We have a 2-night NXT starting tonight.

We have a 2-night Mania starting Saturday.

We have a Jericho interview on WWE Network this weekend too. Oh hush, it is good for everyone if rasslin companies are less salty with one another. We all know that Jericho has been at it for 30-ish years, he's been everywhere, and maybe this cracks the door open for something even cooler down the road.

Will Ospreay is the NJPW mega/ultra/whatever heavyweight champ now. Meanwhile, Ricochet, a man who can also do many elaborate flips, is in catering at WWE. Speaking of something cool, maybe WWE should just give Ricochet to AEW..the same way they ALLEGEDLY gave Christian Cage to TNA in exchange for Flair getting to do the HOF that one time.

I'm AM salty that Ricochet, Street Profits, Nakamura and Bayley don't have real spots on Mania week. There's about to be like 15 hours of WWE rasslin this week and they couldn't find anything for these folks to do? At least with Charlotte, there's COVID and other shenanigans to point to.

BUT

There should still be lots of good stuff this week, so sift through it and enjoy yoself!

I'm going to reserve my cynicism and enjoy it. That match should rip.

If they really want to mint a guy and make their "next Rock", Reigns should retain.

>I'm going to reserve my cynicism and enjoy it. That match
>should rip.
>
>If they really want to mint a guy and make their "next Rock",
>Reigns should retain.

You are damn right about this as a main event. Like we say all the time, the builds and weekly shows aren't amazing, but this match is gonna be THE SHIT. It is 3 dudes who were for real forced into some kind of retirement. And now they're all back. That is cool AF for WWE to have this rolling.

They've been trying to redo and outdo the Mania XX main for damn near 20 years now. And Benoit issues aside, that HBK, Haitch, and Benoit is a tough ass 'making someone' moment to follow. Orton, Bluetista, and Bryan at Mania XXX is good times too. And now, they have this joint here. Mighty nice.

The thing here: everyone is already pretty much made, so anyone could win and they could tell whatever story they want to go with it.

Man, that show was a blast. We're getting Ciampa vs. goddamned WALTER and this show was losing to AEW in ratings?

Most episodes are good, move the stories along, and push the wrestlers that deserve pushing... but they haven't been able to replicate the feel of the Full Sail crowd. On a podcast I listen to someone pointed out that the all-black mat/ring apron/background look kinda puts you to sleep without a real crowd and I have to agree. In general, I find it more consistent than AEW, but I'm still more excited to watch AEW week-to-week cause the highs are higher.

This card looks great though and I cannot wait for Walter vs. Ciampa. If it's anywhere close to Walter's matches with Ilja, Dunne, or Bate it's gonna be a barnburner.

Era was like the Always Sunny Gang to me (Cole=Mac, Strong = Dennis, and sorry Kyle, but you move like a bird.)

But holy shit is Gargano so much fun as the cocky chickenshit heel. And Austin Theory as Kronk? Man, I laughed my ass off when he did that kip-up on the outside to eliminate himself.

That was a better version of Brock v. Balor.

>That was a better version of Brock v. Balor.

WALTER is the shit. He has that best days Taker thing where he goes from slow to go really fuggin fast. And when he takes and registers damage of any kind, it’s a thing. And Ciampa was excellent too. Just pro wrestlers being pros and killing it with the time they were given.

With the commercials and the hard time limit, night 1 felt a tad rushed in parts. The main event felt like they got jacked out of a few minutes on the first watch. Of course, they still killed it by landing the hell out of all of the big spots and telling the story. NXT is still rasslin done right on its best days.

>
>With the commercials and the hard time limit, night 1 felt a
>tad rushed in parts. The main event felt like they got jacked
>out of a few minutes on the first watch. Of course, they still
>killed it by landing the hell out of all of the big spots and
>telling the story. NXT is still rasslin done right on its best
>days.

I was surprised when looking at the time that both the tag team match and Women’s title were still to come. It felt like the Ciampa/Walter ending got rushed to fit those in. Either way, all the matches did what they needed to. Thoroughly entertaining show, and after watching AEW this morning it almost feels like they won the Wednesday Night Wars on their way out.

I need my man Kushida to get a legit push though. Just let him get a little run with the NA title and then he can go back to pushing the younger guys.

That shit was a SPRINT but with psychology.

or Tyler Bate the previous year. Both were instant classics. Plus he had a long feud with Ilja on the indies that produced some fantastic matches.

This has been WWE's thing the last few years. Weekly TV is mostly meh to bad, but very few PPVs have disappointed. They threw together a lot of this card in the last couple weeks though, so I'm curious to see what the video packages are like.


>and maybe this
>cracks the door open for something even cooler down the road.

I doubt it. I agree with Punk's take that this just means Vince doesn't really view AEW as a threat. I don't see them doing any real collaboration with an outside company as long as Vince is at the helm.

>
>Will Ospreay is the NJPW mega/ultra/whatever heavyweight champ
>now.

Man, do I hate that title, and on a personal level I hate Ospreay, but I still can't argue with him getting a run as champ. He's an incredible wrestler, a guy you want to boo, and his change in style has been amazing to watch. The DV angle they ran with Bea Priestly was so gross though. They've made a lot of puzzling decisions in the last year and that's the worst. There are so many ways to get heel heat w/o doing shit like that, least of all when both of them were probably guilty of blacklisting an assault victim.

Thank god they cancelled Scurll's appearance at NJPW Strong though.


>I'm AM salty that Ricochet, Street Profits, Nakamura and
>Bayley don't have real spots on Mania week.

I'd rather see Bayley in Ripley's spot tbh. No disrespect to Ripley, but I'd rather they build her up rather than just have her issue a challenge and act heelish in her debut. Bayley is a heel, has history with Asuka, and carried the company for a long period. She deserves the spot.

i cant imagine there would be a collab because AEW thinks its 1:1 w/ top WWE talent. and WWE wont want to devalue their talent by pretending AEW actually has an equivalent profile.

>This has been WWE's thing the last few years. Weekly TV is
>mostly meh to bad, but very few PPVs have disappointed. They
>threw together a lot of this card in the last couple weeks
>though, so I'm curious to see what the video packages are
>like.
>
>
>>and maybe this
>>cracks the door open for something even cooler down the
>road.
>
>I doubt it. I agree with Punk's take that this just means
>Vince doesn't really view AEW as a threat. I don't see them
>doing any real collaboration with an outside company as long
>as Vince is at the helm.
>

OF COURSE VINCE DOESN'T VIEW ANYONE AS A THREAT! Haha.

But I think that's the big thing that could lead to good stuff. WWE is obviously the top dog by an insurmountable amount no matter what any fanperson thinks. But they are also somewhat obviously running fat. They have good azz rasslers who are healthy and not old. And even with Raw, SD, and NXT, there's folks who go months without being involved in anything of even remote note. And we have real deal folks who are not on 4 friggin days of Mania Week rasslin this year.

So, it could be a win/win for a little swapping when either fed has some folks sitting around. They can't do it like AN INVASION. They COULD totally just do a 'hey AEW, take Ricochet for a year. Don't job him out! We'll give you a podcast or 24 documentary on some person. Leggo'.

And I also want to believe that WWE would be very fine with more people watching any kind of wrestling anyway, because they know they're the best and if 100 new folks start watching wrestling, they would 'take' a high percentage of those fans eventually.

>>Will Ospreay is the NJPW mega/ultra/whatever heavyweight
>champ
>>now.
>
>Man, do I hate that title, and on a personal level I hate
>Ospreay, but I still can't argue with him getting a run as
>champ. He's an incredible wrestler, a guy you want to boo, and
>his change in style has been amazing to watch. The DV angle
>they ran with Bea Priestly was so gross though. They've made a
>lot of puzzling decisions in the last year and that's the
>worst. There are so many ways to get heel heat w/o doing shit
>like that, least of all when both of them were probably guilty
>of blacklisting an assault victim.
>
>Thank god they cancelled Scurll's appearance at NJPW Strong
>though.
>

Yeah, NJPW struggles with consistency. WWE and AEW did a number on their roster so there's that too. And their Cena is now old and impressively hurt after a long crazy run as their Ace. And I'm not sure if they have a good next step for Okada either. But I'm glad they're on the scene.

>>I'm AM salty that Ricochet, Street Profits, Nakamura and
>>Bayley don't have real spots on Mania week.
>
>I'd rather see Bayley in Ripley's spot tbh. No disrespect to
>Ripley, but I'd rather they build her up rather than just have
>her issue a challenge and act heelish in her debut. Bayley is
>a heel, has history with Asuka, and carried the company for a
>long period. She deserves the spot.

Oh wow. I hadn't thought about that, but it makes a lot of sense. I'm guessing Bayley was going to get Charlotte.

And by "top," I mean everything having to do with Omega/Young Bucks/Good Brothers.

Like, I don't know what the fuck is going on with the motivations/story-telling in main event last night, but it's all over place. So after now what's fourth months of build-up, the Young Bucks are "back" with the Bullet Club? I don't know why I'm supposed to be mad or even care. Especially since I'm assuming it's still going to be Bucks vs. Good Brothers at the May PPV. So eventually they're going to try again to sell everyone on them falling out AGAIN?

Reminds me of the build-up to Bucks vs. FTR, which also made no sense. However, that resulted in a great match. This? I dunno.

Mostly this convinces me even more than the Pinnacle needs to be at the top of the card. Which I figure happens after May anyway.

Most of the promos last night ran from good to great. Jericho's was all-timer. QT running down Cody was awesome. I liked Death Triangle laughing Best Friends holding a grudge a year later. I'm not happy with them breaking up Team Taz so early, but I am interested in seeing it unfold. I even dug Sting telling Jake and Archer to get their shit together.

But man, do they need to fix whatever is going on with Bucks/Omega/etc.

>
>Like, I don't know what the fuck is going on with the
>motivations/story-telling in main event last night, but it's
>all over place. So after now what's fourth months of build-up,
>the Young Bucks are "back" with the Bullet Club? I don't know
>why I'm supposed to be mad or even care.

Also can we stop with the "Young Bucks are conflicted about superkicking someone" shit? You superkick people 1,000 times a show and Kenny has been an asshole to you, just do it.

>Most of the promos last night ran from good to great.
>Jericho's was all-timer. QT running down Cody was awesome.

QT did deliver a good (edited) promo, but I think this faction is gonna sink, and when the big dude threw paint on the logo I laughed my ass off.

I'm not happy with them breaking up Team Taz so
>early, but I am interested in seeing it unfold.

I don't think it's a breakup as much as it is Cage or Ricky going off to do their own thing. I love how much they go at each other. Ricky can talk, so I'm guessing it's him leaving.

I even dug
>Sting telling Jake and Archer to get their shit together.

this was a mess to me. Sting and Lance can't really talk and Jake has lost the ability to give a coherent promo.

>Also can we stop with the "Young Bucks are conflicted about
>superkicking someone" shit? You superkick people 1,000 times a
>show and Kenny has been an asshole to you, just do it.

But, like, Don Callis played mind games with them last week! So, like psychology! Or something. Whatever. I still don't care.

Only part of this angle I like is the announcers talking about how much they hate Callis. Toss the rest of it in the trash.


>QT did deliver a good (edited) promo, but I think this faction
>is gonna sink, and when the big dude threw paint on the logo I
>laughed my ass off.

I mean, yeah, they are going to be better served fighting and beating the other enhancement on the Dark shows for a bit. But they've struggled with giving Cody something to do since he came back from filming the Go Big Show and Arrow or whatever. This gives him something to work against. And yes, Kamarato throwing the paint on the logo was dumb.


>I don't think it's a breakup as much as it is Cage or Ricky
>going off to do their own thing. I love how much they go at
>each other. Ricky can talk, so I'm guessing it's him leaving.

I could dig that. I think some good matches will come out of it regardless.

>this was a mess to me. Sting and Lance can't really talk and
>Jake has lost the ability to give a coherent promo.

I dunno, Sting telling to stop complaining and interrupting and do something productive was solid. I do agree on Jake's increasing lack of coherence. I feel like literally the only reason he's on the show is that it helps his sobriety.

the Outsiders of the Bullet Club When they're really like Syxx and Scott Norton. I'll give credit to Anderson for being an OG, but that stable is what it is because of Devitt, Fale and Tama. And it's REAL FUCKIN SUS that Kenny and the Bucks took that fame and ran with it without the AAPI dudes that established the crew.

>the Outsiders of the Bullet Club When they're really like
>Syxx and Scott Norton. I'll give credit to Anderson for being
>an OG, but that stable is what it is because of Devitt, Fale
>and Tama. And it's REAL FUCKIN SUS that Kenny and the Bucks
>took that fame and ran with it without the AAPI dudes that
>established the crew.

Because they undoubtedly made BC more popular and the whole faction got a nice taste of that merch money, which is ultimately the goal. But also I understand why Fale, GoD, and others feel like the Elite took the thing over, didn’t respect what was already established, and continue to trade on the BC name when they see fit. They’re absolutely right about that, and the additions in recent years (White, ELP, Kenta) have added their own thing while not trying to take away from the rest of the group.

Lots of cringe here...or am I hating

I dug it.

>Lots of cringe here...or am I hating

I don't think you're hating.

I love that they did a southern grudge match. It was VERY appropriate for the situation. But the problem with those then and now is like a good funk song: how do you end it? What kind of sequence of moves is 'enough' to have someone job for?

And then you get into stuff where someone is getting hit with a chain 15 times over 30 minutes and it is tough to stay into it unless folks really lay out a great/dramatic match.

And this one had a little HHH Epic match template going for it. You know: a 30-minute match that could've been 21 and the same point would've been made. In general, it is the WWE main event format that I dislike the most..yes, even more than the infinite specials: ON matches that Brock and other 'barely want to work' folks can't stop having.

Also, I think I love Killer/Karrion Kross so much that I was done for the night after he showed up and blunt force trauma'd Balor into the ground so wonderfully. Balor looked great fighting from underneath. Kross looked inevitable in the best way and it was good times.

Which, y’know, Trips could have taken the heat for. Someone in a crimson mask would have ratcheted that match up just that extra level.

I thought they were going for an epic and it wasn’t quite there. Balor/Kross probably should’ve headlined.

>Lots of cringe here...or am I hating

I cringed at O’Reilly’s entrance. Anyone else?

Dude is like an android or alien trying to learn how to move like a human.

Also his entrance hoodie was a rare miss from the Main Event Gear crew. Like, is KOR a really big Demolition fan?

They just can’t win.

I can’t say I care about any of these other matches until Banks-Bianca though. Hopefully some of them surprise me.

wouldnt have mattered if it were the men, it was the 5 tag teams in one match that sounded like not my cup of tea

>

Sometimes I appreciate those break matches. It really helps to not get burned out as a fan..especially live.

However, I’m wondering if wwe is gonna to adjust from now on and have shorter shows again. Tonight was like 3 hours. Nxt: both nights combined was like 4.5 hours. Maybe that’s the goal going forward?

Well booked to. Both looked very strong, and both got what they needed to stay strong going forward.

Naturally, Carmela and Lana are up next to kill the momentum.

That said, Billy Kay is, quit literally, gold. So I'm good.

This was solid. But they can do better. There's another two gears to tap for these two.

the rise of the New Day

thats the ONE thing i wish I'd seen

idc idc idc

>idc idc idc

Shane is a saint for being out there bumping for folks like that in his 50s.

For all of the attention in people’s ages this year, wwe has a lot of 40 and over folks working their asses off in the ring. Lashley, AJ, Edge, and others for examples.

Now, Bunny held up his end and worked his ass off.

>Now, Bunny held up his end and worked his ass off.

Credit to all involved. Miz and Morrison were great foils, Bunny's commitment to training showed, and they all got Priest ready for his push.

Bunny didn't just show up for a couple days and work out an easy match, he actually put the work in for months and pulled off some impressive shit. A canadian destroyer outside the ring without breaking the talent's neck? Way more than I thought he'd be able to pull off. Miz and Priest's reactions to that were priceless and Morrison sold the shit out of it. I was thoroughly sports entertained.

she must be excited for the new season of Jojo based on the colors

Wow was that impressive. There’s nothing wrong with her. She could be Charlotte status in a year.

>Wow was that impressive. There’s nothing wrong with her.
>She could be Charlotte status in a year.

Yeah. I’ve been in on her for a while and it’s excellent to see her get her shot to be great. She fucking killed it tonight. They landed everything and she looked like a damn hoss who can do EVERYTHING. Hopefully her and Ford both have a lot of big nights ahead of them in the fed.

It’s crazy to think that Sasha is the only one of the big 4 who is booked at mania this year.

I liked that he mentioned it was the first time 2 Black women main evented Wrestlemania. and he said it w/ his whole chest too.

Thankfully Cole highlighted it instead of trying to downplay it.

granted i was really engaged in it trying to get my friends up to speed on who these people are. they havent watched since ~05 so I threw Mania on the small screen but eventually we swapped it to the TV

they REALLY liked Cesaro. like "surely this guy is one of the top 2-3 guys rn" impressed by him

>granted i was really engaged in it trying to get my friends
>up to speed on who these people are. they havent watched since
>~05 so I threw Mania on the small screen but eventually we
>swapped it to the TV
>
>they REALLY liked Cesaro. like "surely this guy is one of the
>top 2-3 guys rn" impressed by him

Him and Rollins worked full speed. That match was sneaky special and I think it’ll age well even if they don’t follow up. It reminds me of what it looked like when Eddie and that whole crew would work with someone they trusted. Same thing with prime Bret and Shawn too.

Tomorrow can verg easily be more of the same.

In tonight's main event, they minted a certifiable mega star, and solidified the other.

The opener solidified two other current stars.

The celebrity match over delivered, and everyone played their part to perfection.

AJ and Omos had an enjoyable match with New Day- who might be heels now.

No Taker. No Brock. No Hunter or Goldberg.

Just the curent roster, plus one McBligatory McMahon.

And it was very good, from start to finish.

The Woman's Tag Team trainwreck was some Raw shit, but at least Biy Kay kept it entertaining for a few minutes. Everything else was good to great.

They don't need these older, part time guys. I dont count Edge in that, because he's a consistent contributor, not a one off, and he's at a point where his presence has actually energized the product.

Hopefully tomorrow is similar to tonight, and Vince sees that this crop of stars can carry things. And maybe he'll let more of them swim instead of treading water.

This roster is crazy good. Deep. High range of ages and styles. Men and women.

And even Shane is fine cuz he’s there to fall off of shit and lose at this point. And he did the hell out of that.

I saw a pic that said this was the first mania since 1988 that didn’t have HBK, Haitch, or Taker on the card. Crazy right?

I really enjoyed almost all of the work tonight. Sadly, yeah, that women’s tag was sloppy af. Almost no one came out of it clean.

And they spoiled Bad Bunny being straight ahead awesome by talking about how much he had trained. Imagine if he would’ve just showed up and did all of that shit without anyone saying snl thing! Still, I love dude forever for that match he had and how Miz and Morrison showed an IG amount of ass for him. Good times.

>Tomorrow can verg easily be more of the same.
>
>In tonight's main event, they minted a certifiable mega star,
>and solidified the other.
>
>The opener solidified two other current stars.
>
>The celebrity match over delivered, and everyone played their
>part to perfection.
>
>AJ and Omos had an enjoyable match with New Day- who might be
>heels now.
>
>No Taker. No Brock. No Hunter or Goldberg.
>
>Just the curent roster, plus one McBligatory McMahon.
>
>And it was very good, from start to finish.
>
>The Woman's Tag Team trainwreck was some Raw shit, but at
>least Biy Kay kept it entertaining for a few minutes.
>Everything else was good to great.
>
>They don't need these older, part time guys. I dont count Edge
>in that, because he's a consistent contributor, not a one off,
>and he's at a point where his presence has actually energized
>the product.
>
>Hopefully tomorrow is similar to tonight, and Vince sees that
>this crop of stars can carry things. And maybe he'll let more
>of them swim instead of treading water.
>
>

Everyone involved deserves a high amount of praise.

But this was a very good Mania ups and down. That 98 stat isn't all that bonkers, because all three guys did some truly great work long after 1998.

Hunter built an immense career after that, helping cement two top tier generational stars in the process.

Shawn's work was so exceptional that you could argue HBK had two separate hall of fame level careers- with his post-98 body of work being superior.

And Taker was already a great character, but also had his best run long after 98.

I think the more appropriate demarcation line is Brock/Taker, because the way Brock dominated the top of the card after that sucked a lot of.air out from the rest of the roster, and it became apparent after that that Hunter and Taker hung on far too long

Vince's myopia with Reigns was another, equally impactful choice. But in my estimatin, the bigger issue by far was Vince's heavy reliance on those old heads at the expense of better developing an exceptionally talented roster into bigger stars.

Mania 4/not Mania 14. We’re talking Savage winning the title via tournament Mania, not SCSA/Bad back HBK/Tyson mania.

I’m with you about Brock. They did a bad job of booking his lack of existence on the shows. So it just looked like their champ had better shit to do than be on weekly tv. That’s a bad look for the whole rest of the roster. And shit, he was even skipping PPVs with no explanation at all. That’s total bullshit and I hope they never let that go down with anybody on a regular basis again.

The thing now: folks are getting breaks/time off/periods of disappearance. The roster is big enough and there’s no house shows so it works. And if people come back in-shape and ready to roll after a few months away, this can work out great. Rollins, Reigns, Strowman have all done it and had it go pretty well. Even Lashley and Drew McIntyre were on the low for a bit before hitting their strides.

One time for MVP too. He showed up and helped Lashley bigtime. I love them together and I’m scurred of the day when they break that all the way up.

Besides that, I hope they shit or get off the pot with a few folks who currently aren’t doing much. Ricochet is my main one. He’s in his 30s and could be somewhere doing cool shit. Aliester Black is another. And after seeing Damien Priest last night, maybe they can just let Black go altogether whenever he’s healthy cuz they’re similar. We have enough rasslin companies now that folks like that might be better off pulling a McIntyre..going around the world working, improving and getting big spots on cards before coming back to WWE to finish up. AJ Styles did the same thing after finally leaving TNA too. They’re good examples that there’s no need to sit in WWE catering for years and/or get turned into a Ziggler, who is just dead no matter what he does now cuz it’s so crystal clear that he’s not it for WWE at all.

>Everyone involved deserves a high amount of praise.
>
>But this was a very good Mania ups and down. That 98 stat
>isn't all that bonkers, because all three guys did some truly
>great work long after 1998.
>
>Hunter built an immense career after that, helping cement two
>top tier generational stars in the process.
>
>Shawn's work was so exceptional that you could argue HBK had
>two separate hall of fame level careers- with his post-98 body
>of work being superior.
>
>And Taker was already a great character, but also had his best
>run long after 98.
>
>I think the more appropriate demarcation line is Brock/Taker,
>because the way Brock dominated the top of the card after that
>sucked a lot of.air out from the rest of the roster, and it
>became apparent after that that Hunter and Taker hung on far
>too long
>
>Vince's myopia with Reigns was another, equally impactful
>choice. But in my estimatin, the bigger issue by far was
>Vince's heavy reliance on those old heads at the expense of
>better developing an exceptionally talented roster into bigger
>stars.
>

I was zooming with a few friends and we were chatting the whole time up till the last match. We were mostly silent during Banks/Belair cause none of us wanted to miss a single move.

Rain delay really could’ve ruined the mood for this show so credit to the wrestlers for pulling it together, cause it felt like some of them had to shave a few minutes off their matches. Only the women’s tag match felt like they were rushing through a script.

>I was zooming with a few friends and we were chatting the
>whole time up till the last match. We were mostly silent
>during Banks/Belair cause none of us wanted to miss a single
>move.
>
>Rain delay really could’ve ruined the mood for this show so
>credit to the wrestlers for pulling it together, cause it felt
>like some of them had to shave a few minutes off their
>matches. Only the women’s tag match felt like they were
>rushing through a script.

The thing I loved about the rain delay? The random ass interviews they did to fill time. It was EXCELLENT to see some of those folks getting to talk and vamp. It let me know that some of those folks could totally do good stuff if they got the freedom to talk with a couple of bullet points and no scripts.

And man, I can’t say enough about Belair. She’s just goddamn excellent. She’s gonna be a fun/good match machine for years to come it seems. She’s like the dream of Naomi more fully realized. Or, at the risk of blasphemy, a more clean-working/less green young Charlotte Flair. Whatever, she’s awesome, I love her, and I hope she’s big shit and important for years to come. I saw her and Sasha damn near about to cry it up at the beginning. I’ll allow it!

It’s crazy to me how WWE has almost obviously decided to throw their belts on some of their best athletes/biggest ‘looking’ folks. Aka look at the champs..it’s almost all hosses. It’s a great way to differentiate themselves from any other company in the world. They’re obviously the top dog by many many many miles but, to me, it’s smart of them to do this too while they are at it. It seems like a deliberate decision too. Am I crazy?

I saw her and Sasha damn near
>about to cry it up at the beginning. I’ll allow it!
>

I love that they were able to have that moment and then get down to business with Sasha going full heel.

They’re obviously the top
>dog by many many many miles but, to me, it’s smart of them
>to do this too while they are at it. It seems like a
>deliberate decision too. Am I crazy?

I don't know that they think about it in terms of their competition, but I think it's deliberate to have champs that a casual viewer will be impressed by their physique AND moveset (no offense to the guy, but it doesn't work with a guy like Khali). It's great to have smaller underdog types of course, but there's only a handful who can stand across the ring from Reigns or Lesnar and look like they belong/have a shot at winning.

When Bobby Lashley walked out I asked my lady who she thought would win in a Lashley-Kenny Omega fight, and she just started laughing

She only stuck around for that match, but after being on the periphery of AEW for a year and a half, she commented on the visual contrast more than once.

>It’s crazy to me how WWE has almost obviously decided to
>throw their belts on some of their best athletes/biggest
>‘looking’ folks. Aka look at the champs..it’s almost all
>hosses. It’s a great way to differentiate themselves from
>any other company in the world. They’re obviously the top
>dog by many many many miles but, to me, it’s smart of them
>to do this too while they are at it. It seems like a
>deliberate decision too. Am I crazy?

What a mess. How do you build to a match for like 6 months and deliver THAT debacle?

The gimmick is beyond stupid. I hate that supernatural nonsense.

And now Alexa can never credibly go back to a “normal” gimmick, so she’s all done.

versus a guy with a reputation for half adding is a bad combination.

Fiend or no Fiend.

And the Fiend sucks so that doesn't help.

>versus a guy with a reputation for half adding is a bad
>combination.
>

And he has seemed super invested in this program IMO. This was a letdown.

>What a mess. How do you build to a match for like 6 months
>and deliver THAT debacle?

Whoever was the agent for that match needs their ass kicked. And that shit had NO business going on first tonight. None at all.

