so here we are, positive spin is we'll have a long offseason for folks to get healthy....

who stays and who goes?

of course Lebron and AD are our cornerstones. hopefully AD can use the long summer to get his body right.

bye Kyle.

Schroeder turned down an $80mil extension mid-season we'll see what his price is now...

there's been rumblings about Lonzo coming back...

I know KCP is Klutch Sports but I'm over him...

Gasol had his moments but he's done...

After starting every game since he's been here Drummond didn't play last night, I don't think he returns...

for whatever reason Harrell seemed to fall out of favor with Vogel, I like him but it will be interesting to see what he does with his player option...

one more year of Loul Deng on the books, thanks Mitch.

Caruso's a free agent, it will be interest to see what his price is. I'd like to have him back but we shouldn't overpay.

Wes Matthews had his moments but nah...

of course we bring THT back...

Is Vogel the man to lead us back to the promise land? his rotations got curiouser and curiouser towards the end. We do have Kidd waiting in the wings. When do we pull that trigger?

He essentially said that a player of AD's age shouldn't be hurt as much as he is (I know., not breaking news). But he suggested the Lakers should become more involved in his training regiment.

I can't disagree with him. AD seems a bit slight to be playing PF and these injuries over the years are gonna impact his longevity at some point. I don't see why LeBron doesn't have his trainer holla at AD.

This season was gonna be a losing battle ever since the start of this season got moved up six weeks. They never had a chance to rest. Even though they played well at times, they never had enough games together to really gel as a team.

As far as free agents, I hope that Caruso and THT take Schroeder's minutes. I'm not impressed with him at all, and definitely not at $20M+ a year. Maybe Pelinka can work out a sign and trade with him and at least get a trade exception to help out the team.

KCP is alright to me. With him, the question is, 'who are you gonna get that's better at his rate?' I can't answer that question off the top of my head and because I can't answer the question, it makes me think that there isn't a clear answer and so resigning him isn't a bad option.

The main goal of this offseason ought to get LeBron and AD 100% or as close to that as humanly possible. When they're both clicking the Lakers are a top 3 team. We saw what happens when they're not.

>He essentially said that a player of AD's age shouldn't be
>hurt as much as he is (I know., not breaking news). But he
>suggested the Lakers should become more involved in his
>training regiment.
>
>I can't disagree with him. AD seems a bit slight to be playing
>PF and these injuries over the years are gonna impact his
>longevity at some point. I don't see why LeBron doesn't have
>his trainer holla at AD.

I agree with all that but like somebody else said at this point AD is a grown man and has to decide that he wants to do that.

>This season was gonna be a losing battle ever since the start
>of this season got moved up six weeks. They never had a chance
>to rest. Even though they played well at times, they never had
>enough games together to really gel as a team.
>
>As far as free agents, I hope that Caruso and THT take
>Schroeder's minutes. I'm not impressed with him at all, and
>definitely not at $20M+ a year. Maybe Pelinka can work out a
>sign and trade with him and at least get a trade exception to
>help out the team.

I like Caruso but I'm not a fan of him getting starter's minutes. THT was major sticking point in a lot of trades that we didn't do so his progress will be interesting to watch.

>KCP is alright to me. With him, the question is, 'who are you
>gonna get that's better at his rate?' I can't answer that
>question off the top of my head and because I can't answer the
>question, it makes me think that there isn't a clear answer
>and so resigning him isn't a bad option.

Good point and I'm not sure.

>The main goal of this offseason ought to get LeBron and AD
>100% or as close to that as humanly possible. When they're
>both clicking the Lakers are a top 3 team. We saw what happens
>when they're not.

Agreed.

at his size it has to be stressful on his joints

but the same could be said for CP3. Dude gets hurt every year.

maybe its bad luck or maybe some are more injury prone than others

>at his size it has to be stressful on his joints
>
>but the same could be said for CP3. Dude gets hurt every year.
>
>
>maybe its bad luck or maybe some are more injury prone than
>others

that's the thing its not always joint injuries its various things plus he is just clumsy I remember a few games ago he tried to help Lebron up and fell on top of him and almost injured both of them and LeBron just hugged him lol

whether it's because his crazy 8-inch growth spurt in 18 months (which perhaps his body has never fully adjusted for) - or just a body composition not built for the rigors of an NBA season - it's not something that everyone can handle. In fact, very few can handle it.

