the ball at the 3 point line staring down Krazy Irving in Philadelphia with those fans losing their mind

*edit, competitive rivalry with a real juicy plot etc. not the regular skirmish here and there


>Definitely worked out for Harden...he gets to go play with
>Embiid in MVP form,
>
>and Simmons gets to go play with two of the best players on
>the planet without really having to be anything other than
>what he has been...
>
>Morey got value for Simmons, and Klutch Sports got their
>troubled client out of a bad situation into a potentially
>great situation.
>
>
>Now the back office stuff is done, it all plays out on the
>court (and in the locker room).

Care to elaborate?
What was bad about his situation in Philly?
Drafted #1 overall
Sat his rookie year with an injury
Starting PG
ROTY
All-star
All-defense
Max Contract extension
... without being held accountable for a lack of developing on offense...

I know Klutch went H.A.M. the past 6 months with leaks...but people can't be that easily influenced...?

What was bad about his situation in Philly?

he flaked out. that was what was bad,

and the base of the problem in what that represented for Klutch and Simmons - damage to future earnings.


Simmons is responsible for making it a bad situation. Is that what you needed to hear?

Klutch managed this and was able to get him to a location where he can at least attempt to undue the damage he has done to his career arc and the earnings it could garner.

Now that he has gotten past going back to Philly, let's see what happens. If he burns out in Brooklyn, it can't be put on his agents...they got his ass out of Philly to a team that is going to make a run at the trophy. He could be chilling in Portland about to tank for the next three years.

>just want to point out
>My C is so good...he just broke the stigma of marquee players
>not wanting to play in Philly
>We just got a top 10 player that could have picked any
>destination
>Beard is coming to Philly because of Jo
>EMVPiid.

that Philly has learned how to play winning basketball w/o Ben being in the lineup. And now they will have Harden in the mix. EmVPiid indeed

Jo...in a playful manner... really challenged both Maxey and Thybulle... even publicly sometimes

One thing that can't be quantified is Jo's growth and maturity as a leader

and Maxey responded in a real way
Upped his 3% by 10 points

I'm excited for this kid to move back to his natural 2 and learn some tricks for the bag from one of the best scorers of a generation

A couple of weeks ago we were .5GB...blew my mind
I don't think we'd get far in the offs without this move
But yeah, absolute testiment to the locker room keeping a 1 seed in striking distance through alladis

https://twitter.com/kyleneubeck/status/1501262023765544960?s=10

Shittt, he lost 19 milli!

Ain’t no one going to just walk away from that

RECOUP!!

if folks throw stuff at Ben Simmons while he's sitting on the bench for the upcoming game. Hopefully Sixers security will cordon off the Brooklyn bench area so that doesn't occur.

What a bitch

entitled and expects to prosper by doing the least amount of work possible. the path of least resistance by all means necessary.

i just really, really hope he's not lying about/exaggerating his mental health situation.

but yeah, he's the player we deserve in 2022.

are people really mad that he's tryna recoup his money?

that is some hoe ass shit.

and again, there are no quotes in the article. its just speculation.

I hope the basketball Gods give us that Philly vs Brooklyn first round series...

we need it

>https://twitter.com/kyleneubeck/status/1501262023765544960?s=10

and agreed on that series. If Adam Silver ever wanted to 'David Stern' something, now is the time.

https://mobile.twitter.com/APOOCH/status/1118984376057049088/photo/1


They saw the same $hit Philly fans were complaining about 3 years ago...

He's literally just showing up to sit on the bench to try to get some "evidence" for his grievance. What a hoe ass dude. Cant stand Simmons. He just said a couple weeks ago it wasnt about the fans. Lmao

granted, harden gone harden.

but for now, looking good.

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

People getting hot takes from ESPN sound like maga bros regurgitating faux news talking points

Even the trade works for both teams contingent gets an L

Morey Da Gawd!

PLAY THE SONG.

not shocking what harden is doing in Philly.

he was motivated and did the same thing in Bk when he got here. Good for philly.

in real time
Understandable for Windy being that Bron made him.
But to see ‘journalists’ run with this one sided narrative was really f’d up
Sixers FO couldn’t make public statements because of possible tampering
and even though sixers fans like myself tried to provide insight based on what we saw
The avalanche of BS was hard to break through

Little Ben hasn’t played against NBA players in almost 9 months
Chose not to play in the Olympics
and is still doing solo workouts

Not surprised at all that he’s not playing
and I think the right call would have been sitting out the season to get his head straight

But thanks for Harden.

Yes, this is obviously reactionary and premature.

It does seem to just be a much better fit for both teams - at least on paper. We'll see how Ben plays.

The initial diagnosis was Philly won short term for this year, Nets in the long term / next year

But last night was a statement.

Nets are still a question mark because of Kyrie but in starting the two guys they received for Harden in this game and then having plenty shooters off the bench plus Clax (not even Aldridge), they just seemed to address any weaknesses they had last year and early this year

Nash / Durant had a great game plan to address Embiid / Harden by fouling Embiid and not fouling Harden had executed great defensively.