I get it, Bray is a big stories guy. But fuck this! He’s building a set of Starrcade 97-level bad payoffs for feuds. I’m getting the point where I’m done with dude all the way. Kinda like I’m done with Ziggler cuz WWE doesn’t care about him and I kinda think he’s a bitch for staying through it all instead of rolling out and proving folks wrong.

Sami/Owens was better than the first two but there's no reason for you to be invested in it either way

1st two matches were trash. KO/Zayn was solid, but the way this match was building, it needed 5 more mins to get *there*.

As has been mentioned, there wasn't much reason to invest in it, but they delivered a solid match. But it went home right when it felt like were going to get a crescendo.

Riddle and Sheamus though? They set a very high bar for the rest of the night. Off top, this was the second best match of the weekend. I liked Cesaro/Rollins, but I felt like they left a gear or two in the tank. This match up the ante on that one considerably.


Star making performance by Riddle.

So when Riddle flipped himself into the ring for no reason, right into a knee into the face - I was howling.

Then the match ended with him flipping into a brogue kick. Hilarious. I loved it.

He's a very dynamic performer. He's athletic as hell, and can work a very physical style at the same time.

Most flippity-flip, DIVE! Type guys can't also go hoss up like he can.

I can't stand the whole Bro gimmick, but he can fucking GO in that ring. He's got a very unique style and his flipping didn't co.e across as arbitrary at all to me.

Sheamus, despite having a bland character, is one of the best Hoss' to place lace em up. Seriously, he's got a pretty impressive catalong of those. Work wise, he's a top shelf big man, so much so that I'd argue that he's the Curt Hennig of Hoss fights, but without the acclaim due largely to a rather bland character. I dig the recent gear change, though he abandoned that tonight for whatever reason.

Even if he's not quite *that* he's still among the best ever on a Hoss work scale.

And Riddle went toe to toe with him on that, and added a lot of movement and athleticism to the mix. Everything he did tonight was great.

Charlotte
Bianca Belair
Sasha Banks
Asuka
Rhea Ripley

>Charlotte
>Bianca Belair
>Sasha Banks
>Asuka
>Rhea Ripley
>
>

And then there’s like 5-10 other folks who can easily step in and go too. And then there’s Rousey who can at minimum get her Sting/Luger 89 on and be hella useful.

This was a glorious weekend for women’s singles matches and yeah, I ain’t going nowhere during women’s matches unless it’s tag team shit with folks who pretty much can’t go and Shayna trying to good wrestle for 4 damn near alone.

I’m guessing whatever is up with Charlotte screwed Bayley out of having a match. That part sucks but I’m guessing they’ll do right by her during the summer and she’ll deliver the goods.

Let’s his music rock for 30 seconds before he steps out, expressionless

I alsays thought he had this in him though, and to that end I thi k the thing that they salvaged was their own horrible creative for his face iteration.

work over the last year being one of the folks carrying this sorry ass program through a pandemic

she better than being slung around by the washed Bellas

>work over the last year being one of the folks carrying this
>sorry ass program through a pandemic
>
>she better than being slung around by the washed Bellas

She deserved a singles match and instead she gets made fun of by everyone and easily beat up by the Bellas.

fitting end for the year he has had but I am so ready to move off Roman Reigns onto something else.

this dude shouldnt even be able to lift his arms up all of the submissions he ate.

What the fuck is this panel supposed to be?

This shit seems like the sort of panel you'd get on Bravo or VH1 or some shit after Love And Hip Hop or whatever. Maybe one of those esports tournaments for Call Of Duty or some shit.The CW Network Aftershow, perhaps. Dont know, but this ain't i

Props for getting Oshea on but yeah, this panel can kick rocks as a n wrestling aftershow.

We’ve covered the Bianca Belair match and moment already. I just didn’t see that coming , but the WWE must have to give her such a push and put her on last at Mania. Such an obvious superstar...if she’s the female centerpiece of Smackdown opposite Roman, you’ve got a strong foundation for what’s now your A show, by way of the Fox deal and the ascent of Reigns.

At long last, Reigns is at the god-level he deserves. Small tweaks have resulted in a big difference. There’s no going back from this either...even when he turns babyface he needs to keep this aesthetic and demeanor. Attitude-wise he’s the child of Cena and Batista, albeit with 5x the athleticism of either of those guys. As it stands there’s nothing wrong with him. Of COURSE he should beat two aging and injured veterans - he’s in his prime and from the most distinguished bloodline in the sport, while Edge and Bryan are lovable but almost washed and fueled by pride and desperation.

Not only was the match phenomenal, but You have to appreciate the idea that for all of their efforts “The Tribal Chief” remains inevitable. The challenge here is he needs a dance partner for the long term and I don’t know who that is yet. The obvious answer is Big E, but he’s a way away and I need to be convinced that he wants that status as much as everyone else wants it for him.

The guy who’s definitely NOT coming out of Mania for the better is Bray Wyatt, easily the biggest loser of the weekend. I don’t hate the supernatural stuff because I think it’s important that your show has something for everyone and that a person flipping the channels could land on the Fiend on a Monday night and get pulled in. But, man, at some point you just have to go out and have a good match. I’d forgotten about the red light effect so they already had that working against them, and then the finish was an all time wet fart of an ending. This will deservedly be remembered as one of the very worst Mania matches of all time.

For the skillset alone, Wyatt should be perceived as being on the same tier as McIntyre and Reigns, but the pursuit of that status seems futile now.
I don’t know how much input he had in that end, but I think Bray Wyatt really needs to think about taking greater agency of his on screen likeness...no “top guy” in the company has been such a consistent victim of A/B booking and overwriting.

In all though I was entertained a boat load. I even got a kick out of Bad Bunny tbh. Asuka/Ripley was close to being special too.

Put me down for being completely done with Bray Wyatt for a good long while. And this isn't the first time, but maaaaaaaaan! I'm annoyed with dude.

He keeps showing up looking NOT in-shape for one. And if we're being real, this last year was probably the best year for any wrestler to get/be in-shape. Far less shows. Far less travel. It basically just comes down to if you had a place to workout at and if you were interested in doing that and eating sensible dinners. IE: Look at Reigns, Edge, Belair, and several other folks from this WWE weekend of rasslin. Then, go look at Bray with spanx on when he's barely had to work any matches at all this year. MAYBE he's still hurt somehow? I dunno.

And then, if that's not enough, he is openly horrible at paying off feuds. Sometimes I agree that he just loses at the wrong time and gets killed off. Other times, he gets far too wrapped up in squirrelly bs and not nearly wrapped up enough in making sure that the matches have the proper tone and pace to them based on the story that has been told. He's done this a lot and I don't know if it is totally his fault or not, but I'm done with it. He's getting to be worst days WCW Hogan bad at this. He hasn't hit a finger poke of doom yet but he's inching closer and closer. And I'm gonna go hard no on the concept of him being in the class with any of WWE's good hoss rasslers cuz just no...he's not. Almost none of his stuff hits like those dudes.



>We’ve covered the Bianca Belair match and moment already. I
>just didn’t see that coming , but the WWE must have to give
>her such a push and put her on last at Mania. Such an obvious
>superstar...if she’s the female centerpiece of Smackdown
>opposite Roman, you’ve got a strong foundation for what’s
>now your A show, by way of the Fox deal and the ascent of
>Reigns.
>
>At long last, Reigns is at the god-level he deserves. Small
>tweaks have resulted in a big difference. There’s no going
>back from this either...even when he turns babyface he needs
>to keep this aesthetic and demeanor. Attitude-wise he’s the
>child of Cena and Batista, albeit with 5x the athleticism of
>either of those guys. As it stands there’s nothing wrong
>with him. Of COURSE he should beat two aging and injured
>veterans - he’s in his prime and from the most distinguished
>bloodline in the sport, while Edge and Bryan are lovable but
>almost washed and fueled by pride and desperation.
>
>Not only was the match phenomenal, but You have to appreciate
>the idea that for all of their efforts “The Tribal Chief”
>remains inevitable. The challenge here is he needs a dance
>partner for the long term and I don’t know who that is yet.
>The obvious answer is Big E, but he’s a way away and I need
>to be convinced that he wants that status as much as everyone
>else wants it for him.
>
>The guy who’s definitely NOT coming out of Mania for the
>better is Bray Wyatt, easily the biggest loser of the weekend.
>I don’t hate the supernatural stuff because I think it’s
>important that your show has something for everyone and that a
>person flipping the channels could land on the Fiend on a
>Monday night and get pulled in. But, man, at some point you
>just have to go out and have a good match. I’d forgotten
>about the red light effect so they already had that working
>against them, and then the finish was an all time wet fart of
>an ending. This will deservedly be remembered as one of the
>very worst Mania matches of all time.
>
>For the skillset alone, Wyatt should be perceived as being on
>the same tier as McIntyre and Reigns, but the pursuit of that
>status seems futile now.
>I don’t know how much input he had in that end, but I think
>Bray Wyatt really needs to think about taking greater agency
>of his on screen likeness...no “top guy” in the company
>has been such a consistent victim of A/B booking and
>overwriting.
>
>In all though I was entertained a boat load. I even got a kick
>out of Bad Bunny tbh. Asuka/Ripley was close to being special
>too.
>

I was a little surprised at how even the betting odds were between Reigns, Edge, and Bryan. To me this clearly should be Reigns’ night unless they thought they could recapture the magic of WM 30. Edge going over just didn’t make much sense to me. It’s a fine story in the moment, but I don’t really see where you go from there that’s worth sacrificing Reigns’ title run.

Roman is finally the dominant badass they were telling us he was as a face. I hope he carries it till next Mania.

Overall, I didn’t really enjoy Night 2. Maybe my expectations were too high after Night 1, but the night started with a couple stinkers and struggled to make an impression after that. Some really good matches and fun moments, but I was always comparing it to Night 1 in my head.

NXT being a combined 4.5 hours? This was cool. I don't know how well it would work financially as a fan when trying to attend a Mania week in person, but as a person watching at home, it felt much better than these Marathon Manias that have been going down over the last few years.

My love for Killer Kross is documented. I dig his whole thing and he's gonna be a hard person to beat. And he fits right into the hoss generation thing WWE has going.

Don't nobody say nuthin bad about WALTER. He's basically my Mrs. Jenkins. That mfer MOVES when the time comes and when he hits a move, IT FUCKING HITS. Love him. Yet another WWE hoss.

As for Mania:

Like we all keep saying, Night 1 was a party. I'll get wild and say Night 1 alone ranks at least in the top half of all Manias. Yeah, I'll stand with that..top 15 or so? Yeah..the shit was grand. Killer opener, one shaky cooldown match that might get some folks sent to back to the PC, and a killer women's main event with a new star getting made and an established star being cemented as someone who is big enough to make someone else. And Shane showed up to fall off of something and lose. And they got it all in under 4 hours even with a half-hour of delays and at least another half an hour of breaks and bs that allowed me to go grab a sandwich or a bathroom break.

To me, it seemed like someone in the back cussed a lot after the first hour of Night 2 and everyone after came out with pep all up in their steps. But there's no way around it: that first hour was HORRIBLE. 30 minutes of bullshit for that wet fart lame ass opener that basically no one could vouch for in Orton/Wyatt..that shit was bad enough that Bray might get shelved and I wouldn't care while Orton has to tiptoe back to Edge or a tag team maybe. And then, the tag match was fine enough, but it was supposed to be a cooldown match. But they got handed maybe the coldest crowd a 2nd match has gotten in the last decade since this was the format. Really really bad.

But then Sami and Owens came out and did a match that they'll be able to do together 20 years from now because they're so fucking excellent at rasslin. I hope they finally get a big shit moment one of these years so that they can throw out EVERYTHING they can do (Brainbustaaaaaaaaaahhh!) and make it clear to the few who still don't know that they are top shelf workers. We talk about stealing shows a lot. I'll say that Sami and Kevin SAVED this show and allowed the rest of the badass hossery we got for the last 2 hours to shine. Sheamus and Bro killed it. RR and Asuka did well. Big E and Crews validated their spots on the card (I hope Big E main events in the next few years).

And that mfin main event was a showdown for that azz. Another match that will probably age super well and rank really high on lists years from now. It was historically PHYSICAL. Reigns went through as much hell as you could without Taker/Kane around. He got some help from Uce Uno as expected. And he made it out of there with his belt after basically having to kill Bryan and Edge to do it. Everyone looked legendary and excellent. And bonus: anyone could've won and it would've been credible. We don't always get that in our main events. I'll take it. I also love that the 'older' guys played their roles to the max and then BOTH laid down like adults when the time came. We don't always get that either. I love it more and more every time I think about it.

Side: Jericho Interview

I watched the shit out of it Sunday afternoon. I'm a sucker for those types of interviews anyway so maybe I'm not the right one to ask but I liked it. It felt honest enough, Jericho didn't overly shill for any company, and I left it with an impression of how Jericho has seen the whole rasslin situation at several key times. He's openly high on himself and its easy to want to give him the business for that, but really...that SOB has had a helluva career and he's managed to be very good and important in a lot of ways for a really long time. He's fading now but its fine. He's still basically a miracle at his size. My money was on Eddie and Benoit being something like what Jericho ended up being. OOPS. Still, Y2J has made good and our wrestling worlds are better with him than without. He has managed his relationships well enough that he can show up anywhere. I like that better than the alternative: some salty dude who was great but basically can't show up anywhere ever because of burned bridges.

And Riddle got made last night, IMO.

He's a little smaller, but he showed that he can have an A-grade Hoss Fight with a Boss-grade Hoss.

Yeah, I actually typed that shit, lmao.

I think Sheamus is sort of cursed with a relatively bland personality. But I've sung his praises for years on this, he's as good as big men get in this business. He'd be a very believable opponent for Brock, if they actually allowed him to be. He's had a handful of top-shelf Hoss brawls that are believable, hard hitting, and high quality matches.

No ladders or chairs needed, just a guy that will beat the ever loving dog shit out of someone- and who can also take that beating in return.

Guys like Road Warriors, who were as over as over gets in their territory, could believably beat the piss out of people, but nowhere near the level of work rate as Sheamus. Even his top rope moves are power based. Put him in with any hoss, from any era, at any time, and he's as good or better.

His persona is another story, but he's a top shelf worker IMO.

And for Riddle, at his size, to put on a match that brutal, with a guy like Sheamus- and to dish out equally hard hitting offense like that? He deserves serious praise for that. And I hope the fans, and brass, took notice.

The two main events rightly get their due. But this match was on par with those, work wise. Sheamus/Riddle lacks the extra story and character beats that made those matches the timeless, instant classics they are. But the work itself? holy hell. Fantastic.

YES!

This was a great weekend to clear up any doubts anyone may have about WWE's roster: it's still ridiculously good and deep. Nobody nowhere can fuck with it at all (and I'm a person who loves that there's a bunch of companies functioning again). And it is still getting better. Seeing the belts make it onto some folks who are on their way up was really great too.

You beat the drum for Fella Sheamus and I'm with you. To me, he's one of the hosses that made WWE feel like they needed more hosses everywhere on their card. Kinda like Daniel Bryan was a smaller guy in a long line of smaller guys who helped get other smaller guys a look from WWE (Balor for instance). But now it just happens to be a full-on hoss era looking around the card. These hoss dudes, IMO, are well on their way to putting Brock out of business for the most part. I'm fine with this honestly. And of course, WWE is smart to do this on-purpose if that's what they're going for.

The rumor for a while was that Sheamus had heat with other workers for being TOO stiff. Makes sense!

I was telling some buddies that Sheamus hossed himself onto the Mania card with the stuff he did with McIntyre on Raw. Little did I know, he hossed himself into a title. Well deserved!

I'm also with you on the character being a little lame, but all he has to do is win a few matches, call some folks fella, and be treated seriously to do well.

And yeah, Riddle has that goofy character (Kurt Angle but far less funny) but he's a damn hoss too. And I think they know. With that, when the time is right, they're gonna make it even more obvious and he's gonna be good times and big shit. I mean regularly being in main events/big spots. It was the same way in the indies when he was in Catch Point with Drew Gulak and that crew 5 years ago. I went to an indie show during Mania 32 weekend and Riddle was roughly the most over dude on the show. And he basically only said 'bro' and made faces. And, like now, his ring work was hoss shit.

I also Youtube rabbit hole'd my way into seeing some title match with him and Keith Lee that probably got them both hired! Haha.


>And Riddle got made last night, IMO.
>
>He's a little smaller, but he showed that he can have an
>A-grade Hoss Fight with a Boss-grade Hoss.
>
>Yeah, I actually typed that shit, lmao.
>
>I think Sheamus is sort of cursed with a relatively bland
>personality. But I've sung his praises for years on this, he's
>as good as big men get in this business. He'd be a very
>believable opponent for Brock, if they actually allowed him to
>be. He's had a handful of top-shelf Hoss brawls that are
>believable, hard hitting, and high quality matches.
>
>No ladders or chairs needed, just a guy that will beat the
>ever loving dog shit out of someone- and who can also take
>that beating in return.
>
>Guys like Road Warriors, who were as over as over gets in
>their territory, could believably beat the piss out of people,
>but nowhere near the level of work rate as Sheamus. Even his
>top rope moves are power based. Put him in with any hoss, from
>any era, at any time, and he's as good or better.
>
>His persona is another story, but he's a top shelf worker IMO.
>
>
>And for Riddle, at his size, to put on a match that brutal,
>with a guy like Sheamus- and to dish out equally hard hitting
>offense like that? He deserves serious praise for that. And I
>hope the fans, and brass, took notice.
>
>The two main events rightly get their due. But this match was
>on par with those, work wise. Sheamus/Riddle lacks the extra
>story and character beats that made those matches the
>timeless, instant classics they are. But the work itself? holy
>hell. Fantastic.

As I was lamenting above, one of the things that makes him special is his size. He's not a big man, and he seems like he's in that HBK territory in terms of size and build, and he can do athletic things in the realm of traditional cruiserweights without the spectacle of being a huge man that can do backflips.

Instead, he's the reverse, the mid-sized guy who does backflips and wild shit from the ropes.... and can physically go toe to toe with the most brutal big men in the game.

Benoit was a smaller guy who could work strong like that, but not with that freakish athleticism.

Eddie might be the best comp here, though the two are stylistically different, but I don't recall Eddie quite this physical.

I think that Angle comparison is pretty apt.

The other thing is, to add to your praise of the current Hoss roster, is that I think these types of hard hitting matches are ultimately a bigger and better, more sustainable draw than the Attitude Era crash tv/ECW lite approach. Those matches have their place, but I'll take this, KO/Sami, and Rollins/Cesaro, all day, everyday.

Also... can you imagine a Cesaro/Riddle tag team?

Some of Riddle’s kicks were missing by a mile but being sold anyway. The big spot got botched. Riddle is clearly very athletic, but that character is awful.

I still don’t know why he flipped himself into the ring only to eat a knee. Just....get in the ring normally? What would the benefit of the flip have been. I hate flips, lol.

it's not the only issue, but christ, it is so difficult to look at.

>it's not the only issue, but christ, it is so difficult to
>look at.

It doesn't help.

There's lots of things. To me, the number one thing is that the pace of the matches are just wrong. He's supposed to be spooky and everpowerful but his matches almost never actually feel spooky. Or frantic. Or stressful in any way. Old Taker matches could get into this issue sometimes too but even with that, Taker would mess around and walk a rope, roll his eyse, do a dive, or at least sling out that badass flying clothesline he had. Or he'd get that apron leg drop during an era where folks weren't doing apron moves on half the matches at least. Then, once he added chokeslams, a powerbomb, a submission, the lie that he was some kind of major striker so that a few rib punches was a big deal, all of that? Shiiiid!

And when Taker hit your ass with that no-sell situp, the opponent would be like 'aww damnit!' and it would work about every time.

Bray is out here doing dramaless no-sells that don't lead to anything good.

AND

He lacks pick up the pace spots or 'oh, it's on NOW!' moves. Maybe he has the airless crossbody that isn't bad. But that about it. I'm not into the standing Rock Bottom even when he hits it right.

AND

He's having horrible/goofy match endings too!? C'mon mane!!!

And if that's not enough, he has the elaborate/slow/lots of cooperation needed finisher when he's not going with the claw or at least the 'gotcha bitch!' version of the Sister Abigail. And he's doing it in situations where he hasn't delivered anywhere near enough punishment for it to make sense that someone would stand around and let a mfer kiss their foreheads before eating the finisher. Meanwhile, most of the better workers on the roster are doing 'oops pow surprise!' striking finishers, big slams, and/or submissions.

Even with all of this hate in his direction, he could be fixed. Get in shape. Get about 5 moves that fit with the character being powerful and/or dangerous. Throat chop. Eddie Gilbert-style hotshot throat on the rope. Animal powerslam. Gutbuster. Dustin Rhodes falldown punch (but to the throat). SOMETHING! Quicker finisher. And easy on the silly finishes. You know it's bad when Broken Matt Hardy Cinematic matches generally had more viable match endings.

although i do know im in the very small minority of liking the red lighting over the whole match

but i feel like there's a massive tug of war behind the scenes on this storyline because they never actually fully explore any of the fun shit that comes from this.

I probably mentioned it at the time but I really think the way they fumbled the Wyatt family and his wave then, he would never fully recover from it

that mania match I have no idea how that gets to air. at no point does anyone point out that there's no resolution, or progression to the story. and because you end it w/ a tease sort of vibe w/ them staring at each other it pisses us off even more.

its just not coming together with him and he feels further off now than ever.

I figure they didn’t want to do a bunch of debuts this time. Maybe they didn’t have em ready. This is fine.

Charlotte’s promo was supposed to be the big shit of the show I’d guess. And it would’ve hit better with a crowd but she could’ve laid it in more snug per my ears. She did ring the bell with the ‘stop your favorites..’ shit. She said that shit like she read it online herself and got pissed about it. And I don’t know how she’s gonna do much of anything in that getup she wore. Maybe she’ll stop the moonsaults tho!

The opening was good times but they didn’t give Bro enough run. And it seemed like Lashley was taking some liberties with him..hopefully they had some agreements. And hopefully Bro getting that match was a good sign and not a bad one.

The triple threat was okay enough but they have some nerve running a triple threat right after the mania main event was so great.

I hate it for RR that she seemed to be the culprit for a gang of blown spots in the match tonight. Shit happens. Hopefully she doesn’t make it a habit. She didn’t seem blown up per se but damn girl!

And you know damn well I lost it over everything related to Wyatt/Orton. Everyone just moves onto the next shit the day after!? After all of that!? And Orton is cool to slide into a title shot match!? https://youtu.be/Ht9-x4s-W7M

Women’s tag stuff is still going rough.

And it seemed like there were too many mania winners not around on raw. Maybe I’m exaggerating that in my mind.

I get that Mania is a high ass high and coming down to the Raw after is always gonna be tough. But this shit tonight felt like a crash landing from a good ass mania.

I can also say with confidence that I’m not wanting to go any Raw after mania. I’d much rather make sure I’m at both nxt shows and some indy show in between nxt and mania.

>We have a 2-night NXT starting tonight.
>
>We have a 2-night Mania starting Saturday.
>
>We have a Jericho interview on WWE Network this weekend too.
>Oh hush, it is good for everyone if rasslin companies are less
>salty with one another. We all know that Jericho has been at
>it for 30-ish years, he's been everywhere, and maybe this
>cracks the door open for something even cooler down the road.
>
>Will Ospreay is the NJPW mega/ultra/whatever heavyweight champ
>now. Meanwhile, Ricochet, a man who can also do many elaborate
>flips, is in catering at WWE. Speaking of something cool,
>maybe WWE should just give Ricochet to AEW..the same way they
>ALLEGEDLY gave Christian Cage to TNA in exchange for Flair
>getting to do the HOF that one time.
>
>I'm AM salty that Ricochet, Street Profits, Nakamura and
>Bayley don't have real spots on Mania week. There's about to
>be like 15 hours of WWE rasslin this week and they couldn't
>find anything for these folks to do? At least with Charlotte,
>there's COVID and other shenanigans to point to.
>
>BUT
>
>There should still be lots of good stuff this week, so sift
>through it and enjoy yoself!

you watch Wrestlemania and it's a smorgasbord of the senses. It's 10 times more elaborate of a production than anything else we have in pop culture...it's like the Dangerous tour on steroids

and then, they get back to Raw and it's pretty clear they put the show together the day-of?

Like, if the WWE sold tomorrow to Disney or WME or whoever wouldn't Vince bag like $5 Billion?

It's remarkable really that this global entertainment enterprise, who puts on a spectacle as massive as Wrestlemania, who's valued in the billions, who's sitting on what is easily the most talented roster they've ever had...is this rudderless

>
>you watch Wrestlemania and it's a smorgasbord of the senses.
>It's 10 times more elaborate of a production than anything
>else we have in pop culture...it's like the Dangerous tour on
>steroids
>
>and then, they get back to Raw and it's pretty clear they put
>the show together the day-of?
>
>Like, if the WWE sold tomorrow to Disney or WME or whoever
>wouldn't Vince bag like $5 Billion?
>
>It's remarkable really that this global entertainment
>enterprise, who puts on a spectacle as massive as
>Wrestlemania, who's valued in the billions, who's sitting on
>what is easily the most talented roster they've ever had...is
>this rudderless

I'm not sure that they should've put in a new announce team for it either.

Not having a crowd was a notable difference too.

But I'm with you. I do not understand why they would purposely sandbag their own show to this degree. And yes, I think they know these shows aren't anywhere near as good as their PPVs and some of it is deliberate. But I also think that they don't get how much that kills off some of their talent.

Either way, I don't know how they don't appreciate how important their 'coming out of a big show' shows are. A good/frantic/fun RAW after Mania could set them up to have a reasonably excited fanbase into the summer as they continue to tell their stories.

The Raw I just saw put me in the frame of mind to tune out of Raw again until around Summerfest on everything that isn't Lashley-related.

I get that they can't overdo it and risk creating a show that they can't duplicate every week. AKA 'killing the territory' by burning through all of their good matches and stories too fast. But there was so much 'this shouldn't be able to make it onto any Raw' type stuff that it drove me crazy even with fast-forwarding.

And if Mania is super important, I don't appreciate not having more focus on every person who won their matches. Maybe I wanted too much coming out of a good Mania, WWE just does what they do no matter what, and it is up to me to recognize when I need to be in on it (NXT, a lil Smackdown, and PPVs) and when I need to ignore them. IE: I was already mostly skipping Raw outside of occasional look-ins to know who is mad at who. I should probably continue that unless I want to end up hating the best roster they've ever had. It's not fair to them cuz the rasslers are mostly top shelf. The show's philosophy/ridiculous inefficiency is the problem.