I don't think it's fair to suggest that AD isn't putting in the time/effort -- I think he is -- his body just didn't seem to want to cooperate this year.

Not to say that he shouldn't adjust and try some new regimens - he absolutely should because what he's been doing hasn't helped him much - but I think we often assume a guy is lazy or not committed in these situations when a lot of it may actually be out of his control.

-->

It's easy to say that because he gets hurt that he isn't as committed to his health as LeBron. But no one else is as committed as LeBron. It wouldn't be realistic to think he would be at this point in his career.

I didn't think much about his commitment to his durability until I heard Cowherd mention something about it. Even though I knew what he was saying was mostly bullshit, it still stuck in my brain.

But that doesn't mean he's lazy. I'm willing to give him and LeBron a mulligan for this year because of the limitations the short layoff had on their pre-season training.

Ryan M brought up a good point about AD's injury history relative to the average player. I didn't realize that it's not so much that he's injury-prone, just a bit more than what some think he ought to be.

My mind is knee-deep in his press narrative. And we know those narratives have to be taken with a large grain of salt.

Not saying there aren’t adjustments to be made, and this year was really bad for him health wise - but the notion he’s made of glass is simply wrong.

frame. he's always been slim, but maybe some extra weight would help.

That’s him and Embiids problem. They are athletic for their size to an anomaly level. The body isn’t meant for that. They can dial it back to like 80% offensively, probably be more efficient and definitely healthier.

That’s what I notice watching Jokic. It’s because he isn’t conventionally athletic,but his game is very low impact. I don’t think I’ve seen him get hurt either.

are some sort of lost art.

Jokic eats off of them though.

ESPN's Rachel Nichols I think she was on point today when she said that the Lakers were caught in between trying to compete for another title now and trying to build for the future in some of their personnel decisions. Its hard to do both at the same time you usually have to decide between one or the other.

This was a microcosm of the AD trade (that worked out exceptionally well) where they would've had to ship some developing prospects - but the reward is a proven veteran/winner. When AD went down - if they had Lowry - I think they could've weathered the storm and even still overcome the Suns.

THT is a nice player - and Caruso/Dennis have their value - but I think you give what you have to give to get a guy like Lowry *if* the mentality is to win now.

I think it's actually a good thing that their season ended earlier (Rather than conf. finals for example) - because this team to me just never had the chance to gel and build chemistry together as a healthy unit - and I don't think they could've marched to the Finals this year given their lack of health from both AD and LeBron. A long off-season can do wonders for both Bron and AD after such a historically short off-season after winning that 'chip.

Speaking of 'chip #17, I think that also made too many of the players complacent going into the season - buzzing off being champions - and probably not preparing for a crazy short turn-around to make another title run. They weren't hungry this year - but because of how it ended - I think they'll be hungry again going into next season - and more importantly: healthy. But at the end of the day - Lakers faithful gotta be happy with getting another championship over the course of the last chaotic year. Bron & delivered.

In retrospect, was Rob trying to be too cute w/ all the roster re-tooling after winning a 'chip? I get that you don't want to stand still and constantly want to improve - but at the beginning of the year the consensus was that the changes were for the better - but were they? Seems that having Danny Green & Dwight against the Suns would've made a difference - especially on the defensive end. Dwight would've been able to blunt Ayton a bit more, and Green's three & D was badly needed when Lakers couldn't buy a jumpshot and were getting torched by Phoenix guards.

I don't get Vogel's rotations and lack of adjustment. Thought he did a good job in the title run - but this year he was grossly outcoached by Monty. I don't get benching Montrezl - especially when you needed offensive punch. Kuzma was really disappointing. Dennis said he wants to return to LA - but I think Lakers may look for a sign and trade opportunity packaging developing talent for win-now ready guys.

Bron may finally be succumbing to Father Time - and it's crazy that he was once again in a situation where had to carry triple his load just to keep the Lakers afloat in year 18. Year 19 Bron cannot be taking the brunt of the mileage. This year was the perfect natural transition for AD to take the responsibility of being the A guy - but he couldn't stay healthy. Lakers need to manage Bron's aging much better than they did this year, because he can still be elite in high leverage moments, but he can't be carrying the load like this anymore -- it's an impossible ask.







-->

Lowry addresses a ton of needs, and this team's window with LeBron was always going to be short. passing on that deal because of THT never made sense to me.