The fact that the Nets could double team with abandon because the Sixers didn't have shooters kind of exposed them

Can Doc adjust? absolutely. But then add in Simmons' potential contributions I think it's clear Nets front office clearly did a solid job in getting the trade done

you honestly think Seth, Drummond, and the idea of ben Simmons being a fully functioning basketball player fixes all that?

>The initial diagnosis was Philly won short term for this
>year, Nets in the long term / next year

It's just hard to assess too much from one game. Philly's offense with Harden/Embiid has looked great for the most part. I think there's a very clear world in which they "win" this year and maybe next... but having Simmons, Curry, and picks?? When Harden could've left anyway? People point out correctly that the Sixers wanted to get Simmons moved as quickly as possible... but the Nets also needed to move Harden. And that's a hell of a come up for a team that could've just lost Harden in the offseason anyway.

How does that improve his deficiencies?
I’m wondering how he injured his back TBH…but I digress
His defender will play off him
Rie and KD will see double teams before they get the ball
He’ll be intentionally fouled and turtle

It’s entertaining watching people project the same expectations
While calling Philly fans terrible people for holding Little Ben accountable for not meeting those expectations

Y’all gone learn (if he even plays)

imagine what Simmons will do to him

>How does that improve his deficiencies?
>I’m wondering how he injured his back TBH…but I digress
>His defender will play off him
>Rie and KD will see double teams before they get the ball
>He’ll be intentionally fouled and turtle
>
>It’s entertaining watching people project the same
>expectations
>While calling Philly fans terrible people for holding Little
>Ben accountable for not meeting those expectations
>
>Y’all gone learn (if he even plays)

Yes, imagine
That’s my point
Sixers fans ‘imagined’ for 5 years
Imagine a world where your PG
…that hasn’t played pro ball in 9 months…
Currently isn’t cleared for 5 on 5 practice
won’t shoot
Turtles at the line
and your team still scores 130PPG
Good luck with that

Yes he’s mentally injured on the offensive side of the ball

But he’s still a demon on the other end who is capable of shutting down everyone on an opposing roster except Embid and Giannis

That’s why we neeeeed this series first round

Edit I don’t buy any of the injury reports , he’s fine


>Yes, imagine
>That’s my point
>Sixers fans ‘imagined’ for 5 years
>Imagine a world where your PG
>…that hasn’t played pro ball in 9 months…
>Currently isn’t cleared for 5 on 5 practice
>won’t shoot
>Turtles at the line
>and your team still scores 130PPG
>Good luck with that

>Yes he’s mentally injured on the offensive side of the
>ball
>
>But he’s still a demon on the other end who is capable of
>shutting down everyone on an opposing roster except Embid and
>Giannis

I see you're back on the bandwagon now but lets not get carried away lol

Ben's a great defender but I don't know about him "shutting down everyone on an opposing roster" I think Beal and Trae both averaged like 30 vs the Sixers in the playoffs last year

I think Brooklyn's D will be good but I'm interested to see what their offense looks like with Ben. KD likes to handle the ball himself at the top of the key a lot, when he does that where will Ben go? to the post? Can Nash coach like that?

I just think Ben Simmons is an excellent defender and rebounder , that's it


>>Yes he’s mentally injured on the offensive side of the
>>ball
>>
>>But he’s still a demon on the other end who is capable of
>>shutting down everyone on an opposing roster except Embid
>and


>>Giannis
>
>I see you're back on the bandwagon now but lets not get
>carried away lol
>
>Ben's a great defender but I don't know about him "shutting
>down everyone on an opposing roster" I think Beal and Trae
>both averaged like 30 vs the Sixers in the playoffs last year
>
>I think Brooklyn's D will be good but I'm interested to see
>what their offense looks like with Ben. KD likes to handle the
>ball himself at the top of the key a lot, when he does that
>where will Ben go? to the post? Can Nash coach like that?

>I just think Ben Simmons is an excellent defender and
>rebounder , that's it
>
>
>>>Yes he’s mentally injured on the offensive side of the
>>>ball
>>>
>>>But he’s still a demon on the other end who is capable of
>>>shutting down everyone on an opposing roster except Embid
>>and
>
>
>>>Giannis
>>
>>I see you're back on the bandwagon now but lets not get
>>carried away lol
>>
>>Ben's a great defender but I don't know about him "shutting
>>down everyone on an opposing roster" I think Beal and Trae
>>both averaged like 30 vs the Sixers in the playoffs last
>year
>>
>>I think Brooklyn's D will be good but I'm interested to see
>>what their offense looks like with Ben. KD likes to handle
>the
>>ball himself at the top of the key a lot, when he does that
>>where will Ben go? to the post? Can Nash coach like that?
>

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jSZ_g4zVCYk

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1510229709061251077?s=20&t=RaqbbJrqxZiJ2GNPAxDFQQ

👀

NM

Why trade either of them right away? There's no doubt whatsoever that suitors will line up with a crazy offer as the deadline approaches.

And, lol, it's certainly not like they owe either of those dudes any favors.

.

right now.

Not saying he should keep these numbers up but he shouldn't have to.

Costars are playing well too.

But putting up 40 a night shouldn't be expected for longevity.

its a low bar at this point but at least bro was on the floor.