Rhea was crowned a new champion, but on the undercard

Lashley retained, but on the first match of the weekend

Fiend/Orton was a disaster

Those are your three biggest programs on your flagship show


Smackdown has organically become the A show, just cause it's on network television and features Reigns, the most important performer they've had since Cena. Look at the weekend Smackdown had:

Edge/Bryan/Reigns had an all time main event Sunday

Sasha/Belair had an all time main event Saturday and minted a new female star

not because of her but because the E aint exactly known for being the most supportive and sensitive work environment and she needs it. at least not on the main roster. the NXT folks really threw their arms around her. hopefully a Sasha or someone will take her under her wing and can help her get her main roster footing.

I was worried they were going to keep on going with the mopey, reluctant shit for Young Bucks, but it appears that they're going to have them be full dick-head heels. Which is at least a direction. And they appear to be at least be committed to the characters, switching their style in the ring. They've done the whole "steal the mask" thing a few times before, but it worked here. I also always figured that they were going to be the team to eventually break-up SCU, and now they can do it as heels for heat, instead of the "We really respect you guys!" angle.

The main problem is that now it's clear they're going to keep the belts for a while, and I REALLY wanted FTR to win them back soon.

Most of the rest of the show was solid. The Dax/Jericho max was decent. I assumed the Wargames/Blood and Guts was going to be on the PPV, but I guess it will be on Dynamite, which is sorta weird.

And now Christian at least has some direction. Hobbs is incredibly good at playing a shitheel as well. And aside from the overbooked interlude in the middle, the Darby/Hardy match started and end well enough.

They still have to figure out what to do with Omega.

among others

https://twitter.com/SeanRossSapp/status/1382768422908522497

Samoa Joe
Mickie James
Peyton Royce
Billie Kay
Chelsea Green
Wesley Blake
Tucker
Kalisto
Bo Dallas

>among others
>
>https://twitter.com/SeanRossSapp/status/1382768422908522497
>
>Samoa Joe
>Mickie James
>Peyton Royce
>Billie Kay
>Chelsea Green
>Wesley Blake
>Tucker
>Kalisto
>Bo Dallas

Joe is the big name, but I'm happy with that if he wasn't going to be allowed to stay on commentary. In my mind, I assume he can't get physically cleared in WWE to rassle. He's 42 so be ready to hear about how old he is if/when he shows up anywhere.

I mostly wanna know what went down with the IIconics. It's like someone REALLY didn't like them somewhere along the way. They just got shelved something ridiculous and it didn't seem like they did anything wrong per se.

Chelsea Green..seems like she never got a shot either.

Bo Dallas...I swear he was good times in NXT and early in his Raw run. Then, stuff came off the rails, he was never in great shape, and then he got shelved. I hoped he would show up somehow with Bray but NOPE! With guys like him, I assume WWE EXPECTS them to show up and ask for their release at some point. When they don't, WWE gets put in a bad spot where they eventually have to let someone go.

I'm guessing fine azz Mickie James is just too expensive cuz she can generally go and she's always over enough.

I wonder if they'll be more. I'm always hoping for Ricochet to get free and get back to doing elaborate flips somewhere while his face still has SOME value to it.

I REALLY wonder where Velveteen Dream is. Are they protecting him from bigtime personal/legal trouble while keeping him off TV? IE: maybe they know he'd get super sued if he was just out on the streets? I don't know. I just hope he gets it together because I loved him and wanted great things for him.

>>
>>Samoa Joe

wow. this one is kinda baffling even if he couldn't get cleared, but perhaps he makes too much to keep him on as a commentator.

>
>I mostly wanna know what went down with the IIconics. It's
>like someone REALLY didn't like them somewhere along the way.
>They just got shelved something ridiculous and it didn't seem
>like they did anything wrong per se.

with how much they struggle to make tag teams/get them over, they completely blew it with these 2. the most nonsensical breakup.

>
>Chelsea Green..seems like she never got a shot either.

I believe she's been injured for a while.

>I wonder if they'll be more. I'm always hoping for Ricochet to
>get free and get back to doing elaborate flips somewhere while
>his face still has SOME value to it.

I have a feeling they'll do the same thing for Ricochet that they do for Ziggler every time his contract is up: acknowledge that he's disgruntled, make him an offer he can't refuse, then do very little with him anyway.

but they were always funny as hell to me. on WWE programming and social media. they're just natural at being entertaining and w/ how much the WWE likes to cross promo they would be perfect.

you could have them host PPVs, do kooky backstage shit, Total Divas*, send them to an awards show for some red carpet shit. its very narrowminded to get rid of them

*if they did TD then I missed it. I havent watched it since Cameron was around w/ Naomi lol

I only just recently "got" them, but in their singles roles.

I actually loved Billy Kay playing off Carmella. I can't stand Carmella, but BK pulled off a very entertaining comedy gimmick.

I really hate to see AEW keep nabbing WWE castoffs, but they need to pick them up stat. They'll be a very good edition to their Women's division.

Somoa Joe too.

they're getting crowded over there though. I don't know how they can justify picking up anyone else, at least until fans return.

They're a creative mess right now. But I'd really like to see them all land in AEW, because I still believe they'll get their legs back under them once fans return.

He’s an instant main eventer if he’s healthy. Honestly, he’s a top 3 guy in either company if healthy IMO. Thought he was great on commentary for WWE too.

i assume they meddle a lot because i have no reason to believe the WWE can consistently put together good TV on their own

- most importantly, it’s only 2 hours

- it’s paced so well. There’s stretches of Raw that feel endless, those moments are lesser on Smackdown

- Reigns is so great


You’re right though, Fox must have their hand in it. It’s watchable. I understand that’s a low bar, but compared to Raw this version of Smackdown is a revelation

It was their re-entry into broadcast TV and “the Rock’s show” when it debuted.

Then there was the Smackdown Six era.

It was Smackdown where Becky Lynch’s run as The Man started.

And now we have the Head of the Table era.

>i assume they meddle a lot because i have no reason to
>believe the WWE can consistently put together good TV on their
>own

I can’t figure it out for sure. My current guess is that I like the show more because the best people on it are my favs and 2 hours instead of 3 means they won’t stretch a 5-minute segment into a 20-minute one most of the time. And that’s even with stuff like Bianca really going long yesterday. I love her, but c’mon you lovely hoss you...EST, you can do it if you keep trying, thanks Sasha, get that title baby, we want the smoke, leggo.

Right now, their Upper Midcard is pretty excellent too so that doesn’t hurt when you might get a random Sami Zayn/Daniel Bryan match in the middle of a show.

And I still fast fwd through hella stuff. IE: I hate that I miss most Street Profit matches cuz I don’t do Ziggler anything. And you know damn well I ain’t regularly watching Otis without Mandy Rose even tho his random 1-liners will get me sometimes.

I tell you what tho, I fucking love Head of the Table Roman Reigns. 3 years ago, I hated Vince for continuing to force Cena Jr-style Reigns on us. I was cussing angrily at Mania in New Orleans as he kept kicking out of F5s for instance. Now, this dude anchors a 2-hour show with one liners and face-making that have to make HHH jealous. And he’s only got one henchman and Paul as an all too willing gopher, and it still works. It also lets you know how cool Brock could’ve been if he could’ve been bothered to show up and try more. Him sitting in the chair looking annoyed/pissed/comfy and damn near whispering orders is the best shit going.

The best thing about him to me is that I know he can go when it’s go-time. He can pay off everything, even if he wins a match via cheating. Acknowledge me!? Oh man, that’s great heel shit. So good.

>I can’t figure it out for sure. My current guess is that I
>like the show more because the best people on it are my favs
>and 2 hours instead of 3 means they won’t stretch a 5-minute
>segment into a 20-minute one most of the time.

why are you stretching and dragging so much stuff, when you have all these wrestlers just on the shelf not doing shit. and the ones you do use on Raw barely have a story anyway.

thats why i figured Fox had to be meddling. its hard for me to watch the production of Raw vs the production of Smackdown and process it being from the same company. independent of the talent on either show, cause yall know I do not care for Roman. however i'll give him credit he is legit now what they tried to make him back then.

>i assume they meddle a lot because i have no reason to
>believe the WWE can consistently put together good TV on their
>own

I think it’s more like a handshake deal of when the “WWE Draft” rolls around they tell Vince they want Roman and a handful of others guaranteed on their show.

WWE has done puff piece docs forever, including stuff on Austin. But never have I seen them so openly acknowledge how short his run was, how unhealthy his lifestyle was in his prime, and the negative effects his ascent and run had on his kids.

And still, it’s telling that the only thing he really gets choked up at was being forced to retire. He says he’s getting emotional during the neck injury part but he doesn’t physically look unsettled. And when he mentions his daughters he admits he was a shitty father but he doesn’t seem all that discomforted by it either. I found it fascinating that the part that stirred him up the most emotionally was the part about going into Mania 19 knowing it was his last match.

but i've never felt like they havent acknowledged how short Austin's run was (or Rock for that matter). i think its that he just actually stayed gone.

it's like a rapper retiring, and actually retiring

As big as Cena was, Austin and Rock were both bigger and at the exact same time.

I’ll tell anyone who will listen that the Mania 19 match of theirs may be their best - and that’s coming after 17, which is the very best main event of the Attitude Era.

The 19 Austin/Rock match is art. Even without knowing it was Austin’s last match it’s clear that his fire is extinguishing, while Rock by then had one foot out the door. The moment at the end is the cherry on top.

>As big as Cena was, Austin and Rock were both bigger and at
>the exact same time.
>
>I’ll tell anyone who will listen that the Mania 19 match of
>theirs may be their best - and that’s coming after 17, which
>is the very best main event of the Attitude Era.
>
>The 19 Austin/Rock match is art. Even without knowing it was
>Austin’s last match it’s clear that his fire is
>extinguishing, while Rock by then had one foot out the door.
>The moment at the end is the cherry on top.

I'm with you.

When Cena lays it down for good one of these days, it is going to be cool to have honest convos about him. Now, it seems like his worst stuff is still too fresh in all of our minds. The Cenawinslol stuff was hard on my rasslin soul for instance. And everyone who was supposed to be his Savage/Rock/other guy had so many apparent warts that Cena won't be able to elevate from that either. His 'good matches with new hires and stars on the way out' era was the king shit tho. AJ. Owens. Rollins. Daniel Bryan. All of those matches were excellentay. In that way, he gave quite a bit more than Hogan. And probably a tad more than even Austin who showed a gang of azz for guys like Jericho and Benoit in his last couple of years. I remember him wrestling Benoit on free TV 2x in one week. He must've eaten 15 rolling germans like a champ.

The Mania 19 match was basically in the middle of the show so it makes sense that folks fade it at least a little bit. And anything that doesn't have that Limp Bizkit My Way video package like 17 did is gonna seem less major!

I've lived a long life in the camp of 'Austin is a big-time worker'. He is much more of a good nerd-style worker than he gets credit for. He was basically hurt for AT LEAST 2/3 of his core run and he didn't do a bunch of acrobatic stuff OR a bunch of different stuff. But that's a smart way to work when you're friggin hurt all the time and you're outlandishly over. And I'm saying this about an Attitude era main eventer who ate chair shots and table spots on a reg. And he wasn't above some 80s southern blading too. And he was regularly working with folks who were somehow compromised too. Big guys. Small guys. Hurt guys. Green guys. Vince and them. Even Rock and Haitch were on their way up more than they were accomplished and polished workers.

But really...if Kenny, Rollins, or even the guys from around that era could be over like rover just by their music hitting, showing up, walking hard af, making faces, and having folks react to you like the damn boogie man cuz you're a known agent of chaos and disruption, they would do it too! Hell, that's kinda what Roman is masterfully doing right now. He's strut-walking his ass off, saying snide shit at all times, and making excellent faces. Brock tried to do it too but he half-assed it a bit too much and most of us got tired of it even when he showed up.

a broad introduction to Stone Cold for the uninitiated.
I was surprised to see him be so candid about his relationship w/ his daughters though. I never knew he even had kids. Wild to hear him process calling his daughter and she has a London accent instead of a Texas accent because she had lived over there for so long. and they were disconnected w/ each other.

watching this actually made me really want a Rock/Austin rivalry doc. take this structure and blow it out to 10 hours on some Last Dance shit. with this same high production quality, big variety of interviews, and lots/lots of archive footage. hopefully w/ them interviewed together instead of 2 separate ones. i'd like to see them bounce off each other

>

I hope the other ones are anywhere near this good. I thoroughly enjoyed it and the run-time went by fast af.

And yeah, I like that everyone somewhat clearly agreed that his run wasn’t as long as some others. The crazy thing about that? He missed a lot of time with injuries even during that ‘shorter’ run.

I do think folks should admit that his run was physically insane compared to some of the softer parts of some people’s runs. Ie: think of some parts of Hogan’s runs where he did more appearing than working. And it’s a stretch to call some of the squash matches during the 80s actual working compared to some of the out of hand tv matches folks throw out now. It makes more sense now due to no house shows but still.

The part about Owen where they make it clear that they talked about the piledriver spot beforehand was also wild and crazy. I regularly wonder how ridiculously good Austin’s run could’ve been if not for the major injuries. And I’m one of the folks who think his in-ring work is overlooked for how nuanced it could be..especially during his insecure heel days.

cesaro, rollins, bryan, the healthy uso talking shit and fighting. roman pops in for a bit

I just came in here to post Roman’s quote ... “you’re top tier losers, you’re main event losers”

Dude

“Main event losers” is borderline Rock circa ‘99 roastage. It’a a travesty that Roman’s doing this elite work without crowds.

Seriously, the way he drops down in tone is JUST. PERFECT.

i saw up to the La Cucaracha as the Mexican National Anthem bit so maybe 30 mins in then i flipped to the Oscars. can't imagine the energy in the crowd there lol. whewwww

they could make Riddle a star w/ this
- they win the belts
- eventually have him become the dominant guy of the tag team by august. they may win matches w/o Randy even having to tag in. to legitimize Riddle as a solo guy
- Randy's happy and said he saw a bunch of potential in him but then riddle starts acting like a dick over the fall.
- randy hits him w/ the RKO around halloween and starts vet moving him in a rivalry thru Xmas. teaching him, but getting revenge too.
- Riddle hits rock bottom in the rivalry around the turn of the year (Royal Rumble i guess) and then battles back up to beat Randy at Mania. lethal, established, still a Bro outside the ring but now "savvy" in the ring

I cracked up at the backstage part

Riddle needs to eventually Get more serious and Randy could stand to lighten up, so this works

its only 30 mins in so far but this is a fucking blast.

loved the bit w/ his costume designer being the same guy that used to dress pimps in the 70s. his gear really is total pimp shit

They did him dirty unlike the way they portrayed equally flawed Austin and Piper.

But he's who's left. Elizabeth is gone. Doubt his widow wanted to talk to anyone. So you get these Tampa weirdos and Lanny/Mama Poffo.

“Randy and Ricky weren’t going in to overshadow me and Andre”
“Oh we absolutely wanted to have the match of the night and steal the show from them.”

Randy got fucking torched. And they didn’t say SHIT about Austin’s relationship with Debra.

>Randy got fucking torched. And they didn’t say SHIT about
>Austin’s relationship with Debra.

I was surprised at how much praise it got. It was fine as a career retrospective, but to lightly touch on "family issues" and never mention Debra or domestic violence? FOH. They probably only got to interview him if they agreed not to bring it up.

where they may not even be allowed to bring it up.

Also he was convicted of it (albeit after pleading no contest) and had an allegation from another woman, so I don’t think there’s much tip toeing they need to do. IMO there’s no reason not to mention it unless that’s part of the deal for getting the interview with Austin in the first place and you don’t think your doc will be complete without the interview. I understand why an interviewer would agree to those terms, but then that automatically makes it a puff piece no matter how much “I was a bad dad and I drank a lot” stuff you sprinkle in.

“That’s a suplex of the top rope as far as death goes.” Dude, fuck off.

I haven't seen it but I caught the gist of what he said and the other issues with it. Probably will not watch.

I know they're hiring different people to make each of these, so I think A&E is basically hands off. If you want to make a puff piece, go for it. If you want to make an inaccurate hit piece, go for it.

You got a lot of early footage of Savage, especially the ICW stuff.

The stuff about the WWF years was good, but if anything, they probably undersold just how popular he was. Especially how quickly he had to come back after being "forced to retire."

Yeah, there was a lot of Hogan, and he's full of shit, but as said above, there's not a lot of others from that era left. However, I could have lived without all the screen-time devoted to their heat during the early '00s. 50 Cent endorsing Savage's project was funny tho.

And I kind of appreciated the stuff with Gorgeous George. Whatever "complicated" relationship that she had with the guy, she seemed to want to keep most of it out of the spotlight.

I at least understood Bubba the Love Sponge being there. Dan Soder was useless.

When they were talking about the real life heat between Hulk and Savage. But he didn't need to be all through the doc.

>I at least understood Bubba the Love Sponge being there. Dan
>Soder was useless.

But his comments recently have been really interesting. Looks like he may have lost his smile, if you will. Whatever his next move is I think some time away would be really good for him and is obviously well-deserved. He’s wrestled a lot more often than I thought he would when he came back.

That would be as close to a Lex Luger on Nitro moment as they could get.

Were I Tony Kahn, I'd be offering a big ass check for just the one appearance, hoping to land him full time.

I think a move like that would be enough to pique Punk's interest.

I really don't like to see them getting all the ex WWE guys, but Bryan is a big deal.

Shit, Bryan/Kota would be great too.

At this point, they've squeezed most of the juice there is to squeeze out of Daniel Bryan haven't they?

So then who would be a better global ambassador for WWE than Daniel Bryan. Not just a guy who flies around the world and talks about how great WWE is, but a guy who actually goes out and DOES it, who proves that WWE's athletes are as good as Japan's or Mexico's and in turn alters the perception of how WWE guys can perform. I think WWE would need to stress to him the importance of being safe, but I also think at his age with two kids and a litany of surgeries behind him he'd be responsible enough on his own too.

If you're Vince, you keep him under contract, away from AEW, and use him as your global wrestling mascot. Both the WWE and DB would come out of that unique arrangement feeling like they've both won. Promise him X amounts of international dates a year and make him contractually obligated to appear at Wrestlemania and Summerslam.

The counterpoint is that it sets a precedent. "You let Daniel Bryan work the Tokyo Dome, why can't I?" I get it. But you make this one-time exception and you deal with the rest of the boys on a case by case basis. (Hell, they should do this with AJ Styles too).

He'd become a traveling attraction who can GO, somewhere between Bruno Sammartino and Bret Hart.

Impact and AAA have a whole thing going, and AEW has at least a handshake agreement with New Japan- Mox is defending the US Title on an upcoming Dynamite.

but I think he could do one-offs elsewhere where both Bryan and the WWE get paid for his appearance.

I mean there'd be a lot of red tape to work through, but Daniel Bryan vs Okada wouldn't do numbers?

I'd bar him from doing AEW, and review every other opportunity on a case by case basis.

If he’s in the G1 getting dropped on his head and neck every night it’ll be pretty uncomfortable

>

Wwe should let him (and a few others) do it. If more people watch and enjoy wrestling, WWE is ultimately going to win out on it more than any other wrestling company on earth. This is clear and obvious to me. And I think Vince knows it too. IE: all of the podcasts out there, Dark Side of the ring, Jericho on Stone Cold podcast, all of that tells me that wwe generally gets that good wrestling stuff anywhere generally leads back to them somehow someway. Every other company is basically a farm system. It is also a testing ground for stuff that wwe can figure out how to steal and execute about as well if not obviously better. Ie: Matt Hardy movie matches. Ie2: all of the smaller indy main event guys that wwe snapped up who now have made nxt wonderful and helped fill out every main roster card wwe does for like the last 10 years.

To me, this should be the next phase..cutting some guys to let them free and working out deals with a Daniel Bryan to let him keep doing his wwe reality show shit but letting him go work in other places with some kind of notice/heads up...kinda like the Jericho stuff with New Japan but better cuz Bryan is like 10 years younger and can still fucking go without smoke and mirrors.

BUT

If the old school stuff and the ‘everything is mine’ Americana bullshit wins out, this won’t happen, Bryan will eventually sign again with WWE, work a mostly meaningless schedule on Raw, and folks will be saying he’s not good anymore after 3 more years of WWE wasting his remaining ring time. Maybe he’ll keep lurking around in production meetings and fix things from that angle?

AJ styles got mentioned as a part of this discussion already. And how about it. He’s been mostly useless since he gave Taker a great exit point movie match. It is very easy to forget how fun his post-TNA/pre-WWE existence was. Dude was everywhere working a bunch of good matches and it was a party...especially the New Japan shit.

It had major heat in the beginning. The Pinnacle coming out all in white, while the Inner Circle rocked the jail suit was pretty bad-ass. They absolutely sold the hatred for each other. And the violence was pretty awesome for the most part. Some really great "Oh shit!" spots.

I think the big problem was it should have been the PPV, rather than TV. The ads REALLY fucked for the matches flow and dampen some of the impact. So Wardlow coming in and whopping the four Inner Circle at the same time did get to land right. Or FTR ripping up the ring. Or Tully Blanchard knocking out the ref to let out MJF. Having it on TV would have eliminated a lot of the standing around, especially towards the end.

I also didn't love how the match ended. And I don't mean Jericho getting thrown off the cage after it was over. Some are complaining about how fake it looked, but as others are pointing out, Hardy splatting himself on the concrete last summer was a really bad look.

I don't know if there's any type of rematch you do after this. And if there is, the Pinnacle should win that too.

Otherwise, the rest of the top of the card for AEW is a fucking mess. I have no idea where they're going with Moxley & Kingston vs. Omega, especially when they're deciding to go Omega/Orange Cassidy for the PPV. I guess they put Moxley and Kingston vs. the Bucks at the PPV, but I don't think that becomes a great match.

Mostly I think it had the same issue as War games matches: it's impossible to get the camera work exactly right.

>
>I also didn't love how the match ended. And I don't mean
>Jericho getting thrown off the cage after it was over. Some
>are complaining about how fake it looked, but as others are
>pointing out, Hardy splatting himself on the concrete last
>summer was a really bad look.

I agree, the hostage negotiation ending was anti-climactic after everything that preceded it, especially when MJF was obviously gonna throw him off anyway (but they waited a couple minutes for some reason). I do prefer a fake looking spot to some dangerous shit that could end a career, but it was a dud as far as crowd reaction goes.

>
>I don't know if there's any type of rematch you do after this.
>And if there is, the Pinnacle should win that too.

Maybe they're done with the feud, and that'd be fine, but I'd like to see them split off into individual feuds that play out over the next few weeks. Wardlowe vs. Hager, Sammy vs. Spears, Santana/Ortiz vs. FTR, then it culminates with another MJF vs. Jericho match at Double or Nothing.

I have no idea where they're going with Moxley &
>Kingston vs. Omega, especially when they're deciding to go
>Omega/Orange Cassidy for the PPV. I guess they put Moxley and
>Kingston vs. the Bucks at the PPV, but I don't think that
>becomes a great match.

Yeah, I'm similarly confused about the direction here. Mox is out of the title picture and Kingston is no threat to Omega. I think Mox/Kingston can be a decent tag team, but I don't have any desire to see them against the Bucks. I guess them vs. the Good Bros is a little more interesting, but not by much.

Also that Omega/Orange segment was weird. I mostly like Orange's character, but he's just gonna stand there, take that abuse, and let them steal his sunglasses with no retort? Plus Kenny was all over the place. Let Callis do 90% of Omega's talking please!

>Mostly I think it had the same issue as War games matches:
>it's impossible to get the camera work exactly right.

I think that they did a mostly a good job. They missed Jericho get the bat. And solely focusing on what was going on at the top of the cage at the very end felt weird. The commercials breaks made it even more choppy.


>Maybe they're done with the feud, and that'd be fine, but I'd
>like to see them split off into individual feuds that play out
>over the next few weeks. Wardlowe vs. Hager, Sammy vs. Spears,
>Santana/Ortiz vs. FTR, then it culminates with another MJF vs.
>Jericho match at Double or Nothing.

I agree it'd be fine the feud was over for now. They might want to have Sammy beat Spears at Double or Nothing to officially set him up for his next move. Wardlow has already beaten Hager, but if they want to give him another really decisive victory, that'll work. But I'm not sure if there's any point in doing FTR vs. Santana & Ortiz if it doesn't set them up to go against and beat the Bucks next.



>Also that Omega/Orange segment was weird. I mostly like
>Orange's character, but he's just gonna stand there, take that
>abuse, and let them steal his sunglasses with no retort? Plus
>Kenny was all over the place. Let Callis do 90% of Omega's
>talking please!

Ye gods, keep Omega away from the mic. He really, REALLY can't sell being a heel champion when he's not actually wrestling. That segment was pretty bad overall.

They've got a tremendous knack for getting right up against greatness and then shitting the bed spectacularly. That ending was just so dumb and Vince-tastic.

JUST HAVE YOUR HOTSHOT YOUNG HEEL PIN JERICHO

Don't overthink it, don't make bad actors act, just do the obvious thing ok?


and goddamn Omega is probably the worst actor on the show. He tells Schiavone "I don't even want to be here"...ok, then why are you here? Why be a champion at all? Go play video games then dude

why cant skits just die? they are never good, the interruption is expected rather than a surprise, and no one actually talks like that.

now theyve got Scorpio Sky doing the generic indie heel thing the Bucks and Omega do with the sing songy promos and prancey manner of movement. nobody acts like that.

None of those people have any business out there if they cant just talk into the camera and make someone care

The promo he cut on the Bucks was fucking brilliant: https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=4148027611913679&_rdr

Not to sound obtuse, but I’m shocked he made it to 58. That MF was crazy as fuck, both in terms of what he did to his body and the types of stuff that he put in it.

Besides the insane amounts of violence he could dish and take, he could cut a helluva promo. The type of stuff had said while he was in SMW could have gotten him killed at the time. As Cornette said, he was probably at little too ahead of his time back then.

In front of a crowd full of racist shit-kickers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lXuIh_2hmE

>In front of a crowd full of racist shit-kickers:
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lXuIh_2hmE

they really really built up that arm injury like he's going to be off TV. i think Cesaro has the best ring chemistry w/ Roman from what I've seen at least. great match.

that zombie shit was silly as hell too. didnt really pay attention to the rest of the night.

They’ve got the perfect chance to build to that. Leave him off TV for a bit, have him come back and take care of Rollins, and then get the title at SS.

The arm psychology was brilliant even with Cole and McAfee HAMMERING it into the ground.

Roman talking shit was fantastic. “I love wrestling! This is fun for me!” “You wanted this? I got a LOOTTT of responsibilities.” “This is DB style, y’all. I hope you’re sitting and watching this…” just aces all around.