Not because I love THT, KCP, or Dennis like that - but because without those guys in AD and Brons absence I’m not sure they even make the play in.

Lowry is the perfect fit of course but losing those pieces might have been a wrap on this season even earlier.

>Not because I love THT, KCP, or Dennis like that - but
>because without those guys in AD and Brons absence I’m not
>sure they even make the play in.
>
>Lowry is the perfect fit of course but losing those pieces
>might have been a wrap on this season even earlier.


I'm not sure if all 3 of those players would've been included in a trade for Lowry.

I think I'm slowly becoming resigned to the fact that winning a championship is hard. Repeating as champion is even harder. A lot of breaks have to go your way. This time they didn't.

We're still in better shape than most of the NBA will 2 great pieces to build around for at least 2 more years. If we can get another ring or 2 in that time that would be awesome.

>Not because I love THT, KCP, or Dennis like that - but
>because without those guys in AD and Brons absence I’m not
>sure they even make the play in.
>
>Lowry is the perfect fit of course but losing those pieces
>might have been a wrap on this season even earlier.

Yea giving up all three of those guys would've been a tough call - but I would've given up 2 of them in a second to get Lowry.


-->

Last season had a team I didn’t totallly believe in but I knew we could go to war with them (posted that exact phrase on here some where)

Believed we’d just run teams down with talent and bodies this year but I knew this wasn’t a war team. But I was way more confident from the beginning that we’d win the title. The bubble tax clearly kicked our ass more than anyone in the league as well.

So 1/2 ain’t bad. Didn’t expect much out of the bron + kids year

5 months of rest, and embarrassment should motivate bron and AD to come back strong as fuck. And I will always believe in a title with those two. Rob gonna take these last two years and build a talented, war team. I don’t even see the point of stressing about it. Taking some time off thinking about the lakers for a while but I’m ready for the show to return in November.

Niggas just getting jokes off rn but we are straight.

It's worthwhile to keep in mind that this Lakers team actually was a #1 in the rankings with the league's best rated defense when they were healthy earlier in the season. So it's not as if we can just simp-out and say that the new roster failed - because when the full roster was intact, this team was elite.

Not saying this to suggest the Lakers shouldn't make any moves - they need to (particularly with the abysmal 3-point shooting that they displayed in the playoffs) - but if they ran it back as is? There's not reason to think they wouldn't once again be a #1 seed with the league's best (or near the best) rated defense.

This was an elite team when healthy. Health of Bron & AD has to be the primary focus of the off-season.
-->

https://nypost.com/2021/06/06/magic-johnson-destroys-lakers-dennis-schroder-he-failed/


haven't seen this discussed yet but damn, Magic ain't got love for Dennis at all.

he wasn't a good fit and caused chemistry issues...

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lakers-promised-andre-drummond-a-starting-spot-to-convince-him-to-sign-per-report/

Lakers promised Andre Drummond a starting spot to convince him to sign, per report
Drummond was benched entirely for the Lakers' season-ending loss to the Suns

The Los Angeles Lakers were a somewhat surprising choice for Andre Drummond when he was bought out by the Cleveland Cavaliers. The Lakers already had two valuable centers in Marc Gasol and Montrezl Harrell, and even if they didn't, they had just won a championship playing small with Anthony Davis at center. Playing time appeared to be in short supply. There were plenty of other contenders that seemingly had more of it to offer.

But Drummond chose the Lakers and was rewarded with 24.8 minutes of playing time per game. He never once came off of the bench for the Lakers, and now we know why. Marc Stein of the New York Times reported in his Tuesday newsletter that the Lakers needed to promise Drummond a starting position in order to convince him to sign with them.

That starting role should not have been a given. The starting five that the Lakers used earlier in the season featuring Marc Gasol at center outscored opponents by 13.9 points per 100 possession, but the team as a whole started to struggle when Anthony Davis got hurt. The Lakers panicked as a result and felt the need to upgrade that Gasol spot. They pursued Drummond in a move that many Lakers fans criticized. Gasol, for all of his limitations, offered sorely needed spacing, ball movement and reliability on defense that Drummond did not.

Those critics were proven right when Gasol steadily fought his way off of the bench and reclaimed minutes. By Game 6 of the Lakers' first-round loss to the Phoenix Suns, Gasol had been reinserted into the starting lineup. Drummond was benched outright.