As much as I didn’t love the post-match shit, if this means Cesaro is on a looooong build to maybe a Rumble win/conquering hero in Dallas? Shiiiiiiiiiiiit.

Maybe he’ll develop over time, but I think he’d be better suited for a manager/occasional wrestler role.

I get what he’s trying to do, which is talk about big-game mentality and add a bit of sports verite in there. And the constant “bad arm” stuff was probably Bruce and the Old Man in their ear. The one really rough patch was him going “it ain’t gonna happen for Cesaro” to “now I believe” after a powerbomb kickout. Like I know this is a new Roman but is he putting dudes down with powerbombs like that?

>The arm psychology was brilliant even with Cole and McAfee
>HAMMERING it into the ground.
>
>Roman talking shit was fantastic. “I love wrestling! This is
>fun for me!” “You wanted this? I got a LOOTTT of
>responsibilities.” “This is DB style, y’all. I hope
>you’re sitting and watching this…” just aces all around.
>
>
>As much as I didn’t love the post-match shit, if this means
>Cesaro is on a looooong build to maybe a Rumble win/conquering
>hero in Dallas? Shiiiiiiiiiiiit.

Yes. I LOVED this match. If people can get past the disdain for this era of wrestling and/or concerns about ratings or whatever and just look at some of these baller ass matches that we're getting, this is one of those matches that could stand up VERY well.

It kinda reminds me of early 90s WCW..no one GAF about it, but there were some top end rasslers lurking around doing good work in between some actively putrid stuff from green bad folks, vets who were ridiculously over the hill name guys, and other general WCW stank.

Starting on August 13, they'll have AEW: Rampage, a one-hour Friday show.

Starting in 2022, it looks like both shows are moving to TBS, which is 1) a lateral move and 2) expected, given that Turner picked up the NHL.

But they also announced they'll still be doing four "mega shows" a year on TNT. So, those will probably like Beach Blast, Fyter Fest, Blood & Guts, the New Years' show, etc.

They've been talking about adding another show for a while. Roster is big enough (and likely getting bigger) to justify it. Keeping the new show to an hour is good.

>Starting on August 13, they'll have AEW: Rampage, a one-hour
>Friday show.
>
>Starting in 2022, it looks like both shows are moving to TBS,
>which is 1) a lateral move and 2) expected, given that Turner
>picked up the NHL.
>
>But they also announced they'll still be doing four "mega
>shows" a year on TNT. So, those will probably like Beach
>Blast, Fyter Fest, Blood & Guts, the New Years' show, etc.
>
>They've been talking about adding another show for a while.
>Roster is big enough (and likely getting bigger) to justify
>it. Keeping the new show to an hour is good.

Yes. I generally like 1-hour shows. It's tough to have a bunch of fluff on those and you can take a chance or two as long as you keep it fast. Once you get into 2-hours and lawd hammercy 3, you're almost guaranteed to have situations where you have some pointless rasslin or some 15 minute-talking runs that could've easily been 6 minutes of talking. Or in-show recaps, which is basically the worst unless you save it for crazy stuff like when Brock showed up and flipped over the announce table onto the announcers to write him off for a while.

Had to figure it was coming. Haitch said he was nursing a bunch of injuries but the allegations couldn’t have helped his standing. I got worried when they said that dude hadn’t been around the performance center for several months.

All I know is that kid was my jam as a wrestler. I hope he gets his shit together, and we get like 20 years of him being dope somehow someway. He’s 25 right now.

Give me that dude in New Japan. He could be their replacement Nakamura..a bunch of theatrical shenanigans but could also put it the fuck down in the ring if he’s healthy. Dream valley drivers, badass elbow drops, elaborate ddt, plus whatever indy moves he’d throw into his mix and it’s on.

>We have a 2-night NXT starting tonight.
>
>We have a 2-night Mania starting Saturday.
>
>We have a Jericho interview on WWE Network this weekend too.
>Oh hush, it is good for everyone if rasslin companies are less
>salty with one another. We all know that Jericho has been at
>it for 30-ish years, he's been everywhere, and maybe this
>cracks the door open for something even cooler down the road.
>
>Will Ospreay is the NJPW mega/ultra/whatever heavyweight champ
>now. Meanwhile, Ricochet, a man who can also do many elaborate
>flips, is in catering at WWE. Speaking of something cool,
>maybe WWE should just give Ricochet to AEW..the same way they
>ALLEGEDLY gave Christian Cage to TNA in exchange for Flair
>getting to do the HOF that one time.
>
>I'm AM salty that Ricochet, Street Profits, Nakamura and
>Bayley don't have real spots on Mania week. There's about to
>be like 15 hours of WWE rasslin this week and they couldn't
>find anything for these folks to do? At least with Charlotte,
>there's COVID and other shenanigans to point to.
>
>BUT
>
>There should still be lots of good stuff this week, so sift
>through it and enjoy yoself!

He has it all, and his deliberately androgynous behavior seemed especially perfect for the times. Plus he’s from Maryland so i was obviously pulling for him.

Here’s hoping he figures it out. He’s young.

A year ago I was among those that thought he was doing a slow heel turn, but now it’s clear he’s actually just delusional. That promo from a couple weeks ago was the icing on the cake.

He’s not all bad of course, he just thinks he can do more than he can. He tells some good stories, especially with people he has a personal connection to. The problem is he thinks he can elevate lesser known guys, indie talent, etc. just by them being in the ring with (and losing to) him. Man... to parody HHH and then become a worse version of him? That sucks!

Not that Ogogo was impressive or anything. If anything, this win made more sense than some other Cody wins, but the spot it was given had me scratching my head. Ogogo wasn’t ready and Cody doesn’t have enough charisma to put it over on his own. The American Dream schtick sank like a stone in 2021. I thought the Florida crowd would eat it up, but not really.

Like, Cody vs. Ogogo was clearly the lowlight of the night, and the "American Dream" shit went over like a wet fart (It'll go over worse the more that they travel outside of the red states). And either Ogogo wasn't ready or Cody was the wrong person for him to work with in this situation. Or both.

That said, I thoroughly enjoyed that show. Opener of Page vs. Cage was white hot. Tag team title match was crazy over and Moxley and Kngston were clearly having a blast. Battle Royale was a bit meandering and lacking in star power, but I was very happy Jungle Boy is going to get his shot. Plus, Lio Rush is a dope pick-up. Archer vs. Miro was a solid hoss fight. Baker finally getting the title was great. Sting/Allin vs. Page/Sky waaaay over-delivered. Omega/Pac/Orange was much better than I ever expected it would be, especially considering the build-up was shit. And the Stadium Stampede features a lot more viciousness, and turned Sammy into a star.

So yeah, Cody is kinda useless and only seems sorta committed to doing any of this anymore. But the rest of the roster pretty thoroughly delivers in the ring when the chips are down.

As I’ve said before Jon Moxley is not my cup of tea, but there’s no denying the reaction they got. The night really kind of started there. I think it would’ve been weird for the Bucks to lose and Omega win but had Mox/EK won I would’ve been fight with it the crowd was ready for it.

The appeal of the Orange Cassidy gimmick is totally lost on me but I think PAC is just fantastic. If I were identifying my top 5 guys to build AEW around he’d be in that crop. He does everything Omega does with twice as much visual intensity.

That show just needed a little less wrestling. Scrap the battle royal, scrap Miro/Archer, give Cody way less time and it’s a tighter show. Overall though yea it was very enjoyable. And MJF/Jericho fighting through Urban Meyer and Charlie Strong’s office was a pretty inspired idea...”holy shit” - Urb

Although the Battle Royale is a bit of a mess every time. I don’t dig the groups format and the camerawork could be much crisper. Those are minor complaints though. All the other matches worked for me and I was pretty happy with the results.

>Like, Cody vs. Ogogo was clearly the lowlight of the night,
>and the "American Dream" shit went over like a wet fart (It'll
>go over worse the more that they travel outside of the red
>states).

I think it really was a one off, but either way he’s gotta change some things if he wants to remain a face. I’ve heard some boos for Cody from the pandemic crowds, but I don’t think they made an impression on him.

Midsouth wrestling/nwa/occasional TNa watching me smiled on the inside at the idea that Sting can still be out there. I have failed to read up properly on how his injury went from ‘he’s gotta quit yawl’ to he’s out here doing most of what he was doing 5-10 years ago. But I’m glad he’s okay.

The main event triple threat seemed excellent to me. I think I ‘get’ Orange Cassidy without wanting every wrestler to do the same thing. And I get the impression that he can fucking go because he has delivered every time they’ve given him a spot. And of course Pac and Omega weren’t the type to underdeliver as wrestlers.

Omega is a curious figure and I have it in my head now that he’s missing something in terms of character/mannerisms. But I try not to spend too much time on it. I love that finisher of his. That’s for sure.

>Like, Cody vs. Ogogo was clearly the lowlight of the night,
>and the "American Dream" shit went over like a wet fart (It'll
>go over worse the more that they travel outside of the red
>states). And either Ogogo wasn't ready or Cody was the wrong
>person for him to work with in this situation. Or both.
>
>That said, I thoroughly enjoyed that show. Opener of Page vs.
>Cage was white hot. Tag team title match was crazy over and
>Moxley and Kngston were clearly having a blast. Battle Royale
>was a bit meandering and lacking in star power, but I was very
>happy Jungle Boy is going to get his shot. Plus, Lio Rush is a
>dope pick-up. Archer vs. Miro was a solid hoss fight. Baker
>finally getting the title was great. Sting/Allin vs. Page/Sky
>waaaay over-delivered. Omega/Pac/Orange was much better than I
>ever expected it would be, especially considering the build-up
>was shit. And the Stadium Stampede features a lot more
>viciousness, and turned Sammy into a star.
>
>So yeah, Cody is kinda useless and only seems sorta committed
>to doing any of this anymore. But the rest of the roster
>pretty thoroughly delivers in the ring when the chips are
>down.
>
>
>
>

>
>Omega is a curious figure and I have it in my head now that
>he’s missing something in terms of character/mannerisms. But
>I try not to spend too much time on it. I love that finisher
>of his. That’s for sure.
>

The over-the-top entrance. The obnoxious posse. The annoying manager you just wanna strangle. The fact that you can't deny he's really fucking good. It all works.

And then he gets on the mic and the mystique disappears. It's almost like he's focused more on the cadence and not on the content of his promos. Idk, it's weird. But at least you're gonna get 4 star minimum for every title match.

That's it..I'll roll with your rundown for now. It is probably the promos. And maybe in 2021, it is just harder to get away with having that type of flaw.

I think back to HBK and I still feel pretty strongly that he wasn't that great of a promo guy and WWE did a bang-up job of video packaging his stuff in a way that made it seem like he was. And, like Kenny, you knew the matches were gonna be nuanced goodness at least even if the opponent was nothing special.

>>
>>Omega is a curious figure and I have it in my head now that
>>he’s missing something in terms of character/mannerisms.
>But
>>I try not to spend too much time on it. I love that finisher
>>of his. That’s for sure.
>>
>
>The over-the-top entrance. The obnoxious posse. The annoying
>manager you just wanna strangle. The fact that you can't deny
>he's really fucking good. It all works.
>
>And then he gets on the mic and the mystique disappears. It's
>almost like he's focused more on the cadence and not on the
>content of his promos. Idk, it's weird. But at least you're
>gonna get 4 star minimum for every title match.

>I think back to HBK and I still feel pretty strongly that he
>wasn't that great of a promo guy and WWE did a bang-up job of
>video packaging his stuff in a way that made it seem like he
>was. And, like Kenny, you knew the matches were gonna be
>nuanced goodness at least even if the opponent was nothing
>special.

Shawn could sorta talk but his problem was he thought he was way funnier than he actually was. I guess that worked fine for the attitude era but does not look good in retrospect. And yeah, WWE video packages can make anyone look like a million bucks.

>
>>I think back to HBK and I still feel pretty strongly that he
>>wasn't that great of a promo guy and WWE did a bang-up job
>of
>>video packaging his stuff in a way that made it seem like he
>>was. And, like Kenny, you knew the matches were gonna be
>>nuanced goodness at least even if the opponent was nothing
>>special.
>
>Shawn could sorta talk but his problem was he thought he was
>way funnier than he actually was. I guess that worked fine for
>the attitude era but does not look good in retrospect. And
>yeah, WWE video packages can make anyone look like a million
>bucks.

Don’t get me wrong. I love him too but I can love him and admit that he had some warts. I wish folks could do the same for some of the newer guys (see the warts but enjoy the good) but I think we get caught up sometimes. We’ve seen too much. We know too much. There’s been too many glossy documentaries! Add in that we’re stuck in the culture of complaining and it’s tough.

That’s why I’m constantly begging folks to go back and watch old shows..the whole shows. It will be clear that we had some shaky stuff back in the day too. Bad camera angles. Blown spots. Goofy finishes. Good wrestlers going through rough patches, all of that.

A random crazy thing: wcw had some wildly good rasslin going on all through the 90s.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10004566-braun-strowman-aleister-black-lana-murphy-more-released-from-wwe-contracts

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10004566-braun-strowman-aleister-black-lana-murphy-more-released-from-wwe-contracts

They released Braun Strowman!?

They also released Aleister Black right after they finally let him out of the promo closet to actually do something. He's good enough to be useful elsewhere in my opinion. And he's not old/done/washed/whatever. He's healthy, trimmed down, and ready to roll.

Also, Ruby Riott, Lana, Santan Garrett, and Buddy Murphy got let go.

Ruby, in my eyes, always seemed to deserve better than what she got even though injuries didn't help. I hope she gets a good spot somewhere.

Buddy Murphy is good and he's 32. And he's a good match machine who could be fun if he just shows up somewhere and cranks out the good matches and is at least occasionally taken seriously. Kinda like Neville/Pac.

But again...Braun Strowman!? There has to be a story there. I just wonder how much of it we'll hear. And will folks be ready to force him into retirement/cancellation over it. Imagine what kind of money he is going to fetch as a free agent if some ridiculously bad story doesn't come out about him.

He is the type who could show up on AEW, slam Kenny Omega damn near through the ring at the beginning of an episode and then just be champ for 2 years. No train noises and shit either. Just a big ass dude whooping everyone's ass and people coming up with all sorts of shit to try to beat him until someone finally figures out a way to get the title away from him. He could do the same thing in New Japan too. Now we wait to see what the story is.

Fuck the Mark Henry's and Big Shows.

Right now, they have big-time, main event talent.

Strowman had a window where it looked like he was primed to be a mega star, and they shit the bed with him. More than once, in fact.

He's still a little too fee-fi-fo-fum for me, but he's a Hoss's Hoss.

He's not in the same class as Sheamus (honestly, Sheamus is a GOAT level Hoss as far as his ability to have excellent matches. Character is another story), but he's very, very good.

He has to go to AEW, get a crony or three (looking at you, Murphy), and eat some motherfuckers alive for a year straight.

Lana gets to reunite with Rusev. That's a great tandem, and they should update the Rusev/Lana gimmick, sans the foreign menace element. That's a top shelf act IMO.

And Black? I'm geeked. I need him in AEW. He's among the very best there is in all aspects of this shit IMO and he's a revelation waiting to happen.

You want 2021 CM Punk? That's the fucking guy, right there: Tommy End.

Which is a way, way, way better fucking name.

Kahn better open up the checkbook NOW, and I don't really care if a few scrubs have to get cut to make room.

This is a big deal.

Eventually some god damn GEMS are gonna be available and you might not have room/budget/tv time.

Braun is a must hire. An absolute monster with a solid personality who can work really well given his size. He was super over organically, but became another casualty of WWE ignoring everybody the crowd loved in favor of Roman.

Black is an obvious match made in heaven for AEW.

Ruby will be a huge plus in a women's division that needs the talent.

Lana you may as well since you already have Rusev.

And Murphy has developed into a real solid worker on the main roster over the last few years after being just another dude in NXT.

I think he's an excellent pickup, and not just to have a Name to work matches. I think he's a net positive to the entire roster.

So you get a guy like that every time. Maybe don't hype him up so much, because a fair amount of the things that make him such a great hire have nothing to do with what we see from him on camera.

Show and Henry I like too. But they gotta pull back on cats like that.

It's a trip because they look bloated, and like they could use a little more top heavy talent, all at once.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. No Daniel Bryan necessary (well, if you can get him too!? Okay!). This is potentially a big ass deal that SHOULD lead to much better rasslin going on somewhere. AEW. New Japan. Impact. SOMEWHERE.

I'm with you about AEW too. AEW HAS to be having a real talk meeting right now about what the fuck they are going to try to do here. You can't bring everyone in at once and make them all champions. This is known. But you can't go to a 2nd network show without having to get dead serious about having some more no bullshit bang-up folks to build the shows around. They've been working on their own guys better than they've gotten credit for. But still, when some good shit falls in your lap like this, you have to go shopping.

And the biggest thing AEW has to do is NOT to 'beat WWE' or 'catch WWE'. They need to build themselves as a real place for good wrestlers to want to be if/when their WWE shit isn't going right. They did as well as they could do when they started. Getting Ambrose/Moxley was a big domino in this way even if we can all pick at how it hasn't been perfect. But look at him: Moxley is walking around looking happy and that's all AEW needed from his signing.

I view Riott and Strowman as must-signs for AEW if there aren't crazy stories making that a not good thing to do.

I also think they should be lurking in a corner trying to figure out what's up with Velveteen Dream too, but that's a much trickier story most likely.

And shit, if you're gonna have all hoss announcers, may as well holler at Samoa Joe for talking at minimum too.

Christian, Henry and Show are all decent backstage guys for long-term growth and talking folks out of bad ideas type stuff. I see them as the next generation of Gorilla and Pat Patterson/Brisco type folks for AEW. And they can all be snuck onto a show here or there just cuz..kinda like Sting is now.

Arn, Tully, Jake, and some of those other dudes are long in the tooth at minimum so it is smart to get some more folks in who have drawn $ as rasslers in the last 20 years.

I'm excited about this.

>Fuck the Mark Henry's and Big Shows.
>>Right now
, they have big-time, main event talent.
>
>Strowman had a window where it looked like he was primed to be
>a mega star, and they shit the bed with him. More than once,
>in fact.
>
>He's still a little too fee-fi-fo-fum for me, but he's a
>Hoss's Hoss.
>
>He's not in the same class as Sheamus (honestly, Sheamus is a
>GOAT level Hoss as far as his ability to have excellent
>matches. Character is another story), but he's very, very
>good.
>
>He has to go to AEW, get a crony or three (looking at you,
>Murphy), and eat some motherfuckers alive for a year straight.
>
>
>Lana gets to reunite with Rusev. That's a great tandem, and
>they should update the Rusev/Lana gimmick, sans the foreign
>menace element. That's a top shelf act IMO.
>
>And Black? I'm geeked. I need him in AEW. He's among the very
>best there is in all aspects of this shit IMO and he's a
>revelation waiting to happen.
>
>You want 2021 CM Punk? That's the fucking guy, right there:
>Tommy End.
>
>Which is a way, way, way better fucking name.
>
>Kahn better open up the checkbook NOW, and I don't really care
>if a few scrubs have to get cut to make room.
>
>This is a big deal.

Because that's a massive, potentially game changing influx of talent.

The non-compete for Stro, End, Lana, and Riot will right as, ideally, live arena shows are in full swing too.

That's huge.

>Because that's a massive, potentially game changing influx of
>talent.
>
>The non-compete for Stro, End, Lana, and Riot will right as,
>ideally, live arena shows are in full swing too.
>
>That's huge.
>
>

I really wonder what they have laid down for Bryan right now. I want to believe that he's for real hurt/taking a break to do the dad thing and they have some kind of agreement to stay in touch. IE: don't show up out of nowhere ANYWHERE ELSE without talking to us first.

This also makes me think a lot more about this WWE/NJPW thing. I kinda hope NJPW holds their ground on letting WWE lock them out of other US stuff for now unless they agree to go super big with it.

I'm talking Reigns/Okada Tokyo Dome shit. Tanahashi/Cena. Naito/Daniel Bryan at Mania. Big azz Bullet Club reunion/explosion War Games match at summer slam. ALL THE FUCKING WAY, you hear me!? Don't do it and then show up with Ricochet/Ospreay again and stop there...if that's it, NJPW may do better to wait for WWE to finish up all of these cuts.

I cannot believe in particular that Strowman, Murphy, and Black are available. Unfathomable.

Early on they blew a chance to really make him a star. Later on the holes in his game were exposed and they were never gonna be able to capitalize on his strengths. Even giving him the title was too little too late, ya know?

I love the new theme, which plays on the Jungle Boy name, but that name isn't going to cut it for much longer. I'd like to see him switch it up.

Gotta keep that theme though, because it's a killer.

Which I think works well in that it trades on what he's done thus far, throws in the star power of his dad's name, and passes the "Wrestlemania Test" (i.e. if I saw that on a card I'd want to know more or at least I wouldn't scoff at it).

>Which I think works well in that it trades on what he's done
>thus far, throws in the star power of his dad's name, and
>passes the "Wrestlemania Test" (i.e. if I saw that on a card
>I'd want to know more or at least I wouldn't scoff at it).

But also it makes me roll my eyes cause it’s clear no one told JR to call him that and also no has the balls to tell JR to stop calling him that.

Yes, Tony, QT and Cody are writing and formatting the show, but it seems like they're largely hands off when it comes to promo content, commentary and match layout.

This can be bad, because if you have, say, Adam Scherr coming in, I don't necessarily trust him with a hot mic. But, he's gonna learn REAL QUICK in a way he wouldn't with having to memorize a promo.

Pleasantly surprised they gave the title to Shingo. With how uncertain things are on the business end I was 99% sure they were gonna go back to the Okada well. Shingo gives them a bunch of fresh matchups in their main event. Really looking forward to this run.

https://www.cagesideseats.com/platform/amp/aew/2021/6/8/22525320/lio-rush-retires-professional-wrestling

This sucks. He’s extremely talented. Obviously he had his issues backstage in WWE, but he was very young and it seemed like he had matured a lot since being released. Things were looking very bright for his future. Awful timing but perhaps he’ll continue on as a manager or something.

It’s not that NXT should be all little guys (Keith Lee and Dijakovic fit perfectly) but you gotta have a decent set of skills for the NXT audience to accept you. Kross retaining the title didn’t even get boos, just seemed like the crowd collectively sighed, which is worse.

I swear I’m not just trying to shit on the guy cause he doesn’t fill the indie wrestler bingo card or whatever. I think the presence is there and the presentation only needs some small tweaks. I’m just saying his act fits Raw 100x better than it does NXT.

EDIT: Sorry to be so negative. It was a good show overall. Main event delivered other than the result being obvious and kinda uninspiring. Opening match was all action. Xia/Mercedes was... interesting? I tuned out for most of Knight/Grimes, but I think Knight winning is the better story.

I enjoyed the twists and turns of the women's title match and RG retaining is the right call (though you could argue RG should be more dominant). That's sorta where my view of Kross comes from actually: I think RG is the more worthwhile "big dominant champ" experiment.

But his act is not meant for the CWC. He's an arena act for certain.

Yeah, he's a different thing. But I dig him quite a bit right now. I thought he was okay when I saw him a couple of times on Impact. But everything he did in NXT worked on me: the entrance with fine self Scarlett, his face-making (I think HBK is involved), the physicality, and even the dry/harsh threats he throws out.

I'm horrified that he might not be big enough to do a similar act on Raw/SD, but it looks like we will see soon enough. I worry that he's gonna end up like Samoa Joe: a lot of convincing barking but ultimately not enough bite for folks to take him seriously for a long time. Maybe I'm wrong, someone loves him, and he'll win a lot and get hella over. I could barely type that cuz I don't believe it!

>It’s not that NXT should be all little guys (Keith Lee and
>Dijakovic fit perfectly) but you gotta have a decent set of
>skills for the NXT audience to accept you. Kross retaining the
>title didn’t even get boos, just seemed like the crowd
>collectively sighed, which is worse.
>
>I swear I’m not just trying to shit on the guy cause he
>doesn’t fill the indie wrestler bingo card or whatever. I
>think the presence is there and the presentation only needs
>some small tweaks. I’m just saying his act fits Raw 100x
>better than it does NXT.
>
>EDIT: Sorry to be so negative. It was a good show overall.
>Main event delivered other than the result being obvious and
>kinda uninspiring. Opening match was all action. Xia/Mercedes
>was... interesting? I tuned out for most of Knight/Grimes, but
>I think Knight winning is the better story.
>
>I enjoyed the twists and turns of the women's title match and
>RG retaining is the right call (though you could argue RG
>should be more dominant). That's sorta where my view of Kross
>comes from actually: I think RG is the more worthwhile "big
>dominant champ" experiment.

Ever-Rise
Ariya Daivari
Tony Nese
August Grey (fka Anthony Greene)
Breezango
The Bollywood Boyz
Marina Shafir
Curt Stallion
Arturo Ruas
Killian Dain
Tino Sabbatelli


So is Vince clearing out more of the big contracts that the WWE signed people to right before the pandemic? Or is he really about to sell out to Disney?

>Ever-Rise
>Ariya Daivari
>Tony Nese
>August Grey (fka Anthony Greene)
>Breezango
>The Bollywood Boyz
>Marina Shafir
>Curt Stallion
>Arturo Ruas
>Killian Dain
>Tino Sabbatelli
>
>
>So is Vince clearing out more of the big contracts that the
>WWE signed people to right before the pandemic? Or is he
>really about to sell out to Disney?

My uninformed guess is that it is expensive to have a shitload of unused people traveling to live shows in different locations and/or it is more expensive for wwe’s production crew to travel to locations than to thunder dome it up every week. So they’re thinking ‘fuck having all these folks we don’t care about in catering. Let’s trim it off, make a better effort to use who we have left and hit the road’.

So we’re seeing a few guys come out of the caves they’ve been stuck in and others are being released. And it’s probably based on the whims of Vince, which can and does go wrong on a regular basis. I wish AEW was better at installing folks and having them make big splashes but it seems like they’re still trying to build their basics and they don’t want to hotshot things over to the newest ex-wwe guys unless they get someone ridiculous again like they felt they did with Ambrose/Moxley.

2020 was their most profitable year. They cut people to keep the projected profits on track, cause they don’t want to say to the shareholders “We expect to make ____.” and then come back to them with “Actually we made 5 percent less.” It’s so dumb, but we’re seeing more of the same in 2021.

I will say that at least most of these cuts make some sense. They were never gonna do anything with a guy like Sabatelli (for some reason they brought him back after cutting him last year or the year before). Breezango hurts, but I think they’ve done everything they were gonna do in WWE.

I’m confused by Everrise and Killian Dain though. They had some fun things going on with NXT lately. I wouldn’t say they were the most essential members of the roster, but I just don’t get when people are getting plenty of screen time, making the most of it, and you cut them anyway.

Also, RE: selling… the Masked Man put it best. I’m paraphrasing but his point was “I think every few years he just likes to see what someone WOULD pay for WWE if it were for sale”

Frankly, soulless profiteering aside, their recent practice of hoarding talent to hoard talent is a net detriment to both the on screen product, and the wrestlers themselves.

To that end, I wouldn't call this a bloodletting so much as a house cleaning, personally.

I'm never happy to see people out of a job, but the industry is rife with entities right now and I'm guessing everyone lands on their feet, with a fair number in better position to make greater use of their talents.

>Frankly, soulless profiteering aside, their recent practice
>of hoarding talent to hoard talent is a net detriment to both
>the on screen product, and the wrestlers themselves.
>

You said it right here. I’m still gonna type a lot but yeah..this is it. If nobody on the show matters, nothing on the show matters…except Reigns.

WWE is getting to the exact place they want to be. They want to be like a sports league where no one player/wrestler is ever really all that important, people watch the shows out of habit, and they can swap out expensive and/or old folks for new and/or cheaper ones whenever they want. They have dropped like 40 folks this year and most wwe fans have reacted like ‘yeah, whatever’, so WWE is pleased as punch. To me, that’s a bad sign for the rasslers and us as fans if they can just drop anyone and everyone is Damn near programmed to not gaf. They need to find a happy medium between being held hostage their best folks (ala the late 90s) and being in a spot where absolutely nobody (after Reigns) is a big deal.

Ie: they could release Rollins today and most of the WWE only folks would swing in on a rope and say that it’s not big deal/he was stale anyway/I don’t care if he goes to AEW/fuck that guy cuz of these old tweets/whatever. And that is exactly what Vince wants and has built.

Last thing for now, most of us were excited about Braun potentially going somewhere and doing good shit. But 90 days feels like forever. And really, do any of us have faith that things will go well for him quickly anywhere? Or is he gonna have to do a Drew Galloway/McIntyre in order for things to work out, which would take years of work that big boy might not want to do?

>Last thing for now, most of us were excited about Braun
>potentially going somewhere and doing good shit. But 90 days
>feels like forever. And really, do any of us have faith that
>things will go well for him quickly anywhere? Or is he gonna
>have to do a Drew Galloway/McIntyre in order for things to
>work out, which would take years of work that big boy might
>not want to do?

I think they waived the 90 days but there was a story going around that he has a very high appearance fee and the indies just aren't going to meet that (same thing happened with RyBack). He's already set monetarily so he's not gonna do random shit just to stay busy. AEW has the cash but I just don't see him fitting in there. He'd make all their other monsters look tiny by comparison. Maybe Impact can scrounge up enough dough. I think he'd fit better there. I'm betting he'll just go do some movies and TV until WWE calls him again though.

>
>>Last thing for now, most of us were excited about Braun
>>potentially going somewhere and doing good shit. But 90 days
>>feels like forever. And really, do any of us have faith that
>>things will go well for him quickly anywhere? Or is he gonna
>>have to do a Drew Galloway/McIntyre in order for things to
>>work out, which would take years of work that big boy might
>>not want to do?
>
>I think they waived the 90 days but there was a story going
>around that he has a very high appearance fee and the indies
>just aren't going to meet that (same thing happened with
>RyBack). He's already set monetarily so he's not gonna do
>random shit just to stay busy. AEW has the cash but I just
>don't see him fitting in there. He'd make all their other
>monsters look tiny by comparison. Maybe Impact can scrounge up
>enough dough. I think he'd fit better there. I'm betting he'll
>just go do some movies and TV until WWE calls him again
>though.

You're probably right about the movies. That makes a lot of sense for him cuz nobody other than WWE is going to fork over major money for him most likely.

Impact is sneaking around trying to be a decent and solid wrestling outfit. And they have some size on their roster. Braun going there MIGHT be fun from a wrestling standpoint, but it won't be viewed as a major thing because that's just not where Impact is at this point. And hell, at this point, basically nothing is a big deal in wrestling if its not Brock or Reigns. Pretty much everyone else is functioning in some kind of vacuum where you can only get super negative attention if you tweet the wrong thing or if folks think you suck. Or if you win more than folks want you to and that's the thing. It is a crazy situation.

What a stupid “controversy.” It’s been public knowledge that Vince likes to hire non-wrestling fan writers to bring in an outside perspective. She jokes about it a little bit on a podcast, it gets blown out of proportion, and a pile of morons harass her all over social media cause she doesn’t know as much about the thing they love as they do. She was somehow blamed for “ruining Raw” a show she worked on for just a couple weeks and hasn’t been good in years. Now she’s out of a job for some pretty tame comments. Plus, no one stopped to consider how bad it looked for a bunch of mostly white guys to be yelling at a Black woman for simply getting a name wrong (and then correcting it!). She was clearly in the middle of doing research about her new job, cut her some slack.

Even if you think it’s a bad hiring strategy to hire outsiders, that ain’t her fault and she deserves a chance to prove everyone wrong. But hey, just like all the other writers who were fired too early, she’ll land on her feet. She’s very talented and funny and I’m sure she’ll have some (better) job offers lined up before too long. I’m just really disappointed in wrestling fans this week. I hope I don’t have to say this to anyone here, but before you join social media pile-ons, please stop to consider what you’re doing for a few seconds.

>What a stupid “controversy.” It’s been public knowledge
>that Vince likes to hire non-wrestling fan writers to bring in
>an outside perspective. She jokes about it a little bit on a
>podcast, it gets blown out of proportion, and a pile of morons
>harass her all over social media cause she doesn’t know as
>much about the thing they love as they do. She was somehow
>blamed for “ruining Raw” a show she worked on for just a
>couple weeks and hasn’t been good in years. Now she’s out
>of a job for some pretty tame comments. Plus, no one stopped
>to consider how bad it looked for a bunch of mostly white guys
>to be yelling at a Black woman for simply getting a name wrong
>(and then correcting it!). She was clearly in the middle of
>doing research about her new job, cut her some slack.
>
>Even if you think it’s a bad hiring strategy to hire
>outsiders, that ain’t her fault and she deserves a chance to
>prove everyone wrong. But hey, just like all the other writers
>who were fired too early, she’ll land on her feet. She’s
>very talented and funny and I’m sure she’ll have some
>(better) job offers lined up before too long. I’m just
>really disappointed in wrestling fans this week. I hope I
>don’t have to say this to anyone here, but before you join
>social media pile-ons, please stop to consider what you’re
>doing for a few seconds.

I've been calling it the culture of complaining. Restated, we're at the point now where we have so many choices and options, maybe too many. And, at least to me, people's appreciation for the efforts of others is dwindling daily. Looking at the wrong places online, you'd think that nobody likes anything or anybody. And the pitchforks don't ever seem to be too far away from pretty much anybody. And it can be any reason imaginable.

Zooming into this, my complaints about complaining apply. If you are valuable and you do a good job at a place, you shouldn't be one not horrible comment away from being tossed out. I'm of the opinion that she should have kept that tidbit to herself OR maybe she could've worded it better, but getting fired? That's obviously ridiculous. This is a bad thing.

And at least some of the crying and moaning folks should see this firing, wonder if they're doing this whole innanet thing correctly, and maybe fight FOR somebody for once instead of constantly being on a case to fight AGAINST something.

But shit...Braun Strowman is allegedly the exact thing Vince wants most and they let him go out of nowhere, so clearly no one outside of Reigns should feel too safe.

I'm of the opinion that she should have kept that tidbit
>to herself OR maybe she could've worded it better, but getting
>fired? That's obviously ridiculous. This is a bad thing.

Right. She crossed a line (more like tip-toed over a line) that she didn’t realize was there. Pull her aside, tell her to apologize to the right people, and then let her show what she can do in the job.

Whoever hired that person needs to be fired as well.

So on and so forth.

I.E: Vince. Vince needs to go.

Keller has done several interviews with former writers, all of which seem like good, well meaning people.

Some of them had a grasp on the product.

Case in point: Court Bauer.

He's obviously an exceptional example. I think Brian Go

But time and again, they all say some form of the following:

Our job is to write whatever Vince likes.

I'm sure your friend is deserving of any opportunity she gets. But she- through no fault of her own- is a symptom of the problem in WWE, not the problem itself.

And one of those symptoms is the insistence on hiring TV and comedy writers, and downplaying the importance of knowledge of the product as a prerequisite. That's just for starters.

Vince routinely tears everything up the day of and often rewrites as the show is airing, so whatever anyone writes is worthless anyways.

That's where the problem lies. He can hire the best possible wrestling minds and they would mean fuckall because he thinks his personal vision is the one that works, because, financially at least, it does.

It's Vince's prerogative to listen to ideas and then go with his own, but what's the point of having all those talented writers on staff if you're just gonna do your own thing or change all their shit last minute? Writers who LOVE wrestling go there, get chewed up/spit out within a year, and some of them kinda fall out of love with wrestling because of it.

I was chatting it up with a writer who had been there and gotten fired within a year. When I asked about their experience the first words out of their mouth were something to the effect of "It's everything you've ever heard about it. I had to take the job cause I'm a fan, but it was awful."

I do think it's a decent strategy to have some people on staff who did not grow up fans so you can get some fresh perspectives. It happens in entertainment all the time. For instance, the MCU movies would not be as good as they are if everyone in the creative process was a huge comic book nerd. In WWE's case, if everyone there grew up a fan you run the risk of everyone trying to recreate angles they used to love, and that gets stale pretty quick. But if you don't even listen to those fresh perspectives OR the diehard fans, what's the point?

but im also not sure why she would say any of that on a podcast and think it would all be cool

if you just got hired to write for the longest running episodic television show in history, that launched the careers of both the highest paid actor of all time and one of the great live event draws in all of entertainment, and you make public implications that the job is somehow beneath you as an artist or talent, while also making comments that diminish the star of the show as being not worth your time (much less that of the audience)...

that doesnt paint a flattering picture.

>that doesnt paint a flattering picture.

for sure, but it was a casual conversation after she had just gotten the job and she was in the middle of doing the research part that non-fan writers always do. That's why she stumbled on his name but knew the name of his faction. She was really excited for the job and didn't think it was beneath her at all, but when the comments are typed out I understand how it can be interpreted as such.

I'll reiterate my main point though: I'm more angry at the overreacting fans than WWE. Vince is gonna do what Vince always does. I told her she probably avoided a shitload of other issues by getting canned this early. But now she keeps getting hateful messages everyday calling her a "dumb bitch" and stuff like that. There's just no reason for that.

I think they've settled on calling him Malaki Black.

Good choice for their first on the road in almost a year and a half. And having him hit the Fade to Black on both Arn and Cody worked. Maybe Cody can put him over after farting around with QT for what seems like forever.

Apparently Black showing up so soon in AEW was a screw-up on WWE's part. When he got promoted to Main Roster, someone forgot to change the no-compete clause in his contract from 30-days to 90 days. Oops.

>I think they've settled on calling him Malaki Black.
>
>Good choice for their first on the road in almost a year and a
>half. And having him hit the Fade to Black on both Arn and
>Cody worked. Maybe Cody can put him over after farting around
>with QT for what seems like forever.
>
>Apparently Black showing up so soon in AEW was a screw-up on
>WWE's part. When he got promoted to Main Roster, someone
>forgot to change the no-compete clause in his contract from
>30-days to 90 days. Oops.

Wwe needs to cool it with the length on no competes in most situations right now anyway. When they’ve shelved folks for months on end before releasing them a lot of the time, another 90 days seems kinda extra. And with some folks being programmed to think wwe is the only rasslin on earth, it’s even worse. Folks will slog through bad raw eps every week but still watch that over just about anything else..even NXT.

>Wwe needs to cool it with the length on no competes in most
>situations right now anyway. When they’ve shelved folks for
>months on end before releasing them a lot of the time, another
>90 days seems kinda extra. And with some folks being
>programmed to think wwe is the only rasslin on earth, it’s
>even worse. Folks will slog through bad raw eps every week but
>still watch that over just about anything else..even NXT.

It's interesting, because after the latest round of WWE lay-offs a few weeks ago, I read somewhere that they were thinking about relaxing the no-compete clauses for those who got terminated. I have no idea if it was real, or them to trying things positively for them, or getting ahead of Black showing up somewhere else.

>
>>Wwe needs to cool it with the length on no competes in most
>>situations right now anyway. When they’ve shelved folks
>for
>>months on end before releasing them a lot of the time,
>another
>>90 days seems kinda extra. And with some folks being
>>programmed to think wwe is the only rasslin on earth, it’s
>>even worse. Folks will slog through bad raw eps every week
>but
>>still watch that over just about anything else..even NXT.
>
>It's interesting, because after the latest round of WWE
>lay-offs a few weeks ago, I read somewhere that they were
>thinking about relaxing the no-compete clauses for those who
>got terminated. I have no idea if it was real, or them to
>trying things positively for them, or getting ahead of Black
>showing up somewhere else.

It seems like they've been letting some folks slide lately so maybe that story has some truth to it. And like we keep saying, no one is anywhere near 'catching up' with them. AND if wrestling gets bigger and better ANYWHERE, it will eventually benefit WWE because of their resources. Nobody can do anything that WWE can't figure out how to copy with other folks involved. Or, like usual, they can just buy people out and bring them into the fold. They never really stopped doing it. They have so many ROH folks for instance. And recently, lots of Impact folks are on the scene.

I'm interested to see that Braun hasn't shown up anywhere after he allegedly had 0 no-compete days as a part of his release. Maybe that 'big dude on a movie' plan is what he's truly working on. Or maybe he's gonna show up and slam Omega or whoever NJPW's champ is through a floor by the end of the end of the year and folks are just trying to set it up properly.

>I'm interested to see that Braun hasn't shown up anywhere
>after he allegedly had 0 no-compete days as a part of his
>release. Maybe that 'big dude on a movie' plan is what he's
>truly working on. Or maybe he's gonna show up and slam Omega
>or whoever NJPW's champ is through a floor by the end of the
>end of the year and folks are just trying to set it up
>properly.

It could be that WWE is re-negotiating his contract like they did with Samoa Joe. Or he's indeed going to do a few films, and then re-sign with them.

when it was actually 90.

Wow what a difference a crowd makes

>Wow what a difference a crowd makes
>
>

I expect crowds to be EXCITED at most shows for a while. It will be a welcomed change from the too cool and/or put yourself over above anything else crowds that were basically taking away from the product before crowds went away.

>Wow what a difference a crowd makes
>
>

I’m watching the first hour in full now. This is a good ass time. I enjoyed most of the 2nd hour live last night. I even liked the Bucks and that’s not always the case for me nowadays (the spamming was finally starting to get to me).

Cody is rock solid. Omega is trolling heel goodness and Page might be the one to get his AEW title. Ethan Page and Darby did good work. This roster is sneaking around trying to become useful, deep, and with a good variety. I’m on the verge of being interested. Not bad about 3-ish years of existence. And wwe is helping them by making all of these cuts.

i thought Omega had the best segment of the whole show, and by a considerable margin. hes actually learning how to be on TV, and even tho his matches dont do that much for me i can live with that if he makes me care about him.

on the flip side of that tho is Matt Jackson. jesus christ. im convinced hes not even a real person, just a blank nothing of a human being who only knows how to mimic without any of the understanding of what hes mimicking.
Nick entertains me every now and then and is kinda growing into this, but the other one is really really bad.

>i thought Omega had the best segment of the whole show, and
>by a considerable margin. hes actually learning how to be on
>TV, and even tho his matches dont do that much for me i can
>live with that if he makes me care about him.

It was almost the exact same segment as ran last week, except with Callis saying everything that Omega said (and more effectively bringing the heat). I actually do like Omega in the ring, but as was discussed earlier in this thread, he really needs to just let Callis do the heavy lifting during the promos.

I do agree it was a highlight, and showed how over Hangman is. They better pull the trigger at All Out.

really really good stuff. the best he's had in 2 years imo.

and Hangman...*dramatic exhale* lol

he's *still* over in spite of the nonsense theyve put him through. him sabotaging the Bucks while he cried, "lets go out for ice cream", Dax dropping an elephantine shit on him on the mic while he stood there and took it...all this is pretty much the exact opposite of how a guy gets over yet hes fuckin Teflon. crazy to think where he might be if hed been booked like a babyface version of Stan Hansen as opposed to...that.

>he's *still* over in spite of the nonsense theyve put him
>through. him sabotaging the Bucks while he cried, "lets go
>out for ice cream", Dax dropping an elephantine shit on him on
>the mic while he stood there and took it...all this is pretty
>much the exact opposite of how a guy gets over yet hes fuckin
>Teflon. crazy to think where he might be if hed been booked
>like a babyface version of Stan Hansen as opposed to...that.

I'm actually okay with how they're going with this, since it focuses on Page's in-story alcoholism, without actually saying it's about his in-story alcoholism. Basically have him hit rock bottom, only to have him find salvation through the Dark Order, who gives the confidence to conquer his demons. In the meantime, he gets solid wins over both Hardy and Brian Cage.

I do think their initial booking plans for Page were sidetracked by Brodie Lee's death. It did seem like they would building to a showdown between Page and Lee over the soul of the Dark Order. But I honestly am okay with how things went afterwards. As long as it pays off with him beating Omega. Then let him be a bad-ass for a few PPVs before eventually transitioning to MJF and let him hold the belt for three years.

its sappy and cloying even in the hands of skilled writers with literary talent, as evidence by countless terrible movies about drunks.

also are they supposed to be working towards a point where he renounces drinking as a babyface act? alcoholics go into recovery by being completely sober. is he gonna do a teetotaler gimmick and get cheered for the exact opposite thing he originally got over with?

i just dont understand the need to needlessly jump into the deep end of creative writing without ever having taken a swim class.

Nice touch to have the contact lens in, which would mean he’s building on the character changes/vignettes that he had late in his WWE run. And this is exactly the role I want Cody in. Have him be the entry point for guys coming in so they can build them into serious contenders.

>Apparently Black showing up so soon in AEW was a screw-up on
>WWE's part. When he got promoted to Main Roster, someone
>forgot to change the no-compete clause in his contract from
>30-days to 90 days. Oops.

Hilarious.

Its been a long time since he did anything that mattered, and he aint on the tier he sometimes seems to think he's on

he can do that role, but he cant JUST do that. from time to time he needs to remind us why he's important in the first place

but every few months he should be used to elevate guys like Black, Andrade, Miro (though it will get stale if it's all former WWE guys beating him)... in fact, I'd like to see Lance Archer get his win back from that initial TNT title tourney.

am i supposed to know why "Malakai Black" is noteworthy?

he already told us his name is Tommy, so why was Malakai Black on the tip of his tongue 30 seconds after the lights came on?

was this a surprise or not?

i understand that he's pretty good, but I dont watch WWE TV so thats all i have to go on. this would have been better served with vignettes to flesh out the gimmick.

>am i supposed to know why "Malakai Black" is noteworthy?
>
>he already told us his name is Tommy, so why was Malakai Black
>on the tip of his tongue 30 seconds after the lights came on?


They should have called him Tommy End during the segment, with Excalibur saying his line "but he is something darker" THEN when you come back from break he can clarify "I've just been told that he is going by Malaki Black."

that was the best promo on Dynamite since last summer when Starks and Kingston showed up

the crowd was MAD uncomfortable, and didnt know how to react until Archer came out to toss him around.

unfortunately bumping him a few times doesnt really take any of the air out of his words

>that was the best promo on Dynamite since last summer when
>Starks and Kingston showed up
>
>the crowd was MAD uncomfortable, and didnt know how to react
>until Archer came out to toss him around.
>
>unfortunately bumping him a few times doesnt really take any
>of the air out of his words

It’s sad that ‘old stuff was awesome, new stuff sucks’ is just something folks can throw around in damn near any medium without having to show their work. Ie: I continuously double dog dare folks to watch RANDOM old rasslin shows with 2021 eyes so they can see how bad some of the stuff is that they’re praising to the heavens. Sure, there’d be a lot to love depending on which show you stumbled into.

BUT

Some of the stalling/stretching segments, bad finish shenanigans and other flat out bad stuff will be there too. Some feuds went on forever. Some feuds didn’t happen cuz folks were being bitches backstage. Some bad folks got pushed down everyone’s throat. Some good workers never really got a full shot at shining. Aka a lot of the same stuff was going on then. But documentaries and YouTube allow folks to filter that stuff out and act like every show during their era of choice was the main event of Bash at the Beach 96, mania 17, and/or Steamboat vs Flair 89.

everything new on Monday Night Raw in 1999 is now just the way both companies do things, and its boring.

- lights out and someone is in the ring when they come on

- interrupted promos, WITH music for the interrupter

- backstage skits instead of looking into a camera with a genuine rap

- the idea that the company is the only real star

my biggest disappointment with Dynamite is that its not a true alternative to RAW. its a show made by people who want to do RAW "their way". the named segments (Dinner Debonnaire, MJF State of the Union, MJF-Jericho parley) are all Jericho jerking off and spooging out the shit even Vince McMahon thought was too silly, and hes got a possesed doll on his show.

youre right in that there has always been more filler material than killer material, but its not about that. its about the complete abandonment of a serious product with a serious presentation. when the announcers are laughing the whole time, and the booking meanders down a road to nowhere, and they are relying on poorly scripted and acted skits to get people over it just seems amateurish and inconsequential. we get it... pro wrestling is a fictional medium. but the interpretation of that as "we can be as fake as we want because none of this shit matters" permeates this stuff and its wack.

even when the matches are good, its just a display of pro wrestling moves without believable people and conflicts, and that has an expiration date.

>everything new on Monday Night Raw in 1999 is now just the
>way both companies do things, and its boring.
>
>- lights out and someone is in the ring when they come on
>
>- interrupted promos, WITH music for the interrupter
>
>- backstage skits instead of looking into a camera with a
>genuine rap
>
>- the idea that the company is the only real star
>
>my biggest disappointment with Dynamite is that its not a true
>alternative to RAW. its a show made by people who want to do
>RAW "their way". the named segments (Dinner Debonnaire, MJF
>State of the Union, MJF-Jericho parley) are all Jericho
>jerking off and spooging out the shit even Vince McMahon
>thought was too silly, and hes got a possesed doll on his
>show.

I can get with lots of this. The format hasn't dramatically changed. And the whole 'the company is the only real star' is hard to disagree with as an obvious shift..especially with WWE. But hell, that's pretty much what all American entertainment and sports are trying to pull off. The ugly side effect is that things seem to 'matter less' compared to before because the company is gonna be being there no matter who wins the rasslin matches. The good news for the companies is that the show keeps going even if someone gets hurt, dies, and/or acts a fool backstage and gets canned. To me, that's how WWE can drop damn near a whole roster worth of folks, damn near a 3rd of the roster is stuck in catering at any given time, BUT the show keeps on rolling, and the more entranced 'WWE is the only show worth watching' folks thinks that means the folks who got let go and/or can't get out of catering aren't good. AKA WWE's plan is working on the fans. I'm embarrassed that folks could still get worked by a wrestling company like this.

For me, the good news is this: WWE's rasslers are VERY GOOD at delivering a good show at the stadium. So, if you're there, its gonna work on you. By comparison, it is hard to understate how horrible WCW got to be delivering decent and coherent main events. WWE was doing elaborate shenanigan finishers a lot too but at least there were no cattle prods. And there were far less overbearingly lazy workers in WWE's main event scene. People got their chains jerked like crazy with stories that had folks excited matched with bad matches and shit finishes. And, to me, that horrible period of rasslin broke something inside of a lot of fans that has never been repaired. As for me, I dove into Japan stuff, reached back to make sure I had a decent handle on the 80s classic stuff, and peeked in on WWE to make sure I didn't miss whatever Eddie, Booker T, and Benoit were doing.

The post-internet 'match quality/workrate obsession' thing was fine as long as the wrestlers themselves weren't raising their glasses to wink at folks about it over and over during the show.

IE: Ric Flair was a king shit badass in-ring wrestler. But he didn't show up and talk about having 5-star matches. He showed up talking about being rich, having all of the broads, having the illest crew, and being THE MAN. And if you were gonna beat him in a match, you were gonna have to fucking bring it (and get around Flair not being above cheating). It made sense. It kept the story going. And, like you said, it was presented seriously even if there was dudes saying outrageous stuff, dressing like assholes, doing over the top fake selling (Flair flop) and all of that.

Now, Kenny Omega is a badass wrestler who can do a bunch of shit physically that I enjoy. The thing I don't love is that he talks about his match quality as a part of his gimmick. Its Dolph Ziggler shit in the worst way. I think someone somewhere is coaching him up about it though cuz he seems to be getting better. I'm holding out hope. I'm also remember that it took hella years for Hulk, Hall/Nash, Bret, and even Flair to figure out their best shit. I think if we give some of these wrestling nerd workers we have now some time, some of them will figure it out too.

>youre right in that there has always been more filler material
>than killer material, but its not about that. its about the
>complete abandonment of a serious product with a serious
>presentation. when the announcers are laughing the whole
>time, and the booking meanders down a road to nowhere, and
>they are relying on poorly scripted and acted skits to get
>people over it just seems amateurish and inconsequential. we
>get it... pro wrestling is a fictional medium. but the
>interpretation of that as "we can be as fake as we want
>because none of this shit matters" permeates this stuff and
>its wack.
>
>even when the matches are good, its just a display of pro
>wrestling moves without believable people and conflicts, and
>that has an expiration date.

>I can get with lots of this. The format hasn't dramatically
>changed. And the whole 'the company is the only real star' is
>hard to disagree with as an obvious shift..especially with
>WWE. But hell, that's pretty much what all American
>entertainment and sports are trying to pull off. The ugly side
>effect is that things seem to 'matter less' compared to before
>because the company is gonna be being there no matter who wins
>the rasslin matches. The good news for the companies is that
>the show keeps going even if someone gets hurt, dies, and/or
>acts a fool backstage and gets canned. To me, that's how WWE
>can drop damn near a whole roster worth of folks, damn near a
>3rd of the roster is stuck in catering at any given time, BUT
>the show keeps on rolling, and the more entranced 'WWE is the
>only show worth watching' folks thinks that means the folks
>who got let go and/or can't get out of catering aren't good.
>AKA WWE's plan is working on the fans. I'm embarrassed that
>folks could still get worked by a wrestling company like
>this.

this is why not only do they not care if anyone ACTUALLY gets over, its in their best interest that NO one gets really and truly over. AEW does a similar thing, but its a lot less malicious. they have a cult of personality in their fanbase to the point that it doesnt really matter what happens, all that matters is that their indie darlings are the ones doing it.