The saga as a whole highlights just how different the 2020-21 roster was from its championship predecessor. Dwight Howard is significantly more accomplished than Drummond, but he felt comfortable sacrificing minutes and coming off of the bench for the Lakers. That attitude is necessary to win championships. This year's Lakers didn't have that. Injuries would have prevented them from repeating as champions anyway, but it's a lesson for the Lakers to carry into this offseason. If players need promises to commit to a championship pursuit, they probably aren't great fits for a team with such ambitions.

I think he has to go. As far as roster moves, I really don't know. Not much tradeable capital there. Free agency wise, I don't really know either. Don't mind the idea of bringing in DRose but don't know that there are many great moves to be made there. Interested to see how this offseason plays out.

We won a motherfucking title a year ago.

We had one of the best defensive teams in the league, being top 5 in several defensive stats.

We were fine until the injuries to Brawn and Brow hit, and they hit us hard. And we still remained a great defensive team.

Health was the number one problem when it mattered most. I have no idea what reasonable justification you'd have to say that he has to go.

didn't like the hire when it first happened. Definitely happy for the title and agree that health was the main issue this year. I'm just not a Frank Vogel fan.

>As far as roster moves, I really don't
>know. Not much tradeable capital there.

-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia

.

and I forget if it was Get Up or First Take, but he was saying they needed to get someone to basically work with him on his summer habits of conditioning.

he had to be high, white privilege had him thinking he could take weed through the airport in his hometown, he forgot most of those redneck Texans aren't basketball fans lol...

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31690313/los-angeles-lakers-guard-alex-caruso-arrested-texas-marijuana-possession

he was probably like "do you know who I am?" Them: "Nope"

..the internet means there's a plug everywhere.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

early talks are David Fizdale(hell yes) and Terry Stotts(hell no)

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/five-candidates-the-lakers-could-pursue-to-replace-jason-kidd-on-frank-vogels-coaching-staff/

*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

self-preservation he may not want to hire someone that could eventually replace him

I actually think he'd be a better fit than Dennis.

-->

I guess a sign and trade is possible.

I'd agree he's a good fit, but I really don't how how they're going to improve this roster given Dennis has all the leverage.

>I guess a sign and trade is possible.

He’s certainly not obligated to, but we can go over the cap to resign him as I think we have his bird rights.

That said - this assumes some other team wants to help the Lakers so who knows

So we have this iteration of the Big 3...Gasol still under contract...McKinnie too, I guess. What pieces can the Lakers reasonable expect to get and which ones work best with the combination of Westbrook, LeBron, and AD? This is going to be interesting.

will be sign and trades

definitely need to figure out a sign and trade involving Schroeder. Curious to see who they get.

I'm having a hard time seeing how this Big 3 works well together and don't have much faith in Vogel being able to manage this all properly.

Before making any definitive predictions. We really don’t know much yet other than we’ve got 3 superstars....so that’s a good start, lol.

Lots of moves still to come, obviously. Gotta imagine adding a lot of shooting is the primary focus.

a plan, there has been talk about him "moving off the ball" for years maybe this is how it happens


>I'm having a hard time seeing how this Big 3 works well
>together and don't have much faith in Vogel being able to
>manage this all properly.

The overlap in reporting on the Hield deal and the Westbrook deal is.... interesting.

My guess is, this gets "expanded" to include Hield, Kuz and KCP go to Sac, Schroder and Trez go to Was, and Hield comes to LA.

Then we reup THT and Caruso.

Then, with the mid level, we get one among: Doug McDermot, Bobby Portis, Dragic, or Rose. I'm guessing there will be a significant pool of guys angling for this one, and that's where we get our second shooter to go along with Buddy.

We'll get Dwight and Melo on vet minimum deals, and that will be the core of our roster.

Brawn
Brow
Brodie
Hield
THT
Portis, McDermott or Dragic
Caruso
Dwight
Melo

I'd prefer to find an additional shooter via S&T with THT. It's good to have a guy waiting in the wings, but we've got two many top tier guys right now.

We're prime to get two more if we play our cards right, and we need to maximize this. Sorry, but Tucker's gotta go. That's our best asset. So I'd find a shooter out there on an 8-10 mil salary and find him a new home.

..Balance is the key.

This will be fun.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

Initially I would've preferred to see Lowry - but given that they just had to give up Kuz (non-factor in playoffs), Trez (barely even played), and KCP (nice rotational player but you deal him for a talent like Westbrook) --- I like the move.