>For me, the good news is this: WWE's rasslers are VERY GOOD at
>delivering a good show at the stadium. So, if you're there,
>its gonna work on you. By comparison, it is hard to understate
>how horrible WCW got to be delivering decent and coherent main
>events. WWE was doing elaborate shenanigan finishers a lot too
>but at least there were no cattle prods. And there were far
>less overbearingly lazy workers in WWE's main event scene.

to be honest, if WWE tv were condensed down to JUST the matches...it would be good. they are believable combatants with a ton of professional training, even if the style is a bit homogeneous. and WWE never had Kevin Nash throwing stones with "the book" and then hiding his hands afterwards, so the elaborate shenanigans were never done in service of anything other than the almighty draw.

>People got their chains jerked like crazy with stories that
>had folks excited matched with bad matches and shit finishes.
>And, to me, that horrible period of rasslin broke something
>inside of a lot of fans that has never been repaired. As for
>me, I dove into Japan stuff, reached back to make sure I had a
>decent handle on the 80s classic stuff, and peeked in on WWE
>to make sure I didn't miss whatever Eddie, Booker T, and
>Benoit were doing.

i bailed on WCW before it really got truly awful, which sucked bc i grew up in a 605 Saturday night house and my first show was front row at JCP in 1988. its my understanding that WWE in 2003, 2005, 2006, and 2010 had a ton of legitimately good stuff but I had no wrestling friends around at that time so i missed just about all of it. by the time NJPW was an option for me i missed promos too much to really get into it. so ive basically just been twisting in the wind for 20 years waiting for what i hoped AEW would be. thats the real reason i have such a negative reaction to the worst of AEW.

>The post-internet 'match quality/workrate obsession' thing was
>fine as long as the wrestlers themselves weren't raising their
>glasses to wink at folks about it over and over during the
>show.

yeah thats an immediate turnoff for me when the wrestlers do that.

>IE: Ric Flair was a king shit badass in-ring wrestler. But he
>didn't show up and talk about having 5-star matches. He showed
>up talking about being rich, having all of the broads, having
>the illest crew, and being THE MAN. And if you were gonna beat
>him in a match, you were gonna have to fucking bring it (and
>get around Flair not being above cheating). It made sense. It
>kept the story going. And, like you said, it was presented
>seriously even if there was dudes saying outrageous stuff,
>dressing like assholes, doing over the top fake selling (Flair
>flop) and all of that.

the closest he ever came was talking about being a "60 minute man", but that could easily be interpreted as the character's attribute, not Richard Fliehr's. he also had that magical once in a generation ability to make you hate him amd want to be hom at the same time.

>Now, Kenny Omega is a badass wrestler who can do a bunch of
>shit physically that I enjoy. The thing I don't love is that
>he talks about his match quality as a part of his gimmick. Its
>Dolph Ziggler shit in the worst way. I think someone somewhere
>is coaching him up about it though cuz he seems to be getting
>better. I'm holding out hope. I'm also remember that it took
>hella years for Hulk, Hall/Nash, Bret, and even Flair to
>figure out their best shit. I think if we give some of these
>wrestling nerd workers we have now some time, some of them
>will figure it out too.

like i said above i think its actually clicking for Omega. i decided very early that i wasnt going to hold any pre-AEW nonsense against any of these people, but i also wasnt going to just accept the accolades either. they had to prove it to me. some guys are sinking (YBs) some are swimming (all the NWA imports + Darby/LAX/Pagex2, and some others), and some are finally starting to kick their legs (Omega)

Let's be clear: there has been a mountain of good ass, serious ass, adult ass, boss ass wrestling in the last 20 years. And not just in WWE either. When WCW died, it was time to look around and see what Japan was up to. Their indies were jumping, All Japan had just finished up mostly a decade of killer main events with a core group of folks (who then went to NOAH and kept the party rolling for a while), and New Japan had a smaller crew doing the same. And when New Japan stopped trying to be worked MMA and went back to rasslin again, their shit got mighty fun too. Then, as usual, they got pillaged by WWE (Balor, Nakamura, AJ Styles) and then AEW really took a bite out of them.

And a lot of the best ROH stuff holds up to scrutiny too. Less WWF character stuff. More NWA badass physical rasslin stuff. Yes, the guys were generally smaller, but it is easy to forget that Flair and Steamboat were considered small when they were out there 'tearing houses down' in 89 and before that. But Punk and Samoa Joe, Tyler Black/Seth Rollins, Daniel Bryan/American Dragon, and some others were doing good work for real.

WWE looked around at all of the same stuff plus the reborn indie scene in the 2000s and then went to town will the pillaging/partnering/etcetera. And now? Shiiiiid, they wouldn't have a roster if it wasn't for those other companies that some people refuse to look at. And real talk, some of the best stuff about WWE in the last 20 years has roots in All Japan and the indies in general.

And it is easy to hate on TNA because of how much they basically ended up as WCW Dies because they're idiots: part two (complete with Sting), but they had a lot of good moments in between fuck ups too. Kurt Angle was top end most of his time there. AJ Styles probably doesn't exist without it. A lot of folks got to work and get better there. And even right now, they're at least mildly watchable. There's some folks with size who don't do a lot of shenanigans but can work. I peek over there at them from time to time and I don't hate what I'm seeing. The women can generally go too. And they're allowed to do so, so that's cool too. And again, WWE is noticing cuz they have hella TNA folks on the scene right now.



>
>>I can get with lots of this. The format hasn't dramatically
>>changed. And the whole 'the company is the only real star'
>is
>>hard to disagree with as an obvious shift..especially with
>>WWE. But hell, that's pretty much what all American
>>entertainment and sports are trying to pull off. The ugly
>side
>>effect is that things seem to 'matter less' compared to
>before
>>because the company is gonna be being there no matter who
>wins
>>the rasslin matches. The good news for the companies is that
>>the show keeps going even if someone gets hurt, dies, and/or
>>acts a fool backstage and gets canned. To me, that's how WWE
>>can drop damn near a whole roster worth of folks, damn near
>a
>>3rd of the roster is stuck in catering at any given time,
>BUT
>>the show keeps on rolling, and the more entranced 'WWE is
>the
>>only show worth watching' folks thinks that means the folks
>>who got let go and/or can't get out of catering aren't good.
>>AKA WWE's plan is working on the fans. I'm embarrassed that
>>folks could still get worked by a wrestling company like
>>this.
>
>this is why not only do they not care if anyone ACTUALLY gets
>over, its in their best interest that NO one gets really and
>truly over. AEW does a similar thing, but its a lot less
>malicious. they have a cult of personality in their fanbase
>to the point that it doesnt really matter what happens, all
>that matters is that their indie darlings are the ones doing
>it.
>
>>For me, the good news is this: WWE's rasslers are VERY GOOD
>at
>>delivering a good show at the stadium. So, if you're there,
>>its gonna work on you. By comparison, it is hard to
>understate
>>how horrible WCW got to be delivering decent and coherent
>main
>>events. WWE was doing elaborate shenanigan finishers a lot
>too
>>but at least there were no cattle prods. And there were far
>>less overbearingly lazy workers in WWE's main event scene.
>
>to be honest, if WWE tv were condensed down to JUST the
>matches...it would be good. they are believable combatants
>with a ton of professional training, even if the style is a
>bit homogeneous. and WWE never had Kevin Nash throwing stones
>with "the book" and then hiding his hands afterwards, so the
>elaborate shenanigans were never done in service of anything
>other than the almighty draw.
>
>>People got their chains jerked like crazy with stories that
>>had folks excited matched with bad matches and shit
>finishes.
>>And, to me, that horrible period of rasslin broke something
>>inside of a lot of fans that has never been repaired. As for
>>me, I dove into Japan stuff, reached back to make sure I had
>a
>>decent handle on the 80s classic stuff, and peeked in on WWE
>>to make sure I didn't miss whatever Eddie, Booker T, and
>>Benoit were doing.
>
>i bailed on WCW before it really got truly awful, which sucked
>bc i grew up in a 605 Saturday night house and my first show
>was front row at JCP in 1988. its my understanding that WWE
>in 2003, 2005, 2006, and 2010 had a ton of legitimately good
>stuff but I had no wrestling friends around at that time so i
>missed just about all of it. by the time NJPW was an option
>for me i missed promos too much to really get into it. so ive
>basically just been twisting in the wind for 20 years waiting
>for what i hoped AEW would be. thats the real reason i have
>such a negative reaction to the worst of AEW.
>
>>The post-internet 'match quality/workrate obsession' thing
>was
>>fine as long as the wrestlers themselves weren't raising
>their
>>glasses to wink at folks about it over and over during the
>>show.
>
>yeah thats an immediate turnoff for me when the wrestlers do
>that.
>
>>IE: Ric Flair was a king shit badass in-ring wrestler. But
>he
>>didn't show up and talk about having 5-star matches. He
>showed
>>up talking about being rich, having all of the broads,
>having
>>the illest crew, and being THE MAN. And if you were gonna
>beat
>>him in a match, you were gonna have to fucking bring it (and
>>get around Flair not being above cheating). It made sense.
>It
>>kept the story going. And, like you said, it was presented
>>seriously even if there was dudes saying outrageous stuff,
>>dressing like assholes, doing over the top fake selling
>(Flair
>>flop) and all of that.
>
>the closest he ever came was talking about being a "60 minute
>man", but that could easily be interpreted as the character's
>attribute, not Richard Fliehr's. he also had that magical
>once in a generation ability to make you hate him amd want to
>be hom at the same time.
>
>>Now, Kenny Omega is a badass wrestler who can do a bunch of
>>shit physically that I enjoy. The thing I don't love is that
>>he talks about his match quality as a part of his gimmick.
>Its
>>Dolph Ziggler shit in the worst way. I think someone
>somewhere
>>is coaching him up about it though cuz he seems to be
>getting
>>better. I'm holding out hope. I'm also remember that it took
>>hella years for Hulk, Hall/Nash, Bret, and even Flair to
>>figure out their best shit. I think if we give some of these
>>wrestling nerd workers we have now some time, some of them
>>will figure it out too.
>
>like i said above i think its actually clicking for Omega. i
>decided very early that i wasnt going to hold any pre-AEW
>nonsense against any of these people, but i also wasnt going
>to just accept the accolades either. they had to prove it to
>me. some guys are sinking (YBs) some are swimming (all the
>NWA imports + Darby/LAX/Pagex2, and some others), and some are
>finally starting to kick their legs (Omega)

Let's not act like this was anything short of cringe:

https://youtu.be/ue1fBbqbFVk

>Let's not act like this was anything short of cringe:
>
>https://youtu.be/ue1fBbqbFVk

This haunted me. Someone should send this to Cornette. He loves to talk about fake-looking stuff with such disgust when it’s folks he generally doesn’t like.

He literally says, "Hey, this GREAT guy Tony Khan invited me here, but I haven't watched wrestling since the 1970s, before most of you were born. I still watch things on VHS! But that GREAT guy Tony Khan told me that they have great wrestlers here, but established and young and let me list them all for you! And he said the fans are GREAT and are like family and recognize how awesome were are! Hey, chant the federation's name for me! But I'm old and out of touch and I don't get it!"

What was "too real" there?

i realize he was working but it was all a little too on the nose for the fans and their reaction was funny

HeWebt out there as the old blowhard who can't get past his own era, thinks everything outside of his formative years is garbage- and won't shut the fuck up about it.

All so that the new monster of this current generation and promotion- managed by one of those old school legends he was praising to the rafters, mind you- could fuck him up.

Whatever he said was in service of that climactic moment.

The more he shits on thr company and product, the more we want to see him get his ass beat- and the more we appreciate the guy who delivered that beating.

This was about giving Murderhawk a memorable spot on a critical show.

It was a very good segment.

They wanted the crowd to pop for AEW, so it accomplished its goal. But if the other goal was to make Archer look badass, I don't think it really did that considering it's an old guy who the audience just met. And it's not like Archer is going to enter into a program with him or the MMA guy in the crowd. If Archer beats up Tully or Taz after they talk a bunch of shit, that's a different story. Then we can see Archer move on to a program with one of the wrestlers they manage.

It may be nitpicky, but I thought it was the weakest segment of an otherwise amazing show. And I really just want them to pick a lane with Archer. He doesn't come across like an anti-hero, which I think is their intention, he comes across like someone who switches from babyface to heel and back again every other week.

...from Wrestlemania XIV. Rose went for much cheaper heat (cliched Red Sox jokes), and Kane was the heel at the time, but it still got a decent crowd pop. It didn't do that much to build Kane, just like this didn't do much to build Archer, beyond the pop.

I do agree that they haven't figured out what to do with Archer. Espeically not since he lost to Miro. He's clearly capable of have good matches with smaller guys (loved his match with Fenix a few months ago), but I don't see who the future opponent is going to be.

They wanted the crowd to pop for AEW, so it accomplished its
>goal. But if the other goal was to make Archer look badass, I
>don't think it really did that considering it's an old guy who
>the audience just met. And it's not like Archer is going to
>enter into a program with him or the MMA guy in the crowd.

I disagree here.

I think there's more to come with this. I don't think this was a one off.

However, even if viewed strictly in a vacuum, just for the sole purpose of getting an AEW pop? On a return show like this?

It still works very well.

That isn't to say that we can't pick it apart and see flaws that vould be improved. But by and large, those things are negligible IMO

>It may be nitpicky, but I thought it was the weakest segment
>of an otherwise amazing show. And I really just want them to
>pick a lane with Archer. He doesn't come across like an
>anti-hero, which I think is their intention, he comes across
>like someone who switches from babyface to heel and back again
>every other week.

While I disagree with it being weak at all, the rest fo whT you said about Archer is a real issue. I don't think there's much room for disagreement there.

>HeWebt out there as the old blowhard who can't get past his
>own era, thinks everything outside of his formative years is
>garbage- and won't shut the fuck up about it.
>All so that the new monster of this current generation and
>promotion- managed by one of those old school legends he was
>praising to the rafters, mind you- could fuck him up.

are you trying to be condescending? because the idea for what this was supposed to be is not complicated, or even what Im talking about. and lol @ retrofitting Jake Roberts into a meaningful component of this. no one cared.

>Whatever he said was in service of that climactic moment.

Okay now we're getting close. There was no climactic moment because he didnt build them into a frothing rage, he made them feel self-conscious. Thats what I meant by too on the nose.

>The more he shits on thr company and product, the more we want
>to see him get his ass beat- and the more we appreciate the
>guy who delivered that beating.

Who's "we" white man? That was a babyface promo to a LOT of people. And again, are you trying to be condescending, or do you really think I dont know the point of a heel promo? Its not about the intent, its about the result.

My assertion is that it was not effective at achieving their "intro to wrestling psycholgy" goals because it hit the audience in an unintended way. They were supposed to get mad and built up for a catharsis. Instead they got awkward and self-conscious while they uncomfortably pondered the truth in his words until Lance Archer came and put them all out of their misery.

>This was about giving Murderhawk a memorable spot on a
>critical show.

Well it missed the mark.

>It was a very good segment.

No, it wasnt. Aside from what I already mentioned, why did Jorge Masvidal let his guy get tossed around like that? It doesnt even make sense, much less serve some higher psychological function.

And I'm willing to bet he'll spend 10 to 15 minutes selling it as such on the next episode of his podcast.

Yeah, the psychology was basic, but that's really the most you can expect these things to do (see: Pete Rose and Kane, which I mentioned above).

>>HeWebt out there as the old blowhard who can't get past his
>>own era, thinks everything outside of his formative years is
>>garbage- and won't shut the fuck up about it.
>>All so that the new monster of this current generation and
>>promotion- managed by one of those old school legends he was
>>praising to the rafters, mind you- could fuck him up.
>
>are you trying to be condescending?

Nope. But you're trying to have something other than a discussion right now.

>>The more he shits on thr company and product, the more we

>Who's "we" white man?

Half white. If you're going to do this bullshit, get it right.

Moreover, all the condescension here is coming from you.

I have no fucking clue how or why you thought to insert that into tbis, but it's a non sequitur. "We" being pro wrestling fans. Like i said. You're trying to make this about something else. That's on you.

>That was a babyface promo to a LOT of
>people.

In that case, those people are wrong. They're exactly what i said they are.

And here, I have an epiphany: You're likely one of thosr people.

It's a babyface promo to *you*. And that's likely why you're having your little tantrum about my post. I get it- some things hit so close to home, you can't help it.

It's all good though- there's still plenty of old school wrasslin' to be seen on the interwebs.

Moreover, virtually EVERY promo is a babyface promo "to a lot of people".

>And again, are you trying to be condescending,

I've read my comments and don't really see anything that can be reasonably construed as condescending.

But again: you, for whatever reason, decided to turn tbis into something other than a discussion.

>My assertion is that it was not effective at achieving their
>"intro to wrestling psycholgy" goals because it hit the
>audience in an unintended way. They were supposed to get mad
>and built up for a catharsis. Instead they got awkward and
>self-conscious while they uncomfortably pondered the truth in
>his words until Lance Archer came and put them all out of
>their misery.

That wasn't what i took from it. I think it did hit those goals.

This is called a "disagreement". That's a thing.

Since you're looking for that condescension and all, I'll indulge just a bit😉

>>This was about giving Murderhawk a memorable spot on a
>>critical show.
>
>Well it missed the mark.

No it didn't. Actually... A little. Dan Lambert may have a name in his world. Even as a semi-casual mma fan, I had to look him up.

Masvidal would have been a much better person to take that bump, or aomeone else. I have

>>It was a very good segment.
>
>No, it wasnt.

Yes, it was.

Not because I'm half white (again, not sure how that factors at all).
Not because im being condescending.

We just, you know, disagree.

Anyhow- that's all the time I have for this.

Feel free to have the last word if all you're going to do are these bullshit, performative theatrics. It's the internet. You'll have no trouble finding the interaction you're fishing for, but not from me.

>Nope. But you're trying to have something other than a
>discussion right now.

EDIT: and kick rocks? lol. i purposely dont really post at your stupid ass anyways, and you came to me doggie. sorry you dont like my words but next time you can always just not reply and go about your day being a twat to someone else.

Even now, you want to turn this into some other shit.

Lile i said... You can find that elsewhere, and easily. Go get it.

>and kick rocks? lol. i purposely dont really post at
>your stupid ass anyways, and you came to me doggie. sorry you
>dont like my words but next time you can always just not reply
>and go about your day being a twat to someone else.

It was a regular ass post that just happened to disagree with you and you're the one trying to make a beef.

This is clear as fucking day and moreover, it's clear that you're replying based on your personal issue with me, because nothing about my reply warrants your reaction.

It's been ages since I dealt with your corny ass at all. You're mad extra and way the fuck out of pocket for no good reason.

You're the problem here. You created an issue from thin air, and for what? To what end?

1) he summarized what Tony Khan "said to him" and then called him a liar at the end. he didnt put AEW over at all, even though im sure he meant to in a backhanded heel way. it missed the mark completely, and the only reaction he got in either direction was a half-hearted A-E-W chant that he homself started. the "too real" part happened when it became too hard to disagree with him so they just got quiet.

2) can we please put a moratorium on "out of touch"? out of touch with what? is it possible to be "out of touch" with a niche product with a niche audience? in the grander concept of what professional wrestling is, since when is it the fans job to be "in touch" with the product and not the other way around.

the parts of AEW that i dislike the most would actually go down a lot easier if Tony Khan et al stopped telling us its our fault that we think this shit is stupid, and instead said "we dont care if it ever gets hot or the critics like it, its for us and we're happy with it".

I’ve seen a couple people online defending it with “We don’t know what consequences there were backstage.” But how significant can those consequences be if he’s still on tv just days later? The dude needs help, and saying “He’s an independent contractor, what he does on his own time has nothing to do with us” is not the way to get him that help. At the very least, you gotta give him a lengthy suspension and a mandate that if he doesn’t go to rehab and get his act together you’ll fire him.

i thought they might keep him off at least a week but i guess the story must go on

>I’ve seen a couple people online defending it with “We
>don’t know what consequences there were backstage.” But
>how significant can those consequences be if he’s still on
>tv just days later? The dude needs help, and saying “He’s
>an independent contractor, what he does on his own time has
>nothing to do with us” is not the way to get him that help.
>At the very least, you gotta give him a lengthy suspension and
>a mandate that if he doesn’t go to rehab and get his act
>together you’ll fire him.

And it ain’t like that clan hasn’t had some folks go off a cliff in various ways before. Even their dad Rikishi had some rough days. I hope WWE doesn’t need another bad incident to put them back on duty publicly. I know a bunch of folks in power are generally tired of constant outrage but this is real stuff where folks can forreal end up hurt or worse.

I do think they need to work with him to fix this shit, but I highly doubt a suspension will make that difference.

If they're working with him to get his ass on track to kick this problem, that's all I care about here, because that should be the goal.

If they can reach that goal without being punitive, even better.

All that said, I don't have high hopes for him. At this point, this feels very much like a Jeff Hardy situation to me. He's at a critical juncture where his star is rising (not to the same degree as Jeff, to be clear, because Jeff had a genuine True Superstar air to him for a hot minute), and he's putting himself at a plateau as a result of this issue.

What I absolutely do not like- and where I do have common ground with your take, I think- is the reports that the reason they aren't kicking his ass royally over this one, is that they deem this current story line too important to derail, since it's supposedly headed toward Reigns vs Rock at Mania.

As a fan, seeing as how this is the best story line they've in what feels like half a decade (notable stories like Orton/Edge notwithstanding... they aren't this), sure. Do everything possible to keep this train rolling, especially with crowds coming back. I want to see it, all of it, in it's fully actualized form.

Just not at the expense of the human elements at stake. Both for himself, but for anyone he potentially hurts as a result of his actions.

So he's got to get his shit together. And if that's the thing holding them back from making a hard push to get him the help he needs, fuck Vince and anyone else in that chain. But as long as that's still happening, I don't need to see him punished for it. Just get the help.

If nothing else, use it in the story somehow. But get him the help he needs.

that first hour particularly was good with no qualifier

i wasnt as into the 3rd half hour (9-930) but overall a significantly better outing imo

a few notable things for me

1) Team Taz has been made to look so incredibly goofy that its almost frustrating when they are in something good (more on this later). its a testament to Taz, Starks, and Hobbs that the break up still mattered even after they were booked so unevenly. that being said, this was awesome. Starks has been my favorite guy since his first day, and Will Hobbs could be succeed in any era because he oozes authenticity.

2) Fuck Cody kinda. I hate that he can go away and do whatever he really wishes he was doing and then come back, talk into the camera, and immediately he's the most vital thing on the show again. I felt his words, but i also felt resentment for him letting the show be shitty while hes gone. Despite Excalibur's best efforts to ruin Tommy End's debut, Cody is making me care about it. Now he needs to fucking stick around and keep the entire show at this level.

3) WHERE THE FUCK WAS THAT ADAM PAGE PROMO 9 MONTHS AGO?? This is the strongest possible evidence that whatever dumbass story they want to tell is better left in their dream journals, and that they sould just focus on the goddamned basics. All that other stuff was so emotionally immature, yet overwraught at the same time. This was good. Real good. And again in what seems to be a trend, a slight dose of believability has made me care about yet another formerly dead angle. It doesnt really excuse the fact that we've known who Omega was losing the belt to since he won it, but baby steps.

4). There was no reason whatsoever for Ethan Page to lose other than hotshotting the closed coffin drop in front of fans. Heat never builds until it boils over, but rather its like they are working off a checklist, so as long as they hit the elements on the checklist everything is good. Learning a little restraint and letting the babyface suffer for longer would help the show overall imo. The match itself was good tho, and the final coffin drop WAS a memorable spot, even if it would have meant more after another 6 weeks of heat.

5) If Moxley-Anderson is what NJPW matches are like, its not at all for me. It was done seriously, with guys who did good promos to build it, and I can appreciate this version of Gallows and Anderson...but the burst of adrenaline no-selling, the letting yourself get punched in the face, the taking turns doing moves to each other...its not my cup of tea. But I did like the approach and the vibe of the thing, so it was a mixed bag for me.

6) Christian and Matt Hardy ended up doing more for me than I expected it to. But again, why is Christian blowing off his heat on a TV match the first time they wrestle? Still, good match that kinda surprised me with how much I enjoyed it.

All in all a solid episode with an excellent first hour. More like this plz.

give me the Acclaimed and the Varsity Blonds at each other's throats for the next 5 years please.

roundabout way to get there with a randomly constructed 8 man tag, but i need this in my life. the acclaimed finally got some heat that was just too much for even the smarties to endorse (no knock on them, its hard to earn more than polite boos in front of that crowd) and people are ACHING for a reason to explode for Pillman.

i love these teams. potential for legitimate mainstream appeal and a multi-year rivalry.

We might be about to see 'blow the load mode' for WWE and AEW for the next month at least. Having the fans back and having an opportunity, whether real or not, to sell people on the idea that rasslin is about to 'get hot' is clearly a big deal for them.

So, AEW is going to debut some folks, have as many big matches as they can, and try to make sure we get that their roster can do just about any style of rasslin somewhere along the way. And they can. And its a cool thing to have/I generally appreciate that AEW exists. As a whole, they are better than NJPW even though their main events don't be the absolute best king shit NJPW mains. And yay for variety even if I don't love everything I see every week.

WWE is going to bring their big guys, big names, and big time feel to the table for a while to make sure no one is confused about who number 1 is. NXT will keep on being the big money indie darling show, but they'll get all of those appropriate hands on deck too. I'll roll my eyes when Goldberg shows up for Lashley but its cool cuz we're probably getting some kind of Cena/Brock/Rock/somebody like that too. And we still have Daniel Bryan lurking around, so he might show up and knee the hell out of somebody too!

It should be a fun time to watch some rasslin. There's a lot of talent around. Nothing will ever be perfect, but that's not even what they're going for since we are in the video package era. We talk about it all the time here with WWE having some shaky builds to matches then the package and resulting big match can make you forget about the build to a degree.

And again, TNA/Impact is reasonable and competent on a regular basis too. So there's plenty to see. And if not, there's still a buttload of amazing stuff from the last 30 years that needs to be seen or seen again and WWE Network and youtube awaits us all.

>that first hour particularly was good with no qualifier
>
>i wasnt as into the 3rd half hour (9-930) but overall a
>significantly better outing imo
>
>a few notable things for me
>
>1) Team Taz has been made to look so incredibly goofy that its
>almost frustrating when they are in something good (more on
>this later). its a testament to Taz, Starks, and Hobbs that
>the break up still mattered even after they were booked so
>unevenly. that being said, this was awesome. Starks has been
>my favorite guy since his first day, and Will Hobbs could be
>succeed in any era because he oozes authenticity.
>
>2) Fuck Cody kinda. I hate that he can go away and do
>whatever he really wishes he was doing and then come back,
>talk into the camera, and immediately he's the most vital
>thing on the show again. I felt his words, but i also felt
>resentment for him letting the show be shitty while hes gone.
>Despite Excalibur's best efforts to ruin Tommy End's debut,
>Cody is making me care about it. Now he needs to fucking
>stick around and keep the entire show at this level.
>
>3) WHERE THE FUCK WAS THAT ADAM PAGE PROMO 9 MONTHS AGO??
>This is the strongest possible evidence that whatever dumbass
>story they want to tell is better left in their dream
>journals, and that they sould just focus on the goddamned
>basics. All that other stuff was so emotionally immature, yet
>overwraught at the same time. This was good. Real good. And
>again in what seems to be a trend, a slight dose of
>believability has made me care about yet another formerly dead
>angle. It doesnt really excuse the fact that we've known who
>Omega was losing the belt to since he won it, but baby steps.
>
>
>4). There was no reason whatsoever for Ethan Page to lose
>other than hotshotting the closed coffin drop in front of
>fans. Heat never builds until it boils over, but rather its
>like they are working off a checklist, so as long as they hit
>the elements on the checklist everything is good. Learning a
>little restraint and letting the babyface suffer for longer
>would help the show overall imo. The match itself was good
>tho, and the final coffin drop WAS a memorable spot, even if
>it would have meant more after another 6 weeks of heat.
>
>5) If Moxley-Anderson is what NJPW matches are like, its not
>at all for me. It was done seriously, with guys who did good
>promos to build it, and I can appreciate this version of
>Gallows and Anderson...but the burst of adrenaline no-selling,
>the letting yourself get punched in the face, the taking turns
>doing moves to each other...its not my cup of tea. But I did
>like the approach and the vibe of the thing, so it was a mixed
>bag for me.
>
>6) Christian and Matt Hardy ended up doing more for me than I
>expected it to. But again, why is Christian blowing off his
>heat on a TV match the first time they wrestle? Still, good
>match that kinda surprised me with how much I enjoyed it.
>
>All in all a solid episode with an excellent first hour. More
>like this plz.

>We might be about to see 'blow the load mode' for WWE and AEW
>for the next month at least. Having the fans back and having
>an opportunity, whether real or not, to sell people on the
>idea that rasslin is about to 'get hot' is clearly a big deal
>for them.

the month of July is gonna be pedal to the metal for sure, and I cant really blame anyone for that. id really like to see them come out after the next PPV and sort of reset some things tho. integrate some high level jabronies to do good TV jobs, moratorium on stipulations on Dynamite, etc.

>So, AEW is going to debut some folks, have as many big matches
>as they can, and try to make sure we get that their roster can
>do just about any style of rasslin somewhere along the way.
>And they can. And its a cool thing to have/I generally
>appreciate that AEW exists. As a whole, they are better than
>NJPW even though their main events don't be the absolute best
>king shit NJPW mains. And yay for variety even if I don't love
>everything I see every week.

thats the thing, i actually wholeheartedly appreciate that AEW exists. thats why the silly stuff from them is such a bummer, while the silly stuff from WWE doesnt register at all. WWE forsook my favorite parts of pro wrestling a long time ago, and would never have had Cody crashing the announce desk to cut a believeable extemporaneous promo.

>WWE is going to bring their big guys, big names, and big time
>feel to the table for a while to make sure no one is confused
>about who number 1 is. NXT will keep on being the big money
>indie darling show, but they'll get all of those appropriate
>hands on deck too. I'll roll my eyes when Goldberg shows up
>for Lashley but its cool cuz we're probably getting some kind
>of Cena/Brock/Rock/somebody like that too. And we still have
>Daniel Bryan lurking around, so he might show up and knee the
>hell out of somebody too!

i just wish they made a better TV show. Roman, LA Knight, and Lashley give me someone i like on each show, but thats like 20-25 minutes out of 7 hours of programming. 99.9% of the WWE ive watched over the last 21 years has been PPV events because the weekly TV just bums me out.

>It should be a fun time to watch some rasslin. There's a lot
>of talent around. Nothing will ever be perfect, but that's not
>even what they're going for since we are in the video package
>era. We talk about it all the time here with WWE having some
>shaky builds to matches then the package and resulting big
>match can make you forget about the build to a degree.

this is another thing i have trouble with in this era. i enjoy watching people trying to get over more than i like watching guys have a match just to have a match. if the guys are talkin that shit and forcing me to care about them, then the match just needs to be taken seriously and competently performed in terms of basics for me to be happy.

>And again, TNA/Impact is reasonable and competent on a regular
>basis too. So there's plenty to see. And if not, there's still
>a buttload of amazing stuff from the last 30 years that needs
>to be seen or seen again and WWE Network and youtube awaits us
>all.

i watched the Impact right after Omega won the belt and was struck by the dichotomy of some really good matches with some really putrid non-wrestling segments. like, it was shocking how far apart the two halves of the show were.

>3) WHERE THE FUCK WAS THAT ADAM PAGE PROMO 9 MONTHS AGO??

Eh, they were keeping his push on ice until fans were all the way back. It was risky, but it worked. Same thing with Jungleboy, albeit that’s a slower build. Hangman is ready for the title now and they knew he would be.

>
>4). There was no reason whatsoever for Ethan Page to lose
>other than hotshotting the closed coffin drop in front of
>fans.

I assumed Ethan was gonna win but in the moment the opposite makes more sense. They have all heel champs (well Britt is kinda face in THIS feud, but still), so with crowds back they’re gonna have some “send the fans home happy” moments to start out. Darby is the perfect dude for that.

>
>5) If Moxley-Anderson is what NJPW matches are like, its not
>at all for me. It was done seriously, with guys who did good
>promos to build it, and I can appreciate this version of
>Gallows and Anderson...but the burst of adrenaline no-selling,
>the letting yourself get punched in the face, the taking turns
>doing moves to each other...its not my cup of tea. But I did
>like the approach and the vibe of the thing, so it was a mixed
>bag for me.

I get it, but what if more talented guys do this though? The majority of the roster is better than Anderson and a significant amount are better than Mox (no disrespect to the guy). You should give New Japan a chance.

>Eh, they were keeping his push on ice until fans were all the
>way back. It was risky, but it worked. Same thing with
>Jungleboy, albeit that’s a slower build. Hangman is ready
>for the title now and they knew he would be.

there has to be some middle ground tho. they were still selling $50 ppvs, so a money-drawing promo every few weeks and a personal issue below the level of the title chase would have been perfectly appropriate.

>I assumed Ethan was gonna win but in the moment the opposite
>makes more sense. They have all heel champs (well Britt is
>kinda face in THIS feud, but still), so with crowds back
>they’re gonna have some “send the fans home happy”
>moments to start out. Darby is the perfect dude for that.

this was my one nit-pick that im most forgiving on. that coffin drop probably sold some tickets over the last 40 hours, and the fans in the building went home VERY happy. but theyve been letting the Inner Circle get immediate revenge for all misdeeds for months now, before the fans were in the picture.

>I get it, but what if more talented guys do this though? The
>majority of the roster is better than Anderson and a
>significant amount are better than Mox (no disrespect to the
>guy). You should give New Japan a chance.

idk if it matters who does it or not to be honest. the idea that repeated head trauma is the only way to earn a pin in a wrestling match offends my sensibilities, for one thing. for another, letting you potato me comes across to me as dumb, not brave or honorable.

i might order the Grand Slam ppv next week and see how it feels. i still dont understand their model for television tho. the show in Japan is just arena highlights, right? and the FITE show is actually mostly Americans?

.
>
>idk if it matters who does it or not to be honest. the idea
>that repeated head trauma is the only way to earn a pin in a
>wrestling match offends my sensibilities, for one thing. for
>another, letting you potato me comes across to me as dumb, not
>brave or honorable.
>
>i might order the Grand Slam ppv next week and see how it
>feels. i still dont understand their model for television
>tho. the show in Japan is just arena highlights, right? and
>the FITE show is actually mostly Americans?


I don’t watch whatever that AXS/Roku show is but I think it’s old highlight shit. I don’t know what is on Fite, is it called New Japan Strong? Cause that’s mostly Americans and it’s a great (and short) weekly studio show they’ve been running for a few months. I really enjoy it.

Their schedule is all over the place and they kinda announce it once a month but in general it’s like 2-3 “major” shows a month and then a bunch of “ Road to” shows that are used to set up the major shows to a certain degree, but are mostly skippable. They’re at their very best when they do tournaments though, specifically the G1 Climax.

The good thing is you can watch it all on their streaming service which converts to around 9-10 bucks a month (you don’t have to order PPVs, everything is included), but is difficult to navigate unless you’re already used to it. I typically run it on my laptop with google translate and connect to my tv, or chrome cast it from my phone… avoid their firetv app if you can help it. It’s a mess and you gotta log back in every time.

I get your complaints though. It certainly bothers me at times and they pay for it with having their stars hurt all the time.

>I don’t watch whatever that AXS/Roku show is but I think
>it’s old highlight shit. I don’t know what is on Fite, is
>it called New Japan Strong? Cause that’s mostly Americans
>and it’s a great (and short) weekly studio show they’ve
>been running for a few months. I really enjoy it.

ya, Strong is on Fite.

> Their schedule is all over the place and they kinda announce
>it once a month but in general it’s like 2-3 “major”
>shows a month and then a bunch of “ Road to” shows that
>are used to set up the major shows to a certain degree, but
>are mostly skippable. They’re at their very best when they
>do tournaments though, specifically the G1 Climax.

but this setup youre describing is also on Fite and i cant tell where one starts and the other ends :/ lol

Funny enough i remember reading the magazines as a kid in the 80s and seeing stuff about G1 and thinking it was a VERY big deal. In fact, i remember being really into New Japan in general when i was 8-9 years old. i remember Muta's first TBS run and that kinda primed me to be verrrrry curious about Masa Chono, Hiroshi Hase, Kensuke Sasake, etc. We even ordered the WCW - New Japan supershows that turned into Wrestle Kingdom. As im typing I remember i told an OKP like 15 years ago that i would make them a copy of that and i never did :(

>The good thing is you can watch it all on their streaming
>service which converts to around 9-10 bucks a month (you
>don’t have to order PPVs, everything is included), but is
>difficult to navigate unless you’re already used to it. I
>typically run it on my laptop with google translate and
>connect to my tv, or chrome cast it from my phone… avoid
>their firetv app if you can help it. It’s a mess and you
>gotta log back in every time.

this seems like the easiest way to go if i can send it right to the TV from my phone.

>ya, Strong is on Fite.

Gotcha. Yeah they just put that together during the pandemic cause they have a dojo in LA. Pretty entertaining and a little more storyline-based than their Japan product. They’re about to start doing it in front of live crowds and I’m hoping to go to one of those soon.

>Funny enough i remember reading the magazines as a kid in the
>80s and seeing stuff about G1 and thinking it was a VERY big
>deal. In fact, i remember being really into New Japan in
>general when i was 8-9 years old. i remember Muta's first TBS
>run and that kinda primed me to be verrrrry curious about Masa
>Chono, Hiroshi Hase, Kensuke Sasake, etc. We even ordered the
>WCW - New Japan supershows that turned into Wrestle Kingdom.
>As im typing I remember i told an OKP like 15 years ago that i
>would make them a copy of that and i never did :(

I’m still slowly catching up on old school New Japan stuff, but I’ve followed the G1 for the last 4-5 years and it’s my favorite time of the year. They usually run it in the summer but it’s in the fall this year so they don’t have to compete with the Olympics. It’s 2 blocks of 10 wrestlers competing round robin style with a point system. 2 points for a win, 1 point for a tie (30 minute time limit). Just a month of absolute 5-star work rate matches and Toru Yano adding comic relief. It’s a blast.

They usually do a bunch of multi-man tag matches before the tourney matches each show. They’re kinda fun and set up the following days tourney matches, but you literally can’t fit in the time to watch them all. Last year they skipped those due to COVID and just had their Young Lions (that’s their name for the trainees if you didn’t already know) fight each other every day and that was super fun. Hoping they go that route again but I think their current crop of young lions are about to graduate, so I doubt it.

>this seems like the easiest way to go if i can send it right
>to the TV from my phone.
>

Yeah, I’ve been doing that more and more lately. It’s fairly reliable and I can easily tell my google home to fast forward a few minutes if I don’t want to watch a certain match. Comes in handy during those “Road to blah blah blah” shows lol.

>I assumed Ethan was gonna win but in the moment the opposite
>makes more sense. They have all heel champs (well Britt is
>kinda face in THIS feud, but still), so with crowds back
>they’re gonna have some “send the fans home happy”
>moments to start out. Darby is the perfect dude for that.

The way I figure it, Allin is one of the most over guys in the fed. He drew very good/excellent ratings through the pandemic, and, honestly, Page and Sky had been kicking the shit out of him since the last PPV (tossing him down the stadium stairs, stomping him in a handicap match). I was expecting Page to go over, but I support Allin getting his get back. Besides, Page is now very over as a heel, so he should be fine moving forward.

No pun intended, of course. He def. could’ve used the win more than Darby, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s how they drew it up at first. Like I said, this early period with the crowds being back is gonna be kinda face-heavy and there ain’t nothing wrong with that. They could easily come back to this feud in a few months and give Ethan the win.

Edit: this could also be to establish the coffin match as Darby’s thing, give him a nice win streak in these when he has big feuds, then someone ends said streak and it’s a big deal. They’re probably not thinking about it that deep, but it’d be cool. His finisher IS named after a coffin after all.

but id like there to be some ramification for him losing a coffin match in such a definitive fashion

he hasnt been there long enough or built up emough momentum to be off TV for a while, but thats kinda what should come next right? sell the consequences of playing such a dangerous game?

>but id like there to be some ramification for him losing a
>coffin match in such a definitive fashion
>
>he hasnt been there long enough or built up emough momentum to
>be off TV for a while, but thats kinda what should come next
>right? sell the consequences of playing such a dangerous
>game?
>

He can go fuck up jabronis on Dark for a while. And when he’s back on Dynamite I wanna see him become an even more dastardly heel*

*if it’s possible to do more dastardly things than throwing someone down some stairs/into their family

>He can go fuck up jabronis on Dark for a while. And when
>he’s back on Dynamite I wanna see him become an even more
>dastardly heel*
>
>*if it’s possible to do more dastardly things than throwing
>someone down some stairs/into their family

then bring him back in a month in a wheelchair and neckbrace that turns out to be a ruse after 2 weeks

>
>then bring him back in a month in a wheelchair and neckbrace
>that turns out to be a ruse after 2 weeks
>

Love a good neck brace gimmick.

I hope Reigns carries the title at least into Mania next year

>I hope Reigns carries the title at least into Mania next
>year

He needs a couple more title loss scares mixed in between now and then.

Cena will be fun but he’s not gonna come back and win a title almost certainly. Unless it’s a win it then lose it back type of deal.

Brock probably doesn’t want to come back to lose. For me, WWE will be wise to steer clear of him for a while if that’s the case. Having champs who can be bothered to at least appear on the weekly shows is cool. With Brock, they have to pretend that the dude doesn’t exist until they can convince him to come around to set up another match. I don’t dig it at this point.

I was hoping they’d go with Cesaro.

that the Green Smiley Face Shirt guy would forget to buy a ticket. God, I hate his face.

Just constant skipping and pausing ever since the Charlotte match ended. It’s unwatchable.

Also, the WWE Network on Peacock is so much worse than it was on its own. Just horrible functionality. The setup makes zero sense. I forgot I even had it still, but I’m canceling.

WWE said you gotta log out and log back in… but yeah, Peacock sucks. The search function is shit.

Peacocks sucks. This WWE roster does not. When it’s showtime, it’s fucking go time. And they have a gang of folks who can damn well go. They handled their biz tonight. If everyone can turn off their inner Twitter and/or men on films steez for a bit, this one was easy to enjoy.

>We have a 2-night NXT starting tonight.
>
>We have a 2-night Mania starting Saturday.
>
>We have a Jericho interview on WWE Network this weekend too.
>Oh hush, it is good for everyone if rasslin companies are less
>salty with one another. We all know that Jericho has been at
>it for 30-ish years, he's been everywhere, and maybe this
>cracks the door open for something even cooler down the road.
>
>Will Ospreay is the NJPW mega/ultra/whatever heavyweight champ
>now. Meanwhile, Ricochet, a man who can also do many elaborate
>flips, is in catering at WWE. Speaking of something cool,
>maybe WWE should just give Ricochet to AEW..the same way they
>ALLEGEDLY gave Christian Cage to TNA in exchange for Flair
>getting to do the HOF that one time.
>
>I'm AM salty that Ricochet, Street Profits, Nakamura and
>Bayley don't have real spots on Mania week. There's about to
>be like 15 hours of WWE rasslin this week and they couldn't
>find anything for these folks to do? At least with Charlotte,
>there's COVID and other shenanigans to point to.
>
>BUT
>
>There should still be lots of good stuff this week, so sift
>through it and enjoy yoself!

So, after a PPV that's pretty universally regarded as an absolute slam dunk, they ran a Raw where:

1. Cena shows up and challenges someone who's not even there.
2. They bring back Keith Lee, only to have him essentially squashed by Lashley.
3. They give 54-year-old Goldberg another World Title shot on their second biggest show of the year.
4. As a surprise, they bring in their undefeated NXT champion, and job him out in less than two minutes to Jeff Hardy, who's they've been jobbing so hard that you'd think his contract is almost up.

So, yeah, I have no idea what they're doing.

https://tjrwrestling.net/wwe-announces-the-summer-of-cena-with-john-cena-appearing-at-many-events-in-july-and-august/

Holy shit if this is real. Especially if he’s gonna work at even a portion of those. I’m guessing he’ll be in some goofy/fun tag matches on the house shows?

>We have a 2-night NXT starting tonight.
>
>We have a 2-night Mania starting Saturday.
>
>We have a Jericho interview on WWE Network this weekend too.
>Oh hush, it is good for everyone if rasslin companies are less
>salty with one another. We all know that Jericho has been at
>it for 30-ish years, he's been everywhere, and maybe this
>cracks the door open for something even cooler down the road.
>
>Will Ospreay is the NJPW mega/ultra/whatever heavyweight champ
>now. Meanwhile, Ricochet, a man who can also do many elaborate
>flips, is in catering at WWE. Speaking of something cool,
>maybe WWE should just give Ricochet to AEW..the same way they
>ALLEGEDLY gave Christian Cage to TNA in exchange for Flair
>getting to do the HOF that one time.
>
>I'm AM salty that Ricochet, Street Profits, Nakamura and
>Bayley don't have real spots on Mania week. There's about to
>be like 15 hours of WWE rasslin this week and they couldn't
>find anything for these folks to do? At least with Charlotte,
>there's COVID and other shenanigans to point to.
>
>BUT
>
>There should still be lots of good stuff this week, so sift
>through it and enjoy yoself!

He gets to do Japan stuff too. Limited dates allegedly. It should be big fun and, if nothing else, good ass matches…especially in Japan where there’s less shenanigans and more ‘hey, go work a good azz match, mfer’.

They’re allegedly talking to Phil too. I care much less about that but it makes sense if they can get him and he shows up in shape ready to do something. If AEW is gonna blow money trying to ha e a good rasslin company, they may as well fucking go for it. They need to get Jericho out of important matches cuz he’s somewhere around done. And they need some folks to help make their indie darling dudes feel mighty real.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.wrestlinginc.com/news/2021/07/daniel-bryan-rumored-to-have-signed-with-aew/

>We have a 2-night NXT starting tonight.
>
>We have a 2-night Mania starting Saturday.
>
>We have a Jericho interview on WWE Network this weekend too.
>Oh hush, it is good for everyone if rasslin companies are less
>salty with one another. We all know that Jericho has been at
>it for 30-ish years, he's been everywhere, and maybe this
>cracks the door open for something even cooler down the road.
>
>Will Ospreay is the NJPW mega/ultra/whatever heavyweight champ
>now. Meanwhile, Ricochet, a man who can also do many elaborate
>flips, is in catering at WWE. Speaking of something cool,
>maybe WWE should just give Ricochet to AEW..the same way they
>ALLEGEDLY gave Christian Cage to TNA in exchange for Flair
>getting to do the HOF that one time.
>
>I'm AM salty that Ricochet, Street Profits, Nakamura and
>Bayley don't have real spots on Mania week. There's about to
>be like 15 hours of WWE rasslin this week and they couldn't
>find anything for these folks to do? At least with Charlotte,
>there's COVID and other shenanigans to point to.
>
>BUT
>
>There should still be lots of good stuff this week, so sift
>through it and enjoy yoself!

Most of the matches were good to pretty good; exceptions being the Kazarian/Gallows match, which was bad, and the main event, which I thought was excellent. However, the super hot crowd elevated just about everything.

In other news, I was not expecting a Nick Gage appearance. And Chavo coming through in Texas made sense. A lot of the card was set-up for next week, but it was a brisk and pretty entertaining show.

I haven't seen a heel get heat like that in a LONG time.

The rematch is going to make them a lot of money (relative to their normal numbers).

>I haven't seen a heel get heat like that in a LONG time.
>
>The rematch is going to make them a lot of money (relative to
>their normal numbers).

It is cool to see that promoters can still work their crowds sometimes. It is funny (and lowkey sad) that some of these fans don't know that they're getting worked.

>It is cool to see that promoters can still work their crowds
>sometimes. It is funny (and lowkey sad) that some of these
>fans don't know that they're getting worked.



*the fact that that phrase enrages fans is awesome.

Some fans getting worked and giving Matt Cardona the person heat.
Some fans *getting it* and giving Matt Cardona the character heat (which is the goal).
Some fans upset that GCW/promoter is booking Cardona to go over their hero.

Really hard to say what the majority is.

I watched the finish and post-match celebration, man I loved it

https://twitter.com/HulkHogan/status/125437560418865152?s=20

That theme is a killer.

Say what you will about Fozzy as a serious rock band.

Judas, as a pro wrestling entrance theme, is as good as they come, and better than 99% of every other theme. It doesn't have the time and longevity to be as iconic as so many of the themes we all know and love.

And we've had some truly iconic themes. Yes, Real American is about as iconic as it gets. It's part & parcel with Hulkamania, and everything comes with it.

The Rock and Austin both have themes that are great in and of themselves, but they blow the roof off because of the stars that are attached.

HBK's theme is pure magic, even if it's a bit bizarre. It was perfect for who and what Shawn Michaels was as a performer. It's iconic.

Taker's theme, and entrance? Perfection. It's incredible.

Edge has a theme that also kills. Not as a traditional rock song, but it's such a perfect synergy with Edge, who has had a fantastic career in his own right.

There's a lot of those. No Chance In Hell absolutely kills. It's fine on it's own, but it's so much greater because it's attached to the biggest big dog the industry has ever seen.

The Hardys theme, especially at their Mania return? One of the best Mania moments ever. That was special, especially with New Day swerve. Sure, anyone who followed things online knew what to expect. But that shit still popped, especially if you were a part of that generation of fandom. And watching Kofi emulate Jeff's, uh, dance? That's half of what this shit is all about.

So I realize this is a long and distinguished list, and I'm leaving out a lot.

I still think Judas is special, and in a class of it's own.

Again, it lacks the longevity and consistent exposure throughout a generation to really seal the deal as an iconic theme that plays across the board. I can't really rank it with those, for that reason.

That said, Judas, hand in hand with it's own all-time great star, helped build another company. It's an attraction unto itself, and I think the pandemic robbed us of a few events where we would have likely seen more engaging and creative renditions.

The Revolution performance with the choir certainly had a buzz. But instant and intense

The intense crowd reaction and sing along every time it hits? That really has no rival. It's special, every time out. It hurts him a bit when he's a heel, but he's crafty enough to still make people hate him in light of it.

What we're seeing now isn't just a post-lockdown return. Those reactions have always been there. I get that this may feel like a hot take to other, older and seasoned fans, but it's anything but. Frankly, it represents the pinnacle of one of the all-time great careers and performers, cementing an indelible legacy in the twilight of his career in a way that makes it hard not to put him side by side with names that were once a reach. Not so anymore, not after so many spectacularly successful reinventions.

Judas, as a song, is just about the perfect pro wrestling theme, melding seamlessly with the star, written and performed by the star himself, no less.

I love that shit. That's the shit that makes me love pro wrestling.

And Jericho is a guy who had a well known theme that he had for his entire WWE run. Interesting that a guy so attached to one theme song(I can’t imagine too many wrestlers had one theme for longer than Jericho had Break the Walls Down), was able to make the transition to a new theme so well. Like.....nobody misses Break the Walls Down. It doesn’t feel weird at all. Jerichc’s ability to reinvent himself applies to his theme music too, I guess.

Pretending that Jericho isn’t a big deal for the last 25-ish years of rasslin is a fool’s errand at this point. He’s got the feuds. He’s got the variety. He’s got the moments. And he’s survived slumps without having to go away for a decade to do it.

He’s certainly coming towards the end of his run in the ring but I think he knows and he’s going all out and doing random and/or cool shit. It’s easy to accept that getting him was huge for buying AEW some time even if the game for a bunch of folks is to hold AEW to a hilariously unrealistic set of standards that have never existed for any show at any time ever.

Meanwhile, these folks are signing good ass rasslers that we thought we would never see again, making deals with NJPW to get real members of their roster on US TV again, and trying to build something worth a damn for our ungrateful and hard to please selves. Sure, there’s bad shit and rough edges on basically every TV rasslin show..even the mostly fun Smackdown. Of course. But it ain’t like AEW is worst days TNA by any stretch.

And yeah, Judas clearly works on people. And it IS crazy that he’s had two top shelf themes. If you’re asking me to pick all-time, I couldn’t. Give me No Chance in Hell for semi-recent and Savage or Flair for all-time. When their music hit, you knew fucking well that it was on. It is wild to watch 80s wrestling and see that not everyone had themes. Stan Hansen’s Japan shit was top shelf too. When he for real swung his rope INTO THE CROWD, it’s never not crazy.

Oh shit, I just thought about THE HEAT that Ciampa got when he started coming out with no theme. He was walking Randy Orton slow and absorbing mountains of hate. And it was excellent.