X-factor: Westbrook's hunger for a title matched w/ the fact that he *always* plays well against KD and any team/player who he feels burned him. He played with fire as a Wiz against Brooklyn - and they were actually competitive because of it. Lakers need that third guy who can absorb the heavy mileage if AD is injured/off and Bron can't go herculean because of his age. Westbrook can manage the team in any situation to keep them afloat when/if Bron/AD are on minutes restrictions.

Lakers aren't done maneuvering either. They're going to prioritize surrounding this trio w/ shooters. It'll be a lot of fun to watch.

..busy is an understatement.

Pelinka working overtime to retool the roster. Not bad at all.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

All of this wouldn't have been possible without his rejection lol.

-->

for Dennis. He was super cool. Used to drop in on Thunder Twitter and kick it. He threw them dice up against the wall, though...and they landed funny.

While I do think it was too big of an ask for him to be the third guy on this Lakers team (he was too inconsistent in that role) - he has real value.

Can't be mad at him for betting on himself - but I wonder if he had an agent and/or outside influence who was trying to somewhat irresponsibly push for a deal outside his true market value. That $84 million deal was generous IMO.

That said, with how some of these NBA contracts are structured, it wasn't crazy to think he could get a suitor *somewhere* for that kind of money, but certainly not in Los Angeles.

-->

Second reaction: Westbrook and a bunch of shooters is way, way better than Dennis.

Third reaction: WTF is happening? Why is he getting no attention?

Forth: Something's up, we got a deal brewing out there somewhere and we/he are waiting on X shoe to drop.

Now?

This looks bad.

I can't clap to someone betting on themselves only to fail miserably, unless that failure was due to them being a POS. I hope he gets paid somehow and doesn't wind up getting screwed as a result.

He got a little ahead of himself, thought he was worth more than the market would reasonably bare- and I think that was clear at the time.

I want to hear the story of his free agency, because if he's been holding out for that 25 mil bag, yeah, this is on him. There's a line between believing in your worth, and accepting the demonstrable reality.

If he's trying to get paid like an all star instead of a quality starter, he needs to cross that line into reality, and he has only himself to blame.

>Second reaction: Westbrook and a bunch of shooters is way,
>way better than Dennis.
>
>Third reaction: WTF is happening? Why is he getting no
>attention?
>
>Forth: Something's up, we got a deal brewing out there
>somewhere and we/he are waiting on X shoe to drop.

As soon as Westbrook came on board -- the whole gameplan shifted for the Lakers. I think one of the reasons Dennis held out for more money is because he (and probably his team) felt that the Lakers had to pay it because they really needed a competent starting PG on this squad, and the market looked relatively bare for top-level PGs.

But you never know how these wild west free agency periods play out these days. Once the Russ deal happened - Dennis all of a sudden looked expendable - especially when you get tremendous value with Nunn at the tax-payer MLE.

>I want to hear the story of his free agency, because if he's
>been holding out for that 25 mil bag, yeah, this is on him.
>There's a line between believing in your worth, and accepting
>the demonstrable reality.
>
>If he's trying to get paid like an all star instead of a
>quality starter, he needs to cross that line into reality, and
>he has only himself to blame.

100%. He'll land somewhere, but it will be for but a fraction of what he would've got with that $84 million deal. He'll have to play himself into a bigger contract, yet again.

I think a lot of players will look at this whole situation as instructive when it comes to being so quick to not take that kind of money and walk away from the table; instead opting to gamble big in an uncertain FA market.


-->

He's a good player, but it goes beyond the salary demands, I'm sure.

He comes into a team bitching about his role from day 1, AND thinks he's a near max player, AND turned down a deal that made him automatically overpaid? Like...you need to pick one, my dude.

I knew he’d regret turning that down but I didn’t think there’d be zero market for him at all. I don’t even want him on the team really. Gone somewhere

Didn't he erase that title from his IG directly after the Suns series?

I agree with you though - I think it's a bit of an awkward fit for Dennis on the Lakers now with Russ/Nunn/Monk holding down that slot. It's not that he's not valuable - but Lakers just seem to have moved on from him - and you can't blame them for having that generous deal rebuked like that.


-->

for whatever we need, possibly some front court depth

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2021/08/lebron-james-deletes-tweet-reaction-lakers-old-roster-nba