>That theme is a killer.
>
>Say what you will about Fozzy as a serious rock band.
>
>Judas, as a pro wrestling entrance theme, is as good as they
>come, and better than 99% of every other theme. It doesn't
>have the time and longevity to be as iconic as so many of the
>themes we all know and love.
>
>And we've had some truly iconic themes. Yes, Real American is
>about as iconic as it gets. It's part & parcel with
>Hulkamania, and everything comes with it.
>
>The Rock and Austin both have themes that are great in and of
>themselves, but they blow the roof off because of the stars
>that are attached.
>
>HBK's theme is pure magic, even if it's a bit bizarre. It was
>perfect for who and what Shawn Michaels was as a performer.
>It's iconic.
>
>Taker's theme, and entrance? Perfection. It's incredible.
>
>Edge has a theme that also kills. Not as a traditional rock
>song, but it's such a perfect synergy with Edge, who has had a
>fantastic career in his own right.
>
>There's a lot of those. No Chance In Hell absolutely kills.
>It's fine on it's own, but it's so much greater because it's
>attached to the biggest big dog the industry has ever seen.
>
>The Hardys theme, especially at their Mania return? One of the
>best Mania moments ever. That was special, especially with New
>Day swerve. Sure, anyone who followed things online knew what
>to expect. But that shit still popped, especially if you were
>a part of that generation of fandom. And watching Kofi emulate
>Jeff's, uh, dance? That's half of what this shit is all about.
>
>
>So I realize this is a long and distinguished list, and I'm
>leaving out a lot.
>
>I still think Judas is special, and in a class of it's own.
>
>Again, it lacks the longevity and consistent exposure
>throughout a generation to really seal the deal as an iconic
>theme that plays across the board. I can't really rank it with
>those, for that reason.
>
>That said, Judas, hand in hand with it's own all-time great
>star, helped build another company. It's an attraction unto
>itself, and I think the pandemic robbed us of a few events
>where we would have likely seen more engaging and creative
>renditions.
>
>The Revolution performance with the choir certainly had a
>buzz. But instant and intense
>
>The intense crowd reaction and sing along every time it hits?
>That really has no rival. It's special, every time out. It
>hurts him a bit when he's a heel, but he's crafty enough to
>still make people hate him in light of it.
>
>What we're seeing now isn't just a post-lockdown return. Those
>reactions have always been there. I get that this may feel
>like a hot take to other, older and seasoned fans, but it's
>anything but. Frankly, it represents the pinnacle of one of
>the all-time great careers and performers, cementing an
>indelible legacy in the twilight of his career in a way that
>makes it hard not to put him side by side with names that were
>once a reach. Not so anymore, not after so many spectacularly
>successful reinventions.
>
>Judas, as a song, is just about the perfect pro wrestling
>theme, melding seamlessly with the star, written and performed
>by the star himself, no less.
>
>I love that shit. That's the shit that makes me love pro
>wrestling.

his entrance fit the way it was used in the movie, and nobody else could have ever pulled it off

massive step back last night, bookended by some of the silliest, most self-indulgent garbage ive ever seen on a pro wrestling TV show.

the beginning was the most Barnum and Bailey circus shit ive seen in a long time. actually i take that back. 6-7 Barnum and Bailey performers would have been able to catch Stu Grayson instead of letting his head bounce off the floor. this shit is for people who want to make fun of wrestling,and no one will ever be able to convince me otherwise. even those goofs Gallows and Anderson looked embarrassed, and those two clowns wear jerseys with the number "69" on them.

its fascinating how Adam Page continues to be teflon tho, as he rolls around in week old elephant shit and somehow emerges cleaner than he was before he went in.

the end...well its not really even worth typing about how terrible it was. after the first 10 seconds, JR shitting on it was the only thing keeping my interest. Jericho has turned himself into what people who hate wrestling think wrestling is.

everything else fell in between "decent" and "dumb but not embarrassing". Santana/Ortiz - FTR was legit good but marred by a scary freak injury to one of my favorite guys anywhere in wrestling .

Cage interrupting Starks in his ring gear despite not wrestling was entertaining while my sister and I envisioned him living his daily life in patent leather boxer briefs. Starks

Thunder Rosa continues to be Thunder Rosa: acting, wrestling, and looking like a star at all times. her ring gear game is suuuuuper on point.

more Blonds-Acclaimed please. great fiery babyface promo from Pillman.

yet another good-to-great promo from Moxley. almost made me give 1/16th of a fuck about Tanahashi. im sure the match will be terrible tho.

Miro as a Christian heel is funny for all the wrong reasons, altho i did appreciate that his shorts had the word "kumite" on them.

Luchasaurus was overexposed a long time ago and is now an anchor around Jungle Boy's neck.

Hot Shot Summer is in full

but Omega, Bucks, Gallows/Anderson seem to be in on some unfunny joke. In the end, what's the difference between what they're doing and what Vince thinks is good? Dogshit is dogshit.

If DB and Punk are really coming I hope they bring some legitimacy to the main event picture.

AEW went from fake crazy fake tough champ Moxley to unfunny fake paranoid champ Omega. (god Moxley's flask-swigging promo about being locked out of Japan was PAINFUL)

Omega is so laughably bad at everything except for actual wrestling. Right now he's being booked as poorly as Reigns was being booked until the Tribal Chief heel turn.

This is an interesting theory. I'm not sure. Maybe it is as simple as 'folks shouldn't crutch on humor as a way to try to GET over as a top guy but its okay to do occasionally as a mix-up once you're there'.

In some ways, the old school top guys (especially WWF) found a way to work humor into their normal stuff in a way that works on people maybe even more now than it did before. Just watch random Savage and Hogan promos from their top shit days. Hella comedy and absurdity. The good news was that they made sure to get in their slogans and their 'Friday night at the wherever, its gonna be me and you for the title, and I'm gonna win' talk folks into the building shit.

Or hell, think of Flair winning the 92 Royal Rumble. The Brain was almost total comedy on the commentary to put that shit over. And NWA Flair's random and ridiculous promos were at least a little funny then even to me as a kid. Him rolling up telling Tony that his shoes costed more than his whole outfit, his house, or whatever was good times.

But now, with top guys having so much pushback against them as top guys in this era of complaining, there DOES seem to be less room for sneaking in jokes and even less room for overtly trying to be funny at the top of the card. And really, who are we kidding...a lot of these dudes grew up off Attitude Era where there was hella jokes and over the top clowning. But these newer folks leave the part out that those dudes were all ridiculously over already and could damn near do anything and it would've worked, so comedy was a way to eat time/not actually have to wrestle. Now, folks are trying to GET over by being fake azz Stone Cold, The Rock, nWo, HBK or whoever they think was big shit back then. Now we have all seen too many nWos and too many HBKs (and not enough Bret Harts for my taste but that's another talk for another time).

>but Omega, Bucks, Gallows/Anderson seem to be in on some
>unfunny joke. In the end, what's the difference between what
>they're doing and what Vince thinks is good? Dogshit is
>dogshit.
>
>If DB and Punk are really coming I hope they bring some
>legitimacy to the main event picture.
>
>AEW went from fake crazy fake tough champ Moxley to unfunny
>fake paranoid champ Omega. (god Moxley's flask-swigging promo
>about being locked out of Japan was PAINFUL)
>
>Omega is so laughably bad at everything except for actual
>wrestling. Right now he's being booked as poorly as Reigns was
>being booked until the Tribal Chief heel turn.

snapping on people is funny, someone you believe is actually an absurd human being a la Randy Savage is funny, a cocky prick getting humiliated a la Jim Cornette and a birthday cake is funny, even the hyperbolic absurdity of Stone Cold in hospital scrubs is funny,

but wrestlers in contrived skits attempting to do comedic theatre is almost never funny, unless its actually on SNL and it came out of their writers' room

Bobby Heenan was the perfect example. when youre just a funny motherfucker you dont need to do comedy

Got it. This makes sense. 'Natural' funny vs 'trying to be funny'.

It would make sense that the recipes would be lost from that era though. So many folks are dead. Others aren't exactly interested in truly helping the next era and would rather do the complain festival shows and/or the back in my day grandstands because you can do really well for yourself by sitting back and complaining about shit nowadays. And it is a much easier gig.

That and there's not a lot of glory in doing the hard background fixing shit work..trying to talk folks out of their worst habits is pain in the ass work fo sho. I deal with it at my gig all the time. If I could just make a podcast where I Hammer of Dawn my coworkers every day, it would be MUCH easier than trying to motivate them to keep doing the good stuff and stop doing the bad/unsustainable stuff.

And shit, sometimes, tired is just a real thing that humans experience. Like I have put down a lot of words about Jim Cornette. But to me? Sometimes? Dude just sounds TIRED. And sure, sometimes he's 'right' and/or he makes a good point, but he also knows damn well that his show is built on carrying a mostly negative stance, trying to 'predict' the next bad thing that he'll hate and why, and just generally holding grudges while trying to slide some good ole Cornette jokes and insults in there. The most priceless thing is that he spends more time talking about the shows than actually watching them lots of the time. I still listen occasionally because he's so great and engaging when talking about the stuff he was around for whether he liked it or not. But the not watching shit then throwing hate on it? THAT is the shit I'm very tired of in the podcast universe in general. Another example is fantasy football pods where the folks clearly aren't watching the games..they're compiling stats then creating lazy stances based on the numbers. Or music pods where folks go on and on negatively about music that they don't listen to.

Omega winning the match makes sense, as it does set-up up Page eventually kicking out of the One-Winged Angel and winning the title at All Out. But the booking of the match itself was pretty awful.

First, The Elite seem like they're turning themselves in the NWO, which is never good long-term. Second, their insistence on "protecting" the Good Brothers (especially Gallows) is beyond infuriating at this point. Third, they had a chance to not make the Dark Order look like goofs, and they barely tried. Fourth, the should have made Page look like **some** sort of threat, but did it half-assed.

Again, it still looks like Page is going to over in Sept, so they still have time to salvage this. But they need to course correct.

At least it doesn't look like they're going to hotshot the title to Punk. They appear to not-so-subtly setting up him vs. Allin at the PPV.

I think another problem is the "Young Bucks are smarter than everyone!" angle is tiresome. It's not helped by the fact that AEW's tag division, once a huge strength, has been fairly hampered by injuries. The best teams remaining are either involved in other feuds, heels, or both. But I'm hoping that they soon let FTR get their win back over the Bucks.

The Jericho/Gage didn't really both me. It was a one-off and I doubt they bring Gage back in any way down the road.

I agree that Miro as the psycho Christian works. I especially like his shouts to his "double-jointed" wife.

https://www.wwe.com/article/bray-wyatt-released

His booking never did him any favors, and his physical condition changed with the seasons. But they wouldn’t let a guy that talented just leave without cause. This isn’t Aleister Black, an unproven internet daring…this is a former champion who not long ago had the hottest character on the show.

I suspect more will come out on this in the days ahead. Hope dude’s head is right and there’s no substance situation or anything terrible.

what was he gonna do, come back and be Windham Rotunda, amateur grappler?

this is a natural consequence of booking roles and needing guys to fill them rather than booking pro wrestlers. when the role is dead, then what?

i suspect he will be back at some point but hes gotta go away. Retribution showed that nobody in WWE knows how to do a worked-shoot angle anymore, but the setup is there to do one here right down to the Brian Pillman Memorial Official Release™. he can even be mad about the way they did his dad last year.

>
>I suspect more will come out on this in the days ahead. Hope
>dude’s head is right and there’s no substance situation or
>anything terrible.

He’s definitely a weird dude, but he seems very nice and family-oriented. I’d be surprised if he was dealing with any serious demons. I think they just believe they’ve gotten everything they can out of him, and maybe they’re not wrong, but it is their fault.

As someone somewhere else wrote, imagine if they'd done this to the Undertaker between 1995 and 2005. There were many, many points where they could have said, "Welp, we've explored every possible angle and gotten everything we can out of him. Time to cut him loose and move on." But they didn't. They took him off TV for a while and figured something out.

Now, they're supposedly more profitable than they've ever been, and they're cutting loose guys who've been loyal to them forever.

>Now, they're supposedly more profitable than they've ever
>been, and they're cutting loose guys who've been loyal to them
>forever.

That’s the craziest part. It’s no secret that they haven’t suffered at all during the pandemic. Vince has just become obsessed with meeting the shareholders’ expectations every quarter. So the message to talent and backstage personnel is it doesn’t matter what you do or how loyal you are. Everyone who isn’t Randy Orton or Roman Reigns now knows they’re not safe. In the short-term, this doesn’t affect them all that match, but when the contract of a guy like Finn Balor is up? He’s probably gonna jump ship before they get the chance to cut him a year into his next deal. Shit, who’s to say Rollins doesn’t do the same? Sure, they’re probably not gonna cut him, but when Wyatt and Strowman are among those getting cut, all bets are off. It’s one thing when you’re cutting people who have just been hanging around the performance center for years doing nothing, but cutting major guys like that are serious morale killers for everyone remaining. And not everyone can go to AEW, but there are also a few other options out there.

WWE is the number one rasslin company in the world. It isn’t going to change anytime soon.

AEW exists, has a bunch of money, and they haven’t TNA’d themselves yet even with folks acting like it’s a crime against humanity when they aren’t great every time out..

And WWE is fat. They have enough wrestlers to fill multiple shows with little to no overlap. So letting some folks go is good zoomed out. When they let someone go who thinks they have something left, that person SHOULD BE upset. And energized. And that energy, if used properly, can and will eventually help AEW and the other indies too. And, as usual, if there’s good wrestling going on in various places, WWE will eventually have to get off of their asses and do better. And they won’t be able to just buy up folks as easily this time because these cuts WILL make folks think twice about taking the WWE money just to sit in catering waiting for their 7 minute shot on Raw to do something exciting.

To me, all of this means better wrestling and better wrestlers in more places. I’m excited and scared like Jessie Spano.

If AEW even kinda sorta gets Bryan and Punk right, it’s gonna be a party. And they might get Adam Cole and Wyatt too? All of this seems good to me!

>
>>Now, they're supposedly more profitable than they've ever
>>been, and they're cutting loose guys who've been loyal to
>them
>>forever.
>
>That’s the craziest part. It’s no secret that they
>haven’t suffered at all during the pandemic. Vince has just
>become obsessed with meeting the shareholders’ expectations
>every quarter. So the message to talent and backstage
>personnel is it doesn’t matter what you do or how loyal you
>are. Everyone who isn’t Randy Orton or Roman Reigns now
>knows they’re not safe. In the short-term, this doesn’t
>affect them all that match, but when the contract of a guy
>like Finn Balor is up? He’s probably gonna jump ship before
>they get the chance to cut him a year into his next deal.
>Shit, who’s to say Rollins doesn’t do the same? Sure,
>they’re probably not gonna cut him, but when Wyatt and
>Strowman are among those getting cut, all bets are off. It’s
>one thing when you’re cutting people who have just been
>hanging around the performance center for years doing nothing,
>but cutting major guys like that are serious morale killers
>for everyone remaining. And not everyone can go to AEW, but
>there are also a few other options out there.

...guys who love and know good wrestling, who are grooming stars just to watch their heads eventually roll

It's sad

Just crazy that they can have these unforced errors merely because they want to meet promises to shareholders. They’ve gone way past trimming the fat and are actively hurting themselves long-term, but I agree it’s tough to see them losing their #1 spot, at least from a money-making perspective. They’re too much of a machine. I just hope AEW stays a private company and Tony Khan stays a fanboy.

>Just crazy that they can have these unforced errors merely
>because they want to meet promises to shareholders. They’ve
>gone way past trimming the fat and are actively hurting
>themselves long-term, but I agree it’s tough to see them
>losing their #1 spot, at least from a money-making
>perspective. They’re too much of a machine. I just hope AEW
>stays a private company and Tony Khan stays a fanboy.

Yep to all of this. WWE has not proven that they can or even want to evolve beyond having a few folks they consider main eventers. They probably think they done a lot to have 3 main shows (Raw, SD, NXT) that all have their 2-3 regular basis main event folks. Maybe they think 'as long as we have that for every brand, we're good'. I'd love to see their 'list' of folks they love right now. We could probably guess it and there's probably a few jackass folks penciled in like Omos.

It would take something non-competition related to screw up the lead for WWE. They're basically a sports franchise now: they're gonna make money almost no matter what. Maybe if they sold and some non-Triple Haitch person was put in charge, that would be enough to set the wheels in motion for things to go south? Maybe not even then as long as Steph and/or Shane were in the mix somehow.

The craziest thing now is that they have mind control over a lot of WWE only fans. Its so strong that some WWE fans won't even watch NXT! And it so really wild to see how these same fans will go from generally liking a wrestler to 'deciding' the same wrestler is basically worthless as soon as they leave WWE. All of a sudden, a 38-year old dude is old. Or a guy that folks wanted to be pushed just isn't a big deal cuz he couldn't get over 'on the big show'.

For instance, I'm horrified for Adam Cole whenever he's anywhere but NXT because folks will all of a sudden be obsessed with how small he is. Personally, I never cared much about him until he starting lighting shit up in big moments in NXT. They won't be able to call him old. He's 32!

Well, alrighty then.

Online chatter is that the "Plane Ride From Hell" Dark Side of the Ring episode is a very bad look for Flair so WWE parted ways before it airs to separate themselves from him.

>Online chatter is that the "Plane Ride From Hell" Dark Side
>of the Ring episode is a very bad look for Flair so WWE parted
>ways before it airs to separate themselves from him.

It’s a pretty old story. There’s gotta be more to it than this.

https://old.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/n30bxn/im_currently_convinced_the_plane_ride_from_hell/

Okay let’s see where this goes

>https://old.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/n30bxn/im_currently_convinced_the_plane_ride_from_hell/

Some folks are always looking for more blood/more folks to cancel. Flair seems like a fair enough target and there's been enough 'this dude isn't a great guy' stories to throw in with whatever this will be for folks to all of a sudden decide that Flair can't join in any more reindeer games.

Or maybe, people will see it, say 'yeah, those folks are all ayyholes. But wassup with that, Vince!?', and the focus will be on him. Certainly folks aren't gonna full-on 2021 cancel Vince for this of all things, right? Right?

Right? Hmm...maybe that WWE sale is coming sooner than any of would think if this shit goes completely sideways.

He's got a sexual assault allegation in his past that no one talks about. Plus we now know he's responsible for Owen Hart's death. Not to mention he looked terrible during the ring boy scandal of the 90's and that's public knowledge. Basically everyone knows he's a cold-blooded motherfucker... and yet, he can come out at the end of a pandemic, say "where the hell have you been?" and we all laugh cause he's like our wacky billionaire grandpa.

Flair is kinda close to un-cancellable, but if it comes out that his ladies man image was much more rapey than people want to remember, I can see him getting halfway cancelled.

Police have video of Kraft getting handjobs from likely trafficked women. Trump become President. Yadda yadda yadda.

Donald Sterling is the only exception. And nothing really "happened" to Sterling in the end except him making more money from the selling the Clippers.


>Flair is kinda close to un-cancellable, but if it comes out
>that his ladies man image was much more rapey than people want
>to remember, I can see him getting halfway cancelled.

I feel like Flair admitted to a lot of suspect shit in that 30 For 30 a few years ago. Plus, there have been A LOT of articles talking about his questionable finances and dealings with women. I don't know if an episode of "Dark Side of the Ring" on Vice TV moves the meter.

>Online chatter is that the "Plane Ride From Hell" Dark Side
>of the Ring episode is a very bad look for Flair so WWE parted
>ways before it airs to separate themselves from him.

https://twitter.com/RicFlairNatrBoy/status/1422592144896839683

Also note WWE didn't wish him well on his future endeavors on their official announcement.

It was only afterwards that Vince did the "damage control" of "We let him go because of Dark Side of the Ring."

https://twitter.com/SeanRossSapp/status/1423816333649715204


-Bobby Fish
-Bronson Reed
-Jake Atlas
-Ari Sterling
-Kona Reeves
-Leon Ruff
-Stephon Smith
-Tyler Rust
-Zechariah Smith
-Asher Hale
-Giant Zanjeer
-Mercedes Martinez.

I don't know if he's pissed because it "lost" to AEW, or doesn't see the use in most of the wrestlers over there, but him and the other Kahn are either cutting almost everyone or "moving" them onto the main roster and embarrassing them.

Fish has been injured for a while, but Reed was a damn champion over there not that long ago, and won the belt in a genuine emotional moment.

Maybe Triple HHH and Shawn are the only ones with any stake in what happens over there anymore.

>
>Maybe Triple HHH and Shawn are the only ones with any stake in
>what happens over there anymore.

Not that I'm Aitch's biggest fan, but he's been getting it right more often than the old man as far as guessing who will be great. I can see why Vince doesn't particularly love Bronson Reed (he likes REALLY big guys and Reed just won't look like that on the main roster), but at this point he should just be trusting Hunter's judgment on some of this talent.

I get some of these cuts and kinda understand why they didn't think they'd get much out of Bobby Fish post-UE, but Tyler Rust JUST joined a new faction and Leon Ruff had one of the best feel good moments of the last year. They don't affect the bottom line so much that you gotta throw them away.

>>
>>Maybe Triple HHH and Shawn are the only ones with any stake
>in
>>what happens over there anymore.
>
>Not that I'm Aitch's biggest fan, but he's been getting it
>right more often than the old man as far as guessing who will
>be great. I can see why Vince doesn't particularly love
>Bronson Reed (he likes REALLY big guys and Reed just won't
>look like that on the main roster), but at this point he
>should just be trusting Hunter's judgment on some of this
>talent.
>
>I get some of these cuts and kinda understand why they didn't
>think they'd get much out of Bobby Fish post-UE, but Tyler
>Rust JUST joined a new faction and Leon Ruff had one of the
>best feel good moments of the last year. They don't affect the
>bottom line so much that you gotta throw them away.

We mentioned this before but it is coming up again: Vince is about to meddle in NXT and turn it back into a full-on developmental. And the rumored idea is ‘we are trying to build to the next set of main eventers’. Aka they want bigger/more attractive folks who can pass a Vince test. Aka little folks and fat dudes are toast unless they can really do something abnormally well other than rassle.

the full Flair-Eaton match he talks about from the Sunday Main Event show, with Lance Russell on commentary:

https://youtu.be/4bmpzIyRuUE

the 2-out-of-3 falls rematch was from Clash XV of the mood strikes you

i got to see the Midnights with Cornette in person one time when i was 5 years old. my dad and i sat front row at Cobo Arena in Detroit for a JCP show in 1988. i dont remember much about most of the individual matches, but i do remember Cornette trying to heel on my dad when the Midnights came out. even as a kid when i fully believed everything was real, the Midnights were so good that i could only hate them so much, and i loved the way Cornette would do his promo and fluidly transition into presenting them for their match. when the orig Midnights showed up with Paul E i remember being happy i finally had a reason to cheer for them. Bobby got a lot more heat with me as a Dangeroud Alliance member, but even then i ended up feelong sorry for him, getting his arm smashed in War Games by that idiot Zbyszko. at that same JCP show, ol Larry also got in my dad's face to show his disapproval of being called "Larry Nabisco". i remember that clear as day. anyways...

also saw Bobby as part of the Blue Bloods at Halloween Havoc 95 (THE YETAYYY), a gimmick i personally found incredibly entertaining as a 12 year old. those vignettes are still among my all time favorites in 30+ years of being a wrestling fan

he gave me a lot of entertainment in my life, and it was nice this week to see how highly his peers regarded him.

I gotta imagine Cornette had difficulty holding it together (if so, I sure wouldn’t blame him)

I always liked the Eaton/Flair match at Clash. I felt it got a little rushed, mostly because it was a packed card with lots of matches. But I was happy to see Eaton get a shot.

Also, am I to understand that you were there, in person, when Hogan threw Paul Wight off the top of Cobo Hall? And then got to witness the Yet-Tay dry hump Hogan? You lucky MF.

>I gotta imagine Cornette had difficulty holding it together
>(if so, I sure wouldn’t blame him)

He does. I teared up at the end myself tbh.

>I always liked the Eaton/Flair match at Clash. I felt it got a
>little rushed, mostly because it was a packed card with lots
>of matches. But I was happy to see Eaton get a shot.

Same here, and Cornette gives great background on both of the matches and how they were received in and out of the company. Letting Bobby have a fall at Clash is the perfect illustration of what Flair thought of him.

>Also, am I to understand that you were there, in person, when
>Hogan threw Paul Wight off the top of Cobo Hall? And then got
>to witness the Yet-Tay dry hump Hogan? You lucky MF.

That is correct. This was peak Hogan backlash and people were NOT enjoying it. This was also Flair turning on Sting and bringing Pillman into the Horsemen, which to me at 12 years old was the true emotional crescendo of the night. Watching this back shows just how badly Hogan needed the nWo. People were done with him and he didn't know how to do anything other than what hed always done.

>>I gotta imagine Cornette had difficulty holding it together
>>(if so, I sure wouldn’t blame him)
>
>He does. I teared up at the end myself tbh.
>
>>I always liked the Eaton/Flair match at Clash. I felt it got
>a
>>little rushed, mostly because it was a packed card with lots
>>of matches. But I was happy to see Eaton get a shot.
>
>Same here, and Cornette gives great background on both of the
>matches and how they were received in and out of the company.
>Letting Bobby have a fall at Clash is the perfect illustration
>of what Flair thought of him.
>
>>Also, am I to understand that you were there, in person,
>when
>>Hogan threw Paul Wight off the top of Cobo Hall? And then
>got
>>to witness the Yet-Tay dry hump Hogan? You lucky MF.
>
>That is correct. This was peak Hogan backlash and people were
>NOT enjoying it. This was also Flair turning on Sting and
>bringing Pillman into the Horsemen, which to me at 12 years
>old was the true emotional crescendo of the night. Watching
>this back shows just how badly Hogan needed the nWo. People
>were done with him and he didn't know how to do anything other
>than what hed always done.

Hulk's heel turn was huge, wasn't it? Sometimes, it is tough to understate how done lots of folks were with Hulk. I remember being notably peeved when he basically killed Flair when he showed up in WCW. Then he pretty much did the same with Vader and others and I was over it. And Dungeon of Doom? Even then it was obvious that they were gonna get propped up then jobbed out. I got tied up with high school senior shit/summer before college shit and basically quit watching. I turned the TV on in August just to see if they'd ever revealed the other dude with Hall and Nash, saw Hulk Hogan in all black and knew very quickly that the shit was on! I'm so glad I got to see that period of rasslin before I started being online a lot. Seeing Stunning Steve turn into Stone Cold was another weirdly satisfying set of moments.

and jobbing out Flair as soon as he showed up was, in retrospect, the first shot fired in what honestly seemed like a war against their own core fanbase

I was there too!!

id been over Hogan for a loooooong time

well before he showed up to my beloved sports based TBS wrestling. i remember being disgusted when the bret-yokozuna thing happened at WrestleMania, and i was already in a bad mood that day finding out Jim Ross was no longer on TBS.

my dad and i were so befuddled at the whole Cobo roof thing, and everyone around us thought it was funny that the Giant was bone dry despite "falling into the river".

but we went for the Flair/Sting angle. every time Flair said he was reformed i wanted to believe him soooooo badly. our first ever PPV we ordered was Bash 89 when Sting helped Flair brawl with Muta and Funk at the end, and i spent the next 10 years chasing that high and Sting spent the next 10 years falling for the okey doke.

and Today i am pissed that I cut the sleeves off of my event shirt. It looks so stupid now!